2155: Unknown Today. Kingdom Leader Tomorrow?

Jim: This is iWork4Him.

Martha: Where faith meets work and believers unleash their calling.

Jim: A little over eight years ago, I was sitting in a room listening to a conversation about how the enemy has coordinated working with billionaires around the world to destroy freedoms, to destroy economies, to destroy human rights, and frankly, to destroy humans. Hundreds of organizations working together in lockstep, funded by a few who had an evil agenda.

Jim: And I thought to myself, and I prayed, "Lord, if there are billionaires who are funding the enemy's side, where are the kingdom billionaires funding kingdom work here on Earth? Who are they? Where are they?" And at the time, every millionaire I knew was holding tightly onto their money.

Jim: Now, I now know a few kingdom billionaires who are stewarding their wealth well. But we need a ton more of them to loosen their pockets to fund kingdom projects for this world. Art Serna says that God is gonna raise up a new class of billionaires who will steward the wealth well for the kingdom of God right here on Earth. His book, The Unknowns Rising: When God Unleashes the New Billionaire Class, is a riveting read. Are you one of those God will choose to unleash billions for you to steward?

Jim: Art Serna, welcome to iWork4Him.

Art Serna: Jim, Martha, pleasure to be here. I'm tingling right now, actually, your intro. It's a consequential time, and I'm glad to be here with you.

Jim: I don't know that anybody's ever said my intros were tingling, but that's very good, and I appreciate that.

Art Serna: There you go. There you go.

Martha: You know that the message of your book and what God has laid on your heart really resonates with us based on what God had been showing us, and that is gonna really drive the conversation today.

Jim: Art, before we start talking about The Unknown Rising, your book, we still want, we wanna know, we wanna start with your Jesus story. Tell us your Jesus story.

Art Serna: Yeah, so I, I grew up between two worlds, Mexico and the United States. Was born in Texas, but spent the first years in Mexico growing up in a Catholic home.

Art Serna: There was a reverence for God, but I hadn't met him, and it wasn't until my parents bought their first home in South Texas, McAllen, for those of your listeners who may be familiar with that area, the Rio Grande Valley. It's actually not a valley. It's super flat, but that's what they call it. But my twin brother became, in high school, joined the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Art Serna: And they started meeting in our home in our living room, and we did everything. We were super close. We were womb mates, and roommates at the time. And as we grew, I just started attending these Bible studies, and it just very much, like in the Book of Acts where Evangelist Philip comes and reveals who Christ is through the Book of Isaiah, there- it gripped my heart, and I knelt down in one of those meetings in the living room and I say " I want to be saved."

Art Serna: And from that moment on the Lord called me into ministry. It wasn't just salvation. I knew he had a calling on my life, and through time, he began to give me a concept of every sphere of society belongs to him, and he is using the leaven of the kingdom to transform it, and that changed the rest of my life going forward.

Art Serna: It messed me up for the rest of my life, Jim and Martha- Praise God. There you go ... and I'm delighted in that story, yes.

Jim: Did he mess you up, or did it straighten you up? Let's just be honest. It didn't turn your rights upside down. It turned your right side up, correct?

Art Serna: Correct. Absolutely. It's the upside down kingdom, and I'm glad to be a part of it.

Jim: No, it's not. It's a right side up kingdom. Let's, Art, let's stop for a second. It's the right side up kingdom. We've been living in the upside down kingdom. Jesus turns everything the right way up. Okay, just let... Do we have this clear now? (chuckling)

Art Serna: And I wanna herald that message, yeah. The old is new. The new is better.

Jim: That's right.

Martha: But it is so fun to have this conversation even just in this intro time because people get very confused, right? Like if God wrecks you know- ... is that negative? Is that positive? Is it... it looks different than what the world would expect, and it doesn't mean it's easy. Doesn't mean it's without its challenges, but it is the right trajectory, and so that's really the conversation.

Jim: And the basis of it goes back to... Sorry, I want... Before you go to your next question- is that when Adam and Eve were in the garden, that was right side up. That was the things the way they were supposed to be. Physical, mental, and spiritual flourishing. Then it got turned upside down because they decided to do it their own way, and Jesus came to turn everything right side back up again.

Art Serna: And Jim, I wanna say, as we get into the conversation, that so much of this, institutional and organization like cities weren't a thing yet in the Garden. And sometimes we allow institutions, whether it's religious institutions and others, to give us a lens of how we see the kingdom. And I think what God is doing is changing the lens in how we see life. To free us from somebody else giving us the 3D glasses so we can see life and the cosmos through His eyes, 100%.

