7/8/26 - 2154: Are You Two Feet In? Living with a Kingdom Mindset

Jim: This is iWork4Him.

Martha: Where faith meets work and believers unleash their calling.

Jim: Jesus talked more about the kingdom than he did about the church. Why? It must have been important, because even if the Lord's Prayer didn't mention the church, but it did mention the kingdom. But why doesn't the church talk about the kingdom very often, or even at all? If it was so important to Jesus, then it should definitely be important to us.

But what does this have to do with our work? I think everything, and you'll see after our conversation today with author, speaker, counselor Jessica Stone. Jessica, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Jessica Stone: Thanks for having me. It's so good to see you both again.

Jim: Yeah, it is good to see us, isn't it? I imagine it is. It's probably just such a joy for all of you. Oh, boy. It is. So in rare form as we record this afternoon.

Martha: Fair warning to all the listeners today. (laughter)

Jim: Okay. Jess, we found a chapter, Martha found a chapter that you recently wrote in a book published called The Power of Yes. Since we've connected over the years, we had to reconnect over this chapter entitled Kingdom Living. Why the title, and why the topic?

Jessica Stone: Yeah. I've been a professional counselor for 26 years, and the majority of that time I was primarily seeing Christians. I would say after the first couple years, people got to know that I was the Christian counselor at the hospital that I was working at. And so my clientele was probably 99% self-proclaimed Christian believers.

And what I saw is that they had the exact same issues as the rest of the world. And so I went to the Lord one day and I just said, "What are we missing? If we are called to be salt and light to the rest of the world why do we look just as sick and miserable? And that, that just doesn't reflect who you are, Jesus."

And so my mission became to teach people how to live in the kingdom, because when I read scripture, that was the practical teaching of Jesus, is think like this, love like this, behave like this, right? And it was so much more than a behavioral modification program, 'cause that's what counseling does, right? Is we try and teach people to think and behave differently. But God was in the business of transformation, a brand-new abundant life, and that's what I wanted to see in my clients.

Martha: That's so powerful. So then you took that, and for this book that I - So I'm just gonna back up just a little bit.

Jessica Stone: You have to tell it.

Martha: Met a mutual person. I LinkedIn connected with-

Jim: As opposed to an unmutual person? (chuckles)

Martha: Okay, somebody that we now know is a mutual friend. We both know him. All right. But so I met a woman, looked at her LinkedIn, saw that we went to same colleges, had similar geography in our history, and asked her more about it. She's "Oh, I'd like to give you a copy of the book I'm in. I have a chapter in it." And as I'm reading the whole book, then I run across Jessica's chapter. So I had no idea. It was just so great how God weaves stories together and all of that.

So in this book that was a compilation of a bunch of women who essentially are telling their story of a yes that they gave to God, why did you decide to communicate then about kingdom in that chapter?

Jessica Stone: It's really who I am. It's what I live and breathe. So it's not just counseling, it's how I approach life. Because once the Holy Spirit opened that key up to me I just couldn't live any other way. So it's my passion to teach people that when we say yes to Jesus, it's not just about salvation, that it truly is a way of life. We're not just waiting someday to go to heaven, but we're bringing heaven to Earth in the here and now. And that's kingdom living. We need to be taught that.

Martha: We do. And so let's compare that. Tell us about the differences between living in the kingdom way versus the world's way.

Jessica Stone: Yeah, I think the simplest way to put it is in the world it's about self: self-protection, self-preservation, self-gratification. Even in the counseling world, everything is self, right? Self-reflection, self-affirmation, self-care. In the kingdom, we give up self, and we get in exchange eternal life, power, authority, supernatural gifts. So it's ... Yeah.

And then it becomes other focused. Instead of focusing on ourself, we're really capable, we have the capacity to love others, serve others and really make our life about bringing the kingdom to the rest of the world.

