iRetire4Him Show 160: Ask More. Lead Better.
Jim Brangenberg: Your retirement years can be 30 years filled with meaning and purpose as long as you connect your faith and your retirement days.
Martha Brangenberg: Welcome to iRetire4Him. We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Check us out online at iRetire4Him.com.
Jim Brangenberg: When I grow up I'll learn to ask more questions and do less telling. I love to tell, but asking question actually reveals more about something or someone or anything. So how do you become an expert at asking questions? How do you become an expert at leading with questions? I have no idea because I'm not good at it at all. But Bob Tiede is awesome at it.
In fact, for decades he's been writing about it, talking about it, posting about it. In fact, at 63, he started capturing leadership lessons through questions, and now 13 years later has gathered over 1300 blogs. Now, Bob has his favorites and 39 of 'em are in his latest book, Success Unlocked. When will Bob slow down? I don't know, but he's an inspiration to all of us on what it looks like to live out our faith in our quote unquote retirement years. Bob Tiede has appeared many times on iWork4Him, so we asked him this time for an update right here on iRetire4Him. Bob Tiede, welcome to iRetire4Him.
Bob Tiede: Delighted to be with both of you.
Jim Brangenberg: Bob, most everyone your age is retired and on a permanent vacation. Why not you?
Bob Tiede: Jim, as I read the scriptures - first of all, coming up in April, I'll turn 77, and by my calculations, that means I only have three years left of development before God gives me the assignment for which I was born. As I read the scriptures, it was at 80 that Moses, Joshua, and Caleb got their assignments. Now they got to do some great things leading up to that, but it was to get 'em ready for that assignment. And then they each gave it 30 to 40 years. So Jim and Martha, I have just figured out my retirement date.
My birthday's April 17th, 1949, so on April 17th, 2069, I'll be 120 and that'll be my retirement date. But I'm not fully committing to it. We'll have to see how I'm doing then.
(laughter)
Jim Brangenberg: It depends on whether you speak to the rock or throw a stick at the rock. I believe that was some of the determining factors right there. (chuckling)
Yeah, it's incredible when you read those stories and Caleb was just as strong and as vibrant as he was when he was 40. And then he takes the upper falls and says, now I'm going for the lower falls too. Let's do it.
Bob Tiede: Amen.
Martha Brangenberg: I love the jest behind your conversation, and I hope it actually puts people to open up their Bible and look at the scripture a little bit more closely, Bob, because that's really what you're referring to is the biblical examples that we've been given in our life that we are encouraged to follow and how so many of us like to skip over them when they're not real convenient.
Jim Brangenberg: What Al Gore calls an inconvenient truth.
Martha Brangenberg: That's exactly right. Okay, so Jim alluded to it in the introduction, Bob, but you started blogging over 13 years ago. Why did you do that? What did you observe that urged you to get started with that?
Bob Tiede: One of my colleagues had started a blog, and I ran into her at our headquarters, and her name's Andrea. I said, Andrea, you started a blog. And she said, Bob, you need to start a blog. And I said, why would I wanna do that? And she said let's sit down. So we sat down for a few minutes and she said, Bob, I know you're 60 something, which I was then, and she said, you might know I'm 50 something. And these emerging leaders we're trying to develop, Bob, their average age is about 28. Bob, do you know that they speak another language?
And I looked at her a little bewildered because they were primarily an American audience who I thought spoke English. She said, Bob, they also speak social media. And when they politely inquire, Hey Bob, are you on LinkedIn? Twitter? Facebook, Instagram, and that 60 something leader said, no, no one needs to know what I'm having for dinner, stereotyping social media.
She said, Bob, our staff are polite. They probably won't say anything, but she said, I fear they're walking away thinking, I hear old Bob. I hear old Andrea, did some good things in their day, but it's like that's no longer relevant. That little conversation convinced me. And so I jumped into social media, into blogging, really just thinking it'll help me learn this other language called the language of social media.
Jim Brangenberg: So she guilted you into it. I like it. (laughter) And everybody listening that's 55 plus has all had to make that, am I gonna embrace or am I gonna take the race and run away? My dad retired 35 years ago because he didn't wanna learn computers. Now today, if you don't embrace social media, you really can't succeed as a business owner, period. End a story.
