5/20/26 - 2147: Hearing God Beyond Sunday

Jim: This is iWork4Him.

Martha: Where faith meets work and believers unleash their calling.

Jim: Hearing the voice of God - it's something we all want to experience, but most of us are afraid of what he might say when we hear him. But really, do you wanna know what God is thinking? His answers to your question? Does our Heavenly Father really wanna interact with us freely in our thoughts and drive our work?

Peter Lawry is a marketplace prophetic intercessor that focuses on helping business owners hear the voice of God so that they're actively listening to the real CEO of the business. But Peter also works in networking groups. Peter attends events, and often goes around the room and speaks what he's hearing God say about the people in the room. Peter and his wife, Tini, are in the studio with us today all the way from New Zealand. Now, that isn't a town in Pennsylvania. (chuckling) It's a huge island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

Tini is an international leader within the Lions Club International, and is now working on equipping the next generation of Lions leaders age 15 to 30. Both Peter and Tini are seeing God do amazing things around the world from Bangladesh to Marionville, Missouri. They saw it back home. They've experienced it in Orlando at the US Christian Chamber of Commerce event, and now seeing it in action right here in Marionville, Missouri.

Peter and Tini Lawry, welcome to iWork4Him.

Tini Lawry: Thanks.

Peter Lawry: Thank you. Lovely to be here.

Jim: Yeah. You say that now. I hope you still say that at the end. (laughter) that's the goal- ... is that you'll still be happy that you are visiting after we're done. All right, we just finished an amazing time together at the US Christian Chamber of Commerce event in Orlando, where people gathered to celebrate all that God's doing in the marketplace. Tini, what was your biggest takeaway?

Tini Lawry: My biggest takeaway was that God is not only a God for Sundays and like that. I saw there that God wants to be in every aspect of our life. So he wants to be in, in whatever we are, not just the Sunday, and also, and that includes our businesses. So he wants to be there.

Jim: Now, was that a new idea for you? Y- you, I know Peter is talking with marketplace people all the time in New Zealand. But a lot of times you're not accompanying him in those things. Here in Orla- in Orlando, we were there together, you were in the room with 700 other people. And you saw the broadness of their experience. Lots of different jobs, lots of different occupations. Was it encouraging to you to see how many of them were pursuing God in their work?

Tini Lawry: Yes, definitely. And I thought it was an eagerness to find out that they wanted to have healing for themselves so they would be able to yeah, to ascertain what their business needed. Yeah. I really found that amazing.

Martha: So Peter, for you, what was your biggest takeaway from the U.S. Christian Chamber event that we were at together?

Peter Lawry: I suppose in some respects it's the same thing, because it's very - this is something very dear to my heart, is the fact that there is no Sunday and weekday divide as far as God is concerned. What we're called to pray is, "Lord, your kingdom come on Earth as it is in Heaven," not just on Sundays.

It is right in the marketplace just where Jesus taught. So it was wonderful to hear that kind of message being reiterated and pressed home and this real sense of, yes, God is here. God wants to be doing with you in your business what you think He wants to do with you on a Sunday. Yeah. It was cool.

Martha: So the theme of the event was "Yes&". And so that was a lot of what was being spoken, but as you guys were walking around, praying, and discussing with other people, did you see a common theme arise from what they were experiencing?

Peter Lawry: I think there was a tremendous sense of togetherness. As a business conference, it was unusual, because every session started with worship, every, the hosts, obviously the emcees were amazing. (laughter) They were absolutely incredible.

Jim: That was unsolicited. They were really good. I'll give you that- I'll give you that 20 right after the show.

Peter Lawry: Sounds good. So you walk into an atmosphere which- is an atmosphere of worship brought into the workplace. And I think, talking around the room, people were, for me it was just there was a sense of really feeling like they could be honestly themselves- in this space in a way that perhaps they have not really felt before or haven't thought they had the permission to be like in their business. It was, there was just an honesty and transparency around the room, which I thought was lovely.

