Ep 2132: The Great Commission - Making Disciples As You Go

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, 13 years of covering the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to release the testimonies of workplace believers who have learned to unleash their job related and social contributions for the flourishing of the world.

What can that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: So many of us have a misunderstanding about the Great Commission, that it says we need to go somewhere, but as I've studied and learned about following Jesus over the last 47 years, I now know that Jesus wasn't telling us to go.

He said, "as you go." As we're about our daily routine and work and we're supposed to be teaching others the things he taught us and is teaching us as you go, not making a choice or trying to determine if we are one of the many who are called to go, but recognizing that we are all called to "as you go." This may be a little confusing, but the reality is this: some people are called to preach and teach on Sunday, and some of us are called to go and teach others in other parts of the world, but every one of us is called to teach others about Jesus, as you go. This is no lesser calling. It is the calling.

The mission field is huge, and all of us are called into ministry as we go. What does that look like, this as we go thing? Victor Dawson wrote a book about his experience, if I could say this, "as we going" in life, and he is here to share about that, about his as we go experience and the amazing experience of how one day his mentee Brett became his mentor. Victor Dawson and Brett Emmeluth, welcome to iWork4Him.

Brett Emmeluth: Thank you.

Victor Dawson: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

Jim: All right, so I wanna start off, because you guys are both first timers on, iWork4Him. We always start off with the Jesus story. Victor, why did you become a follower of Jesus?

Victor Dawson: It happened when I was a freshman, 17 years old at Georgia Tech. I went to a couple of Campus Crusade for Christ meetings. Not sure who took me there. But I remember praying the prayer like it was yesterday. And went back to my hometown and was baptized at my now wife's church.

We were high school sweethearts at the time, and it just, I just felt like that was the thing I should be doing at that moment. I had grown up going to church, but didn't really have a serious relationship. And so it just felt right and but then it was 23 years later before I woke up to realize it was about a personal relationship with Jesus.

Jim: Oh, that was a big time difference.

Victor Dawson: Here's the thing, real quick. If somebody had come along and discipled me, I might not have spent that 23 years, but then I wouldn't have the story to tell.

Martha: All in God's timing.

Victor Dawson: That's right.

Jim: So Brent, what about you?

Brett Emmeluth: I actually grew up in Southern California and I did go to an Episcopalian church. So went to church three days a week, or chapel three days a week, for eight years. And that was just through school. My family, outside of school, we didn't, we went to church maybe twice a year. And so I was familiar with God. But I don't think that I really, at the tail end of that eight year period from first through eighth grade, my family went through some really difficult times and I drifted away from God at that time. My brother died and my parents got a divorce.

My mom moved away with my sister, and I went from a family of five to a family of two in about 13 months. And it was really tough. And so I drifted from God for a long time from that, not necessarily being in a situation where, I felt maybe a little angry with God, but also just like, you weren't there for me so I'm not sure if I need to go down this path any further.

So 22 years ago, that's when I really reconnected. I got affiliated with the men's group and then recommitted my life to Christ and then met Victor like a month later. Worked out perfect.

Martha: That is amazing. So we're gonna dig into that just a little bit more, but like Jim said, at the very beginning of the show, Victor, you wrote a book and it is entitled As You Go. Why did you write it and why the title?

Victor Dawson: I wrote it because God told me to, and that's quite a story because I had emergency open heart surgery. I found out that I had over 90% blockage of the left main artery called the widowmaker. Then I was ready to drop dead at any moment. My wife actually saved my life because I went in for a stress test and the cardiologist said it looked fine, looked as good as the one from two years ago, and she said, I don't care. You gotta look further. So they did a heart cath and found out that I was literally ready to drop dead at any moment.

So a week after I had the open heart surgery, to the hour, on a Monday morning, I went out on the back patio and had my quiet time. And I remember thinking, God, even though I was prepared to go home if that was his plan, but I remember thinking, if I'm still here, you must have something left for me to do, and it would be really cool to know what it is.

And only the second time in my life I heard his audible voice speak to me and he said, "I want you to write a book and call it As You Go. And you know those stories I've given you as you've traveled around the world sharing your faith and talking about me? That's what the book's about."

