iRetire4Him Show 78: Moving Forward, Part 1

Intro: [00:00:00] While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self-focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement. To embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching are already in retirement. [00:01:00] You've tuned in to iRetire4Him, the voice and resource of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Please check us out online RetirementReformation.org and of course on Facebook, check out our page Retirement Reformation . The Retirement Reformation is founded on the main principle that your retirement years are the most significant years of your life. You take all the wisdom you've gleaned over the years and all the skills you've accumulated along with your retirement income, and you find yourself in a fully funded ministry model.

Your retirement years of are full of freedom and adventure. And Bruce Bruinsma has written many books to help guide you through the process of taking advantage of your retirement years. Bruce wrote a series of books called The Future Funded Ministry Series. Book One is entitled Finding Freedom. We covered that in podcasts 11 through 14.

Book number three is entitled, Charting Your Course, which we covered in podcasts 2 through 10. And book number four is entitled A Fruitful Retirement, which we covered in iRetire4Him podcasts 59 to [00:02:00] 62. Notice anything we didn't do? Book number two! So today we start a three part series on book number two in this series entitled, Moving Forward, putting Your Future Funded Ministry into Motion. Bruce Bruinsma is here to help flesh out all the details. Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Thanks, Jim. And, you know, well, we didn't do it in sequence. I think this will even stand alone just as a, as a really good reminder and encouragement to those who are stepping into that process of what the world calls retirement.

Jim: So what is the future funded ministry series all about, Bruce?

Bruce: Yeah. It starts with the fact that, you know, we are all ministers together. And that may be a new thought for some of our listeners, but it's very, very clear in scripture that a minister is not someone who necessarily is paid and leads a church and preaches a sermon.

But a minister is someone who spreads the word and represents Jesus to the [00:03:00] world. Therefore, we are all ministers. Therefore we are all ministers together. That then raises the question is, how long are we in ministry? And the answer to that question is for a lifetime. That then leads to another question of how does the financial part of that work?

And so what we talk about is instead of a retirement plan on the financial side, we talk about a future funded ministry plan. Ministry will continue for a lifetime. It must be funded., and that's a critical part of the Retirement Reformation message and encouragement to all of our listeners.

Jim: So let's talk about this future funded ministry. What, what do you mean a future funded ministry? Flesh that out more.

Bruce: We know that it takes money to live. I mean, it's kind of like, duh. What are you talking [00:04:00] about? Our lifetime that we have now is, and our time in retirement, maybe as long as 30 years. Most of you have heard me talk about that any number of times.

So it's 30 years. That 30 years requires funding in order to be able to represent Jesus as a minister and stretching out. So it takes, it takes money just to live for food, water, travel, you know, all the basic. And so funding now for those future activities. So future funding. And what will we be doing? We'll be engaged in ministry.

Jim: Hmm. It's amazing. So many of us didn't realize that when we gave our lives to Christ, that our ministry really started then. We had the ability, no matter where we went, to share what Christ did in our lives, but then to have the freedom to no longer have to work every day, but to be able to be in ministry all the time, not just full-time, but all the time. What an [00:05:00] opportunity! How important is it in Moving Forward for us to understand those three stages of retirement?

Bruce: Well, it's important to understand the three stages of retirement because each one of them is a, is a new conversation with the Holy Spirit in terms of what's next . So those three stages that we talk about are critically important. And in the book we, we talk about those three stages in some detail. Well, should we run through them ?

Jim: Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be really important. And, and we'll just note if you get a copy of the book Moving Forward we're talking about in pages 25 through 30 is where Bruce goes into details on the three stages of retirement. Bruce, why don't you just, yeah. Help us out there a little. .

Bruce: Well, you know, that's as we grow older, things do change physically, mentally, all kinds of ways. And so to be able to understand what to have an appropriate expectation of what a stage is going to involve, be involved with, and [00:06:00] how I can step into it and answer the questions.

A friend of mine, Bob Buford, who' s now passed wrote a book where he talked about moving from success to significance. And when he talked about that, that was in the stage of men and women who are typically in their late forties, early fifties. And, and so they have a new adjustment to make if their desire is to go from success into significance.

Well, in the three stages of retirement, many of the questions that Bob posed for us, for us to think about, come back again in terms of how do we know what's next? Well, that first stage, it is primarily driven by the fact that the majority of us, obviously not all, and there's exceptions, but, but that generally we are capable of being very active.

It doesn't change that much when we go from 65 to 75. That period of time is an extremely active period of time, and it's [00:07:00] the ability and the capacity to put into practice the things that you've learned to that point where you can lead and be very productive. So you should look for that period of time between oh 65, 66, 67, and 75, 77, 78, somewhere in that range. And so you can look forward to an active period and plan accordingly. Now then, when we move from active, let's call that 78 to the next stage, which, oh, we've talked about it in a variety of ways, but in this particular book, we talk about it as being insightful stewardship.

Another way to think about that is, is a priority of mentoring, of being able to speak into problems, issues in people's lives based upon the experience that you've had. You may not in fact be the chairman of the board, but you in fact may be a wonderful board member just to use that kind of an analogy.

And [00:08:00] so some people talk about it as middle retirement, the ability and energy to bring wisdom and insight into problems, people's lives and circumstances. And so it's a much more "let's go out for breakfast and talk a little bit" and "what questions do you have and how can I mentor you or how can I speak into your life?" Or "how can I help answer a question?" So that's the second one and, and that's quite different than that leading opportunity that we talked about in the first.

Jim: When we come back from our break, we're gonna get to do another neat interview with somebody who's gonna share their story of living out their faith in their retirement years. And during segment three, let's jump into and catch back up with what's that third stage of retirement. Then we're gonna talk about a future funded ministry attitude. You're listening to iRetire4Him with Bruce Bruinsma and we'll be right back.

Break: Recreating Retirement is an interactive small group study helping you to move from nothing to what's next. You can [00:09:00] join us on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM East Coast time on Facebook Live.

Our goal for this study is to provide a group setting for interaction and new ideas while leading you through a first step in your journey from retirement to reformation. Here's the big idea. During the next five years, 5,000 small groups will experience this journey of discovery in churches and faith-based organizations across the country. Is your church a place where Recreating Retirement needs to be planted?

Join us online to experience the study or prepare to lead a small group at your church or ministry. Email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org or go to our website at RetirementReformation.org.. That's Retirement Reformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. You know, during every second segment of every show, we always bring on a special guest and Bruce gets to choose those guests. Bruce, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Well, as a result of a really outstanding conversation and so [00:10:00] on that I, I had with Ron, I'd like to introduce our audience to Ron Clarkson.

He has a story and a journey that he's on, which I think will be encouraging to all. Ron, just give us a little executive summary of who is Ron Clarkson and kind of how did you get to be doing what you're doing and where you are?

Ron Clarkson: Well, it is a long story. I am the father of five, husband of the most awesome woman in the world, but then I have 11 fantastic grandkids. Started out the first third of my life just doing the education aspect. Ended up going to Dallas Theological Seminary. Came out of there, went into church planting for the middle section of my life and planted three churches. And then at the end of that I moved, transitioned into the marketplace, initially into sales.

Now I'm a regional manager for Kemper Health and so I lead an office of about 15 or so agents and just train them, recruit agents. And we are in the [00:11:00] health insurance industry currently, and that's where I am.

Bruce: So in some ways you are, in lots of ways you have been, and you are, and you continue to be a mentor. So how in fact, as you move from a life of professional ministry to a life in the secular world, how do those two things kind of now come together for you?

Ron Clarkson: Well, it's a lot easier in the secular world than in the ministry world. Plus I have to practice what I preached for all those years as I was telling people, you really need to be, you're in ministry wherever you are.

You're not in ministry just cuz you're professionally or vocationally employed and that your greatest ministry is where you work. So now I have an opportunity to do that. I have an opportunity to mentor and build into the lives of my agents. We're a values- driven office, not a production driven office.

So I can attract people that are looking to improve their lives personally, professionally, and I can have a [00:12:00] spiritual influence in an appropriate way. I'm also, I sit in a seat every Sunday instead of on the stage. And part of that is to be able to build into some of the leadership at our church.

And then I also lead a young group of about 30 year olds, 20 and 30 year olds in what I call an emerging leaders small group. And I just train them on Monday nights in leadership development and in increasing their leadership quotient.

Bruce: So as you think about those different areas where God is using you, what is the common theme that runs? What is the passion that drives you to those different activities? And although the activities are different, I suspect that the passion is similar. So can you describe that?

Ron Clarkson: Yeah. I think it's entrepreneurial leadership. My spiritual gift is leadership. I've practiced leadership development and training, but that's what I love. You know, last night we had these seven young leaders in my house [00:13:00] and my wife and I, we just laid in bed afterwards saying, this is awesome, because we're building into their lives.

We're building into them biblical leadership. And a lot of them, some of them former Air Force, some of them just in the marketplace, high tech. They just never understood that they could apply biblical leadership in their marketplace. So that's kind of what makes me tick is, is that realm in exercising that gift.

Bruce: When you think of retirement as a 30 year period as, as you look forward. Can you ever imagine a time when you wouldn't in some way, being able to respond to that passion even if you're 80 or 90 or whatever, is there a time where you think it'll stop and it's all over? Or do you think we're faithful for a lifetime?

Ron Clarkson: We are called for a lifetime regardless of what that location is. And because I love people, I love developing leaders that's what my passion is. So why would I stop doing it? Then you might as well do my funeral if I stopped. [00:14:00]

Bruce: There you go. Well, as you know, often when I do webinars or seminars, I'll ask, you know, how we know that God still has a plan for your life?

And the answer is because you're still here. Yeah. And we go from there. So, Ron, I just really appreciate the passion that God has put in you and the way that you're applying it, and we'll continue to do that. So thank you for being one of God's. men

Ron Clarkson: Well, thank you. Thanks for this opportunity, and I hope to one day catch up with you in not retiring.

Bruce: We'll not do it together!

Jim: Before we go and finish our conversation with Ron, I have a question for you. Since you've played in the, you worked for 30 years in the four walls local church, and now you're out there in the marketplace, there is this misnomer that's been taught within Christianity, certainly in the United States of America, that the sacred - secular divide.

And you have now breached the sacred - secular divide because really isn't it true as you've learned that everything that we do [00:15:00] is sacred and everywhere we go is sacred?

Ron Clarkson: Exactly. And like I said, I taught that and tried to ingrain that into the marketplace. People for, you know, 35 years that I was in ministry and now I'm living it out and I truly believed it then, but I am able to demonstrate it now in my life and I love it. It's just I'm just making more money and it's less pressure than ministry. That probably wasn't a good thing to say.

Jim: No, it's fine. But isn't it true though, Ron, that most people think the ultimate experience of Christianity is for them to quit their jobs and go to work in a full-time ministry? That's what most Christians think.

Ron Clarkson: Yeah. And, and that's noble. And if it's what God has called him to do, that's awesome, but where you are, that's your ministry. And it doesn't matter the vocation or the paycheck or the location, that's where you're supposed to practice Christ-like servanthood.

Doesn't matter if you're in the church or outside of the church, [00:16:00] and some of the most amazing people I've ever met and that I've admired are those that are able to live it out. Live out their personal values, biblical values, and their love for Christ outside of the church walls. They just need to be encouraged and trained and built up to do that cuz there's no encouragement on the corporate side.

Having been in that for the last 15 years, we're not getting encouraged to practice our core values. We have to live them out and then influence up, down, you know, 360 degree influence, up, down, and internally.

Jim: Hmm. Ron Clarkson, thanks for being on iRetire4Him today.

Ron Clarkson: All right, thank you. Have a good day.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Our work on this earth doesn't end when the paycheck stops. God calls us to be faithful for a life. Whether you're looking forward to retirement or you're already there, our all small group study Recreating Retirement will help you understand, engage, and activate what God has for you in [00:17:00] this fourth quarter of life.

Join Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma as you consider your past strengths, spiritual gifts, and your passions. And how they all come together is the call God has for you in these years. Connect with us on our online community group at Facebook.com/ Retirement Reformation. Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Eastern.

Or if you'd like to bring Recreating Retirement to your church, email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org. Are you ready to start your life-changing journey today?

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him as we talk about the book Moving Forward, putting your Future Funded Ministry plan into action, your Future Funded Ministry into action. Bruce, you right before the break at segment one, you were talking about the three stages of retirement, and then we had that interview with Ron Clarkson and wanted to make sure that we get back to doing that third stage of retirement and, and make sure we don't miss that. What is that third stage of retirement? [00:18:00]

Bruce: As a matter of fact, Jim, I'm gonna take an opportunity just to go back to review very quickly. We first talked about that age 65 to say 78. We call that active application. Matter of fact, here's some of the problems, some of the questions that come up during that period: what do I do with my time? Where are we gonna live? How do I manage my money and expenses? Does anybody value my experience and what can I do?

And then we talked very quickly about that second stage. So age, say 79 to 87, which we called insightful stewardship or some call middle manage. Some some would refer to it as a mentoring stage.

And so the, the questions that come up again, that you're faced with as you step into that one is, where can I fit in? Who needs me? Physical challenges increase. You don't wanna be irrelevant. You wanna be relevant to your community, to your family, to your church. And how do I keep up with the new ideas and technology?

Well, that then leads you to that third stage that[00:19:00] you were asking about, which in, in the book Moving Forward, we call reflective sharing. And then that idea of reflection is, is really important because it's that time when you're able to take all the years and all the experiences of all those years to be able to package them together and come up with some perspectives on life that are now as full and complete as you will be.

And so for example see Billy Graham wrote his last book when he was, I think 94, 95. Jimmy Carter, regardless of what you think about his politics, wrote two outstanding books after age 90. Both of those are really great examples of being able to collect a lifetime of experience and be able to bring it in. So here's the opportunity with grandchildren, great-grandchildren, friends and neighbors to, to be able to be reflective.

And some of the issues that come up during that period of time is there are energy [00:20:00] issues. How do I keep my energy up? Fighting a shrinking world. People are dying all around me. How do I keep from having a shrinking world, loss of friends and loved ones? Making sure that we're focusing outward, not just looking inward.

Jim: You know, all of this is conversation about our book Moving Forward, putting your Future Funded Ministry into Action. And here's, you know, if you're looking at the video, you can see a picture of the book, but it, it has to do with an attitude. Bruce, we need to have an attitude, a future funded ministry attitude. Can you describe that for us?

Bruce: Well first of all, that opportunity to make sure that we are looking forward and when we're not just stuck in our past. The value of our past is what we've learned. The value of what we've learned is in fact what helps us to move forward and to not be stuck in a, in the downward spiral of retirement loneliness.

And so that ministry attitude - first of all Moving Forward represents in just a [00:21:00] couple of words, that attitude, but it's focusing on what is God's plan? God's plan isn't for what's happened. God's plan is for what's next. And so focusing and being connected with God's plan and our response to it, that's, that's a critical part of that attitude.

 It connects us mentally with the issues, problems and challenges of those who God puts in our life and the role that we can play in prayer, physical help, whatever it may be. But again, looking outward towards working with other people. And then encourages the, the planning need to, to recognize the changes that are true in our life, whether it be physical, whatever the changes are and, and to be able to listen to the Holy Spirit and be able to take steps into God's preferred future and to do it. And then experience the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, [00:22:00] kindness, gentleness , goodness, and self-control. And so that, that is a encapsulation of the attitude.

And when you have that attitude, it will change your future.

Jim: It also has to do with some financial preparation. Now, it's not to say that people who have less financial resources have less opportunity for ministry, but it has to do with seeing your resources as resources to fund your ministry. How, what are some of the keys that are, that we need to consider in determining the financial landscape that will shape our future funded ministry?

Bruce: Clearly are what I call our financial landscape. And when we talk about our financial landscape, that's more than just, that's more than just the money you got in the bank. It's more than just the accumulated assets, your home investment property, what other in investments you may have. That's an important part, but it also includes a, [00:23:00] a compilation and an understanding of our landscape of the opportunities that are ahead of us .

That's a part of our financial landscape, the plans that we have and that God has put in front of us that we can step into. And then the application of those. So it, it is the net sum of all of the individual categories that make up that financial landscape, which is important that we get our hands around.

It's not just the money in the bank or in our 401k or our 403B plan. It's not just the money in an IRA account. Again, it's not just the value of our house or our other property, but it's also those future activities that are either going to require resources or will perhaps generate resources.

Jim: Bruce, I think it's important that people understand how to get a copy of all of the books in the future funded ministry series. I should have had 'em all in my hands. I'll make sure I do in our next [00:24:00] podcast. Where can people go to get not only Moving Forward, but all four books?

Bruce: Matter of fact, what I would recommend is that you do get all four books and you read 'em in sequence. Because I wrote 'em in sequence with, with the idea of initially that Finding Freedom and Moving Forward and Charting Your Course and a Fruitful Retirement, so reading them in series probably be the most effective way to do that. You can find those on our website, retirementreformation.org. You can find them at any place where books are sold. You can find it on, You know, I don't know. Pick one.

Jim: Amazon. I mean, they're, they're out there.

Bruce: Yeah, Amazon. That was what I was thinking.

Jim: but we'd love for you to get 'em off our website, Retirement Reformation.org. But Bruce, you, you've also, in addition to the future funded ministry series books, you've got the Retirement Reformation book, you've got several books, but you've got now Recreating Retirement groups. Tell people really quickly how they can get involved in those groups.

Bruce: Well, one of the things that we realized is that after an individual, someone listening to this podcast, for [00:25:00] example, or going to one of our seminars or going to an Oxygen for Life event that we'll do, they have what I call an aha moment, and what that aha moment is, is, oh my goodness, there's more.

The question then is, what does that look like? What does that mean? And so we then wrote and created Recreating Retirement, which is a small group series where you can go, go through it in community, but will come out with an action plan of what's next for you individually, and you're able to connect on those.

We're in the process of setting them up with, with different leaders around the country, but you can also, right now we're doing a virtual one that' s for everyone in the country to be able to join. And you can find that information at Retirement Reformation org. I'll tell you, it's really an exciting experience.

I'm loving leading those groups and [00:26:00] the other people that will join us to lead those groups because the discovery, the community, the relationships, and the additional aha moments are just wonderful to to be a part of.

Jim: So make sure you check out all the resources at RetirementReformation.org or also on our Facebook page. Just look for Retirement Reformation. Bruce, great conversation today. Thank you.

You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the Voice and Resource of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course Retirement Reformation' s very own founder, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say together iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering [00:27:00] during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at RetirementReformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from Retirement to Reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 77: Recreating Retirement, Part 3

Intro: [00:00:00] While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self-focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. Piece of the Retirement Reformation where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are already retired, [00:01:00] or are fast approaching retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the Mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

We invite you to check us out online at retirementreformation.org. Of course, on our Facebook page, retirement reformation. So many of you have asked over the years, how do I get a Retirement Reformation started in my local church or my small group? Well, today we step in to show three of a three part series introducing our brand new Recreating Retirement small group curriculum that's available right now on our website, Retirement Reformation.org, in our resource page for these three podcasts.

We've been doing a high level overview of that material from the Recreating Retirement small group. We hope to inspire you to start a small group study in your neighborhood, in your small group at church, or anywhere else where you find retirees who are looking for purpose in their retirement years as they [00:02:00] prepare for retirement or are already in retirement.

Recreating Retirement is all about the conversation. We've got Bruce Bruinsma here to help us to the next level as we talk about the final part of the Recreating Retirement curriculum. Bruce, thanks for being back here today.

Bruce: It's good to be back. I'm so glad we've done this. You're doing this three part series and just, you know, just pray that all the people that need to hear about it will hear about it. And when then will take action.

Jim: Bruce, as we've done the past two podcasts, we've done this high level overview. You've been taking people through the Recreating Retirement series. For years, maybe it wasn't all in a small group curriculum, like you've got this neat book today, but you've been taking people through all of these pieces as part of the Retirement Reformation. How have you seen it impact the lives of the participants?

Bruce: You know, I think there's, there's a part of all of us that, that is curious, that wants to know what's next. And when we [00:03:00] hit these different stages in our life, we're talking about retirement now, or one of the three stages in retirement. That question is gnawing at us.

Is there more in what's next? And as a Christ follower, when we read through our Bibles, Jesus makes it very, very clear that there is a plan for what's next, that there's a goal for what's next. There's preparation for what's next . And there's the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control that come as a result of being a Christ follower and taking those steps.

And so what, what God has really led me to do was to follow in the footsteps of some others who have done good work and helping people to bring together their understanding of what's next. But to be able to take all the research and all the, all the experience that, that God's blessed me with and to be able to say, how can we condense this to be as insightful [00:04:00] as, as complete and as satisfying and as transparent as we can possibly be for each individual to be able to take those next steps?

When we talk about the financial side of retirement, we talk about something which we call what future funded ministry plan. Well, here is the plan that goes along with the future ministry.

Jim: I love the fact that you used the word transparent in there because there's no value in being in a small group if you're not gonna be transparent people. Because we learn from each other in our own experiences and how we grow and, and being transparent is so powerful.

Bruce, in the final three weeks of the Recreating Retirement study, you start out talking about stewarding our gifts and abilities. What do you mean?

Bruce: First of all, that understanding of stewardship is critical to our Christian faith, our Christian walk, our Christian experience, and what it means that is that we put ourselves in a, [00:05:00] in the role of a steward, not in the role as an owner.

We acknowledge that everything that we have, everything that there is, was either created and is owned by God. And, and now as a Christ follower, we've accepted the responsibility as well as the great opportunity and the joy that comes with it to be able to manage those resources. Some of those resources are the resources that are inherent in us - the talents that we have, the experiences that we have, the wisdom that God has given us.

And so it is those talents. In stewarding those, it means using them for the benefit of others. Using them well for the benefit of others. And so the challenge is to be able to steward the resources that God has given us and to be able to not only acknowledge them, but to be able to apply them and to help build the kingdom.

Jim: You know, I love the fact that you [00:06:00] review within this study all the preparation that God has taken us through in getting us ready for retirement years. But most people, however, think that they're just done when they're retired. It's not true, is it?

Bruce: You know, it's interesting. I really believe that God knows that we grow older. Not only does he know that we grow older, but he's made provision for that . And the provision for that is to reflect because of the things that do happen just because we are growing older and physically, mentally, and so on. But I think even more importantly, he's made provision for us to be able to use the experiences, the faith and the, the relationship that we have with him to be able to make a difference for our whole life, not just a 65 or 70 or 80 or 90, but for our whole life.

And we don't have a lot of experiences of understanding what that all means. And by going [00:07:00]through Recreating Retirement, by being able to see how in fact he has prepared us, we will have that better understanding and able to experience that love, joy, peace, patients kindness, gentleness, and self-control for these 30 years that the world calls retirement.

Jim: All right, so how do we match up our desire to be good stewards with the preparation that God has taken us through right up to our retirement years? How do we match that up? Because that's not a teaching you hear about a lot.

Bruce: No it's not because it does have the different complexities. And if you listen to the first and the second series that we've done on the subject, and with this overview, you'll, you'll begin to realize that there's a lot of pieces to our puzzle. life is complex and we are complex, and I will tell you, retirement is complex. Unfortunately, many people have a misconception and need to have a reformation in their thinking and a recreating of their actions [00:08:00] to realize that there are complexities in this retirement.

And the ability to deal with that complexity and to deal with it in a way that reflects who Jesus is in our lives is just is, is a real challenge.

Jim: Yeah. I love that it. God has got so much for us and every experience builds on each other. And when you think of a lifetime of work experience and a lifetime of family experience and a lifetime of relationship experience and applying that all into our retirement years and how we can impact our local communities and our neighborhoods and our small groups, there's just so much in there.

And the Recreating Retirement small group curriculum, Bruce, it helps people get through all of that and put all the pieces into one place. It's really a great and valuable resource. Bruce, I'm so grateful you put it together . Listeners, check us out: retirement Reformation.org and get a copy of Recreating Retirement, our small group curriculum for reforming the retirement in your mind.

We'll be right back with a conversation with Bernie May and then we'll finish up our high [00:09:00]level overview in our third segment. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Recreating Retirement is an interactive small group study helping you to move from nothing to what's next. You can join us on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM East Coast time on Facebook Live.

Our goal for this study is to provide a group setting for interaction and new ideas while leading you through a first step in your journey from retirement to reformation. Here's the big idea. During the next five years, 5,000 small groups will experience this journey of discovery in churches and faith-based organizations across the country. Is your church a place where Recreating Retirement needs to be planted?

Join us online to experience the study or prepare to lead a small group at your church or ministry. Email us at contractus@retirementreformation.org or go to our website at retirementreformation.org. That's Retirement Reformation. org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, segment two of Show 77, as we are so excited. 77 shows, Bruce, it's amazing. [00:10:00] And in every show, Bruce, we, you have invited a special guest on to share their story of how God's working in their life. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Oh, I'd like to introduce to a very unique individual that God has used in special, special ways and has used them for a long time and continues to do that. His name is Bernie May. Bernie, welcome to the show.

Bernie May: Glad to be with you.

Bruce: I noticed that you behind you on your, on your wall there you have I believe those are Chinese or are those Japanese letters?

Bernie May: No, that's Chinese.

Bruce: Well, why in the world would you have a Chinese alphabet on your wall?

Bernie May: It's not the Chinese alphabet. It's John 3: 16 in Chinese.

Bruce: Oh, that's even better.

Bernie May: Yeah. And I've been, I've been privileged to work with some of the believers in that country that are interested in Bible translation. And there's a number of bible translations underway there in China. [00:11:00] And I've had the privilege of working with them and accomplishing that. So that's, that's a joy. There's a lot of languages spoken in China that do not have the scripture, and there's people that wanna see that change.

Bruce: What was it and when was it, Bernie, that God made that change in your life? That, that you would be dedicated, you would be dedicated in such unusual ways to Bible translation What transition process that God used to plant that so firmly in who it is that Bernie May is?

Bernie May: Well, when I graduated from college and was starting into business, I had an experience with the Lord and I surrendered my life to Jesus Christ. And I wonder what happens to you when you surrender your life?

What's he do with you? So I went to church and I heard a missionary speaker [00:12:00] talk about all the languages in the world that had no Bible. And I was trying to figure out what's God's agenda and how do I play in? And, and I thought, wow. And I didn't realize there was, first of all, I didn't realize there was so many languages in the world.

And secondly, I assumed everybody must have a Bible. We had dozens of them in our house. And I thought, gee, that's, that's a good thing to do. and they said the thing they needed most right then was a pilot. And I happened to have a pilot license and so I signed up and said, I will go and I'll play a role and I'll have a small part in helping people get the scriptures.

So I went, they took me down to Peru and I started flying missionaries up and down the Amazon river and the languages that were just being used for the very, very first time. So that was my beginning. That's almost 70 years ago.

Bruce: I was gonna say. How long ago? That was 70 years ago. Listen, when you get as old as you and [00:13:00] I are, we don't mind saying how old we are. So share with our audience how, how many years God has blessed you.

Bernie May: Well, I just passed 90 and I'm working on the 10th decade now.

Bruce: There you go. There you go. Yeah. God's been kind enough to tell me that, that it's gonna be about 104, so I'm, I'm looking for the next 20 years.

So of the two or three key highlights that God allowed you to experience in the Bible Translation movement, what would be those two or three things that really stand out to you as you, as you think to yourself

my goodness, I have been so blessed by God to be part of this? What are those two or three things?

Bernie May: Well, I do feel very favored in recently I was in a small group and they asked everybody to, they were just meeting each other and they asked everybody to identify themselves with one word that they thought, how they felt and where they were.

And [00:14:00] it was interesting. Some young people, they felt fearful. And you know, when they got to me, there was only one word I could think of and that is favored . And if they gave me two words, I would say undeservedly favorite. I feel very, very favored in life. I was favored while I was in my mother's womb.

My mother was a teenager, a young teenager, and she found herself pregnant and she wanted an abortion, and her mother said, no way. That baby is a gift from God. And I was born in the same bed that my 13 year old mother was born in.

And so God favored me. And my father married my mother right before I was born. He was only 18. And they became believers when I was three years old, and then finally great parents. And so God favored me. I felt like David and, and others in the [00:15:00] scripture said, you know, I, I saw you before you were, while you were in your mother's womb. And for sure God had a plan for my life.

From then I grew up, and when I was 21, I surrendered my life to follow Jesus. And I, I just look back on life and how would I have been, and now here I am in the 10th decade and and God's allowed me to just - I'm in fairly good health and fairly active and just rejoicing in God and what he allows us to be part of.

Bruce: Yeah, indeed. What do you have a remembrance of a, a Bible translation that was completed that you either played a role in or you were there that you could share with our audience? I know and in the Bible translation work that I've been privileged to be part of, you know, the excitement in, in people when they get the scripture is really amazing.

Bernie May: Oh yeah, yeah. I've had the privilege of being involved in small ways in [00:16:00] a number of translations, but one of 'em, I just was looking at it yesterday. The whole Bible is in Obolo, a Nigerian language, and I was speaking at a church in Detroit. This is 45, this is 45 years ago. And it was a missions conference .

There was a black man up in the balcony on the last seat. It was a crowded church. And at the end of the service he came forward and he said, you know, I'm graduating. My, my country sent me here to become an engineer. I'm graduating from engineering school in a week to go back to my country to be an engineer.

He says, but God's been speaking to me and my father's language, my mother tongue has no Bible . And I believe God wants me to go back and translate the Bible into my language, my original language. His name was Uchi . Uchi Aaron. And he said, how do you [00:17:00] do that? And I said, well, let me help you. You gotta go through this school.

And he committed his life to Bible translation, went back, translated the New Testament. He was, he was a very bright young man and he translated the New Testament. He wanted to translate the Old Testament. So went to Israel and studied Hebrew. He got his P - he came to the United States after he did the New Testament, got his PhD in linguistics, so a smart guy, and then he went back and he wanted to translate.

So he went to Israel, studied Hebrew, and he translated. And he completed - I think it's only the second national language there that has the whole Bible . And he sent me a copy of it and wrote about how I encouraged him through years. I discipled him and, you know, we, we were just partners in this. One Christmas after he did the book of Luke, he wanted to do the Jesus film.

And so my [00:18:00] family, instead of - I have three sons and a large family - and we decided on Christmas, instead of giving gifts to each other, we would pull all our resources and pay for the Jesus film in Obolo. So we did, and we sent him the funds, they made the Jesus film.

And he told me the other day - oh, that's been years ago - every year they go to every village once a year and play the Jesus film and have had over 1800 decisions for Christ through that film. So when I look at that Bible and I realize, and churches have been planted, having the scriptures is the foundation for our faith. And you don't plant a church, you plant a church on the basis of the scripture.

And so having the scriptures in a, in a language that they understand, it's very fundamental. And that's been very true, but that's just one language. When I went to the Bible museum recently they [00:19:00]invited me up to the Bible Museum in Washington, DC and actually I went for the dedication. And on the fourth floor, they have a copy of 2000 Bibles and 2000 languages, and they said that 1800 of those have been done by Wycliffe or its associates or the people they trained.

And I looked at that. I knew many of those. I'd been to many of those locations. So of a sudden it hit me. This is my legacy. Because when I joined Wycliffe back in 1954, they'd done two new testaments and now there's 2000.

Bruce: Praise God.

Bernie May: A Billion people can read the scripture now.

Bruce: The blessing that you have been to so many in the Bible translation movement and to the people in the untold thousands of lives that have been impacted by you. We thank you. And we're also encouraged by the fact that in your, in your ninth and your 10th decade [00:20:00] that you know God is, is using you and that you're still building the kingdom. And that's a, a message of the Retirement Reformation to all of our listeners that, that we are, we are called to be faithful for a lifetime. And I can't think of a better poster boy for being faithful for a lifetime than Bernie May. So Bernie, thank you so much for joining us today. Jim, do you have any questions for Bernie?

Jim: Bernie, I got just in 30 seconds or less. What's next for Bernie May?

Bernie May: Well, I've just I'm training young people to be beekeepers because a lot of places will not accept missionaries. But the bee problem is a world problem and bees are dying. And I think by, in fact, I know this is happening and we can go to places and help save the bees because if bees die, we all have a problem. The environment is a problem worldwide and most of the remaining [00:21:00]people are subsistence farmers. So if I can help them save their bees, that will gimme entrance into those places where I can share the good news of the Gospel .

So I just started a program and I'm training some young people now who have been able to go to places as a beekeeper, maybe would not be able to go with any other occupation.

Jim: And that's an inspiration for everybody listening today, that at 90 you're not done. God may have something new for you. Bernie May, thanks for being on. iRetire4Him today. Bruce, great interview. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Our work on this earth doesn't end when the paycheck stops. God calls us to be faithful for a lifetime. Whether you're looking forward to retirement or you're already there, our all small group study Recreating Retirement will help you understand, engage, and activate what God has for you in this fourth quarter of life.

Join Retirement Reformation [00:22:00] founder Bruce Bruinsma as you consider your past strengths, spiritual gifts, and your passion and how they all come together in the call God has for you in these years. Connect with us on our online community group at facebook.com/ Retirement Reformation. Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Eastern.

Or if you'd like to bring Recreating Retirement to your church, email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org. Are you ready to start your life-changing journey?

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him as we do a high level overview of our brand new Recreating Retirement small group curriculum. Bruce, this has been such a fun conversation and I, what I love about it is that everybody who goes through this as listeners, call 'em the studiers, their lives are gonna be transformed cuz they're gonna learn things about themselves that they never even knew.

And what I love is that in the, in the final three weeks of the study - so week five, you [00:23:00] talk about discovering and living out your calling, but we're talking about a 30 year time of relaxation and vacationing. Isn't that what retirement's all about? What does calling have to do with retirement?

Bruce: Well, we use the word calling because it's the word that that comes outta scripture and, and comes out of a faith-based environment of listening to what God is saying to us and responding to his call. You remember back in in the Old Testament with Samuel? And Samuel as a boy, he heard this voice calling him, and, and he went to see the prophet and the prophet said, no, I didn't call. Go back to bed. Went back to bed . He heard the call again, and he went back to see the prophet and the prophet. It wasn't me, but I tell you what, listen to the call, it might be God. And in fact, it was God calling on his life. And, and that was the, you know, that was a transition point in Samuel's life.

Each one of [00:24:00] us has transition points where God has a plan for us and he communicates with us. In one of our, I think the interview we did with Barak Strickland, he talked about listening to God's small voice of what it is that he is saying to him when he's in his quiet time in the morning. And I think that's, that's something that is achievable for all of us, is available to all of us, and is helpful to all of us learning how to listen to what God is calling you to do.

I talked about in a prior segment about the choice of going to Timbuktu. Well, it was God's calling in a different way, and my response to Him . So God calls in lots of different ways. I had a conversation earlier this morning with an associate of mine and I was suggesting to him a course of action, and he kinda looked at me and he says, that's funny. This morning during my devotions, here's what happened. And it was the same message. And he said, that's [00:25:00] also very strange because yesterday, in another set of circumstances, I got the same message.

Hmm. And so God calls, And it's not just once it may be, but he calls us and it is what gives us the insight to what it is that he's prepared us to do, and that will be the most satisfying things of our lives when we do them and help build the kingdom.

Jim: Bruce, is there any doubt about the calling on your life in your retirement years?

Bruce: It doesn't appear to be.

Jim: And so tell us the tell us that call .

Bruce: Yeah. The transition, I, I started a firm called Envoy Financial 30 years ago. Still give some leadership to that, starting in the beginning of this next year will reduce in that leadership role.

And starting at six years ago with the Retirement Reformation it is clear to me that this is God's calling on my life for the balance of it. And, and so to be able to engage and [00:26:00] challenge the 40 million Christ followers who need to reform their thinking, recreate their thinking, and move forward, and then to be able to train those who will come behind me when my time is up, to be able to continue that message and to make a difference in the world.

Jim: We're talking today about the Recreating Retirement small group curriculum that has just been rolled out from the Retirement Reformation on our website, Retirement Reformation.org on the resource page. Bruce, towards the end of the study, you talk about vision and mission, but I thought those were business terms. What do they have to do with me and my retirement?

Bruce: Every call that God has on our life has two parts to it, both the vision and the mission . Matter of fact, when we talked to Barak Strickland he, he took us through how God had painted a vision for him, and then the action that came from it. And so it's [00:27:00] vision and its action and response and learning and thankfulness and then next steps.

Jim: Hmm. But it seems weird. but I love the fact that you take concepts that almost all of us are exposed to at work and applying to ourselves personally and our 30 plus years of retirement, to have a vision, to have a mission, to understand who God created us to be. You know, this is all about recreating a retirement plan for ourselves.

Why is it so important, Bruce, that in our retirement years we have a plan? And we're not talking about money. Why?

Bruce: One of, one of the prior books that I wrote, it's called Moving Forward, talks all about the importance of planning of what is next. And so it is so critical to know what is next. Judy and I just returned from a trip [00:28:00] and we were at a crossroads on Martha's Vineyard and I said, which way do I need to turn Judy?

And she said, I don't know. I said, I think we need a plan. And so in every part of life, we need a plan for what's next, and then be open to how God opens and closes doors and gives us guidance in terms of how that plan is going to be carried out. It may be quite different than what we think, but if, if we are in tune with God's plan for us, we will always find meaning and purpose and we'll experience freedom and joy.

Jim: You know what I think would be great Bruce? In our next series we focus on Moving Forward your book, I think that'd be a great thing for us to do.

Bruce: Very good, my friend.

Jim: All right, so when I get to the end of this six week study called Recreating Retirement, and am I gonna be perfectly fixed? I mean, what's gonna happen in my life?

Bruce: What's gonna happen is you're gonna go, wow, I'm so glad I [00:29:00] finished that. Cuz you would've thought a couple of times during it because it asks to be introspective and to think and to reflect and so on, which isn't what many of us are comfortable in doing. And so at the end of that you go, wow, I guess I'm kind of glad that's over, but my goodness, look what I have, I have next steps.

Will it be the plan for the rest of my life? Probably not, but it'll be the plan for the next steps in your life. Mm, yes. That will be there. And you'll be able to sit down in your, in your prayer time and be able to pray your way through that and continue to listen to what God is saying. And then, and then as we've seen in many of these the people that we've interviewed recently that, you know, God brings that next opportunity to them. And what they do is then step into that opportunity and then be led forward.

Jim: It's exciting. I can't wait for the thousands of people that get to go through Recreating Retirement to be able to see the [00:30:00] impact. And, Bruce, for for us to be able to capture some of those stories right here on our podcast of people that have gone through that study.

We've gotta make sure we line up some of those as this rolls out across the country, as people get it on our resource page, on Retirement Reformation.org. We've got to line up those people. If you go through the small group study, make sure you contact us at etirementreformation.org and let us know. We'd love to be able to hear your story.

Great series. Super excited about Recreating Retirement, the small group study. So glad you took your time to get that done. So excited. It's rolling out across the country. Bruce Bruinsma , thank you so much for being here today with us on iRetire4Him.

Bruce: It's such a pleasure to be able to roll it out and as you say, to look forward to the impact that it's gonna have and our being able to hear those stories and to be able to share them.

Jim: Hmm. Amen to that. You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the retirement reformation . With your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation himself, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, [00:31:00] journeying from retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say together, iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to serve and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money, and invest it all in the generations both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign [00:32:00] the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from Retirement to Reformation so you can say iRetire4Him.

Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 76: Recreating Retirement, Part 2

Intro: [00:00:00] While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self-focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are [00:01:00] approaching or already into retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. I'm joined today by the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

We invite you to check us out online: Retirement Reformation.org, Retirement Reformation.org. So many of you have asked, how do we get a Retirement Reformation started in our own local church? Well, today we step into show two of a three part series introducing you to our Recreating Retirement small group curriculum.

That's available now on our website, Retirement Reformation.org. For these three podcasts, we're gonna do a high level overview of the material inside the Recreating Retirement small group. We hope to inspire you to start your own small group in your own local body of Christ, and start reforming, redefining, and ultimately Recreating Retirement for you and your friends.

Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to the conversation about Recreating Retirement.

Bruce: Hey Jim. I'm excited to be here and to be talking about this [00:02:00] topic. As you know, it's been in the works for a couple of years, and so to be able to bring it to, to fruition is really important. And, and I really like the name Recreating Retirement because so many people have a vision of what retirement is in their head, and in fact it needs some reforming.

Yeah. And so the opportunity to recreate the way we think about retirement and then the actions we're gonna take in this three part series is really gonna be important.

Jim: So Bruce, as you think about the everyday retired believer that's gonna get their hands on this Recreating Retirement small group curriculum, the study, what's your hope? What, what is your hope for that believer?

Bruce: My hope for that believer is that they go from Aha, my goodness, there really can be more, there is more. And God does have a plan . To answering the question that their grandchild might ask them. Oppa, what are you gonna do now that you're retired? And that in [00:03:00] fact you have an answer.

And it may be he's asking that to you when you're 61. He also may be asking you that when you're 71, he may be asking you that when you're 81. So to be able to come up with the answers for your grandchild, oppa, what are you gonna do next?

Jim: Yeah, that may be your kids too and your great grandkids when you get the opportunity.

All right. During part two of the study, you spend a couple of weeks focused on helping the Christ following retiree to get to know themselves, who God created them to be. Why is that so important?

Bruce: Well, you know, you need to have a platform. You need to have a foundation, a foundation of understanding, an emotional foundation, an intellectual foundation perhaps, but all those different elements that, that you can build.

And if you don't have an understanding of where you've been, it's kind of difficult to figure out where it is that you're going to go because what has happened in the past has helped create who it is that we are [00:04:00] today. And who we are today needs to evolve to who God plans us to be and the activities that go along with that for tomorrow.

So finding who, who we are, where we've been, what we've done, and this is gonna be a challenge for many people in there because it asks you to be introspective, to think about yourself and to think about it in a, in a creative way through a God-given lens. And so my encouragement for those that are, are going to take a step into Recreating Retirement is they be committed to that introspection and to that understanding because it's the platform against which the future will grow.

Jim: Hmm. And what you actually do in this study is you actually help them to understand the hardwiring that God built into them when he created them, but also the programming, the stuff that has impacted and influenced us as we've grown as human beings throughout our lives. Bruce, you also then [00:05:00] transition in this reflective time to ask people - I mean, this is stuff that they're doing, I imagine when you're, when they're gonna do this study, they're gonna be doing this homework all week long in preparation for going to their small group to kind of share some answers and share some things because you asked to reflect on five events that change their lives. And then you ask them about five choices that change their lives. Why the focus on events and then choices?

Bruce: Events are things that happen to you. You're in an automobile accident, that's an event. You go to a football game that's an event . You, you go to a wedding, that's an event that you go to. A funeral - that's an event. And all of those events provide a context for a response from you. And it is the context and the response that helps shape your future. Well, those are events that happen.

Now we go to choices. These are things [00:06:00] that you decide that in fact, they are presented to you and these are the decisions that you make. And those decisions that you make will in fact impact how you will respond to events in the future and to opportunities that are presented to you.

Jim: So, I don't know... I mean, so talk about you. Let's talk about you personally, Bruce. Let's talk about one event that changed your life .

Bruce: I was on an airplane going to Frankfurt and I ran outta stuff to read. I turned to my wife and said, what you got that I could read? She handed me the Bible. I opened it up to Ecclesiastes and my life was never the same since.

That was an event. That event of not having something to read, asking Judy, she gave me her Bible. I opened it up to Ecclesiastes. I read it through three times. It changed my life . Hmm. And we can talk [00:07:00] at another time about all the different ways that that happened. Well, I presume the next question you're gonna ask, well then what, what choice?

Jim: That's right. What's one choice that changed your life? And I'm only asking you one. I'm not asking you to reveal all five.

Bruce: The one that I would choose would be the choice when I was given the choice, the opportunity to go to Timbuktu, literally to the ends of the earth . And it was not the event of going to the end of the earth, but it was the choice that I had to make of, would I respond and would I go?

And it was God's call that I do go, and I did go and I went to the ends of the earth. And that choice that I made has, has colored and impacted virtually every other choice that I have made for the rest of my life . Primarily, and you can think of it in a lot of different ways, but one of the key ways was, was the answer to the question: if God calls, will I [00:08:00] go? If he puts an opportunity in front of me, will I make the choice to step into it? When there is an opportunity to make a difference, will I choose to do that? And so the book of Ecclesiastes on an airplane to Frankfurt and the decision to go to Timbuktu would be an event and a choice.

Jim: These are just a couple of snippets of things that you will experience as you go through the Recreating Retirement small group material. We're so excited to get it into your hands. Make sure you check us out online Retirement Reformation.org and either download or buy a copy. I recommend you buy a copy so you can make your notes and, and don't do this digitally.

Write it down. This is a, this is a study you're gonna go back to and look at your notes from going through it . Online Retirement Reformation.org. We will be right back with an interview with Marty Granger who's gonna share his story of living out his faith in [00:09:00] retirement and in segment three, Bruce and I will continue to do a high level overview of Recreating Retirement.

We'll be right back.

Break: Recreating Retirement is an interactive small group study helping you to move from nothing to what's next. You can join us on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM East Coast Time on Facebook Live. Our goal for this study is to provide a group setting for interaction and new ideas while leading you through a first step in your journey from retirement to reformation.

Here's the big idea. During the next five years, 5,000 small groups will experience this journey of discovery in churches and faith-based organizations across the country as your church, a place where Recreating Retirement needs to be planted. Join us online to experience the study or prepare to lead a small group at your church or ministry.

Email us at ContactUs@retirementreformation.org or go to our website at retirementreformation.org. That's Retirement Reformation.org.

Jim: [00:10:00] Welcome back to IiRetire4Him the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As you know, our listeners, if you've been listening for any period of time, you always know that in segment two of every podcast, we bring in a special guest. Bruce, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Hi. I'd like to introduce our audience to Marty Granger. Marty welcome.

Marty Granger: Thank you, Bruce. Good to be with you.

Good. And, and we could spend a couple of hours my asking questions and you giving answers, and it would all be interesting, but we've only got just a few moments.

Bruce: So if you'd be kind enough just to kind of give our audience a little bit overview of how God brought you to where it is that you are in your life stage.

Marty Granger: Right. Okay, well I became a believer in Christ when I was 22 years old. I was a young school teacher and I got involved with high school students at that time just sharing Christ with them spontaneously.

And that led actually to a career of 20 years with the ministry, the national Ministry of Youth for Christ, where I was an executive director in [00:11:00] the Albany, New York area, and then in the Washington DC area. And then you know, I when I was 45 years old after 20 years of doing that, I hung up my sneakers, I guess.

And I knew that, I knew that God had put a call on my life to the, to the gospel ministry. And by faith I stepped out and started an organization that at the time was called Faith in the Family. And I was doing speaking and teaching and really interpreting young people to parents and parents to young people and connecting both of them to the church, which was interesting.

And over the years especially living in Washington, DC after I stopped doing active youth ministry, a great thing happened. You know, living in Washington, there's always something going on, literally every day in that city. And my phone began to ring and I was getting calls from different national organizations asking me if I could help them organize large events.

So over a period [00:12:00] of about I would say six, seven years, I worked with the Luis Palau organization. I worked with Fellowship of Christian Athletes. I worked with something called True Love Waits. And then one day Promise Keepers called me - the men's movement - and they needed an event manager for their stadium conference in Washington DC. This was in 1994.

So I put together a team of men from all over the area, and we were responsible for everything that happened that day, except what went on on the stage. And with 52,000 men in the audience, you can imagine it was a lot. And a great thing happened as a result of all the networking and the contacts that I made.

And that was that men and women started asking me, how do you do this? And I said, how do you do what ? Well, how do you run a 5 0 1 organization and do all that you're doing? And I said, well, why are you asking me? And they said, well, maybe you can help. And what turned out in 1996, [00:13:00]instead of me becoming a consultant to try to help them do something that frankly I found out a lot of them were not gifted or equipped or even interested in doing, I set up an organization so that we could sponsor and host I'll call them independent ministries and independent missionaries. And over the years it's been 30 some years that we've been doing this. We relocated our headquarters to Charlotte, North Carolina. My son, my adult son, my firstborn works with me.

And we moved here in order that we could work together. And over the years, what has developed for me actually to get sort of to the point is a burden. I've had a burden for not only younger men and women that want to enter into ministry, but also as I got older, I realized there was a whole mission field of Christian, I'll call 'em Christian workers, but I'm including pastors, [00:14:00] missionaries in particular, those two groups that for some reason or another, maybe they were forced to retire. They chose to retire, but they reached retirement age from their formal service. And I thought there's so much capacity here.

I have such respect for men that I've known that have been in pulpits for years and have been in mission work for years. And when they're done, they're not done. And so many of them have a fire in their belly and they wanna do something. And so basically we, we created a program for those men and women both, A place for them to belong and a place for them to continue to work.

And it's really been quite rewarding. It's not the largest part of what we do. Most of our ministries now are, they're full-time and a variety of ministries. Everything from ministering to men to, well, I could, I could go into all that, but lots of writing and training and traveling and speaking and [00:15:00]lecturing and, and discipling and all of that.

Bruce: But Marty it would, it would seem, just in listening to that wonderful odyssey, I mean, which has gotta be encouraging to, you know, lots of our listeners. God doesn't seem to be done with you yet.

Marty Granger: Well, I, no, I, I am still active. I am not retired. And, you know, for years before I turned retirement age, I would always say, you know, kind of glibly or I'd say, well, you know, retirement's not in the Bible.

It's kind of easy to throw out. But I remember when I turned around 65, I thought, you know, I'll kind of wait until I'm maybe 67 and I'll reevaluate this. And then 67 came and I said, I love what I'm doing. Why should I stop? Maybe 69 and so here I am today. You'd have to guess how old I am.

Bruce: But no, I'm I'm gonna ask you how old you are.

Marty Granger: I'm 76.

Bruce: There you go.