Jim: Tini, you operated in stealth mode when you were at the US Christian Chamber, 'cause you weren't a keynote speaker, but you're married to one of them, which I think gave you an opportunity to hear things behind the scenes, to experience things in the hallways, in the expo hall. You got to hear things that we didn't hear. What was one thing that you saw, maybe a common theme or comments that people made about what they were experiencing?

Tini Lawry: I think they were all eager to hear what God had in store for them, if they could get guidance or direction for their businesses. And I think that theme came through the days that and that probably came through that bit that they wanted to find healing for themselves first. So there would be, there were no blockages in the way to actually hear what God had in store for them. They knew that God was involved or what, but I think they really wanted to grab it and see it develop.

Martha: I think I hear - I feel the word expectant as something that was really powerful there. People, anticipation and expecting God to really give them direction. All of our listeners have heard us advertising and talking about this event for so long, and this is just a little snippet of our unpacking it, and hopefully you will be looking forward to the next time that we have this event happening.

Jim: In 2028. That's right.

Martha: That's right. Okay, so we're talking about our US Christian Chamber of Commerce. Is there a New Zealand Christian Chamber of Commerce?

Peter Lawry: No. In short, there isn't. There is an ICCC, an International- ... Christian Chamber of Commerce. But what's interesting is that I don't believe that I've ever met anybody who's part of it. They've never mentioned it, and it doesn't seem to have an incredibly strong profile. And so that's something which, you know, having experienced what's going on here, obviously I go back there, we go back there with a sense that yeah, there's something here that's missing in New Zealand.

Jim: So when marketplace believers gather in New Zealand, which I know New Zealand's a thousand miles from north to south, two different islands and all these other small little islands. It's a great place. It's Middle Earth, as all you Lord of the Rings fans call it. But when- first of all, do marketplace believers gather together?

Peter Lawry: Yes.

Jim: So when they gather together, who organizes it?

Peter Lawry: So if you imagine that we can get two and a half New Zealands within the state of Texas y- you get a kind of an idea of size. So whereas in America you have a number of organizations within the faith at work movement, all of which kind of serve an area or a particular sector of the market.

In New Zealand, we are one country and we have 5.3 million people. So that's like what we have in Missouri. We have 5 million people in Missouri. Okay. Wow. So what generally happens is that the churches that have business people in their churches will actually put on their own events. But there will also be some conferences there that are specifically sponsored to, to go beyond church.

And even, if there is something going on in a particular church, then the doors are always open for others to, to come. So it tends to be done on that base.

Jim: But so churches hold marketplace events?

Peter Lawry: Churches hold places for their business people, I guess would be the better way to put it.

Jim: Yeah. That's cool. Is everybody listening out there? That's a great idea. We should do that here in the United States of America. Churches, we'd love to get you involved in the faith and work movement, and we know there are some churches out there, but everybody listening that's part of a church, let your pastors know, "Hey, I'm out here. I'm running a business. I'm working in a business." "We would love to be encouraged on a regular basis inside the four walls of our church with the people that we know and love." What a great idea.

Martha, it is so much fun to hear how others are gathering and getting encouragement from around the globe, and iWork4Him is designed to be the mouthpiece for what God is doing in and through believers everywhere. And everybody listening, you are part of this movement, and your monthly gift keeps the movement going. How about a $5 a month commitment to iWork4Him? Please go to iwork4him.com/donate and become part of our team, encouraging workplace believers around the globe.

Martha: So Tini, let's talk to you for just a minute. Okay, we're gonna switch gears a little bit. We've been talking about an event we were at together, but you specifically are working as what we call a discipler or a mentor of the next generation of leaders through the Lions Club. So what are you seeing that's encouraging in that generation?