Martha: So good. Okay, so I wanna hear the backstory behind writing your book, The Unknowns Rising. James-

Jim: Right here, showing it right here on YouTube in case you're watching the video.

Martha: What's the backstory behind how this came about?

Art Serna: I'd never intended to write a book about billionaires. I was in my own Abrahamic journey, moving from the Texas area to the Mid- West, and who knew? But God had said, "I need to change your altitude, and to get your promise of who you are to become, you need to move upward." So here I am in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's right after COVID.

Jim: Wait a minute. You're a cheesehead? Oh, this all-

Art Serna: I am a Cheesehead now.

Jim: This interview is over. (laughter)

Art Serna: No, come on.

Jim: We're done right here.

Art Serna: Are you a Bears fan? Are you a Bears fan?

Jim: I grew up in Minnesota. They don't even talk to people in Wisconsin. That was a mistake. How did I not see that you were from Milwaukee? Oh, okay. Okay, I'm just kidding.

Art Serna: We should have a good season this year. We shall see.

Jim: It's good.

Art Serna: But,

Jim: I gave up on the Vikings in 1999.

Art Serna: So yeah, so you know, I moved to Milwaukee. It was right after COVID. I wanted to understand God's plan for what is going on during this time, Lord. And there was a time of prayer and fasting, and I came to a gathering of believers near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and we were seeking God. It was called the Convocation. And I had the most profound prophetic experience to date at that time.

Art Serna: Where it's very much in a Daniel type of encounter where you're awake and you're seeing this vision before you, right? And God was basically letting me know that the history was going to be redefined and changed and in powerful ways. And this was before AI was even came on the scene in a major way.

Art Serna: That would've been in 2022. This was October 2020. And I saw a vision of a revelation of a new leadership class that was gonna emerge. I saw the Forbes billionaire list changing in real time in a quick succession, and new names that nobody would understand were making it on that list, alongside others that people would be familiar with.

Art Serna: And there was almost this echo in the Spirit about who are these people, and why are they here? It's very much like David coming on the scene, like who is this kid? And why, why is he even here? What is he trying to do? But that God would redefine the future of nations from what was gonna emerge.

Art Serna: And that was what, for me, became the message that he said, "You must share this message." So one, very much like Samuel finding David, they become affirmed, you can find them, and they realize that God has a plan for their life.

Jim: And we're gonna dig a lot deeper. Now go ahead.

Martha: Yeah, so I just ... So then as God revealed that to you, did you know right away that it needed to be a book? Or what did you really feel like he was, you were supposed to do with that information or that message?

Art Serna: Yeah. Honestly, I did not know that it was supposed to be a book. Actually, it was very much like Isaiah. I am a man of unclean lips. Like, why are you giving me this revelation? I am undone. And I actually didn't know what to do with it, to be honest.

Art Serna: I reflected on it, shared it with leadership in my church. And then just very much like Mary did, I reflected on those things in my heart for a number of years until God through time began to reveal and beckon me to say, "You must do this. You must put this out, and you must reflect on how it shapes your life as well."

Art Serna: So I, that took a number of years and the Lord doing his work in my heart. But it was ultimately me understanding that it was gonna be a revolution of creative intention and invention coming into the earth that God was gonna activate that and that was going to lead into a countless harvest over the nations. And it wasn't really a question about who's gonna become wealthy. It was about who, who can heaven trust with unprecedented influence during this time?

Jim: I love that. We're gonna get deeper into that. Martha?

Martha: So we just wanna take a moment here to talk about the fact that we all use our phones and our computers for pretty much everything we do, work, communication, podcasts, ministry, whatever it might be, but one virus or an online threat can stop all of that in an instant.

Martha: That's why iWork4Him trusts SaferNet for virus protection, VPN, and web filters on all of our devices. Protect your digital life so you can stay focused on your God-given work. Visit safernet.com and tell them iWork4Him sent you.

Jim: All right. So Art, obviously the reason I said, "Yes, let's have this conversation," is I read your book and I heard your heart, that this isn't a health and wealth conversation, "Hey, God wants you to be wealthy so you could have a big house and a big boat or maybe a cabin in the mountains and a house by the beach."

Jim: That this is about, like you just said right before the break, a harvest. Because right now they say - who "they" is I'm not really sure - that a quarter of the planet are following Jesus, and more than half of the planet ... No, and the rest of them are either following Buddha, the 1,100 gods of Hinduism, or Islam in simplistic terms.