Marty Granger: Yeah. I'm, I'm 76 and, and continue to thoroughly enjoy the interaction that I have and the, the [00:16:00] opportunities that God gives you every day. My little, sort of, the way I wake up in the morning is what have you got for me today, God? Who am I going to meet today? Like this interview. Who are we going to intersect with today that has a similar passion? And it's fun to live your life that way.

So I don't, I don't see any need to retire. Frankly, my wife would say, no, no. Please keep going. Keep going.

Bruce: Yes, indeed. Well, you know, if you hurry up, you can catch up with me. I'm 81 . And people say, what? Are you gonna retire? And my answer is, well, I already am. I'm doing exactly what God wants me to do. With whom he wants me to do it and where he wants me to do it. And he's uniquely prepared me for 80 years for what's next.

Marty Granger: Amen. That's great. Yeah. You know, I have a certificate on my wall in my office that is the certificate of my ordination, and it talks about the calling to the gospel ministry. You know, there's no expiration date on that thing?[00:17:00] You know, that's, that's how I feel about.

Bruce: And just for our audience sake, there may be some people who would, you know, like to avail themselves of your services and so on. What's the website or the best way to be able to contact your organization?

Marty Granger: Well, the best way is the web address and it's ministry -alliance.org. You have to put the dash in between those two words. But ministry-alliance.org. We rebranded our our name in 2014 to really more accurately reflect what we're doing, which is creating an alliance of ministries. They're, they, they're all different. Can I give you an example?

Bruce: Very, yeah, a very quick one, very quickly.

Marty Granger: A, a chaplain of a graduate school of a major Christian college, a retired seminary professor, and a retired pastor from Louisiana, and a man that was with the good news prison fellowship ministry for many years - these are some of the kinds of people that we've been serving in this program.

Bruce: Well, we would hope that [00:18:00] through the message of the Retirement Reformation, our new small group study called Recreating Retirement, that in fact the, the result of all of those is that there will be many of them that will reach out to your organization. We thank you for the way God has led you and continues to do that, so thank you for helping to build the ministry and being such a key part to that. We appreciate it.

Marty Granger: Thank you Bruce, and God bless you.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Our work on this earth doesn't end when the paycheck stops. God calls us to be faithful for a lifetime. Whether you're looking forward to retirement or you're already there, our all small group study Recreating Retirement will help you understand, engage, and activate what God has for you in this fourth quarter of life.

Join Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma as you consider your past strengths, spiritual gifts, and your passion. And how they all come together is the call God has for you in these years. [00:19:00] Connect with us on our online community group at facebook.com/ Retirement Reformation Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Eastern.

Or if you'd like to bring Recreating Retirement to your church, email us at contact us@retirementreformation.org. Are you ready to start your life-changing journey today?

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we're doing our high level overview of Recreating Retirement, a brand new small group material available from Retirement Reformation online Retirement Reformation.org.

Bruce, here you go. I'm going to, I got some zingers here for you. Retirement isn't the same for everyone, is it?

Bruce: Boy, it sure is not. It runs the full, the full gamut of activities very close to home in your neighborhood to experiences throughout the world, right? And for everyone it is totally different.

So if, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, huh, I'm just kind of [00:20:00] curious of what maybe it is that God has in mind for me that I'm not understanding now. Or you've got this deep hole in a passion, you're going, man, I am really frustrated cuz I thought retirement was gonna be totally cool and now it's just being a pain in the whatever.

And I need to be able to find something that's got, that's gonna get my juices going and, and get cranked up. Or it may be that just yesterday you saw a need, you saw someone who was hurting and you said, oh, oh, I could help. Wherever it is you're coming from, this is the pathway and the process and the Recreating Retirement, which will help you navigate through those steps.

Jim: You also touch on six questions that are related to questions that people are gonna face. These are choices they're gonna face in retirement, like the choice to love your spouse. Why is that so important for our listeners to take the time - listeners and [00:21:00] studiers, let's call 'em study people going through the Recreating Retirement study - to consider these choices ahead of time?

You, and again, you gotta get a copy of the Recreating Retirement curriculum and understand, but you're asking six choices that they're gonna have to make ahead of time. Why is it so important that we do this in advance of retirement?

Bruce: Well, lemme tell you a story. My son Brent, who is 54 and has Rubenstein Syndrome and has lived in a group home in Arcadia, California and in Chino, California for the last nine years and is now about to make a transition to another home. And in the way that he thinks about things he ruminates on the past, The circumstances then has a very difficult time of being able to step into the new opportunity. And so over this past weekend, we were with Brent and we went to visit the new house where it is that he would live with three others and, and the support system that's there. And he was going through a regular litany of [00:22:00] why he shouldn't change. And he lived in the other place for nine years and on and on and on and on and on.

And I said to him, I said, you know, Brent, the other three men that live here with you, It looks to me like they could use your help. And he, his head kind of went from side to side and he said, do you think I could help them?

I said, yeah, I think you could. He said, well, the room is bigger and it does have a door to the outside, and I think the staff is very nice, but do you really think I could help them ? I said, yeah, Brent , I think you could. He said, okay.

Jim: Hmm. That must have been a very powerful moment for you and Judy.

Bruce: It was.

Jim: In the Recreating Retirement study, you move on to identity. Why is it so important for those studying the recreation of the, of their retirement, to know who they are?

Bruce: [00:23:00] Who we are is the result of God's plan for your life, your response to it, and the way that you choose to deal with the issues of life that, that come along. And most of us are aware of the different kind of personality queries that we can have, ways we can learn about how our personality is unique to us, how it's different from others. . And, and so in the book, one of the things we do is we provide three or four different opportunities for each individual to be able to examine kind of different parts of their life, different parts of who they are, so they can have an understanding, and then to be able to see how that then fits into God's plan for that next stage of their life.

One of the results of understanding more about who you are is you have confidence and you have clarity about what it is that God is calling you to do. [00:24:00] And, and you don't have to be like Brent and be so worried about what, what is going to come up that you maybe never done before or you haven't done in that way, or you haven't thought about in that way.

But to be able to be able to put you into the place of confidence and of faith of taking the next step into the next journey of your life . It is who you are and who it is that you are becoming and the impact that you'll have on the kingdom.

Jim: Well, and in taking that who you are concept a little deeper, you also then dig deep into helping our studier, those studying the Recreating Retirement small group material, to study their God-given gifts, talents, and abilities.

Why do I need to know about my gifts, talents, and abilities in retirement? Aren't I just chilling for 30 years anyway? Sarcasm noted.

Bruce: As we, as we've talked so often, and as our audience knows, and if you're just joining us for the first time, [00:25:00] in fact, retirement is more than nothing. Retirement is in fact God's call on the balance of our life.

It is the opportunity to be able to use the characteristics that he's built into us and that we are continued to develop and to be able to use those for the betterment of the kingdom. There are so many needs in our world. All you have to do is, you know, turn on TV for 10 minutes and listen to the news and then turn it off to pick up the newspaper and read the front sections and then set it aside to walk down to the street, to go to your local rescue mission et cetera, to see the tremendous amount of needs there are and to, and to know that God has a plan for you to help address one or more of those needs with one or more individuals that he will put you in front of you.

What a, what a blessing. But to know that and to be able to do it with confidence and, and not to do it with fear and trepidation, [00:26:00] but to be able to do what will come almost naturally for you as soon as you're able to identify it and then take steps into it.

Jim: And we don't spend near enough time understanding who we are, who God created us to be, and what he created us to be doing, especially in our retirement years. Bruce, our listeners are wondering, how do I get a copy of the Recreating Retirement curriculum? Where do, where do they go? How do they get this, and what formats is it available?

Bruce: Well, our resource center, of course, is all at Retirement Reformation.org, which is our website. On that website, you'll see a whole panoply of, of resources that are available to you. Amongst those resources will be this curriculum and the ability to be able to download it virtually, get a hard copy, be able to be plugged into a virtual group that we'll, that we are continuing to do so that we will have virtual groups.

So if there isn't one in your church or you'd like to just go through the material a little more anonymously you can do that, and it's available. Also, our staff will be happy to answer questions to help you if you'd like to lead a group or start that in the church, to be able to give you the steps to take, to be able to do that and, and to then above all, have it impact your life and then tell others.

Jim: So go out to Retirement Reformation.org. Get a copy. You can get a hard copy, you can get a digital copy. I recommend the hard copy so you can make notes in it and keep it. Retirement Reformation.org in our resource center. Bruce, great conversation today, high level overview of the middle part of the Recreating Retirement series.

When we come back in our next podcast, we're gonna finish up our high level overview of Recreating Retirement. Thank you, Bruce, for being here today.

Bruce: God bless. We just pray that this will be a blessing to our.

Jim: You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. [00:28:00] We're Christ followers journeying from retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma, iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take [00:29:00] time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site.

Join this movement of God and Journey from Retirement to Reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 75: Recreating Retirement, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the Mouthpiece for The Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, and I'm joined today by the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online, we invite you to at retirementreformation.org. RetirementReformation.org. So many of you have asked, how do we get our Retirement Reformation started in our own local church? Well, today we answered that question as we roll out a three part series introducing our Recreating Retirement small group curriculum that is available now on our website, Retirement Reformation.org.

For the next three podcasts, we'll do a high level overview of all of that material. We hope to inspire you to start a group in your local body of Christ and start reforming refining and ultimately Recreating Retirement for you and your friends there in your small group. Welcome to iRetire4Him, Bruce, this is exciting. This the rollout, the final rollout of the Recreating Retirement small group material. I know you've been working on this. How long have you been working on waiting to get this rolled?

Bruce: You know, the, the idea and the, the realization there was a need probably goes back three, four years and, and the actual working on the, on the product itself, on what it is that we're going to be reviewing here and is now, now available to our listeners. That's been a couple of years. So it's, it's been a, it's been a long process, but a very needed one. And, and as you said, which is really exciting to be able to roll it.

Jim: So let's step back for a minute and focus on this. Why does the Retirement Reformation exist in the first place?

Bruce: Well, Retirement Reformation came about as the realization that there are as many as 40 to 45 million Christ followers who, in their retirement years are totally committed to doing nothing. And the result of that is, has got all kinds of different pathways and implications. Some of 'em are pretty negative. And so what we realized was that there needed to be a, a reformation, a change in the way that we think about this subject that the World calls retirement. So the Retirement Reformation exists to be able to help Christ followers think differently about those last 30 years of what the world calls retirement.

Jim: So what do you hope our listeners and the future studiers of the Recreating Retirement Bible study or or group study, what are you hoping that they're gonna experience when they go through this together?

Bruce: You know, I think the process, at least the way that it, it appears to be evolving is that, that because of someone listening to a podcast or reading a book or, or somehow they go through what I call the aha. Aha. There really is more. There really can be meaning and purpose. There really can be freedom and joy. I just don't know what that means for me. And so the answer to the question, what does that mean for you, is the heart and the essence of the Recreating Retirement curriculum. And we'll talk about what those steps look like, but that's the reason for why it's there.

And that's the reason why the Retirement Reformation exists to reform the thinking of 50 million Christ followers, the greatest unused people group to build the kingdom.

Jim: The greatest unused people group. Bruce, what's your ultimate goal for all the Christ following retirees that get to go through the brand new Recreating Retirement, small group material? What are you hoping that when they come out, they're gonna, what, what are you hoping the end goal is? The end game?

Bruce: Well, the problem that we're solving is one that where 40 to 45 million Christ follower are firmly committed in retirement to doing nothing. And so the purpose for the Retirement Reformation is in fact to change that thinking, to reform the thinking of those 40 million Christ followers.

And once they have that aha moment of, oh my goodness, there is more. There can be meaning and purpose, I do have value, and God does have a plan, then what's the next step for them to logically follow, to be able to discover? How God has prepared them and what that plan might be. So to answer your question directly, the goal is that 40 million Christ followers will have a plan.

Jim: That's fantastic. When we come back. We get to talk today to Barak Strickland, but after segment two is done, in segment three, we're gonna get into the - just start a little overview of what the Recreating Retirement Bible Study Group is all about. The study, the small group study that you and your friends can go through together. Please check it out online, RetirementReformation.org, RetirementReformation.org. We'll be right back.

Break: Recreating Retirement is an interactive small group study helping you to move from nothing to what's next. You can join us on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM East Coast time on Facebook Live. Our goal for this study is to provide a group setting for interaction and new ideas while leading you through a first step in your journey from retirement to reformation.

Here's the big idea. During the next five years, 5,000 small groups will experience this journey of discovery in churches and faith-based organizations across the country. Is your church a place where Recreating Retirement needs to be planted? Join us online to experience the study. We'll prepare to lead a small group at your church of ministry. Email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org or go to our website at retirementreformation.org. That's RetirementReformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we do in every segment two of every podcast, we invite a special guest on to share a little bit of their story, how God's working in their life. Bruce, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: I'd like to introduce our audience to a new friend, and his name is Barak. And if I can just kind of set the conversation a little bit before I ask my first question... was Barak became aware of the Retirement Reformation and reached out to us and he had a few questions, and as a result of those questions, that's developed into some deeper conversations and, and looking forward to some unique opportunities. But I think Barak, your, your story is one that, that really will resonate with, with much of our audience. After you retired, how old were you and what did you do for the first couple of years of retirement?

Barak Strickland: So I retired in February of 2021 from 40 years of service in the US Air Force. And I was a month before my 58th birthday. So I actually retired when I was 57. And so that's been about a year and a half ago. And as I've told you before, I spent a lot of time reading, doing house projects, helping my wife with her physical therapy practice, and just in general, being semi-retired from my 40 year career.

Bruce: As a matter of fact, I think you mentioned in one of our conversations that you spent a little time laying on the couch and reading a book or two.

Barak Strickland: I did. I heard the advice to retire to something instead of from something. Financially I was very well prepared. Otherwise I was not, even though I had heard that advice for several years. And so I finally decided that I would just have to retire and then figure it out. I would have the time then to figure out where God is calling me and what to do in my semi retirement.

Bruce: So what was the, when you finally, you know, after a period of time and, and you said, you know, I, I really need to do something more. What, what was the first steps that you took in figuring out what that more might possibly look like?

Barak Strickland: So after a year of retirement and really contemplating what I should do, I said I really want to invest the rest of my life in the kingdom. And so that's why the message of Retirement Reformation resonated so well with me. I found out about Retirement Reformation in June of 21. But after about a year, I hired a coach - God's calling coach just to help me. And, and ultimately it's, it's a funny story because I'm a fairly frugal guy and I think God has a sense of humor.

He had me pay for coaching just to get the message through my thick skull to deepen my relationship with him. I had been very dependent on assessments and what other people said or thought, and so through that coaching, about four months of coaching God really spoke to me to just meet with him and ask him what he would have me to do. And I think that was the turning point.

Bruce: And that's a major change in thinking that's Recreating Retirement in a, in a whole new way. And so what were some of those first steps that you took in, in deepening your relationship with God and, and being and connecting with him and looking for his direction for impacting the kingdom?

Barak Strickland: So it sounds very basic, but really I love my slow mornings and just sitting and drinking hot tea and conversing with God. So spending time in scripture, going through my devotional. And then the biggest thing I learned through that coaching is talk to God as if just like we're talking right now. Have a conversation. Listen for his still small voice. See what he tells you and deepen that relationship. That is key.

Bruce: Well, and so how has that practice impacted not only your relationship with God, but how you view the other parts of your life?

Barak Strickland: I think the other parts of life have diminished somewhat. I was, I was very dependent on my financial wellbeing. I've been a church attender my whole life. I'm a pastor's kid. You know, I, I knew religion inside and out but I think just deepening that relationship just elevates that and listening to God and bringing the people into my life. I've had mornings where I have just sat there and prayed and said, Lord, I need your direction.

And within an hour I would receive a phone call or an email that led me to other opportunities. And there's no way to contribute that to anything but God and that, that relationship and where he wants me to go in this time in my life.

Bruce: Well, you talk about, you know, you pray for and something shows. I know you called me about three, four weeks ago and and said, listen, do you have a place where I could park a 26 foot truck by your, by your house?

And I said yeah, I do, but why would there be a 26 foot truck at my house? Anyway, so that was a unique opportunity. Just quickly share that opportunity of, of how that truck came into your life. How it ended up in, in, you know, in my front yard, . By the way, I should say that Barak lives in Ohio and I live in Colorado.

Barak Strickland: Yeah. I, in addition to the coaching, I had been meeting with my pastor and talking through these things in retirement and deepening my relationship with Christ. He knew that I was looking. And so it's an Anglican church and the Anglican relief and disaster fund had an opportunity to take mattresses from the University of Dayton and Xavier University down to the flood victims in Kentucky.

Well, the, ARDF didn't get in line soon enough for those mattresses, and so that opportunity fell through. But Tommy Lamb, the director of ARDF said, Hey, I have another opportunity for you. Would you be willing to drive a North American Lutheran Church disaster response truck from Ohio to Colorado?

And he said, these supplies need to go to Black Forest, Colorado. And I knew Black Forest was right next to Colorado Springs and I knew Bruce Bruinsma and Retirement Reformation were based in Colorado Springs. I said, this is another God thing. God is providing me potentially a, a way to go out there and hopefully meet Bruce, spend some time there. And it's just a wonderful thing. And so, as you said, we communicated. You were very gracious and hosted me for a night, and then we went and unloaded that truck the following morning at the Lutheran Church there in Black Forest. So just a total God thing, and what a wonderful experience it was indeed.

Bruce: And so, you know, the, the transition in your life from retirement and I'm not sure what's next to, you know, delivering a 26 foot truck to Black Forest Colorado to be able to take care of issues that will be, I'm sure coming up that, that's just an amazing transition, but it's only one small step.

To kind of conclude, my last question to you is this, what kind of things do you think God might have for you coming up down the road? Is there any kind of a direction that that seems to be taking place or you're still in the discovery process?

Barak Strickland: I am in the discovery process, but God is continuing to bring things into my life. I know that I am a planner. I am a left brain logistician. I can help individuals and organizations figure out what's important to them and how to get there. Specifically another opportunity that has come about. As you know I've met with the senior area of church churches and ministries recently to talk about your Oxygen for Life event.

And so the, the community is very interested in this event. We'd like to hold that in the spring of 2023. And so there's another specific God thing that we met. We talked, I brought it back to this area. It was received very well. In fact, one of the ladies in the meeting said, I just talked to two of my friends this morning. We talked about meaning and purpose and retirement. They don't feel they have any. This is exactly what they're looking for. And so there's one example of what's gonna happen in this area as a result of just being willing and able and open to where God leads.

Bruce: Now Barak, thank you for sharing your life in, in this segment of it. And we look forward to a future interview and letting your audience know how God continues to lead and how you continue to listen. So thank you so much for being with us today. I appreciate you and I appreciate the message that God had you bring.

Barak Strickland: Thank you so much for having me.

Jim: We'll be right back on iRetire4Him.

Break: Our work on this earth doesn't end when the paycheck stops. God calls us to be faithful for a lifetime. Whether you're looking forward to retirement or you're already there, our all small group study Recreating Retirement will help you understand, engage, and activate what God has for you in this fourth quarter of life.

Join Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma, as you consider your past strengths, spiritual gifts, and your passions, and how they all come together as the call God has for you in these years. Connect with us on our online community group at facebook.com/RetirementReformation. Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Eastern.

Or if you'd like to bring Recreating Retirement to your church, email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org. Are you ready to start your life changing journey today?

Jim: A welcome back to iRetire4Him. Fantastic conversation with our guest, as always in our middle segment. Now in this segment of our show today, we wanna go in a little deeper into the Recreating Retirement that you and your friends can get together and go through together as a small group. So Bruce, why is this study necessary? Doesn't everybody already have a plan for the retirement?

Bruce: Well, I think we all intuitively know the answer to that and unfortunately that answer is no. Planning is for whatever reason, something that, that the majority of people avoid.

The closest they come to it is a checklist for the activities of the day. And that's good. But now we know that before the beginning of time, at least the way I read my scripture, is that God had a plan for each one of us, had a plan for Jim and Bruce and Martha and Judy and et cetera. And that plan then was, was put together initially through the DNA that starts that when, when we were, when we were born, from that moment of when we were born and we come out crying and we get slapped on the buttocks.

Then there are experiences that God takes us through and we respond to those experiences. So that's how we become who we are and learn who we are. And for Christ followers, we learn how to respond to those circumstances and that helps shape us. Okay. That brings us to this age of what the world calls retirement.

So we're talking, you know, 55, 57, 60 65, 70, 75. In that time, we worked hard and now we're ready to do nothing. Interestingly enough, you don't need a plan in order to do nothing. Therefore, very little planning takes place. And so the goal, Jim, of what we've been working on with the 70 plus podcasts we've done and the books and all the material is to, is to be able to help people to go from an aha moment of, oh, there is more to, what does that more look like? And Recreating Retirement is the process for doing that.

Jim: And you can do it with your friends in a small group. So if you live in one of those communities full of people, 55 plus, this would be fantastic. Invite your whole community to go through it at the same time. But Bruce, isn't retirement just retirement? Well, what's there to recreate? I mean, it's already been, it's retirement.

Bruce: Yeah, unfortunately, that is the way so many of us think about it. Why, why do we even need to talk about it? Isn't retirement just doing nothing, enjoying ourselves, spending our kids inheritance, traveling, woodworking, moving to Missouri, whatever it may be?

Isn't that what retirement is all about? And I would suggest that all of those are elements of that time of retirement. But in fact, they don't have - all of those activities have value but they don't have meaning and purpose. And so to be able to find meaning and purpose, and when we find meaning and purpose, it takes our lives from a, a point of enjoying nothing to meaning and purpose and finding what is it that will satisfy that open hole that each one of us has in our soul when we are not doing anything or when we're not following what God has in mind for us.

Jim: Hmm. So we need to have a plan. I mean, that's what Recreating Retirement, the small group study is all about. All right, so let's get into just a high level overview. You mentioned throughout the study this talk about the "longevity premium." Briefly, what is that?

Bruce: The Longevity Premium has a whole series of of elements to it. Matter of fact, if you'll read the Retirement Reformation book, you'll be able to see in greater detail what it is that we're talking about. But because we have experience. Because we have time and for many, we have resources that what we are able to do is to be able to bring those together in a meaningful fashion that will impact the lives of others and bring meaning and purpose to us.

And so the longevity premium means that we have the time, the resources, and the experience to be able to find meaning and purpose. You know, when we think and we talk about retirement, we talk about it being maybe 30 years. Well, we haven't had that opportunity, that length of time to be able to deal with these kinds of issues in a meaningful way since our friend Methuselah.

And so each one of us comes at it in a little different way and be able to come together in a small group to follow a curriculum that we'll talk about, but that the net result will be, you'll have a plan in place and you'll be able to answer the question for your grandchildren when they say, oppa, what are you gonna do? And you'll have an answer for 'em.

Jim: That's, that's a great one. All right. So you talk often, and you just kind of hinted at there a second ago about the three seasons of life. What are those three seasons?

Bruce: Well, we've got three seasons of life, and then we have three stages in retirement. So the three seasons of life are that initial phase between, you know, say zero and 30, where you're, in fact, you're just trying to figure out where first base is.

Then between, say, 30 and 50 or a little bit over than that, where you're applying what it is that you've learned. You're working diligently, you're supporting your family. You have a career, you have all of those things going on. That's a, a second stage, or second season stage. And the third stage then starts at, say 55 or 60 and begins into that period that we call retirement.

Now, when we think about retirement, there's also three stages of retirement. We have one stage, which is very active, say from 60 to 75 or 70. We have another stage, which we kind of call mentoring, the opportunity to speak into the lives of others and your experience. And that goes from, oh, say 78 to oh, mid eighties, somewhere. And then we have that last stage of the life that goes from mid to late eighties to, you know, maybe 104. And each one of them has different characteristics to it, and God has prepared us to be able to bring the help building of his kingdom. Those different assets, those different abilities that build different experiences in each one of those stages. And we need to be prepared for all three of them.

Jim: Bruce, we're just starting today. The part, this is a one part, one of a three part podcast series. Talking about the Recreating Retirement small group curriculum, where can our listeners get a copy of this? Can they download it? Can they buy a book? What, what are, what formats can they get this?

Bruce: Well, the format that you can get is obviously you can, you can go online and, and purchase it through our organization. You can also get a virtual copy online at, no cost. And then it's really important that there be a facilitator for the small group. And so whoever is going to be the facilitator for the small group, maybe that's going to be you.

They have the opportunity to go through the curriculum material virtually and will be starting a virtual class if you wish of small group working through the material. And it's good to have done it within the context of another small group before you leave the first one yourself.

Jim: Hmm. So people can get it at retirementreformation.org, they can get a downloaded copy, so digital copy for them to go to get access to. But of course I recommend, cuz I've, I've, I've gone through this study, recommend that you get a copy of the book so you can make your notes in it. Notes that are super easy to go back and go, okay, what did I decide? I mean, it's a workbook. There's lots of stuff to go through and for everybody in your group to have a copy.

Not just one per husband and wife, but the husband and the wife need to each have a copy cuz it talks, well we're gonna talk about the next podcast, but talks about spiritual giftings and things like that. Get a copy on our website, RetirementReformation.org. Bruce, I can't wait until next week. We can talk in more detail about all this Recreating Retirement study. It's exciting. I'm excited. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: Thanks Jim. I am too. And, and we look forward to the huge impact that it's gonna have on the community of followers that are part of Retirement Reformation now, and those who are to come.

Jim: You've been listening to the iRetire4Him Podcast, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to Recreating Retirement, so we can ultimately say, iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site.

Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 74: Ageism and the Christ-Following Retiree, Part 3

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are already in retirement or may be fast approaching. You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the Mouthpiece of The Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course I am joined as always by the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online. Please check us out online: Retirement Reformation.org. Retirement Reformation.org. We have phenomenal resources out there for you. Books. We've got other interviews. We've got connections to our YouTube page. We've, we've got tons of podcasts, so many articles, lots of things, small group studies for your church group, so many resources out there. The ability to be mentored and discipled as a, as a Christ following retiree - so much out there. Retirement Reformation.org and make sure when you're out there you sign the manifesto. You gotta sign the manifesto. You'll see what I mean when you get out there.

We're talking about ageism because ageism affects everyone. This is part three of a three part series talking about ageism. Today we finish our series and for the difference or how the ageism is impacting the Christ following retiree. Why? Because we believe how we see ourselves is directly related to the messaging we absorb on a daily basis. If the messaging isn't from a biblical worldview, and most of them are not, that worldview doesn't honor and value the participation of retired folks, the message is harmful.

We've talked about our understanding of ageism, how ageism impacts the world around us. And finally, today, we're gonna focus on how our faith can help us overcome this age discrimination to help us gain a proper understanding of ageism. Bruce Bruinsma of Retirement Reformation is here to add his personal insight and expertise on the subject. Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Hi, Jim. It's so good and, and to be doing this third part in this show on ageism. It is, is so insidious. It's so embedded into our culture that for our audience to, to really come to grips with, Wow, that's true. And how in fact they can deal with that so that they can walk in the path that God has already established for them to walk.

Jim: Ageism is everywhere, isn't it, Bruce?

Bruce: And ageism is everywhere. It's, it's, it's some places intentionally, it's some places institutionally, it's some places where it's being internalized by those of us that are, are in that older generation. And it changes us. Everything from health to loneliness to just goes on and on and on and on.

And its implications because, you know, we are two things. We are a child of God, and we are a friend of Jesus. And so when we focus on that, those are some of the pieces that are important to push back against those cultural onslaughts that are just everywhere.

Jim: Hmm. So, we're talking today about how our faith can help us overcome ageism in our lives. What are some of the Bible verses that speak to your heart, that speak to the value of people who are chronologically superior or retired, or both?

Bruce: Well, you know, it's one of the things that a friend of mine has encouraged me to do is, is read through a daily chronological Bible and in that daily chronological Bible, where we are in that process is in the book of Job and in the book of Job the other day I was, the other morning I was reading and boom, there was four verses that talked about the value of, of older people interacting with younger people. Wow. It's everywhere.

Well, here's one for example, in Psalms. Try this one. Young men and women alike, old and young together. Let me say that one again. Let me just start that over again. Okay. So that you really get it.

Young men and women alike, old and young. Let them praise the name of the Lord. So it talks about our, our, our commonality of worship and, and praise to the Lord. And in that context, to be able to demonstrate to a younger generation what praise really looks like in that praise continues for all of our life.

What a, what a great insight. Oh, here's another one from Ephesians. So God has made us what we are in Christ Jesus. Go back to that God has made us. So we are created and we're at the end of that creation process, which means we have the greatest benefit that comes from it. God has made us. And what and what we are in Christ Jesus.

God made us as new people so that we would spend our lives, that would mean our whole life, not part of it, our whole life, doing the good he has already planned for us to do. And that plan doesn't stop at 65 or 70 years, 75 or 80 or 85 or 90 as we talk about on this show often that, that he has created the works for us to do and we are to spend our lives doing them.

One more. Here's from Psalm. Psalms 145 verse four, One generation shall commend your works to another. And shall declare your Mighty Acts. And so that talks about a younger generation appreciating the works of an older generation and commending them to others who they influence. And so as the community of Christ followers, as friends of Jesus, we are able then to be able to encourage each other to challenge each other and to realize that God is alive in each of us, whether we're 4, 14 or 94.

Jim: Is there one of those verses, Bruce, that just, it's you, It's the verse that you remind yourself of when you get up, when you're working out at five in the morning when the rest of us are still sleeping? Is there a verse that is Bruce

Bruce: Bruinsma's verse?

Well, here, here's one that that really, that really talks to me. It's from Acts and Acts 10:34. I really am learning that God doesn't show partiality to one group of people over another. When I read that, I'm, I'm encouraged because I'm part of one group and the affirmation that God does not show partiality to one over the other, and that in fact, he sees us as a community of believers.

All are his children again, whether we're 94 or 14 or 24. And so that commonality that we have in Christ is something that should be a bind that should bind us together. Bringing the unique talents and gifts that each one of us has in wherever we are in that development of our spiritual journey, to be able to bring that together. And that in fact, I believe is a, a key part of when, when Christ said you know, I will build my church.

Jim: Do you think that your faith has helped you overcome the ageism that has impacted your life?

Bruce: Absolutely.

Jim: When we come back, I wanna talk more about that cause we're out of time of this segment.

But I want, I wanted to know the answer to that question. When we come back, we're gonna hear from Steve Harling about an amazing ministry that he launched in his retirement, and then in segment three we're going have Bruce answer that question and go into detail on how his faith has helped inspire him to overcome ageism in his life. You're listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Recreating Retirement is an interactive small group study helping you to move from nothing to what's next. You can join us on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM East Coast time on Facebook Live. Our goal for this study is to provide a group setting for interaction and new ideas while leading you through a first step in your journey from retirement to reformation.

Here's the big idea. During the next five years, 5,000 small groups will experience this journey of discovery in churches and faith-based organizations across the country. Is your church a place where Recreating Retirement needs to be planted? Join us online to experience the study, or prepare to lead a small group at your church or ministry. Email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org or go to our website at retirementreformation.org. That's RetirementReformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we do in every second segment of every show, we always bring on a special guest to share the story of what God's doing in their lives. Bruce, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Today I've got a new friend that is with us. This is Steve Harling, and you're just gonna really enjoy Steve and you're gonna really enjoy his story. It will be an encouragement to you. So Steve, just give us kind of an executive summary of how God got you through those first 40 years or so and what he's got you doing now.

Steve Harling: Well, I'll tell you what I mean, it's been an amazing journey. I always believe that God wanted me to be a pastor, and I spent almost 40 years being a pastor.

And then I realize, you know what, there's a whole nother chapter in my life, and the chapter God has me on right now is to figure out how do I, how do I raise up as many workers and as many resources as possible to fulfill the great commission? And that's the mission of my life.

Bruce: And how is that mission now the organization. Tell us just a little bit about the organization that you and your son have founded and the, the impact you're having. And then we can talk a little bit about, oh, maybe something off the cuff, like Ethiopia or some place like that.

Steve Harling: That sounds like a plan. Yeah. So basically my son and I started an organization called Compel Global. The basic idea behind it is it goes right back to that verse in scripture that says, I am compelled by the love of Christ. Basically we think of ourselves as sort of the eharmony.com of missions. We match people that wanna give and we match people that wanna go with strategic global opportunities. We're kind of a middle man pointing in, pointing in one direction or the other and making connecting dots for people and it's been an amazing ride.

Bruce: Well, and, and, and you've got lots more to be done. Matter of fact yesterday I had conversations with the leaders of two mission organizations. And when I asked them about, are you having trouble recruiting people? And you know, as a result of that conversation, I'm gonna refer them to to you and, and, and your son. Because there's just a excellent, huge need of helping people. And, and in our, in this age group, there's so many of us that are still desiring to go.

Steve Harling: Absolutely.

Bruce: We're wondering if we have enough value to go and on, and on and on. And, And I know that is now, now God has just also kind of directed your life in a couple of other, other ways that I think people will find interesting. Tell us, tell us about those.

Steve Harling: You know, it's an amazing thing to be in this chapter of life, so many different opportunities and so many different things to contemplate and consider.

So when we started Compel Global one of our sort of clients came to us and said, Hey, would you mind running our foundation along with Compel? So I am actually the executive director of St. Luke's Healthcare Foundation and our passion is to come alongside of medical work throughout Africa, primarily in Ethiopia, but going way beyond that ultimately, and again, looking for workers, looking for resources, and it has been an incredible experience just awakening to the opportunities that are out there.

And quite honestly, I'm looking for anybody in the medical field. You've got experience as a surgeon. Just about any area of medicine. You've got so much energy still to give to the kingdom. If you're retired, newly retired, boy, if we got a place for you. Lots of opportunities in africa to serve God well, there are indeed.

Bruce: Matter of fact you, you've been gently twisting my arm to come journey with you later this year and I'm looking forward to the, to the potential of that happening, as it's always great to go. You know, you and I chuckle together is that, it's amazing whenever we go to someplace different, it's always amazing to find out that God's been there before and he is doing something.

Steve Harling: He is.

Bruce: And then for us to be able to come alongside. Kind of as a last word of encouragement to, to our listeners. These are typically people 55 and older, maybe as old as 85 or 90, but are looking at that next stage of their life. What advice would you give them on, on how to think about what's next?

Steve Harling: Boy, honestly, I'm in that chapter of life and for me it came down to the realization that I'm not, I would be bored if I just sat it out. There is so much potential for the kingdom, and we are kind of at the peak of our opportunity to make an investment in the lives of others. And so to me it's like, Hey, you know, you reached retirement age. Don't think about just going out to pasture or something. This is the time to step into the fullness of your potential for God's kingdom.

Step into the fullness of God's potential for the kingdom. Great work, Steve. So good to talk to you and appreciate your friendship and look forward to what God has in store for all of us.

Absolutely.

Bruce: You got, you got another question?

Jim: Yeah, I got a question. I got a question because I love the fact that you start off, I was a pastor for 40 years and, and then I retired. But why? Okay. I mean the, here's the deal. You're still, are you not a pastor today to pre missionaries and to missionaries?

Steve Harling: Yeah. Well that's right.

Jim: So that's, I just wanted help you with your language.

Steve Harling: What a guy. So you know what, I think you're once a pastor, you're always a pastor. And the gifts and calling of God are are irrevocable. So there's a very real sense in which I continue to serve as a pastor. It's not in the traditional sense, although I'm still very involved in local church ministry. I mean, I'm preaching virtually every single weekend somewhere. So still very engaged in local church ministry, but I'm not the, I'm not the lead pastor in a traditional model, if you will.

Jim: That's okay. That's okay. There's very few of those in the country, but there's a lot of pastors in this country. They run businesses and they run organizations. There's a lot of pastors in the country. All right, so here's, you know, because you, I'm guessing based on what you gave for your resume, you're somewhere in your sixties, is that correct?

Steve Harling: That is correct. Just got on Medicare, so yes, I am in my sixties.

Jim: Way to go - congratulations! There's still money left for you. All right. I'm hoping that there'll still be money left for me when I get there. All right, So here's the question I've got for you though.

This retirement age, this, this magical stamping that you're 65, you are now effectively, you should be retired. And you have a communication with your other friends who are in their mid 60. Do you guys have conversations about the unrealisticness that retirement age is today? I mean, do you guys have conversations about this? Cause it it's, it's one of those things when our grandparents were turning 65, many of 'em didn't even live to 65.

Steve Harling: Yeah. You know, it's funny cuz I, I was recently in touch with a class reunion and it was amazing to hear all these guys, you know, so many of 'em are saying, Yeah, we're, we're slowing down, we're, you know, looking into our retirements and all this, and it's, Dude, there's so much opportunity.

What do you, why are you winding down? This is a time of you winding up for the glory of God. You know? So I yeah. I don't know what else to say on this point other than this is a tremendous opportunity. And to be able to, to quote unquote not be bound, you know, and to have the freedom to go out and live the vision that God has put in your life. That's a tremendous opportunity.

Jim: Oh, that's, Those are some fantastic words. Steve Harling, thank you so much for being an iRetire4Him today, for sharing your story. What's the website of your ministry if people want to go out there and check you out?

Steve Harling: Yes, they should check out compelglobal.org.

Jim: Compelglobal.org.

Steve Harling: You got it.

Jim: And if they, and if they want to interact with you, there's a Contact us page out there I imagine.

Steve Harling: Oh, yes. There's plenty of ways to get in touch with us right on that website. And we'll follow up right away.

Jim: So, if you are a medical professional that you're thinking about retiring and moving away from your current position to do medical work in a different paradigm, please check out compelglobal.org and they could take your medical skills, whether from a CNA, all the way up to a doctor, anywhere in between you could be used. Is that correct, Steve?

Steve Harling: Absolutely. Orthopedic surgeons, the full works. But you know what? It's more than just, it's more than just medical. I mean, right now, honestly, if I had a guy that was willing to go over and be a logistics guy. If I had a retiree, let's say a guy that just retired who's willing to give two years to live in an Africa, We've got a huge project that's an eight story multimillion dollar medical center we need to build and we need a project manager. Tremendous opportunity.

Jim: Wow. You need, you need to have a Facebook page that says WE NEED YOU.

Steve Harling: It's great opportunity. I mean, what a difference you get to make. You're literally saving lives, you're saving souls. You're changing the destiny of a nation. It's an incredible opportunity.

Bruce: You know, Steve, I, I met a guy in the jacuzzi a week ago that fits that category perfectly. His name is Eric, and I will put him in touch with you.

Steve Harling: That sounds like a deal.

Jim: And if Eric's listening to iRetire4Him. Go out to compelglobal.org and get your application started today. Thanks again, Steve Harling.

Steve Harling: All right, thanks guys.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Our Work on This Earth doesn't end when the paycheck stops. God calls us to be faithful for a lifetime. Whether you're looking forward to retirement or you're already there, our all small group study Recreating Retirement will help you understand, engage, and activate what God has for you in this fourth quarter of life.

Join Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma, as you consider your past, strengths, spiritual gifts, and your passions, and how they all come together as the call God has for you in these years. Connect with us on our online community group at facebook.com/RetirementReformation. Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Eastern. Or if you'd like to bring Recreating Retirement to your church, email us at contactus@retirementreformation.org. Are you ready to start your life changing journey?

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, as we're talking about how our faith helps us overcome ageism in our lives. Now, Bruce, I asked you this question but didn't give you a chance to answer right before the break at Segment one. How has your faith inspired you to overcome ageism in your life? Go into that. Has your faith helped you?

Bruce: Well, without faith, I would be a recipient and a a victim of culture's perception of who culture says I am or I should be. But we had talked earlier one time about how critical it is to be able to do the investigation, to know what is true. And once you know what is true, and, and we talked about it in this last segment just mentioning it, that in fact, you know, I'm a friend of Jesus and I'm a son of God.

And so if I know that that is true, that is foundational to, to my understanding of what my role in relationship to God and that in fact he has, he has designed me, has a plan for my life that he started, you know, before time began. If I read my Bible right, and in all the different periods in between, it has been just a, a growing process.

And to know that what God says about me and about our relationship and what he is calling me to do that is much more important than what the culture is telling me. And, and so to be able to build up the, the wall, if you wish, to build up the, the strength to be able to, to refute what the culture is saying and then to be able to - that our faith is strong enough - to withstand the arrows of the devil.

Jim: So you mentioned in our first show on this, you know, part one of three, that ageism can impact our health. When you see our faith helping us overcome ageism, how does it impact our health?

Bruce: There's been a lot of research that clearly indicates that the attitude that we bring to life and the attitude that we bring to whatever challenges there are that, that come to us. And let's talk about health specifically here, that our attitude makes a huge difference on how our body responds and, and how God works through us to to be healthier, to be happier, to have more meaning and more purpose.

As you know, I'm just in the, about three quarters of the way through treatments for prostate cancer, and I will tell you that it is my confidence in God's plan for my life that I'm able to continue to take next steps in ministry, in relationship, in business, without a thought to the end that in fact, prostate cancer may bring. And that it is God's timing that will bring the end, not mine, and that I ought be excited about every day that he gives me, and I really am.

Jim: Hmm. And there's no question anybody listening to this podcast understands that Bruce Bruinsma loves life and absolutely fills every corner of his life with all kinds of really incredible things.

All right, so how can our faith, we mentioned in one of the past couple shows, Often retirees or people who are chronologically superior, as I like to call them. You keep calling old people. I don't know why. There's a lot of ageism that's in the local four walls, church. How can our faith help us overcome ageism in our church?

Bruce: When we think about ageism in the church, we've talked about it in other, in other contexts where the church is telling older people in the church that just don't be grumpy and don't forget to give and cause we got important people to talk to. To be able to be an encouragement to them as God is an encouragement to you in their faith, in their walk, and to be able to open up a vision of what God still has for them to do.

And in our interview with Steve Harling who is a, you know, is an absolutely classic example of that. To be able to, to be able to take a step. So for example we have a, a. Recreating Retirement, it's about eight or nine weeks, and it allows someone to be able to begin to understand how God has blessed them and, and shaped them, and for them to understand what's next in their life.

I think so often the, the folks that we deal with at church have stopped visioning what's next and are only either looking in the rear view mirror or focusing on nothing, but to be able to have some tools as you always talk about at retirementreformation.org.

But Recreating Retirement I think is a special one, goes along with Oxygen for Life, which is a Friday night, Saturday event that we'd be happy to do with any of your churches. But there are ways to be able to challenge people to have what I call that aha moment. Oh my goodness. There really is. And then when we put God's attitude into that and the action steps that come with it, it really does change our life and change our church and it blesses our community and can impact our grandchildren and our children.

I mean, the impact is just huge everywhere. And knowing that in fact you are God's son or daughter and that you're a friend of Jesus is a wonderful place to be.

Jim: But we also talked in one of the other episodes that one of the factors of ageism or one of the indicators of ageism is people saying, Hey, you know, what? Time for you to retire. Mandatory retirement. You're getting old. Time for you to check out. When are you gonna retire? They've, you said, people have asked you that if not one time they've asked you 50 times. I'm guessing they probably asked you a hundred. How do we, how can our faith help us overcome ageism in our workplace?

Just because the clock ticks 65 doesn't mean you're done. And honestly, there isn't a single company on the planet that doesn't need the wisdom of people 65 to 75 on the payroll, but they often call those payrolls because of money instead of wisdom. Talk to me about how can our faith help us overcome ageism in the workplace?

Bruce: Well, first of all, there are thousand, literally hundreds of thousands of businesses that are owned, managed, and run by people of faith and so that people of faith understanding these issues of ageism that we talked about and realizing that there are ways to be able to take advantage of the wisdom and the energy and the, the, the perspective of someone older in their, in their organization and then to find ways to be able to facilitate that.

I think there's a whole, matter of fact, we probably ought to do a whole couple of studies. What are ways that organizations can utilize older people and, and that in ways that they hadn't thought about before. And we won't get into that now, but I think that's a, that's a real, you know, that's a legitimate conversation that needs to be, needs to be held.

But I, I, I believe that the, you know, when people ask me when are you gonna retire? Let me tell you what my answer is.

Jim: Ooh, careful. No naughty words.

Bruce: After I tell him to get outta my way, cuz I got places to go. But no, that's a joke. Here's what I say. You know, I am already retired. I'm doing exactly what God wants me to do, where he wants me to do it, and with whom he wants me to do it.

And I'm so excited to have that meaning and purpose in my life. And so instead of saying, you know, I'm never gonna retire and going down that way. I just give them a description of what retirement can be - that in fact will bring meaning and purpose and value all to their life and to others. I'm already retired doing exactly what God would have me do with whom he has me do it and where he has me do it. And that then becomes a challenge to them to be able to think about their last years in a similar way.

Jim: That's a great summary. I, I want us to close out, you, you mentioned your Oxygen for Life weekend, Friday night, Saturday event. Why don't you just put a little plug in that? I know people can find out more at retirementreformation.org, but just describe it really quickly.

Bruce: Well, first of all, for many churches they need to jumpstart their appreciation and support of the seniors in their church. And so here is a way to do that because we bring together on a Friday night for a service, perhaps you might even call it an evangelistic service. But first of all, it's a time to be able to say thank you and appreciation and challenge to the seniors that are in the church.

Secondly, we know that seniors are leaving the church in massive numbers, so here's an opportunity to reach out into the community. And to be able to invite them to an Oxygen for Life event that in fact will help them think about their retirement in a way and perhaps even bring them back into the church.

So that's Friday night, Saturday morning, we spend four hours. We pick four or five really key topics that are important to seniors and we deal with them in a workshop situation. So it's a wonderful way for the church to acknowledge and jumpstart a new vision for what their relationship with their seniors can be, to be able to reach out to the community and for some, some really hands on learning to take place.

That then leads to what's next which is in fact the Recreating Retirement workshop that goes on for eight or nine weeks where people can say, Okay, I can go from: Yeah, I need to do something. I need to think about this differently, to how am I going to think about it? Right? And what has God prepared me to do?

Jim: Hmm. How do people find on the website? Do you have like an events tab or how do people find out about oxygen for life?

Bruce: You just look up when you go on the webpage. Look under - you'll see oxygen for Life and recreating retirement.

Jim: Bruce Bruinsma, great conversation in the last three podcasts about ageism and just the awareness of it, how we can overcome it. And really for obviously we got a little a few years between us just to help me be aware of even some of the prejudices and the things that I say even in my language, even in joking, but it's not funny. So it was just a great conversation for all of us. And Bruce, I just thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Bruce: Glad to be able to do it and look forward to our next series.

Jim: You've been listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce. Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation of our retirement ideas so we can ultimately say together. iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to serve and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money, and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to RetirementReformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 73: Ageism and the Christ-Following Retiree, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are already in retirement or are fast approaching. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online. Please do this. RetirementReformation.org. RetirementReformation.org, and you could also check us out on Facebook, but check out all of it. If you're just tuning in to our podcast, check out all of our past episodes. We've got over 70 all there as encouragement to you and fast approaching retiree or somebody that's already into retirement to help you, encourage you in living out your faith as you walk through those retirement years.

Today we begin part two of our three part series on ageism. Because ageism affects everyone among older people. Ageism is associated with poorer physical and mental health, increased social isolation and loneliness, greater financial insecurity, decreased quality of life, and of course premature death.

And as we continue our series on ageism today, we're gonna ask the question on how does this ageism impact our world? We believe how we see ourselves as directly related to the messaging we absorb on a daily basis. If that messaging isn't from a biblical worldview, that honors and values of participation of retired folks, that message can be harmful.

To help us gain a proper understanding on ageism and how it affects the world around us, Bruce Bruinsma from the Retirement Reformation is here once again to add his personal insight and his expertise on the subject. Bruce, I'm not calling you chronologically superior, but you do have a few years on me, but I'm not calling you old cuz that would be ageism.

Welcome back to iRetire4Him!

Bruce: Well, thanks Jim for, for beginning to realize what ageism means and how insidiously it gets into our conversation.

Jim: Well, you'll remember though, I'm the one that brought it up a couple years ago - hey, we don't talk about old people anymore. We talk about people who are chronologically superior cuz that's not near as offensive. And it's true. The clock ticks. Chronologically superior. All right, sorry. Alright, Bruce, why are, why are we talking about ageism? Tell the audience why we're doing that.

Bruce: Well, we talk about ageism and I think in your introduction, you shared some of the real downside of, of our perception of ourselves being minimized, destroyed, challenged, and the results that happen from it.

I think it's true at any age, but it's really particularly insidious during what we call the retirement years. One of the reasons is because we have the most time, we have the most experience, we have the most wisdom, and so we ought to be at the peak of our relational powers. We should be at the peak of God's wisdom being expressed through us.

And because of ageism, which is the systematic and systemic minimizing of capacity and personal value, it takes those things that God has built into us and actually minimizes them. You mentioned loneliness, for example, which in, in the world of retirement is, is probably the very center of the negative issues that can come as, as a result of that and the putting down of our ages.

Let me just give you some examples. You know, just in the world we, did a whole series on working over 60. And one of the things we talked about is that there are a lot of people that they retire and then they kind of think about it and say, you know, I really enjoyed my work. I like the people. I'd like to go back.

And the barrier that comes says, Well, no, not with these words, but you left because you're retired and now you're too old. Another one. Again, I have a friend of mine who's 62. and he's looking for a new job. And it's tough because in the conversations of, of the application, even though they're not supposed to ask about that, the age is there and for no apparent reason, he's not selected.

The way that we as a society unfairly privilege one age group over another. On the other hand, you got a positive one and that once you had 55 or 60, you get a discount at the store. And you know, that's a plus. Viewing older people as being out of touch, less productive or stuck in their ways.

I think the I think the technology is one of the things that has differentiated older people from younger people. And younger people say, you know, well, grandpa, he just doesn't know how to do that. And when you say someone doesn't know how to do that, that also means they're not capable of learning how to do that. They are less than, and so it creates barriers.