Tini Lawry: Ooh, I love that. That is really what excites me because it is not that many years ago that teenagers when you were interacting with them you got a grunt or something. (chuckles) sorry. So it was four years ago so the... I work with high school teenagers in a state high school.

So we're doing projects as the Lions do and community work. So these kids or these teenagers would see the, what was wrong in the community, what was wrong with the environment and stuff like that. And at that stage, four years ago, they would point the finger at the parents should fix it or the school should fix it.

It was the society's fault and they should fix it. So two years ago I saw a change because the parents got involved. They probably remembered the time that they were helping out in the community. So they were helping in the community projects. They were in the fundraising for the, for the community.

They were helping with the environment and stuff like that. And it was really great to see. And now, so last year there was a change in the teenagers. They still saw what was wrong with society and wrong with the community and wrong in the environment, what had gone wrong, but they are now convinced they have to do it.

They said "we have to, we have got the enthusiasm, we've got the means, we can help them." And okay, there's people like me in the leadership and their parents, they would guide them what is available, and they do. And honestly it is yeah, y- you touched on something there amazing. And there is this kindness, helpfulness and consideration. I'll get messages which says, "Oh, Tini how was your day?" And then they start with the message for, "Have a great weekend." And I think, "Wow, that's a long way from (grunt sound) .

Martha: I wanna l- land on that just for a minute. Is there anything that you can contribute to that switch, why you think that happened? Or you think it's because you showed them that they were able to do it?

Tini Lawry: Maybe my way of how I am. I'm positive. I like to see the best in people. I treat everybo-body equally. I'm not judgemental. And because I believe in them, then I said you can do that. You've got this gift," or, "You can do that." So I think that sort of thing rubs off- Yeah ... and it becomes attractive.

Jim: Yeah. That's awesome. I love that. And you're pouring into the next generation, and I know the Lions Club is not specifically a kingdom-focused organization, but they're doing some kingdom work. They really are. They're an old organization. I'm involved in a Lions Club right here in Marionville. It's 87 years old. What's great is you're seeing this next generation, and they're asking questions, too, aren't they, Tini? They wanna know. They want stuff to have meaning and purpose, don't they?

Tini Lawry: That's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think it's this being kind and these are the characteristics of Jesus really, and that's the only thing I can actually portray because I'm not allowed in the state school to preach the gospel or anything like that. But by showing what you are, they can come to you and say Tini, where have you got that strength from?" Or, "Where have you got that solution from?" Or... So yes, there are openings.

Jim: That's so good. Nice. So Peter, you're experiencing God reaching out into, to marketplace believers. That's where God's got you focused. And you're, and God's given you this assignment to desperately trying to speak over them and into them. Why is this so needed for marketplace believers? I think I know the answer, but why do you think it's so needed?

Peter Lawry: For me, it was a revelation for me really when a, an 82-year-old intercessor actually challenged me to make God the CEO of my business, and that I become merely His employee, and that just changed completely the way that I saw the marketplace, the way that I saw business, and the way that I saw Christian businesses being able to interact in the marketplace.

Because up until that point, I think I'd seen them more as commercial businesses with a bit of a skin of Christianity around them, values, morals, principles, et cetera, et cetera. And suddenly I began to realize, Oh my goodness, if He honestly wants to take the lead in this business, then that just changes the whole game plan, because from that point on, not only can we trust that he actually knows what to do in a business and knows a lot better than we know how to run a business, which we see of course with the fishermen throwing their nets over the side of the boat with Jesus' command and up come the biggest catch they've ever had.

But we also, it's just a, it's a situation in which Jesus himself was so utterly comfortable. He went to the synagogues. He occasionally went to the temples, but he did virtually all of his ministry outside in the place where people were. And so for me, bringing the Word of God into, bringing the person of Jesus into the business is a vital aspect of not just a Christian business, let's put it that way, but let's give it a new word and call it a kingdom business, in that place where we are praying, "Lord, your will be done through this business- here on Earth exactly as you've designed it in Heaven."