Jim: And and there's a need for Jesus to impact the rest of the world. In fact, we're actually, you'll hear me talk about it in a second, but we're actually encouraging all of our listeners to learn to love on their neighbors. Actually have them over for a picnic this summer. Art, is there a process, you're saying that God has new billionaires in the waiting. What's the process for preparing somebody to steward billions? Because we're not talking about... we're gonna get into this. What's the process for for stewarding billions for the Lord?

Art Serna: I think scripture gives us a beautiful picture. When you look at Psalm 72, it's understood as a prayer over Solomon's reign, right? And at its start it speaks to, to not just, before it starts talking about prosperity, abundance, and the kingly reign of Solomon, it starts with these words. I want to read it for your audience. It says, "Give the king your judgments, O God, and your righteousness to the king's son."

Art Serna: And I think for me, that's profound. It is said of Solomon that he was perhaps the wealthiest person to be known at that time. We might call him a trillionaire in today's time. And God, that Psalm 72 uses this kingdom terminology I call it throne level lyrics, right?

Art Serna: To reveal that it was about Solomon's heart from the very beginning. And it develops the characteristics of the wealthiest man to become the trillionaire. It talks about justice and it talks about righteousness, which is the foundation of God's throne. And so Jim, I think God is a master in how to prepare His billionaire class by focusing first of all at the heart.

Art Serna: It's a heart level issue, it's a worship issue, so that you don't have any idols. So I think that's how God prepares them. I would ask people to look at Psalm 72 for realizing that wealth at this level and influence, it's really a byproduct of worship.

Martha: You know what, I wanna take a minute and just back up for a second because it would, might be very easy for the listeners to kinda tune out because "you're not talking about me because I'm not a millionaire or a billionaire."

Martha: So before we even dig into this any further- ... why should people be listening to this message? And what should they be learning from it? Because, just what I said, "oh, that's not gonna be me."

Art Serna: At the book launch when I first had it, a great company of believers that came to that, I told people "This isn't, like, how to become a billionaire 101 book." That is not why I wrote it. I said, "Now, if God has called you to be a billionaire and you read this book, it's gonna stir that in you. There's no way for it not to 'cause the Holy Spirit wrote this book." But I, I believe, Martha, that it is really written to the hungry and the seekers of truth who wanna understand, "What is my- Who am I in the midst of a move of God in a generation that would change the future of nations?"

Art Serna: So if that is people's hearts, then I think they should feel like it's about you.

Martha: Okay.

Art Serna: Because you're either going to be one, or you're going to be influenced or impacted by one, or you're going to collaborate with one with what God is doing. Very much like the... I think a lot about as I processed this time we were gonna have, a lot about the life of David because I wrote this book for the people that nobody knows yet.

Art Serna: David was prepared in the fringes of a Goliath battle that had to be fought in his generation, and doing so would further God's plan over the nations in his day. And it's said of him that he served God's purpose for his generation. And I feel God is doing the same thing today.

Jim: And I think it's so important also for everybody listening to understand that we have to be faithful with little before God will ever trust us to be faithful with much.

Jim: So if he's giving you 100 bucks, how you handling it? If he's giving you 1,000 bucks, how you handling it? That's the standard that God has. You need to be faithful with little. If I walked up to your car, I'm a car guy, and I look at your car, am I gonna be able to tell that you're a good steward or not?

Jim: Because if your car doesn't reflect your stewardship, why would God give you any more? If your house doesn't reflect your stewardship, why would God give you any more? And I think, Art, we need to go into this, we need to go dig a little deeper. Why do you think that the church does such a terrible job of training up current Jesus-following millionaires and billionaires to be stewards and not owners? To be kingdom-focused instead of power-focused?

Art Serna: Yeah. I think many times we believe, or the church doesn't think big enough, right? It has a church paradigm but not a kingdom paradigm. And I believe God is disrupting that. And so there's sons and daughters in His kingdom that, they lack affirmation, right? Because the slots we have in the traditional church institution program is not for them, right? They're sitting in pews. They're sitting in... david was shepherding sheep on his own, unknown in that sense, until God brought him into the battlefield.

Art Serna: I don't think people are - people meaning those that are leading the traditional church paradigm - have the Davids in mind, where God wanted to establish His reign through a Davidic reign that will lead to Jesus. And I think that's why we do such a poor job. We're not using the same design parameters of the kingdom that the Lord desires, is one way I would frame it.