Jim: I don't know, Bruce, my dad is almost 90, and I've been trying to teach him how to use his iPhone for five years. I'm not sure. It just seems like I just, it just doesn't make sense. , Sorry, I just, It's the iPhone thing. I know. It's, it's the iPhone thing. Okay.

Bruce: Yep. I understand. On the other hand, I'm 81 and I probably know more about technology than than a bunch of folks that are 20 years younger than I am.

Jim: There's no question about that.

Bruce: So, it's also what are you interested in and what are you willing to give yourself to, to do it? But then the society then takes those stereotypes and turns them. And the, and the negative leverage that comes from that is really hurtful and it's culture's way of guiding our pathway in life rather than God guiding our pathway in life. Whether you know how to use an iPhone or not.

Jim: Right? It's a blanket application of something that may apply to one person, but it doesn't apply to 30 or 40 million.

Bruce: That is right. That is right. And so we we, we become aware of ageism through culture. We then apply those stereotypes to, to the people that we know. Hey, we talked about often, you know, this is really kind of blunt, but you know, what does a church say to older people?

Jim: Hey, why don't you go be in your own small group with all your own people?

Bruce: Absolutely. Oh no, they say one thing first, Don't stop giving.

Jim: Oh, yeah, .

Bruce: Yeah. You can't forget that. They're aware enough to know that that's critical. But then the second one is, you know, in the, in the vernacular that I use, just don't be grumpy. Stand aside. Don't, don't stop any of the really important work that we have to talk to these young couples or others about Jesus. When in fact, the older people are leaving the church in droves because the, the inherent message is you don't have value.

Let me just add one more thought. Talking with someone the other day, and they were in charge of the senior ministry at a very large church, and I said, "Define your program" to him. And he kind of, he kind of looked away for a minute and then he kinda looked at me and, and he says, Well, to be honest, it's two lunches a month and one trip a quarter. I said, so, where is the interactivity between the generations following what it says and everything from Job to Psalms to, you know, to lots of New Testament verses. Where is that happening? And there was a pretty long silence and finally he said, Well, to be perfectly honest, it's not.

Jim: Mm. And we'll post the name of that church on our - No, we're just kidding. We're not gonna do that. . But, but, but what, what you just described there, I have seen and observed as Martha and I have traveled across the country in thousands of churches, and that's why we're talking about ageism today.

We need to recognize it. We need to step in front of it. We need to help cure, to cure it within the body of Christ because it needs to start here so that it could then impact the greater culture. But the bottom line is somebody who's 80 has a whole heck of a lot more wisdom than somebody who's 40 or even 56. And, and, and that's, we, we tend to undervalue the wisdom that just comes by living on planet Earth. And, and that is so missed in our society today. It it just amazing.

Bruce: And let me just add one more. The negative piece to that is that when, that, when you are that 80 year old and you are being told in these ways that in fact you do not have value, that makes you hesitate to think about sharing the wisdom that God has given you. Unless you've got a personality like mine that I don't care, I'm gonna do it anyway. But, but for most people, that's hard to do. And so they, they shrink back into their own age group, their own shell, and you have what we call, you know, the, the decreasing size of your community and that then leads to loneliness. And we could talk about that for another week.

Jim: Well, and when we come back we're gonna, we, we've got an interview. We're gonna hear from Saskia from the Netherlands, part two of our interview with her. And when we come back at segment three, we're gonna talk about institutional ageism, interpersonal ageism, and internalized ageism. You're listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life.

So join us. Go to Retirement Reformation.org and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe, and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. RetirementReformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, as we once again bring on a special guest from the Netherlands today. Saskia Van Helden is with us. Bruce, in the last segment, in the last show that we had Saskia on, she shared a little bit of her story. Today what do you have for us?

Bruce: Well, today it's, it's gonna be a really the next stage of her story. And Judy and I were blessed to be in the Netherlands not that long ago. And, and to be able to go to church on a Sunday morning with Saskia and her husband and go to their home for lunch. And, and then her husband said to me, Saskia has something she'd like to talk to you about.

And I said, Great. I'd loved to listen. Well, what she shared with me blew me away. And so we wanna expose the way that God has used Saskia to begin to develop an international ministry, international impact with a very unusual name. What is the name of your ministry, Saskia?

Saskia Van Helden: Wake Up Deborah. Wake Up Deborah.

Bruce: Wake Up Deborah.

Jim: And it's found online at wakeupdeborah.org. Is that correct?

Saskia Van Helden: Yes, that's correct. Yes. Yes.

Bruce: So Wake Up Deborah. Tell me what in the world, or tell our audience what in the world is Wake Up Deborah.

Saskia Van Helden: Wake Up Deborah is a movement. It's a ministry of YFC International and it was initiated in Youth for Christ, Brazil in 1995. The national director went to a Korean conference of Evangelism, and during that conference, there was a prayer because thousands of young men went to go abroad as missionaries, and the prayer during the conference was a prayer of thanksgiving to God for all the moms that had been praying for those missionaries.

So the National Director of Youth of Christ, Brazil, he was impressed and said, that's a key factor. That's a key factor in bringing the gospel to the young generation. We start to pray for them, and I'm married to Martin and he used to be a member of the Board of Youth for Christ International, and once a year I joined him on a journey to a conference or whatever.

So we went to Argentina, to a conference, and between all kinds of stalls, there was a small table. And there was a woman my age and she had some buttons on the table and on the buttons there was just one question, Did you pray for your child today? That hit me and you know? It still hits me because I thought, Wow, what a message, What an appeal, because I live in a country of welfare.

In our country, children and teenagers, they have a love of stuff. They even don't need what they like, but who's praying for them? And even in our churches, we develop special programs for children and teenagers. They go to camp. We have youth workers, but how about prayer of the parents and the grandparents for our next generation?

So, I've been praying for a year to God, if it was his purpose to bring that ministry to the Netherlands and maybe to Europe, and in several ways God showed me that it was good because I knew prayer is not something, you just start like an event. It's more, it's, it's, it's about perseverance. So how that's how it started.

Bruce: And where does that name come from? Who is, Who is Deborah?

Saskia Van Helden: Deborah. Deborah is a courageous woman from the Bible and the Book of Judges, chapter five. We read about her. She is a judge and she's a very wise woman, and it was a time that more than once the Jewish people were disobedient. And to bring them back to God, God all the time sent them an enemy to attack them and then they returned to God.

So during the period of Judge Deborah again, Israel was disobedient and God sent the people of Canaan by King Jabed and Cesera commander. So the Israelites, they get scared again and they complained and whined. And so God said to Deborah, there's a man who can be the victor of the Canaanite people, but Barrack, he didn't dare to go alone.

And Deborah, she was the woman that went with him. And on the front of the army, she did battle herself, but she was on the front and she stand up as a mother of Israel to represent God in this society again, and that's why our ministry is called after this courageous woman.

Bruce: It does take courage to be able to step out into new areas that God has prepared you for, but you may not even be aware of it. And and then to be able to to be called to that. So Wake Up Deborah and you have a book that that you have written that describes the ministry and the ministry of, of older people praying for younger people. And that book has been now translated into how many different languages?

Saskia Van Helden: I think it's about seven or eight different languages. It's the Book of Faith, Prayer, and Teenagers. And while some countries follow, and I think the book is, is attractive because it's a very practical book. Many people do not know how to, how to pray regularly for their children or grandchildren. They, they treat God a bit like Santa, They think I've prayed today for their wellness and their health and good friends. What shall I pray tomorrow? But praying for young ones is having a relationship with God, what God is doing in their lives, and also having a living relationship with the children themselves to know what's important in their lives. So Faith, Prayer, and Teenagers encourages people to, to pray for the young ones.

Bruce: The thing that I was amazed of was that in fact, that that ministry of Wake Up Deborah has not yet crossed the oceans to come to America. And so hopefully through the Retirement Reformation we can change that. But then you realized, I think that there was another problem, if I remember our conversation well. And, and the problem had to do with the teenagers themselves. So what was that problem and what, and how did you, how did you step into beginning to answer that?

Saskia Van Helden: Wake up Deborah is active in the Eastern European countries. There is a collaboration between churches, Youth for Christ, and day center. In the day center, children come from broken or poor families. After school, they'd get a meal. Nice program. And the church members who are involved, they adopt the children to pray. So there's a praying relationship between children and church members, and we trained at churches and we trained prayer coordinators how to do that. But after a while we were thinking, how about teaching young teenagers, how to pray?

And I was looking just around the globe where manuals or educational books about learning how to pray and I couldn't find much materials. So we developed Open Up. That's a course, a prayer course for young teenagers and it's not only a book like going to school. Learning math or, or language and now learning to pray.

No, it's about a living relationship with God in a very nice interactiv e program. And there are animations to, to show the youth leaders how it works. There's a prayer hand poster because we use a method of the prayer hand. There's a prayer diary as a tool for the children and the teenagers to learn how to pray. So it's a, a whole package.

Bruce: One of the things that has, has been true throughout the generations - that the Dutch people are very systematic, very organized, and very perceptive, and you certainly demonstrate that. Cause when we think about the three different groups that are now connected together in this.

We have those who are doing the, the praying As, as older people praying for younger people. We have the learning of the younger people and the, that connectivity. And then, then we have the engagement of the church. And so when you think of that as a, as I would as a three-legged stool that are three legs.

And so we have the seniors. The older people, we have the younger people and we have the church. And to the degree to which that we are able to bring those generations and organizations together, I think is going to, has the opportunity to dramatically impact our culture and not only change people's lives, but change the lives of whole families and whole countries.

So I want to thank you for the perceptiveness that you have, for how you are bringing this together. And we just look, look forward to partnering with you and being able to spread that message even further because we know that that would be part of God's heart. And so we thank you because we know that you are part of his heart. So, thanks for being with us.

Jim: Yeah. Saskia. Before we, before we say goodbye, I got a another question for you. So you know, in the States, people retire somewhere between 55 and 70 years old per se. Not always, but sometimes - Bruce is still going. He's 81. With Wakeupdeborah.org, wakeupdeborah.org. It sounds like a woman's group just for women. Are men invited to pray for their children as well?

Saskia Van Helden: Yeah, very good question. It used to be a movement of women. Like in Latin America, we know women are militant. They come up for their children. But we say when Wake Up Deborah went around the globe, it's also a movement for men. So that's why we are talking about prayer parents, not only Deborahs or whatever the name can be of men, Daniel or what, but it's for men and it's very good point because we try to connect girls to women and boys to men in the prayer connection.

Jim: Very good.

Saskia Van Helden: So it's very important that fathers and grandfathers also pray and let their children know that they're praying. That's also important.

Jim: Saskia Van Helden, thank you so much for calling in all the way from the Netherlands for being a part of iRetire4Him and thanks for sharing your story and the ministry of WakeUpdeborah.org. Thank you Saskia.

Saskia Van Helden: Blessings for you.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly, we don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book.

Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore Retirement Reformation.org. That's RetirementReformation.org.

Jim: Welcome back to iRetire4Him with Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, right here on iRetire4Him as we talk about ageism and how do we see its effects across our country?

And our first, in part one of this three part podcast, we talked about what is ageism? And Bruce did a great job defining that and, and now we're talking about, you know, how do we see its wide ranging effects on our culture? And Bruce, I wanna break it down. I found some articles that indicated three major types of ageism, and I'd love if you would describe it. So what is institutional ageism and how have you observed it in action?

Bruce: So when we talk about, when we break them down in that way, which I think is a pretty way to help us to understand it, I think it's pretty clear. So institutional ageism - when an institution, a church, a church, a church, a business, an organization of some kind, but an institution perpetuates ageism through its actions and policy.

We see conversations with mission organizations all the time where, well, when is it that you need to retire as a missionary? And the conversation, Is it 65? Is it 67? Is it 70? Is it 75? When is it? But inherent in there, it says there is a point when your capacity is diminished and you no longer have value, and we are going to institutionalize that age. After that age you are now old. And it has impacts in lots of different ways. You, you'd like to think that those things aren't, that it doesn't work that way. But that's the way it works. A second one...

Jim: How about interpersonal ageism? Talk to me about that.

Bruce: Yeah. That's in that, that area of, of social interaction. And so, you know some of it's, it's nice and it's subtle. You know, Judy and I go to the gym most mornings around five o'clock, and as we're walking in, there's always others that are walking in and, and if there's someone else walking with us, typically a male, he will hold the door for me as well as for Judy. And so he, what he's saying is, I realize that you're old and you may need some help, and I want to give deference to that. So it's a very nice or out of respect for your wisdom and the years you've walked before me on this planet. I hold the door open to you out of respect because that would be why I would hold the door for you and I would appreciate that and, and we would become friends.

However, in those social environments, it's also, you know frankly, after I sit for a couple hours, I'm a little stiff. So when I'm getting up out of the chair, it's like, hmm, hey, you know, it's a struggle a little bit to get up. So if I'm somewhere where there are other people around, you know, somebody will grab my elbow or something. And I don't wanna smack 'em one, but on the other hand, I appreciate it. And, so there's that, that social suggestion that there is less than. And sometimes with the greatest of heart, but the message is still there. The message is still there and it still does impact. So what's the third one you want to ask me about?

Jim: I wanna talk about internalized ageism and how you're dealing with it personally.

Bruce: One of the true, one of the pieces of wisdom that God has imparted to me is in almost every situation to ask the question, let's figure out what's true and then let's go from there. So that whole process of figuring out what is true is, is really healthy because it's the platform for solving a problem or getting a greater understanding or whatever it may be. So internalized ageism - that example that I used in our last segment. The decision that Judy and I made to not go on that wind jammer cruise is part of internalized.

Now, in that case, it was not negative, it was just a realization of what is true. However, if you are not asking what is true, but how do I feel or how am I impacted or how am I being feel like I'm being taken advantage of? And those internalized feelings direct your path and change. I'll give you another example. One of the things I've learned about us older folks is, well, you know, when, when you're with a group, say in their thirties or forties, and there's a problem, let's say a church: you need to clean up the church or whatever it may be, and ask for volunteers and, you know, a bunch of people will volunteer.

You bring a bunch of seniors together, give 'em the same story and they have the capacity to, let's say that it's a group that has the capacity to do that, you ask 'em and nobody raises their hand. Interestingly enough, when you go to them individually and say, Hey, we need to clean up the church yard. I've got a couple of rakes. I'm gonna come over on Saturday afternoon. Would you come over and spend an hour or two with me and you know, let's clean this place up? Oh, I'd love to. Why is it that change? And, and that person who says exactly what I just, that older person who didn't raise his hand but was happy to do it, is because there is a hesitancy that comes from, Well, am I capable and do they really want me?

And so that individual conversation, so if you want seniors to do things, you gotta go ask them. And by and large, they're happy to do it. And they're capable of doing it, and maybe they're the best person to do it.

Jim: So what you're saying that internalized ageism can actually be just, we're believing the lies that are being spoken about the, the older generations, and it's not necessarily true about me. So in other words, I have, you know, I got a father that still climbs ladders at almost 90 years old. I ask him not to because I've seen him get a little wibbly on the ladder, but it doesn't mean he can't climb a ladder. We gotta study what's true because for him. Maybe climbing a ladder's still okay, but for somebody else climbing a ladder's not okay at 90. And it's, So what you're saying is we need to know what's true about us and not believe the lies that are spoken as a big blanket over chronologically superior people. Is that what you're saying?

Bruce: That is exactly what I'm saying and well said.

Jim: Well, you know, Martha and I still have the privilege of having all of our folks still alive, and we've seen how they've had to adjust and deal with the, the truth of their situation. So, Bruce, how does studying ageism, the reality of ageism help us as Christ followers - as Christ following retirees - to overcome it? How's, how's this study helping us to move forward?

Bruce: Well, you know, part of it, I think, Jim, and this is, it's in a lot of parts of our Christian walk and our Christian life, where does our guide come from? And in so many different issues, does our guide for life and ministry come from our culture? Or does it come from our father? Does it come from the principles laid out in the Bible? Does it come from our prayer conversation? Does it come from a community of believers that in fact can be supportive of each other? Where does it come from?

What, what determines our actions? You've heard me say often that you know the definition of retirement of our culture is, you know, it's one homogeneous period. It's all downhill mentally and physically, and then you die. And the goal is to jam as much as leisure as you can in the middle.

Well, if you're going to buy into that, if that's gonna be your guide, that will lead you to, you know, a lifetime of looking for meaningless leisure in a place like Sun City and my Sun City friends are gonna throw rocks at me. But do that as it may. Does it lead you there or does it lead you to a point of, hey, connecting with your grandchildren, of praying for younger people, of being able to support either the widow or the single mom in your church?

Being able to respond to and to look at things through the lens of the fruit of the spirit. And when we look at, we look at things through the lens of the fruits of the spirit, boy, if that's the values that we're bringing to our life and to our decision making, contrast 'em with what culture is doing. We got a chance for meaning and purpose.

Jim: And we're gonna go into that a lot deeper in part three of our ageism series. We talked about how our faith helps us overcome and really power past ageism and its effects on us. Bruce, great conversation. So excited that the Retirement Reformation online at retirementreformation.org has so many resources. They could just encourage all of the, those folks that are listening to the show today and, and just living out their faith where they go and to, and to believe the truth that God speaks into us instead of believe the lies that the culture likes to perpetuate. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: Always good to be here and with our audience. And hopefully the audience is really connecting with these things that are so vitally important.

Jim: For sure. You've been listening to iRetire4Him, The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg, of course, Retirement Reformation's own founder Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth. And experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money, and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the Manifesto at RetirementReformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation so you can say iRetire4Him.

Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 72: Ageism and the Christ-Following Retiree

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already into retirement, you've tuned into iRetire4Him the Mouthpiece of The Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. Check us out online Retirement Reformation.org. RetirementReformation.org, and of course on Facebook retirement reformation.

Ageism. It affects everyone. Children as young as four years old, become aware of their culture's age stereotypes. From that age onwards, they internalize and use these stereotypes to guide their feelings and behaviors towards people of different ages.

They also draw on cultures age stereotypes to perceive and understand themselves, which can result in self-directed ageism at any age. However, ageism can change your view, can change how we view ourselves. It can erode solidarity between generations, can devalue or limit our ability to benefit from what younger or older populations can contribute and can impact our health, longevity, and wellbeing, while also having far reaching economic consequences.

Ageism also increases risky health behaviors such as eating an unhealthy diet, drinking excessively, or smoking. Ageism has serious and wide ranging consequences for people's health and wellbeing among older people. Ageism is associated with poorer physical and mental health, increased social isolation and loneliness, greater financial insecurity, decreased quality life and premature death.

Today we begin a series on ageism and the Christ following retiree. Why? We believe how we see ourselves is directly related to the messaging we absorb on a daily basis. If that messaging isn't from a biblical worldview that honors and values the participation of retired folks, that message can be harmful.

Our three part series on ageism and the Christ following retiree will focus first on understanding ageism, then on how ageism impacts the world around us. And finally, in our third podcast, we'll focus on how our faith can help us overcome this age discrimation. To help us gain a proper understanding of ageism Bruce Bruinsma from the Retirement Reformation is here to add his personal insight and expertise on the subject. Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim, it's always good to be with you and I'm excited about this three part series. It's, it's you know, not exactly the most positive thing to talk about. But I think the results of our conversation will, will help our audience to be able to navigate some things that are really important for us to both understand and to be able to deal with.

Jim: Well, and I think that we will be able to turn this into a positive conversation because we're talking about it in the light of scripture. So, Bruce, why don't you just define for us first, what is ageism?

Bruce: I was in the mall the other day and there was a mom and probably a four or five year old boy and their grandfather. And I don't know what their conversation had been up until that point in time, but the young man, the boy turned to his mother and he kind of looked up at her and says, Is grandpa old?

And she turned to him and said, Well, yes he is. And that was kind of the end of the conversation. And so here we have three relationships. We've got mom who was probably in her early thirties. We got the young man who's four, and we got grandpa looked like he was probably in his late sixties somewhere. And so the relationship between the three now has a little bit of a shadow over it because the little boy knew enough to be able to say I think I know what old is and to ask his mother is, is that an example of it?

And, the mother's affirmation that yes, he's old and stopping there - you have another person. So who is impacted in that conversation and how are they impacted? So what we have is a systemic communication.

And understanding by different age groups of something that has a slightly negative tinge to what it is. Now, it could have gone the other way. It could have been grandfather saying to mom, Is that little guy worth anything? He would not have asked it that way.

Jim: No, he wouldn't. He's a grandpa.

Bruce: He's a grandpa. So this is a little kid who doesn't know anything. Here's a mom in the middle, and here's a grandpa on the other end of this. And so the stereotypes that exist in our culture with each and every age. So for example, calling your grandson Pip squeak, he begins to understand that, Well, I don't know what a pip squeak is, but it doesn't sound very good.

That sounds like a mouse to me, and that's not very good. On the other hand, when the grandson is asking, is he old? Does that mean he's in some way knows that, that there is less value there and that old has a a definition. a meaning? And so the systematic reinforcement of cultural stereotypes, in particularly what we're talking about, the ageism part, has inherent in it the suggestion of increasingly decreased value.

Jim: Bruce, when did you, when did you learn about ageism? When's the first time you really understood this?

Bruce: Well, as I began to do some research for some of my books, I, I came across a really great article that talked about it, and I went, Huh. That's really true. And that began a little bit of a journey. So that was about three, four years ago. And, and so I'd never put the pieces together to really understand how that worked and what the impact of that was on both the older generation as well as the younger generation. And so I'll give you another example because we're talking about a systematic and a systemic - which means built into the cultural view of someone else.

So for example, in our politics today, we use the word immigrants and the person can use the word immigrant and referring lovingly to the activity of their parents coming over and all the wonderful things that happened. Or it could be talking about the immigrants that are coming across our southern border and that we ought to do something about.

All right. Those are systemic kinds of perceptions. In our world we have those same issues. Let me give you a subtle one that happens: well, Bruce, well, when are you gonna retire? If I've been asked that one time, I've been asked that 50 times now, from an outside objective standpoint, Well, Pete's sake, the guy's 81 years old, you ought stop working some. That would be good for him.

And it may be done with a purest of heart, purest of intentions, but the message is, Bruce, you can't do what you used to do. When are you going to transition to doing nothing? And when you get asked that 20, 30, 40 times, then you start thinking, Well, huh, maybe they know something about me I don't. Maybe I need to really think about the roles that I'm playing now and can I really carry those out? I need to think about how has God prepared me for this stage? And maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. And that's, that's the thought process that goes in and it reflects our culture.

Jim: Well, I wanna dig deeper into this cuz there's multiple kinds of ageism out there in our world. But we're gonna come back in our next segment and have an interview with Sue Ruddick from DaySpring as she talks about her retired life after DaySpring and then back in segment three, we'll finish up this conversation on really defining ageism and how it impacts us. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg, and of course, the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. But please check us out online RetirementReformation.org. We'll be right back.

Outro: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us. Go to Retirement Reformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe, and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement Reformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: And welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As today we have another conversation with Sue Ruddick. She's a 12 year retired DaySpring employee - online, dayspring.com DaySpring.com. 12 years ago, Sue, you retired. And you mentioned to me offline, how when you retired, you didn't have a lot of prep time for retiring. Tell us a little bit about that story.

Sue Ruddick: Well, it was like okay, what do I do and how would I go about finding out what it is I'm supposed to do and why am I having these feelings and how do I deal with this? Is this normal? And so I was questioning God, you know, I don't know about this Lord.

Jim: So, I mean, I wanna hear the story. So you'd been preparing for retirement financially, right? Had you been saving up for retirement?

Sue Ruddick: Well, there's a story there, and because of our family situation with some of the children, we had not been able to save and prepare for retirement. And, and really my retirement came sooner than I had expected.

Jim: Okay.

Sue Ruddick: So financially we were not in a best situation. But that aside, it was like, you know, we talked a little bit about the emotions of the retirement. The sense of self accomplishment or accomplishment was not there, and all of these things were intertwined. Even though DaySpring is an incredible place to be, I didn't have that to shore me up. I didn't have that place to exercise what God had gifted in me.

Jim: So let's - so the process, so retirement was thrust upon you a little bit unexpectedly? How did you adjust?

Sue Ruddick: Actually, I think overall I adjusted pretty quickly, but it was a process and it was, it, God had to reveal some things to me. It's like the, the emotions of it that I needed to tend to that I have since found out are normal. That I wasn't just being a whiny person. That it was the lack of accomplishment, nothing to put myself into, feeling like God was through with me.

Jim: Let's describe those emotions though, Like how are you feeling? Was it anxiety, was it fear? I mean, describe those emotions because people listen to this podcast are going: yeah.

Sue Ruddick: It was depression. It was depression. It was loneliness. It felt like isolation. There was something down deep inside of me that was discontent. All of those negative things that began to pop up that, and some I was totally unfamiliar with, were not normally my personality, and yet they were there.

Jim: What are some of the questions you wish you had asked yourself before you retired?

Sue Ruddick: I would've thought through or asked how to prepare for moving to another fulfilling lifestyle, another phase of my life where I felt like it was going to be beneficial, not just for me, but for God's kingdom work. But what he has done is taken those negative things that I experienced in this adjustment period. He has birthed that into restoring joy. That was another thing that was a huge piece of this was restoring my joy.

Jim: Cause you seem like a joyful person. So you're saying when you retired and retirement was thrust upon you, Sue Ruddick wasn't joyful?

Sue Ruddick: Not exactly .

Jim: So if we brought your husband on and say, Okay, what was Sue like? How would he have described you?

Sue Ruddick: I don't know if I would even go there. ,

Jim: We'll call him after.

Sue Ruddick: Oh yeah, please. So, if I were helping somebody prepare for retirement, I would suggest that they read some books that tell them these are some things that you can expect are normal to work through.

This is where you go to find your source of fulfillment. Get involved in a Bible study, ask God to pour into you his love, his wisdom. Let him show you what he wants you to be doing. Is it volunteer work? Is it ministering to elderly parents? Is it, is it taking meals to shut ins? I mean, sometimes we overlook the obvious of what brings us fulfillment.

How has God gifted you? Has He given you the gift of hospitality? Bring people into your home and you don't have to have a full blown Bible study, but bring them in when they come through the door, do they just feel like this wonderful place to be? Do they sense God's spirit there? You can volunteer your time. You can get involved in a ministry, use what God has given you. He's given me health and strength and I'll say a sense of, of competency - lightly. And he will use you if you are willing. He wants to use you to further his kingdom. We wanna see results in eternity.

Jim: We need to give you a more time. You need to be preaching. Really. I love this. Okay, so I wanna capture a couple more thoughts from you though. All right. So your friends that retired before you, did you learn anything from them?

Sue Ruddick: No, not really, other than just watching them walk, kind of walk through some of the things, same things that I was.

Jim: But it didn't help prepare you though?

Sue Ruddick: No, it did not. I just, once I was in it, I began to see these things in other women and before I hadn't really paid that much attention. I didn't associate that with post-employment.

Jim: Post retirement syndrome.

Sue Ruddick: Yeah.It's there.

Jim: It's a syndrome, PRS. We got it - post retirement syndrome. Okay. You mentioned that your husband - on a previous podcast, you mentioned that your husband retired a couple years after you. Talk to us about that dynamic. I didn't tell you I was gonna ask this question - too bad.

Sue Ruddick: Did I - I'm sorry. Did I roll my eyes?

Jim: You did roll your eyes. They were very loud actually. You rolled your eyes out loud. Because a lot of people talk about the dynamic. Okay, when one spouse retires, that's fine. But when the second one retires, it creates a different dynamic at home. Talk to us about how you and your husband worked through that dynamic.

Sue Ruddick: Well, he needed, I needed, but he needed to have something to do with his time. And again, I saw him. He had no direction and he didn't really do anything for a couple of years other than we had five acres and there was always things to do on our little ranch. And we both still had elderly parents, which required some time and so he was in and out quite a bit. But I found infringement on my time. My time. My hobbies.

Jim: He infringed on your time.

Sue Ruddick: Yes. Because he was there and I felt like...

Jim: He was needy.

Sue Ruddick: Well, yeah, but he didn't, he didn't think he was. But he was.

Jim: But he was struggling with the things that you struggled with, but you'd worked through.

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: But you had to help him work through.

Sue Ruddick: But it was very different for him too.

Jim: Well, he's a guy. Yes, he is. And it is different. He, when he got up in the morning, I would say, What are you gonna do? And he'd go, I don't know. Well, that's the worst thing you can have is no direction. And I had had some of that, but his was at a different level.

Sue Ruddick: I mean, that's kind of who, who guys are, I think. They've got to have something productive going on in their life. They need to be helping somebody or doing something that benefits the family or, or whatever.

Jim: Purpose.

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: You just need purpose.

Sue Ruddick: You do. And God builds that into us.

Jim: So what have, what's different about your marriage relationship today? Now that you're both retired, you both have worked through just yuckiness of figuring out retirement. What, what has God shown the two of you together? I mean, are you guys doing something together in retirement that you didn't get to do before retirement?

Sue Ruddick: We, yes, we spend more time together in, in projects at church and he volunteers a lot of time at church and, and does security and he's on the building team and so we do a lot of those things together.

And family. We have, between the two of us, we have a blended family of six children and 14 grandchildren.

Jim: That's a lot.

Sue Ruddick: And they're scattered from Western Montana all the way to Georgia. And so we, our emotions, our mental emotions and everything, we expend a lot in family situations because with that many children and that many grandchildren, we spend a lot of time developing those relationships. We want to impact our grandchildren, and so we have to work at it. It does not come natural. I mean, not very many grandchildren will say, Oh, I wanna go spend some time at, at grandma's house. So we have to be the initiators of some of that. So we do a lot of that together. We travel a little bit, but not as much as we would like. But in a sense, our hearts are more drawn to what is it God wants to take us to do to speak the word to somebody.

Jim: Mm. Last question and really this is a question for you to share your heart with those listening today that are prepping for retirement or just brand new into retirement. Some words of encouragement.

Sue Ruddick: I would say there is life after you retire. Ask God for the wisdom He has told us in James that he will, that he will give you the wisdom. He will not scold you for asking him what you need to do, but develop - ask him for the purpose. What is that purpose he has for you? He will give it to you. He will fulfill it and you will love working for the Lord.

Jim: Fantastic. Sue Rudick, thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today, for sharing your story and for just giving old plugs there for Dayspring. Check 'em out online. Dayspring.com. And Sue, if there's ever anything we could do at Retirement Reformation, we need to capture some of what you've got and help some of these ladies. Maybe we need to bring you, need to suck into Retirement Reformation a little bit, I think.

Sue Ruddick: Hmm? Yeah.

Jim: All right. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him. Hang on.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of The Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years.

Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore RetirementReformation.org. That's Retirement Reformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Bruce and I are talking today about ageism. Bruce, I, I loved the way you summarized and just introduced us to the subject in the first segment, and, I loved our conversation with Sue Rudick as she talked about the impact of retirement on her life. Can you give us some, what, what are the different kinds of ageism out there?

Bruce: Well, I think there's a ageism that talks about our physical capacity to be able to do work. There's one category of ageism. Another one talks about our mental capacity to be able to grasp new concepts to be able to see new directions or just to remember where we put our keys. And then there is a, a third group that talks about just the general deterioration of us as people in terms of being able to deliver value to society.

Jim: Hmm. Wow. And you did a great job explaining, giving us some examples from which things you've observed in the world and read about in the world. Let's talk, let's get personal. Your, your folks are gone now, but how did ageism impact your parents? What did you observe?

Bruce: I observed on my dad, who was a college dean. Also, I've been a professor. He was an academic and a great musician by the way. But when it was time for him to retire as Dean of the College of Arts and Humanities at San Jose State, I could sense with him in the conversations that we had of his really struggling with what's next and to find what's next that could reinforce his sense of value to himself.

Wonderfully what happened was that the, that a think tank that was supported by the Prince of the Netherlands reached out for him and asked him to come to the Netherlands with my mom, and spent a couple of years doing some research over there.

And, and that was just a great affirmation for him that he still had value. It was in a little different context, a little different way, but it was something that was important to him and that they enjoyed. So that transition was a good one when they came back after a couple of years in the Netherlands, and then then it was, well, huh, what's next?

And so again, that sense of boy, is the value that I had as a dean and do the value that I had as a researcher, how does that value translate into that next stage of my life? And so they were attending a church in Sun City, actually Sun City West, Arizona, which is where they lived. That's another conversation.

But they asked him to be the director of worship for their church. So now we have a dean, we have a researcher, and now a director of worship, and he threw himself into that. He had an absolutely great choir. He had about 60, 70 people and they were all in their, you know, late fifties to eighties. So the voices were a little marginal, but boy, the music that he could pull out of them hmm was, was really quite fantastic. So again, an affirmation of value he had that he could deal with for himself.

Jim: But he was constantly pushing against the culture that was telling him just to chill out, check out and move to Sun City in Arizona, which is where people go to die. I mean, that's really, I mean, if you haven't been to Sun City, I mean, I went to the first Sun City in Arizona where they painted all the tree bark white so that they wouldn't ab absorb it.

There was fur trees in everybody's front yards. I mean, it was, it was just full of people that were retired that were told, go somewhere else.

Bruce: So then during one of the rehearsals for the choir, he had a stroke and, you know, that then made that next level of change and he, he went to becoming much more dependent.

And two years later he died. So there was that process and there were three of them where there was an affirmation for him that he could do. And then of course he had the physical issue that came. And I think in some ways, we all look for ongoing affirmation of the value that we have. We sometimes we try to cover that feeling of a lack of affirmation by painting a picture of the leisure and the Sun City West kind lifestyle that, that we have.

And we say, Well, that still gives me, that still gives me meaning. And I would suggest that what it does, it gives you value not meaning. And so this whole ageism issue of people's perception of you, your perception of yourself, and the action steps that you decide to take makes a huge difference in how we live in any one of the last three stages of our life.

Jim: So talk about you personally and, and maybe Judy as well, if she'll allow you to speak. How has ageism impacted you beyond the fact that people keep asking you, Bruce, when are you gonna retire? I mean, you know, how else have you seen it?

Bruce: Well, for example, I was having breakfast with two senior executives of a ministry yesterday, and we were deep into a conversation about their strategy and some of the things that they wanted to do, and those are ways that I could help. And we had a pretty dynamic conversation. Some on the course of that conversation the, the person across the table from me mentioned that they were 63 and retired. Now, they were doing work for ministry, but 63 and retired. And she kind of looked up at me and I said, Well, I'm 81. She said, You're what? You're 81? And in her voice was, How are you able? What are you doing in the role that you are playing in relation to us when you're 81 years old? Yet before she knew I was 81, there were three or four ideas and conversations that we had, and she's all excited. All of a sudden I'm 81 and she has to rethink that.

And so you can see how that. Plays itself out.

Jim: So her filter had shades in it already, Bruce.

Bruce: Her filter, had definitely had shades in it. Now let me give you the other side. Judy and I are gonna take a cruise on the main wind jammer. Those, those a big four basted scooners that go out of Camden and they go out in the islands. And we were all excited about that, made the reservation almost a year ago. So last night after the ball game, I thought, you know, I had to just check and see if there's. See if there's any reviews of these and there's, is there anything about them that I should know before we go in a couple of weeks? So I start reading the reviews and the first couple were all auditory and so on.

Then I read three or four that were long, that I went, Oh, I had no idea about that part of the activity. . And so as I read through that, when I got up this morning, I went, Judy, as Judy and I were going to work out, I said to her, I says, I got some reviews that you need to look at. And you need to look at it, and then we needed to talk.

So we looked at 'em, we talked. I called the company again, got some clarification, and as a net result of that, I said to Judy, I said, You know, dear, I think as much as I would like to do this and was looking forward to it, I, I think the reality of what it is has passed our experience capacity. And she said, You mean you don't want to go?

And I said, No, I don't mean that. I just don't think that we are going to be able to really appreciate and enjoy and engage with the activities in the context of what this ship is. So we talked and prayed about that for a little bit and agreed. And I called and canceled the trip. Hmm. And that was a definite impact of the age that we are.

And so finding what is true about where you are and what is what culture says you are and then being able to see what God says you are and being able to put that into a pathway of life, I think is all part of this ageism discussion. Because if we, we believe what culture says, man, oh man, we should be dead already.

Jim: Great summary, Bruce. Great conversation on, on what is ageism, and I can't wait. As we get deeper into our three part series, I'm really just hoping people flesh out how do they react to this? How do they move forward? And you've already given us a couple of examples, but how does our faith ultimately conquer this?

And we just encourage you all to just go out to the Retirement Reformation website, Retirement Reformation.org. There are tons of resources out there to help you walk proudly in your faith and in your life as a retired Christ follower. Check us out online RetirementReformation.org. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, The Retirement Reformation's own Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to Reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth. And experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money, and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 71: Questions to Ask Before and During Retirement, Part 3

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve, and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation - online RetirementReformation.org. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, and I'm joined today by the founder of The Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. We invite you to check us out online RetirementReformation.org, and also on our Facebook page, just type in Retirement Reformation and you'll find us.

Retirement. The process of prepping for and entering into retirement is daunting, to say the least. There's so many possibilities and so many ways to get it right and so many ways to get it wrong. As we've said so many times in this podcast, many retirees know what they're retiring from, but very few, I mean, very few know what they're retiring to. How can you make sure you're prepared for what's ahead? Well, you need to ask yourself a lot of questions.

Bruce Bruinsma is here today to lend some advice as we conclude our three part series: questions for prepping for retirement. Today we're gonna focus on eight questions we must answer in order to build in flexibility to our plans as we head into retirement. Why? Because life is unpredictable. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: It's always good to be here and I, I always love to talk about the topics that, that how do we deal with the surprises of life? What are the things that we need to consider so that we are prepared? Not with the answers to a specific problem or a specific opportunity or a specific challenge, but whatever it is, the one that God's going to bring, that will be a learning experience for us as well as a teaching experience for others.

Jim: So if you were to entitle the title for today, what kind of questions are we asking today?

Bruce: The questions that we're asking today I think are foundational questions. Questions that lay the foundation so that as the unexpected challenges as well as in the next steps in a plan, whatever they may be, that in fact we are prepared to, we have the foundation upon which to build the answer.

We have the, the, the wisdom of God that can guide us in these unexpected times because it's in the unexpected that we find fear, we find failure, we find depression. We find all of those things. Yet when you are prepared foundationally to deal with those issues, it gives you the opportunity to put into play those fruits of the spirit that we talk about.

Jim: So you're saying we need to be foundationally prepared to be so solid in our ability to be flexible?

Bruce: Right. That's a, that's a great, almost sounds like an oxymoron.

Jim: Yeah, it almost does. So why do we need to be flexible in retirement? I mean, I thought that's what - retirement's all about the planning, isn't it?

Bruce: Well, it, it is certainly about a plan and it is God's plan. But when we interpret that it's, it's, what I find is that I'm often able to take the next step and then the next three steps after, something comes in that changes what those steps are, and invariably those steps are better than the ones that I planned for. But if I didn't have a plan in place, even one, to be able to change from I'm gonna miss the opportunities that the Holy Spirit has for me.

Jim: I like that. If I didn't have a plan initially, one in order to change from, I wouldn't have a basis to get started. I, I love that. Gotta have a plan. Plans may change. We need to be flexible, but you need to have a starting point.

All right, So these eight questions we're gonna deal with today, and we're gonna deal with 'em quickly today. What's the first question for today?

Bruce: So, how are you gonna handle your time? And in there, for example just very quickly you know, when are you gonna spend time each day with God? When are you gonna read your Bible? When are you gonna pray? When are you gonna spend time with your wife? When you're gonna spend time with your kids?, You're gonna spend time with leisure. How are you going to do that? And identifying what those are and their priorities, because all of those lead to foundational pieces to who you are and what God has planned for you to do so that you can be flexible.

Jim: And it's so easy to get off track on that stuff because, Men's Bible studies - say you're a guy in your retirement. Men's Bible studies are at 6:00 AM in the morning. How are you gonna have quiet time before 6:00 AM? Maybe, great. That's a terrible time of the day to have a Bible study. You know, guys, go golfing early cuz it gets hot outside. I mean we, you do have to plan your time with God.

All right, so we're all gonna be busy in retirement and here's how I know that: all of my retired friends are busier now than ever. They're like, I can't imagine ever had time how I ever had time to work. What is the next question they should be asking?

Bruce: Well, the next question is how am I gonna prioritize my activities? So how am I gonna prioritize that time with God? How am I gonna prioritize that time with my spouse, my kids, my friends, whatever it may be that as I review that priority? I'm only gonna play golf once a week rather than four times a week?

I'm gonna join a men's group that plays, you know, 4:30 in the afternoon so the sun's going down rather than at six o'clock in the morning when the sun's coming up. Anyway, priority that's, that's, that's the second question. And then the next question I'll lead it on for you, okay, is, is what about leisure?

Where is that gonna fit into? It doesn't mean that it, it doesn't exist. It just isn't an answer for, you know, 14 hours a day. So where is leisure gonna fit in?

Jim: So you're saying retirement isn't all about leisure. But leisure should be part of your retirement.

Bruce: Absolutely. Absolutely. No question about it. .Judy and I are headed for Norway in a couple of weeks for a wonderful time of leisure and all kinds of good reasons for it. So leisure plays a role. It has value, it does not have meaning.

Jim: Ah. But it can have meaning. You can find meaning in your leisure, like on your way to your cruise with Judy you're gonna stop and see friends in Holland, or more in the Netherlands, depending on which way you call it. I mean, so you - there's priorities and there's purpose in it because you're spending time investing in a relationship with your wife, who will be one of your very good friends in heaven one day.

All right, so the first three questions. How will you handle your time? How will you prioritize your activities? And how about leisure? When we come back in the third segment, we're gonna finish the last five questions on dealing with flexibility in our retirement - questions we need to ask ahead of time, have a plan so that we can be flexible off of that existing plan.

You're listening to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Wait til you see and hear who our special guest will be during our second segment. Stay tuned.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources.

We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us. Go to Retirement Reformation.org and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe, and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today.

Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him. Retirement Reformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the Mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. You know, Bruce, every second segment of every show, we've always invited on a special guest.

We've had amazing guests, tons and dozens and dozens of guests who have shared the story of, of what God is doing in their lives in retirement. Bruce, the last four or five months of your life haven't been probably according to plan as you and I know, we've been friends for a number of years. We first met in 2017. You, you told me I'm gonna be 104, but about five months ago something happened that caused you to have to be a little flexible. What's going on in your life? How's, what's, what's going on in your life right now?

Bruce: What's going on in my life right now is, is I have four more days of radiation treatment for prostate cancer. And as I've shared with you, I really believe that God had told me that, that, that my planning horizon is gonna be 104 years. Then I have an mri. I go to the urologist office, he walks in. He said, Bruce, you've got prostate cancer. I'm sure it's metastasized, and you've got maximum of two to five years. We'll make it as good as we can.

The first thing I thought that came into my mind was, Whoa, whoa, time out. I got somebody who knows better than you do that it's 104, but you're telling me I got prostate cancer and it's two to five years. Oh my goodness. And so the dynamic tension that was there for the next 10 days As we did some additional tests, and so sitting down with Judy and, and going through the, you know, going through the emotions that come with these kinds of conversations, regardless of your faith those changes in plans and, and surprises our are difficult.

And so as Judy and I talked and said, Well, what, what are we gonna do? I said, Well, we've got about 10 days before we're gonna find out the answer on whether the cancer is metastasized or not. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna pray, We're gonna ask God for clarity. We're gonna pray for wisdom, and we're gonna pray that miracle, that in fact, the surety that the doctors had, that it has metastasized, which would lead to that death sentence of 2-5 years.

Jim: And let's just explain for those people who don't know what that word means, it means that it's spread to other organs or other places in your body. It's prostate cancer that's not just on the prostate. Just wanna make sure not everybody knows what that word is. It's a big word. I can't spell it either.

Bruce: So that is spread to the rest of the body, so, So let's had all these tests to find out the answer to the question, had it spread or not? Now here's the background to it. I'd had an MRI a year ago. That MRI showed that it was stage three, which means that that's, if it's stage four, that's pretty much the end.

So it was stage three and, and, and the doctors had not looked at that MRI or evaluated it. So a whole year had gone by before. It was the first opportunity to determine or to find out that I had prostate cancer and that it was stage three. When in fact they woke up and went back and looked at that. That was the reason.

They just assumed that if it was stage three a years, a year ago, it's gonna be stage four today. So that was the medical and the reasonable kind of expectation. So our prayer was either that, you know, God and his angels would run around my body and grab all those little pieces of cancer and stuff 'em back into the prostate.

Or in fact, it miraculously had never metastasized or had not spread. And so we had 10 days there. It was, That was hard. That was hard. And the implications of one's...

Jim: well, let's, let's just stop there for a second. 10 days. We'll get the answer in 10 days. We gotta wait for the test results. What kind of emotions we're going through your mind?

Bruce: Oh my goodness gracious. The whole range of emotions.

Jim: Well describe em for us.

Bruce: Yeah, I will. Sure. Fear. Concern for Judy. Her concern for us questioning and wondering is the, is what I heard from the Holy Spirit, did I really hear that? Or is that just something I wanted to hear? And so all the human questions,

Jim: What about Judy there? What about Judy? Because she's your best friend, You've known each other 60 years. What kind of, what kind of emotions did she express? Cuz this was, you know, you're, you've been her Superman all along.

Bruce: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's encapsulated in one comment that she made. She says, you know, if you die, I'm gonna move into a group home.

In other words, not stay in the house that we're in now. And I thought, Wow. Oh, Huh. And, and so the, the concern that she had, the fear that she had and when something dramatic is happening to you, it's really not so much you, it, it was, If that was the answer, I was fine. I didn't think it was gonna be the answer because I was pretty clear what I thought I had heard God say.

And I had no idea how that was all gonna get worked out, . And so I just thought to myself, you know, wow, here's just another step of faith because I don't know.

Jim: Right? So those 10 days passed. What did the doctors say?

Bruce: So I took all the tests that they had me take, and you're in these machines and on and on. So I, I, Judy and I are in his office. And now this is the same guy that I just walked in and said, You know, you got two to five, you got cancer and you know, essentially you're gonna die. He walks in and he, this time he sits down, which I thought was a good step.

Jim: Does that one, he freak you out to me? That would freak you out.

Bruce: Yeah. He sits down and, and I, I wasn't sure whether it was sit down to give me the affirming news that in fact, yes he was right or the miraculous news that he was wrong. And it turned out to be the miraculous news that he was wrong and that in fact that miracle was there. I got all choked up like I am right now, and Judy was crying and then we started to laugh. It was the reflection of joy.

Jim: That miracle being that it was still stage three or that it was only stage two?. What was the miracle?

Bruce: No, that it was stage three. That it had not, it had not spread. And he said, I, I, I can't explain to you why that would be true.

Jim: And you said, hmm, maybe I can explain, Doc. Let me sit down and talk to you about this man that I know named Jesus.

Bruce: And I, I did say to him, I said, Well, I said, I think what you're delivering is God's answer to our prayer. And he could have answered it in a totally different way, and that would've been fine, but he chose not to. And so as I tell audiences, and now I had to plan it for myself that if you're here, God's still got a plan for you and he is not done with you yet. That was the, that was the message that was going through my mind.

Jim: So flexibility, as we've talked about flexibility. In retirement, you face cancer where I know six months ago that hadn't even crossed your mind.

Bruce: No, I've never been in the hospital. I've never had a broken bone. Never been sick. So I had to wait till 81 to get that or have that.

Jim: What's the one thing that you believe you will change because of this diagnosis and these treatments you've been going through for months now? What's the one thing you think will change? And then we'll get back to our conversation on flexibility questions.

Bruce: One word. Urgency.

Jim: Okay. We're talking about the prostate. So a lot of guys on the listen to the show are going, Really? No, but that's not what you mean. Bruce.

Bruce: What I mean is the urgency that what God has planned forming in the, in the years to come, to address those issues or to take those actions with a, with an increased, With a higher urgency with, instead of saying, Well, yeah, I guess I could do that tomorrow.

No, do it today. When I'm with someone who is not a Christ follower and I say, Well, maybe I ought to have two more breakfast with them before I suggest that we have a spiritual conversation. Urgency. Let's have that conversation today. When I'm mentoring or counseling with people, the ability to be, the willingness to be transparent, that's part of urgency and the willingness to be direct and not to sugarcoat something in such a way that, that the people or group that is hearing the message can misinterpret it or think that it's not what it is that I, that I'm talking about. And so I've never been indirect , but, but now there's an urgency to be wise, transparent, and direct.

Jim: Bruce, I can't wait as we continue these podcasts through the years, for us to follow up on this conversation as God has been working in your life and he just took, we know that God uses all of the experiences that we go through not to tear us down or destroy us, but to take us from who we are to who God can use more effectively with the mission that he's put on our lives. So I can't wait to see what is next and why he allowed this little blip in your life. Bruce, thanks for sharing transparently about your journey with cancer. We we're just grateful as an audience, we're all grateful.

Bruce: Good. Well, it certainly is, has enhanced my journey. Hopefully just hearing part of the story will enhance the the lives of some of our listeners also.

Jim: You're listening iRetire4Him. We'll come right back with the rest of the questions we need to ask about being flexible in retirement.

Break: You're listenngi to iRetire4Him, The Mouthpiece of Retirement Reformation. Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book.

Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him Is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore: RetirementReformation.org. That's RetirementReformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Please, as always, we just recommend you check us out online at RetirementReformation.org. Bruce, again, thank you for sharing your story during segment two of the show.

Let's get back to our questions on flexibility in this final section of today's. show We're gonna get personal. So what's the next more personal like, we can get a lot more personal. What's the next question? The, the questions that we should be asking?