So for me, that's a really important part of what I've done, and I've seen radical changes in businesses as we've done this.

Jim: And I wanna add that it's also important for people to understand, even more simplistically what you said, is that people need to know their work matters to God.

Peter Lawry: Absolutely.

Jim: And that's something that's a new concept to almost all believers. And I am agreeing with you. There's no such thing as a Christian business 'cause a business can't get saved. But there are people who are following Jesus who run businesses, which make that a kingdom business, 'cause everybody around them is benefiting from what they're doing because they're following Jesus. So the, I love the way you worded that. So Martha, you go ahead. A- ask this question, and then I've got a follow-up question.

Martha: Yeah. So this is a deep dive, you know into it, because there's so much that we could talk about that leads to this point. But ultimately, I believe that most people in their work when they're trying to bring biblical principles in, when they're trying to be kingdom wonder how they can hear the voice of God. Because ultimately, we need that leadership. It comes from hearing from the Lord.

Jim: Yeah.

Martha: How do we know? How do, how can someone learn to hear God's voice?

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Okay. So Peter, now the deep dive. Can someone learn to hear the voice of God for themselves?

Peter Lawry: Oh, yes, and it is so vital. And the starting point here is in John chapter 10. At the beginning of John chapter 10, Jesus says My sheep hear my voice. And when you get to the end of John chapter 10, around verse 28, it says, "My sheep hear my voice." If that's the case, if my sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me, which is the fullness of that later verse, then we have to start with the, we've got to begin, we've got to change our mindset here.

I hear people say to me "Yeah, but I don't hear God." Actually that's not true. The problem is you've not tuned in to what he's saying. So how can we hear the voice of God? And to be honest, this could be a half-an-hour topic on its own. It's such a big one. But in, in real simple terms, let me say this, that God is a God of creativity, and as a result, he speaks in 100 different ways, and he will do so for you in the way that you are most likely to hear him.

The listening is a decision that we have to make. We have to recognize that he's speaking, point number one, and we have to say, "Okay if he's talking, how do I tune in on the radio?" If you want to put it that way. If he's speaking on one frequency and I'm listening on another, I'd better change the way that I listen. So how then am I going to hear him? What am I looking for as I try that tuning process? And if you're creative, it's highly likely he's gonna speak to you in creative ways, and that could be through dreams, it could be through visions, it could be through a picture on a wall that just speaks to you deeply of something.

It could be a sunset, it could be you're watching the waves on a beach, and suddenly there's something majestic that pounces out at you. If you're more of a thinking kind of person, you may well hear him in words. And we often hear... In fact, I would probably guarantee that most of you have heard him and not recognized it, or possibly not recognized it.

So those moments where you just get that kind of a idea sometime, I think I need to contact so and and if you act on it, as often as not, you'll find that they are, "I'm so grateful that you you, you rang me. I just needed to hear what you've just said." That is God speaking to you, because thoughts arrive in our mind from three different locations.

One is just from our own cognitive processes. We ponder through a, something, we a thought arises out of that process. But the other two areas drop into our minds. And they can be sinful and from the demonic source, and we've all recognized that. We've all experienced temptations where the thoughts just dropped into our mind apropos of nothing.

But God speaks in the same way, because Satan only gets his ideas from God. He's not creative at all. He just borrows. So this is the way that God speaks. But of course, also scripture, of course also other people. And your spouse, guys. Particularly listen to your wife.

Jim: Speaking of listening to your wife, Tini, what I noticed in many of our prayer sessions over the last several weeks together, 'cause we've been together for, for three weeks, is that Peter's the upfront guy- ... but you're the lis- you're listening, and God is speaking to you, and you're hearing things, and you echo some things that Peter says. But you often add to what Peter has said. This learning to listen to God's voice, how did you learn to listen to God's voice?

Tini Lawry: Firstly, I'm not good at speaking, so I listen.