And it can't just be Facebook. If you wanna reach people under 50, you gotta go onto Instagram and Snapchat and all these other things that I have no idea what they are. So Bob, what's the story behind Leading with Questions? Why? The focus on leading with questions? And you got all kinds of books and I've read almost every one of them - about questions. You just released your latest book, Success Unlocked, the Transformative Power of Questions. Where did this come from?
Bob Tiede: I'm so glad you asked. Whenever I speak, I always start with a confession. And my confession is, for most of my Cru career, I was a benevolent dictator. I thought the job of a leader was to figure out what needs to be done, and I said benevolent with please and thank you. Then ask your staff or tell your staff, but it's, Martha, would you please do this? And when Martha did it, thank you, Martha, when Jim did it. Thank you, Jim. At a staff meeting. Jim, stand up. You all need to hear what Jim did.
But still, the paradigm was a leader needs to figure it out and then kindly and with appreciation, tell your staff what to do. Now like you, I love books. I just happen to have right here in my hand, the first edition. This is the actual book I bought. I was already on the US Leadership Development Team and this first edition of Leading with Questions filled with stories from leaders literally around the globe. And as I read it I had only one question: why hasn't anyone shared this paradigm of leadership with me?
I mean, it like instant made sense. And already on the leadership development team, I began to teach out of it and I found the response of other staff was just like mine. They thought the job of a leader was to tell people what to do and again, with good hearts, but when they saw leading with questions, it was like, oh my gosh, how did we miss it? And then another book, I didn't write it, but I compiled it: 340 Questions Jesus Asked. And we could spend a whole session on that. But just think about it for a moment.
Did Jesus want to see lives changed? Of course, but did he know that there was a greater likelihood of a life being changed if he asked them a question - let me ask you - and they answered his question and their answer to his question created the change because they thought it was their idea? And when a leader begins to understand, wait a minute. No, I'm not Jesus. But if I will seek to communicate the way he did, I could take advantage of how he wired people and that we have a greater likelihood of actually seeing change in people by asking a question.
But also, Jim and Martha, I ask people this all the time, how have you felt whenever you've had a leader, somebody you report to, ask you, Martha, what do you think we ought to do here? How did that make you feel?
Martha Brangenberg: Oh, amazing. Valuable. Like I maybe had something to give back and to offer to the conversation.
Bob Tiede: And without saying, "Martha, I value you." Just asking and listening communicated that. And then if a leader does that with his or her team, what are the chances they're gonna hear ideas better than what they were thinking?
Jim Brangenberg: Okay, I love this, but when I had leaders ask me questions, I was always thinking I gotta give him the answer he wants or she wants, so I don't get in trouble. But I know that wasn't always the case, but actually most leaders back in the seventies and eighties, that is exactly what they wanted. They wanted their answer, but they were asking it sarcastically.
But I love this approach and I'm trying to remember, wasn't it was one in one of the earlier books that you wrote, and it might be in the Great Leaders Ask Questions, the blue one over your right shoulder. Was it that you were an unrepentant teller or you were a reformed teller or something? You wrote something there that I've never forgotten and it, do you remember what you said?
Bob Tiede: Not sure, but one of the things I say all the time about that is that if you can imagine your right arm to be your telling arm, most of us are good to go. If you can imagine your left arm to be your asking arm, most of us would say it doesn't have equal strength.
And the truth is, most of us are good at telling, but we need to develop asking so that we could have equal strength. And it's not that a leader never tells, but a wise leader knows when to tell, but when it would be better to ask. And just like Martha said, if asked, feeling valuable, if you ask, let me go one more step. Martha, not only what you just shared, your idea, but I say, Martha, would you be willing to lead our team in executing on that? Now, Martha, how hard will you work?
Martha Brangenberg: Very hard.
Jim Brangenberg: Yeah.
Martha Brangenberg: Yes.
Bob Tiede: Whose idea are you executing?
Martha Brangenberg: What I think is my own.
Bob Tiede: Yeah. Versus thinking, bob's the boss. He signs the paychecks. I better do what he wants, but I really don't think that's a very good idea. It doesn't have the same heart for execution as, "wow, love your idea, Martha. And let's go with that."
Jim Brangenberg: And we're gonna get into this a little deeper because we're talking about - okay that's the practical and leadership in an organization where we're getting paid. But most of our listenership today is, they're not getting paid. But yet, I think this approach has a powerful application for retirees. But before we do that, I wanna make sure we draw everybody's attention because we're talking about questions. Here's a question for our listeners. What do other people your age need that you already have?