Bruce: I think the question and, and it's, it's kind of two parts. But it starts with that planning process that we've talked about often. That there needs to be a plan. Doesn't mean that the plan that is going to evolve, but is it, is the direction for us to be able to take the next step for then God to be able to, What's the old adage? Oh God can't steer a parked car.

So let's not be parked. And these next two questions kind of fit into that non-park thought process. What is your plan and how do you organize your spiritual growth activities and your personal growth activities? So we're talking about intentionally taking steps to continue to build that foundation so that in fact, when the issues of life show up, like the ones in my life that we were talking about, you have a foundation upon which to respond and to and to be able to find what God wants you to learn as a result of those. So those would be the next two. They're both to deal with planning one, your spiritual growth and the second one, your personal growth.

Jim: But, but aren't they really the same thing? Isn't personal growth and spiritual growth the same thing?

Bruce: They are, They certainly play off each other and are integrated. But I do think they are a little bit different. In the spiritual growth I'm, I'm really asking the question about how is my relationship with God gonna impact my relationship with others? On the personal growth is what is it that I have to learn? And the learning can be the, the learning can be how to be a better speaker.

The learning can be how, how to be a better writer. How I, how to be a better mentor, how to be a better you pick, right? And so on and so on. It's how to be a better in the spiritual journey. It's, it's how my relationship with God and his wisdom to impact my relationships.

Jim: Those are great questions. So what is the, what is your plan and how will you organize your spiritual growth activities? What is your plan and how will you organize your personal growth activities? All right. What's a great question we need to ask is we talk about flexibility. One of the things we don't know about in our retirement years is our health. What's a great question to ask?

Bruce: Yeah, I think just a question. How am I gonna stay in shape?

Jim: Well, I'm a shape. Roundy is a shape. Isn't round a shape?

Bruce: Round is a shape. Yes.

Jim: We've gotta look at our heads. We got the same shaped heads: round.

Bruce: But how am I gonna stay in shape? That's really critical. I'll give you a personal one right now. Playing off in the interview we just had is that part of the, part of the treatment for the cancer is what they call hormone treatment.

What that means is that they take your testosterone down to zero. When they take your testosterone down to zero, all your muscles atrophy. And so when in that context, being in going to the gym when you're tired and you don't wanna go, to be able to maintain that degree of, of shapeness is is absolutely critical.

 There are so many friends that we all have that, you know, they spend 90% of their time either at the feeding trough or the TV trough. And they're just going to heck in a hand basket. And so if you're going to be prepared to respond to God's call in your life, you gotta be prepared financially, but you also need to be prepared physically.

Jim: All right, so let's talk about our families. Our families are always growing cuz we have kids and they have kids, and those kids have kids. But in today's world, our families are growing and moving all over. How do we consider them into our retirement?

Bruce: You've got two issues there. Number one, where are they on your important scale? But then number two, I think the question is, where do they fit into your schedule? How are you going to do that? So I'll give you an example. After my dad died and my brother died it was a major transition in my mom's life. She had been a caregiver for the prior five years. Two people that were very close to her, obviously her husband and her son both died now.

She was at a point of transition and I thought to myself, Hmm, she lived in Phoenix, we lived in California. I said, What can I do to support her at that distance that will fit into my schedule? And I, and, and, and the Holy Spirit gave the answer, said, Well, you could call her every day. So, Well, I, I really, I got a really busy schedule, man. I don't know if I can, Well, let me think about that. And for 15 years, every day that I was in the country, we spoke.

Jim: Wow, that's precious. So the question is, where do you, Where does family fit into your schedule? You know, Bruce, the final question. Retirement can be a time of life filled with wonder, but it could also be filled with loneliness and depression. I've seen that, cause I've lived in Florida for 20 years and I see a lot of people struggling with that. What question do we ask to make sure that we avoid the negative, Avoid the loneliness? Avoid the depression?

Bruce: As we've talked often the, the typical response of it's way too many people is that, you know, what are you gonna do in retirement? The answer is nothing. Nothing, that we are focused totally on ourselves. That's what nothing means. Then the question becomes, what is the antidote to nothing? And the antidote to nothing is finding meaning, meaning and purpose. And the way you find meaning and purpose is turned from inward.

From inward to outward. And so where will you find meaning and purpose? Where will you turn outward? Where will you allow yourself to be used and where will you respond to God's call on where you are to be used? So where will you find meaning and purpose? Right in the midst of all of the other questions is the final one to reflect on and will give you the the north star of your life.

Jim: All right, to review our eight questions of today, really flexibility kind of questions as you prep for retirement. How will you handle your time? How will you prioritize your activities? How about leisure and where does that fit into your plan? What is your plan and how will you organize your spiritual growth activities? What is your plan and how will you organize your personal growth activities? How will you stay in shape? Where does your family fit into your schedule, and where will you find meaning and purpose?

Bruce, what a great conversation. What a great series, What a great way for us to be prepping for retirement. Thank you for just leading us down this path and, and giving us a just a bunch of great conversation about questions we should ask and be prepping for in retirement.

Bruce: Well, I look forward to our next series. And as we will continue to examine the answers to some of these questions and others, it would be my prayer and hope that, that for our listeners, if you haven't listened to all three of these podcasts in the series, that you'll go back and do that.

That you'll have your pad and pencil with you. You'll take down the, the questions and the choices and the issues, and you use that as a, a guide to begin to take you to that meaning and purpose. And be able to avoid the loneliness and the depression and everything else that comes along with that.

Jim: You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the Mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, Online RetirementReformation.org. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, we've had Bruce Bruinsma with us today, the founder of The Retirement Reformation. We're both Christ followers journeying from just that idea of just everyday retirement to the retirement reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve, and help others.

This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money. And invested all in the generations, both preceding and following you. The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement.

Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and Journey from retirement to Reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. Go to Retirement Reformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 70: Questions to Ask Before and During Retirement, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling God has been preparing in them. When the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And of course I'm joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online retirementreformation.org, that's retirementreformation.org. Out there on the website lots of fantastic resources for you. To buy, to read to access but also to be able to access past podcasts that we've recorded as this is number 70. So you got lots of different topics we've covered about retirement and prepping for retirement. We encourage you to, to check out our archives.

Retirement, the process of prepping for and entering into retirement. It's daunting to say the least. So many possibilities and so many ways to get it all. As we've said so many times in this podcast, many retirement retirees know what they're retiring from, but few, very few know what they're retiring to.

We're trying to help with that. How can you make sure you're prepared for what's ahead? Bruce Bruinsma here to help to lend some advice as we continue our three part series: questions for prepping for retirement. Today, we're gonna focus on six questions we must answer in order to be prepared for the choices we have ahead of us in our retirement. Bruce, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: One of the things that's that I learned a, a number of years ago from one of my, one of my really special mentors. Well, all mentors are special, but this particular one, cause he said, he asked me a question. He said, Bruce, who controls the conversation? Is it the person who's asking the question?

Or is it the person who is speaking and pontificating and answer. And I had to think about that for a minute. And I realized that it was the question asker that really controls the conversation. And that is what was, was part of the driving force of always saying, you know, what are the questions that we need to ask for? And, then the answers that we need to come up with. But it's the questions that will then give us the direction of where we're gonna go.

Jim: You just gave away all of my secrets that now people understand I'm a control freak, because as the interviewer I always get to ask the questions. So I take you wherever I want you to go, Bruce. Sorry. Okay, Bruce, in our retirement, we have choices. We have to make serious choices. Our ability to decide ahead of time, which way these choices will lean should help us be prepared. Right?

Bruce: Absolutely.

Jim: So what's the first choice question we need to ask?

Bruce: One. It is, it's both a choice and an understanding that circumstances will change your relationships. And so the first, the first question we have, how are you going to relate to your spouse or to your partner? And we can expand that to others also, but let's just leave it with spouse or partner, right at the moment. How are you going to relate to them given the change in the circumstances? From that career and maybe a year or two of nothing, and then realizing that there needs to be meaning and purpose.

And the relationship between you and your spouse will have changed. The circumstance will have changed. Therefore the dialogue perhaps needs to change. Also, how are you going to relate to them? You know, what's the story of the woman whose husband you know, finished his career. And he came home and he was home for about the first six months.

And he asked her, he said you know, what do you think I oughta do? She said anything that will get you out of the house. Our circumstance changes. And therefore our conversations change. And so the priorities that we have, the language that we use, the choices that we make for topic when we talk and when we don't. For example, Judy and I - our best conversations are when we're, we're out for a meal, could be at Denny's or could be at Ruth Chris, but wherever it is...

Jim: Well, you talk about the spectrum there. Denny's and Ruth Chris. Okay.

Bruce: That's a big picture, but in, in fact, we know that we need to continue to, to stay connected. We need to speak with each other and the conversations we're having now versus the conversations we had 15, 20, 30 years ago are totally different. And to be aware that that's true. Also that, you know, we're all also, you know, we're also very basically selfish.

And so we want to talk about ourselves, yet in a relationship it's asking the questions and listening carefully, which will build the relationship. So, how am I gonna relate to my spouse, my partner given the new set of circumstances is the first question.

Jim: Yeah. And it's a good one because you've committed to your spouse and that's really, we're assuming that you're, that you still get to be married into your retirement. It's very, very important. All right. So one thing for sure is that when we get to retirement, we're gonna have tons of available time. What is a good question to ask with regard to our time?

Bruce: Well, I just start with a real simple one. So what am I gonna do? Or what are you gonna do? Or what are we going to do? It's a very simple question, but man, it has complexities all around it. It has, because we know that 85% of Christ followers, when we ask them, what are you going to do in retirement? They come up with the answer of some version of nothing. You're going to do nothing. You don't need a plan. You don't need direction, you don't need anything.

You're going to do nothing. And so if that is the answer, then the problems that will arise because of that decision will be huge. And so what are we gonna do is the question. So, you know, maybe it is for the next six months. We're gonna, you know, buy a coach and we're gonna travel around the country. That's fine. My next question to you, if that's your answer, is while you're doing that, what are you going to do?

Jim: Yeah. What are, yeah, well, what are you gonna do? But then what are you gonna do then you have to ask that next question. If we know what we're gonna do, then we have to decide what?

Bruce: Where are you gonna do it? Is that gonna be around the country? Is that gonna be in our backyard? Is that gonna be around the world? And while we're doing that, is there anything that God can call us to, will call us to do, to begin to find, or be a part of a ministry that is, that can evolve out of that nothingness or the decisions of what we're gonna do and where we're gonna do it?

For example, if, if where I'm going to do it is going to be in Africa, there's a lot of ministry opportunities in Africa. While in fact we're discovering the beauties of Mount Kilimanjaro, while we're discovering the wonderful variety of the animals that God created, there is ministry for us to do so you can start to move from nothing to meaning even while you're answering those questions.

All right. So our first three question. As we look at the choices we need to make are how are you gonna relate to your spouse or partner? What are you gonna do with your time? And where are you gonna do it? When we come back in the third segment, we're gonna ask the second three questions as we look at the choices we need to make in retirement, but we're preparing for retirement. The questions we need to ask in order to prepare. This is a checklist. This is something you need to work through, and don't wait till the day before you retire to ask these questions.

You're listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, online at retirementreformation.org. We invite you to check it out online and we'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirementreformation.org, and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him. RetirementReformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Bruce, every second segment of every show, you always bring on a special guest that just shares a little bit of the heart of what God's got going on in their lives. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Oh, I've got a special guest. Matter of fact, he was so kind. He's on vacation with his family. And so he is joining us from from that vacation spot. So, John Decker, welcome and thank you for taking the time to to join with us.

John Decker: Thanks, Bruce and Jim, I enjoy being on with you today.

Bruce: That's very good. So let's just start with the basics. So give us a little bit of an executive history of John Decker and a little bit of the pathway that God has used to bring you to the point where you are now.

John Decker: Yeah, well, I think, you know, everyone can relate to the first days they went to college. And you know, I grew up as a you know, kind of in a Norman Rockwell situation, but not a believer.

You know, all things were good, but you know, by the time I was in college, the Vietnam war was going on and a lot of things. In fact, I went to Woodstock and a few weeks later I was in college. So my start to college you know, I was going in as a pre-med major. Some of the RA led us to the wrong people on the first night.

And it actually, the people that I met steered me in a path that really messed up my academic career. And it's, it's really too bad. If someone had told me about Jesus, cuz I didn't know the gospel, hadn't really heard what Jesus - who he is and what he has to do. Then my life would've been changed entirely.

But halfway through college I did become a believer and I remember the moment I received Christ and thought this is amazing. Nobody knows, you know, you can live forever. You can know God. You're set free. You're forgiven. Nobody knows this. We gotta start telling people cuz no one in my circle knew that Jesus was alive.

So we all told a lot of people. People came to Christ and that was a great start. But when I noticed, when we raised our own teenagers and then going to a Christian school, none of them really had that same fire and automatic desire to reach out to others for Christ. We just kinda live in the Christian bubble and be happy. So that was kind of what set things up and then I can go on from there.

Bruce: Yeah. So what was, what was that career between college and, you know, the teenage years of your kids? What about that 15 year period? What thought had doing, how did he prepare you?

John Decker: So, I worked for Lockheed Martin and I was in business development. We ended up having three kids. Now, I've got eight grandkids, which was great, but I was doing business development for around 17 years there. And then I did another 10 years with film broadband and fiber optics. But it was during that time that we noticed this dichotomy where the, the kids in our church, as I said, they didn't have that same automatic fire to bring someone to the Lord.

But also, you know, your listeners may remember the first days when they were on a college campus or they remember their kids or even their grandkids. And what was it like? You know, those first days are a time that really sets you up for the people that you're gonna walk with and be with. All the studies show that and we experience it.

So my wife and I began - launched an intervarsity fellowship at, at Syracuse university. And we noticed, yeah, the Christian kids were just hitting the scene. They planned to continue in the faith, but so many things happened and the people that they met, it just, it just drew them away. And it was such a shame.

And we also noticed that the nine believers were so hungry for something new. So we said, how can we bring these two forces together? The lostness and the waywardness of the Christians when they hit college, but also the super incredible opportunity.

Bruce: If I'm drawing out the threads of what I'm hearing you say, that there was a time with your own kids where you, you realized that that was true. But now you're in your retirement years for pity's sakes. When, when, how long ago did you retire and, and what, what do you do? Why are you doing this now?

John Decker: Well, I haven't actually retired because you know, who wants to stop serving the Lord? So, you know, for the last 12 years I've been chasing this idea that how can we make it different in America and really help all these kids when they land on a campus and help them take this wonderful opportunity of leading others to faith?

You know, the harvest is, is a bunch but the laborers have been too few. And we're losing all these laborers. So I decided rather than retire and sit back, I wanted to do something. So now I've been part of, one of the leadership and founding of a nonprofit called EveryStudentSent.org to make this happen. So that's been, that's been our exciting life now working. Gonna continue as long as we can.

Bruce: So I hear a thread that, you know, started with your kids and it continues on through. And so that that even during these retirement years nothing is not appealing and finding meaning and purpose. I sense a passion in you for this issue that God has planted for a long time. Can you describe that passion a little bit?

John Decker: Yes. I think the passion was... really comes to the point when I was first a believer and we saw that it was so easy in a sense to take that, that excitement and so on to transfer to someone else and see new people come to faith. And to us and, and all of our friends, that was what life was all about.

And the fact that the passion to, to, instead of seeing students go off to a life that they walk away from faith, that there's actually, there's this what we call the sweet spot those first few weeks on the college campus, if students are connected and prepared. And we've actually seen dorm revivals happen, where when one student shares with another, and it becomes like an explosion.

You know, we wanna change America, we need more laborers, but on a, on a person to person, you know, if you think about your own kids and grandkids and, and, and your own church and those around, by simply making this connection and having kids go to college with a team of friends they already know and, and be connected up with ministries that are there in advance so they land in college with a team and a mission, the outcomes are so tremendously different and it's actually so simple to make it happen.

Jim: You know, I, I gotta just jump in here. You know, John, you're a quote unquote, retired age guy, but you're not retired.

John Decker: Right.

Jim: And you're on a show speaking to retirees as we talk to them and encourage them to reform their idea beyond retirement - why? Why are you on this show? What do you have to say to this audience that you wanna make sure we got to share today?

John Decker: Yes. What I wanna share is I wanna see the kingdom of God grow and I totally believe what the Retirement Reformation says that this can be the most fruitful years of your life. And we have discovered this leverage point where by just letting people know, let's say, let, like what if retirees let their pastor know that Every Student Sent exists? They could see a whole generation of, of students in their church be connected and thriving rather than falling away. It's essentially that simple.

Jim: But don't you have a don't you have a purpose for retirees though, as well? Don't you have a need for retirees to get involved with Every Student Sent?

John Decker: Very much so because a lot of the way this grows is organically letting people in a given city know about this, this website and this program and this process. So a retiree can share with their church, they can share with other people in their city. And there's, there's ways in just spreading the message. They can get an incredible amount done.

But in addition to that, we need people that can then mentor students. Now this could be mentoring high school students. It could be mentoring college students. It can be done personally with people that, you know, face to face. It can be done on zoom. We've got a whole - we'll share with you like a website where you can plug in and learn how to do this. We'll train any retirees who wanna do it.

It's a very fulfilling thing to see your church go from struggling and how these parents kind of losing their kids to really thriving and getting personally connected with kids, not only in their faith formation, but how about their careers? You know, what is it like to help a student find the right career? You know, you've invested in a career. Now you'll be saying as a retiree that you've loved, you've enjoyed and you have some real wisdom to pass on and how you can serve Christ in that career and, and do it fruitfully and, and with a lot of joy.

So what if we take all these people with experience and they can, they can connect with these students? And even parents, you know? And share with 'em how to do this.

Jim: John, I love what you're sharing. So not only do you have a need for retirees to help with word of mouth, but you really have a desire for retirees to get involved with your ministry, that's every student sent.org, Bruce, any final questions before we go?

Bruce: No, just an observation that one of the roles that retirement reformation plays is to be able to discover ministries like yours, where virtually any senior, any adult can step in and play a role that's vital, where they can find meaning and purpose for themselves while they're bringing Jesus Christ to the next generation and finding meaning and purpose there, John you know, I'm glad that you're retired and never change that definition.

And and we look forward because at the Retirement Reformation, we say that we are called to be faithful for a lifetime and you model that. We look forward to partnering with you and spreading the word about what God has called you to do. And hopefully bringing more to the ministry.

John Decker: There's an easy way to get plugged in. You can go to everystudentsent.org. You can log in as a parent, and then you'll be able to, whether you are a parent or not, you'll be able to find a block there under the engage menu for ambassadors and volunteering and you'll be able to find, and maybe in the show notes, you'll have something too where they plug in and learn just how they can volunteer. They can even in touch with me. I'd be glad to talk with anyone.

Jim: Yeah. The show notes will definitely direct them to everystudentsent.org. John Decker. Thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today.

John Decker: Thank you.

Jim: We'll be right back with more in our third segment as we talk about decisions and things that you need to decide about ahead of time, questions you need to ask during your retirement. You're listening to iRetire4Him, hang on.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed, to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him Is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore: RetirementReformation.org. That's retirement reformation .org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce and I are talking today about the six questions you need, the six choice questions you need to make. You need to answer before you get into retirement. The first one was, how are you gonna relate to your spouse or partner? What are you going to do? And where are you going to do it? But Bruce, these are questions that are just the beginning of the choices we need to make. What's the next thing to decide?

Bruce: Well, the next one is, is to answer the question of who are you going to do it with? What is your community going to look like?

For example, you live in a community now. Typically you may have a church community and so on in those decisions that you make. You can either disrupt and, and set those all aside and find a new one with all of its issues, or you can have other ways to deal with the directions of your life, the geographical directions of your life.

While you maintain a home office in your community, remember two things. Number one, wherever you go, you come along. You don't leave yourself behind. You don't leave your attitude. You don't leave your habits. You don't leave any of that behind. You take it with you. And so, so many people think, well, I'm gonna have a new start, so we're gonna move someplace else for a new start.

That new start has issues along with it. One of 'em is you and the other one is your spouse. The third one is your relationships. And so who are you going to do it with? And what will your community look like? So one of the, the interesting things that we're learning these days, Jim, is that people are choosing places to move to who are compatible with their religious leanings and their political leaning, and much less to do with weather and other things.

So those are cultural issues. So how important are those cultural issues to you? And if you have a culture that you really like where you are, man, don't go someplace else cause it's not gonna work out for you. So all those questions about who are you going to do it with and what will your community look like are critical questions.

Jim: Hmm. Community, and community can means so many things. You know, and most of us can't handle having more than one or two or three really close friends. But to choose where you're gonna be with those friends. You know, you don't need, I'm gonna say this again. I'm beating a drum, cuz I've lived in Florida for 20 some years.

You don't need to move to Florida to retire. It's nice to visit, but don't give up on all the lifelong relationships you have, right where you're at. All right. Some activities are free, Bruce. They don't cost anything and some are not, how do we make sure we spend our time, how we spend our time doesn't blow our budget?

Bruce: So the really next question is whatever those preliminary decisions or directions or, or the, the journey that you think you're going to take, the question then becomes how you're gonna finance it. And are you doing something that is going to be more expensive or less expensive that will require more assets or less assets?

And there's things such as taxes, cost of living, cost of travel from where you're going to versus where you are this point in time. And so how are you gonna finance? It is really critical in the, in a prior segment we talked about, are you gonna have enough? This is an even more basic question, just simply, how are you going to finance it?

What I've learned is that the financial decisions that you have to make during retirement Are typically much more complex than the ones that you did before you were retired and we can spend a whole session sometime talking about why that's true.

Jim: And, and don't plan on financing it with the interest you're making on your CD at your local bank. I mean, this is something that you, you need to know how that's really gonna play out. Bruce. It seems like after we've asked all of these questions about choices and about how we're gonna spend our time, there's only one question left to ask. What is it?

Bruce: Last question. And it could be the first question, but I, I think if you ask it in this sequence as the last question of these is what is most important to you?

Because as you've gone down the rapid trails or the key journeys or the key understandings of the prior questions, now you have a, a backdrop against which to sit back and you and your spouse can say: which of these decisions that we're making are really the most important to us? And if we, if we had to do any adjusting, where would we adjust?

Which one would we decide eh, I know that we'd really like to do that, but for these reasons, it really wouldn't be wise? So to ask that final question, what is most important to you? And if it doesn't come out with something to do with God's plan for your life and your relationship with him and your relationship with those, if it doesn't have something to do with relationships, then in fact, it's a good time, perhaps revisit some of those earlier choices.

Jim: Those earlier questions - that's what we said in the first show in this series on the questions we need to ask in prepping for retirement is that a lot of these questions need to be revisited. It's not just a one and done. It's a one and redo because life changes. We, you know, things come at us differently.

We need to be able to be adjusting. Bruce, it's a phenomenal conversation. And you know, when, when you look, let's just get personal here as we close out the show today. You and Judy are in your eighties now, you know. You've been in retirement age for 16 plus years. How many of these questions did you ask yourselves and today you look back and you say, boy, I'm glad we asked that question ahead of time?

Bruce: Yeah. I, I would say about half of them and that I wish I'd had the wisdom in earlier years to be able to ask the rest of them because they then then evolved. For example, the question of, of who are you going to do it with?

So for example, when we look at those critical issues, how is our relationship with Brent going to be during retirement? Critical issue. We're going to be retired with him in one form or another. What is that going to look like? What about with our, with our other children? What about with, with lifelong friends?

What is that going to look like? And I, I think so often in, in our case that we focused on what are we going to do to the detriment of who are we going to do it with. And that if we had asked that question and examined it more intently, some of the other answers would've taken a different shape. Certainly would've changed some of our priorities.

And so that relationship question - with God, with our family, with those who we're called to serve, those who we're called to serve with is the question. And I believe that was the question that ended up with the answer of Solomon in Ecclesiastes. That our relationship with God is, is number one, then we fit in our relationships with others that go along with that, and then we figure out what it is that we're gonna do.

Jim: Hmm. Because you don't take it with you. The only thing you take with you is your relationship with your heavenly father and the relationships with others that will join you in heaven. That was what Solomon came up to. I love that last line of Ecclesiastes, he's so depressing. And here's the conclusion of the teacher: everything is meaningless except the pursuit of God.

Bruce Bruinsma, great conversation on the choices, the questions about the choices we need to make in prepping for retirement. Fun conversation today. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: Good to have the conversation.

Jim: You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg, of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers journeying from just our everyday idea of retirement to the idea of a reformed retirement. In fact, a Retirement Reformation. So we can ultimately say together, iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation, founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life if you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money.

And invested all in the generations, both preceding and following you. The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site.

Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 69: Questions to Ask Before and During Retirement, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the retirement reform. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, we're joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation. Bruce Bruinsma.

We invite you to check us out online retirement, reformation.org. And of course on Facebook, under Retirement Reformation. Retirement, the process of prepping for and entering into retirement is daunting to say the least. So many possibilities, so many ways to get it all wrong. Is there really a wrong? As we've said so many times on this podcast, many retirees know what they're retiring from, but very few, I mean, very few know what they're retiring to.

How can you make sure you're prepared for what's ahead? Bruce Bruinsma is here today to lend some advice. As we begin our three part series questions for prepping for retirement today, we're gonna focus on seven questions we must answer in order to be prepared for retirement, Bruce Bruinsma welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Hi, Jim, and so good to be with you. And I'm looking forward to dealing with these seven questions. Number seven is a, is a key number in the, in the Christian historocity. And so these seven questions will be ones that you'll wanna matter of fact, let me suggest to our audience, go get a notebook. Because you're gonna want to take some notes today.

Jim: Or your iPad, if you're a little younger and you wanna take notes on your iPad, but that's or your iPhone, whatever it might be. So, Bruce, why is it important that we ask ourselves questions before we head into retirement?

Bruce: Well, as you said in your introduction, there are so many people that, that know what they're retiring from, but have little idea of what they're retiring to.

So how do you enter into the conversation with yourself, with your spouse, family perhaps? To be able to answer the question, what am I retiring to? And we know that in order to answer that question, there are these seven choices that you can make. And once you make those, you will then be able to enter into a meaningful thought process, planning process, discussion and an action plan.

Jim: All right. So what is the number one question we should ask before we enter into retirement?

Bruce: When you sit back and you think about the retirement that's coming up or perhaps the next stage of retirement that's coming up, to really start at a 30,000 foot level and, and ask a very basic question. What's really important to me?

And when you start to take that apart of what is important to me, that will take you down the various trails that are part of the upcoming questions that we will address. But we'll start to give you a guideline of how God is shaping your thinking about what is next and what you're retiring to. So for example, what are the desires that you have that God has put in you?

What is it that you, you just feel I need to do that? What are the passions that God has built into you? What is it that I react to? And as, as I've said often, when someone says to me, well, how do I know what I'm passionate about? It's what is it that makes you cry. What is it that kind of chokes you up? And I'm a much more emotional guy than most people think.

And Jim, you know, on these in our podcast , quite often, we will have a subject or a topic and I really get choked up. We just had one in our, in a conversation we had with a wonderful lady from the Netherlands. But the topic that she has really, really gets me, I was really passionate about that.

Jim: Right.

Bruce: So what are, what are our desires? What are our passions? And then starting to sort through those and say then, okay, what are my priorities? And when you address that part of what is important to you, that starts to give you the, the boundaries within which God will direct the rest of your life.

Jim: So do we need to ask these just before we enter into retirement or do we need to ask them again in the middle of retirement as well? I mean, do, do, do we need to ask these questions more than once?

Bruce: Yeah, of course. It's more than once. When you're entering into retirement, when you're moving from stage one to stage two of retirement, usually in your late seventies and in that period of time, and then in your late eighties, one more time. It may be in the middle of it also because it's, there are so many needs and there are so many opportunities that once we get away from the, the disease of nothing and we move into "what is it that God's got planned for us?" these questions continue to become priorities.

Let's just think to, you know, the 40 years of Moses. And, and so God gave him the direction and he had his questions very much up front when he went to see Pharoh, but had to continue to refine those as the circumstances changed over the next 40 years. And each one of us has that same both need and opportunity.

Jim: So that reflection needs to happen often. All right. So what's, if the first question is what's most important to your retirement regarding your desires, your passions, your priorities, what's the next question we should ask ourselves?

Bruce: It's really interesting. It's one that before I really became engaged in this topic and really understanding where people were I would've put this next question much further down on the list. It's right at the top of the list because it has to do with what is our transition going to look like? And here's the question, where are we gonna live?

As a matter of fact, I suggest to those that are in their fifties and perhaps early sixties, that one of the best things you can do is grab your spouse's hand and go for a walk or dinner or wherever it is where you, you really talk and just ask the question, where do you think we ought to live? My goodness.

That brings up so many issues. Some that have been buried and need to come to the surface. Some that will be surprising. And probably the most important part of the answer to that question is that whatever your answer is for next, it is only the next step. And you will ask that question again, because wherever it is that you decide to live, you may not live there for the rest of your life. Things change. Times change. You change. But that question of where are we going to live and coming together in unity is where, what our next step is gonna be is really important.

Jim: My encouragement to you as you're thinking about where you're gonna live, just remember, there's already plenty of chronologically superior people in Arizona, Texas, and Florida. We need you right where you're at, where your family is, where there's families that are younger than you, where you could pour your life into them. Don't move away and be with a bunch of people that are 55. Plus we need you in the society. All right, what questions should we ask ourselves, Bruce, that helps us connect with our heavenly father in this process?

Bruce: You know, the bottom line process is to be connected with God's plan for your life. And so the question becomes, are you connected with God's plan for your life? And that starts with just realizing you acknowledge that he has one. There's number one.

Jim: Wow. That's a great one. Do you acknowledge that he actually has a plan for your life? When Bruce and I come back in the third segment, we're gonna finish up this conversation of the seven questions that you need to ask yourself before you get into retirement so you're prepared - well prepared. You're listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. When we come back, you're gonna hear from a very special guest. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges. And with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources.

We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirementreformation.org, and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today.

Take the journey from retirement to reformation so you can say iRetire4Him. RetirementReformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce, during every second segment of our podcast, you bring on a special guest in order to have them share their story of them living out their life during their quote unquote, retirement years. Who do you have for us?

Bruce: I've got a special guest today that was introduced to us by Elliot Innes, our director of operations for Retirement Reformation, and he always has good choices. And so Dr. Marlene Bizub. That right? I've got it correct?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: That's correct.

Bruce: All right, I've got it. And you know, if you can handle Bruinsma, we're all in good shape.

We just appreciate your being on today. You've got a, you have an impressive background and, and just give us a, a quick introduction into, you know, who you are and what God's has been having you to do. And then we can talk about what's next.

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Oh, I would love to share this. So the first court case I ever did. Afterwards. I said never again. And then I quickly realized that God placed me there for a reason. I'm a child of divorce. I've been divorced as an adult, which I don't believe in, but it happens to the best of us. And so I realized that all those things that had happened in my life perfectly prepared me for work in the courts.

I was in court even this morning on a case. And it's a brutal place to be. It really is. But if we don't have God there, you know, and it's a challenge because you can't openly talk about faith and religion in court because of the separation... and I know somebody told me, I, I don't tell this right... the, the separation of church and state. So I have to be really careful, but you can believe that God's presence is there when I'm there.

Bruce: So when you are in the process of being an expert in the midst of all the chaos and, and if you look deep into yourself, what is the desired outcome that, that God has put inside of you? That if that happens, man, that's a 10.

Dr. Marlene Bizub: A peaceful situation for the kids. Parents who can co-parent if not peacefully, at least not contentiously, that they can at least maintain some level of civility and especially around their children. If I can get them to not display, whatever they're feeling - anger, resentment, betrayal, possibly, you know, whatever they're feeling - and not express it in front of their children, that's a win.

Bruce: That's wonderful. And, and you've been doing this for a long time?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yes. About 20, 27 years.

Bruce: So how in the world are you able to maintain that beautiful smile? Oh, and a positive attitude in the midst of all that chaos?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: You know, I think just knowing that kids need somebody there for them, the kids keep me going. The parents, I hate to say certainly do not, but the kids do for sure.

Bruce: You know, that we know that in the work that we do with, with older people, that in fact, they could play a much more active and positive role should they choose to do so in these circumstances and lots of others. Do you see much interaction between, you know, the role of, I'll just say grandparents, but of older people in the lives of...

Jim: Let's call them chronologically superior, Bruce, let's not call them older.

Bruce: Chronologically superior. Yeah. I always think, I, I guess my ego can handle that one. The but do you, do you see much of that kind of an interaction taking place?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yes, I do. And the best way I describe the role of grandparents, in my cases, I get stepparents who can either be my greatest asset on the case or my biggest problem, but grandparents almost 95% of the time are a solid resource for the children. They're there for the children. I think they have enough maturity, you know, by the time they get to be grandparents that they know how to protect kids through this. Whereas some stepparents still don't and some parents still don't. But the grandparents, they play a vital role because they are often that go-to person for the kids when they're in the middle of all this.

Bruce: I think the ability to both identify and encourage grandparents and older people to, to actively take a role in the lives of those who are hurting and chaos and come alongside people like yourself. Do you have a particular story that you'd like to share with us as we, as we kind of get towards the end of our interview?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yes. People ask me all the if I'm thinking about retiring. You know, you must be getting close to that time that you're thinking about that. And I have to tell you retiring, doesn't enter my mind other than when people ask me about it. But I don't think about retiring because when you love the work you do, when you have a passion for the work you do, it's not work.

It's not something you need to retire from. I had someone ask me the other day - and it was a good, good question and I think a legitimate question - they said, if you had eight to five hours, would you still feel that way? You know, probably not. I mean, I've got the advantage or benefit of being able to set my own schedule, but I just can't imagine ever not wanting to help these kids in these cases.

Bruce: Well, you know, when you found that meaning and purpose, that makes all the difference. I was hearing someone say the other day who has a nonprofit organization that deals with kids and, and they were asking, what is it that, what advice would you have? And, and her comment was this, her comment is find something you're passionate about, rip off a piece and get started on it.

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yeah.

Bruce: And I just thought, boy, you represent that. You don't have to rip off any. You're right in the middle of it. And so, Jim, do you have any questions?

Jim: Yeah, I do. Marlene, iRetire4Him is a podcast focused on people that are retiring or already in retirement. And I imagine - just based on my experience, a little bit in the foster system, because I've got all three of my kids are involved in fostering - is that it seems like there's a need for more volunteers in the court system overall. And you got a lot of retirees today, listening to the show that are going, I want purpose.

And, and Marlene seems like she's super excited. She's still working full time and you're of retirement age. I'm not gonna disclose how old that is, but there's people that are listening going. Could I help? Could I help in any way? How could our listeners help you?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: The place I would tell them to go is CASA - court appointed special advocates.

CASA. And I'm actually going there tonight to teach a co-parenting class for the court, but CASA has, they utilize volunteers in their foster care cases. And so there is a big need. And I know over the past couple of years with the pandemic and everything, I know they're short on volunteers. So I would have people call CASA.

Bruce: Very good. We will look up that information and put it on our website.

Jim: Yeah. And so I just love that sign behind you: love your children more than you hate your ex. And, and as Jesus followers, there's no room for hate anywhere. And obviously in divorce, there's never an easy divorce.

Divorce is a gift that just keeps on giving and giving and giving in so many cases. But there are some great organizations out there in case people are listening, going: yeah, but I don't know how to deal with my kids' divorce. I didn't get divorced, but I don't know how to deal with my own divorce that we've interviewed some people in the past 0 smartstepfamilies.com as a great website to go to, to get some resources.

But Marlene, in closing out today, speak to those people who are retiring or already retired that are wondering how can they be an asset to their children whose marriages are struggling because they would, it's so easy to take the side of your biological child yet your grandchildren are your biological children, give some advice, some things you've seen grandparents do that you would not recommend repeating and some things you'd like to see that you'd like to have more grandparents repeat.

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yes. Well, like I said, most of the time, the vast majority of the time grandparents are a positive asset for the grandkids. I would say, just listen, just listen. Don't try to give them advice or tell them what you, what to do, or, you know, that type of thing.

Just listen for their adult children. I believe it's okay to say on here: direct them to the Bible. Our pastor actually is doing a series right now on marriage and divorce. Of course is rarely biblical. And I say rarely because there are a couple of exceptions in the Bible, but it's not gonna be easier with the next person.

And there's statistics that show if you get divorced once you'll get divorced again. And so direct them back to the Bible to therapists that work with people on marriages and things like that.

Jim: Yeah. And it was Dobson years and years ago, Bruce, you probably remember this when he came out and they did a study and people that were in crisis in their marriage and they decided to get divorced. Five years later, they wished they hadn't.

And those that stayed married five years later had the best marriage they ever had because they worked on it and marriage is hard work, but divorce is harder work. Marlene you've, you've seen that. And as grandparents of kids who've gotten divorced, it's like getting on a thin edge, trying to make sure that you're, you can stay in touch with those grandkids as marriages break off.

It's a full time ministry, but I appreciate you just sharing your story today and just a little bit of it. But how many more years you think you got in you? I mean, you think you could do this till the day you're done probably?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Probably, I mean, as long as my health permits, I will do this until I can't.

Jim: Mm that's fantastic.

Bruce: That's good. I'm glad. Thank you. We're so pleased we have people, you know, like you are doing that. And as a, as a friend of mine often says, isn't it amazing wherever you go, you bring yourself along with you?

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Yes!

Bruce: Dr. Marlene, thank you so much for your time today. We'll look forward to our next connection and, you know, God bless the work that you're doing, and may you maintain that emotional strength that it needs to, to be able to make a difference. So thank you.

Dr. Marlene Bizub: Thank you.

Jim: You've been listening to, iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, I retire for book retirement.

Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed. Let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the Retirement Reformation website in the bookstore Retirement Reformation.org. That's retirement, reformation.org.

Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. We're talking today about seven question you should ask yourself as you prepare for retirement. First one is what's most important to you in retirement? Your desires, your passions, your priorities, where will you live?

And are you connected to the unique plan God has for you? Bruce, we've still got four more questions, but only eight more minutes. When we're talking about the questions that we need to ask before we head into retirement, things we need to decide in advance. What's your next question?

Bruce: Well, the next question is this - and, and we could spend a whole hour on being connected with God in that process so absolutely connect with Retirement Reformation, org to help you walk down that pathway. So here's an interesting question. And question number four, who do you wanna love?

Jim: Yeah. What do you mean by that? Cuz I, when I was preparing I'm like, I don't, what do you mean?

Bruce: Well, for example, do you wanna spend most of your time in relationship with your children? There's a driver upon where we live and what we do. I want to love on them. Secondly, God may be calling you to love on the orphans of Ethiopia. And so that's going to change their, that direction of where you're going to be. Perhaps the opportunity to love veterans. to love the disabled.

Who is it that God is making a priority in your life? It doesn't mean that you're going to not pay any attention to everyone else, but where is it that, that, that internal love mechanism really needs to go to work. It's fascinating if you'll ask yourself that question and you and your spouse talk about it, you'll be surprised at some of the answers that will come out of it that you hadn't either thought about or hadn't expected.

Jim: And, and it'll give you some direction to answer some more of the other questions.

Bruce: Absolutely.

Jim: All right. So, so many of us are worried if our finances will carry us through the end of our lives. What's a good question to ask here?

Bruce: Well, the basic question I think in its most simple form is will you have enough?

And at some level we all understand what enough means. However, when we think about it - that our retirement years may be where we're faced with things like inflation today. And so when we say we have enough, what's really behind that, will there be sufficient resources be able to respond to God's call on your life?

To be able to respond to where he wants you to go, what he wants you to do, how generous he wants you to be, and with whom he wants you to be generous? And so having enough has, again, a whole series of, of different components to it. But the key is that are there enough resources that in fact your stewardship can overflow to others?

Jim: Hmm. And, and that's just, I love the fact that you put in there, your generosity. To plan your generosity. Because in, in my opinion, one of the things that I don't wanna do is to dump a bunch of money on my kids. When I die, I wanna be able to start teaching them how to handle their inheritance long before I go.

All right. So what questions should we be asking when it comes to making sure that we're still improving as a person, even in retirement?

Bruce: You know, and, and I think playing off the words you just used, even in retirement, I think therein lies an issue. That, what I have found is that during my retirement years, although obviously very active, I think I learn more every year about myself and about my relationships, about things I do.

Well things I do terrible, things that I can change. That whole area of generosity. There are all these areas that, that are that open. And so that, so that our personal growth continues, cuz if we stop growing well, what are we?

Jim: We're dying if we stop growing.

Bruce: Exactly.

Jim: So the question is where are you on your personal growth journey?

Bruce: Exactly the question. Yeah. So that, that is the next to the last question of where are you on your personal growth journey? And the answers to the prior questions will also help inform the answers to that question, because they're all integrated.

Jim: Bruce, take a minute to get a little personal with that one on your personal growth journey.

How have you made sure - and this isn't a spiritual growth journey. We're gonna deal with that in the, in, in one of the other podcasts here in, in our three part series - personally, how are you making sure you're just still growing and expanding and becoming a better person in your retirement years? Even though you haven't retired, but you know, in your retirement years?

Bruce: Well, one of the, one of the guiding lights that is still unraveling for me is how in fact do the fruits of the spirit, how are they reflected in my life? How are they reflected? And so, as I counsel with people, as I mentor with people, and then I look at the issues in my own life to remember that it's the lens of the fruits of the spirit that guide me often to different answers than Bruce Bruinsma would come to all by himself.

And that's the holy spirit speaking to us. And so the lens of the fruits of the spirit are the pieces to the puzzle. So I can ask myself, where am I in my love journey? Who am I not loving? Or who am I not loving enough? Love what? What comes next? Joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, generosity.

I got eight things that as I look through my life with those lens, I continue to find areas of things I don't know anything about. And things that I don't reflect in my life. And so that personal growth journey - by reading, by looking for other examples, by investigating things that come in front of me and say, gee, I don't know anything about that. Huh? That's interesting. Let me go find out.

One last one little story to illustrate that. Our son, Brent is challenged, special needs. And he has a set of encyclopedia. One of the wonderful things is that he can read. And so whenever I'm talking with him and we're talking about something he doesn't know anything about, I say to him, Brent, go look that up in the encyclopedia. And we'll talk about that. The next time we do, he does, he goes and he reads about it. And the next time we talk, I say, Brent, what did you learn when you read about this subject in the encyclopedia? Oh, dad, I learned a lot.

Jim: Hmm, that's great.

Bruce: Can't we all?

Jim: All right. We're talking the seven questions we need to answer before we head into retirement. The first one is what's the most important to you in retirement, your desires, your passions, your priorities, where will you live? Are you connected to the unique plan God has for you? Who do you want to love? Will you have enough? Where are you on your personal growth journey? And finally, Bruce, before we come to an end of this podcast, life in retirement comes with uncertainties. Well, it doesn't come with certainties. It comes certainly with uncertainties, except that the only certainty is that will end in our passing. What helps us? What question helps us to deal with those uncertainties?

Bruce: I think most of us can identify at least some of the, what I call the special issues of life. It could be a special, in my case, I just talked about Brent. That is a special issue in our life that we have to take into a, into account. So what are the special issues?

So it may be a relationship issue. It may be a financial issue. It may be a next step in a career issue. You know, I'm 81. I've got a, I've got a transition period coming. Here in the next year or two. Now I gotta decide what are the next years going to look like? And so we have, oh, health - there's another one. Relationship with your spouse, relationship with your kids. What are the special issues that you have to take into account as you pray, think about and be prepared to step into retirement or into the next stage of retirement?

Jim: And just to be able to plan on living day by day. I mean, it's great to plan for those 30 years, but to recognize that you don't know whether you have tomorrow or not so make the most of today, Bruce, great conversation about seven questions that we absolutely need to deal with before we enter into retirement. Good conversation today, Bruce.

Bruce: Thanks Jim. Absolutely very important questions.

Jim: You've been listening to. iRetire4Him the mouthpiece of the retirement reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, Retirement Reformation's own founder, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from just the idea of retirement to reformation so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma.

iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you. The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org.

And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation.org.

iRetire4Him Show 68: Loneliness in Retirement, Part 3

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement. To embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop. You can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Please check us out online retirementreformation.org. Retirementreformation.org. We encourage you tell your retired friends or your pre-retired friends about the iRetire4Him podcast. It's available on all your favorite podcast platforms. I retire the number 4 him. I retire the number 4 him. That's a podcast on your favorite podcast platform.

We're talking about loneliness. This is a series on loneliness. The first one of the series was what are the causes of loneliness? The second one, what are some ways we can eliminate loneliness? Today we're gonna focus on loneliness versus solitude. What's the difference? And how does what's the value of solitude for the everyday retired believer? Bruce, it's been a fantastic series. Welcome back to this final part of part three of our series. Thanks for being here today.

Bruce: Well, this is such an important topic. Jim and I've enjoyed the, the first two weeks we've talked and will really enjoy today, I know. When we, when we, when we evaluate all of the different manifestations, both positive and negative, that can take place during the 30 years that we call retirement and each one of the three different segments of different stages of retirement, the one issue keeps popping up as being central in how you deal with it makes such a difference.

Jim: And what's that issue.

Bruce: Loneliness. That is the one you might think it would be lack of money or, or all kinds of different things. But at the heart is, is this issue of loneliness and it's all of its ramifications. And so the fact that we've talked about it, and I think maybe in a few months, we probably oughta come back to it again because you, you can't talk about this too much in terms of helping people to understand what is at that root cause. What are the a, what are the understanding? What are the action steps? And then now as we talk today about the difference between loneliness and solitude.

Jim: So let's just give a brief brief recap, Bruce, for what we've talked about the last couple of weeks, why just give a summary for people?

Bruce: I think first thing is to understand that loneliness is an attitude. It is a state of mind. Now it is a physical being. Our physical state also of there is no one else around, but that no one else around we, we know that there is more to our world than, than the air that simply surrounds us. And so our relationship with Jesus, I can feel a relationship with... this past Monday Judy and I were in in Ann Arbor and we spent three and a half hours with a couple that are friends of ours.

And I have been a friend of his, or he's been a friend of mine, we have been friends since we were 10 years old. Now I'm 81. You do the math. We have been friends for 71 years. There have been extended periods of time during this 71 years. And most of it, we have lived very much apart from each other, but that we know that our relationship still exists.

And, and one time we went, I think five or six years where we didn't talk. And then both of us, for some reason, felt that need to reconnect. And so we spent four hours together with his wife and Judy and myself just reminiscing and just talking about things. And, and one of the things that I know is that our friendship fills a void in my life.

When we are a thousand miles apart. So it's not so much the physical presence, although obviously that makes a difference, but it's the attitude that you bring to the relationships that you have because when loneliness is, is that "man, there is nobody. I am all alone" and there's where that, that problem and the real pain comes.

And, and so being lonely is an attitude, we said in our second segment, that there are choices that you can make to reach out and is when you build relationships, find meaning and purpose that in fact, that loneliness fades away.

Jim: When you look at loneliness, which you've defined as a feeling and, and, and it can be an attitude, but it's, it's a feeling that impacts so many. What about solitude? Define solitude for me.

Bruce: Well, I think solitude is quite different. I believe that, you know, when we, and, and we've talked about it, but when, when Jesus retreated from the group and went by himself, I don't think he was lonely there. I think he was finding solitude, which is then an opportunity to connect emotionally and relationally for him with the father.

And we have that same opportunity. But if I am reflecting upon my relationship with my, my friend for 71 years, I don't even have to talk to him. I can reflect on the relationships that we have. And I'm not lonely. I am, I was gonna say fulfilled. I'm not sure that's quite the right word either, but, but I know that someone cares, I care about them. I can reach out to them. They can reach out to me. And it's this whole idea of relationship rather than just connectedness. And, and so there is a need for solitude.

So for example one of my partners on a, all about every six months will go take three days and we will get in his car and start to drive all by himself. No idea where he is going. He just gets out and drives. Turn right, turn left, and finds out a day and a half later where he is, and then finds his way back home. And that solitude is his time with God, his time with himself. And it's very, very positive. Matter of fact, the way that he handles solitude and perhaps there's a suggestion for all of us, there is, it will be a wonderful antidote to loneliness.

Jim: He just may change, change the way he does it after he figures out the cost of gas, just driving, just to drive.

Bruce: Exactly. Yeah. It may change. Exactly.

Jim: So, Bruce, you've been an, you've been an on the road and in the air kind of sales guy for, you know, for 60 years. How did loneliness and solitude play a part in your life?

Bruce: One of the things, it took me a long time to understand, but whether I was flying to Southeast Asia, which takes 39 hours, going to Europe or, you know, driving across the state or whatever, it may be, one of the things that for a long time, I didn't understand why that didn't bother me, why that was okay. And what I finally learned was that was where I could, was able to get my me time to rejuvenate myself, pray, think about things, to get things in perspective, and I needed that amount of solitude and that provided it. Now for most people, they go, well, gee, I hate airplanes and can't sit for that long and you know, on and on and on and on.

Jim: Yeah, I get that. The solitude I'm okay with, but the sitting still, I don't know. 39 hours, that's a long time.

Bruce: That is a long time. But if you think about, you know, what is it that I need to be praying about, thinking about figuring out. And I use that time to do that where there is no pressure, right? There is no, I can't do anything else.

I can't go out and walk on a wing. I can't answer the phone. I can't do that. So that, that solitude is a point of rejuvenation. And, and, and re-energizing. And I, and we all have different needs for different amounts of that. But I really think for most of us, if, if we'd have a, you know, a personal retreat or a personal time where we intentionally are reading a book, we're praying we're, you know, reading the Bible, whatever it may be.