Jim: And we've seen this in some people of notoriety in the kingdom. Mother Teresa was one of those people. She was infamous and she lived in one of the poorest spots on the planet. And we've also seen this at other places in the kingdom, and in our own country. But we do see this dichotomy where some people are doing that, "I'm gonna live for others," and some people are going, "I'm gonna live for self but still call myself a follower of Jesus," which, that's an oxymoron.

You can't live for yourself and follow Jesus, because by following Jesus you inherently can't live for self. So Jessica, what are some of those behaviors that are typical of someone living with a kingdom mindset?

Jessica Stone: Probably the first one is others-focused, right?

Jim: And what does that look like? What's that behavior look like? 'Cause I could say I'm others-focused. I interview people all the time. I'm focused on others. But what does it really mean?

Jessica Stone: It means that you are healthy enough, like you, you know who you are in Christ, and you accept all of the peace, the love, the joy, the fruits of the spirit so that you can focus on others in an authentic way.

So you walk into work, and you have so much peace and joy that you notice someone else is feeling down, that you can be that for them without having to worry about, "But I'm tired, and I'm stressed." And, it's just a totally different way that we show up, and people see it. They will take notice and go, "Wow, you're just different."

And it's so much more than just being in a good mood, right? We just don't show up and go, "Oh, yay. Praise Jesus." But it's authentically "I have enough capacity to love you, to encourage you, to see that there's conflict in relationships and offer solutions for those things."

Martha: It's so good. And I love this conversation because most people listening have heard references to kingdom on Earth and to thy kingdom come, all of the things, but yet really not paying attention to what God really wants for us to have here on Earth. And so I love that we're gonna keep diving deeper into this.

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Jim: Jessica, regarding your focus on the kingdom, some would call you a pioneer woman, some call you a healer, and others probably call you crazy. What is it that causes them to react like this, sometimes vitriolic even?

Jessica Stone: When you think of a pioneer, the easiest image is the people who established our country, right? And so it's about taking a road no one's been down before. You're creating the road. You don't know where it's going. You don't know if you'll be successful when you get there.

And so my journey with the kingdom was very much like that. I just knew that there was something that the Lord had put before me, that there was a better life for the church. There was an abundant life. There was more healing. There was more freedom. And I was willing to sacrifice and go there, even if I didn't know what it looked like or how it would turn out.

And so just like the pioneers, I had plenty of times where I wanted to turn back. I just wanted to settle where I was. Like, "This is it. This is good enough. I've already carved out new ground." I definitely needed forgiveness from those that I worked with because I'm like, "I'm trying something new here, so you're coming with me whether you like it or not if you're one of my clients."

And yeah, it was exciting, it was disappointing. It's been quite the journey. But through it all, what happens with a pioneer is people are inspired by that, and they do wanna come along for the journey, and they have encountered greater healing, greater prosperity because of it.

Jim: I think we probably should dig a little deeper there for a minute because you're saying that if I'm truly gonna follow Jesus, I'm just gonna try to reiterate this in Jim language. If I'm gonna follow Jesus, then everything about me should be changing, and everyone around me should be benefiting from my faith whether they believe in Jesus or not. That's the kingdom.

Jessica Stone: Yes.

Jim: And that my way of living should display the miraculous. It should display the unexplainable, certainly my behavior, my actions, the things that happen because of my behavior and my actions.

Why is it when somebody says they're gonna follow Jesus- that this stuff sounds so extraordinary instead of I read in the Gospels that Jesus did all these extraordinary things, and Jesus said we could do the same things or even greater things than him? Why is it that this kind of stuff surprises the typical Sunday morning churchgoer?

Jessica Stone: Jim, this has been happening since the beginning of time. So it's very similar to what Paul said to the early churches. You have fallen into traditions and doctrines. You've made up your own doctrines of faith, and we can say that they've been co-mingled with the gospel or with the ways of Jesus, but they're really pretty worldly.

