9/17/25 - 2112: From Censorship to Calling - The Power of a "Default Yes"

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Our mission is to inspire every workplace believer to recognize their workplace as their ministry place, where they work with God every day. What can that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: So where do you go to buy a book? A download, an audio book, or find the latest, greatest podcast like iWork4Him? Amazon, right? Does Amazon care about your faith in Jesus? Nope. But if they can make money on it, who cares?

They'll sell your faith driven book right next to the pornography section. It is what it is, but wait, there is now an alternative that's viable, proven, successful, and designed for you as a Jesus follower to find all the resources you need for supporting your walk with Jesus, and today we're gonna tell you all about it.

Claton Butcher is here today to present CrossCurrent Digital. This platform has been around for a while, but only this April did I find out about it. I'm so excited for you to hear about a platform where you can get everything you need from Christian media and have it to be sold from a platform where Jesus is glorified and the owner loves Jesus too. Claton Butcher, welcome to iWork4Him.

Claton Butcher: Thank you. It's good to be here.

Jim: All right, so Claton, before we start talking about CrossCurrent Digital, our listeners wanna know your Jesus story. So how, when, and why did you become a follower of Jesus?

Claton Butcher: That goes way back. So I accepted Christ at a very young age. I don't know exactly, it was probably five or six years old. And it's a boring story. We were in the car and I started asking my dad, who was a pastor, questions about how you became a Christian and accepted Christ in the car, in the backseat of the car as my dad was driving down the road. So in that sense it's boring, but obviously it's the most important thing.

Christ is the most important thing in my life and life of my family. And so thankfully I've been blessed to to have walked with Christ my whole life, essentially, that I can remember.

Jim: That's exciting.

Martha: And I just know that there are listeners listening that may wish that they had the boring story that you had. So do not ever discount that, because I do know that the value of what it may have saved you from by meeting Jesus at such an early age. So Claton, fast forward. I don't know much about your career history. Have you always been in the Christian media space?

Claton Butcher: No, I was a worship leader. I graduated with a music degree from Oklahoma Wesleyan University close to 25 years ago now. And so I did that for about 15 years, most of it, bi-vocational. So I was working in retail supplements as well for about eight years, was senior training manager.

Worked up to that there, and so trained managers and all that and got out of that. And when, interesting story that we don't have time to get into because the more important story, if we have time, is how CrossCurrent started. But started getting to the audio books as an audiobook narrator. And at that point, started doing that. Then God said to start a publishing company. So okay, I don't know how to do that, but you say, so I'm gonna do it, but how?

And I described that as my Moses moment. When God said, what's in your hand? I'm like I have $400. That's not the cheapest part for one book. How can I start a publishing company with that? But I had some connections with a Christian publisher and from other Christian narrators from the networking that I had been doing as a narrator. And out of that Two Words publishing was born. We've published about 150 books through nine years now. I think we're in our ninth. It was 2016.

So whatever that math, however that works. (chuckles) And so that then... I don't know if you want me to go then into the CrossCurrent story...

Jim: So how did you get from publishing books to the idea of the CrossCurrent digital platform that you've developed today?

Claton Butcher: It was not my idea. I never would've done this if it was up to me. So we had Two Words Publishing. I also started Black Hills Audio Books, which is our general market brand because there were some books that were not Christian books that I still wanted to publish and actually a book on China before the alarm bells were ringing elsewhere.

And so I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna do another company with this. So Black Hills audiobooks is our general market brand. I heard about a book through I think it was through Colson Center that was not released yet, a book called When Harry Became Sally by Ryan Anderson. I don't know if you heard about that a number of years ago now, but it was a book that I was like, I never want to have a conversation about this in my life, but I think it's important, and so I think we need to be a part of it.

So we got the audio rights to that book and four and a half years ago almost to the day now, just looking at the date down here, it's this week will be four and a half years exactly when Amazon censored that audiobook. So they pulled it completely from Audible, from Kindle, from every new and used seller and of the print version, as if the book no longer existed from all of their different entities.

And it just happened to be coincidentally, I'm sure, two days before the awfully named Equality Act was going to be argued on the floor of the US House. And so our book, which was the most comprehensive and compassionate critique of the deceptive and damaging trans agenda got swept under the rug so that it could not be used as ammunition against what they were trying to push through.

Jim: Wow. And so how'd that end up? How'd that end up? You're just bringing truth out there. Is it out there now? Can you get it on Amazon today?

Claton Butcher: There's more, there's a whole lot more to that story. Do you want it?

 (chuckles)

Martha: It's interesting. This is the story though, that birthed CrossCurrent, right?