It is, it is wonderful. I remember spending four day, five days at a cabin in Sweden, out in the middle of the woods, man. I mean, there wasn't anybody around and sitting on the porch in that cabin in Sweden and just saying, okay, God, what do you want me to think about? And just sitting there, and then the thoughts would come and, and it was just, oh, it was just exhilarating to have solitude. And, and, and that, that then, as I said, is an antidote to loneliness and is part of the ways that I think that we talk to God and that we allow him to guide us in what's coming next.

Jim: Good words. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him. Hang on.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training. To bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirementreformation.org, and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink, retool, reframe, and reform your retirement today.

The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. RetirementReformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Today we have during our second segment, a special conversation with Sue Ruddick.

She's a retired employee of DaySpring. You know, if you go out there and buy great cards in a local bookstore that are Christian cards, they're often, if you turn 'em over, they're DaySpring cards. They have a phenomenal line of products. DaySpring cards are what I tend to use, but they have a phenomenal line of products.

For all kinds of things that uplift Christian women across the spectrum. I encourage you to check 'em out at dayspring online. That'd be a fantastic opportunity for you to see what they're all about. Sue Ruddick, you retired from Dayspring 12 years ago.

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: And you didn't a lot of time to prep for retirement, and you mentioned that you felt loneliness. And I wanna talk about that today. Loneliness versus a little bit of solitude, but Sue, as you retired, did you ever wonder how you would fill your days?

Sue Ruddick: Yes. Yes.

Jim: Talk to me about that.

Sue Ruddick: Well, my days were very full and I loved every moment because I loved the interaction with people, which is part of God's gifting that he, that he has put in me.

And so when that was taken away, I thought, okay Lord, what is it? What, what is going on here? And he seemed to be quiet with me. So I have learned through the years that when God is quiet, I still need to press in to him. And that this is where the, the feelings of loneliness and loss become... it's not insignificant.

But he uses that to pull you towards him. It's part of his pursuing to bring you into a closer or a deeper relationship with him, because none of us like to be lonely and you can only watch so much TV and you can only read so many books before you're kind of going: okay, what's the benefit of all this? Sorry.

Jim: That's that's okay. It's so true though. It is because there's only so much golf you could play. There's so much tennis you could play. Like you said, books or TV - after a while your mind starts to melt. At any point in time in your retirement, these last 12 years, did you struggle with loneliness?

Sue Ruddick: Yes. Yes.

Jim: Talk to me about that.

Sue Ruddick: And, and again, this is where the real source of fulfillment and getting rid of loneliness is God. So when you allow Jesus Christ and the holy spirit to become active in your life, you begin to sense the fulfillment and the purpose. And those are two things that drive out loneliness.

They did for me. So when I began to feel like God had a purpose for me, that he wasn't through with me, that there was more to just cooking meals and cleaning the house and running the errands and helping some friends, there was more to life that I wanted. And that was the loneliness that was there because I didn't have the purpose anymore that was kingdom driven.

And so the pressing in, and his pursuing me to, into his word, was what began to drive the loneliness out and give me a sense of fulfillment. It's not really the doing of the task for the kingdom, but it's the relationship that we have with our God.

Jim: So doing the stuff didn't eliminate the loneliness, but seeking him, spending time with him. And that's what we would call maybe solitude. You got some solitude with the Lord. Talk to me about your, your, your time of solitude with Him.

Sue Ruddick: It was, we lived out in the country. So that was, it was easier because we weren't in the hustle bustle of town all the time.

Jim: Hustle and bustle of Siloam Springs. That's what you mean, which is a town of how many people?

Sue Ruddick: Well, we actually lived out in the country. Well, five acres of wooded property.

Jim: Right. I know. But how big you talking about the hustle and bustle for busy town?

Sue Ruddick: No, but we do live not far from Bentenville now, which is okay.

Jim: Then there is some hustle and bustle there - explains that. Yeah. Okay.

Sue Ruddick: And when, when I began to really press into God and say, okay, Lord, I am just feeling this loneliness. I kind of have this emptiness and, and I don't understand it because you're my savior. I should be, I should be content with where you have me, but he was stirring things in me getting me ready to go talk to my pastor about starting a women's Bible study. And we were in a church of a decent size. We were running five or 600, but no women's ministry.

And so that when this friend said just out of the blue, I think you should do women's Bible study. I'm kind of going, okay. So that was kind of the birthing point, but God had been working through that loneliness, pulling me towards him, putting me in a place where I was gonna have to exercise my faith and I didn't feel competent. I didn't feel trained. All of those things that we say when God's getting ready to do something in our lives. So he had been working on this loneliness thing, some of it to make me desperate enough, I guess, to the point where I would be willing to just, okay, I'm gonna do something. And but it was all in God's design.

Jim: Talk to me about your experience with your friends. You, you started up this ladies Bible study. Were all the people in the Bible study retired?

Sue Ruddick: No.

Jim: No. Okay. But you had other retired friends who were ladies as well?

Sue Ruddick: Yeah.

Jim: Yes. How, how did you see them struggling with loneliness and struggling with this whole transition into retirement?

Sue Ruddick: I saw the very same things popping up in their lives. I saw them, they didn't, they didn't really have a sense of purpose. They were doing things with family and taking care of, of kids and parents. But they didn't really seem to have that deep contentment with the Lord and a strong purpose of kingdom work. And I, and we see that so much. Now we encounter opposition from the world, even when you're not retirement age. We, we just see the world coming at us to rob that peace that we have with Christ.

Jim: It's so true yet retirement is supposed to be all about peace and relaxation and fun. Did you find that it was a little bit more than that?

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: But what was your, describe the emotions that you went through, you know, in that first few years of retirement? Cause a lot of people think, well, I'm just gonna, I get to sleep in as late as I want to. I get to do whatever I wanna do. Nobody gets to tell me where to go and tell me what to do, but what were you really feeling?

Sue Ruddick: You have no direction. You are like that ship out on the sea. That's tossed about everywhere with no seeming direction. And I go back to this word again. There was no purpose and God built in us the desire to have a purpose for his kingdom. And when you don't have that, you are afloat with no direction, no fulfillment.

And it's, it's painful. And it is a lonely place. And and God in his mercy just comes. And when he calls us to be his children, he doesn't just leave us. So through the years of serving him and even, especially during retirement. What was it in my last days on this earth, could I do to forward God's purpose?

What could I do to impact the kingdom for the future? I don't wanna just sit here and let time fly away. And the older I get, the more intense that becomes. So once I got through that initial adjustment of a year, the intensity began to build. So I spend a lot of time at my church volunteering.

I do, I, I lead the women's ministry. I teach a lady Sunday school class. I, we host a live group at our house. I serve on a couple of committees at church and. I, when I look at, at these women, I want them to know Christ and I want them to have peace and security in that he can still use them, even if they can't drive and get out anymore.

They're still, God has a purpose for them. So how do we, how do I help them move into that sense of feeling usable by God? God, doesn't just set us aside and wait for us to die. Right. He sets us, he may put us on a shelf, whether it's physical or financial or whatever, but he still has - his purpose is overarching. Everything is about God's purpose.

Jim: So as we close out this segment with Sue Ruddick today, a retired employee of Dayspring online, Dayspring.com. Talk to me about resources that helped you get through these last 12 years of retirement. Did you have any special books that you read that held or, I mean, was there anything out there to help you?

Sue Ruddick: No. I have to say that. Not that I was aware of. I'm sure the resources were out there, but I didn't know it. So it's been, as we would say, a school of hard knocks, I've learned it just by personal experience and being involved in Bible study. And I would specifically target Bible studies to get involved in as a participant.

But as a facilitator also and I recently just realized I, I have to feed me too. So it was like I had to seek out certain things with whatever issue I was dealing with. If once I move beyond loneliness, we had, we've had tragedies in the family. You know, why, why God? Help me understand this and not be angry, not be bitter at you for what's happened.

And so I would target those emotions and work on a Bible study in regard to that and then let him do the hard work, cuz I had to be willing for him to say, okay...

Jim: I wanna capture what you said offline before we got started recording today. When you saw, when you, because you didn't know anything about iRetire4Him, you didn't know anything about the Retirement Reformation. Tell me what, what you said to me.

Sue Ruddick: Well, I'm not sure what...

Jim: Well, that's okay. Tell me what's on your heart about it.

Sue Ruddick: Oh, on, in retirement that there are things that you can do to prepare that I didn't know about. And so having gone through that, and, and as I was kind of rethinking back through what I might say to you about, about post retirement and how to prepare for it today, I thought there are levels of things we need to do to retire that I did not know about and was caught off guard.

We always think financial that's the first thing that pops up. Right. And am I financially prepared for this? Well, probably not, but, but beyond that, there was a level of emotion that had I, that had I known to prepare for. I, they wouldn't have caught me so off guard.

Jim: And I wanna capture that the next time we bring you on, I wanna capture some of those thoughts. The lack of preparation that you had and what you've learned now that you can help some other people with when you come back and share that part of your story.

Sue Ruddick: I would love to.

Jim: All right. You've been listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back with segment three.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now.

I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org.

Jim: And welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Please check us out online retirementreformation.org. Retirementreformation.org. We're talking about loneliness versus solitude.

And here's my question for you. We've talked about all of it. Good, the bad, and the ugly about loneliness. What are the soul - S O U L benefits of solitude? I wanna bring this up before you answer that question. Psalm 46:10, one of those ones that Martha talks to me about. You know, in the English version, it says be still and know that I am God.

I'm told that in the Hebrew that it really says stop striving and know that I'm God. And that's solitude. And I've, I've been at a place, there was a camp that we visited in north Tennessee many years back. And that was their camp motto be still and know God. And, and when you were at that camp, you couldn't help because your cell phone wouldn't work and, you know, there was no television and it was just a quiet place.

Talk to me about you. What are the soul benefits? Our soul benefits for solitude?

Bruce: I think when we think about loneliness, there is a sense of rejection in that. Either you rejecting the outside world and posting inward or feeling that people are rejecting you so that you. When we, when we transfer that conversation into solitude, it goes from that feeling of rejection to a, a replenishment of our soul and an engagement and an embracing that we're embracing something in our relationship with God, in our understanding of ourselves.

And it has nothing to do with rejection. And so that you're, you can breathe easy rather than breathing tight. You can have unclenched hands rather than clenched fists. You can, you can eat well without indigestion. Those are the things that, that come from that. And, and, you know, what is the, you know, if we use the word soul and I, I just, I love that.

It is the essence of who we are and is the essence that God created us. And so that soul being that we have to be able to, to, to rest it, to refresh it, to realign it, perhaps to heal it, all of those internal needs that. That that are not what God would intend for us. That is not what I love you means. The opposite. And so our soul healing and when our soul is healthy, then our relationships will grow. When our soul is not, our relationships will diminish with God, with ourselves and with others.

Jim: What do you say that the, what does the Bible say about solitude? Give me, gimme something from your heart. I shared my verse about it. What, what do you say that the Bible says about the value of solitude?

Bruce: I think the whole idea of, of being quiet by still waters, green grass, quiet. David knew his heart was with God and God knows, cuz he created us that we need those times alone and that in those times alone we need to be refreshed.

Jesus needed to be refreshed. Cause man, he was getting it knocked out of him on a regular basis, emotionally, physically, every which way. And so we need that refreshing in order to go. And isn't that the reason why we take vacation so that in fact we can be refreshed? Hopefully you put some refreshing time into the, in, in, into those, into those activities.

On the other hand, when the soul is refreshed, one of the results is creative and physical energy and the ability to be able to be passionate about what God is passionate about and what he's built into you. And so you need those times of refreshing.

But it's not 20 years. It's not sitting on the couch. That's not what that means. The refreshing of our soul and the healing of the wounds. I had a real, a real painful experience at one point in my life and, and probably for the next 20 years. Occasionally, I would go back to that painful point and, and kind of relive it. And it would really hurt. It was, it was, you know, it was not good.

It made me feel very much alone in those moments. And I would fight that and say, well, that doesn't make any sense and go away. So then I got finally saying, you know, God, my soul is hurting about this and what is it that you want me to do so I can set it aside and move on. And his answer was you need to go back to that place where that took place.

You need to go into that environment where that took place and you need to be there. And just let me, talk to me. Okay. So Judy and I took a trip and went to that place. Told Judy to stay in the hotel. I got something I gotta do. So I went to that place and I said, okay, I'm here. What he said was, you know I love you.

So yeah, he just, I loved you then. Really? Yeah. I loved you then. And I love you now. Why don't you just take that pain in your soul and set it aside? That's a good idea. It had shadowed my soul for 20 years. And to have that lifted. Wow. What a benefit of being in solitude with God?

Jim: How can the Retirement Reformation come alongside all of our listeners to just help us to experience more solitude, Bruce?

Bruce: Well, I think we have a wonderful prayer app. That's that's a great one. And and so to really help you to, to be more consistent and more embracing in your prayer life. That's one way I think a second way is to, is, is, you know, settle down with that good book in front of the fireplace on a snowy night and.

Jim: Or in front of the air conditioner on one of those hot nights.

Bruce: Or in front of the air conditioner when it's hotter than blue blazes. And, and let it speak to you. I think the opportunity to, to be in community with like-minded friends, even though when you are in community, it is not solitude, but it gives you that soul healing strength to be in solitude, but not feel alone. So you can be by yourself and be totally alone. You can be by yourself and be totally embraced. I'd suggest the second.

Jim: And you send out a, a devotional on Sundays with the connection to the prayer app. You've, you've got your, your four books, five books that people can read through in solitude, just to listen to what God has to say to them about retirement. A lot of great ways. Retirementreformation.org, retirementreformation.org.

Bruce, that ends our series right now on loneliness and retirement, but what a great, what a great way to end it to just embrace solitude as Jesus embraced the 40 days before he launched his ministry, as Moses had to embrace 40 years before he was launched into his ministry, God uses solitude to shape us first. Great conversation. Thank you.

Bruce: Thank you, Jim. I'm glad we did the series and, and we'll look forward to the next one. And, and in all of the series that we do. To remember that there's, that, that issue of solitude that is floating around there, that we, we need to continue to be aware of, to address, and to be able to go, you know, perhaps to go from being lonesome to a soul healing solitude.

Jim: You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg, of course the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation using solitude. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Bruce: iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love. Serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians.

To find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him.

Go to retirement, reformation.org.

8/1/22 - iRetire4Him Show 67: Loneliness in Retirement, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. Please check us out online: retirementreformation.org, retiremen,reformation.org.

Nobody wants to feel lonely during their retirement. So it's important to recognize your feelings. It takes steps to increase your quality of life. Wherever you can incorporating new habits, a deeper spiritual walk resulting in a fresh outlook on all of that will help you feel less isolated and alone.

After you leave the workforce, your retirement years can be the best years of your life, but you gotta keep your eyes on the Lord. Be honest with yourself when you're struggling with loneliness, maintain a positive mindset and embrace this new era of life with all of its uncertainties. It's a gift of time that's yours to treasure should you choose to do so. Today we embark on part two of a three part series entitled loneliness in retirement. Today we're gonna focus on solutions for overcoming loneliness in retirement and all out, avoiding it entirely. It's gonna be a fantastic series. Already started a couple weeks ago. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him,

Bruce: Jim I've really loved our conversation a couple weeks ago, and this will build on that. And then one next week we'll build on that because it is such a, you know, loneliness is such a critical issue. As a matter of fact, most of the research shows that, that the issues in aging in that whole 30 year period, whether you're moving into the first stage second stage third stage, that loneliness is the heart of a problem that has rabbit trails has, has tentacles that extend everywhere so we are, we are talking about a heart issue. That is a key issue that needs to be understood and addressed in order to be able to live that life of meaning and purpose that we all want. And to fill that hole, that vacant hole that's in the middle of us.

Jim: Well, that vacant hole can only be filled by one thing. And that's Jesus. And most of the people listening to today's show are already have Jesus, but it doesn't mean that they're totally healed and totally living in freedom. And this loneliness can be one of those things that the enemy can use to put, just put a damper on all of life. Why don't we just go back and just summarize quickly, Bruce, what we talked about on our podcast a couple weeks ago about loneliness and retirement and, and what are some of the signs and, and, and then we're gonna focus the rest of the show on talking about solutions to loneliness?

Bruce: I think first of all, it's important to understand that loneliness while it can, it has physical manifestations. The key part to loneliness, the most important thing to understand is that loneliness is a state of mind and it it's linked to wanting human contact, but feeling alone and being either unable or unwilling to take a step out of the loneliness trap and into the relationship and into relationships.

So, you know, people can be in the midst of a crowd and be alone. They can have contact with people and still experienced loneliness. There's there's just a whole series of things that we'll talk about that we can do to overcome it, but just realize that it is a state of mind, therefore, at some level, there is a choice involved.

Jim: So let's talk about that. You know, as we focus on solutions to loneliness, what are your friends saying to you about how they overcame loneliness in retirement? I think you've got, you've got stories up your sleeves all the time. Tell us one of those stories.

Bruce: I was talking with woman actually earlier this morning and she is 80. 10 years ago, 10, 11, 12 years ago, she and her husband moved from where they had lived all their lives and where their kids were to a nice town where they thought they wanted to be. He died two years later. So she has been a widow in a new town for now 10 years. As we were chatting this morning, I said to her, so what was the most difficult part of that? And what advice would you give someone who was making that transition? And it was fascinating what she said.

She said, you know, Bruce, I, I don't regret the decision that we made to move, but I didn't understand what we were leaving behind and how difficult it was going to be. Particularly as a widow. When my husband was here we had, we had a, a, a, some places of connecting. When he died, they tended to disappear. And so I have had to work really, really, really hard to be able to find those relationships in this new area. I said, so have you been successful? And I think her honest answer was partially, and I said, well, what do you do when, when you're feeling alone?

She says, oh, I just have the most direct conversations with God. You can imagine. I just tell him, we gotta do some stuff today. Cuz I'm not feeling good. And I, well I said, well, how does he answer? She goes, he always gets me going. And then sometimes I don't like what we're doing. And so I just talked to him and he talks to me.

And, and that's for me, that was her answer to loneliness. I said, so how often do you have these conversations? Oh yeah. Once a day. Sometimes every other day she said. How long do they go on? She says, oh yeah, we do it most of the morning. And so, you know, on the one hand you chuckle and you go, oh my goodness. On the other hand, you go she has taken an action, made a decision to find a friend in Jesus and to be her friend in her way. And I, I just thought that was, that was encouraging. I thought it was very healthy and it may not be the way that you would express your relationship that way we go, oh, the other thing she said, she said, did you know, what's my lifeline?

I said, what's that? She says my telephone. She said because all my friends that I have not here, I can still stay in touch with them. I said, well, does it ever bother them that you're calling them a lot? She says, no, no, I'm sensitive to that. I, I get it. I understand. But she said for me to be able to pick with the phone and call Sally for a 20 minute conversation helps.

I said, so the key is the decisions that you are making in order to deal with what otherwise, what might be a very lonely situation. She said you're exactly right. You gotta decide to take some action. Some of them may be a little unusual, but they work for her in this case.

Jim: Did she share with you why she didn't just choose to move back near her kids?

Bruce: I asked her that. I said, well, why don't you know, why don't you move back by [her children's names]? She said, you know, the sense is we have a good relationship, but that it would've been too close and I would've been too needy and, and they don't need me to be needy in their life. I, I want to support them.

So if you know, they need me to come over and, you know, go back to the town and take care of their kids while they gotta be gone or something. I'm happy to do any of that, but I, I also didn't wanna be a burden on them. Well, her health is starting to go down. So it'd be interesting to see how that plays out in the next stages of life, because this loneliness had different dimensions, whether you're 60 and they're quite different than when you're 75. And then they're quite different again, when you're 85,

Jim: I just, I, I love the fact that she was honest with you. She just shared yeah from her heart what was really going on. And that's pretty powerful.

Bruce: That is very powerful. Yeah.

Jim: Do you find that most of your retired friends are really in touch with their emotions and are making decisions based on dealing with those emotions or, I mean, do you, how do you, how do you find your friends dealing with those emotions?

Bruce: I think ignore and anger, I think are way too common. Mm. They either don't want to admit that there's an issue. And so they cover it up and, and there may be drinking or other kinds of ways that they're dealing with their, with, with that loneliness or anger about it. And they take that anger out on sometimes on their kids, on their friends, on whatever. It is, their fault that I feel the way I do.

And so it's, that is so hard. And, and as those of us that have found ways to be able to deal with those changing relationships, be able to find ways to love and support them is part of our responsibility, but they have a role in it also. Although often it's much easier to point fingers than it is to take responsibility.

Jim: Yeah. Yes it is. But when we point a finger, there's three pointing back at us. You're listening to, iRetire4Him. As we talk about solutions to loneliness and retirement, we'll be right back with more conversation with Bruce after we hear from a very fantastic guest here in our second segment. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirementreformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say iRetire4Him. Retirementreformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Bruce, every second segment of every show, we always bring on a special guest to share their story. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Well, Jim, we've got a special guest from, on the other side of the ocean, that would be the Atlantic ocean to the country of, of my heritage. And I like to introduce our, our listenership to Saskia Van Helden. Saskia welcome. We're so glad that you're with us today.

Saskia Van Helden: Thank you, Bruce. It's my privilege. I'm looking forward.

Bruce: You know, God has ways of, of bringing different people together in order to carry out plans that he has for us. And it's always fascinating to our audience to be able to understand the journeys that others have been on.

And so you've been on a journey for just a number of years. And so give us just a little bit of your background and, and so that will position us to understand a little bit more about in, in another segment, we'll talk about your ministry in some detail. But now tell us a little bit about Saskia and how God has worked in your life.

Saskia Van Helden: Okay. Thank you. I will, as Jim told I'm born in the Netherlands in a Christian family and I'm the second daughter in my family. And my parents they were used to start praying at the moment my mom was knowing that she was pregnant. So it was very early for me to have a praying mom. And I think that's been a blessing for me in my whole life and when I was born and they discovered it was a, a daughter.

Again, they give me a second name. The first name is de Deudata. That means - it's a Latin name - it means gift from God and for my parents, their baby, their newborn baby was a gift from God. But in my life, I've changed that interpretation a bit. Like my life is a gift from God and that's like a motto in my life that I know that God is with me. And that I have lived love, with a praying mom and a praying dad.

Bruce: Oh, and what, and where, where were, where in the Netherlands were you born and were you raised?

Saskia Van Helden: I'm raised in Zwolle. It's a bit in the middle of the country. And sometimes people call it like a more, a Christian city, the most Christian city of the Netherlands, because we have many churches in our city. And we have Christian education centers. So I hope that some of the love of God through the Christians in our city is visible in our city, in social welfare, in economic welfare.

Bruce: And so continue on with a bit of your life story. Where did you go to school and what were some of the key things? Maybe the two or three things that really influenced you in the direction of your life, knowing that God has a plan for you?

Saskia Van Helden: I think at the age of 12, I read a book from a woman named Betty Smith. She, as a young girl she went to Brazil. And to bring the gospel to the Indian people. And I was very much impressed by her story, by her adventure, by her courage to go into the rain forest and leave everything behind that was about wellbeing.

So Betty Smith was about kind of role model for me. And I still have her book here. I like to read it. And the second part is that in our church, we had quite some programs about prayer education and Bible education. And not only for children within our church, but also within the city like Bible schools, holiday Bible schools, probably, you know, them.

And as a young teenager, I was involved. I, I raised like a natural way of doing that and joining it. So I think that's very well, that, that was part of my education. And later on, as a student we went to campsite to bring the gospel. So yeah, I was used to, to, to be involved in evangelism.

Bruce: For our, for our audience to know: the Netherlands was one of the key countries in the, in the reformation, in that Christian religion was critical to the development of the country. But over the years it has reversed. And so as of a few years ago, the number of, of admitted Christians in the country was, was under 5%. And so the town Zwolle and the ministries that have come out of that are bright shining lights in, in a very dark world. What is God saying to you about the the growth of Christianity and those that will follow Christ in your country?

Saskia Van Helden: You mean after the century ahead? Like the modern devotion?

Bruce: Yeah. What? Yeah, what's coming ahead?

Saskia Van Helden: Sorry. Bruce. You have to ask the question again. I do not understand quite all of that.

Bruce: I can do that. How do you see God working in the Netherlands to be able to change the culture from now? It is very, un-Christian having once been Christian and now to be able to draw it back closer to Jesus?

Saskia Van Helden: Well, there are some developments there that will influence our developments. I think the final development, the lockdown because of covid has opened our eyes about what faith and being a Christian really means - if it's just a way of being a cultural Christian and having a tradition of going to church or whatever, or is it something of your heart and being a follower of Jesus Christ.

I think we get kind of separation after, go about who really wants to continue as a church member as a follower of Jesus or who has made other plans and other decisions on not only on Sunday, but also during the week. That's one development, another strong development in our country. And especially my husband is involved is that we have many migrants coming.

From Asia coming, africa. And they are faithful Christians, so we can learn from their way of their belief, their worship to God, their community their intercultural meetings on Sunday. So I think for the coming decade in the Netherlands, we should have an eye, not only for the traditional reformed churches and Christians, but also for the migrants that are coming to our country.

Bruce: Yeah. What a, what a wonderful attitude that is. And my prayer would be that that attitude would also be reflected here in the United States, towards the immigrants that come to our country. I think we can learn a lot from you. One last question. What do you see in the next five years of, of your, you know, of your Christian walk? How is God leading you? And we'll, we'll talk about your ministry in a second session, but how is God leading your walk in as you, as you think about the next five years?

Saskia Van Helden: Well, I, I feel blessed during my whole life with a good health and a loving, full family. So God has given me the ability to, to invest in our ministry of Wake Up Deborah, and I'm looking forward and I feel of urgent that much more people worldwide are starting to pray for the next generation. And I'm not having an agenda or a plan of a strategy, but I have a calling to start with sharing the ministry and inspiring people and equip them with how to start with it.

Bruce: Well, we're very encouraged. In, in our next segment we will we will talk about the details of that. I think you're an inspiration to a lot of people. I know that you had a gathering of, of 5, 6, 700 Ukrainian refugees in your town here a couple of weeks ago. And and so you, and, and those that are, that you're associated with are really reaching out in some very, very special ways. And we thank you for that. So with that, we will hear more from you. And by the way, thank you for the life that God has given you and the direction that he has and, and the leadership skills that he's blessed you with. Jim you got any other questions?

Jim: No, it's just, it's fascinating to hear how God is moving in the Netherlands, Saskia. I appreciate you sharing that. We have on another podcast, we'd interviewed an evangelist from the Netherlands and talked about some incredible things that God is doing. And it's, it's great to know that God is alive and well on the European continent. But Saskia, thanks for being with us on iRetire4Him. We'll be right back with more in segment three.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore retirementreformation.org. That's retirement, reformation.org.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Online RetirementReformation.org. We're talking about solutions to loneliness and retirement, and please pay close attention, cuz we're gonna really give you some great ideas here in this last segment of our podcast today, Bruce, what's a great scripture we could start off on in this third segment of our podcast, when we're film lonely, what's a great scripture to go to?

Bruce: You can go to any number of the Psalms. And in fact, David felt that great loneliness. And so the, the Psalms or the parts of the Psalms. Go to the part of Psalm 119, where, you know, this is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice. To always be reminded that there is an opportunity to rejoice in our relationship and what he's called us to do. So the Psalms the, the, the basics.

There are some there are some, you know, wonderful songs that come from our childhood, perhaps that can give us encouragement. And then to, to know, because what is it that sets us free? What is it that sets us free from lots of things, but what is that sets us free from loneliness?

The truth sets us free. Mm-hmm . And so when we know that truth and we go to John 15:16, as we do in the Retirement Reformation often, where just in - and before we get to that 16th verse, just prior to that, where, where Jesus says I call you friend. You are no longer a servant because you know my father's business. I am doing my father's business and you know that. That that's an activity and I call you friend. So when you have a friend, you can't be very lonely. So you gotta make sure you got that friend. Well, then what does that friend say?

He says, love your neighbor. Whoa. If I'm lonely and I step outside to love my neighbor, that loneliness will start to disappear. And then he says, guess what? I chose you. Oh my goodness. Somebody cared enough. Do you remember the old game? Red Rover red Rover, like yeah. Somebody come over, remember that? Dumb game, but at any rate...

Jim: broken arms, broken necks.

Bruce: Absolutely. But the way that, that was usually set up was that, you know, you were, you were, you had two captains and they chose teams. And so I, if you remember the feeling when you were chosen, oh my goodness. He cares. He thinks I'm important or big or faster. Well here, Jesus is saying, I chose you. I didn't just pull a number out of a hat.

I actually chose you. And then I prepared you. Oh my goodness. I'm prepared for something. Oh dear. And what's the result of that preparation? Oh my goodness. It's bearing fruit. Fruit that will last, so, wow. I'm chosen. I'm prepared. There is fruit for me to bear that is already outlined. I'm unique and special. When those thoughts are the ones that, that capture your attention.

Oh. And then he says at the end of that, oh, and by the way, do not forget to love your neighbor. And so when your focus is on those things, it is outside of you and that loneliness then is diminished and can wash away.

Jim: What a great example. And there's so many great examples of our biblical patriarchs who were struggling with loneliness. Imagine how lonely Noah felt for a hundred, hundred years building the boat in the middle of a desert.

Bruce: Yeah. And he didn't have a swimming suit.

Jim: Yeah, no. I mean, and, and Paul in prison and honestly, Jesus on mission where nobody really understood what he was trying to do. I mean, just so many examples. Moses 40 years in the desert. So, but, but examples of people who just learned to grow close to God. You know, Bruce, we talked in the last podcast about how loneliness can lead to medical issues, but dealing with our medical issues can eliminate loneliness. As we take care of some of the things that slow us down and kee us from being with other people.

And some of us also who have retired from work, going back to work and eliminate loneliness as we go back. Maybe it's not to go do the same thing you did before. Maybe it's not cuz you need a paycheck. Maybe it's cuz you just wanna make some friends or pour into other people. But going back to work can eliminate some of that loneliness.

It's really important that, you know, when you're feeling lonely, often it leads to depression. The greatest way - and you've already stated this - the greatest way to get rid of depression in your life is go serve somebody else. And Bruce that's where I want us to end our podcast today. Talking about Retirement Reformation small groups. Talk to us about that.

The listeners on to our podcast today can start a small group focused on Retirement Reformation, right there in their church.

Bruce: In any church, regardless of size. There will be three to 10 couples that when they hear this message in some fashion, whether because they read the book or whatever the reasoning, hear a podcast, tell you what we're talking about, whatever - we say, you know, I do believe that God has something more for me, and I really wanna discover what that is.

And so are ready to be intentional about a process to go through that discovery and to come out the other end and then to be able to go through that discovery process in community. And so the small group allows 3, 4, 5, 6 couples or individuals say up to 10 or 11 meeting together on a regular basis.

With a coach going through the material to answer the question, how has God prepared me? And then to be able to connect that with the needs of our community needs of our families, needs of our church. And to be able to step into that, into finish a process with a plan in place. One of the things Jim that I've realized is that, you know, when, when people are asked, what are they gonna do in retirement?

And they come up with nothing. Nothing doesn't require a plan. Therefore they have no plan in place. But in fact, when you do have a plan you gotta track to run on. It'd be kinda like, you know, when I was in Europe a couple of weeks ago and used Waze as a director, it was fantastic. I was going through the town of bruise, these little streets and back alleys.

And so on. It was telling me turn right, turn left, do that. I was just so relieved that I had a, a support system that could guide me to where I needed to go in in times where I would've been just totally confused. Same issue here, and to be able to do that in community I think the, the shackles that, that will release the freedom that that will bring and the expectant joy of what is next for me will just be, you know, just, just be tremendous. That's the, that's the heart of the, of the small group of recreating retirement and it's about 10, 11 week study. And it takes some serious work, but wow. The result is fantastic.

Jim: Retirementreformation.org, go to resources, check out books. There's so many different things that you can get out there and sign the manifesto, make the commitment to turning your retirement right side up. Bruce Bruinsma with a great conversation today on the solutions for loneliness in our retirement. And next time we get together, we're gonna talk about loneliness versus solitude. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: Thanks, Jim. I'm glad we're together.

Jim: Yeah, I'm glad we're together as well.

You've been listening to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, with your host, Jim Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder. Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation, founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money. And invested all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation.org.

7/18/22 - iRetire4Him Show 66: Loneliness in Retirement, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course I'm joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Please check us out online retirementreformation.org, retiremen,reformation.org. In the United States people retire between 60 and 70 for the most. Regardless of when you will retire, ending your working life will change things often for the better, but sometimes in unexpected and even tricky ways.

Retirement may feel like a two ton weight that has been lifted from your shoulders if your former job was physically demanding, unfulfilling or left, you feeling burned out. But if you loved your work and found it truly gratifying or built your entire social life around your career, retirement could present a series of complex challenges.

Nobody wants to feel lonely during the retirement. So it's important to recognize your feelings and take steps to increase your quality of life wherever you can. Incorporating new habits, a deeper spiritual walk resulting in a fresh outlook will help you feel less isolated and alone. After you leave the workforce, your retirement years can be the best years of your life if you keep your eyes on the Lord, be honest with yourself, maintain a positive mindset and embrace this new era of your. It's a gift of time. That's yours to treasure.

Today we embark on a three part series entitled loneliness in retirement. Today we'll focus on the reality of loneliness and how to recognize it. The next podcast, we'll talk about how to overcome loneliness and our final episode of this series we'll look at the difference between loneliness and solitude and the value of solitude for, for the everyday retired believer. It's gonna be a fantastic series. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Now, Jim, it's always good to be with you and the community of listeners that we have, cuz we are never lonely now.

Jim: No, absolutely not. Bruce. We're talking about loneliness in retirement. Do you see a lot of your friends struggling with this?

Bruce: I do. And it's, it's a, it's an interesting phenomena because as humans, we are so good at masking our emotions and masking issues that are going along. And, you know, you go to church, how you doing? Oh, great. How you doing? Great. How you doing? You may not be doing great at all. And so we mask what our true feelings or circumstances are, and then there's this issue of loneliness. And there's, it's inter it's really interesting at the, I see almost an element of guilt and the element of guilt we see when, when a spouse dies and we, we need to talk about that event and how that all works together, but a, a spouse passes away. And so we see in single people in, in singles an element of loneliness that they don't want to recognize yet it, it totally impacts them.

The other just obvious point is the older we get, the smaller our world gets, unless we intentionally expand it, cuz people are dying on us.

Jim: Is that what you mean? The world gets smaller because people are dying on us. Is that what you mean?

Bruce: Yeah, exactly. And so they're dying on us. And so our, our network of friends continues to get smaller unless we are intentional about expanding it. And as it gets smaller, that loneliness, which is really, and we'll talk about that more, but it's, it's more of a, a feeling and an attitude than it is a, a functional reality.

Jim: Well, why don't we take some time to just define loneliness?

Bruce: You know, that common definition of loneliness would gently be the physical state of being alone. And yes, that is part of it. However, I will tell you that. And we'll talk about that in our third segment, some, but, you know, I have been physically alone and yet my time with God, I, I just felt so rich. I never felt alone. So it's, it's a feeling and an attitude more than it is a physical reality. Now that physical reality clearly plays a role in it, but loneliness is actually a state of mind.

Jim: And it impacts so many. You know, I've lived in Florida now, 20 plus years. And I see so many retirees, whether they're believers or not struggling with loneliness, the, the, the, a deep desire for belonging and just, just struggling with life. They just feel so alone. And it does get exacerbated when their friends go before them, pass on before them. What are some of the things that loneliness - that may arise out of loneliness in our lives?

Bruce: Have that feeling of being alone. The World is shrinking. It feels like the room is smaller and I can't find any way out. It's a focus on me. And the, and I think the very human reaction to loneliness is frustration. Some fear depression, because when we have that attitude or that feeling of being alone, there is nothing to look forward to. It is all left with your thoughts of history, the, perhaps the pain of the past, the pain of the loss of a loved one.

And so we wallow into that framework and we don't have an opportunity to see what God has planned for us yet. And so we are really, really, really alone.

Jim: Well, and I think some of the other things, Bruce really attribute to it. I mean, it's. You know, you're leaving your work that you've known for however many years you've been working. And probably since you're a teenager. It's all of a sudden, your days, you've got a lot more time on your hands and you're not hanging around people all day long. And that makes such a big difference in people's lives and this creating a new routine and finding a way to interact with people. I mean, there's, there's just, it's a, that's a deal, when people have to change so much, there's so much going on around them.

Bruce: I think there's another piece to that. And you're exactly right. But another piece to that is, is the expectations that we have. So for example, if you know, if I moved to Missouri where you were, and I bought a house in the town where you are, and my expectation was that you and I were gonna go out for breakfast and we were gonna see each other every day and we were gonna go to church together and so on.

And then I found out that actually you have another life. And in fact, I've gotta try and make my own. And so that the expectations with grandchildren, expectations with kids, expectations at church, expectations of what, how other people are gonna fill that lonesome hole in us. And then the disappointment comes because they've got lives that they're leading, and that then puts us into another realization. And that loneliness only, you know, is it right to say that loneliness can expand?

Jim: Oh, I think so.

Bruce: Yeah. I think so, too.

Jim: You made some great points. Do you think loneliness is a sign of a lack of faith?

Bruce: There's certainly that component in it. I was, I was doing a doing a devotion this morning for a group and I was reminding them in John 15 where Jesus says you are not my servant. Now I call you friend. And so when we have the omnipresence of God available to us as a friend, then in fact, there is an avenue where that physical loneliness can be absorbed into that relationship with Jesus. So if we don't have that relationship, if we don't realize that that is a, a way that we can be with someone who loves us and we can love in return and can guide us. That's I guess that would be a good definition of a lack of faith. Certainly a lack of, of relationship with Jesus.

Jim: Well, and I think it's really important to recognize that sometimes you need people around you just to help keep you help keep your proper perspective, because it may not be a lack of it because sometimes it's an overwhelming feeling.

And of course the enemy wants us to be discouraged. We're gonna talk more about this in our third segment and the next segment, of course, we always bring out a special guest and Bruce will introduce that guest right after the break. You're listening to iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges. And with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free. So you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Retirementreformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we do every second segment of the show, we always bring in a special guest that's got a story to tell about their retirement journey. Today we have Sue Ruddick. She's a retiree from DaySpring here in Siloam Springs, Arkansas, and we are here with Sue we're in the same studio, looking at each other across the screen. We're super excited to spend some time with Sue. Sue, how long have you been retired from day spring?

Sue Ruddick: I have been retired for 12 years.

Jim: Wow. So you've got a little bit of years under your belt to know what this retirement thing feels like.

Sue Ruddick: Yeah. It's a little bit of history here.

Jim: little bit. So how long did you work at DaySpring?

Sue Ruddick: 20 years.

Jim: 20 years. Mm-hmm yeah. Wow. So, okay, so you go way back. So James Barnett has been here for 41 years. So were you here before he got here?

Sue Ruddick: No.

Jim: No. Okay. All right. No, that's right. The math that wouldn't work right. Sue, most retirees know what they're retiring from, but don't know what they're retiring to. Did you?

Sue Ruddick: No, I did not. And after spending 20 years here all day long, five days a week, and then being away from all of the people that I had been used to being with. There were some adjustments and I did not know that would be coming. You know, I'm leaving, I'm gonna be doing something else. That seemed pretty simple, but it didn't turn out to be so simple.

I learned the hard way. And it was a, a lonely time because all of these people that I had been around for so many years were not there. And so I thought, okay Lord, what is it?What am I gonna do? You know, I just thought, okay, he's gonna immediately let me jump into some ministry thing somewhere and it didn't happen.

But what he began to show me was Sue, you are exhausted, you are tired, and I'm gonna give you some rest. And I thought, I don't know that I want that and, and he just politely said to me, no, you're gonna get it. And so I began just to seek what it was that he was going to do or what he was doing. I was already involved in some ministries at my church, but my heart still yearned for women's ministry in a different way.

And I didn't know what that was going to mean. And so as I walked through this, this began to walk through this post retirement time, I discovered there was a level of loneliness. There was no direction. There was lack of fulfillment. I had my grandchildren and I was active in, in their lives. And, and grandma's house was always a place where they wanted to come, but there was that sense of not doing anything purposely for the kingdom.

Jim: So talk to me about how God has used you in your retirement then. So 12 years as you've explored what God had for you, what has he shown?

Sue Ruddick: Well, during that course of that, that first year I developed a, a friendship with a lady who was a severe diabetic and she was in a wheelchair. So God just put us together. And I began to take her where she needed to go. And I, we would laugh because here I was trying to lift this wheelchair into my my big SUV. And so we developed this wonderful relationship and one day about a year into my, my retirement, she said, I think you need to be teaching women's Bible studies. And I said, okay, whoa, here.

And, and she said, in fact, I'll go with you to talk to the pastor about it. And I thought, well, she's putting me on the spot. So we did, and I talked to the minister of education and he said, I think that's a great idea. So I started teaching women's Bible studies and I taught two a week. I did one on Tuesday morning and one on Tuesday night.

And that began the springboard for me to be involved and start some women's ministries. And so that's what God has done. He's developed that and given me a platform to just speak the truths that God has taught me and shown me in his word to women. And really there are women who have retired and are walking through some of those things that I've already walked through.

Jim: So you're seeing them struggle with some of the same things you struggle with?

Sue Ruddick: Yes, yes.

Jim: Which was namely again, what?

Sue Ruddick: It was the loneliness, the separation from a complete way, a lifestyle, you know, getting up, going to work, having all these wonderful relationships around the word and working in an incredible place, like day spring, and, and then walking the path of waiting.

That's hard for all of us, waiting on God to open up the path he has for you, because it's all about his purpose. It's not about me feeling whatever. It's all about God's purpose and how he's going to use you for the kingdom. And just because I was retired, it didn't mean that God was putting me on a shelf and gonna watch me gather dust till it was my time to enter heaven. He had something for me to do. Despite my age, despite being retired. It didn't mean that I had lost all my faculties and was not gonna be of any benefit to the kingdom. So what was it?

Jim: So talk to me about what you've learned about Sue during these years, because that's, what's what we've seen so much in people who retire is they learn something new about themselves. Because when everything normal, everything they're used to gets pulled away, all of a sudden everything they're comfortable with is gone. They find a new rawness in themselves and they have to kind of not reinvent themselves, but just understand new things about themselves. What did you learn about you?

Sue Ruddick: I learned that I had to wait on God. I mean, I mean, those are things we all know these things, but then we start learning them to a depth that we haven't known them before and waiting on God to bring what he has for you to do and what he's working in me. He was teaching me his truth about who he really was.

We hear statements. God is love. God is just, and those are all true statements. But when you start drilling down into that, how does that play out in your life? And even in leaving day spring, there were levels of issues that I did not even think about, like preparing for retirement. I really didn't have an opportunity to prepare for retirement. I have since learned what people should be doing and there's levels to preparing for retirement.

Jim: Well, and we're gonna pick that up on a future podcast, that whole preparing thing, because I wanted to capture your experience. Talk to me about the, the people involved in your transition. Are you married?

Sue Ruddick: Yes.

Jim: Okay. So you you've got your husband, you've got kids. You've already mentioned grandkids. They were all involved in your transition in your retirement. How did they struggle with your transition in retirement?

Sue Ruddick: Oh, they didn't. Oh, grandma had more time. So one of, one of the things I had taught children and written children's curriculum for several years. And so my passion was to, was to pour into my grandchildren to make sure they knew scripture, that they came to know the Lord as their personal savior. And so I would, every summer I would have grandma camp for a week and, and I would teach vacation Bible school and I would have all eight of them. And we, we played and we, we read, we read scripture, we went to vacation Bible school, and every night we had them bedded downstairs, all eight of them in the floor.

And we had prayer time. So they were learning to pray, however simple their children's prayers were, but they heard each other pray. So it became, first of all, my heart was to, was to pour into them Christ and my husband thought it was great because I was around the house and doing the cooking and he retired a couple years after I did.

Jim: Yeah. That's probably a whole nother show, when your husband retired.

Sue Ruddick: It was.

Jim: There's a book about that one spouse in the house. Okay. When you look at all the skills that you developed over the 20 years here at DaySpring, how have you seen God use those skills, those gifts, talents, and abilities that he refined here at DaySpring? How have you seen God use those in your retirement?

Sue Ruddick: Listening. And working in HR, you need to listen to people. You hear the words, but what are you really hearing from them? So it tempers your quick reaction to some things. You learn that God's got it and I need to back away and let him take it. He can let me be a part of it. And having worked in human resources for those years, you learn so much about human nature, but you just see what God has.

Jim: The good and the bad.

Sue Ruddick: The good and the bad. Yes. But he's a Redeemer, you know, and in working with people who are struggling in, in the workplace, you can, you can in a place like Dayspring, you can share with them scripture, you can pray with them. And over a period of time, you can actually see God redeeming that life and how he's rebuilding it. And so all of those things build into you hope and encouragement and trust in the Lord.

Jim: I love that. That's fantastic. Sue Ruddick thank you so much for joining us on iRetire4Him.

Sue Ruddick: You're welcome.

Jim: I look forward to bringing you back to capture a little bit more of that story. Certainly the prepping conversation as well, and maybe some of that loneliness to a little deeper level. Thanks again for being on iRetire4Him today.

Sue Ruddick: Thank you, Jim.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement.

iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore: retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org. Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation.

Please check us out online retirementreformation.org, retiremen,reformation.org, Bruce, we're talking about loneliness today. Have you ever thought about, do you think Jesus experienced loneliness?

Bruce: I think he had a plan, a method, a process to be able to fill that loneliness. And, and I think we'll talk about solitude and again, our third subject, but all the times that he stepped away and it was like, he was overwhelmed by the people and he needed that time alone, but he was never alone because it was during those times that he spoke to his father and he says, you know, only things I ever did is what he told me to do.

And that telling of what to do came in those, those moments of intimacy with the father. And I think intimacy with God is not a time that you will feel alone. It is when we are not intimate. It's like with Judy, you know, and our listeners, when you, when you're at a point and you have a, an emotional separation for, for whatever reason for a day, or for a couple of days, You feel that sense of, of loneliness and wanting to reach out, but being afraid to do it. And so that connectivity, that relationship - without it you are very much then into yourself and loneliness just becomes worse.

Jim: Well, I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but you, you know, you get in big crowds all the time. You speak. And sometimes even in a big crowd, you can be lonely. And Jesus was surrounded by a lot of people, but very few of them actually understood his mission.

So he was alone in his mission. So I imagine cuz he was a hundred percent human, it says he experienced all the same emotions we did. I imagine he did experience loneliness. So Bruce, who do you think... Go ahead.

Bruce: I was just gonna say, you know, one of the things in my conversation with hundreds and hundreds of, of pastors over the years, particularly lead pastors or senior pastors of churches. What I've found is that they often will, will explain how lonely their position is. They may be preaching to 200, 300, 500, a thousand people a week. They may be, you know, out in calls. But there's nobody that they feel that they can, that they can really relate to. And therefore they are loneliness inside the crowd.

Jim: Yeah. It's lonely at the top. We've heard that many times. And, and a lot of the shows that we've done is just that leaders, leaders feel alone because they can't live their life with other people cuz they're leading. Who do you think struggles more with loneliness in retirement, men or women? What do you think?

Bruce: That is a really really good question. I suppose the easy answer is, you know, both the same. But I, I'm not sure that that's true.

Jim: Well let me help you out here. Research indicates that women in retirement struggle with loneliness more than men. Has Judy said anything about that?

Bruce: Only from an interesting perspective is, is she's not lonely because you know, we've got each other and, and you know, the, the relationships that we have. But she has, she has voiced said, you know, if you die before I do, then what am I going to do? And, and, and a loneliness is, is a component of that. There are other components also, but I think honestly, expressing the change in our circumstance and thinking about that is one of the ways to deal with those issues.

And, and we've had any number of conversations about that, where she is in the process of working her own way through should that be the circumstance. And so I think that's very healthy.

Jim: So what do you think some of the signs are of - well, we did some research. What are some of the signs that we found out that are signs of loneliness in women?

Bruce: Well, you've got the issues of, of, you know, that loss of self-confidence because of loss of relationship. You've got that you do have a feeling of, of struggling, of isolation and, and in some ways ineptness because a woman's husband does certain things and when he's not there, that responsibility rests with her. And some women embrace that and, and engage with it. But many had just, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do now?

Jim: It's, it's funny. Some of the research actually shows some of the same things that cause struggles for teenage ladies. So like having a negative, self-image, comparing themselves to other retired women, feelings of restlessness. Really just a lack of self confidence, doubting oneself. I mean, those, those image things that seems like, you know, we struggled with in high school, we're back struggling with them again that caused loneliness and retirement. What else have you seen?

Bruce: Well, one of the other things that I've seen is the, the increased stress that they seem to put on themselves, and a looking for answers sometimes in all the wrong places. But Focusing on a problem and not either letting it go or finding a solution. And so again, it's that internal focus on the problem that then creates that, that attitude of, of loneliness, depression. And then we see all the things that are happening in the, you know, in the, in the gray time of life.

Jim: Right. All right. So let's switch that over to men. What are some of the signs of loneliness in men?

Bruce: Singularity wardrobe. They always wear the same thing.

Jim: Well, it's much easier when our wives pick out our clothes.

Bruce: And so it's a, again, it's a diminishing of self image and a lack of being all that they can be. And being willing to settle for less than they can be.

Jim: So that, is that related to purpose? I mean, having a, a loss of purpose?

Bruce: Clearly a loss of purpose. Too much time in front of the TV. You know, it's interesting. One of the, one of the restaurants that I go to here is kind of a man's restaurant and it's so refreshing to be able to see, you know, 5, 6, 7 guys, bunch of gray haired guys on a Wednesday morning, nine o'clock getting together and you sit down, you chat with 'em for a bit. And, and what you find is that that may be the only social interaction they have for the whole week. Yeah. And, and that's, you know, that is that again, takes loneliness to to another level.