The answer is simple. They need to understand the retirement calling. It's that simple. Get 'em a copy of iRetire4Him: Unlock God's Purpose for Your Retirement in our bookstore online or on Amazon. IWork4Him.com/bookstore. And if you order it soon and you do it off the website, we will autograph it. If you do it off the website, before we send it out, we'll autograph it for you. That'll make it so much more valuable.
Martha Brangenberg: I wanna ask a question right now.
Jim Brangenberg: Okay. Ask a question.
Martha Brangenberg: Oh, I was just gonna to be funny like, Jim, do you find the value in you signing the book?
(laughter)
Jim Brangenberg: It makes me feel better that somebody wants to get my signature. I could be famous one day. I could be the mayor of my town. You never know.
Martha Brangenberg: Okay. So there's so many things I love about this conversation, Bob, and I will tell people right now, 'cause this is just a comment I have learned over the years from you is you send out amazing emails about things like questions to ask at the Thanksgiving dinner table, questions to ask at Christmas, things that we can apply not just in the work environment but in our home. And I think that's why this conversation is so relevant to the iRetire4Him Crowd because there's so much value that comes to the table from those that are a little further ahead of us in life.
Jim Brangenberg: We call them chronologically superior.
Martha Brangenberg: We do. And so I just hope the listeners are listening into this because this is key, but I'm very curious if you see the next generation actually seeking the wisdom of your generation. What are you seeing happening between the generations?
Bob Tiede: Martha and Jim, quick answer is absolutely. But maybe not in the way in which you think.
Martha Brangenberg: Okay.
Bob Tiede: And when I say in general, I'm not really saying the way Jim and Martha think, but I'm saying the way most 70 year olds might think, and that is, we might think, Hey, they're gonna want to have all our wisdom. They do, but they actually don't want us to sit 'em down and say, Hey, let me tell you everything you need to know.
From that, they'll back away from that. You'll have coffee once and they won't want to have coffee again. But when you meet with them and you say, tell me your story and you ask follow up questions. Now, how'd you get started in that? Say more about that. And you actually let them do 80% of the talking- here's what's fascinating. Now this is actually true.
Anytime we meet a new person, if we meet a new person and I do 80% of the talking, they may smile, they may nod their head. I may think they're really enjoying this, but inside they may well be thinking, what a windbag. But if I meet a new person and I ask them questions and let them do 80% of the talking, they will almost always trust me because they felt heard. They felt, wow, this person's interested in me.
And so the thing that those of us that God's allowed to live to 60 and 70 and beyond, the key in relating to this generation is to ask them questions and listen to their answers and follow up. Now, here's something fascinating that happens. I also say that we frequently, we play ping pong with questions. I see you " the morning. I say, good morning, Martha. How are you? What are you likely to say?
Martha Brangenberg: Oh, I'm doing fine. (chuckling)
Bob Tiede: What question will you likely ask me then?
Martha Brangenberg: How are you?
Bob Tiede: Yes. Jim, if you and I were having lunch somewhere and I just, Hey Jim, I'm curious, what are some of your favorite places for you and Martha to go eat? You're gonna answer me and I'll say, oh, tell me more about that place. And, what else is on the menu? What's the average dinner cost there? And some follow up. But when we're done, what are you likely to ask me?
Jim Brangenberg: Whew. Boy, that's a tough one. 'cause I'm a good question asker now. I would say, I'm gonna ask you where do you take your bride out? Do you guys go out, still have date night, even as old as you are? Do you guys still have dinner out? (laughing)
Bob Tiede: Amen. Yes. My point there is we frequently will ask the same question. So when you're meeting with that 20-year-old, 30-year-old, and you're asking about their career and what they're learning and you're listening to them. Don't be surprised then if they say, Jim, tell me about you. What was your first job? And now it becomes a conversation, not us dumping all our knowledge on them, expecting them to take notes, but a conversation where now they're returning the favor by drawing it out.
I also find that the 20-30 year olds, they're looking for a relationship. And no way are we there to replace their parents, okay? But at the same time, I find that so many of them actually come from broken homes. They didn't actually have a dad in their life in the same way that we did. And it's not that they're looking for us to be the replacement dad, but they really enjoy having a relationship with a 60, 70, 80-year-old that shows interest in that.