Jim: So many people, Victor, misunderstand that Great Commission. I grew up in a church thinking, man, if I don't go, I guess I'm just here to support those who do. And it wasn't until literally decades later that somebody said, it doesn't say "go" in the original Greek. It says "As you go," which made so much more sense to me and relieved a whole bunch of frustration I had lived with for decades.

So I love this and I loved your stories in there. We're only gonna focus on one of the stories today, but I love that perspective. What does it look like? What did it look like for you, Victor, to live a life from an as you go perspective?

Victor Dawson: I joined a ministry called CBMC, Christian Businessmen's Connection, actually now a little over 30 years ago. And the mission is evangelism and discipleship of business and professional people in the marketplace. And so I had already started to learn and found out before all this took place with the book. My lifetime purpose was to, as you go, or go and make disciples of all nations as an ambassador for Christ.

But I couldn't do that until I was in hospice care and sharing the gospel with the hospice nurse. And so I was beginning to do that more and more as I traveled and was in business and wherever I was, to share the gospel. And then when God told me and I didn't know the difference between go, I was always understanding, go and make disciples 'cause that's the way it's translated.

But then I realized in the Greek, it's actually means as you are going, as you're going along your way every day and everywhere, with your friends, your neighbors, your family, your coworkers, all these different people, you're to share about me. And actually the operative word in that verse is "make."

It's not "go," it's "make disciples." But you gotta go. It's hard to disciple a nonbeliever really. You got a whole different worldview. So you need to go and share the gospel. CH Henry is quoted as saying - American theologian - "the gospel is only good news if it gets there in time."

Jim: Wow. That's a good one. That's true. So true. " The gospel's only good news if it gets there in time." Wow. And you talk about that as we record this show. Literally had a conversation with somebody who's on their way out on Saturday, somebody that had lived a very hard life and felt like he was on his way out and he goes, I need to get right. And I said, yes you do. Let's just talk about Jesus right now. And we had a Jesus conversation. He goes, that's what I want. I wanna do that right now. And he prayed and got reconciled with God and he died this morning.

Victor Dawson: Wow. Oh wow.

Jim: We're talking 36 hours later and I just, and I kept thinking of this guy this morning.

Martha: But the gospel got there in time.

Jim: The gospel got there in time. But I kept thinking about this guy this morning running down the streets of heaven, 'cause he didn't walk any longer, and just running down the streets of heaven thinking, yes, that conversation on Saturday was just so crucial to this guy. Just incredible.

Victor Dawson: Good for you having that conversation.

Jim: No, just the ability to be friends with that guy so that we could have that conversation was powerful. If we're gonna live with that kind of perspective is important that we don't let things distract us and get off track like a problem on our computers, caused by a virus or another intruder.

SaferNet is who we depend on at iWork4Him and at home to protect all of our devices, our cell phones, our laptops, our tablets, everything. Go to SaferNet.com and let them know that iWork4Him sent you because you can get peace of mind and get back to your God-given purpose as you go. And let SaferNet focus on theirs so that you don't get distracted.

Martha: All right, so Brett, I wanna hear from you. What did you learn from Victor about living your life with this as you go way of thinking?

Brett Emmeluth: One of the things I got from Victor, one - I was at a difficult stage. I was a new believer and so trying to make sense of what's important, what's not important when it comes to really going down this path. And it was great to have Victor give me some focus, but one thing I really got from Victor too is that I don't need to be going up to people on the street and grabbing 'em by the collar and calling 'em a sinner and saying, you gotta be saved and just accosting them. It was more, Hey just raise the flag. You know what I'm saying? If you're in a conversation with someone.

I'm a financial advisor. I sometimes have some very in depth conversations with people. Sometimes I'll have a conversation with someone's crying in the call because of their situation. Or a husband might be sick or a wife might be sick or a relative and I feel as though God gives me the opportunity to just raise the flag. I don't need to save this person. I don't need to bring them to the prayer, but being a situation where just that's God's job to save people and it's my job just to raise that flag, make it aware, just just put the situation out there and let God take it from there. You know what I'm saying?