Jim: We uncovered some other things - disconnected from loved ones when people feel lonely, engaging in risky behavior, increased aggression, just inner frustration that comes up because people are lonely. And of course, abusing substances.

Bruce: I was gonna say, drug alcohol and drugs becomes in, in an older group. It's generally more alcohol than it is drugs, but although we see an increasing number there. But it's a way of self-medicating right? To get rid of the pain.

Jim: And, and let's talk about that because there's some, there's some physical things that come along, physical health issues that come along with loneliness as well.

Bruce: Well, there are, and as you either, don't go to the doctor and continue to, you know, have some health issues or you do go to the doctor and you get what it is that you need to do. And, and it's in that process, it's generally not good news. You don't leave the doctor's office where him saying, man, you're in fantastic shape, go out and, you know, play 18 and, and you know, hike up the incline trail here in Colorado Springs. It's it's the opposite. And so all of the messaging that comes reinforces those negative feelings and those are directly connected to loneliness.

Jim: Well, in fact, they, they gave us a list when we did some research that, you know, some of the negative effects on physical and mental health, alcohol and drug misuse, altered brain function. Loneliness can drive to altered brain function, Alzheimer's disease progression, antisocial behavior, () some of us have that naturally), cardiovascular disease and stroke, decreased memory and learning depression, suicide and increased stress levels. So there's all kinds of those negative things that, that impact our health when we become lonely. So we need to do that.

So let's, let's talk about the Retirement Reformation. How does involvement in the Retirement Reformation help our friends or listeners deal with loneliness in retirement? Because you've got a solution tothis.

Bruce: You do, and it's God's solution. It's not ours. And it's a matter of implementing it, knowing it. It's it's amazing the amount of information that's available to all of us that we ignore, that we don't absorb. And we don't engage with that. We, we learned what are the antidotes to all of these negative things that we're talking about.

Matter of fact, I think it would be accurate to say that virtually all of the downhill issues that are depressing and so on in the aging process, the antidote to each and every one of them is finding new meaning and purpose and relationships in conjunction with it. So finding meaning and purpose. When you have, when you have meaning and purpose, then in fact, one of the results of that is that you will be interacting with others to positively impact their life, which has the wonderful result of taking that loneliness and setting it over on the shelf. In allowing us to look forward to each day, each week, each month and each succeeding year.

Jim: Yeah. What's great about that is that also your Retirement Reformation groups that you've set up, the small group studies that you've set up to put, to get going within churches. All of that will help re eliminate loneliness by bringing people together to have a common cause living out their faith in their retirement and sharing that idea, that ideal with many others.

It's a fantastic solution. I just encourage all of our listeners to check us out online retirementreformation.org, Bruce, you've got the ability to come out to a church and discuss setting up Retirement Reformation groups. You've got weekends retreats that you teach. There's a lot of ways to get churches and small groups involved in this, isn't there?

Bruce: There are, and the, all it takes is a phone call or an email. And that starts the process. What happens is that when we have that small flicker of light, when one person says, you know, we could be doing more, let's explore what we can do. And then that light can just simply shine and, and continue to grow. There's there's 40 million people who need to hear this conversation and then take the step that shines light on loneliness and brings relationship to fruition.

Jim: That step is: go out to retirementreformation.org, check us out, contact us, and we will be in touch with you. Retiremenreformation.org. Thank you, Bruce Bruinsma.

Bruce: Thanks Jim.

Jim: You've been listening to iRetire4Him, a podcast dedicated to you, our retired listeners and iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg of course, Bruce Bruinsma with the founder of the Retirement Reformation has been with us this whole time talking about loneliness.

We'll be back in a couple weeks with our podcast release on solutions to loneliness, but remember this. We're Christ followers, journeying from reformation, from retirement to reformation. Well, I've done this close a lot better than this before, but we ultimately, all we wanna really say is iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth. College and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life. Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation.org.

7/4/22 - iRetire4Him Show 65: Working After 60, Part 3

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation so you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, online at retirementreformatio.Org I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And I'm joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

You could also check us out on Facebook, Facebook, retirement reformation. Hey, wasn't it huey Lewis who sung working for a living, living and working. I'm taking what they've given, cuz I'm working for a living? But really why do we leave our homes? Our places of rest and relaxation. Why do we go to work?

Well, most of us go because we love to work. Work gives us purpose. Work pays for things we love. Work provides for our family. Now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Well, welcome to iRetire4Him as today, Bruce and I venture out on week three of three in a series on Working After 60. Last week, we talked about wanting to work.

This week, we're covering working as a volunteer. Some of us don't need to work for a living anymore, but we still want to work since we all know that retirement isn't biblical. We hope this conversation helps you determine best how to serve your local community through volunteering in the years, following 60. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim.It's good to be back. And the subject to volunteering is a, is a huge one. And as we try to kind of get our arms around it and perhaps provide some encouragement to our listeners for areas where this kind of work will be relevant to them. And in fact, I remember if I remember correctly, you can, you can correct me, but in, in your book iWork4Him, you talk about working in your neighborhood and volunteering there. Can you, can you unpack a little bit of that for us?

Jim: Sure. And that's in the book iRetire4Him. And, and what we really talk about is the fact that, you know, some of us don't have to work and some of us don't need to make a paycheck. And in fact, some of us may be limited to just hanging out in our local community or that's where we choose to have our ministries in our local community.

One of the things I talk about Bruce, is that so many of our retired friends tend to move into neighborhoods full of people 55 plus, because I don't know. Because that's what people do. My challenge in my book is to move into a retirement full of young families because all of those young families desperately need somebody chronologically superior to them that can pour their lives into.

So many young families that Martha and I have interacted with don't have access to parents. Don't have access to grandparents. Don't have access to people who can teach them how to fix things, plan things. They don't know how to raise children because they were raised heavily dysfunctionally and so I just re encourage them. Your ministry as a volunteer can start right there in your own neighborhood. Right where you live and sleep every day.

Bruce: You know, I was just trying to think of a, perhaps of an old formula that that could be of some guidance, both to our conversation, as well as to our listeners. And it's that old adage, you know, do what, find a need and fill it, find a hurt and heal it and find somebody to love and just flat love on them. You know, in every neighborhood that fits a, a, a picture of needs that are there. When Jesus said, said, you know, love your neighbor, man. There are neighbors with hurts all around us. And we don't have to go very far to find them.

Jim: No, that is for sure. They live behind you. They live in front of you. They live next to you. They live caddy corner to you. They live in the next cul-de-sac over, but they're living near you, you know?

And Bruce, I think it's a matter of understanding it. Some people like we've talked about in the past couple of podcasts, some people have to stay at work because they need the money. Some people want to continue working and get a paycheck, but just enjoy what they're doing. And some people are like, you know what? I don't need that stuff, but I want to spend my time living on purpose for a purpose. And I wanna volunteer. And a lot of us, as we get into our forties, fifties, and sixties, we've identified with local organizations that are making an impact. And Bruce, that's a place where we can choose to volunteer. Isn't it?

Bruce: It certainly is. As a matter of fact, my suggestion is, is. As you identify one, two or more areas where yousay, oh, that's really, Hey, I, I can be passionate about that. And you step into that. What you'll find is that God will then continue that help you continue that journey. And you may find your way that you're volunteering for now an organization that deals with part of that issue, but that's really where your heart is.

Or you may find that there is another related area that really, that really connects with you. Let me - just a quick story. friend of mine who retired had no idea what he was gonna do. And I asked him, I said, so what do you get passionate about? He says, well, yeah, I think kids. I said, okay, why don't you call up your youth pastor and see if you can hang out with some of the kids in the youth group. He says, huh, never thought of that. Yeah, I'll go do that. So he went and did that.

Then that youth group was gonna go on a mission trip. And they went on a mission trip to Africa. When they got to Africa, there was a whole bunch of kids, but there were a bunch of disabled kids. And man that just really touched his heart. Long story short, three years later, he and his wife moved from where they were to Africa to help work at and support a mission for kids that are disabled in that country. It all started with, I don't know what I'm gonna do. What would you think you'd like to start? Why don't you talk to some kids and God will direct our paths.

Jim: You know, so many of our great nonprofit organizations around the country are in desperate need of the wisdom that retirees can bring, but they couldn't afford to hire them because they're working on a shoestring budget as too many of our Christian nonprofits do.

But Bruce, there's a, there's a way we should work. Isn't there. There's. We know a lot of stuff, but not everybody wants to know what we know right away. What's the best way for us to work after 60?

Bruce: You know, that's a really good question. And I don't think that we have, have investigated that fully enough. And hopefully we can do another whole session on that at some point. But let me just tell you where it seems to me where we are at this point in our understanding about that. And, and it, it, it starts with a realization that we're reflecting Jesus to the world. It's not about me. It's not about you. It's about reflecting Jesus.

And so finding a degree of compassion, a degree of humbleness, a degree of yet intentional energy, and to find that that mix of those things, which are different than when you're in a job, whether you're a manager or a worker or whatever. It is a different dynamic and, and the relationship part of it becomes even, I don't know if it's more important.

It seems to me like it's more important. The, the relationship part of what it is you're doing when you're being introduced to, or stepping into an organization as my as my grandfather used to say, you do know why you have two ears and one mouth.

Jim: Wow. Your grandfather, I would've liked him. You know, we're talking about volunteering today and how to do it with a level of intentionality. When we come back, you're gonna hear some stories of some guys who are volunteering to impact the next generation of retirees. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your hosts, Jim Brangenberg and Bruce Bruinsma from the Retirement Reformation. Check us out online retirementreformation.org, Bruce and I'll be back in one more segment to finish up talking about how do we choose where to retire or to volunteer in our retirement years, Working After 60 we'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org and click on the membership tab. Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today.

The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement, reformation.org. Let's get back to more. iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation online at retirementreformation.org, Bruce, the second segment of every iRetire4Him podcast is always filled with special guests or guests that have a story to tell. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Jim, we've got two really special people that I've gotten to know. And over the last six months, when they were kind enough to reach out to me and say, perhaps we have some things that we can learn from each other and that we can talk about.

So I wanna introduce you to Ron Klein and Scott Martin. So just very quickly, Ron, just give us a, a quick executive summary of what took you to the place where we were able to have a conversation, but kind of give us just a little executive summary of, of Ron Klein and the pathway that God's has you on.

Ron Klein: I sold my company when I was 63 and I thought, okay, a little bit early to be retired, but let's see what happens now. And then within 60 days, God had me in another assignment that I didn't really pick, but he picked it for me. Five years later, I'm retired again. And so I've had to Wade through this to figure out these issues.

Well, who am I? What, what's my value? What's my purpose? What's my identity? And so I've waded through that and sort of picked at it myself to try to sort it out. And then I encountered Scott who I'm working on this to teach men how to go through this process and it requires greater intentionality. And so I partnered up with Scott to help men have a little bit better map than I did.

Bruce: Well, that's a, you know, God has a trajectory and he always prepares us for what's next, whether we're aware of it at the time or not as that case may be. Scott, give us just a little executive summary on how, how God has taken you on the journey.

Scott Martin: Well, my background really is a participant and a leader to men's ministry in small groups. And so I'm real familiar with the challenges that men have really at all stages of life. And so I was working on a - I'm a halftime graduate as well - a halftime program. And so I was working with a local men's ministry to implement that into their offering, and then COVID happened.

And then because of COVID and some challenges there, and God really opening my eyes, we opened the aperture and started looking at retirement as a much broader base of of men who need, need some help and guidance.

Bruce: So how is it that you believe that your working together will bring greater strength than either one of you working by yourself? And I'll start with Ron. What's your answer to that one and give you a chance to reflect on it, Scott.

Ron Klein: I'll give a twofold answer. One is scott and I bracket sort of this age range, I've already sort of halfway through. I'm 73. And so I've waded through much of this and had to figure it out on my own. Scott is not yet into full time retirement. And so we both bring a different perspective, but we, just like most great partnerships, we have different skills. I'm more analytical and deliberate and Scott's a much better facilitator and better with relationships than I.

Bruce: So Scott yeah. What, what's your answer to that? And how does that represent perhaps a picture of the church?

Scott Martin: It's a perfect picture of the church. You know, I, I my, my experience is with men, but not necessarily retirement, I'll be 59 this year. And so mine is theoretical. I, I have not walked in Ron's shoes. And so he brings an incredible wealth of talent and experience and real world opinions to what I state theoretically. And many, many times he'll say, well, let me tell you exactly what that looks like. And he does it from a, a person who's lived it.

Bruce: Now, one of the things that amazes me is. Is how, you know, God brings experiences to us individually, but then he also brings relationships together and those relationships bring something much stronger and broader. So Scott, let me go to you. What, what are the next steps that you're taking to be able to engage with men that are in that retirement, that 30 year period? And, and what are the steps that you're beginning to take there to, to, you know, bring those conversations to reality?

Scott Martin: What we're doing is we're developing a program for men where we walk through them in a moderate pace, nine month period, of what we identify as the seven main challenges that men face in retirement. And we're gonna do that through different methods, but primarily it's a small group of men who we, we believe will develop community and not only learn and be inspired by the things we present to them and the questions we ask and the workbooks they do, but also from the community that they form. Cause we're going to have other believers in the room who can contribute real world experience. And so we're gonna provide the setting, but they're gonna provide a lot of the wisdom themselves, honestly.

Bruce: So Ron, when you, when you talk about, I believe you said there were seven key issues, pick one of those issues and, and just kind of expand a little bit upon how you see that as being important and impactful.

Ron Klein: I'll just, I'll pick identity. So who are we? Uh, Thus far in our lives, we've been predominantly identified by a profession. When someone comes up to you and introduces themselves, they say, hi, how are you? What do you do? Right. I mean, that's the most common question. And so, we say, I'm an engineer, I'm an account, I'm a physician.

We, we identify. And other people identify. I mean, it's kind of rightfully. Are you a big picture person or what, what are the kind of things you're interested in? So I can start a conversation. What that does is it really leads us all to identify ourselves by our profession, by our standing. And so once we retire now, I'm not now.

What are you? What's your identity? Who are you? What, what, what value do you have? Are you contributing or are you just taking? And so to Scott's point, why have we elected a nine month program? We think it's, it's gonna take a month to sort through identity. We'll give you a workbook assignment, you go back and answer questions and you're stumped by them.

And you ask your wife and you pray about them and then you come back for group discussion and some conversation. But you can't really do that quickly. That's a, that's a hard task to identify who you are now.

Bruce: You know, that kind of sounds like work.

Ron Klein: That's right. To Scott's point I'll second Scott's point. This requires intentionality, I think far too many people aren't interested in the topic because are you kidding? I'm gonna be retired. It's Nirvana. Everything's gonna be great from that point forward. But if you're going to do this well, it does require intentionality.

Bruce: Well, and I think the you know, if you're not planning to do anything, you don't need a plan.

Ron Klein: Yeah. That that's exactly right.

Bruce: But God has, God has a plan for, for each of us. Scott, I'll ask you one that we haven't talked about befor. And extend out five years, maybe 10 years. What do you see the potential impact of this kind of mens ministry can have on the kingdom?

Scott Martin: Well, it's our, I'm gonna speak for Ron too, but it's our, our sincere desire to get these men engaged. Ultimately, we, we don't want just an academic exercise. And so the, these, the church needs these men desperately and the, and the world needs these men desperately. And they are a wealth of wisdom and experience, and it's our passion, I think just as yours to get them back in the game. And to realize that at 65 they have a lot of time left.

Bruce: The next 30 years.

Jim: I wanna know what's it called. We've talked about this great nine month program, but I don't know what it's called.

Scott Martin: We named it Renewing Retirement.

Jim: Renewing Retirement. Where do we find it online?

Scott Martin: Well, you can go to the ministry where underneath it is vantageconnect.org. And you can click on the group tab and click on Renewing Retirement and you can see a little picture of what we're doing.

Jim: And eventually you're gonna get your own website, Renewing Retirement.com. That would be a great one! Renewing Retirement. And where could people find? I mean, if it's not online, is there, are there Renewing Retirement groups happening across the country right now?

Scott Martin: Well, we're in the development stage, honestly.

Ron Klein: Yeah, we're sorting this out. We're experimenting. We're in Scott calls the beta program. So October 6th is our first class in a nine month program. And so we don't have it polished yet. We're trying to sort this out and figure out how to do it. And we're pretty confident. We've done a lot of steps not right. And we've done some adjustments, but we're pretty confident at this point that a nine month program with a different topic for each month is the right format for these.

Jim: So do you have the, your appropriate number of Guinea pigs for the first, the inaugural year of Renewing Retirement? Do you have 'em all lined up yet. And what city is it gonna be in?

Scott Martin: Well, we both live in Huntsville, Alabama. Okay. And so our first groups will be here. We are targeting eight to 10 men.

We think that's the right number for what we're doing as, as a first round. Beyond that we're, we're open to see where God, God leads us.

Now our,

Bruce: our, our, my request to our audience is to hold both of these men up in prayer. They're obviously very thoughtful and intentional, but they're in the early stages of development, what God is calling them to do. And so I think it's a wonderful model for many other kinds of activities that our audience can think of that there is a need. They've identified a real key need, and they've been very, they're being very intentional about stepping into it and are open to making changes as they go along.

And it would be my, be my prayer at 10 years from now, there will be a hundred, maybe a thousand of these kinds of groups impacting men and being able to build off from the foundation that God has built into the lives of Ron and of Scott. So I just want to thank you guys for the willingness to step into the issue, the way that you've approached it, and our prayers are with you. And we hope to have many interviews and to be able to work alongside with you. Jim, is there any other last questions?

Jim: My biggest thing is just when you guys get through that first month of October. And you've got your first people that have gone through identity. Let's bring one of them on so they can talk about Renewing Retirement and the impact on their lives. Just understanding identity. Boy, we'd love to have you guys back on here. Thank you so much, Ron Klein, Scott Martin from Renewing Retirement. Thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today.

Bruce: Thank you, gentlemen.

Jim: You're listening to iRetire4Him and we'll be right back continuing our conversation on Working After 60: volunteering.

Break: Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now.

I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed - let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore - retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org.

Jim: Welcome back to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece with Retirement Reformation as Bruce and I are talking about Working After 60: volunteering. Bruce when we don't have to go to work and we don't want to work for a paycheck, we still need to keep occupied because sitting still and relaxed all the time can kill a guy, can't it?

Bruce: Oh, absolutely. It's the most deadly thing in the world. As a matter of fact, all our resear h, Jim, shows that loneliness is the single biggest issue. And one of the best ways to combat loneliness is to be engaged with others. One of the ways to find meaning is to be able to pour yourself in one form or another, into helping someone else.

And so this whole idea of volunteering has, has multidimensions to it. As a matter of fact, one of the dimensions that it has is, is I think it changes somewhat based upon the stages that you are in retirement. Whether in fact, you're at that early stage, where in fact, in fact, you may be able, willing and need to volunteer, but to give, you know, really strong leadership to something in that second stage, we had a, had a guest that talked about that about the, this stage. And, and we call it mentoring where in fact, you are going to be a resource to others.

So volunteering in ways that that resource comes. And then when we talk about in the, the last stage between, you know, 85 and a hundred. Again, volunteering, but it may take again another, a whole nother look in a way that you're bringing all the experiences that you have into the lives of others. But that's the key at all those stages, you're bringing God's experience that he's put you through and the ways he's created you into the lives of others.

Jim: I just think way too often, we as people over 60, we know we've got value to bring. But not every, we think that people don't wanna hear it, but there's a way to present what we know to those people who are maybe younger than us. There's a right approach, and there's a wrong approach. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: Yeah, there sure is. And that's true in all relationships. But the ability to learn, to ask the right question and then to ask the right follow up question, and then to be able to listen. And if in fact you have permission to be able to speak into the issue then to do it with a certain humbleness, but then a clarity. I think there's a formula there that that is worth considering and following.

Jim: Living with the level of intentionality in our retirement, as we volunteer looks lots of different ways. You know, some of that volunteer work could actually be, you could volunteer working at a corporation. But a lot of times we think of volunteering within a nonprofit or a local community focused ministry where we're passionate about. Whether it would be a, a, a pregnancy clinic or a food shelter or a a homeless shelter or wherever your passion may be.

Maybe it is, you know, it's, it is funny. You just met somebody recently, who is my age, mid fifties, who just is entering the foster care system, cuz they wanna help take care of kids who don't have parents. And they're doing it because their kids are gone and their grandkids are not nearby and they wanna invest in some younger kids. There's a lot of opportunities on how to plug in. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: The opportunities kind of fit in, become maybe two different - more than that probably - but at least two different basic categories. One is to affiliate with an organization that has a mission for which you are passionate and to be able to step in and be of help there and whatever that looks like.

And, and then the other one is, is that individual volunteering and, and to pick up on what you were talking about to, you know, go to your church leadership and say, could you identify for me six or seven single moms in the congregation that I would be willing, we would be willing to make ourselves available to babysit for them while they go do things that they can't do, because they're a, a single parent? There's no organization involved with that. It's a one to one relationship filling a real need, finding that hurt and really filling it.

Jim: Well. And if you take my idea that we talked about in the first segment of moving into a neighborhood full of young families, or maybe you've stayed in your neighborhood, And all of your friends have moved off into those 55 plus communities, and you stay to be that wise old family to invest in all the young families moving in.

And they may not look the same as the young families were when you first moved in. But there's such a desperate need for these young families today, Bruce, to get people who are over 60 to invest in their lives for simple things like learnin how to cook, learning how to clean, learning how to change a light fixture or a faucet, learning how to take care of a car, learning how to raise children, learning how to discipline children.

Bruce, what we see in the generations that are thirties and forties is they didn't get a lot of interaction with people older than them because of divorce, because of moving away from family. There's a need for us, just living out our faith in our neighborhood.

Bruce: For those of us that have stayed married. Judy and I are coming on 60 years.

Jim: Praise God! For Judy 60 years with you, that's amazing.

Bruce: You know, what a wonderful woman talk about patience and kindness and gentleness and self control. That's all right there. But I, I, I, I think you, the point that you made is because, you know, 50% of our, our marriages end up in divorce.

And, and so that the kids have a whole, they, they have a view of marriage and relationship, which needs to have additional models that they can choose from and they can choose to adopt and they can connect with, and they can learn from.

Jim: Yeah, most of the young people in the next generations, generation X, the millennials, the digital gen, they don't think that marriage is even possible. So they're not even getting married anymore because they don't think it can work and we need to show them that it can work. Bruce, how can Retirement Reformation help our listeners figure out where's the best place for them to volunteer?

Bruce: I think the, the word intentionality comes to mind in, in the, the support materials that are there. Whether we're talking about prayer, whether we're talking about a study. Whether we're talking about multiple different books, ones that you've written ones that I've written and others that speak into these issues, the, the, the development of the things that we saw with Ron and, and, and, and, and helping men to understand what, what their additional roles can be during this retirement age.

I think we don't understand ourselves very well, and that we fall into the trap of nothing. And as we decide to step out of that trap and under the pathway to a life that God has appointed to us, that those opportunities to find a need and fill it, find a hurt and heal it, find somebody to love and be an example of it will present themselves. And the key is to be intentional and to perseve.

Jim: What a great series this has been of conversations of Working After 60. Whether you have to work, whether you want to work or whether you're choosing to volunteer, all of it can be done with a level of intentionality that will make an impact on all of those around you. For your faith, to drip on them, for your faith, to explode on them and for them to see that living and Working After 60 and loving Jesus really can provide a level of satisfaction in life that they can't find without him. Bruce Bruinsma, thanks for being an iRetire4Him today.

Bruce: It's been a great series. I look forward to the next one.

Jim: Yeah, it's always a lot of fun. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. Of course, Bruce Bruinsma was the founder of the Retirement Reformation. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma.

iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life.

Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto@retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot.

6/20/22 - iRetire4Him Show 64: Working After 60, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the retirement reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma check us out online: retirementreformation.org, retiremen,reformation.org.

Wasn't it. The seven dwarves who sung high ho high ho is home from work we go? But really why do we leave our homes, our places of rest and relaxation. Why do we go to work? Well, most of us go because we love to work. Work gives us purpose work pays for things we love work provides for our family.

But now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Welcome to iRetire4Him as today. Bruce Bruinsma I venture out on week two of three in a series on working after 60. Last week, we talked about having to work this week.

We'll cover wanting to work and next week we'll cover volunteering. Since we all know that retirement is a biblical, we hope this conversation helps you determine best how to serve your local community in the years. Following 60 Bruce, Bruinsma welcome back to iRetire4Him,

Bruce: Jim. It's good to be here in, in this middle segment of, of the three that we're doing hopefully will be as impactful as that first one was. I'm anxious as we jump into this conversation.

Jim: Yeah. It was a lot of fun, especially that middle segment on the last, the last podcast with Dr. Sharen Ford talking about what was that exercising our muscle of advocacy. I got, that's gonna be great. That's the show. If you missed last week, show number 63 of iRetire4Him, make sure you go back and listen to that.

All right, Bruce, since choosing to work is different than having to work, but it all means we have to leave our home to do that. What's difference between having to work and wanting to work?

Bruce: I think the underlying assumption in that question is that there is a significant difference and that one is harder or more painful or less pleasurable.

And the other one is less painful and more pleasure because you're making that decision. Now, I think one of the questions that it'd be worthwhile us discussing does it have to be that way. And I think last week we touched on some of that, but perhaps it worth now, does it have to be that way? And does it, I have to go to work is the, is the pain and the, the struggle and the depression and the, oh my gosh, do I have to get up today?

I don't think it has to be that way, but I think for many people it is. And yet when, in fact we don't have to, but yet choose to. There is an easier access to joy along with some freedom.

Jim: It's that level of intentionality, whether we have to work or whether we are wanting to work that level of intentionality, to know that God gave us that ability to work as a gift.

And that when we work, we have the opportunity to glorify our father and have an end to expand the kingdom right here on earth. What are some of the things that your friends give as examples for why they are choosing to work well past retirement age?

Bruce: You know, and I'll speak for myself first. Okay you know, it's simply that God has put into my heart and the hearts of many, a passion for a subject or a need or an issue that, that he has uniquely prepared us to speak into, to journey along with, to engage with. And it is, it is that passion that gets us up in the morning, even though our knees. And it takes a little bit longer to get to that first cup of coffee, but that is it's, it's an issue of the passion that he has put in us for a given set of circumstances or, or an issue. That's one.

Jim: All right. So you, you go to church, you're in a small group full of people that are, some are retired, some are not retired. Some are back to work, some are not back to work. How many of your friends have retired and stopped working? And then said, you know what, I'm going back to work. I need to work. I wanna work. How many of them, he got one example of a friend that said, Nope, I'm going back?

Bruce: Well, it's interesting if, if we had had this conversation, oh, let's say five years ago.

I would've said, eh, I don't think I know where many have said that. Now that's changing and it's changing for two reasons. Number one, the realization that nothing is not very meaningful and so doing nothing doesn't bring meaning and value. And so then they, they, then my, some of about five or six of my friends have looked back and said, where did I get the most joy in, in, in my activity?

And then it was actually in my job, my, my work that I did or work that now I've discovered that I can do. And, and so it's, it's. There are more people going back to work who don't have to, but choose to.

Jim: Well, and those people, all their wives got together. All your buddies, their wives got together and said, please, please, will you encourage my husband to go back to work? He's driving me crazy.

Bruce: Yeah, there, there is certainly there's there's that, as a matter of fact, I'll be doing a, a workshop on this coming Saturday that a good portion of it deals with that issue of, of creating new relationships in these new timeframes and these new circumstances. Yeah. And it's, that has a lot of complexity to it.

And sometime just simply getting out of the house. Now we were with a group of friends the other night, And I, and, and in one of the conversations the wife said, I can't tell you how excited I am. And gentleman's name is Jim happens to be he said, I am so happy that Jim has found something other than golf, that he can apply himself to where he is making a difference in the lives of others. And he's getting out of the house about 9:30 in the morning.

Jim: And that story could be repeated a million, well, probably 40 million times over, I think. Way too many retirement age people are leaving the workforce, Bruce, this is, this is from my perspective and I'm not quite there yet. I'm in my mid fifties.

And what I've seen is what happens to companies when the wisdom vault is left, open and spills out the front door, when people retire, what are people who are running these organizations, thinking, letting people retire. I. I would bet most of those people would take, you know, a lot of times people get forced out because they wait, make too much money.

I would bet they'd take a reduced salary just to stay. And how much better would the organization be if the, if those chronologically superior people would stick around with their wisdom, what kind of impacts have you seen in your experience where you've seen a lot of exit of people over 60 leaving and how much it damages companies.

Bruce: I can think of three different companies right now. I won't name them, but, but where the, the exodus over the last, yeah, probably five years has, has just hurt them. Both, you know, their financially their bottom line, the relationships with customers the understanding of the marketplace and what needs yet to be fulfilled.

Those are all gone and they're having to recreate themselves from scratch without any of that benefit. Now we also, we, we, we have a private equity fund, so we invest in new startup companies. Three of those companies, as intentionally, part of it are bringing on staff, people that are over 65 and bring them on as mentors to their young staff, as they're developing these new, fantastic products. I think that's just really fantastic.

Jim: And there's opportunities like that everywhere. There are 10 million jobs out there and available. And if you want to work, you can take, you could pick and choose. Maybe you don't wanna go where you have been for the last 20 or 30 or 40 years, but there's a place for you.

And your wisdom is desperately needed as somebody working over. Ain't nobody who's 20 who knows what you know. You're listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. We'll be right back with our second segment with our special guest Ron Henry. Hang on for just a minute.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training. To bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org, and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free, so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Retirementreformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him!

Jim: And welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we jump into segment two, Bruce, every segment two, we always highlight the story of somebody limit out their faith in their quote, unquote, retirement years. Who do you have for us today, Bruce?

Bruce: Well, it's just a pleasure to have Ron Henry with us today. And Ron is a, a special case, but I'm gonna start off with just a really simple question for you. Why aren't you retired?

Ron Henry: Well, I think there's, there's a key element here that I realized in my background more than anything else is that when I got saved later in life, I learned it was about a relationship, not, not a, a, a to-do list. And I really expanded that and I realized that life is not a formula.

And then, and what, and I looked around myself and, and, you know, life is a relationship. And then I, then I, then I, God brought in, brought an amazing gentleman into my life in, back in the mid nineties and who, you know, just breathed life in me until he passed at age 90, when he finished re you know, finished writing his 92nd book on leadership, about the idea of finishing strong.

And here's a man who, the last three books he wrote, he wrote and dictated to his assistant cuz he had imaculate degeneration. So he was driven in that capacity. Yes, physically, he couldn't do it, he had a bad hip and he, and he traveled eight, eight countries this bad hip because it was a basketball injury.

But I mean, I'm not gonna, the, his name is not necessarily someone to promote here, but the point is I had someone come into my life and. It's something out there that's far bigger. And they pointed me to a target was something far bigger, which was eternity and a relationship. So I remember my, I was 30 years in executive search and I remember I was meeting a number of these executives in their forties and fifties.

And they'd, they'd be so up outta sync. And, and I would say to them, yeah, you climbed the ladder of success, but you got to the top of the ladder and realized it was leaning against the wrong building. The formula you followed and he looked behind you and it was the marriage who was in shambles. The kids didn't know you, your health was terrible.

You had heart disease at age 50. I mean, you were a mess. And so the, the, so the, the, the issue to me in his whole concept of finishing your work, what are you basing the formula on? The formula is, is a relationship with someone who's walking with me every day. Who cares more about me, cares more about my wife, cares more about my family, my grandkids than anyone else.

And I just gotta follow, you know, and just pay attention and follow directions. I work for him. So how can I retire if I work for God? How can you re how can someone retire working for God? I mean, I haven't had anyone answer that question yet. So I mean, God's, you know sort, we sort of stay around for a while.

Bruce: In the Retirement Reformation, we say that we're, we're called to be faithful for a lifetime.

And that if we are not faithful and we are not entering into that relationship and being guided by it, as you talked about that, in fact, now it's time to go to eternity because there's nothing more. Yet God has that plan for you. So how in the world did he, how in the world did he then guide you to Marketplace Chaplains, which is doing such fantastic work and we're so pleased to be affiliated, but tell me a little bit more about that transition into the work of, of Marketplace Chaplains.

Ron Henry: Well, I, I think to me, I've learned and once again, because I dealt with people, I do a lot of career advisory work that I realized that the whole function is all about position. You know, God already has my next assignment set up, but if I'm not positioned to receive it, whether it be spiritually, emotionally, or physically, he's not gonna give me something and I'm not gonna recognize.

So I understood the positioning was first and foremost, the most, you know, the most critical need of that. And also I recognized I read a book that really influenced me a lot by John Eldridge called God the father. And he wrote it in 2010 and he started talking about the seasons of life. And it just, all of a sudden he put a name to something that I knew of, which is a Sage season, but it, it dawned to me, everybody, everybody, there's not an exception.

They moves into their, sometimes into their sixties. When they leave a king generation, they get greater joy outta life coming alongside someone and helping 'em be successful than actually being the one responsible. They didn't want the headache of payroll. They didn't want the headache of hiring and firing, but they wanna help people and glean back and give back.

So when he Elridge articulated, that just goes, wow, that makes sense. Cuz all these executive guys that had come to in a search business going, oh, they won't hire me. I'm not marketable. And then I kept saying you're why would anybody hire you? You know, too much, but you have great value. And then the more and more it's been shared about that and I've now experienced it.

I mean, what a powerful season I'm in, in life. I can actually help people navigate through courses that I actually experience over the last 50 years and maybe even get 'em to understand and believe, many of these people will do far greater than myself because they, they now have someone that's working with them and I don't have to.

And, and I'm not there to tell 'em anything I'm just there to listen. I mean, if I learned that lesson early on, I'd probably, my marriage would be better if I learned how to listen better.

Jim: Your wife, all of our wives would probably affirm that. Your wife called, Ron. She's appreciating the work that you are making. She knows that there's progress still to be made.

Ron Henry: Well, I'm sure that's it. I, of course she now has me having hearing aids just to make sure I hear her. So that's something else.

Bruce: And does she have the dial? The dial up?

Ron Henry: Don't even go there. I don't let her, I don't let her touch it.

Bruce: That's great. Jim, do you have a, do you have a question for Ron?

Jim: Ron, what I love the fact you, you know, you're, you're past 60 and you're working and you're loving it. In fact, you started working for the chaplains after retirement age, didn't you?

Ron Henry: Well, well, what, the interesting, how God's perfect plan and positioning, and I didn't actually answer your question directly is when I wound down my second search firm, about seven years ago, I had been praying to God. I said, what can I, how can I really impact.

And use what you've given me. All right. And, and, you know, and cuz I didn't, I never sold to company millions of dollars. So I revenue was still something important to, you know, live a certain lifestyle. And so I kept praying what the help. And meanwhile, I remember, I remember meeting Jason Brown, who I've been trying, I mean encourager in, in his life for a number of years as he was there and I'm familiar with Marketplace Chaplains and he approached me at a conference.

He goes, Hey, you're a great recruiter. I'm looking for somebody to help on the marketing team on the west coast. Do you know anybody. I'm thinking. Sure. I've been doing this for years. I, I sure I can come up with somebody. And I said, do you pay for this position? He goes, yeah, we actually pay. And I go, wow, that's kind of cool.

So I remember going back to my room and telling my wife and I said, honey, I just had an interesting request. And you know, Jason asked me to do this. She looked at me. He goes, isn't that what you do? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I mean, I wasn't looking for anything. I was positioned well and I was positioned there to serve and all of a sudden it came to me and I went back to Jason.

I'm going well, I, I don't know if I can commit a hundred percent of my time, but maybe 80%. He goes 80% of your time is worth 150% to anyone else. But your experience and working with business owners and opening up markets, and that, that started six over six and a half years ago. So I mean, what greater joy do I. And just bringing God's love and bringing Jesus to the workers at this season of life and just helping people.

Jim: So well, and let's talk about that.

Ron Henry: My wife said, my wife said, now she goes, well, you do what you'd be doing if they didn't pay you, wouldn't you? I go, well, probably.

Jim: Yeah. What, that's the beauty of wanting to work? You are working in a sweet spot and you love what you do. And, and there's so many people listening to this podcast today. That need to know about Marketplace Chaplains, because it's a, it is work that they would love to do too. Just pouring their lives into another generation of workplace beings. So like all people, it created the image of God, not all of them believers, obviously, but people could check out Marketplace Chaplains online at mchapusa.com.

MCHAPusa.dot com. Excuse me. Ron, who would be perfect to call you and connect with you about becoming a marketplace, chaplain?

Ron Henry: Anyone who has a heart to care and wants to have, find an additional purpose to their life. Remember that the, I think part of the terminology for the people in the, in the so-called season we're talking about is to work on your vocabulary.

Work on your vocabulary because God gives us assignments. So at this season of life, it's not a job. Can you say the word job and be encouraged? I don't think you say the word would be, but if you said I have an assignment from God, you know, the blues brothers got it. Right. You know, back in the movie, God, an assignment from God, God.

So the point being is, if you're in this season and you're saying I wanna do something that's really impactful, but I don't wanna work 40 hours. I don't wanna put 40 hours a week in, but I wanna leverage something I really enjoy and really give back. What that's chaplaincy that's, you know, just imagine as a person, you be able to walk into a company and be an encouragement to people guide 'em and direct him.

We, we provide all the training you need, you just have to have the right heart and you actually get paid for it too. So it's, that's not a, that's not a bad thing.

Jim: And in the next 10 years, there's a need for over a hundred thousand workplace Marketplace Chaplains, MCHAPusa.com. That's me prophesying, Ron, just so you know.

MCHAPusa.com. Ron Henry. Thanks for being on iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Thanks, Ron.

Ron Henry: Thanks for allowing me to be here. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce: And hopefully this message will reach some percentage of those that will then make a difference. So thanks for what you do.

Ron Henry: Praying that it does. It'll make, give them 10 more good years of their life.

Jim: Yeah, it's amazing. Pouring your life into others. You're listening to iRetire4Him and we'll be right back.

Every iRetire4Him show goes so quickly. We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed, let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement. iRetire4Him is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore retirementreformation.org. That's retirementreformation.org.

Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As we're talking about working past 60, having to work was last time. This time is wanting to work. Bruce, today's weird economic times with low unemployment, high inflation and monstrous job opportunities. Some of our friends who choose to continue working into retirement, choose to change their jobs, choose to change their career path, choose to change their industry. Why?

Bruce: Well, first of all, I think because there are opportunities, secondly, there is and, and as our, our, our guests that we just completed our conversation with with Ron Henry, he talked about the being positioned for something unique. And so it's the positioning. It's not the position and that God will then direct that positioning and, and those opportunities then will come up.

People ask me, well, you know, what kind of a job should I do? And my answer is what has he prepared you to do? They go well, I'm not sure. I said, here's the here's here's the action plan. Take a step forward and then listen for his guidance. And he'll and he will direct your paths.

Jim: What? You've got a four part book series that could also help lead them through that conversation. Really, if you're not sure what God has prepared you to do, it's time for some quiet time and no better thing to do than, than to be - some quiet time with Bruce's four books in your hands, one at a time: charting your course to figure out what God's got for you in retirement. Check those books out. At retirementreformation.org org under the resource tab.

All right, Bruce. But isn't it tough to change jobs after 60? You mean we're kind of set in our ways and you know, can we even learn? Can you teach an old dog new tricks?

Bruce: I always think of my friend Moses here. He was age 80.

Jim: Your age!

Bruce: Yeah, exactly. My age and God shows up in this burning Bush and says, man, I'm gonna do 180 degrees on your life. And watch out what's coming now. Remember he had a family, it was grown. He'd escaped from Egypt. He was raised by the, I mean, you know, all the stuff that you know about Moses and here it is at 80, and God's saying you got a right hand turn right ahead of you, brother, and he's got 40 years that will impact the world forever.

And so Moses hesitated, however, He said, gee, I, I, I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not a very good speaker. And he had a bunch of excuses, just like the rest of us make. But when we put ourselves into God's hands and he opens doors and we step into them, he guarantees that he will provide us both the energy, the intentionality and the application of experiences.

To be able to apply him. And so that's all good sounding, but there's just a lot of people that are just flat scared. Oh. And they need to, they need to stand up and take a, take a step forward.

Jim: Well, and I think Moses was scared to death. He begged God, please, please just make somebody else do this. I can't talk.

And, and yet Moses got a J I mean his, he, for the first 40 years, he was, you know, he was, he was spoiled to death. The next 40 years he's hanging out with sheep in the desert in the next 40 years, he's hanging out with people, sheep in the desert for 40 years. Yeah, that's right. But God, I mean, but in that last 40 years, he was closer to God than anybody else has ever been on the planet.

Cuz he spent face to face time with God. And that's really how rich our last phase of life is. We get that opportunity to be a little quieter, to hear the voice of God. We've had the wisdom under our belts. Not make some of those same mistakes over again, and we can learn new things. It may take some technology expertise, but we've all got kids or grandkids or the neighbors, kids that can help us out with our iPhones.

Bruce: You don't know if you don't know something about the technology, just ask your five year old grandchild. That's right. He'll he'll square you away in about a minute and a half. Bruce.

Jim: Did you make any major career changes after 60?

Bruce: No. I made career additions. Not career changes, career editions, and that's kind of a different way to think about it. I've been the CEO of Envoy financial for 30 plus years, but being a farmer in Laos, my wife always reminds me she didn't intend to marry a farmer, having a coffee plantation there the ministries that we've done in 60 different foreign countries the development of the Retirement Reformation. And so it's, in my case, it's been an addition to not a replacement of.

Jim: And, and that opportunity is there for everybody. We don't have to do what we have been doing. Some of us have to work cause we need the income, but God's got work specifically designed for you in these years after 60. And it's not just playing golf, playing tennis, playing pickle ball, or finding seashells.

It's work of investing your life into other people with the wisdom that you have, because if you're working after 60, you got 60 years of experience that those youngsters don't have. And many of the youngsters that you're working alongside don't have access to grandparents. Someone don't have access to parents it's so it it's so important pouring your life in others.

Bruce, one final question. Before we talk about how the Retirement Reformation can help us with all this. What are some of the factors we should consider when changing our jobs, but choosing to work?

Bruce: I think the key is, is does it fit our passion? The position that God has put us in, all of our experiences. That's one, the second one, does it fit the, the circumstance of, of your family and your time? Does it fit in, into the, into the rhythm of this new stage of life, with your spouse, with your children, with your grandchildren. So is there in conflict with that or is it part of that process? So I think those are two really key variables.

Jim: Very, very cool. And it just, and I would just encourage, add to that is choose a place that it fits your passion for life and choose a place where there are people there that you can pour your life into. And, and because you have so much to offer, Bruce, how can the Retirement Reformation help our friends who are choosing to work, but doing it with a level, a new level of intentionality?

Bruce: First of all, I think it's, it's having a better understanding of who God has created us to be and the trajectory of life that he has created us to have. My experience and I think the message of the Retirement Reformation and the, and the resources that are there and available for you. Matter of fact, we're releasing next week the rethinking retirement, which is an 11 week small group series.

Oh, for people to be able to understand how God has prepared them for this next stage and to open up their thinking about what the options and alternatives are. I'm always surprised at, at, at a new circumstance that I'm faced with. And I go, gee, I don't know anything about that. And then I think back 30 years ago, something happened that informed me that allows me to be able to step into this situation that if that experience of 30 years ago hadn't happened, I wouldn't be ready. And so God, he knows. Yes, he does. And to trust that he knows.

Jim: No wiser words could be spoken. Bruce, great conversation on working after 60 - choosing to work. Next time we come back, we're gonna talk about volunteering. Thanks, Bruce. Appreciate the conversation.

Bruce: God bless my friend.

Jim: You've been listening to IRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation online at retirementreformation.org. I'm your host, Jim Brangenbergen. Of course we've had Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of the Retirement Reformation with us. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering.

During retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money. And invested all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto@retirementreformation.org. And explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot.

6/6/22 - iRetire4Him Show 63: Working After 60, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement. To embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop. You can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching or already in retirement. You've tuned into, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg of course I'm always joined by the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma.

Check us out online at retirementreformation.org, retirement, reformation.org. Wasn't it dolly Parton, who sang: working nine to five. What a way to make a living, barely getting by. It's all taking and no giving. They just use your mind and they never give you credit. It's enough to drive you crazy if you let it.

But really most of us love going to work. Work gives us purpose. Work paid for things that we love. Work provided for our family. But now you're thinking I have a different perspective on my work. I'm over 60 and work has taken on a whole new role in my life. Well, welcome to iRetire4Him as today, Bruce Bruinsma and I start a three part series on working after 60, we're gonna take three different approaches in the podcast over the next three weeks, having to work, wanting to work and volunteering since we all know that retirement is unbiblical. We hope this conversation helps you determine how to best serve your local community in the years following 60. Bruce Bruinsma. Welcome back to, iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Jim is always as good to be with you. And I'm really excited about this next three weeks, because these are subjects that, that, that has received some attention in the, in the mass media and other places. But there's, there's some changes that are happening and I I'm so glad that we're gonna be able to explore it together.

Jim: Well, and as we talk today about having to stay at work, when, when you really look at it, there are probably people that last year, the year before they were thinking I'm gonna retire in 2022. And that was before 30 and 40% inflation. I know they say it's less, but we all know better than that because I paid $6 and 60 cents for gas in California the other day. And last March in Missouri, I paid a dollar 59. That's somewhat...

Bruce: I'm gonna interrupt. I'm gonna interrupt you because last week, Friday, Afternoon in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, I paid $9 and 30 cents a gallon.

Jim: That's a lot of money.

Bruce: That's a lot of money,

Jim: Bruce. It's not a fun reality to focus on, but some people, even though they are of retirement age, they have to work. That doesn't seem fair.

Bruce: You know, I don't think it's a question of fair. Unfortunately, it, it would be nice if, if, if the world was fair, but that's kind of not the way. God created it fair, but then a couple of folks named Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel and a few other folks intervened in there. And, and so this whole fairness issue kind of kinda went away.

And so it really talks about it really talks about need. And, and so is there a financial need perhaps? Is there an emotional. But let's fi focus on that financial side for a while, because there's an increasing number of people that they have to work in order to what, in order to live, to have the resources, to be able to buy whatever it is they need to you know, to be able to take the, the next week and stride.

Jim: So since I'm the one that's closest to 60 of the two of us, I thought it would be helpful for us to go through some of the reasons that people. Have to stay at work past retirement age. And I don't think one of them is the failure to plan whether it's planning financially or, I mean, let's just start with that.

They just never started saving enough for retirement. They thought social security would take care of them and it's just not gonna be enough. Or they. Kept refinancing their mortgage. I, I have a lot of friends that are my age that still have quite a mortgage cuz they kept refinancing their mortgage or they kept buying new homes.

And so their homes aren't paid for. And that of course is a big nut to, to crack in today's world. But I think most people who have to stay at work, they just got expenses that are more than what they can, they can cover by what their retirement income's going to give them. And that may be some of it due to inflation, but some of 'em due to life.

Bruce. You've got friends and I've got friends that live in a lifestyle that just simply isn't sustainable with an ongoing retirement income. They need to supplement it with pay.

Bruce: Let me just interject into that, please. There's another piece that that is, is foundational to all the issues that you, that you addressed and perhaps some others, but the fact that retirement now is actually the length of time.

So the reality of longevity being 30 years. I remember when, you know, when I was younger people, you know, they worked till 65, they died at 67, not a big deal. Now you're just getting started when you're 70. So we've got this longer period of time and that costs more money, not just only because of inflation, but just simply because of the length of time.

And then medical expenses is another piece that jumps in here. Oh, I, for sure that they didn't have before. And so there's all of these things that have, have come up, man. That that's a pretty serious set of issues to try and address.

Jim: Yeah, it, it is. Absolutely. I think one of the questions I wanna talk about is, okay, so let's we have to work. Okay. Let the, the, the, the, that's what the focus is today working after 60, we have to work, but do we have to keep the same job?

Bruce: And I think the answer to that is absolutely not as a matter one of the great. Hidden benefits if you wish of COVID, is that there is every place I look, there are job, you know, there are signs of wanting to hire people.

And so you have an opportunity to be able to make some adjustments in what you're doing. It may be adjustments as is, is reducing the number of hours that you work, because you don't need to work 40 or a place where in fact, you can get additional pay for what you do. Third. It may be a place where it's just more fun to work.

And so even though you have to, you put that overlay of blessing on it and, and there, there are some hidden benefits that we may not otherwise acknowledge.

Jim: The hidden benefits. And I think that, yeah, if you're going to have to work, you really ought to make sure your place where you're working is a place where you can't wait to go every day.

And I think that, you know, sometimes people stay at John for 30, 40 years. Because they don't like change, but if they've figured out, well, if I gotta stay somewhere for another 10, I wanna go somewhere where I love going to work every day. What were some of the reasons that your friends Bruce kept for having to work well past 60?

Because you've got friends that are in their seventies and their eighties and their nineties, what were some of the reasons where they kept working? Why?

Bruce: Well, let's, let's break this into a couple of different categories.

Jim: Let's keep it to the, having to work category.

Bruce: I under. No, I understand. Okay. But in that, having to work, I think there are some different categories.

One of them is the entrepreneurial world. You, you own a business and you don't have an exit plan. And so you just simply haven't planned that way. You may be financially. Okay. But in fact, you wanna see your business continue or it needs to continue for whatever the reasons. And so you're in a sense you're kind of stuck.

And so you keep working because that's what you do. As a matter of fact, I was talking to one of our staff members this morning and, and the staff member was sharing about her mother and her mother is 67. She's a hairdresser and continues to work five days a week plus Saturday. And when asked about, well, why aren't you gonna stop? She says, well, I have no retirement and I don't know what else to do.