And so at any rate that yes, they want a relationship with us, but if you want to have that relationship, don't feel like you can just sit 'em down and tell 'em what to do. Sit down and ask them about themselves. Draw them out.
Jim Brangenberg: Bob, how do you make sure that you are available, accessible to those next generations? You're doing your blog, but where do you go to make sure you are physically available for those people?
Bob Tiede: Jim, something that, that I love to do is I love to have breakfast, lunch, and coffee with people. And so when I meet a young person, I'm saying relative to me, a 20, 30, 40-year-old, and we meet somewhere, I'll frequently say, wow, I'd love to have lunch with you. I'd love to have breakfast. I'd love to hear more of your story.
And by just asking that, usually it's sure, let's pull out our schedules and we find the time, and then when we get together, I'm following that pattern of, wow, so glad we could meet. I'd love to hear your story. And we go down that path and I'll ask him some more.
Another favorite question I like to ask is, what would you say are the three to four events that have most shaped who you are today? And that has become a favorite question. It is one of those questions that they can answer however they want. Now I'm surprised sometimes that they actually include painful things. But they didn't have to. I didn't ask 'em to share something painful. They chose, in other words, I, when they do.
I feel like, wow, trust is already here, that they feel that. But just their answers to the three or four things will quickly tell you a lot about their upbringing, their experiences, what's exciting to 'em, that kind of thing.
Martha Brangenberg: Oh, that's so good. I think making ourselves available to people in whatever avenue the conversation may lead really is huge. And whether it is through meals or coffee or just extra time in a hallway with someone, but showing an interest in them that is really genuine.
And I believe that your question asking is such a huge part of that because I think a lot of us are guilty of starting to just give our life history to people and if we can relate and hear what other people are saying, that's huge. Okay, so let's talk about your new book. Success Unlocked. And as Jim also said in the in the introduction, he talked about the fact that you took some of the blogs that you have written in the past and you compiled - was it the most popular or your most favorite? How did you come up with them and then maybe share a couple of them with us?
Bob Tiede: Yeah, in the 13 years, my blog has been out there, we've had over 1300 posts.
Martha Brangenberg: Wow.
Bob Tiede: And we just used some of our analytics to identify - and you can only put so much in a book. We ended up identifying the 39 most popular out of 1300, and that's what's in here.
Now also, just for your listeners to know, I'm much more a curator than an originator. Of those 39, only two of them are authored by me. 37 of 'em are authored by others, and that's been true of my blog. And the result is we get to learn from great leaders, literally from around the globe, about leading with questions. If it was limited to just what Bob knows, it would be very little. But now we have all this, some of my favorites.
I don't know if our listeners know the name Joel Manby. He, for years, was the CEO of Herschend Entertainment, which has like Dollywood and a number of things. Then he got a job being the CEO of SeaWorld.
Jim Brangenberg: Yeah.
Bob Tiede: But he wrote a fabulous book. And in that book he shares the story going way back to I think about sixth grade. And his teacher, her name was Ms. Prey, she asked for a meeting with his mother and him. And so they have this teacher meeting. And it starts with Joel's a very good student. He's actually the brightest student in our class. Has the highest grades, and he's sitting there thinking, wow, this is really great.
But then she said, but you, Mrs. Manby, I wanted to have this meeting with you because I wanted you to hear what I want to share with Joel next. And she said, Joel, you are an incredible leader, but I consistently see you taking over. In other words, you're in a group, somebody else is leading, and you quickly lead. And Joel, if you don't learn to begin to value other people, you'll never become the leader you could be. He shares that story. It's an incredible story. And then there's another story.
Paul Smith, his son is on the basketball team, high school basketball team. And the other team members are in their house and he's overhearing a conversation, and they're all making fun of a girl at school. And Paul walks in and he discovers the girl they're making fun of is confined to a wheelchair and blind, and he, in a proper way, lets his son and all of them have it.
I am so disappointed. You guys are supposed to be leaders at school. The next day he walked in unannounced noon, cafeteria time, and, found his son and the basketball team and said, guys, come with me. Where's Jenny? Jenny's by a table all by herself. There's no one eating. And he goes over and he taps her and she's scared at first but sits down and introduces himself and begins to ask her some questions.