Claton Butcher: It is, yeah. So it is the story behind CrossCurrent. And I'll try to keep it short. Within two weeks of the release of that book, or excuse me, the censorship of that book, we had released other books, Tyranny of Big Tech by Senator Josh Hawley and Dictatorship of Woke Capital by Stephen Soko.

Jim: I was gonna say Josh Hawley, great senator.

Martha: We live in Missouri. Great senator of Missouri. That's right. We're grateful.

Claton Butcher: Yes. I got to meet him by Zoom. He recorded the forward for us. But we had somebody else do the book. Anyway, so we had two books that talked about what they could do if they wanted to, that they just did. And Amazon knows that I also own the other publishing company and we talk about biblical identity there in a number of books. It looked like everything could go at a moment's notice. We were fully self-employed for a few years by that point m had stepped back from the music, worship leading at the church, and to devote the ministry specifically to the two things, to the publishing.

And then also part of this is we were host families for Safe Families for Children, which has been administered in South Dakota through Bethany Christian Services. Within a few days of that book being censored, they both changed their statement of faith in order to not lose federal funding on that same issue, but still calling themselves Christian. So we had to remove ourselves from that ministry as well. So we lost, we'd had a dozen babies over four years with that in our home to keep 'em out of foster care, essentially, including four sets of twins. But so we lost that. It looked like we could lose everything financially.

And then we got a phone call from a narrator that says have you seen what's going on with you and with the book that you did? No, I have no idea what you're talking about. And apparently there is, was, and at least to some extent to this day, is a blacklist campaign against narrators that had worked for us, that had worked with us, against myself as a narrator, and threats against our family from that audiobook community.

And so all of that, within about a week.

Jim: Wow. All in the name of inclusion, as long as you agree with them. Not that we're gonna go political today, but so the Lord just shut doors and he said, now are you gonna listen to me and do what I told you to do? I'm guessing that he'd already prepped you and said, I got a platform idea for you.

No? Tell us. Tell us that story. Where did it come from?

Claton Butcher: Okay, so there's a whole question about God's sovereignty that we don't necessarily need to get into here but I think God allowed it, not that he caused it, but allowed it to start things in motion.

So about a month later, there had been - no, we never, ever would've come up with this idea. And even if I had, I would've been too afraid to do anything about it. It was very clear after, in another conversation with an author that very clearly God said, he said, my book is gonna be censored too, because it's about biblical identity.

And that was the point that God said, okay, now build this and laid it out almost word for word to build a Christian conservative digital book sales platform so that when this happens to other books, whether it's Bibles or anything else that talks about biblical identity that goes against the culture, that this will be still available or already available because I don't know if your listeners know this, but depending on the numbers that I've seen, it's between 63 and 83% of all book sales in the US go through Amazon in one form or another. And that is not different in the Christian and conservative spaces.

So Christian publishers are largely funded in that sense as far as where the sales come from by Amazon. And so that is a huge problem that very few people at the time had recognized. More are recognizing it now, but we still need others to get on board, but that was where the idea came from.

Martha: Huge problem is that you're allowing somebody to distribute your information that may choose to no longer allow it to be distributed. Is that what you're saying is the problem?

Claton Butcher: That's part of it, yes. But there's also the whole funding aspect. The platform takes a large percentage in audio books. It's the vast majority of the percentage of the revenue. And so when that platform funds things that are anti-biblical, then that's an issue.

It's not top of mind for a lot of people, a lot of Christians, but because Amazon is so easy, it's you get everything from Amazon and can get everything except for When Harry Became Sally for four years. And so to finish answering your question, Jim you can get it now on Amazon, on Audible because when Trump came into office again and did the executive orders where companies would need to acknowledge biological reality if they were gonna do business, the author Ryan Anderson tweeted saying, Hey, Amazon, does this mean you're gonna sell my book again? The incoming FTC Chair, Federal Trade Commission Chair quote tweets him and says, Amazon, I'd like to know the answer to this.

And voila within a few days, so that they wouldn't lose billions of dollars in DOD contracts, they put the book back up and so now you can get it. But for four years it was as if the book never existed on Amazon.

Jim: So if you're listening today and you wanna see your business or your ministry protected and be a part of a whole bunch of people that support you- Claton has struggled. He felt like he was on his own, like there was no place to go to have fellowship in this whole area when he was being persecuted. The US Christian Chamber, it can be there for you today.

Check out the US Christian Chamber because they help Christian business owners grow their business and impact through expert resources, powerful collaborations, and a national directory for even greater exposure. Grow your business at uschristianchamber.com. And now you can gather with other members at the US Christian Chamber Expo in April of 2026, that Martha and I will be MCing that event. Visit Swc2026.com to learn more and use code iWork4Him when you register.

Alright. Claton, tell us about the platform. Yes. You should become a member of the US Christian Chamber, of course.