And it might be a situation where I raise the flag now, but that person doesn't have a another engaging conversation for another two or three years, and then maybe that gets 'em over the hump and then they start heading in the right direction again. So that was one thing I got from Victor. Just raise the flag and just let God take it from there.

Jim: You said, Brett, that you know you met Victor in a men's group.

Brett Emmeluth: Yeah.

Jim: How did this mentor mentee relationship come about?

Brett Emmeluth: We were actually met at a men's group. We got paired off together, started talking, and then, shortly thereafter that, Victor had approached me on doing this operation Timothy through the CBMC. And at first I had missed a meeting in between and I was like, what's that? And so we met for coffee and then it just went from there.

And being a new believer and just being in a difficult spot in my life at the time, I was grasping for straws and just grasping for air, and to have someone that to me, he seemed like a successful guy, he was giving me some attention. I could really use the help. I was floundering in my new faith and trying to find my way.

And it was really, it was a blessing from God to have Victor come into my life, and say, Hey, why don't we walk down this path together? And I was like, sure, not knowing what I was getting myself into.

Jim: But I love what you just said: walk down this path together, because Victor, that's what it's really all about, it's not about pounding information to people. Operation Timothy from CBMC is a powerful lesson plan. It's got, it's very logistical, it's strategic. But you invited Brett to live life alongside of you, Victor, didn't you?

Victor Dawson: Yes. It's not about trying to educate even though we get that at church. We get that in men's groups. We get that from reading the Bible, all of that head knowledge. But this is about living life together, doing life together, dealing with each other's struggles and sharing things that really, there's no other place to share. Especially men. Men will not share the deepest, darkest troubles and secrets and so forth until they have this personal connection and relationship with someone that they know that can do that with, and that won't judge them.

And we'll try to help along the way and pray for them and all that sort of thing. And one of the things you mentioned in the beginning, Jim, the number of people that are being discipled, as far as I can tell, and you may have better information, is about 1%. And I mean it's low, single digits of the number of people, believers that are being discipled. And I just can't believe that it, because a man, especially women too, but men especially don't share these kinds of feelings and thoughts and whatever. And they have feelings.

Jim: Men don't have feelings. We don't share.

Victor Dawson: That's true. I forgot about that.

Jim: Yeah. (laughing)

Martha: Okay, I'm just gonna set the record straight. You do have feelings. But a lot of times they don't want to either become vulnerable or they don't feel safe in doing that. So I just wanna ask a quick question. What does that look like in reality for you guys to walk life together, for you? And everybody, it could be different, but just for our listeners who are like, cannot even picture what this might look like, did you meet weekly for coffee? Did you have meals together? How did you facilitate this relationship?

Victor Dawson: In this case, Brett was working. I had flexibility with my schedule. I owned a company and could go pretty much according to whatever my schedule, but I would meet him at an Einstein bagel shop, coffee shop at six in the morning for an hour and a half because he had to go to work and I always went over near where his work was so that he could manage his time best.

And we basically met weekly except one of us might be traveling or something would come up or you might be sick or whatever. I guess for, I want to say about three years we met. Almost every week for that length of time. And then we started going to having lunch together and less frequent meetings.

Martha: But it was very intentional. And I think that's the thing that, it does take some effort, but, my goodness. Just getting a high level vision of this, I see the intentionality really paid off in your lives. That's great.

Jim: And 22 years you guys have been friends, Brett. How old were you when you first met Victor?

Brett Emmeluth: 34. Just turned 34.

Jim: All right. So at 34. Had you ever had a chronologically superior man pour into your life? Had you ever had anybody mentor and disciple you before?

Brett Emmeluth: No.

Jim: And how desperate were you to have that relationship?

Brett Emmeluth: I was probably more desperate than I realized. Once I realized what we were doing and how helpful it was, I realized it squarely that Victor was sent by God to help me. No doubt.

Jim: Did he have to bring the green treated 2x4 like he would in my life? 'Cause with me, I mean, he is like smack upside the head. (chuckles) Discipleship and mentoring looks different for everybody. But God brought somebody perfect for your life as a 34-year-old young man.