Jim: Well. And if, as long as your fingers are nimble, you could do that forever. I mean, and plus people who are hairdressers and hairstylists, they get to it's like counseling. They they're they're bartenders and hair stylist. They're like counselors.

They're, that's what they're doing to list of people's problems. That would be fun. What a great ministry place that is.

Bruce: I wanted to, I wanted to continue on that thought.

Jim: Well, why don't you continue on that thought when we come back from our breakwould that be okay?

Bruce: Let's do it that way.

All right. You're listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim Brangenberg and of course, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, but check us out online at retirementreformation.org. We'll be right back with our first guest of this series. And then Bruce and I finish this conversation. We'll be right back.

Break: Membership has its privileges and with the Retirement Reformation, it's true. We have three levels of membership to access our growing wealth of resources. We also provide discipleship and training to bring the Retirement Reformation alive in your life. So join us, go to retirement, reformation.org and click on the membership tab.

Choose the level of membership that will help you rethink retool, reframe and reform your retirement today. The basic level is free so you can get started today. Take the journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say iRetire4Him. Retirement, reformation.org. Let's get back to more iRetire4Him.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce, every second segment, you bring on a guest, that's got a story to share of how their faith is being lived at, lived out in their life. Who do you have for us?

Bruce: I've got a very special guest today and, and she's special for all kinds of reasons, but the one that's the closest to my heart is, is her work in the anti-abortion movement and the way that she has been both committed and activity, both in, from a, from a civic standpoint, as well as from a ministry standpoint. So Dr. Sharen Ford welcome. We're so glad that you're here.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well, thank you for having me on your program today. What a pleasure.

Bruce: Spent more than a couple of years being guided by God's holy spirit in some very specific areas of action. Give us just a quick executive summary, if you would, of how he's directed your paths to, to get you to where you are today in serving him in the way that you do.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well the short story I worked for state government here in Colorado at the department of human services in the division of child welfare. For 30 years I worked for state government being a good public servant. I hope.

Jim: Thank you for that.

Dr. Sharen Ford: Thank you. But it's about children in foster care. Children who are in need of adoption, working with families who were prospective foster parents, prospective adoptive parents, working with adolescents boy, as our kids get older, they're sometimes still in the foster care system and they need permanency and they need guidance. And so those kids are aging out of the foster care system and what's gonna happen to them.

That was part of the. And then that important work, all of that work is important, but thinking about kids and families who cross state lines, that there needs to be that conversation with other state employees and other states to say, gosh, a family that I know of here is moving to your state. And I wanna make sure that they're connected with the right resources before we send them your way.

And by the same token, they were sending families our way. And so that's called the interstate on the placement of children and the interstate compact on adoption medical assistance. So those were some of the things in my portfolio that allowed me to. Be a, hopefully a, a public servant that was mindful of that.

All these things impact children and they impact families. And if we are not doing our, just job that God will hold us accountable. We're not serving well.

Bruce: If I can, if I can interject - Judy and I were foster parents for about 10 years and the the, the brother and sister that came with us, they were four and five at the time that they came.

And when they were 12, 13, they went back in, in Oregon. At that point in time, you couldn't adopt, if you were a foster parent, that's changed now. Thank goodness. But anyway, their mother took them just for two weeks into another state and we could not bring them back. And so that I wish we had an advocate like you at that point in time, cuz I was really pained.

Dr. Sharen Ford: I'm sure it was not only painful for you and your wife. Thank you for serving. Thank you so much. What you poured into those children are seeds that will mushroom and grow over a lifetime very much so. Yes, you're correct. It hurt it. Not only hurt you, but it hurt the children. And I pray that God sent some other people to be in those children's lives to help them in their journey of life.

Bruce: We were, they were blessed and he did. So how did you make a transition then from being a public servant to being a private servant?

Dr. Sharen Ford: Well, you know during the last probably, Ooh, six years of working in state government, I got connected with one of a vice president at focus on the family. And in her role, she was interested in identifying families across the United States in churches.

That would care about the children in their state that were going to be leaving the foster care system without a forever family. Even today, there are over a hundred thousand children who have their parental rights terminated and they are seeking a forever family. And so that that young woman, her name was Kelly Zadi.

Said, Hey, when you get ready to retire, would you, I want you to come work with me. I focus on the family and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Well, when it was time for me to leave state government I had this little niggling in the back of my head and God said, call her, reach out to her. She really did mean what she said.

And so I did, and she said, don't take another position. Give me a few minutes. I need to make some, you know, calls. And before I knew it I had a job offer to come work with focus on the family.

Bruce: What a, what a blessing. And so how has that, how has that call played itself out over these last, what six years now and what it is that you see ahead of you? What are the, what are the kind of the key highlights?

Dr. Sharen Ford: I think the key highlights are, is we have moved our, what we call our wait no more program here at focus on the family from being just about the children who are legally free for adoption to having a more broader perspective that children... doesn't.

It doesn't matter where a child is in their journey. If they're coming to the attention to, of, of state government or local child welfare government, they need quality foster homes. Families who are doing the foster care work. They need families who will wrap loving and supportive services around them.

That families who God has called to adopt those families need supportive services wrapped around them. And they're through this journey of caring for children who have trauma histories. That those families need to be equipped and supported. And so one of our roles is to not just say, Hey, come be a foster parent.

Oh, Hey, come be an adoptive parent. But who in your church, who in your community will love on you and care for you as you're caring for vulnerable children? So that you know that you're not walking alone. God says, I'll never leave you nor forsake you. And so if God's not leaving us or forsaking us, that he has people in the pews, maybe not in your church, but in someone's church that will stand up and be supportive of you and the children that you're caring for. And that's what he asks his bride to do.

Bruce: You know, there's about 40 million retired Jesus followers who are not active in ministry at all, other than attending church, perhaps. And so the call that you just made without calling it a call to the audience that we serve, I think has a really unique opportunity to it and a huge need.

Matter of fact, I was at a conference recently and I think I heard the number that there were 400,000 children in the foster care. Is that about a right number?

Dr. Sharen Ford: That's a right number.

Hey, if every church, if there would be grandparents. Older folks and younger folks that would partner together as the church of Jesus Christ. We could fix that problem in a couple of months.

Exactly, exactly. You know, I ask people, you know, I say, you know, God, didn't say that we're supposed to do everything. He only asked you to do your piece. What is the piece that God is asking you to do? Everybody can do something. Everybody can cook, somebody can cook, someone can clean, someone can sit down and, and, and have a cup of coffee with you and, and just be a good listener.

Someone can come in and watch your children while you sleep. Just get the extra rest that you need. What is your yes. When God asks you to step in, are you willing to say yes without hesitation, knowing that he will provide for you and keep you, and when you say yes to him, boy, what a difference that makes in the life of that child that you're touching the life of that foster family, that adoptive family.

Boy, everybody needs help and support. And you're right. There's a population of people who could step in and make a difference today. They don't have to have special training, special equipment they can serve. They can serve with the servant's heart.

Bruce: Dr. Sharen Ford, we thank you for your life. Thank you for your ministry. And Jim, do you have a question?

Jim: , I got, I got two questions because whoa, one of the things, yeah, I know. Well, this is a, this is a very touching spot to our lives. Martha and I had two foster children. One of which we got to adopt and is now my grandchildren through my foster daughter, my adopted daughter is graduated from high school in a couple weeks and all of my kids are now foster parents.

But it's a battle, Sharen. They're in three different states, Minnesota, Florida, and Missouri. In Florida, foster parents don't have to battle the system near as much because the system is very clear to make kids available for adoption, as quick as possible. In Missouri, my kids are so frustrated. They want to give up because the system is just so messed up.

I mean, and my kids in Minnesota, they, they know, they knew they live in Minnesota. They, they knew what to expect. How can we speak encouragement into potential families? No matter what their age is to, to get involved because the system at times could cause aggravation?

Dr. Sharen Ford: You know something that I've learned the hard way is that if we take, if it's too easy, people don't pay attention to it.

That, that friction, it grows muscles. And as you grow that muscle of advocacy, as you grow that muscle of prayer, God will see you through. Cause if you give up, when there's friction, you're gonna give up. When that, when that child has friction in your home, I don't want you to give up. I want you to trust God and to lean into him and to keep moving forward and to ask for help, you can contact me at focus on the family and I'll be your encourager.

I'll remind you that God's called you to do the work and that he will keep you in the work if you trust him.

Jim: I'm giving all three of my kids, your name. So last question, you're over 60 and you started you retired and started a brand new career. Can you imagine anything more wonderful than what God has for you in this next stage of life?

Dr. Sharen Ford: No, I can't imagine. Because see this stage is a rich stage. He told me that he would keep me as long as I did what he asked me to do. Do my knees hurt some days? Yes. Do I get tired maybe earlier in the evening than some young person? Yes. But he, every morning his mercies are new. Amen. Every morning he reminds me of what he's called me to do, and he outlines my steps and I'm like, God, I'm just trying to be obedient to you. And as long as I'm obedient, he's gonna provide. And that's what I trust him to do.

Jim: Dr. Sharen Ford. Thanks for being an iRetire4Him today. Really appreciate it.

Bruce: God bless your work. And may it continue!

Dr. Sharen Ford: Thank you so much, gentlemen.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on, iRetire4Him. Talking about working past 60, having to work. Every iRetire4Him Show goes so quickly.

We don't often get to remind you that there are two resources you should be checking out right now. I recommend that you get a copy of the Retirement Reformation book and the, iRetire4Him book. Retirement Reformation focuses on the mindset and behavioral changes needed. Let's just say paradigm shifting that is needed to live out your faith in retirement.

iRetire4Him Is focused on many of the ways you could put your faith into action by investing your life into others in your retirement years. Get both at the retirement reformation website in the bookstore. Retirementreformation.org, that's retirement, reformation.org.

And welcome back to iRetire4Him. As we talk today about working past 60, having to go to work. Bruce, you had a comment you wanted to make right before the break. Go ahead.

Bruce: Well, I was just kind of breaking it out into some different categories. One, I mentioned about the entrepreneur who, who is really kind of trapped and, and so he has to continue to work, not necessarily for financial reasons, but for other reasons. Then secondly, you have a, a senior executive in a business and, and, and they have not adequately planned for succession.

Just kind like on the entrepreneurial side. And so from a board standpoint, they're kind of stuck. They don't know what else to do. And so it continues to work because there's commitment. There's a need that, that only he, or she seems like they can fulfill, then you've got the, you know, the middle management type of, of job and, and worker where they just simply need the salary.

But I think the point that you made is critical, and we ought to explore that a little bit more about the opportunities to be able to make a change at this time in life to continue to work. Because you need to, but to do it in a place that gives you greater joy, some, perhaps some more freedom and certainly some meaning and purpose.

Jim: Yeah. I think what's, what's great with, with the whole mindset of living out your faith in your work. If you've worked in an environment for multiple decades where that really squelched your ability to live out your faith, to be able to search out, because there are literally, what was the number that released at the end of a couple weeks ago, 10 million jobs available.

You can pick and do anything. You can work anywhere. Hobby lobby's pretty hard to get into. I've got a granddaughter trying to get in hobby lobby, but you know that that's a little tougher, but when you look at the opportunities, they're unlimited that filter. I think Bruce, how do you figure out what career might be a good fit?

Bruce: Well, first of all, if you, you know, you're, you're now your 60 or maybe 65 and. You've had an opportunity to experience perhaps things that don't fit. Therefore that gives you the opportunities and things that do secondly, or what are the things that you're passionate about. Right. And that a, that a, a job setting.

We have a lot of staff that work with us who, who come to work with us because we're a Christian ministry and they provide the skills. They need to work. They provide the skills, but they do it within a context that gives them greater pleasure. And when they put their head on the pillow at night, it's not because they're glad because they got a paycheck, which they need, but it was also had meaning and purpose.

Jim: Have any of your friends chosen just totally different careers after 60?

Bruce: Ah, they have. Matter of fact, one of those examples, a number of examples are people that were in, in, in, in for profit business of one kind or another. And totally changed their career to become, you know, the CFO of a, of a ministry, or to be able to apply their skills in a ministry setting where they're still paid, their compensation is there, but the purpose for the work has changed other than their need for still compensation. But what it is that they're doing provides much more meaning and much more purpose.

Jim: Have you ever thought about if you were gonna do something? I mean, on, you know, his Envoy's group, they, they say, you know, you know, you just decide, you know, I've, I've done what I need to get done. And now I'm just gonna go ahead and let it, let it be.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna move away from it. You've got your coffee plantation. You've got Retirement Reformation. Is there anything else you'd like to explore into your eighties?

Bruce: Well, into the, into the eighties, the opportunity to encourage people. In meaningful ways and the Retirement Reformation gives us an opportunity to do that.

And that is what it is that God's called me to for the rest of my active life. And it's certainly not a job. It certainly is a ministry, but it certainly is also hard work. So let's not, let's not break those apart. We're always gonna be working. God calls us to work. And, and so it's not a question that there's not gonna be sweat on our brow.

But is what is gonna be the result of the sweat on our brow, both for us internally and for the impact on those we love and those we're called to serve.

Jim: Yeah. I've often thought about, you know, I could be a handyman over the last 40 years.

Bruce: Well, you do a good job in that. You're fantastic.

Jim: I, I would, I've taken, you know, maybe I could help other people and I don't need to make a lot of money cuz I've I I've, I don't have any debt.

I thought that'd be kind of fun to do. I also had a car dealership in my, in my thirties and my forties. I've I've thought about going back and doing that, but now that the car market has been destroyed by the government complex, I'm not sure whether that's a good idea, but I've also thought about being a preacher.

I, I would be fun. I don't know. I'd be a very good pastor cuz when people are being stupid, I just tell people they're being stupid. That's not very shepherding, like, but I love to teach it. It's fun, but I don't know that I, I taught high school one year... I would never do that. But it's fun to think, okay. If I'm gonna work, which we're all gonna work in some fashion, because we're not gonna sit back and just play golf all day long or play tennis or, or, or a pickle ball, because God's called us to be workers and we've, and we're called to the gospel to the mission.

Bruce: The great thing. I think the, the stages in, in the stages in retirement also tend to dictate what options are available to you and which ones you want to take advantage of. So, you know, that, that first stage of fairly active, that you're in very much. So that second stage, which is much more consultative and, and, and, and much more mentoring, that's probably more of the stage that I'm in.

And then the last stage, which is that reflective stage, where you're able to really get your arms runner and be able to position that information for others, but to find ways. As work to be able to do those things and to recognize the differences and to be prepared for them. I, I, I think is really important.

Jim: Well, and what I love the fact is that I believe Retirement Reformation can help with all of this. As you really help people work through with your series of books, helping people work through how will I spend my retirement years, even if I choose to work or have to work in order to pay my bills.

There's a level of intentionality that Retirement Reformation can help with this. Isn't there, Bruce?

Bruce: And there's also the realization that, you know, we need to bloom where we're plant. And if it is, we need to work because for all the reasons we talked about, some of them dumb and some of them, you know, he'd say, well, that was just really stupid not to prepare, but that is where you are.

And God can, will use you everywhere that you are. And if you are in his will, then even that need to work can be played out as a ministry.

Jim: Oh. Especially the need to, to. God has got so much for you in this work. And if you have to work, look at it as an opportunity to create, to really explore your own mission field.

Your workplace is your ministry place. And in that ministry place, you may be the only Jesus, your coworkers, employees, and bosses may ever meet. Bruce, great conversation. As we start off this three part series on working past 60 and on having to work, I, I thank you very much for this great conversation.

Bruce: I loved it too. And there's lots more in the next two parts of the series.

Jim: You been listening to the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenberg. Well, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. With yours, Jim Brangenberg of course, Bruce. Bruinsma the founder of the Retirement Reformation.

Please check us out. Online retirement, reformation.org. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him.

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma.

iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement. However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life.

Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation.org.

5/23/22 - iRetire4Him Show 62: A Fruitful Retirement, Part 4

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the calling. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him.

Jim: You've tuned into, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. We're reaching out to you. The 50 million Christ followers in America who are already retired are on their way to retirement. We're so gratefully tuned in today. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And I'm joined by Bruce Bruinsma the founder of the Retirement Reformation. You might wanna know what that's all about. Go to RetirementReformation.org, RetirementReformation.org. Christians are called to ministry for a lifetime impacting and changing lives is more than a priority for God. It is his mandate to us. This mandate the call on our lives has a couple of parts, the common call for all believers to minister, while impacting others and helping to change lives.

Then there is the unique call, which is based on our unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities. But how does all that play out in our retire? Retirement is not only a reward for past service, but is a stepping stone, a launching pad for future ministry. And as Bruce says, a future funded, fully funded ministry, Bruce Bruinsma were the founder of the Retirement Reformation just released his latest book in the future funded ministry series.

And it's called A Fruitful Retirement. The result of a future funded ministry plan. Bruce joined this today for our final podcast of the four part series. Talking about how your retirement ears can be a fruitful retire. Bruce welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Now, Jim, the conversations we've had in the prior three podcasts have, have really illuminated what start starts to illuminate more, what, what fruitful really means and the value of that. So much opportunity, so much opportunity and, and the reward that comes from being fruitful is so much greater than the reward that comes from doing nothing.

Jim: On chapter nine of, of A Fruitful retirement, you say, and I quote you, everything you've experienced, learned and accomplished has prepared you for the next phase of life, retirement. How is that true? Give us an example from your life.

Bruce: 1989 was in a circumstance where I was challenged to make a trip to the end of the world. Literally. The end of the world can, is best personified by the name of a town it's called Timbuktu. Matter of fact, most people would wonder if it town really exists.

It is literally in the country of Molly. It's in the middle of a desert and, and there are no roads to get there. So I was challenged to go there. I thought, well, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, not traveled much at that time in my life, outside the country. To be called to the end of the world.

And I had a decision to make, would I go, or would I not pretty simple. I made the decision to go and. I went to Timbuk two and spent about a week there and it is in the middle of nowhere. And it's kind of that picture, you know, of the, of the French Legionnaire crawling through the sand and, you know, with his tongue hanging out, trying to get another water.

That's that's where Timbuktu is. It is the end of the world. I thought the reason that I was going there was because I needed to have a conversation. With missionaries in a desolate place. It's another story to unpack at another time, but I went and did that and got the answer to that question. It probably wasn't till maybe almost 15 years later, maybe 20, where I realized that a secondary, but more important reason was my answer to God's question: will you go?

That answer has shaped the rest of my life. We talked in another segment about listening to God's call and being available. Well, how do you know if you're gonna be available? Well, guess what? The way you know, is if you're available, how do you know if you will go because you went and.

Whether it's to a neighbors across the street, across the city, across the state, around the world, it doesn't matter. Are you available? And will you go, God promises that if you will be his messenger and allow his word to. Be expressed through your life and for the things that he calls you to do, he will then prepare you.

He will make you ready. He will then use that to be able to build his kingdom. And so when we talk about being fruitful, the first step in being fruitful is to be available. The second one is to go. The third one is to listen to what he want is to understand. The lessons that you are to learn that will, that will impact all the rest of the things that you do.

And one of the great things about longevity is you have an opportunity to have those experiences and to be able to reflect on them. That was an experience 1989, not a long time ago, but it affects my life today. When a challenge and opportunity situation comes. And the question is, will I step into it as God's representative?

And I've lived long enough now that I can say in the affirmative yes, I will. When I was 30, I couldn't say that now. I can not only say it, but I can do it first.

Jim: A lot of people look at retirement and thank you for sharing that story. A lot of people look at retirement as an ending of sorts, but it's really a new beginning and you just described.

The transformational paradigm, shifting moment in your own life. And, and this new beginning usually relates to taking all that God has woven into the tapestry of our lives and matching it with a fresh calling or assignment. How do we know, maybe I answer this question? How did you know what that calling was for you?

Bruce: When I was a boy who lived in grand rapids, Michigan. Had a lot of friends in the area, there was a, a woods, there was lots of places to roam and to go. And so on. I know when it was time to come home for dinner, your stomach was gone. My dad had a whistle. Oh, okay. My dad had a whistle and it was, I don't know if I can do it.

My lips are drying up, but it was his and his whistle could penetrate. The forest, the trees, the anything that was going on. And when I heard that whistle, I knew it was time to come home here. God calling it's time to listen. How do you know that God is calling? Cause he's opened a door. He shut a door. He speaks audibly.

He speaks through someone else. He speaks through scripture. All the different ways that he speaks to us. He speaks to us in visions, all the different ways that he speaks to us. But when he does choosing his methodology for us to be open listening and available, that's all I can tell you.

Jim: I love the real and raw examples, Bruce. So, so grateful for that. When we come back, second segment of the show, we're gonna have Art Nutter with us today. You're gonna love to hear his story. You're listening to, iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book of fruitful retirement. Head out to RetirementReformation.org / books.

You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including a fruitful retire. Retirement Reformation.org/books. That's RetirementReformation.org / books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg. And of course we're always joined by Bruce Bruinsma by the founder of the Retirement Reformation and Bruce, during the second segment of every show you bring on a special guest, who do you have for us today?

Bruce: I'd like to introduce our audience to my friend Art. Art and I have had an opportunity to get to know each other in a variety of different ways through being part of a CEO leadership group.

And one of the things that, that always attracted me to you, art was that you're the kind of person that the average person would say. Shouldn't you be retired and man, you seem to be working a lot and doing that. That's the kind of same things they say to me. So we've got a kinship there, but I know my story, but we need to share some of your story with our, with our readers. So what are you doing and what keeps you going?

Art Nutter: Well what I'm doing is in the we're making patent licensing more efficient for everybody around the world. And why I do this because I had a voice. I heard literally a voice from God. I was in my, I was in my sauna here at my house and I hear this voice that says, Art, I'd like you to make patent transactions more efficient around the world. I'm like, this is weird. Okay.

I'm the only guy in the sauna, but it was as clear as, as I'm talking to you right now and I'm thinking, all right, I had to sit there and, and pray about this and say, all right, well, was this real? And, you know, occasionally the holy spirit does allow these things to happen.

And and I'm like, well, I guess I have all the elements necessary to enable patent licensing to, to be effective efficiently. And so I started trying on this concept around, around the world. And so talking to all my customers, IBM Intel, Microsoft Qualcomm, you know, Samsung, Fujitsu, blah, blah, blah.

These are all my customers. I said, what if we did this patent licensing thing in a way similar to the way music is licensed today? Because you know, we, we, with our shiny heads here have transitioned between when music was distributed on vinyl. Through to tapes then CDs, then MP3s. And now most many people around the world consume music through a subscription service, either through apple music or Spotify, pay one price and listen to all the music you want, where I figure we can do something very, very similar to that in patents.

Bruce: You know, I find it, I find it interesting because. Everywhere. We turn everybody that we interview here, but the people that I meet, you know, each one of us is unique and yet God finds a way to use those, those skills and those talents in a way that will be, will answer an issue for the world, but also an issue for building the kingdom.

So answer me this question. When your feet hit the floor, first thing in the morning, mm-hmm, , what's going through your head?

Art Nutter: Well I'm I I'm, I'm, I'm paying attention to the readings. I'm a Catholic guy. And so the universal Catholic church has the same readings every single day, no matter where you are in the church, anywhere in the world.

Okay. So I, first thing I do get up. I put some clothes on and I listen to the readings as I get in my car and head to mass, because quite often I get asked to help out with the responsorial Psalm or something like that during the mass. But I ha I, as a result of another miracle that I was a beneficiary of, actually one of my daughters was a beneficiary of it.

I made a deal with God, so to speak. To go to mass every single day. And I've been doing that now for 12 years straight because my daughter almost died back when the swine flu was going around the world. And intercession of St. Gianna Mola, patron saint of pregnant moms. She's back and we have a granddaughter as a result of that and very, very cool things.

Bruce: Well, that's, you know, the, we, we talk in the Retirement Reformation messaging. That in fact, one of the benefits of growing older is that we can, that we can, that we can become closer to God. Yes. And that we can grow with our emotional maturity. Now our bodies may, you know, the hair may fall out. Our bodies may yeah, start to deteriorate. We may forget some things now. And then we may slow down a little, but I think those, those BA the on balance, the, the, the benefits that come. From age, certainly outweigh the challenges that come from age. Do you agree with that? Is that what you found?

Art Nutter: No question. No question, Bruce. In fact I participate in Eucharistic adoration on a night, on a nightly basis, not nightly, but at three o'clock in the morning on Thursday mornings, Friday mornings and Sunday mornings, I go in and adore the blessed sacrament and a blessed sacrament adoration chapel at our, at our parish. Okay. It's the first one that was ever been established in the history of the city of Colorado Springs.

It's been going for 24 7 now for the last five north of five years. Anyhow, I'm in there adoring our Lord. And he's talking to me exactly about what you're talking about because as we do age, we get influenced less and less by our external environment and influenced more and more by our internal and spiritual environment.

And, and so I'm, I'm reading stuff by Saint Augustin and St. Francis and a couple other dudes. And they're saying, yep, this is all, this is process where you get closer and closer to God, indeed.

Bruce: Well, that's, that's good. So do you, do you have a sense that your work with the patent books and, and to make patenting and, and its usage and so on simpler? Do you have a sense of is there any unique ways that that particularly impacts the church or the kingdom?

Oh, absolutely.

Art Nutter: Absolutely. Okay. Tell me what that is. Well it's, it's multifaceted and it's really kind of fun. I enjoy speaking in front of audiences and the largest audience that I've been speaking to about patent books was about 2000 people in the audience.

Okay. These are all licensing guys, you know, around the world and all that. And. I get up there and I tell them flat out the, the, the story of how this came about, you know, this, this voice in the sauna, the God, all this stuff. And, and I get commentary after my, my talk, they say, all right. I felt like I was at a tent revival or something like that.

I said, oh, you could be in a worse place. Okay. And and the other way that this will profoundly affect things. This allows people to communicate and work together. Because the holy spirit is in every one of us. And, and we come up with these artificial boundaries, you know, with these COVID masks and everything else like that, that are, that are even emphasized that further.

But, you know, we, we, humans are, are supposed to interact with one another because this gets back to St. Paul's description of the body of. There's different parts of the body have different skills and inventors, if they can't eat because nobody's paying for the use of their invention. Well, then they're gonna have to go do something else.

They're gonna have to flip burgers or something like that. And we lose the capability of those inventors and their inventions. Because if they can get paid for them efficiently, guess what? They'll probably do more inventing. That's a good thing for all of us.

Bruce: Well, and you know, we were all created in the likeness of God and, and he's a pretty inventive fellow. If he was inventive enough to have, have created the three of us that are on the rable - that and giraffes. He's got both a sense of humor and a wide of a variety of skills. Well, Art, thank you so much for being part of it. Your story is, is unique and as every story is unique, Jim, do you have a question?

Jim: I do. Art, I wanna know. So you, you, growing up Catholic you're, you're an avid Catholic. You've heard enough homiles that you could stack it from here to the moon. Did you ever imagine that God cared so much about business, that he gave you specific business instructions that, that, that he said, here's what I want you to architect? Were you surprised actually?

Art Nutter: Yes and no. I mean, I, I I'm, I like to just pay attention to what the good Lord's saying. Right? And I will tell you that Pope Benedict the 16th, before he resigned and, and Pope Francis took over, put together this big old list of things that the church needed to pay attention to there's and it was a list of about 30 line items in there.

And like it, somewhere in the twenties there, it said the church needs to communicate more effectively with the world of science. I'm like, pick me, pick me. That's a guy. I, I live in science land. Okay. But the fact is my, my, my faith drives a lot of my interactions here. And in fact, if you go back and you take a look at history, the church has been very, very influential and supportive of scientific developments over the year. That doesn't mean that we didn't do some dumb things in along way.

Jim: We're not gonna go there today. Art.

Art Nutter: Oh, exactly. Okay. But the church is run by humans and humans do stupid human tricks from time to time okay. But the church overall guided it by the holy spirit. Right? Gets there without some, you know, obviously bumps in the road cuz sohow yeah.

I feel blessed to be part of this because one of the other things I hope to do is make catholic education completely free for anybody who would like to go to a Catholic school here in the diocese of Colorado Springs.

Jim: At some point in time, if they can all walk away with a faith as deep as yours, I'm all for it. That's fantastic. Bruce, back to you,

Bruce: Art, thank you so much, my friend, I appreciate it. We look forward to our next conversation. Thanks for making the time today. Sharing your story. And it is one of those unique stories and it's appreciated. And and we just want to be an encouragement to you. As I know, you've been encouragement to our listeners. So thanks, Art, and have a great day.

Art Nutter: Thank you very much, Bruce. And Jim, God bless both of you.

Jim: You bet. You've been listening to. iRetire4Him. We'll be right back.

Break: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book of fruitful retirement. Head out to RetirementReformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement, Retirement Reformation.org/books. That's RetirementReformation.org / books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, Bruce. You and I are talking about your book, the, A Fruitful Retirement book, four of a four series books series right now.

So far, man. I know that. Could be more. I know that you're, you know, you're always looking to write more and it's the future funded ministry series I wanna hit on. Ah, well, there's so many things I wanna hit on, but you know, you mentioned you quote Richard and Leon Bergstrom in your book. One of our past guests, they were they're our past guests on the show.

When you wrote, we believe retirement is not the ending, but it is time for breathing examining, resting, slowing down, renewing. Why is it so hard for ourselves, Bruce, to give ourselves permission, to do the things, to do any of those things. Examining, breathing, resting, slowing down. As we prepare for retirement and to walk in retirement, why is it so hard for those four things? Breathing, examining, resting, and slowing down.

Bruce: Every morning, when I get up five days a week,

Jim: You don't get up all seven? You only get up five days a week?

Bruce: I only get up five days. The other two I'm... Five days a week that I, during the week and Judy and I get up around 4:30 and we head for the gym and we, you know, and we work out for about 45, 50 minutes and come home every morning when I, my feet hit the floor.

I think, man, do I really wanna do this today? Or do I really want to go back to bed? And what I learned was. When I give myself permission to do what I should do that I am. That's when I go from sitting on the edge of the bed to standing up and getting ready and ready to go. We give our need to give ourselves permission.

And we started doing this by the way about two years ago now I was 78 years, years old. When we started doing this, say, my goodness, you should have started doing that when you were, you know, 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 or 70, but it didn't happen till then. So to be able to say, you know, this is something that, that will really be helpful and to give, give ourselves permission to do.

I think in the same way, when there is something new that it comes into our lives and our understanding a new reality, a new truth that in fact, we need to give ourselves permission to do those things. And it's hard to do that because we've never done it before yet when you do it, the result is so, so positive, so energizing, so helpful.

And yet the next time you do it, it still feels strange until it becomes what, until it becomes somewhat of a habit. Right. And we're able to do that. Same thing is true with those characteristics that, that Richard and Leonna talk about because they're all part of the preparation for what's next. They are not an end in themselves.

They're part of the preparation. When I go work out. It's part of a preparation for staying strong to be available of what's next. And, and these are the things that are necessary when we make that transition into retirement and often between the stages of retirement, to be able to take those activities and give yourself permission to do them. Because they aren't then in themselves, they're a preparation for what's next.

Jim: And what's so funny as young people, we hardly ever give ourselves permission to breathe, to examine, to rest or to slow down. I mean, yeah, I'm a few years younger than you. I'm not giving myself much time for that. Ain't nobody got time for that.

That's what we always say, Bruce. I, I wanna finish up the show really focusing on. The six big questions that everybody needs to answer. And, and, and I know I told you what page was on, so make sure we, we, we did this because you say in your book only you can answer these questions, but these six complex retirement questions, they need our best answers. Why don't you go through what those questions are? And, and let's talk about ' em.

Bruce: Very quickly, it's it is a new season. And so there are then new choices. When there are new choices, it means that there are new questions. When there are new questions, you need to answer them in order to be able to take the next steps that kind of just is logical and makes sense.

But often we don't think of it in that, that sequential or that clearer pattern. So, so the first question for, for you and, and you and your spouse. Simply now, how are we going to relate to each other in our new set of circumstances, if I'm home all day, it's gonna make a huge difference. Then if in fact we are separate, how are we going to, you know, how are we going to relate to each other?

And that's an important question. And it's, it's one that can have some specific answers, but it's also a process. The second one is, so what are we gonna do? What are we gonna do? Are we gonna travel? Are we gonna play golf? We gonna play bridge or we're gonna work some more at the church, or we're gonna try to find something individually or together that will bring meaning in purpose.

That is an intentional answer, an intent, an intentional activity that is critical. Now here's the one that really gets to it as a matter of fact. It's where are we going to do it? Mm. Our experience is that that's the most divisive question in most families.

Jim: Why is that so divisive?

Bruce: Often and you I'll just pose a, a circumstance. So, so whatever the whether the, let's say the husband was say in the military, They gotta move. Every three years, somebody was telling 'em exactly where they gotta go and what they gotta do, or someone is in the mission world. And they were called to missions in here and there, or wherever it was now often, often the wife, but not necessarily says, okay, For the last 40 years or 30 years, we've either had people tell us, or you've decided, or the circumstance decided of where we're gonna live. Now I'm gonna speak into that.

Jim: It's about time.

Bruce: And so we gonna live near the kids, or we gonna live away from the kids. Are we gonna live someplace where there's things that we enjoy doing hiking and whatever it may be, or are we going to go someplace that we can afford? Are we gonna move to a small town in Indiana or in Idaho?

Or are we gonna go to a retirement community in Florida? And so all these living circumstances are probably the messiest and the most difficult to determine. My only wise advice on that would be is come to the best conclusion you can and be prepared to move again. Yeah, because that's most likely what's gonna happen.

Yeah. So part of that then answers the question of who are we gonna do retirement with? Is it gonna be, you know, our friends of the last 20 years, or are we gonna go someplace and make some new ones? Who are we gonna, or are we going to be dedicated to our parents for, or family? Yeah. Family. Yeah. Family and parents.

So who are we gonna do retirement with? And, and the only two things you can be sure of. When you, when, when you move is that you will have to make new friends. And the other issue is that you take yourself with you. You don't leave yourself in that old place. You take it with you. So, and there's a lot of implications of that.

Then finally, of course, how are we gonna finance it? Having a pretty good sense of, of what that is. It's amazing to me. How people. So let's say they're 64 and they're gonna retire at 65 and I'm speaking with them. And I, I ask them, by the way, how much does it cost you every month to live? They have no idea.

The paycheck's worth is the unsaid answer. So to be intentional about that, and then what is really important to you? What are your priorities? What's really important to you? And it may be different for a husband and a wife. And so to be able to understand what's important to your spouse and be able to support, encourage whatever that is, as well as, as vice versa.

And so those are the, those are top six questions that if you can answer those. So who are you if you sum it up? As in the beginning of that chapter, I tell a story. and it's says, ask the question, who are you? And where are you going?

Jim: Hmm. Those six questions again, how are we going to relate to each other?

What are we going to do? Where are we gonna do it? Who are we gonna do it with? How are we gonna finance it? And what is most important in retirement, Bruce, those are powerful questions and the questions that everybody needs to ask in order to experience. A Fruitful Retirement, a great way to end this, Bruce, what a great book, a resource that all of you listeners, all of us can get a copy online on Amazon or on Retirement Reformation.org.

Along with many of the other books of Bruce's, bruce has written. Bruce, any final thoughts before we say goodbye to the part four of four series on A Fruitful Retirement, any final words?

Bruce: Oh, only that the call to fruitfulness is a call that Jesus makes on our lives and he makes it because he loves us cheers for us, and he wants the best for us. And when we are fruitful, we will experience the best.

Jim: Thank you, Bruce. You've been listening to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation online at RetirementReformation.org. I've been privileged to be your host, Jim Brangenberg. And along with Bruce Bruinsma, with the founder of the Retirement Reformation we're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation, so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him. With your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. iRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love. Serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians.

To find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation.org.

5/9/22 - iRetire4Him Show 61: A Fruitful Retirement, Part 3

Intro: While, retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus. God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him!

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are already in retirement or fast approaching you've tuned into, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenburg, along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, check us out online retirementreformation.org.

We have a ton of resources, written resources, audio resources. We've got all kinds of website resources. Plans. We've got, we've got it all. When it comes to revolutionizing the way you look at retirement, we've got it all - retirementreformation.org.

Christians are called to ministry for a lifetime impacting and changing lives is more than a priority it's God's mandate for every one of us. This mandate the call in our lives has two parts. The common golfer, all believers is dominion. Well impacting others and helping to change lives. Then there is our unique call, which is based on our unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities. But how does all that play out in our retirement? Retirement's not all a reward for past service, but also a stepping stone, a launching pad for a future ministry as Bruce Bruinsma would say if future fully funded ministry, first prize, but joins us today, the founder of the Retirement Reformation.

Cause he just released his latest book in the future funded ministry series. And it's called the results of a future funded ministry plan. Bruce joins us today for part three of a four part series, talking about how your retirement years can be fruitful. Bruce, welcome back to I'll retire for him.

Bruce: Oh, there's lots to talk with you, Jim, and particularly, but when we're talking about a topic as encouraging as this. The, the affirmation that we are, the, the direction that we are to be fruitful. And the affirmation that when we are the wonderful benefits that come from it.

Jim: First, you sold your company in 2020. You wanted to, because you wanted to devote more time and energy to helping people successfully navigate retirement. But you had to figure out that for yourself too. Didn't you?

Bruce: It's it's an ongoing challenge as we come to each stage of life. And, and if our audience would just think back, you know, when you made the transition from your twenties to your thirties, from your thirties to your forties and forties to fifties, there, there are always things that you had to figure out.

Some of them were forced on you and you had to figure it out. And then there are some that you just kind of didn't understand and you needed to figure out well, in, in, in my case figuring it out is still an ongoing process because you have to figure it out a number of different times that, that chat, that change from career, if you wish, or company ownership to not or from career to not, you got to figure that out.

And if you can get a leg up by understanding what's coming and know what's true, that helps you to figure it out. I will say I'm still figuring. Well, you also we'll figure it out again when you go into that next second stage and then to the third stage. So it's, you know, in the vernacular, it's a constant process of figuring out and enlisting to what God has you to do during during that time.

Jim: Is it any really different than what Paul said? We had to work out our faith. You're working out your retirement because you're working out your retirement in your faith. It's like the same thing. You're wrestling with God to go, okay, what's next? Just because there's this word, retirement plastered over. It doesn't mean it's any different, does it?

Bruce: No. The you know, the whole idea of retirement comes out of the industrial revolution and we've talked about that at other other podcasts and the way that all develop, but it's a, it's a cultural, it's a cultural issue. It is not a, that that then becomes a life. And the, and the challenge is that when it is a life issue and you're going from being fairly clear about what you're retiring from to either not having any idea or having perhaps a not complete idea of what in fact is coming next, then the struggle to sort through it becomes much harder, much more confusing and much more difficult.

Not only do we have the relationships between. Figure it out for ourselves, but figuring it out in relation to our spouse we interviewed, we did an interview with, with a woman who wrote a book and talking about, you know, what do you do when your husband's home all the time from a husband's standpoint, what do you do when you're home all the time and you can't find the peanut butter, what do you do?

You go to your wife and you ask her where's the peanut butter. And she looks at you. You've got two heads. Why don't you go back to your study? I'll bring you the dumb peanut butter. And so we have all these things to figure out what she might say.

Jim: She might say, oh honey, I'll tell you. She might not be mad at you unless you've asked for 50 times.

Bruce: Yeah. It's when it's a constant process, you don't know where anything is and you keep bugging her about where they are.

Jim: In all your books. Bruce, you talk about the three phases of retirement that, that it's, that it's not just all one phase that it's broken up into three phases, but it's really talking about how do our listening friends find the right activities to match their phase in life and their phase in retirement to see, okay, God, how can you use me best? How do they find out what's best?

Bruce: Well, we, we, first of all, we have a universal mandate that we can all see very quickly. Love your neighbor and spread the word. So on a general basis, that's always a wonderful place to start. Am I loving my neighbor? And am I spreading the word now? Then you go to the unique part of how God calls us to be able to do that, to be able to love our neighbor and spread the word.

We had an interview with my friend Art Nutter, and he's developing something called patent books, and it's a whole new, big deal. I got another friend that what, what he's called to do is to love the four houses on either side of him and the people that are in it and specials. So we have the general mandate, love your neighbor, spread the word, then how do we fit into God's plan to be able to do.

Jim: It's really managing our freedom, make us as so many people retire from, to do the retire from something to do nothing. And they've got this new found freedom and they're, they're trying to figure out what's the reality of this situation. I mean, this freedom is it's a lot to handle. It's like somebody giving you a hundred grand, what are you doing?

If you're going to be smart, you're going to ask the Lord what you should do with it. But a lot of us are just like, I got this freedom. I'm gonna do whatever I wanna do.

Bruce: Actually, you know, Jim, when you think about it during our working years, it was much simpler. You know, when you got up in the morning, you went to work unless it was Saturday and you did, you did honeydews and on Sunday you went to church, you know, it was all kind of laid out for you now, you know, the, the good news is that we have freedom.

The bad news is that we often don't know what to do with it. And so to be able to take those God's principles and those applications and apply them during that during this time, it's also going to be not just one answer, but it's going to be a continued growing and changing process.

Jim: And what are some of those freedoms that the people are going to experience during the retirement years?

Bruce: Well, we got, first of all, the most obvious one is you have the freedom of. You get to choose, what are you going to do? How long are you going to sleep in? When are you going to do when you get up, et cetera, et cetera. So, so you have the freedom of time. And the challenge is to be intentional and a good steward of that time.

So I can, you have your emotions. And so you have a greater freedom to be able to express them and to be able to research and so on. So, so you have that peace now you've got the freedom. To what degree are you going to grow spirits? And you have the freedom to choose. Are you in fact, going to read your Bible?

Are you not, are you going to pray or are you at, you're going to go for a walk in the woods and listen to God talking to you or are you not? And so you have the freedom of choice and so that wonderful freedom of choice is, is just what a great benefit unless you don't use it. And, you know, Hey, all those areas where stewardship is real and turn that into nothing.

Jim: So, so where do you find yourself, Bruce Bruinsma? Where do you find yourself working in those freedoms that you've been given in your retirement years? Where do you find yourself focused the most?

Bruce: Well, I have the intentionality of, of helping the 15 million Christ followers. As you say, in the introduction, to think differently about this area of retirement. And the reason is because we don't have very many models. If we had a lot of models, there would be no reason for me to do this. But in fact, he's called to call me to do this and to invite thousands of others into the same conversation expressed in their life and to be able to make a difference for the kingdom.

I really feel the intense loss. Oh, the fact that there are probably 45, 50 million Christ followers or in this retirement age, or just coming into it or are in it and really are doing nothing. Hmm. And I, I, you know, it makes me cry. It just, it, it hurts that that's true because it doesn't need to be true what it is that they are losing and what it is that the kingdom is losing.

You don't have to be that way. All of us know somebody right in our world that it's say, oh my gosh, don't they get it? Don't don't don't they understand that they're, they're part of causing their own pain? And in that, that if they get it, it's, it's the same pain. It's, it's another version of the pain that, that we have as Christians for the world... if they only knew Jesus...

it would make such a difference in the same thought process. If they only knew what Jesus wanted for them and is made available to them, it would make such a difference. And yet most of our world doesn't get it. And so we're about doing everything we possibly can to change that for Christ followers.

So that in fact, meaning and purpose. And impacting the kingdom so that in fact, they can be assured that when they stand in front of the father and he says, good and faithful servant to the very end.

Jim: Right. Very good. All right, we'll be right back and more. And iRetire4Him with our special second segment guest, Mario Zandstra. Listening to iRetire4Him. Check us out online retirementreformation.org.

Break: Hey listeners. We would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement. Head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including a fruitful retirement.

RetirementReformation.org/books. That's retirementreformation.org/books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Bruce, during every second segment of every podcast we've ever done, he was bring on a special guest. Who do you have for us today?

Bruce: Well, I like to introduce our audience to Marios Zandstra. And it's always just a special pleasure when I have the opportunity to connect with someone with a name like , because it reminds me of Bruinsma and that reminds both of us, of our Dutch heritage. And so we automatically know we have points of connection.

And that's really good. So Mario, we welcome and, and we're, we're, the audience is going to be pleased to hear a little bit about your story. So let's kind of begin with that. Give us just a quick executive summary of who is Mario Zandstra and how'd you get to where you are.

Mario Zandstra: Well, thank you for asking Bruce. It's good to be with you. And you know, that whole Dutch heritage, you know, you ain't Dutch, you ain't much is kind of the, is kind of a, we like to say it. So you know, I was born in the Netherlands, actually moved to the United States when I was a little boy. And I was raised in a home in east Los Angeles and went to the university of Southern California.

Ultimately got a degree in business and was one of those guys who's just going to spend my life making money. And and I did that for the better part of 17 years. And then I read a little book called Halftime by Bob Buford and it kinda rocked my world.

Bruce: Well, Ithat book rocked a lot of people's world.

Jim: Millions of people.

Mario Zandstra: That's right. Well, I read that book and it at the ripe old age of 38 or 39, I actually wrote a plan that was going to take me from the business world into the ministry world. But I, I thought I was going to be a pastor. That was my, my my desire. And anyway, in that in God's funny sense of humor, I was on the board of a ministry and their executive director left and they were looking for a ministry guy with business experience to hire. And then they switched the job description to a business guy with ministry, passion. And I saw that job description and low behold, I became a candidate.

Bruce: And how has that worked out?

Mario Zandstra: Well, I spent 17 years running a Christian camp in Tyler, Texas called pine Cove Christian camp. And in my previous life, I was in the commercial real estate development business and brokerage business.

And so we, we would raise money, build buildings and we would be compensated based on the internal rate of return and And then I ended up going to work for this Christian camp. And we had three camps when we started nine camps when I left. And basically I was still in the real, real estate development business, but instead of an internal rate of return, I was working on an eternal rate of return.

And some 30,000 kids came to Christ over the course of my 17 years. And that ministry now is 55 years old.

Bruce: It's a wonderful a wonderful facility and, and you know, it, they're almost any group that you're speaking to say, how many of you have been impacted in your spiritual walk by a time at a camp and the number of hands that go up as amazing.

And so you're, you're part of the cause of that. And so we want to thank you for those 17 years. So what are, what's a couple of the lessons that you've learned and in that period of time, and then since. That, that, that help you during this period of time that the world calls retirement. But all it is is just a refocusing of how we do ministry.

Mario Zandstra: Well, what's interesting is, is that you know, I left pine Cove and I went and worked for a season for Dr. Tim Keller and working for him, gave me a heart for the world. And then I worked at a mission agency and we did work in 49 scary countries. And then then, you know, it's just funny how God works.

So I had real estate experience. I had camp experience and then I had leadership experience and had a chance to take over a ministry that had a camp. Owned a bunch of property in Zambia and needed a new leader. And so I think, I think what I've learned the most is that, is that a, you know, you've got to have a willingness to be available.

You've got to have a willingness to exercise the talents that God has given you. And ultimately when you think about you know, the way you're involved to always give glory to God, the work that happened at Pine Cover was not me. It was God in me and and God assembled a great team there. And God has assembled a great team where I'm working.

Bruce: You know, the the, the process that you talked about, the, the first of all being available, you know, that's more important than anything else. You gotta be willing to walk through the door and if you're not willing to walk through the door, nothing, secondly, is that, is that to be able to, to look at all the experiences that all of us have, every one of our lists.

As experiences and that prepares them for what's next, whether they know what's next or they're just simply open to what's next. Right. That's right. So talk a little bit about what it means to be open to what's next. What does that feel like? What does that, what does that look like?

Mario Zandstra: Well, you know, for me, and maybe you fall in this category, Bruce, I'm a recovering control freak, and, and as a recovering control freak, you know, it's very hard to think about.

Actually surrendering your plans or surrendering your will to, to, to God himself. I actually wrote a song once and it was entitled. I surrender almost all and you know what, you know how you do it, you surrender things and then you take them back from God, you surrender them. But what I've found really simply over the last 10 years is that and God's ways were always better than mine.

But he has a plan and it's, and it's perfect. And he's actually known about it before he uttered the words in the beginning. And and so it really has to do with listening to the still small voice of God. And I would also say that in my case my wife has had a profound impact on many of the things that I've done.

As a matter of fact, this job, I had the job description for it, and I was giving it to a friend and I had the job description sitting on a dining room table at our house. And I left it there overnight, forgot to grab it the next morning. And I came home from work and my wife said that job actually describes you.

And I said, oh man, I'm never going to work in Zambia. I mean, come on. We live in the United States, we've got a great life. We've got all these grandkids. And anyway, never say never. First of all, I, you know, not only did Justin Bieber say that, but, but I can say that as well. Never say never to God. And it's just amazing to think that.

Really used my wife to actually open my eyes to that opportunity. And you know, our wives have a very unique opportunity to kind of speak into our lives. And you know, we don't always like what they say, but, but it really has made a big difference in my life. I would say two or three of the biggest business decisions, ministry decisions, career decisions I made of my wife actually probably had more to do with it than me.

She, she could see. God had a plan that was maybe one that I didn't fully understand.

Bruce: Well, God intended us to grow and to learn from each other and to do it in community and with our spouses, that's you know, that's a pretty special community and then it extends from there. And so if we continue to be exposed, whether it be to a book, whether it be to a podcast, whether it be to an individual whether it be to a job.

That we see just simply that openness of being available and then being willing to listen to that still small voice and to recognize it, I think recognizing is the first step. And then being willing to listen is the, is the second. And it comes to all of us in different ways. But to know that that's true and God is always out.

Well, Mario, that's a you know, you you've, we thank you for your fruitful life and the fruitful life. That's ahead. And we say in the retirement reclamation that the, that a fruitful life has meaning and purpose in life. And then that, that leads to joy and freedom. And so there we go. Jim, did you have a question?