Claton Butcher: I already am.

Jim: That's fantastic. I wonder where that idea came from. That's unbelievable. All right. So tell us about the platform. What kind of media's available. Explain it to us.

Claton Butcher: Sure. Basically coming from the audiobook space, that's where obviously what we have and that's the biggest part of it. But we also have eBooks and podcasts as well, so audiobooks, eBooks, podcasts, and the biggest differentiator, aside from ownership and supporting biblical values is our curation. So we curate everything so that nothing goes against biblical values.

The intent is so that nothing will lead you away from your faith or confuse children because there are four or five, 6,000 books that are targeted for kids as, as low as preschoolers with the woke agendas, which include the trans and all of that, that strangely enough the Audio Publishers Association, the American Library Association, the Public Library Association and all of these different publishers weekly and all the different, everything in publishing outside of our Christian circles are pushing this as much or more than anywhere else in the world, essentially. And so publishing is, in that sense, on the front lines of this battle.

Martha: So tell our listeners how it works. You have a membership basis. Just explain the layout of the platform so they understand why they would want to participate in this as the place for them to get their resources.

Claton Butcher: So we have over 16,000 books and the membership is $15 a month for four books. You get to keep one. That's part of our DNA because of the censorship. We wanna make sure that you will have access to that book later, and then you can borrow three more. And those are 30 day borrows.

So there's again, over 16,000 books total. The borrow catalog is a little bit smaller. It's 6,000. We should be at 20,000 and 10,000 very soon on those. So a really good selection of books. And there's also the family plan, so you double that. So you get eight books, two to keep, six to borrow for $25.

And then we also recently rolled out our group subscriptions. And so if you're part of an organization or a church or your business, as business owners, if you wanna be able to provide a biblical resource to your employees, you as a business or as a church can do the group subscription and it's- you may be familiar with Right Now Media. Think of it as Right Now Media for books at a lot lower price.

We go by family group and not by attendee. I'm not a hundred percent sure exactly how the Right Now at Work does that.

Jim: But let's talk about those titles because I'm interested in the titles because this show is all about the connection of faith and work. So of those 16,000 and 5,000 or 6,000, all those numbers you just threw out at me, how many of those titles have to do with what we talk about? How many of them are helping you connect your faith in your work, realizing the significance of your work? How many of those are workplace titles?

Claton Butcher: Yeah, that is a great question that I should have prepped.

 (laughter)

Martha: That's okay.

Claton Butcher: So I'm on the website right now and I'm typing in business.

Jim: So not just business, I mean 'cause it's not just about business, it's people learning to live out their faith and work. I know you've got a couple of great titles that you're gonna be adding shortly, right?

Martha: You mean like iWork4Him? You're leading to the law, right? Yeah, iRetire4Him.

Jim: sheWorks4Him. That's right. (laughter)

Martha: Yes. So that's right. So we are working with you on those, but go ahead.

Claton Butcher: Sorry. So actually we are bringing in, a publisher contract is done. It is just a matter of actually getting the files. So that's where it's gonna take us to 20,000 and then 10,000 on the borrows 'cause they're gonna have all of that under that and there's going to be a ton of business books in that. So I'm excited to be able to get those as a Christian publisher that mostly focuses on business stuff and general marketplace, but also has a number of Christian titles too.

Jim: So is that a good lead? Is that a good lead for you? There's a lot of Christian publishers out there, some small, some big. Are those good leads for you?

Claton Butcher: They are, yeah, definitely. Now, again there are some, we still curate Christian books.

Martha: So you're reading all these books. You must have quite a team that's curating them.

Jim: We've had people curating for about four years now.

Martha: Wow.

Jim: Knowing that this was coming and that we would need to be able to do it quickly when it came. But it's been a long road to get to where we are. I don't know if you know this, but tech companies take a lot of money for some reason.

And we expected to be able to get investment and that really hasn't happened. So we have had to bootstrap this entire thing for a long time. One of the big pieces we don't have is the digital rights. So basically the anti-piracy stuff. And so that keeps us from getting another 40, 50,000 books like this, because those publishers are like let's wait until you have that. So that is a challenge that we are hoping that we can do soon.

Martha: A lot of people that we've interviewed over the years, what we have seen is people will say, when they learn about you, they're like, wow. It's become an instant success, but it's taken 10 years to become that instant success or however many years it might have been. But we know that on the journey God is writing your story and we are just excited to know about it and that's why we love sharing this with our audience.

And one of the things that we know for sure is that digital products take electronic devices in order to enjoy them, right? And if we don't protect those devices, we can't enjoy what we are listening to. At iWork4Him and in our home, our computers and all of our devices are at risk of being compromised by digital desperados.

