10/1/25 - 2114: Bold Faith in a Hostile Culture

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to inspire every workplace believer to recognize their workplace as their ministry place where they work with God every day. What can that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Your faith is under attack. Everywhere you go, the biblical ideals you hold firm to are ridiculed as out of date and old fashioned and definitely not inclusive. In the past 20 years, the government of the United States has ruled against you. State laws have been passed that prohibit the free exercise of faith on sidewalks. You've been told you must comply or you'll be destroyed, deplatformed, silenced or canceled.

So where do you turn when the government you elected turns against you? For decades, the National Center for Life and Liberty has been defending churches and Christian ministries, caught off guard by lawsuits, government overreach, and unexpected legal issues. David Gibbs III has been on this show many times, but in the last four years, national Center for Life and Liberty has been so swamped with legal challenges on behalf of many believers across the country, we've just said we're not gonna bother David 'cause he's just been so busy being in front of the Supreme Court and all these other things.

We have missed David's incredible wisdom and pointed humor. So David is back with us today to share how God's been working and what you should be looking for and preparing against. David Gibbs, welcome back to iWork4Him.

David Gibbs: I am delighted to be with you, Jim, and before we went on the air, we were talking about, you're a pen and paper guy, so you know, back when payphones and dinosaurs roamed the earth (laughter) and so you're gonna do it the traditional way. You're gonna hold firm. But we will remind everybody, God gave us a book, not a video, so you know, you're probably in sync with how values get handed out.

Jim: That's right. And it started with rock and chisels, so let's just, at least I'm not carrying a rock and chisels.

David Gibbs: We don't know that. We hear pen and paper, but we don't know that.

Jim: I just showed it on YouTube. (laughter) On YouTube you could see the pen and the paper right in front of me. David, last time you were on the show was August of 2021. How would you describe these last four years in light of the calling on your life?

David Gibbs: Busy, and incredible, in terms of what all has happened. You think about the last four years. We have gone through massive changes in the world. We use a word like COVID and people go, oh yeah, I remember that. That was a little while ago. And the reaction of our culture and our government and what that did to the legal system, kinda wildly. Courts backlogged.

So today as we look at like disappointments, I mean trying to get your case to court, trying to get judges, everybody was working at home and criminals go to the top of the pile. So if you're not charged with a crime, getting your case in court can be difficult. Lawyers all went home for a while and a lot of 'em figured out they want to get paid more and work less. And so all of a sudden in the church world, where churches don't have necessarily unlimited resources like a big corporation and don't have the ability, and so we have been unbelievably busy.

Now, on a positive side, there's afternoons where I sit, I am here with you and I'm in court in 3, 4, 5 different states and never leave my office. The Zoom world has really changed how the legal system works and the process and so I think as people look at that, they think of a justice system. But the reality is try to get your case to court is expensive and time consuming. And then what is also tragic is you can go from judge to judge. You wake up one day and you know what rights you may have. This judge says yes, and then you go to another court or another even judge in the same area and they say no.

And I don't think people understand just how our system is so dependent on the men and women that have the ultimate voice of authority and how that's done.

Martha: Wow. It's amazing when you think back to, I think of when you said, thinking back to COVID and like all the things that had changed, we got to the point where we didn't even say that word. We would say "in this time that we're in." We all know what that means, right? This unfamiliar and uncertain time that we've all experienced and what has happened in it.

I am a cup full person. But I wanna start with, what are some of the low lights? When you sit around the dinner table, you always hear families say, give your highlights of the day and low lights of the day. When you look at the last four years -

David Gibbs: by the way, that's a pretty heavy dinner table. (laughter) Mostly what are we gonna eat? What are we doing afterwards? And what's on tonight? Yeah you're talking a pretty serious table. But go ahead. (chuckling)

Martha: Yes. So we have some friends that are very intentional as parents, and that's something that we learned from them is give us your highlight of the day, give us your low light of the day. 'Cause then you learn a lot about the people around the table.

So in this table we're sitting around, David, what do you think of as some of the low lights of the last four years in respect to the justice system?

David Gibbs: I'll give two with the courts. I think I mentioned them, but I think we can definitely touch on. The speed with which justice is meted out in this country is too slow. To have a case that you file today and then to be adjudicated two, three years down the road and then appealed for another year or two. Is justice in five years justice? And it can be a marathon really 'cause you just keep going and the reality is, businesses don't stop. Families don't stop. Life doesn't stop. But litigation just moves at its own pace.