Jim: I did - Mario okay. So Bruce and I have been talking to in a, in a series on his book, a fruitful retirement, and one of the things we've been talking about is this unretiremint and it already sounds like you've unretired a couple of times. What do you think is next in your unretired?

Mario Zandstra: Well, you know, it's interesting. So I I'm 65 and you know, 65 is the new 50 really.

I mean, I believe I got a lot of time left. I've got a lot of energy left. I've got a lifetime worth of experiences. And if you, if you think about the stages of life you know, you're a lover, that's ages one through 20, you're a warrior that's from your early twenties to your mid forties. Then you become a king and then you become a Sage.

And I think really in some ways for Bruce and myself and perhaps you too, we're kind of in the Sage years of life. So, so for example, I met with a gentleman today he's 54 and he's trying to figure out a little bit more about life and we just talked about, well, you know, what's, what is your desire over the next five years?

And what has God laid on your heart? And so I think, I think part of it is mentoring people coming alongside people and helping them really. Think through, you know, what, what might God have in store? And then, you know, I mean, I'm, I'm an evangelist by, by personality. I'm a teacher and you know what I hate to waste.

I hate to waste those talents. And so looking for different opportunities to share I think is, is being prudent, is trying to steward the time, the talent and the treasure. In a way that would bring glory and honor to God.

Bruce: Wow. My friend. It doesn't get any better than that. So let's just stop right there. Mario, Thank you so much for making time to be available with us and look forward to having you back on iRetire4Him and we can extend the conversation and the wisdom that God has blessed you with. And so thank you for sharing it. We appreciate it.

Mario Zandstra: Well, thank you so much for letting me be part of it. Have a great day.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Hey, listen. We would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement, head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement, retirementreformation/books.

That's retirementreformation.org/books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. Bruce, going back to your book of A Fruitful Retirement. I not to go on negative, but we talk all the time and how we can succeed and thrive and retirement, but sometimes we can blow it to in chapter seven, you describe blowing it in retirement. Give us some examples.

Bruce: Well, you know, during the decades of, let me just read part of this just right from the chapter. During the decades of work and the home improvement industry, Bob Bob had his heart set on a retirement dream. He modeling and expanding his own home review, spending more of his time since he was no longer had to spend most of the day at the office a few weeks after he, after he retired, the man I referred to called Bob the builder was putting plans into place for three major home projects. He did a man-cave and enclosed patio and remodeled garage. And we all have those kinds of themes of, you know, how the house is good, but it needs more, 16 months later, the projects were completed. The dust and disruption had settled and Bob beamed with pride about the improvements in his camp.

On the other hand, he and his wife, Linda now had nearly $100,000 less for their retirement years and they had the day quit working. Bob's building expenditures meant the couple had to adapt to a tighter budget than they had wanted leading Linda to reluctantly return to teaching in public school part-time. Well, the unintended consequences of very good deed. And so. They had great pride in, in, in those, in Bob, at his man cave. And they had an enclosed patio and they had a remodel garage, but they had to make adjustments. And so realizing that we don't think fully about the implications of what we're doing, the unintended consequences come back at us. And then we have to be able to, and willing to adapt how much better it would have been for Bob to have budgeted that some years before. So they had the a hundred thousand dollars set aside and it wouldn't reduce his retirement flexibility. Just an example.

Jim: How do we make sure we don't blow it? I mean, it's you go on, you give a lots of examples through a chapter seven of blowing it. How do we make sure we're not one of those statistics?

Bruce: Best way as to have a plan, as I said before, and I'll say it often, you know, you've got to start with what's true. And so if what's true is that you don't have enough, or if what's true is, you know, pick it you know, Bob's situation.

So you need to know what's true and you need to have a plan. Once you have a plan. What you're doing with that plan is you're anticipating what's coming ahead for you and, and you can make arrangements for that to be taken care of. It's kind of one of the reasons that we typically recommend that people pay off their.

So that in fact that is not a major cost issue, although insurance and everything else is going nuts, but, but that the, that the house is owned and that the value of its increase will be a buffer for you. And so planning ahead and doing it intentionally And, and is the best way to approach it.

Jim: And surrounding yourself with people for wise counsel, you got to sometimes the wise counsel thing here. I think you have that, that Solomon talks about awesome all the time. Often. I think it'd be really appropriate here to keep you from blowing it.

Bruce: Well, if I could say that the, one of the things we're looking forward to as the message of the Retirement Reformation expands is to be able to build communities of individuals.

Small groups. If you wish that in fact can meet together and share their accumulated knowledge and wisdom and screw ups and all the things that happen in life and that we can learn from each other because we learn best in community and is the easiest to learn from other people's mistakes, not yours.

Jim: It's the least painful, but often not used. Often we have to make our own. First, you're going to talk about it in the next chapter about the longevity premium. What's that, is that something I've got to pay on my taxes or something or what?

Bruce: Yeah. It's where I can send you a bill for it actually is the way it's going to go. But the longevity premium is the benefits that come from having more time.

To be able to address the issues and to be able to grow spiritually impact others and define that meaning and purpose. If your life is cut short, when we say, you know, someone, someone died and their life was cut short or really saying is they didn't have the opportunity to experience and to be able to share those experiences with others, to find meaning and purpose and that, that sense of loss.

And so the, the premium is to be able to grow personally. And to be able to experience community and be able to then be able to impact others. Like the lady that we talked to, where her knitting group ended up in the, in the in, in the seating area of a mall and they were able to impact. Another whole generation in a surprising way.

Jim: You say that six areas of our life will benefit from this longevity premium. Well, what are those six areas?

Bruce: Well, I tell you why just to make sure that I've got those, I better look them up to make sure that I don't forget them. Here we go. First one is wisdom. That means applied application of what it is that we have learned spiritual growth. Finding many and purpose, greater emotional maturity, contentment, and increased capacity for service and leadership, so increased capacity, but that really means is being available to be able to use the gifts and talents that you have to be able to impact the lives of others in those circumstances that you find yourself or that God puts.

Jim: And you've got that increased capacity because you're not working full-time anymore. And you've got that.

Bruce: That was one of the key things about increased capacity is, is to do that. I think the, one of the areas that, that I find in on that I talk about a lot is this whole idea of meaning and purpose and, and the reason why talk about it so much is because when you have meaning and purpose, it allows your past.

To provide energy and to provide perseverance and to provide access and to provide and ASM. And so if you're not working in your area of meaning and purpose, then in fact, you will be less than all that you can be.

Jim: You know, I find in that list, the list of these six areas of that'll benefit from your longevity, premium wisdom, spiritual growth, meaning and purpose, greater emotional maturity, contentment, increased capacity for service and leadership is contentment.

It seems like contentment as one of the things that Americans really need to work on. How do you see that playing out in your own life, Bruce? Contentment.

Bruce: Hey, contentment is the capacity to remain calm in the face of an emotional challenge. Contentment is the ability to see a solution to a problem that is difficult.

To me, contentment is the ability to respond gently to a conversation with Judy, for example, that perhaps in years past, I would have responded with emotion, not always positive, but that sense of contentment, another piece of contentment is, is another part of contentment is peace. That peace that God is in control.

I don't have to manage it all. All I have to do is represent him in the circumstance and to call upon all the great experiences that he's given and the grace and the DNA to be able to deal with it. So, so it's living a life of contentment. Isn't a life of not doing anything. It's a light, it's a life of being able to deal with the issues of life in a God honoring way, in a way that.

You'll remain peaceful. Therefore you remain powerful.

Jim: And Paul said it i n Philippians 4:11 through 13, you have to learn to be content first. Let's end the show today with you commenting on the age wave, the realization that we want to be more useful than youthful. What is this age wave thing all about?

Bruce: Our society, our culture - the value of youth has great value. It has energy. It has has health. It has curiosity. It has all of those things. And yet, as a result of that, in fact, as we age, we're able to use those experiences to be able to tell. Our understanding and our application of life to a different level. There are 10,000 people turning 65 in the United States, United States and Canada, every single day. Package that accumulated wisdom and apply it. We might have a chance for world peace. And so here is the ongoing of the greatest, the fastest growing age group percentage-wise in the country is 90 year olds on a percentage basis, not numbers, but on a percentage basis, they are growing the fastest. And so we have this reality of age and longevity and we either let it destroy or we take it as an opportunity to build the kingdom.

I vote for the latter.

Jim: Absolutely. Bruce, we've been talking all day long about segments excerpts from your latest book of fruitful retirement. How can people get a copy of this?

Bruce: Thank you. Have a copy of book at Amazon or any place that books are sold and you can also go to our website. Just retirementreformation.org.

Not only will you find this as a resource but there's lots of other resources there that are good. And so when we, when we realize that it's the fourth in a series, starting with finding freedom, then moving forward, then charting your course and finally A Fruitful Retirement.

Jim: Bruce great conversation today. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your host, Jim Brangenburg and Retirement Reformation's founder, Bruce Bruinsma . Check us out online retirementreformation.org. So many resources out there, Retirement Reformation.org, we're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation.

So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to, iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenburg. And Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement. You can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money. And invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life, especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirementreformation dot O R G.

4/25/22 - iRetire4Him Show 60: A Fruitful Retirement, Part 2

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self-focus God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation, so you can say, iRetire4Him.

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are fast approaching retirement or already in retirement. You've tuned in to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, check us out online on our app in the app store, download Retirement Reformation in the apple podcast or in the apple app store or online on Facebook, Retirement Reformation on our website, RetirementReformation.org.

Christians are called to ministry for a lifetime. Impacting and changing lives is more than a priority; it's God's mandate to all of us, but what does that look like in retirement? The common call for all believers to minister, while impacting others and help to change lives, no matter where we are in life, then there's our unique goal, which is based on our unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities.

But how does all that play out in our retirement? Retirement is not only the reward for past service, with a little less stress, but also a stepping stone, a launching pad for future ministry, future fully funded ministry. As Bruce Bruinsma says - the founder of the Retirement Reformation just released his latest book in the future funded ministry series.

Book number four, A Fruitful Retirement is what it's called the result of a future funded ministry. Bruce joins us today for part two of a four part series, talking about how your retirement years can be A Fruitful Retirement. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Thanks, Jim. Good to be here. And I remember when when you think about fruit, you think about what? If you're in a field of fruit, let's say it's a apple orchard. What you have to do is to, to really appreciate it. Enjoy. And to experience it. You got to go pick an apple, you got to take some action. And so being fruitful, isn't looking inward, it's reaching outward.

Jim: And I think it's taken that example even further, Bruce, if you're in an orchard or of any type, an apple orchard, an orange orchard, a grape vine orchard, whatever they call those. Sorry! They take decades to be fruitful to be really fruitful. And there's a lot of pruning involved and there's, and by the time the apple trees and orange trees are really fruitful.

And by the time grapevines are really fruitful, they're gnarly and they, they they're, they've seen some weather and they've seen some challenge and that's when they give you their best fruit. And that's really the great example of A Fruitful Retirement. These are the best years of our life. Aren't they Bruce?

Bruce: They are. And the you can take that example and continue to expand it. I think our audience will connect with that. And so just because you're going downhill somewhat physically or somewhat mentally does not mean that you're closer walk with God, your emotional growth that you have and maturity that you have in your understanding of, of life in its flow and process can more than outweigh any of those physical issues that you have to be able to bring you that meaning and purpose as you apply that and connect with others.

Jim: Yeah, Bruce, and in my book, iRetire4Him I said, this: listen as a retired person or chronologically superior person, and maybe you're not old enough to run the place anymore, but you're perfect age to be a coach.

And you could always, there's always time whether your legs work or your arms work or no. If your mind is working, you can pour your life into somebody else. Bruce, in chapter three of, of fruitful retirement, you say that a quarter or more of Americans who retire will go back to work. Why? Why is that?

Bruce: It's interesting. We're learning a lot about that for a while. For, for a long time, we really thought that the reason they went back to work was because. They haven't planned well enough financially. They had to go back in order to earn money. That was the common understanding. And while in some cases, that is absolutely true.

Or finding that in an increasingly large number of places that, that in fact, your work, where you worked or the work that you do is where your ministry takes place. Where are your relationships continue to flourish, where your opportunity to be encouraged and to work with others as part of a team that really is important to you happens.

And so we're seeing more and more people that are, that are going back to work because it's the environment where they feel the most fulfilled. All I can say to that is hooray and, and, and if that is the case, then go for it. The lack of... it's a wonderful time for people to consider that because there's jobs available everywhere of all different kinds.

Jim: All over the country.

Bruce: In every area it's impacted by that. So it's a wonderful time that if in fact that, you know, maybe, maybe it's three days a week, maybe it's two days a week, whatever it may be, that if in fact that's an area where. You can both minister, in other words, impact others' lives as well as be fulfilled yourself, nothing wrong with that.

Jim: Since most people retire because their work takes away their time and their energy and their freedom. How can people find work in their retirement years that builds in time and increases energy and lets them still feel the freedom while fulfilling their unique calling? Or how does that happen? How can they get that?

Bruce: No, it's interesting. It's an interesting human phenomenon, but when you let go, instead of losing control, you gain control.

And so when you have freedom to be able to respond to opportunities and needs, that freedom is, is priceless. Now if we go back and the way I read my Bible, it says we are always going to work. Work means putting out effort. So we're going to always be putting out effort. It's never going to be a time when we don't put out effort.

The question is, what are you, why are you putting out the effort? What are you putting out the effort for? And what is the result of the effort? If it is to lower your golf score, you're going to work hard. You're sweating. When you're coming off the 18th hole, you worked. You put effort and intentionality into what you're doing, that's leisure and that has value. But now can we find meaning because we're all going to work one way or another.

Jim: You know it's really important for us when we talk about the word work. When you look at the word work in Hebrew, which is written throughout the old Testament, isn't the word for work is also the same for worship and is also the same for service because God intended our work to be worship.

No matter what that work is. And when we look at it that way, all of a sudden things, that's a paradigm shifter. When you start to really look at that and I, my Hebrew's not great. I had somebody else tell me that and I studied it. But when you realize that, that the very essence of our work, which God gave to us before sin entered the world, it was all about worshiping him, bring glory, bringing glory to our heavenly father through our work.

I think that's a fantastic. First, one last question in this segment. You mentioned in A Fruitful Retirement, you say no two retirements are the same. Why, why is that important to understand?

Bruce: It's important to understand that. In fact, when we are looking for models to, to help us to understand what this retirement is all about, to realize that God made each one of us unique and special, each one of us is unique.

Therefore, ours are his plan for. The DNA that we're born with, the experiences that we have and the attitude to which we bring to these next stages are all going to be unique and different. And so it's when you are reaching out and impacting someone else's life, there may be the category of people that you can really relate to, and the help may be different than those of your spots.

And so to realize what's true, is that that's okay because we are all each unique, although created in God's image. Yeah.

Jim: One size does not fit all. And just because it's working for Bob to go down to work at home Depot doesn't mean it's for you. Maybe that you got to go work at five guys, which, you know, the food is pretty good.

Hi, you're listening to, iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. We'd love for you to check us out. Online retirementreformation.org. Go to our resources. Look up books and get yourself a copy of, a fruitful retirement. Of course you can also get it on Amazon. We'll be right back with the conversation with author Sharon Mondragon and about her book, The Unlikely Yarn of the Dragon Lady.

We'll be right back. Hang on.

Break: Hey listeners. We would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement. Head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement, retirementreformation.org/books. That's retirementreformation.org/books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. Every second segment, we always bring on a special guest to share a little bit of this. And this week I'm invited another author, an author, Sherry Mondragon. She wrote this book, The Unlikely Yarn of the Dragon Lady.

And you're like, Jim, we have a novel that we're going to highlight during the second segment? Hang on. You'll see why. Sherry welcome to iRetire4Him.

Sharon Mondragon: Well, thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

Jim: So, so grateful to have you on. I loved your book, The Unlikely Yarn of the Dragon Lady. Why did you write this specific novel about a bunch of mostly retired ladies being kicked out of their comfort zone? Is there something personal in here?

Sharon Mondragon: The very first prayer shawl group that I belonged to was meeting in public, when this group of women went to the pastor and said, we'd really love to have a prayer shawl ministry. The pastor said, well, sure, you can do that, but you can't meet at the church. I want you to do your knitting in public.

And so that was my first experience. But. Also, I began to wonder: the women that I knitted with went willingly. They were happy to meet in public, but what if there was a group of women, women who weren't happy about the idea of what might happen?

Jim: Well, and you wrote an entire book about it. This is great. You use the pastor of a local church - a local church that was failing as a local church. It was struggling - to kick the knitting group out of the chapel. Use the excuse of, Hey, the chapel is going to go through some renovations. Why do you think it's so important that even a knitting group needs to get out of the church? Why did your pastor say not here? Take it out of here?

Sharon Mondragon: Well, I think that it's our pastor's job to challenge us, to take it out of here. At the end of every service that I go to, he says, go in peace to love and serve the Lord. So we are supposed to go out there and he is the one who supposed to commission us, nudge us, kick us to do it.

Jim: So when your knitters got kicked out of the chapel and the pastor said, go, go be out in the public. They started knitting in public at a coffee shop. What did they learn? What did they learn about themselves?

Sharon Mondragon: Well, they had thought that they were fairly invisible, especially when women get to a certain age, we tend to feel that way. But their very first time out a college student who was studying at the coffee shop, came over and wanted to know what they were doing.

And when she found out that they were praying, she asked them to pray about her anatomy test. People noticed when they sat there knitting. They weren't invisible.

Jim: Mm. So powerful. But then they got kicked out of the coffee shop and they decided just to go into the sitting area at the mall. What further transformation did they realize when they got out in public?

Sharon Mondragon: Well, they became visible to even more people. And to a very different demographic than what they had been involved with before, simply a church. The retail workers caught wind of the fact that, that they would pray for people that the college students spread the word because she passed her anatomy test and they would come every Wednesday morning to the sitting area.

And there would be a stack of paper napkins with prior requests. And they became aware of the needs of the young people who worked at the mall, the college students, the young people trying to make ends meet the young people, just trying to, to survive their jobs in retail. They got to know a whole different group of people.

Jim: And they saw the value they were to that community. That, I mean, they really saw it, it transformed those lives. And I love the fact that they're like, what are all these napkins on the table? Oh, my word they're prayer requests. It's so fantastic. Now the dragon lady in your story is a woman named Margaret.

She's kind of the overbearing annoying lady at church who's always causing trouble. And she was the leader of this knitting group self-imposed leader of this knitting. What did she learn about herself as she got kicked out of her comfort zone?

Sharon Mondragon: She learned that she wasn't as in control as she thought she was. And through the situations and the people that the group met at the mall, she became increasingly confronted with the root cause of her need to control. And she learned that God wanted her to do it a different way.

Jim: Hmm. And she did it. I mean, she was a retired quote, unquote, a retired lady. And she was a little stuck in her in her ways to say. I mean, if you know, Saturday night live and the church lady honestly describes Margaret inside your book pretty well. But she, she had a transformation, didn't she?

Sharon Mondragon: Yes, she did.

Jim: I know you don't want to give it away, but I want to give it away. I mean, this is fantastic. You need to read this story in order to understand the power of God in our lives when you get kicked out of our comfort zone. Sherri. So many of our listeners have relegated themselves in retirement to hanging out with people who look just like them and are in the same time of life, speak some encouragement to them.

What you learned yourself as your knitting community got kicked out of their comfort zone as well? What did our knitters learn about themselves and their value to the community and speak that same encouragement to our listeners today?

Sharon Mondragon: Well, I originally had written this because I felt like people of my age still have something to give, but it's not just that. It's not that we still have something to give it's that we have more to give than at any other time in our lives. We have love and compassion and wisdom that's been tempered and forged in the fires of life. We have time to listen, to offer friendship, to pray, to care to people of all ages. And we have a steadiness that has come because we've been through so much and God has been faithful.

Over the years, it's a calm and a steadiness that this world that's increasingly anxious needs. Especially the young people. I see far more anxiety in young people than I ever remember experiencing myself. But I also know that when I was the middle-aged mother of a couple of troubled teens, it was the Denisons of the early service at St. Christopher's church in Killeen, Texas, who took me under their wing, who listened, who prayed, who didn't bat an eyelash what I told them, my wild tales of parenting these boys. And they gave me courage to make the decisions that had to be made in order for the right things to happen. And I will be forever grateful to those people.

Jim: Shout out to the Denisons. Sherry, where can people get a copy of your book, The Unlikely Yarn fo the Dragon Lady? Where can they get a copy?

Sharon Mondragon: Well, it's available on Amazon, Barnes and noble, Christianbook.com. It comes in three forms, paperback, Kindle, and the audio book. The audio book is fantastic.

Jim: Do you read it or do you get a whole bunch of your kids to read it?

Sharon Mondragon: Oh, no, I didn't, I didn't read it. No,the incomparable christine Moore was the narrator for that and she did a fabulous job. There's chapter 23. I can't read it without crying, no matter how many times I've read it. So I was very glad to have a professional do it.

Jim: Sherry, it was so great to share your book. I enjoyed it thoroughly and I loved the life lesson that we just need. We need as older chronologically superior folks, we need to get out in the public. The young people desperately need access to us and yeah, they can learn knitting, but if they can learn knitting and prayer at the same time and some other practical stuff is so powerful. Thanks for sharing your book. And thanks for being on iRetire4Him today.

Sharon Mondragon: Thank you so much for having me. It was a joy.

Jim: I really appreciate it. We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Break: Hey. We would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement, head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement. Retirementreformation.org/books. That's retirementreformation.org/books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Himm, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce, we're talking about your book and the conversation about your book, A Fruitful Retirement, your, your latest one for us over the years. You've asked people, what do you want to do in retirement?

What's the one word answer that you get all the time?

Bruce: Here's the answer, Jim. Are you ready for the word? Nothing.

Jim: Nothing. All right. But since nothing's simply isn't enough to make life meaningful and fulfilling, what should retirees do?

Bruce: Something other than nothing.

Jim: Because nothing leads to where?

Bruce: Nowhere. Isn't that the way it works? But listen to this for just a minute. I think it's important. And we see in scripture where it says. Without, without Christ, I can do nothing. Now, just reverse that if I'm doing nothing that would suggest that my connectivity to Christ is marginal at best. And so when we think about retirement, what Christ has in mind for us, what God has in mind for us, not only to follow his principles in a universal way to love your neighbor and to spread the word, but to be able to bring your unique talents to needs that exist in the world and to be able to impact people's lives in, in, in each one of the different stages of retirement. And there are three of them to be able to do that. And so that idea of, of being satisfied with nothing leads to nowhere.

Jim: I mean, and look where it leads. I've lived in Florida for 20 years. I've lived in the retirement capital of the world and I see what happens when people live for nothing. They literally die. They have no purpose. Th they're bored. They move into neighborhoods where there's, you know, 55 pluses, no children allowed, no kids allowed. All right. They can only have little yepper dogs can't have big dogs, all kinds of rules, regulations.

You don't even get to mow your own cotton picking lawn or trim your own trees. You can't park outside. You can't wash your own car. I mean it's and they have no purpose. It's what they do. They watch TV all day long and they get bored to death. And that's not what God intended, is it Bruce?

Let's examine what happens in that kind of circumstance and lots of others is that. And because of longevity our world, if we allow it, our world continue to shrink and as our world continues to shrink, we focus on who ourselves. And as we focus on ourselves, that then becomes a downward spiral. Because there is no meaning and purpose.

There's only problems, pain and grouchiness. And so the critical element is to turn from things that look inward to activities that take us outward, where there are people. Now it's true that, you know, I was at a funeral on Saturday and I'm sure I'm going to a whole bunch more here in the next period of time.

So our world shrinks 'cause our friends die. That happens over a period of time. That's what's true. And so you need to be intentional about not replacing those friends, but finding new ones where in fact you're who you are, can be meaningful too and with them.

Bruce, when you see people pursue something and retirement pursue a life of adventure, whatever that adventure, just something more than nothing, use one word to describe their lives.

Bruce: Oh, fruitful.

Jim: I love it. Bruce, you're 81 years old. And you are the king of having purpose in your retirement years. I don't know anybody that has more purpose in the retirement years than you. Do ever think you'll learn to enjoy rest and relaxation and a little leisure here and there?

Well, one of the things I've learned is that I need, I need a little more sleep. So I go to bed a little bit earlier. And there is that there are some times when I think about the honey-dos around the house and I really need to get those done. And I say, yes, I do. But I think maybe tomorrow it will be okay if I really do it tomorrow.

So I give myself permission to be able to adapt and adjust. And, and to provide enough bandwidth so that in fact I'm healthy. I'm healthy in my relationships. I'm as healthy as I can be in my body. I'm healthy in my spiritual relationships. And so to give enough space to do that, and sometimes that means going on a cruise.

Sometimes that means like Judy and I are going to the Netherlands. 10 days on a special, very specialized tour. And we'll be exhausted when we're done, but it's going to be great to be able to make that change.

And that's, what's really been good for you though, is having Judy who is fully retired, quote unquote, right now, she's no longer working for a paycheck. She's very busy. I know, but she said honey I'd like to spend some time with you. Can we go do some fun things? And you've had to schedule in those fun things, so you don't get caught up in working and it's good to listen to your spouse.

Bruce: Absolutely. It's critical to listen and to intentionally say to yourself, you know, it's important that Judy and I spend time together. And so that I intentionally then, you know, it's important to her that I get home by six o'clock at night just left to me. It probably would never happen, but I've committed that it's important to her. It's important to our relationship. So I got to make sure that if I'm at the office and I'm out of here by five 30, so I can be home by 6.

And to be able to make commitments that will intentionally enhance in, in maintain your, your relationship. And so it's not something that just comes just because you woke up in the morning, that intentionality is really important.

Jim: Bruce, how can the Retirement Reformation help our listeners, our friends listening today, get them on a path towards a fruitful retirement?

Bruce: First of all to as long as they're listening, so they've got some interest in the subject. Secondly, take a book like yours or take a book like any one of the three books in the series that I've written or start with A Fruitful Retirement. Cause it will encourage you. It will encourage you. We'll give you some models that will give you some ideas about what to do.

So many people, they say, well, I'd like to do something more. I just don't know what to do. Well, let's find the beginnings of a path, my grandfather's words. And you've heard me use it before is once begun, is half done. And so let's agree that we are going to begin and then listening to the holy spirit, the opportunities that come. And understanding our own experience and what we're capable of doing to be able to begin to step into a new world,

Jim: A fruitful retirement, Bruce Bruinsma, great conversation today. Thanks for your book, a Fruitful Retirement. Listeners, you can get a copy on Amazon or on our website, RetirementReformation.org.

Thank you. You've been listening to, iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation, with your host, Jim Brangenberg. And of course the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation. So we can ultimately say iRetire4Him!

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him, with your host at, Jim and Martha Brangenberg and Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to. Serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience and combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you, the Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life.

Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation. So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot O R G.

4/11/22 - iRetire4Him Show 59: A Fruitful Retirement, Part 1

Intro: While retirement is generally seen as a time of relaxation and self focus, God calls us to love, serve and help others for a lifetime. He has been preparing us for this retirement season, literally our entire lives. In retirement, countless Christians enter a state of spiritual dormancy, not knowing how they are called to have an impact for God's kingdom.

The Retirement Reformation seeks to encourage and empower the 50 million Christians approaching or in retirement to embrace the. God has been preparing in them when the world says it's time to stop, you can begin to have your greatest impact. Welcome to iRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation, where our goal is to journey from retirement to reformation, so you can say, iRetire4Him.

Jim: Reaching out to the 50 million Christ followers in America who are approaching - are fast approaching retirement. We're so glad that you joined us today here on iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. I'm your host, Jim Brangenberg, along with the founder of the Retirement Reformation, Bruce Bruinsma, check us out online, please., Retirementreformation.org, retirementreformation.org. And of course on Facebook, Retirement Reformation, or you could download our app Retirement Reformation in the apple podcasts. You know, Christians are called to ministry for a lifetime. Impacting and changing lives is more than a priority it's God's mandate to each of us.

This mandate, the call in our lives has two parts. The common call for all believers to minister, while impacting others to help and change lives. Then there is our unique call, which is based on our unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities. But how does all that play out in our. Retirement is not only a reward for past service, but also a stepping stone, a launching pad for future ministry, future fully funded ministry.

Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, just released his latest book in the future funded ministry series. And it's called A Fruitful Retirement: the result of a future funded ministry plan. Bruce joins us today for part one of a four-part series, talking about how your retirement years can be a fruitful return. Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Yeah, it's good to be with you. And to be able to dig into this topic for our next four sessions and to be able to find some encouragement for our listeners that that they're at those years, that that can be really fruitful,

Jim: Bruce, right off the bat, in your book, you quote Jonathan Burton from MarketWatch, when he says retirement ain't all it's cracked up to be. Many pre-retirees do not fully comprehend how dramatically their lives will change. Bruce, what have you seen? Is that statement really true?

Bruce: That statement is, I don't know if it can be more than true, but that's even, it's definitely true. And the, the expectation that we have. That the transition from a career to that next stage is going to be one of peace, tranquility, leisure, fun, no pressure less decisions. And so on that it won't be complex. That could not be further than the truth. As a matter of fact, the 30 years, and we talk about retirement and as a 30 year period, I really believe is the most complex time in the life. But because of other related growth opportunities that we have, it can also be the best 30 years of our life.

Jim: Absolutely. I mean, if you look at your retirement years, which you haven't really started the retirement years yet, but for the last 16 years of your quote unquote qualified retirement. Yeah. I don't know that you could have been any busier and God's been doing amazing things in your life.

You know, Bruce, that just reminds me, as people, prep for and get ready to retire, you say that many are suffering from retirement jitters. What are retirement jitters and why?

Bruce: Well, we get the quote unquote jitters when we are unsure of what is ahead or where you're unsure of what it is that we're walking into?

And so you're going to go you have an invitation to go to someone's home. You haven't met them before. You're going to meet some friends there and you're standing, you're walking up to that front door and you're kind of the butterflies in your stomach are not organized into a flight pattern. And so the jitters, if you wish, or the butterflies, and uncertainty about what's next.

Jim: Bruce, with so much doom and gloom in the news. First of all, I don't know why people even turn on the news anymore, but with so much doom and gloom in the news and the financial markets going up and down like a rollercoaster at Busch gardens and with inflation now skyrocketing, is it possible to be at peace with our coming retirement?

Bruce: It certainly is. And it's all based upon: do you have, do you understand what's true? Basic number two, do you have a plan on how you're going to deal with what's true? And third, do you have a relationship with Jesus and someone to talk to and be able to plug into the power of the holy spirit? Because one thing we know and we can be guaranteed is that in all of our lives, there's going to be change.

And this transition from career or from one of the other stages in retirement to If you don't have a plan, if you aren't connected to Jesus and if you don't know what's true, then having the jitters would be the natural expectation. And so you deal with it in those ways. It mean it's always going to be fun now.

Doesn't mean it's always going to be clear now, doesn't mean that it's a, that there's not going to be some confusion or, or new and strange things that you're faced with but as in all of our life that way. And so for it not to be that way, it would be really weird and strange. And so to know what's true and that's part of the heart of the Retirement Reformation.

And part of the reason why I wrote the fruitful book, the fourth book in that series was to encourage people and to help them come to grips with what's true. And then to help them to make a plan and then to be able to step into it. Now you have to read the third: Charting Your Course to really lay out that plan in a, in a meaningful way.

But the being fruitful is what God, God calls us to be. And if I can just add one more is that, you know, our verse is: you did not - Jesus speaking - you did not choose me, but I chose you. And I prepared you to be fruitful and to bear fruit that will last. So I think that's a promise we can count on.

Jim: But so many people, as you just said, you know, you've been a financial planner, a financial advisor for decades and decades, and a lot of people have done a financial plan. Very few people have had the opportunity to do like a course, like charting your course, and actually plan how they'll spend their time in retirement. But for those that are, have planned their financial future, they're all of a sudden they're going, yeah, but I didn't plan on another, a whole bunch of high inflation years in here and skyrocketing housing costs and things like that.

Bruce, how will A Fruitful Retirement, your latest book - and by the way, it's a very good book. I read a ton of books for all the shows that we do, and I absolutely loved it. How will reading A Fruitful Retirement helped me get there to that place of peace and purposefulness in my retirement years ?

Bruce: Well, first of all, it will help you deal with what is true and everything starts with that. Number one, what is true? Secondly, what is your goal? And when we have a goal of, if our, if our understanding of what it's true, and the goal that we have is, is carrying out God's plan for my life in this stage, then as I go through that process of understanding what it is and carrying it, each day when I approach that day, I'm going to be in peace about it, regardless of the conflict or the, or the changes that come around.

Hey, we've got inflation going crazy right now. I paid $4 and 89 cents for gas yesterday and filled up my tank. I mean, it's just a bummer. You take a look at the cost of electricity, cost of just about everything. So what is true is that we're going to be faced with a series of inflationary activities that are going to reduce the amount, the buying power of the money that we have.

That's true. Once we understand that's true, then we can take a look and we can say, all right, how do we need to adjust as a result of that? I have a very good friend that just decided they were going to sell their house, go to their smaller home, spend the summer there. And at the end of the summer, they'd look up and say, okay, what's next in our step.

That's a step that they decided to take. And there, there can be everything from reducing the number of times that you take your clothes to the laundry. You know, most people are totally surprised how much they spend doing that. As a matter of fact, I just calculated the other day: we spend about 250 bucks a month taken clothes to the, to the cleaners. Well, I can, I know that I can impact that by changing some of my behaviors.

Jim: You could do your own laundry, I guess you could learn how to iron even, and starch your own shirts. We're talking to Bruce Bruinsma about his latest book A Fruitful Retirement. We're going to take a break, check us out online retirementreformation.org, retirementreformation.org. Stay tuned. And our second segment time was Cynthia Ruchti who wrote a book Spouse in the House. Well, what happened when her husband retired and was home all day long? We'll be right back.

Break: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement, head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement, Retirement Reformation.org/books. That's retirementreformation.org/books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him, the mouthpiece for the Retirement Reformation. As we do in every second segment of our show, we bring on somebody special to share a little bit of their story. And Bruce, it's my turn. I get to bring on the guest today. So you get to sit back and relax today. We're talking with Cynthia Ruchti. She is a - Cynthia, how many books have you written?

Cynthia Ruchti: I think it's 35, 36. Now, something like that.

Jim: And I've only read about half of those books, but one of the books that you've just recently released is Spouse in the House, and it's not a novel, I've read so many of your novels. This one is all about, well, I'm going to let you tell people. You and your friend, Becky Melby released this book together. You wrote it together because both of you are struggling with this new syndrome with your husband being home all the time. This is more of like a documentary of how you're dealing with it. What's the book all about? Tell, tell us about it.

Cynthia Ruchti: I love that you called into documentary. It's like, it's not a day in the life. It's like a life in the life and there's this period of time for, for a lot of us, which is when we come to the retirement age. But then the last couple of years it's happened to a wide segment of society where we find ourselves in tight spaces.

All together all the time, 24 7, it was originally spurred from the idea that not only were Becky and I dealing with that ourselves, but every time we would mention to, or overhear someone say he's home all the time, we would get the sea of nodding heads of women who understand. These are people they love. We love our husbands.

That's a given from the beginning and this isn't a book for marriages that are falling apart. That's another whole book. This is for marriages that are good, but all of a sudden, there's this tension because. He's home all the time. So the subtitle of the book Spouse in the House is: rearranging our attitudes to make room for one another.

Jim: Yeah. All right. So you're still working, you're still writing and honestly, people need to check you out on your own online. Do you have your own website? CynthiaRuchti.com? Okay. CynthiaRuchti.com, R U C H T I Cynthia Ruchti. You're still working, but wonder hubby got laid off and it turned into retirement that made you a member of the H H A T T club. And what does that stand for? And what's the struggle here?

Cynthia Ruchti: So he's home all the time is the hat club or the H H A T T. But we've switched that a little now, especially as Becky and I were writing this story. W H a T T, which is kind of what now what you do now, that this is the reality in our lives, because it's really we're home all the time. For me, I work from home. So even though I'm working and put in plenty of hours on what it is I do and love, now, my husband is home all the time. He does technically work a couple of days a week, but he has - they have a lot of Monday holidays, and he only works Mondays and Thursdays. So funny how many holidays fall on a Monday that he's home anyway those days, but the crisis comes - if you want to call it that - a lot of people realize that when you're expecting retirement to be this glorious blissful, we have all the time in the world now for one another, it's going to be just like when we were newlyweds.

We often hear, how do we prepare financially for retirement? We don't often hear how do we prepare our relationship for what's going to change? Even in our houses in retirement, we're bumping into each other. We're taking the last sandwich for our own lunch and it was supposed to be for supper going to be part of the supper meal, almost like having a bad college roommate sometime.

How do we navigate all that with a sense of humor, biblically, and then also in a way that is going to proactively make our relationships stronger instead of creating distance within that space of being home all the time?

Jim: The beauty of this is 20 years from now, we're going to be able to change this book and have a addition to she's home all the time, because there are a lot of guys working from home today, and we're gonna be able flip this on it because honestly, you know,I'm a guy. And I bet you're a little tough on wonder hubby. I thought it was tough. You know, I just thought you're a little tough on him.

Cynthia Ruchti: Then the book worked.

Jim: Yeah. Martha, she just, you know: what's the deal?? Okay. Is the solution that Bill just needed purpose in his life? Is that what was causing so much of the friction? So it hasn't helped that he gets out? I mean, tell us, I mean, being home all the time, what was driving you the most crazy?

Cynthia Ruchti: Okay. So our theory is that it happens all through marriage, but it's especially heightened in years of retirement. Few wives and husbands have exactly the same personality. If they do, not, not much of an interesting relationship. And so almost everybody who retires, there are differences in personality.

One wants quiet. One likes to have noise and activity around. One wants the grandchildren over every minute of every day. The other one enjoys them periodically. The one wants to be able to not have an agenda for their day. Bill is one of those people. I will ask him at breakfast. So what's on your, what's on the docket for you today? And I stopped asking the question because he never had an answer for me because he wanted to not have an assigned day. He wanted his retirement to be where he could decide as he goes along. And I'm a different kind of personality I thought yesterday about what was so exciting about today. And so we had to realize that what was different, where the tension was coming was because we're different human beings.

When God made us one flesh, he still gave us our own fingernails, our own hair follicles. Some of us. Yes.

Jim: Wow. And wow.

Cynthia Ruchti: I know, I see how I work that in. I didn't even plan that.

Jim: Yes, you did. You're such a cheese head. I'm throwing that right in. Right. That was just a mean, that was a mean anti Minnesota common right there. I just could feel it.

Cynthia Ruchti: There you go. But, but the joy of it is that it is, there is a, a natural opportunity for tension and there's a supernatural or godly opportunity for easing that tension.

Jim: Okay. It's been a couple of years though, since Bill got laid off and he's retired. Are things better? Have you guys found a rhythm?

Cynthia Ruchti: They were never awful. And that was the good thing

Jim: When I read this. I'm thinking you are getting really sick and tired of him being in the house...

Cynthia Ruchti: The joy of all of this is that there were some of those things that we just had to reintroduce the humor into the way we were looking at what was happening to us.

One real key element was that we felt that emotionally, we were tripping over each other. And, and oftentimes if a. Is dancing for instance, and they're stepping on each other's toes all the time that does not make for anything pretty. And it's going to be an unpleasant experience. So that can happen relationally and emotionally in a house too.

In our house, we had a very narrow walkway that we had lived with for decades in our home. There was a chimney in the middle of the house. The main walkway was 18 inches wide one day, rather than our colliding. Like we usually do. Yeah, my husband, who was used to saying, excuse me, added a little endearment and said, excuse me, my love. And that turned that pinch point into something that was precious to us, as opposed to being...

Jim: Just got a little R rated right here on iRetire4Him. Thank you, Cynthia, for that.

Cynthia Ruchti: My love? That's too much for you?

Jim: So I want you to speak, I want you to speak to the husbands who are finding themselves at home for the very first time on how they can take your book Spouse in the House, take this as a learning tool after they go get a copy. But speak to them. Speak a word of encouragement. Just a short word.

Cynthia Ruchti: It's not going to be automatic. If you expect that coming into retirement is going to all the little awkwardness is going to iron itself out automatically magically, that's not going to happen. We need to talk to one another. We need to realize that there are probably going to be pinch points. How are we going to deal with them? Whether that's financially or, what's our date night gonna look like now? Or when would you like to eat breakfast now that you have an option?

All of those things are going to have to be keeping that communication going, and then assuming for both men and women, that your partner isn't wrong, just different in the ways they want to maybe experience what the retirement years are like.

Jim: So then flip that on its head and speak to the ladies out there who are going through this H H A T T the hat club, they're just a new members into the hat club. They haven't had a chance to read Spouse in the House yet. Speak to those ladies.

Cynthia Ruchti: One of the things that made such a difference for me was coming to realize - I don't know how many years ago it was, but I had to come to realize that my husband wasn't just my husband and life mate, but he was my brother in Christ.

So everything in God's word that applies to relationships regarding kindness and courtesy and, and thinking the best of one another, all those things that they, God had put in his word already applied to this, applied to the marriage relationship. And forth. So for women, the, the encouragement would be, you think God has said anything about this subject?

Oh yes, he has. And so going back to that source of, we always go do, going back to his word is the place where we're going to find the tools we need. In addition to this book, in order to help navigate those waters and have it be the best it can be and, and really fulfilling years.

Jim: Spouse in the House is something everybody needs in their arsenal of books of looking at life has life changes as we enter our retirement year, Cynthia Ruchti, where's the best place for people to get a copy of your latest book Spouse in the House?

Cynthia Ruchti: Wherever books are sold, or they can also go to my website if they can't remember the exact lineup of letters for the word for the last name Ruchti, which is impossible .Cynthia Ruchti. They can also get to that same website through hemmed in hope.com. My tagline for this and marriage and everything in life is I can't unravel I'm hemmed in hope.

Jim: And we'll have a copy, a link to Cynthia's website right here in the show notes. Attached to the podcast. Spouse in the House. Get a copy. Cynthia Ruchti - thank you so much for being on iRetire4Him today.

Cynthia Ruchti: Thank you so much, Bruce and Jim.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iRetire4Him.

Bruce: Hey listeners, we would love for you to get a copy of Bruce's latest book, A Fruitful Retirement. Head out to retirementreformation.org/books. You will find all of the books in the future funded ministry series there, including A Fruitful Retirement. Retirementreformation.org/ Books. That's retirement, reformation.org forward slash books.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iRetire4Him. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Cynthia Ruchti about her book Spouse in the House.

Bruce, we're talking about your latest book A Fruitful Retirement. You know, you open up chapter two saying that people can be fully alive in the sixties, they're in their sixties and their seventies and their eighties, and even their nineties today, where just a century ago, the life expectancy was a mere 58 years old. How does this longevity revolution impact our ability to have A Fruitful Retirement?

Bruce: You know, if, if you just kind of think back of, of anything that you didn't know how to do. And then you met a friend and they knew how to do it. And they kind of mentored you in over a period of time. You became as skilled as they were in what it is that, that you were doing.

You, you learned it. And so the, the benefit, one of the benefits of longevity is that we have a time where we can learn how to live in these senior year. We can learn by the books. You can buy books I've written and others, you can learn by listening to our podcast and experiencing that you can observe what others do.

And so the longevity gives us an opportunity to learn and then to be able to apply those lessons in our lives. And if we learn and apply them and listen to what God is saying to us, in fact, we can have a joyful period. That is evidenced by the freedom that we have and what it in the, in what it is that we've learned in those prior years.

Jim: Yeah. It's funny. Bruce's a lot of, a lot of how we learn about life is from our parents, but most of us didn't have parents that lived to be... well, I did. I'm a little bit younger, but my parents didn't have parents that lived to be 60, 70, 80, 90 years old. And their parents didn't. So it's not like the people that are retired today, have a lot of people they can look to for what does it look like to live, to be 70, 80, 90, or even a hundred?

I mean, there's a huge growing wave of people over a hundred years old, Betty White, she lived to be 99 and you know, 10 months or something like that was, I mean, come on. I mean, imagine what she saw.

Bruce: So, you know, that's, that's the reason why there is the need for the Retirement Reformation and these dialogues that we are having together. And, and to be able to learn from each other, because we don't have a lot of models because there isn't a lot of experience. And when there isn't, then it makes the, the, those who have the experience and are able and willing to share it that much more valuable to be able to, as we talked about in the prior. So, to be able to understand what's coming and what's true.

Jim: Okay. So how does, knowing that we're going to live long lives in decades in our retirement - how does that impact our ability to make a difference and to live with purpose during our fully funded ministry, years of retirement? I think it, I think you say it best when you ask what are you gonna do with all those years?

Bruce: Those are the, that is the question in the, in the first division, in that, in the, in the answering that question comes from, are you going to continue to buy into what culture says retirement is, or are you going to buy into as best we can interpret what God intends for us and to be able to have an opportunity to really find meaning and purpose the difference between what culture says and what the Bible says? And what Retirement Reformation is, messaging is in fact, the difference between a meaning and purpose and leisure. And that's where the first decision gets made. Am I going to be dedicated to leisure? Am I going to be dedicated to meaning and purpose and have some leisure in the midst of it?

That's not unimportant. It's like taking a vacation. Is that important? Yeah. You bet. But finding meaning and purpose, which will bring you joy and freedom in all those different stages is that's that first decision about what are you going to follow is really critical.

Jim: What I love best in your book, as you did a great job, just finding lots of examples of, of people and you covered Randall Cunningham a football player, and you say Randall Cunningham is struggling and suffering from a disease we call unretirement. Actually I added that word. You didn't call it a disease, but you called it unretirement that he's had several bouts of unretirement, which I said, it's like a disease. Explain this to me. These bouts of unretirement.

Bruce: Well, we have a classic example, staying with a football area of, of Tom Brady who went through this whole big deal about retiring a few months ago. And now he is unretiring.

Jim: I hadn't heard that yet. I mean, it was, he was retiring from the Tampa bay Buccaneers. Did he go back? I hadn't heard that. Breaking news right here on iRetire4Him!

Bruce: All right. So, you know, one of the things that happens when we, when we learn something, is that when we learn it or discover it then, and we are taking steps that will be out of pattern with that understanding, sometimes we got to back up and rechange and go again, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I've got a couple of friends who in their retirement bought into the message that they wanted to find some meaning and purpose. It took some steps into some different areas, and finally they weren't the right ones. So they went back to the couch for a little while and they said, well, I think a better give it another go. And so they started down another direction, something happened and that didn't work out well. They went back to the couch and said, you know, I think I better give it another go. So perseverance is one of those keys that's important.

So they, then the third attempt, and in that third attempt, man, they found a thing that they're passionate about and that, you know, when their feet hit the floor in the morning, when the alarm clock goes off or they wake up that's what they're thinking about and they're ready to go. And so, but it, it takes some exploration, and it takes, perhaps some things that you're going to try and then back off from, or things you're going to try and call it failure if you wish, but, but it's not working out. And that's okay.

Jim: My mom was a teacher. In her late fifties after she retired, she went back and got her master's degree in Christian counseling and did Christian counseling for another 25 years and just loved it.

There's so many opportunities out there. I mean, it's just really important that we just tell everybody life is not over. When you retire, the, the horizons are unlimited where you can go, what you can do. So when people struggle with these bouts of unretirement, who do you think is living a more fruitful retirement, Randall Cunningham, or someone sitting at home watching movies, drinking, iced tea, and playing pickleball?

Bruce: Clearly, literally Randall Cunningham because he persevered that. I know that there is, you know, this calling now. It is even possible that just like in a, in a career, you don't stay necessarily with the same company for 30 years. You may, but you may have, you may change jobs every three, four or five years.

Well, why is it going to be any different in circumstances? Maybe the some difference, but why isn't that the same kind of an idea that during retirement? Sometimes I'm going to find something I'm passionate about it. I'm going to do it till the very end. Sometimes it's going to be for a period and then there's going to be another option. Give yourself the freedom to change, to make choices. To experiment.

Jim: Hmm. Great advice, Bruce. Where can people get a copy of your latest book, A Fruitful Retirement?

Bruce: Well, you can go to amazon.com and, and pick it up from Amazon. That's easy or you can go to our website and the website is retirementreformation.org. So there's a couple of places that you can get it. And hopefully it will be helpful to you, as I say, in the. You know, you might want to read the first three first, but if you start only with one, this is a good one to start with.

Jim: I would agree. They're all fantastic. And just a great layup for retirement, prepping for retirement or being in retirement or resetting in retirement, or unretiring in retirement. Bruce Bruinsma, thanks for being today with us on, iRetire4Him and for introducing your latest book A Fruitful Retirement.

Bruce: Well, I'm glad that we can be fruitful together.

Jim: Yeah. You've been listening to IRetire4Him. The mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation with your hosts, Jim Brangenberg and Retirement Reformations founder, Bruce Bruinsma. We're Christ followers, journeying from retirement to reformation, so we can ultimately say iRetire4Him,

Outro: Thanks for listening to iRetire4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And Retirement Reformation founder, Bruce Bruinsma. IRetire4Him is the mouthpiece of the Retirement Reformation. Most Christians tend to follow the world's pattern of rest and self pampering during retirement.

However, in your retirement, you can be focused on God's unique call to love, serve and help others. This can be your best season of life. If you take advantage of a life's worth of knowledge and experience. And combine it with a greater freedom of time and money and invest it all in the generations, both preceding and following you.

The Retirement Reformation is encouraging Christians to find and follow God's call in all seasons and aspects of life. Especially in retirement. Take time to sign the manifesto at retirementreformation.org and explore the wealth of resources available on our site. Join this movement of God and journey from retirement to reformation.

So you can say, iRetire4Him. Go to retirement, reformation dot O R G.