So we trust SaferNet to protect all of our devices. Their internet controls, their VPN, their virus protection, their dashboard, are all created to help keep the bad guys out so we can keep everything running smoothly. And I think this is an incredible thing to be aware of at safernet.com because we're talking about digital stuff today, and so it's front of mind. So go to Safernet.com and tell them iWork4Him sent you.

Jim: All right, so this has been a long project where you faced a lot of obstacles, including fighting monsters on earth here. Did you ever wanna give up?

Claton Butcher: Yes and no. God has not released us from this and both my wife and I are firmly having again, theological stuff, but having a sanctifying experience a long time ago, which I describe as basically a default yes to God, whatever he wants me to do, I'm gonna do. And so once we knew that it was what God had clearly called us to, there's no sense of stopping. There may be times where I wish he would say, okay, enough's enough. Now you can do something else. (chuckles)

But no, not really. But in many ways it would be so much easier if God said, okay, you've followed me and done everything I asked of you. Now you can step over here and give it up, but there has been no sense of that. And so until God says that, we continue and if we have to end up selling our house and moving and living in an RV, that is on the table because we will do whatever God wants us to do to follow his leading to do what he wants us to do.

Martha: Yeah. And that's so powerful because I think we have a lot of listeners right now that maybe find themselves in a similar situation. It may look different, but they've been on a journey of being obedient, but it's not easy. The trials, the things that you run up against, the financial requirements, the getting censored, all of the different things that you've endured, but you know that you're doing it because God called you to do it.

And so I just wanna encourage our listeners that if you are in that similar position, I just love what you just said. It's like a default yes. Lord, I'm gonna trust you and I'm gonna say yes because you've asked me to do this. And until God tells you differently, keep walking it out. We are grateful that you're bringing this resource to people and making it available, and I just pray that even today some people will hear about it and want to become subscribers, not only because of the great resources that they know they're gonna find there, but also to help in this project of keeping it moving forward so that you can continue to gain more and more access to more and more resources that can help every one of your members along the way.

So we will make sure all of the links are in the show notes for people so that they can go out, check it out, become a subscriber, get some resources, do all the things because that is what it's all about. But I love the whole conversation around having the default yes for God. And I'm sure that will be an encouragement to many people that are listening today.

Jim: Claton, I would tell you that you're gonna know when you succeed when somebody starts calling and say, Hey, we'd like to buy out your platform. They're not gonna be from that other big platform. They're gonna be from some other small platform, but maybe that big platform will own them, and it's gonna be a side job. Don't become, as Tucker became in the car industry, don't become the tucker of the audio industry, the audio book industry.

Be very careful who buys you up because they bought out Tucker and for 40 years all the cool stuff he did sat on the wayside. They didn't have to use it 'cause they bought him out and silenced all that really cool stuff. That's what they're gonna wanna do to you. So be aware of sheep and wolf's clothing. No. Wolf in sheep's clothing. That's what it's gonna be.

Claton Butcher: Yes, that's something that I think is a huge issue. And so that's, that will never happen. We see no exit plan for this. Unless God specifically changes what he's telling us and says, yes, okay, you may do this. But I think that's part of the reason that we haven't gotten a lot of backing is because we have no exit plan. There's not a 1530 multiple that you're gonna get. And because we're not selling, unless again, God specifically leads that way, but it is a huge issue. I've seen it with streaming services, with other christian publishers that have done that. So many of them now are owned by the Thomas Zondervan or Harper Collins Christian. Even Christian Book is no longer Christian owned.

Jim: I heard that. So let me ask you a couple questions before we go 'cause we gotta wrap up. If somebody's listening today and they've got an audio book that's listed on that other place, and they've got an audio book, or they've got a digital book, or they've got a phenomenal Christ-centered podcast, how do they get ahold of you in order to say, I'd like to move my stuff to your platform, or at least have it in both places at first - how do they do that?

Claton Butcher: So email info@CrossCurrentdigital.com. We also have a form on our website so cross digital com / submissions.

Martha: Got it. And I'll put that in the show notes.

Claton Butcher: And so that that helps us know what your book is about and then know whether it would fall under our guidelines.

Jim: And if it's a publisher, we got Christian publishers that send us leads all the time for interviews. Maybe one of them is listening to the show today and they're like, you mean I can actually make money if I put my audio books on CrossCurrent Digital? And you're saying yes.

Claton Butcher: For audio books, you'll double, most likely double.

Jim: What about for digital? Too much to explain today. The bottom line is there's an opportunity here.

Claton Butcher: And we pay better than anybody else, and so know that.

Jim: There you go. Claton Butcher with CrossCurrent digital.com. Thanks for being on iWork4Him today.

Claton Butcher: Thanks for having me.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.