Brett Emmeluth: Yeah.

Jim: To just speak truth into you. Victor, let's talk about that day that the mentor became the mentee, and the mentee became the mentor.

Victor Dawson: Okay, so one of the things that, as Brett was talking about, the initial time that we spent together, he was going through a really tough time and one of the things I kept telling him, or a couple things, was that God loves you more than you can imagine, and God has a plan and a purpose for your life, and God wants you to trust him to take care of you. Over and over again.

We kept talking about that and it was a few years later, after we had stopped meeting on a weekly basis, that we had lunch together. And he shared with me something that was rather shocking to me, but looking back, I could understand it. He was totally stressed out, in the bunker dodging bullets kind of thing. And he shared with me that, because as a new financial planner, he's only got about a 10% chance of making it through the first year and he changed careers. And so he was worried that he was about to let his entire family down.

And so he shared with me that he had considered seriously taking one for the team, and he'd figure out a way to end his life to get the insurance for the family. And I was really like, wow, that's incredible. But then he said to me, I think you saved my life, because if you and I had not been meeting, I probably would've gone through with this. Wow. I just couldn't believe how intense. I could sense it at the time, but I had no clue that it was that serious.

So I felt great that God had orchestrated this situation to happen. Fast forward a couple more years, and one Thursday night I was in a lot of tense business situations and all, and I had the worst fight that my wife and I can ever remember. And I spent the night on the sofa in tears and upset.

And when the alarm went off at five o'clock or 5:30, I woke up and remembered that I had a serious commitment 'cause I was, that morning I was on the board of a children's charity and we were having our annual golf fundraising event, and I'd already paid my money and I had invited some people to come and so I had to drag myself out of bed and get to this outing.

I'm driving there and the phone rings and it's Brett. He generally never calls me. I'm usually calling him. He's so busy and all. So that was surprising. And he said to me, how you doing? I said, I'm not doing so good this morning. And he said, let's get together. And I said I can't do that. I'm on my way to this golf event. And he said when will you be through? And I said, not till probably two o'clock. And he said I'll come out there and meet you at the Starbucks.

See, because of his work schedule, I always went to his, near his office. Now he's calling me and he's insisting that he come and he said, God just, I had the sense God wanted me to call you this morning. So I got through this golf tournament and all the other parts of the lunch and everything else totally exhausted, totally wiped out, and honestly, wasn't sure if I was gonna go home that day too. I had entertained some thoughts and it probably wasn't as serious as Brett had, but I was in a really bad place.

So I went to meet with him and got a big hug and we sat down and I explained to him where I was and what was going on, and he said the strangest thing to me, he said. You need to remember that God loves you more than you can imagine, and God has a plan and a purpose for your life, and God wants you to trust him to take care of you.

And I thought for a minute, and I said to him, who in the world told you that crap? (laughter) He said, you did. I knew it, of course. I had told him a hundred times. But I needed to hear it that day. And it was so refreshing, so impactful to have my Timothy, who was much younger than me, and we had spent doing life together, teaching me maybe the most important thing I felt like I had been teaching him. And so it was just absolutely incredible.

Martha: How very powerful. Brett, I would love to hear from you as you spent all of those years walking alongside life with Victor, did you ever anticipate that God would use you to be an asset for him in a time like that?

Brett Emmeluth: No. And just when I looked at Victor, I figured, oh no, he has all the answers. He knows what's going on. You know what I'm saying? And, if you got a question, something spiritual or something he'll be like, oh, go look up this Bible verse or this, and he seemed to be just a plethora of information. And so there's nothing really that I can offer him. It's just a matter of just absorbing as much as I can for as long as he is in my life.

Martha: How powerful. I don't wanna miss the fact that, Brett, you were very obedient to God's prompting that day, and I want our listeners to hear that and be encouraged by that.

There is nothing harder than being on the other side of that prompt and having not walked through it. So I compliment you for that obedience because if that especially wasn't your relationship, right? You had this great relationship, but Victor was always checking in on you and going by your schedule, but you took the time to reach out when you felt prompted.