Jim: Everybody listening to the podcast is going- ... "I don't think so, Tini. You did just fine." (chuckling)

Tini Lawry: Okay. Okay. So I listen. I'm naturally listening, and I have been blessed with a gift of hearing certain things what need emphasis or what is an emotion behind it or something like that. And so it might be in the prayers, but it might also be just people telling the story or saying something, and then all of a sudden I can pick up on, on a word, usually just one word. And later on, when there is a chance, I'll be able to pray into that. That's, that, that's how I hear and see.

Martha: Yeah. Interesting. I think that's so good because it's discerning, and it... Sometimes people don't even realize what they've brought up- ... that you pick up on, because maybe either you're someone, not really familiar with them, and so you have a fresh perspective or you just hear profoundly the, the Lord prompt you with something.

And so what an encouragement for all of us to take that and say, "Okay, Lord, how can I be more like that?" I'm sitting here thinking about the fact that you started, Peter, with this comment about, that my sheep hear my voice. And we've talked many times about how New Zealand is full of sheep, right? (laughter) There are a lot of sheep there. There's six times more sheep than people. Yeah, so a lot of sheep.

And so I think that even when someone is hearing a podcast like this, and they pick up on that and go, "You know what? I need to dig in a little bit more. How do sheep hear their, the shepherd's voice? And how do I be like that sheep?" We don't have time to delve into all of that, but that's the kind of thing that I think is hearing the voice of God and saying it's pricked me.

It's made me aware of something that is in scripture. Now I need to dig a little deeper, because God's given us the scripture. That is the voice of God right there. And we often ignore that.

Peter Lawry: But He's not only given us the scripture, He's given us Jesus, who is the Word. Revelation 19 actually states that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I think one, yeah, two little things I would say is, first of all, ask Him. "Lord, would you help me tune in?" Just be practical. Be honest with Him. He loves those honest conversations.

Read the Psalms. You'll find out that David was. And the second thing is, when something pops into your mind or something appears to you, thinking, "Is that God, or is it me?" A lot of people ask that to begin with, and I would say act on it, and you'll find out, and sometimes you'll be right, and sometimes you'll be wrong. But that's the process by which we learn. Yeah. Look at a toddler.

Tini Lawry: I also would say find out how God is speaking to you. Don't compare. For years I compared it with how Peter heard. And I think "I don't hear anything." And but my way of listening or how I get the words are totally different. As I was describing before, it can be just a word, what somebody says, or I all of a sudden get the picture or the overview what leads to a strategy of whatever people are planning. So find out the way you personally hear it. Don't compare to other people.

Martha: Yeah. That's such a powerful word.

Jim: And we say that all the time, there are eight-plus billion people on this planet- ... all created in the image of God, none alike, and each one of us experiences God differently because we are created differently in the image of God. And so there could be eight billion different ways to hear the voice of God. We're never gonna know, because we're not gonna be that smart.

Martha: No, and I was thinking about that too, and I just wanna comment. It wasn't until I heard a pastor's wife speaking about how she communicated with God that I finally was like, "Oh, what God's doing in me is okay." It's not this 10-point program that somebody else is saying that, that's how they hear God's voice. And it gave me permission to lean into that more, because I was like, "Okay, you're exactly right, Tini. I shouldn't compare myself to anybody else. It's my relationship with the Lord." We need to do it. We need to be in the Word and actually communicating with Him. And really, that's the beginning of all of it.

Peter Lawry: But weighing and testing is also important. One of the ways we weigh and test is we share with other people-

Martha: Okay ...

Peter Lawry: what we're receiving, because that provides accountability. Especially while we're learning. "Do you think this was God when I heard this?" "Yeah, I think it was, for this reason."

Martha: Yeah.

Peter Lawry: And you're right to use the word communication rather than hearing. We use hearing as a bit of a lazy word. We don't all hear God. Sometimes we see Him. Sometimes we experience Him. Sometimes it's just an emotion or an awareness, a discerned awareness in a space. You can walk into a room, and it feels really different from another room, and sometimes that's the presence of God.