So my tagline is, are you one foot in the world and one foot in the kingdom, or are you two feet in? And it's gonna be very evident in how you think, how you speak, and absolutely how people observe when you show up. There's just something radical about you versus, "Oh, yeah, I know you're a Christian, but you kinda act and talk and behave like me. You get stressed out like me. You get sick like me. There's really not that amazing, significant difference."

Martha: I was thinking to what you were saying about being a pioneer, and I recently read a book where, you know early on in our country, people were living in what seemed to be established cities and were getting indoor plumbing and getting all of these things, yet there were so many people that still wanted to go west, right?

They wanted to leave the comforts of that established city, and they got pushback from their family. Why would you want to leave this wonderful environment to go explore something new? And I kinda see that as this tension point of we, but this seems right, and this seems comfortable. And maybe going into the uncomfortable for the sake of Jesus Christ, is not on a lot of people's bucket list, but it should be, because what you're saying is that the destination is worth it.

Jessica Stone: It is.

Martha: So- Yeah ... Jesus came to set us free so that we could flourish, and what do you think that flourishing in the kingdom on Earth here and now looks like?

Jessica Stone: It means that we are healthier, stronger mentally and emotionally, and that's evident. It means that we have thriving relationships, our marriages, our work relationships, our relationships with our children. It really means that we're walking in divine health. If Jesus says that you are a new creation why are we not seeing that? Why is that not manifesting?

So those are the things that I have passion for and go after, is this is our inheritance, and the only reason we're not walking in it is because of that lack of knowledge, lack of training to set our mind on the things above and not operate in what seems to be safe, what seems to be comfortable. Because the exchange, it's supernatural. It's so much better. But it does take training, and it does take trust.

Jim: We were listening to a speaker, oh, about two months ago at an event - we were at for the US Christian Chamber of Commerce. And he had... It was a business guy and he was talking to another business guy, and he says, "Listen, I'm gonna go all in on your kingdom business idea, but just tell me, I'll say yes as long as you can promise me it won't cost me anything." And the other guy says, "That's not the offer." But that's what Jesus has said, "Hey, you give me your life, I'll give you my life. It will cost you everything-

Jessica Stone: Everything ...

Jim: but I will give you everything you need in order to live." So let's talk about that because so many people who become followers of Jesus have gotten involved in things they don't even know.

Most of the church in America never talks about curses, demonic strongholds, needing deliverance. They just ignore any of that supernatural stuff because it's inconvenient, it's uncomfortable. So you bring up in your article that kingdom living involves breaking curses, and breaking strongholds, and bringing deliverance.

Talk to us about that.

Jessica Stone: Yes. As a counselor, that's something you can't ignore, even doctors will say that if you have fallen to an addiction, it probably runs in your generational line, right? And so from the moment that you are conceived, even secular psychology can prove this now, that in utero babies start to hardwire.

So if the mom is anxious, they have a more anxious temperament. If the environment is very let's say abusive, they come out feeling very insecure. And so that's happening our whole childhood, our whole life, those things. And so then we have a tendency to believe the lies that the enemy would propose to us, and of course they fit with those experiences.

And so the more we experience something that's scary, that we don't understand, those create strongholds because we agree with it and we go, "Yeah, that really is scary," and, "Yeah, I really do get rejected by everyone, I ever meet." And it's through that hardwiring process as a child and a young person that we have to step into our kingdom identity and biblical truth, and that's what I train people on all the time, is this is, like I said earlier, when we give our life to Christ, our spirit is made perfect in a second, in a moment, period, done, right?

But now we need to make sure our mind, our emotions, and even our instinct come into the, into alignment and into agreement with what that truth is.

Jim: It takes that Roman 12:2 stuff. We have to change the way we think.

Jessica Stone: Exactly.

Jim: Which that is a remarkable transformation, and it is miraculous, and it is a rewiring of our mind which takes the rest of our lives.

Jessica Stone: It does, yep.

Jim: There's the encouragement for everybody.

Martha: I wanna make sure that by the end of the show, though, we talk about next steps for people because I believe that people are leaning in right now and being, "Okay, what do I do about this? How do I break those strongholds? How do I you know Get unleashed from that?"