So I think you have to look at that. The inconsistency is troubling. The judges not being anchored to absolute truth. I think we had a legal system that was more based on common law, and this is what the law is, this is what the legislature did, and we see this in big federal cases, we see even at the Supreme Court. Law is now what a given judge thinks on a given day. So that's a little scary for people and businesses, trying to base their life on what judge do we get? Whether this is going to go one way or the other.

I think culturally you've gotta look at a couple big shifts. One is in the area of life, I think we're watching over the last four years, a lot of trend towards what I call the quality of life lie. And let me just tell you what that is. If you don't have sufficient quality of life, your life isn't worth living. I was the attorney for Terry Shiva's family. You remember that back in Tampa Bay now 20 plus years ago. And back then it was traumatic that we would take the life of a disabled woman that was alive. Now we're talking about, Canada has right to die. The west coast has right to die. Now all of a sudden, people want to go to their doctor and end their life because they're depressed or miserable. And you start looking at a culture that says, is life a gift from God or is life just what we think it is and we can end it at any point?

And then I also think you've gotta look at maybe a cultural shift towards the church or towards ministry. There used to be, you say the word Bible, you say the word minister, you say the word pastor, you say the word church, there was a cultural respect. They didn't always agree. We knew there was disagreements, but there's a respect. Now all of a sudden we've moved past indifference and I would say over these last four years there's a cultural mistrust. I think in some instances a cultural hostsility. There's some marginalization. It used to be, boy, isn't it wonderful the church is trying to reach a community? Now it's, oh, are they abusing children?

And so I think societally we've watched where the perspective towards charitable work and towards even teachers and educators and others that are involved in nonprofit type work, are now deemed as more suspect. And so it is a little unfortunate. And again, there's other areas you can look at that. Law enforcement, used to be, I grew up and was told, obey the police. He's your friend. Now, it's the policeman might beat you up and take you somewhere because you're the wrong race or because you upset 'em.

And again, i'm using simplization, but the cultural trust for law enforcement, the cultural belief in church and ministry, the cultural looking up to teachers and others that are investing in the next generation, now we've moved into a highly judgmental mistrust in culture and it just makes it that much more difficult. So over the last four to five years, I'd say those are probably some points where I go, wow. A lot has happened. Times have changed in this country.

Jim: And you left out the distrust of governmental organizations is astronomically high today. It was always a little low. Like people thought yeah, i'm not sure. Now yeah, nope. I don't trust them at all.

David Gibbs: And I'll add to that, Jim. I was gonna throw government in. I just didn't know if that was the last four years of the last 40 years. You know what I mean? (chuckling) Because we've reached that point.

Jim: Eisenhower brought it up 75 years ago. Hey, the government industrial complex. Watch out boys. You don't know what you're getting.

David Gibbs: Yeah. Ronald Reagan's quote - I'll be close - "some of the scariest words in the government language is I'm from the government and I'm here to help." (laughter) You know what I mean? That's never a good thing. So you have to look at it. It's been a problem for a while.

Martha: So let's look to the positive side then. What do you see as some of the highlights that have come out of it? You already mentioned even just the ease of Zoom calls to be able to more efficiently maybe do some of the work. What else have you seen?

David Gibbs: I think while technology can help things, it's still helping people. When you talk to a person, so a pastor calls me, a businessman calls me, a leader calls me, and they have a spirit of fear. I'm in trouble. I've been sued, I've been attacked, I've been challenged. What can I do?

And for me personally, there's tremendous joy in being able to say to them, here is the law. Here's what can be done, here is something that can help move this forward. And so I think, maybe over being able to communicate. So it used to be like you would say, can I go to a meeting with a church? And that may be like, they're in Idaho. That's gonna be really expensive. And for just one meeting. But now all of a sudden you're able to say, get 'em together. Let's have this ability to talk. So while technology is maybe less personal than a face-to-face meeting, it's also been able to bring the world really together in some ways for communication.

Even around the globe, you can talk to missionaries and others differently. Your podcasts -look at the people that would never be able to sit in your living room and have this conversation, or even if you had a church or a building, they just couldn't get there. Yeah, but now you're able to get to them on their time.