Martha: So we're so used to looking around and seeing who's an up-and-coming leader, who's showing that they've done well or whatever, and that they're gonna be elevated to something else, instead of who is God preparing that we don't even know about.

Martha: And so I wanted to, I wanna hear about that. What is the problem with the current class of wealthy that you believe that God needs to raise up a new group of wealthy?

Art Serna: Yeah, I think he's expanding the table, Martha beyond the traditional list 'cause in, at least in my vision, it wasn't like Elon Musk was being bumped out of the Forbes list. It was like there were other people at the table. At least that's the way I saw it. I think it, it aligns biblically with the the the tares and the wheat. They're together in the garden. They're mixed in.

Art Serna: But I think God is expanding the table. And God just delights in raising up unexpected people because it shows who He is. David wasn't expected. Joseph wasn't expected. Esther was not expected. Even the disciples were not expected, right? And but God just, to confound the wise He does His thing. I think God has a sense of humor, just like Jim, all right? And I think God is just amazing.

Art Serna: So but specifically for me, my book focuses a lot on multicultural, bicultural leaders, that it wasn't those that would've been brought up through old money and old systems, but it's actually in some ways they've been, like, rejected, impacted, oppressed by a current system- 'cause it wasn't built for them. And that God just has a way to take those marginalized and say, "I'm gonna do a thing," right? "I'm gonna do a thing that's gonna confound the wise, and if you were to hear it, it would make your ears tingle."

Art Serna: Maybe that's the tingling thing, Jim. It's gonna make your ears tingle if you hear it. But I see some of these leaders coming out from Latin America, Africa, India, Southeast Asia. Obviously America. I live in it and love this country and I believe God is gonna further. But in, in my vision, there was this focus on invention, creative inventions, intellectual property and technology specifically.

Art Serna: We can get into that at the point that you feel is appropriate, but I, this concept of the new billionaire class, I wasn't just talking about people with new digits into their bank account, although unequivocally the vision said that would be the case. It was more about those who can steward extraordinary influence in the earth.

Art Serna: And that can be billionaires. That can be those that would redefine healthcare, education, entire systems that are failing right now, all, even the AI, what it's gonna become, those that would oversee those systems going forward and therefore have.. It wasn't just about money. It was about mission focus and kingdom impact.

Jim: And when you look at the current swath of influencers, you've got- and there are some amazing kingdom ones. We were just talking about Nick Vujicic just the other day, who's spoken in 95 countries to millions and millions, tens of millions of people, and you got Kim Kardashian. Who do you wanna be influenced by?

Jim: Both of them worth a lot of money, but who's influencing for Christ, and who's just interested in seeing pictures of herself? It just, it's one of those things. And I wanna pause here for a second because what Art and I and Martha are talking about today is exactly why this podcast exists.

Jim: Yes, we're exploring a topic that is a little bit different than normal, but we believe that your work is not separate from your faith. It's one of the primary places God has put you, and stories like this one and conversations like this one are proof of that. We make this show so that more people can hear those stories because we need to be thinking outside of the box.

Jim: The kingdom is not just the ideas that exist on the Earth. They exist in the blueprint room of Heaven. If you wanna keep iWork4Him going, you could become a monthly supporter for as little as $5 a month. That's iwork4him.com/donate, and we'll say it again at the end and have it in the show notes as well. That's iwork4him.com/donate.

Martha: And listeners, I also wanna take a moment to remind you of our summer picnic initiative. Have a block party and send us a picture to jim@iwork4him.com, and if you want some inspiration or encouragement, you can visit the webpage link that we'll have in the show notes. Remember, one special winner is going to be selected at the end of the summer to get a prize.

Jim: And remember, Jesus told us not only love your, don't just love the people that you're easy to - love your neighbors and love your enemies. And pray for those that persecute you. We need to start loving our neighbors, and this is gonna start right here on the iWork4Him audience. All right, so Art, where does AI fit into all of this?

Jim: Because AI tools are developing. It's incredible. A project we were working on in '24 is gonna be revolutionized. Right here on iWork4Him, our tapestry project could be revolutionized by AI, and also cut our costs too down 10% of what it was. How does AI fit into this whole billionaire class thing you're talking about?

Art Serna: Yeah, in, in this process of writing the book, God has led me by His Spirit to focus on the moment that Moses is sent to liberate a nation, and or birth a nation, right? And he had a technology in his hand at that time that God upgraded. His staff was a tool that he used in the shepherding - that's where he was. That's where God found him.