But I wanna pause right here for just a second first, because what Jessica, what you are saying is exactly why this podcast exists. We believe that our work is not separate from our faith, and it's one of the primary places that God has put each and every one of us.

And stories like this one are proof of that, and we make this show so that more people can hear these stories and be encouraged and challenged in their own faith walk. So if you want to keep us, keep this going and you, you can become a monthly supporter for as little as $5 a month, you can just go to iwork4him.com/donate.

We'll say it right again at the end of the show and have that also in the show notes.

Jim: And don't forget our summer picnic initiative. We're encouraging everybody in America that's listening to this podcast to have their neighbors over for a picnic. Have a block party, and send us a picture to jim@iwork4him.com.

That's Jim at I Work, the number four, him.com. For a competition and a special, one special winner will get an end of the summer prize. We're trying to transform our country, and yes, we're trying to do it at work. Maybe you should invite all your workmates over for a picnic, but that doesn't take away the responsibility to love on our neighbors in our own neighborhood.

Have them over for a potluck picnic, send us a picture, and do what the Lord asks us to do, which is love your neighbors and love your enemies, and just let's transform this country. And we gotta do it by knowing and loving on our neighbors!

Martha: We're excited about that, Jim.

Jim: We are excited.

Martha: So yeah it's fun.

So Jessica, thank you for getting us this far even in the conversation because for a lot of people it's thinking differently, just like we said, changing the way we think as it says in scripture. So why is it a revolution in the church to bring about kingdom living if it's what Jesus actually taught us in the first place? Why is it such a revolutionary idea?

Jessica Stone: I think it comes back to this place of being double-minded. And the more technology, the more information, social media, we are just inundated with the world. So even as Christian believers we will read our Bible, we'll pray, we'll get together for fellowship with other believers, but how does that compete with what we're hearing and being saturated with day in and day out?

And so it's just so easy to go back to what I say is a worldly life with a little Jesus sprinkled on it versus are you living from the kingdom? Are you walking in that authority? Are you being Christ to everyone that you meet? It's tough to stay two feet in.

Jim: Two feet in. Not two feet, but both feet in.

Okay, all right, got it. (laughter)

Jessica Stone: Both feet in.

Jim: Okay. All right. So let's, this is a podcast, a broadcast focused on living out our faith in our work. Yes. We've talked about kingdom living. We now understand it's a different way of doing it. It's what Jesus taught us to do, and if you ever wanna... That manual, Matthew 5 through 7 really is a lot of that. Okay. So what does kingdom living look like at work?

Jessica Stone: A couple different things. One, we're visionaries, we're creatives, because we have a supernatural tap into Heaven, and so we're coming up with ideas and solutions that are otherworldly, or at least we should be, right? So it's going beyond what the human mind knows.

That's 1 Corinthians 2:10, what does a man know but his own mind? But we have been given the mind of Christ. So how much more creative, how many more ideas should we be having? And then second is that we are, should be, relationship experts because Jesus set the standard. So we should be bringing harmony and reconciliation and just relationship ideas, leadership, all of those types of things. We should be leading the way in that area because we have the example of Christ.

Martha: We were just at a conference this last week and we talked, we really dove into the idea of creativity because for most of us, we think either we're not creative or that's just the arts. And in fact, in our workplace, it can be translated in things like how really well that spreadsheet that you created tabulates all of the things that you need to know. It takes creativity to do that, yes.

And so translating that into other aspects of our life are so critical because it's really easy, as soon as I hear creative, to be like, ... I love my crafty side, or whatever, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about however God has gifted you to live in that place of creativity, and that He has great ideas for that if we just ask Him.

"God, I don't have the answer, but I know that you do." And so I hope our listeners are hearing that because it it is incredibly important how God gifted each one of us for the work that we do. And I am not - I don't have the abilities you have as a counselor and a guide and, but I have different ones. God gave me a different role to play.