And the final question was about her dreams. And she said that she loves to go to the basketball games and just hear the crowd, and she would love to be cheerleader. Wow. The boys listening to this are just astonished. And as the rest of that story is told, yes, Jenny becomes a cheerleader in her wheelchair and Jenny's table becomes the most popular table at that school, all because of a dad who walked in and demonstrated asking Jenny some questions and listening and helping his son and his teammates discover, Hey, that's a real person. She's got feelings. She has dreams. And when they begin to hear it, they realized how shallow they were, how wrong they were.
But it's just, it's an incredible story and, again, so many different posts in the top 39. I love every one of 'em.
Jim Brangenberg: Bob, as we close out to, I appreciate you sharing that. The book is great. I totally recommend everybody get a copy of Success Unlocked. We'll have a link for it in the show notes for you able to get to it.
There's a lot of people out there that are going ? He's just wrote another book. Why doesn't he learn to go onto the beach and relax? Just encourage those that are listening today that believed before they listened to today's show that the American dream of retirement was real, was biblical, and you figured out that it isn't, and here's what they're missing.
Bob Tiede: I recently heard John Maxwell, he was saying, people ask him when he is gonna retire? And he said I recently heard that retirement means you can do whatever you want, whenever you want to do it. And by that definition, I'm retired. And I thought, so am I by that definition because I am doing what I wanna do when I want to do it.
And we talked earlier before we started the show that, only perhaps fans of the University of Tennessee like to be called volunteers, but I love to call people that come along, self-funded staff members. And you had another term, Jim.
Jim Brangenberg: Fully funded missionaries.
Bob Tiede: Yes. And there are so many opportunities. My lifelong mentor Bob said he actually doesn't know any happy retired folks, if by retirement you mean do nothing. He said the happy ones, yeah, they may have retired from their full-time role at a company, but they're still committed somewhere. They still show up. They still know they're making a difference.
No, they don't have to punch the clock eight to five, five days a week 52 or 50 weeks out of the year. There's flexibility, but there's somewhere where they know they've committed to, they show up, they make a difference. Jim and Martha, I actually have an invitation I'd love to extend.
My day job with CRU. I'm still full-time, 54 years with Campus Crusade for Christ, now called CRU, and I recruit outstanding leaders from outside of CRU and many of them are recent retirees and they commit to coaching a CRU leader every other week for two years. And it's been a game changer for both our coaches and our CRU leaders.
Now we will train you, so if you say I don't know how to coach, not a problem, if you have a willingness to be trained. But if you'll reach out to me, I'd love to have a conversation with you if the possibility of coaching a CRU leader is something and again, we're talking about one hour every other week, not a full-time, new role for you, but a way to make a difference.
Jim Brangenberg: How are they getting ahold of you? Bob?
Bob Tiede: Best way is to email me bob.tiede@cru.org. You'll put it in the notes. So rather than me spelling it out here, look in the notes. And you'll find how to spell my name and the email address and just reach out, say, tell me more about this coaching thing. And I'll respond to say, let's find a time to talk.
Jim Brangenberg: No, I thought you'd respond, "can we find a time to talk?" (laughter)
Martha Brangenberg: You've gotta ask a question and ask a question, so yes. That's fabulous.
Jim Brangenberg: Wow. Bob, you missed a chance there.
Bob Tiede: I'm still learning. (chuckling)
Martha Brangenberg: I love that because one of the things we know to be true, and you just reiterated it, is that using the life experiences that God has given us and encouraging future leaders is a way to really be invigorated yourself and to know that you're giving back in such a powerful way.
And I love the fact that CRU is so intentional about helping their leaders be the best that they can be. So Bob, thank you for posing that offer out there. We'll make sure all that information is in the show notes for our listeners, and I'm excited to hear if anybody takes you up on it.
Bob Tiede: Wow. Thank you.
Jim Brangenberg: And thank you Bob Tiede for being on iRetire4Him today. Appreciate it. It's always great keeping our friendship up. So grateful for your example. We hope that in 17 years when we get to 77 - 17 and a half years - we are equally as excited about everything we're doing.
Martha and I are working on our 25 year plan. What does it look like to get to 85? You're working in the 120 plan, so we're in the same range, but Bob Tiede, thank you very much.
Martha Brangenberg: Yes.
Bob Tiede: My pleasure.
Jim Brangenberg: You've been listening to iRetire4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. In this retirement phase of life, we all want our lives to be full of meaning and purpose, so we can say, iRetire4Him.