So I look at the ability to help real people with real problems take away that spirit of fear, give them confidence, let them move forward. My cases have a different feel good. A lot of lawyers, it's, they got paid well or they made a bunch of money, or they made their client a bunch of money and it's got a financial side. There's nothing wrong with that. That's the business side. But a lot of my cases may have a, there's a child that's alive. There was a baby that they were going to end the life in the hospital and that child's alive now with his or her parents and doing well. And so you almost have a, like this child is the result of this. There's a person here. So that's exciting to see.

Or a ministry that could be on the verge of collapse or death and you say this organization is going to no longer be able to minister in this community where they've been, some of them hundreds of years in our nation's history. And to see them continue to move forward and again, I'm a big believer in not just surviving. So the idea is not just to survive. It's to thrive. We wanna go forward and we wanna minister in a really effective way.

And then probably on a personal note, since we're just chatting, I have two grandchildren in the last four years, so I guess I've crossed over that being a dad and now being a granddad, that's a great highlight. And I gotta tell you this too. My kids were all into the names and I was like, nah, whatever the kid wants to call me, I'm fine with grandpa, granddad, whatever. I wasn't too particular. And they're like, dad, you gotta come up with a name or we're gonna name you.

Jim: Oh yeah.

David Gibbs: And so I was kinda like, what are you gonna name me? And I went to Duke, had the privilege of going into their law school, so the kids were like, we'll call you Duke. I'm like, I don't know. That sounds like a dog. Sounds like a school. Sounds like a lot of different things. I just don't, Duke and Duchess sounds like royalty. It's a little snooty, and they're like you come up with a name or we've got it for you.

So I saw a t-shirt that said, in a world full of grandpas, be a fun paw. And so I thought, I said it as a joke. I said, I'll be fun Paw, figuring that would be good marketing with the kids. It picked up, so now I'm fun paw and these little granddaughters have figured out I am good for things, I'm good for toys, I'm good for trips. Fun, ice cream. They like it. And then the nieces and nephews figured out, Hey, we're gonna play into this too. So now I'm uncle Fun paw. And they have jumped into that in a good way, but it is fun to see that next generation coming along, and I don't envy my kids.

You guys talking about change. Social media, it's dangerous, but the kids gotta be able to function in today's world. Technology, what a tool, but what a scary world, the premature everything. Knowledge, information, what gets to... and so how do you balance that? I'm watching my adult children and their spouses now moving through that with their own children. And it has you pausing. So celebrating for those kids and trying to be there for 'em, but on the other hand, it's a wild world we live in right now.

Jim: Sure is. It is. And we didn't talk about a lot of judicial victories, but I'd like to do that after, just wanna make sure I highlight one great thing. 'Cause one of the greatest things that came outta the last four years is the birth and the explosion of the US Christian Chamber of Commerce right there in Orlando, Florida, but spanning across the country in now 23 subsidiary Christian Chambers all over the country. You can find details about their upcoming event in 2026. IWork4Him.com/events.

Martha and I will be MCing the US Christian Chamber Expo in Orlando in April. Go to swc2026.com and enter the code iWork4Him. You'll get a discount. And there's also another great event, the National Faith and Work Summit in Cincinnati in June. So lots of great things going on there.

David, in the last 10 years we've seen free speech come under attack. We've seen the right to assemble in our own church come under attack. We've seen prayer come under attack. In some countries it's now illegal to pray in your head anywhere near any place they don't want you to be praying. We've seen the right to maintain our religious beliefs come under attack. What's next and how do we prepare?

David Gibbs: I'm a big believer - and by the way, whether you, again, politics is a hug or duck, right? There's people that just love what's going on and there's people that don't in any given state and in any, even nationally. Okay? But the reality is we do have a current more conservative, at least national direction, with less regulation, which again, can be good and bad. Maybe less taxes. That's generally good. And trying to instill a little more fiscal restraint into the government.

And I think all of that is a healthy combination that allows business to have more opportunity to thrive and grow and to go forward. But I'm a big believer, Jim and Martha, when you think about business, if you have good people, and by the way, your listeners are good people, and you give them good information, I think you gotta be careful. It's not just what chat GPT spits out. We live in a world where there's a lot of misinformation online, or even scams or spoofs or I just talked to a couple of pastors that lost lots of money in a scam.