And that was a very powerful day in Victor's Life and God used you as a result of that. And I know that each and every one of us have those same opportunities and experiences if we will walk in that obedience and listen to his prompting. That alone is a powerful, and it goes back to the as you go. As you're going about your life and God prompts you to do something, that's the activity, and as we talk about that, I just wanna talk a minute, as we look ahead to 2026 and all that God has in store for each one of us, I hope that all of you will consider prayerfully what you might add to your calendar to help you grow in connecting your faith and your work and surrounding yourself with others that are doing exactly the same thing.

Whether you find a local group like CBMC that we were just talking about or involved in something nationally, like the US Christian Chamber of Commerce, their Spiritual World Citizens Conference for 2026 in Orlando in April, or the National Faith and Work Summit in Cincinnati this June, there is something out there that can help catapult each and every one of our years. So check out our events page for all the details, go to iWork4Him.com/events.

Jim: So Brett, let's close this out by talking about the value of a mentor. How has having a mentor impacted your life?

Brett Emmeluth: Oh man. One, it kept me from making some really bad decisions. But also just being an example for me, seeing Victor go through some difficult times and then, realizing, hey, this, this is not the end of the world here. And, I think it's, was it Romans 5:3: " rejoice in our sufferings. 'cause sufferings produce perseverance. Perseverance produces character, and character produces hope." And that was something that Victor said to me for a long time.

And when you're going through a hard time, you're like yeah, I get it. I get it. Okay. But once you really think about that, and then you go through the process and that, that refining process, and you get to the other side. Ah, I can't see the whole picture, but I can see that. I did learn a lot and I did create some perseverance and build some character, and I think that's just gonna allow me to then pass it on to people in my life.

There's already a mentee that I've been engaged in. He doesn't quite know what's going on yet. He's a non-believer, but I gotta tread carefully and everything's lining up. He just doesn't know it yet.

Martha: Awesome.

Jim: Love that.

Martha: Victor, for you, any final thoughts you wanna tell our listeners?

Victor Dawson: There's two things, if I can do it quickly enough. One is your conversation earlier about the Great Commission. I found out that only about 3%, maybe less than 3% of believers are sharing their faith at all. But that was a command that Jesus gave all of us. And the problem is most people are scared to death to share their faith because they're gonna be rejected and all this sort of stuff. And in fact, it can be just fun and easy and wonderful to do that if you just learn a little bit about how to do it.

And I've actually put together a course now. We haven't launched it yet, but a six week small group type curriculum to teach people what's in the book, 'cause 99.9% of the people that read the book may be encouraged, but they're still not gonna know how to go do it. And so it involves some practice and some role playing and some teaching and various things like that.

Jim: But it is true. We need to get comfortable sharing what God's done in our lives.

Victor Dawson: Absolutely.

Jim: And once we're used to sharing that, the gospel message comes out easily once we talk about the amazing work that's happened in us already. Victor, it sounds like you have one more thought.

Victor Dawson: There's a point that I've ran across that I included in the book called My Friend by Chris Wilder, and it basically says, Hey, you've been my one of my best friends all this time. And it is written from the person who's actually died, the perspective of, "I just died" and why didn't you tell me about all this? Basically. I thought you were my friend, and here it is, now it's too late.

And so part of my message is, your friends and your family - okay, it is one thing to be on a train or on a plane or somewhere and start a conversation with a stranger or a neighbor or something. But what about your friends and family? Do you care enough about them? Do you want them to be in heaven with you? Of course you do. When are they gonna die? You don't know. When are you gonna die? You don't know.

Now you can't save 'em, but you ought to be doing everything you can to share what you can and create those opportunities. And many times I've just said, look, the reason I'm talking to you about this is because I love you enough and I want you to be in heaven with me.

Jim: That's so true. Victor Dawson and Brett Emmeluth, thank you guys for joining us today on iWork4Him, for sharing a little bit of your story and for inspiring everybody to "as you go" and to get a mentor too. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.

Victor Dawson: Thank you, Jim and Martha.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, and our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.