Art Serna: But God actually, when He interacts in the burning bush experience with Moses, He actually asked him to look at what's on his hand. When Moses was like, "I actually don't think they're gonna believe me." He said, "What's in your hand?" He said, "It's a staff," right? And God said take it and throw it." And out, He, God turned that tool of, economic tool in his day, into this sign of His sovereignty. And through that thing, He revealed to an empire, a pagan empire in Egypt, the power of God.

Art Serna: And I, and so the role of AI, you talked about historical disruption or change in your intro, Jim. I think that when I think about technology, every major technology through history has amplified something, whether the printing press, ideas, amplified ideas, electricity, productivity. I think AI is going to amplify intelligence. But more so I believe AI in the hands of the messengers that God raises up, those that have... I think AI will be transformed beyond what it is traditionally, like all the, of the cool stuff that it does.

Art Serna: I think God desires to take artificial intelligence as a tool and transform it into a sign of His sovereignty and miraculous signs and wonders in our generation. That makes me excited about the role of AI in the hands of future Moseses.

Jim: I love that. And AI is one of those things, okay, of course, we're in that generation where I'm a little skeptical of AI. I read Revelation when I was 13. I'm like, "What's it gonna take for statues to talk?" Now we know, okay? Now we know statues can talk. They can shoot lasers, no problem.

Jim: And that, that... Everything that John wrote about can now happen. It's literally all possible today, and it's expanding every day. But AI is gonna create also some challenges. But what I love is that there's people actively within the kingdom programming AI to understand the Christian side of things, the following Jesus side of things, as well as I'm sure there's people on the other side programming them to hate Christians.

Jim: So it's a, it's an interesting thing. Art, there's such a great danger, though, in amassing great wealth. Before you get billions, usually you have millions first, and then you have tens of millions and hundreds of millions before you get to billions, typically. I don't know. And now, Elon Musk has trillions, okay?

Jim: How do we keep this cutting edge group of entrepreneurs, how do we help them to change the world and keep it kingdom-focused and flourishing-focused and not self-focused? How do we keep them focusing on human dignity serving the collective good, which is a kingdom principle, instead of buying bigger houses, bigger boats, faster cars, with fat bank accounts full of money, doing no good at all, sitting on the sidelines?

Jim: That's what we see today. How do we do that?

Art Serna: Great question. I think we refocus the biblical definition of success, and very similar to other movements, or at least, the Jesus revolution, we gotta make sure the door is open to them. We can't deny them or not affirm them. I think we gotta recognize it as kingdom people that, one, they exist, one, God is doing this.

Art Serna: And then I think we, we introduce the apostolic call of Jesus to our generation, "Come and follow me." And I think daily you have to carry your cross. And I... in me, in seeing this, there, there's a there's a commission of dying to self that is very kingdom, very biblical. And I believe that individuals... you read many historical accounts of people that have amassed incredible amounts of wealth and are empty inside and are actually worse off because they haven't found this, the pearl of great price.

Art Serna: And I think we've gotta teach a generation and tell this message about this concept of losing your life so that you may truly find it. And if they do, I think they're gonna go on to build the most transformational things that will open the harvest fields in, in multiple nations. And I say for me practically, Jim and Martha, one of the works that I get to do, I'm excited about, is with an organization called Spine Hope, and it's providing-

Jim: Called what? Hang on ... you said that really fast. Say it again.

Martha: Spine Hope?

Art Serna: Yeah. Spine Hope. And it's an organization that is providing global outreach to perform very complex spine surgeries for children that would, don't have any access to this type, and they have spine deformities that are impacting their quality of life, some really critical life-changing type of impact in their organs.

Art Serna: And we are trying to utilize these tools to accelerate the way we can find, identify them, and then prepare teams to actually adequately perform. There's millions, about 30 million children in the world that suffer from some form of scoliosis. About 3 million every year that get added, adolescents 10 to 19 years old who are impacted by this.

Art Serna: And I think this is some of the kingdom-focused work, right? We need to weep with those who weep and develop the heart of Jesus to do that. And I think the Lord is doing that. And I think the rest of my life I want to dedicate to helping find these. And writing the book Martha, you asked me this, I felt from the Lord to say, "You don't have to understand everything about it," 'cause I wanted to understand everything about it.