It sounded good, and all of a sudden it's a Ponzi scheme. So I think you got good people with good information, they can make good decisions. And I think that's where in today's world, as a business leader, you gotta think about, what can I do to live my faith? And maybe a word of encouragement is they can do more than they realize. They have freedom of speech, they have freedom of religion, they have the opportunity. Now, again, back to hug or duck. You become the strong Christian business of any sort, there will be people that don't like you.

I talked to a church in California today. They scheduled a trip to Israel for next year that they were gonna work to put together. This weekend there are people protesting out front of their church over what's going on in Gaza, and they've got bullhorns and they're yelling as people are coming to their cars. Anything you do - scheduling a trip to the Holy Land at a church now opens you up to potential protests and culture.

So you have to decide, am I willing to face the noise? Now, there'll be people that appreciate it and they'll show up. And you may get more business, more customers, more trust, but you're also gonna have some folks that say, I will never deal with you. And I was talking with some lawyers today. The collegiality in the legal world is not what it used to be. Lawyers now, if it's to their competitive advantage, we'll go file a bar complaint against another lawyer just to try to see if it'll help 'em in the litigation. And it's just an acrimonious and intense way of doing things.

And so I encourage the Christian business leaders, make sure you get good information. Make sure you're moving forward, but then be willing to stand up for your faith. Let your position be known. The NCLL, we have a motto, and I like it 'cause it encapsulates a lot, but this would help you in business in other places. If it's wrong, fight it. And there's a lot of wrong in the world. We can all agree. But if it's right, fight for it. So deciding what is your mission? What is it you are fighting for? What problem are you solving? What are you ending? And be willing to stand on that regardless of the consequence, I think is significant.

And then I would probably put one more thing in for the business leaders that I'm a big believer in, which is lead by example. And by the way, this is church leaders. This is ministry leaders, this is educators, this is business. We all wanna lead by decree, right? We wanna say it, do this, do that. And that's fun, right? To be bossy and sit around, watch other people jump. But the reality is that true leadership is where they see a leader that embodies and personifies what the organization's all about. And so if you're gonna preach it, pastors, you need to live it. Teacher, if you're gonna teach it, you need to model it.

Business leader, if you're gonna ask your employees to run day and night, they need to know that you're willing to go 10 minutes longer and 10 miles further. And when they see that and you're doing it together, when you're that model of it, I believe at that point you get real leadership, real buy-in, and people can get excited about what's going on.

Martha: Amen. And I'm gonna make sure I put a link to one of our previous interviews with you, David, in the show notes. And the reason why is if people have not heard you speak before, one of the things I often share is that you always tell us the things we can do. And I think that's so powerful because we are in a world where we hear all the time as a Christian, what we can't do. And I love that you even just now said it again. You said, what can we do and being leaders that are really worth following, right? Standing up for what you believe, but also needing to know what that truth is.

And you you made an excellent point too, that there's a lot of things that we can find out there that are not the truth. They've been curated to try to lead us in a different direction. So make sure we're getting our truth from the right places.

Jim: Even those protests, now that they have professional paid protestors.

David Gibbs: Yeah, you don't know what ever you're dealing with. And let me say this, I'm a lawyer. I don't like most other lawyers because if you start dealing with insurance and risk and adjusters and mitigators and you put a label on it, right? What's the easiest thing? Don't do it. If you send a rocket up into the sky, oh yeah, it might blow up. You might kill people. You could be sued. But we're never gonna explore space.

You load a truck full of stuff and you go down the highway, could you have a wreck? Yeah. Could you have an incident? Yeah. Could your tires blow? A lot of bad things can happen, but we're not gonna get the goods and services we all live and depend on. It's a management of risk. If you're gonna live risk adverse, you don't ever go anywhere. You're stopped, you're parked, the car's in the garage, you're dead. And by the way, there's churches that have died, there's businesses that have died, a lot of organizations, but you've gotta manage your risk and you gotta decide, why am I here? And then you're gotta be willing to take that risk.