Jim: All right. So you two are heading off into, quote-unquote, "retirement years," which we're gonna talk about on the next episode of iRetire4Him. But you're not retiring. And you guys have had two... You've had really a bifurcated path in ministry, for the most part. Lions Club and marketplace ministry, and Peter was a, basically a kingdom business consultant, and Tini's a mentor and disciple. Tini is a mentor and disciple in the Lions Club, and been very involved in Lions Club International.

But I sense over the last several months as we've been talking and prepping and as we've spent many weeks together now, many, many, many weeks together. (laughter)

Peter Lawry: You'll be grateful when we leave, won't you?

Jim: Not even. Not even. But I did feel like emphasizing that just for fun... that God is pulling you two together for the next step, the next stages of your ministry. Tini, you got any idea what that would be like?

Tini Lawry: No. (chuckles) Definitely, yeah, when we came to the US, there was, there were expectations, and we had the feeling that God was doing great things and, but had no idea what they were like. For the people we met, we were fresh people. They didn't know us from a bar of soap so what they saw and what they fed back to us, what they saw, made a change in me.

Although the roads were a little bit separate. And all these things are good for preparation because all this leadership stuff, what I've learnt in Lions and the event organization, and who knows what that will, how that will come together.

Jim: Ah, the New Zealand Christian Chamber of Commerce Expo 2028. (laughter) Everybody look for Tini Lawry. She's gonna be the one organizing that event. But you guys make an amazing team. You guys have operated in different sectors, but we've seen you together these last three weeks. And you guys- They have very complementary skills.

Tini Lawry: Yes. I came to, to the US. Peter was going to do all these things that God had shown him to do or what he got involved with, and I was just tagging along. So just... and I think I heard from people that say "Tini, you're the powerhouse." And I was like, yes. And so that changed my, my, yeah, perspective a little bit. And I said okay, maybe I am an equal part in this team. And it's just different things, what we do, but together we are the team. And so I can see that is going to be quite a strong team with God in the middle, so it's the triangle, isn't it?

Martha: It is. Yeah. Peter, anything to add to that? What do you see?

Peter Lawry: 18 months ago, I think it was we went to another congregation to... I was invited to preach, and they prayed for both of us at the beginning. And a group of about eight intercessors, six of them started prophesying over us. And all of them said, "We see that God is starting something new in you that you'll be doing together."

And when we first got married, which was a number of years ago now, we did a lot together, and our paths have diverged, not because we sought that, but because opportunities opened differently. And we felt strongly God was leading us both down those areas, and we felt that about each other's call as well.

So I came here thinking, "Lord, is this the time for us to find out what that is?" "Or would you set something in motion?" So I agree with Tini. I don't think we know yet quite what the future will hold, but there is a tremendous sense of us having done something together in a way we haven't for quite a long time. And it's worked, and it's been good, and we've enjoyed it.

Martha: Yes. That's so good.

Peter Lawry: Lord, more of it, please.

Martha: And what a great example for people listening. And the, it doesn't mean that you have to be working and getting a paycheck together in order to be doing what God is calling you to do on a day-to-day basis, whether it's ministering to somebody that you meet at a restaurant or in a meeting where, you know, one of you is in the meeting and the other one is, encouraging the other one about it. Whatever that might be, I believe that God has given us the experiences to help us to be who we are in that next chapter.

And so often, we've talked about this, you can look back and go, "Okay, I see how God prepared me by let- giving me this experience and this experience," and now who knows what's to come. So we'll have to do a follow-up. I'm guessing that's a for sure thing.

Jim: Part two coming up sometime in 2027, yes. Peter and Tini Lawry, thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today.

Tini Lawry: You're welcome.

Peter Lawry: Thank you for inviting us.

You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers in our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.