Art Serna: "Lord, I wanna understand it before I go and do this." And he just said, "This is a Davidic stone." And you don't have to worry about how Goliath's gonna fall. You've just gotta worry about picking up the stone and launching it. And if you launch it, I'll take care of the rest. And so I think for us, how do we find them or help them?

Art Serna: I think it's being present, telling the message. And then very much like a Samuel type, a prophetic company, we've gotta be able to affirm them in the call, and especially as they begin to grapple. Jesus said part of his job description is, "I have come to kill or destroy the works of the devil-" who kills, steals and destroys. I think the kingdom people have a similar job description with him. And as his leaders emerge, I believe that it's not gonna be easy-peasy. I think it's gonna be a battle. And it's about this burden of carrying the cross. I think they're gonna need support.

Art Serna: How to understand the scriptures, how to understand the destiny of God and their role in it. And I want to be focused on that. That includes, I, I wanna build a micro school that supports these future leaders, 'cause I believe the Lord will raise them. A K-12 school that will be Cosmos Renewed Academy as part of my thing to help find them.

Art Serna: It's very much like an Avengers of the future. (chuckles) Where you find them and prepare them. And I think that's part of my obedience in preparing for that future.

Martha: It's really discipleship in all things. God calls us to a very, ... He gives us a handbook of how to live in a way that gives him the glory and him the honor. And Jim and I, more than 25 years ago, we thought we knew everything the Bible had to say about money, and God said, "No, lean in and learn so I can prepare you for the future." And in our situation it was so that money never is the reason you say no to something that I've called you to do.

Martha: And so much like that testimony in our life, it's getting people prepared for what God's gonna do. We don't know what mantle he's gonna ask us to carry. And so all of the believers need to get discipled in what the scripture actually says and be prepared for whatever God is calling them to, whether it is a life of very little or a life of a lot that is to be st- all of it is to be stewarded well and for the kingdom. So I love that idea.

Jim: And I and let's just say some- one of you listening today is, you've really, you've been told by the Lord you're gonna be stewarding billions one day Then right now you need to surround yourself with people, first of all, somebody that's got permission, one or two people in your life that have permission to smack you with a green treated 2x4 upside the head if you be stupid.

Jim: And that they have permission to call you out. And a group of people that are prophetic, that are prayer warriors, people that that will surround you so that money never screws you up, and that it does the work that God intends so he doesn't have to take it away from you. If you ever wonder why somebody's making a billion dollars and then the next minute they're sitting on skid row, if you haven't heard that term, look it up on the internet, it's because God gave them all this money and they decided to use it for themselves.

Jim: And it, and it twisted them. That's not the intent. The intent is for you to steward it and to do incredible things. 'Cause you could turn a billion into a trillion pretty easy. Look at Elon Musk. All he does is keep investing in things. And you'd almost wonder, does Elon Musk have some kingdom principles in there that we can learn from? Probably.

Jim: So how do we take that and keep multiplying it and keep making an impact? But you gotta surround yourself with people that you give permission to them to call you out. Because if you are surrounded by people who just are yes people or are people who want your money, that is not the kind of people that are gonna help you get it done.

Jim: Art, I'll give you the last thought right there. You got a minute or less. Go ahead.

Art Serna: Yeah, God is still building in the earth. He started in the garden. He's always done that. But he does it with agents of change. He wants people like Adam and Eve, you and I, to build with him. And I think the Paul and Timothy model is the way to do that.

Art Serna: In the background you see the AI Presidential Challenge. I did a project with my daughter. She won state in Wisconsin on what she built for the foster care system. I think God is calling us to prepare the sons and daughters to emerge because the cosmos, the creation, is groaning for the revelation of the sons of God. And I'm excited to connect with fathers and mothers in the Unknowns Rising to find them. Thank you, Jim and Martha.

Jim: I think we need to maybe have your daughter on the next time to hear what she did for the foster system. 'Cause if she helped the foster system, if she helped the foster system in Wisconsin, maybe she can help the foster system in the other 50 states, 'cause it's a hot mess and it desperately needs some innovation.

Jim: Art Serna, thanks so much for being with us today.

Art Serna: Thank you.

Martha: This podcast runs on support of people who believe in conversations like this one, and you can help us reach more people for just $5 a month. That's just one cup of coffee.

Jim: Little bit less.

Martha: A small one. Go to iworkforhim.com/donate. We'll put the link in the show notes too.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers and our workplace, it's our mission field. But ultimately, iWork4Him.