And then, Martha, you take biblical concepts, right? Treat people the way you wanna be treated. That seems so basic. But we live in a world where people wanna almost act like the customer's a pain and I'm just here for a paycheck. And we're watching where the US, and that's our country, is not leading like we once did in certain industries and areas. And so I think we always have an opportunity as Christians. We're commanded to be salt and light. That means we have to preserve and protect and shine and be willing to go forward.

And just decide - if it's all about the money, I will tell you the Bible's pretty clear that you can't serve God and money. And when they talk about the root of all evil, they don't say money's evil. Be careful. People misquote that. But if that's your love, it will ultimately be insufficient and it will ultimately lend to your destruction, 'cause the new car does break and you gotta make the payments. The bigger house still needs to be clean. Electric, taxes, everybody sits there and ends up at some level, frustrated with it. And yet that was what they were living for.

But when you find that purpose, and the purpose is in what God's called you to do, made you. That's why we're in his image, right? We have the opportunity to make our life count for something bigger than ourselves. Wow, that's real legacy. Now, you may die with a little smaller bank account than you could have if you'd just gone after money, but think about the impact, that legacy, and then I'm a big believer, you're gonna stand before him and get to hear some really cool words like "well done." And those are the sort of things that get me excited when you start thinking that way.

Martha: Amen. And if you think about the workplace, which is what we talk about on iWork4Him, , if the living and breathing God is living inside of you, then the gospel has to come out in the work that we do. And Satan can't keep that from happening. But we need to stand and be bold. Living out the gospel should be a part of our DNA.

But sometimes when we have computer troubles, it's hard to live out the gospel. So if you want to do what you can to protect yourself, your family, and your company from viruses or hackers, you can trust all of your devices to SaferNet. Their dashboard allows you to seamlessly see activities and to know what the virus protection, the filters, and the other controls that they have are working hard to protect your mission. Go to SaferNet.com and let them know that you listen iWork4Him.

Jim: We use it on every device. It never lets us down. David, what kind of challenges are you fighting in courts right now?

David Gibbs: I'm facing a lot of issues where churches and ministries are wrestling to even just keep what they have. We're in a world right now where denominations are changing, imploding, changing their beliefs, and here's a church that might have been in existence for a hundred, 200 years, and now an out-of-state corporate denomination that's gone woke, says, we're gonna take your property back. We don't want you anymore.

And these people are like, but this is our church. Grandma's buried out back. And so just even making sure that your organization is safe from takeover or from outside influences, and you say, why would an outta state denomination try to stop a church? It's all money. Greed. They want the assets, they wanna liquidate, they wanna put it in their coffers, and they want to advance their agenda.

And then I would also say, the fear factor. I think Martha said it. There's so many Christians that are like, you can talk about everything. You can talk about your gender fluidity or your sexual orientation and all that is out of the closet. We can talk about that because, it's he him or she her or they them, or whatever you wanna be. That's all cool.

But the Christians, in some measure, fearful, like they gotta be in the closet. And so what I challenge is it's time for Christians to be out of the closet. Doesn't mean you're obnoxious or rude, just means be yourself. If you believe in Jesus Christ, talk about it. If you're going to church, tell people about it. Take people with you. There's nothing wrong with being you, and so living your faith is in some measure, being genuine. Just be yourself. Live your faith, whether you're a realtor, whether you're a salesman, whether you're in ministry or you're just, in your mind, in a secular endeavor, be yourself and let Jesus Christ shine through you.

Think about this. Jesus could have shot us all to heaven, right? Could have just said, you know what, David, Jim, Martha, you won't do anything bad if I just once you're saved, i'll just get you outta there. But he didn't do that, right? Why not? You say, iWork4Him, but I'll take your motto and say We all live for him. Some people work for him because they take their life and they actually put it in their workplace. So I love what you guys do, but the reality is we all are here for him, if you're a believer in Jesus Christ.

So thinking about making your life radiate for him is something that is exciting and encouraging, and I'd encourage everybody to think, am I really serving my purpose as to why he left me here?

Jim: So that's another brand option he's offering is Radiate4Him? Hey, that's awesome.

David Gibbs: We're taking iWork4Him every which way. You've already branded that masterfully in a good way for Jesus glory. But let's just take - by the way iParent4Him.

Martha: Yeah.

David Gibbs: I recreate for him. I do whatever. I hang out with friends for him. What is your - everything you do should really be focused around the "For him" part.