And so each of the, each person listening, I just want you to look at yourself and say, "Okay, how can that live out in my work, and what is God asking me to do?" 'Cause I think that's really how we all grow, is by looking at how we can apply it in our own lives.

Jessica Stone: Yes. And something really important you said is we don't have to rely on our gifts, talents, or abilities. We're talking about divine power, divine strategies, heavenly solutions. So that's what really makes living in the kingdom different, is we're not reliant on what we went to school for or what our natural bents might be.

Jim: That's good, 'cause when I went to school they taught me how to work on a mainframe computer with no screen. That really applies a lot today. (laughter) But it... I know, it's just great. But it is unfortunate that 90- I bet the number is in the high 90 percentage of believers who own businesses never stop to think, "Wow, I'm facing a serious issue here. I wonder what God's solution is for this, because I don't have one."

Jessica Stone: Yes.

Jim: And God wants to give us those. He wants to be our number one resource, but He also wants us to ask. And He demonstrated that with Joshua in the Battle of Ai. Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho. It went really well. They went on to go on to the next town, which was Ai. Nobody asked any questions. They just went ahead and did it, and they got slaughtered.

Jessica Stone: Yep.

Jim: God wants us to be involved in those. He wants to be involved in the intimate details of what we do. Jessica, is there an attitude that bubbles to the top in kingdom living?

Jessica Stone: Yeah, there's a couple different attitudes, but I think the biggest one is what we just talked about, is it's not relying on ourself, but it's tapping into who we are in Christ.

Over and over, we have to set our mind on the things above. We have to renew our mind, and we come into this place of how do I receive these things so that I can transform the world around me, rather than staying in this place of striving and stress? And that's where I saw most of my clients who are Christians is that they were stuck in this place of " yeah, I'll pray about that later, but right now, I'm depressed. I have all of these work stress. I have financial problems."

And we can just no longer live in that place of separation. The attitude that I see when I see someone truly living a kingdom life is confidence in the Lord, confidence in their calling. It's a holy confidence, not of themself, but of what God is doing through them. And then abundance that there's no lack, there's no fear of not having enough. And then the last one is hope for the future. We are the hope bringers. We know what awaits us so that even when things are hard, like Jesus, we set the joy before us, and suffering and pain is all worth it. And it's a totally different attitude than the world has.

Martha: So Jessica, for the listeners that are going, "Okay, I wanna learn more about this. I wanna understand more," is there a way they, can they reach out to you? Is there a resource? What would you suggest as the next thing that they could do?

Jessica Stone: I did create a masterclass. So if you go to my website, kingdommindset.global, there's a 16-video self-guided masterclass that will get you started. And then for those who feel like, "Yeah I think I get this stuff, but maybe I just need a one-on-one consult," I do those as well.

Martha: Okay. I just, I would be remiss if I didn't bring that up because-

Jessica Stone: Yeah ...

Martha: that's what this is all about, is okay, God has opened my eyes and my ears and my heart to something new, and what am I gonna do about that? Yes. Obviously praying, getting in the Word, but somebody who's already a few steps ahead, has already kinda worked this out, you're a great resource, so thank you for that.

Jessica Stone: Thank you.

Jim: Jessica Stone. Dr. Jessica Stone. Thank you so much for being back on iWork4Him. Thanks for talking about kingdom living, giving us a new perspective on it. It's a great conversation. There's just so much here. We could do a whole year of podcasts talking about this. You did a 12-lesson masterclass. But thanks for being here today with us. We're so grateful.

Jessica Stone: Thank you for having me. I love you both.

Jim: And if you've been on the fence about supporting iWork4Him, this is what your $5 a month does. It keeps conversations like this going. It reaches people who have yet to learn that God wants to be a part of their work life, to shift their thinking and use that thinking in their work for God's glory. Go to iwork4him.com/donate.

You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers and our workplace, it's our mission field. But ultimately, iWork4Him.