Martha: Yep.

Jim: We so agree. As you look at the next decade ahead of you, what do you see? What do you hear God saying, David, lemme just give you a little hint of what's ahead?

David Gibbs: I would say this: every leader, as you start moving along, has to start as, and some don't do this, and I help them too. But you gotta start thinking about, am I bringing along the next generation? Do I have 20 and 30 and 40-year-old attorneys that I'm training, discipling, mentoring, hiring, working into?

So otherwise, an organization as noble as it could be, will either die with you, which is, some narcissist founders want that, right? They, it's all about them, right? But the reality is, if you're really trying to leave something behind, you want it to continue on. But then the other dynamic with all of that is if you don't do that, then you don't have people trained and organizations can take left and right turns. They can be quacky cults or they can be left-leaning liberal. And people say I don't even recognize this anymore.

Harvard university was designed to train Baptist ministers and look where it is today. And so somebody says, how did an organization change like that? There's a natural tendency to move away from core biblical values. And so that's part of our sin nature. So I think as a leader, you have to think about, am I finding my successor? Not that I plan to stop. I'm healthy, young, wanna keep going, but my point is, you gotta start looking at, are there people behind me?

It's the old farm team concept. Am I bringing people behind? And then culturally, I think we have to expect what I will call bounce back. And what I mean by that is we are going to see where the younger generation is watching right now the older generation, a little bit pushing, maybe just a little more conservatism into the culture, and I think you're gonna see a younger generation that's going to continue to ask some hard questions. Is grandma in her eighties worth paying for? People go, whoa, that's a hard question. Or does it the right to die turn into the duty to die?

Or do social security benefits get tied to mandatory death ages? And you say stuff like this and people go, oh, freak out. That would never happen in America. Canada right now is, can't keep up with all the citizens that they gotta kill. And so we're living in a world where life values, religious liberty... i'll just throw out one big one. Will future generations value the church where it doesn't pay taxes? Or will we be in a day where they say, eh, you guys have had a good deal for a long time, but it's time to start kicking in income tax, property tax, sales tax. And all of a sudden a church that was able to function on a hundred thousand dollars a year budget tax free starts looking at 20,000, $30,000 a year in taxes and they gotta shut down.

So I do think we're gonna see some trends and maybe what I talked about earlier, whether it's life, whether it's respect for ministry, education, what is going to occur in the future, but I am passionate to be that salt and light. And as long as God gives me breath, energy, opportunity, I plan to stay marching forward and keep doing what I'm doing and at least show up on iWork4Him every four years. (laughter)

I kept going to my mailbox 'cause I knew you wouldn't send an email 'cause you're like a dinosaur. So I'm gonna go to the mailbox. (laughter)

Jim: I'll text him next time.

David Gibbs: And I kept looking for a letter from Florida, Missouri, or wherever you guys land at any given moment. I know you're jet sitting around the world doing big things in Orlando and Cincinnati and everywhere else. But I kept looking. I was like, no, not today. I was like, I wonder if Jim just forgot me. 'cause I knew Martha wouldn't. (laughter) but then ultimately she emailed. So it was really your lovely wife that saved this phenomenal relationship. And again, I'm teasing. I hold both of you in huge esteem, but I'm always honored to be on your program. So you say the next 10 years, I hope it I get on at least once or twice more.

Martha: There you go. We'll have a date four years from now. (laughing)

David Gibbs: Okay. That's good. Yeah. At least four years. Yeah, that's right. Every four. It's like presidential elections. Just, your audience can take...

Jim: unfortunately we're out of time.

David Gibbs: Oh, are we outta time? When the preaching gets good, the deacons all gotta slip out and count money. You just never know how it's going. (laughing)

Jim: Oh boy.

David Gibbs: Is this the conviction of the holy spirit? And if I started an altar call, you need to come down first. So I'm ready for you, Jim. (chuckling) Alright, it's your program. I'll turn it back to you, sir.

Martha: Oh, you're awesome.

Jim: Check David out online and his whole team at ncll.org .It'll be in our notes for the show. And I recommend, if you need help, NCLL will be the one to help you or they'll send you the direction of where you need to get help. David Gibbs, thanks for being back with us today.

David Gibbs: Honored to be with you.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.