2/7/24 - 2028: Abiding and Aligning

Jim: You've tuned into. iWork4Him, the Voice of collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: And we are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Martha, before we get to our guest today, I thought it'd be fun to bring in Krystal Parker from the U.S, Christian Chamber of Commerce to hear a little bit of her story.

Krystal, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Krystal Parker: Thanks guys. Happy to be here.

Jim: Krystal, why do we have a U.S Christian Chamber?

Krystal Parker: Simply put, because we need a place for social capital for people that share a biblical worldview that wanna do business together with people that have the same values.

Martha: I love how she says that so well! Krystal, you know that we love the U.S Christian Chamber, but I want you to tell our listeners who you serve.

Krystal Parker: Yeah, we serve businesses that have God as their CEO. That's who we serve. We serve him first and foremost. And we serve all kinds of different businesses. Businesses that are doing business in the world, and maybe they have a product or service that is not just for Christians, and that is awesome. We love those people because we need to support them too, as they're out in the world, serving others and give them a place where they can learn about what it means to integrate their faith and work and see their business as an opportunity to be a ministry into the world. We also serve Christian businesses.

Jim: So I was just gonna say, what you're really saying is you're serving business people who are in their biznistries, as Chuck Prophet would say, but you're really supporting them out in their mission field, helping 'em be successful? Krystal, the U.S Chamber is a national chamber, but you're working with many local Christian Chambers. How does that work?

Krystal Parker: We want to be a guide, an umbrella for those local Christian Chambers of Commerce. Just like our business owners, we don't want them to feel alone. We don't want our local Christian Chambers to be out there trying to do it alone either. So when we come together, we have the Christian Chamber Coalition for that same reason that we're supporting business owners.

We wanna support these local Christian Chambers so that they can strengthen Christian businesses and transform their local communities.

Martha: So it is awesome to see more and more people get interested in the idea of a Christian chamber. So let's talk a little bit about the upcoming event that is happening in April and tell us all about it.

Krystal Parker: You got it. U.S Christian Business, Expo and Global Conference in Orlando, Florida, April 18th, 19th and 20th. This is just gonna be an incredible event to grow your network, to hear from over 30 different thought leaders in the industry. This conference is foundationally based on first Corinthians 3, a letter that Paul wrote into Corinth.

And at that time, Corinth was an economic epicenter and with a, just diverse beliefs and culture, similar to how it is today. And so we're gonna take this conference and really equip business leaders from all over the world to go out and be that light and salt into the marketplace.

Jim: And where do people go to find out more and to get signed up and register for this event that's only a couple months away?

Krystal Parker: Just a couple of months away. You can find us at USChristianChamber.com. It's uschristianchamber.com. There is a tab on our website that's conference 2024. Click that, you'll get all the details and join us in orlando.

Jim: Krystal Parker from the US Christian Chamber. Thanks for being on iWork4Him. Thanks for giving us a little live commercial about the upcoming event. I've heard you had a, not only do you have 30 great speakers, but also two really good-looking emcees .

 (laughter)

Krystal Parker: We searched high and wide to find these emcees , but we wanted to keep this event lively, fun and we want people to grow and to really come into community.

And that is what these two amazing emcees stand for, is growing community and network. And so we're so proud to allow you guys to be a part, allow you, you've allowed us. And what am I saying? Thank you for allowing us to have your amazing talent for this event as our emcees.

Jim: Krystal Parker, it's great to partner with you and the US Christian Chamber. Thanks for being on today's podcast and we know for the next three weeks we're gonna bring you on to talk more and more about this event. But thank you for being here today, Krystal. Have a great one. Thanks.

Krystal Parker: Thanks so much.

Jim: If you're an entrepreneur, you know the feeling. You're driven by solving a problem. You love to be busy. You love a challenge, and if you don't mind making money at the same time, you're running from the minute you wake up til your head hits the pillow, but you love Jesus too, and you're called to run a business with him at the center.

In fact, you're not an owner at all but a steward and God is your CEO. With that in mind, how do you know what the CEO wants from you? You need to listen. Be quiet and listen. Where does that fit in your schedule? Brad Hawkins is an entrepreneur and the founder of Safernet.com. He has had successes and failures, and Brad now relies on God as his CEO, and he spends time every day with him in an abiding process.

And I'll let him tell you all about it. If we're gonna run a business, there's a right way and a wrong way. Today we're gonna talk about the right way. Brad Hawkins, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Brad Hawkins: Jim. Martha., I love being here. You guys are amazing hosts. I love your podcast and thanks for doing what you do. You have quite an impact in today's world.

Martha: A lot of that is due to the people that we are able to meet along the way. And Brad, you're one of those people. And I would love for you right now, just as a Jesus follower, Jim was referring to the fact that there's a right way and a wrong way to run a business. Is that right? Is that what you believe?

Brad Hawkins: I do believe that, and I've become an expert on how to run it wrong, and I'm working hard on correcting that. But yes, there is definitely a right way and a wrong way to run business. And in my mind, you can be successful in either one. It's just whether or not God's gonna be glorified through your process.

Jim: When you first launched your previous businesses, did you always include God in your planning, your strategy and your day-to-day operations?

Brad Hawkins: That is such a great question and it's a multifaceted question.

Jim: You're going to give us a multifaceted answer then.

Brad Hawkins: So I would say yes. I always had God involved. I always asked him to bless. What it is that my great idea was yes, he was always involved and I would always be either happy or frustrated at the fact that God was blessing or not blessing it. And really that's the key point to me is that, I spent a career building some pretty large and worldwide, meaningful businesses out of my own plan and my own idea and my own vision, asking God to bless everything that I was doing. And I missed completely seeking God's will for what it is that I was supposed to be doing. And that to me is the right and the wrong way, is that I did build some very successful businesses but they weren't necessarily the plan that God had for me.

And that's the interesting part, is that, our God has this amazing plan for each one of us. And my plan was to develop an empire. And I developed an empire. It was an empire unto me. And I kept, just kept asking God to be blessed. And God would do little bits to take care of us, but he was not the focus. Success was the focus.

And when I was able to make those changes, those adjustments to say, wait a minute, , how can you be glorified through this? What is it that I need to do? It wasn't until then that things started really changing.

Martha: So did God really play a role in your business at that time?

Brad Hawkins: God played a role in my life. But I wouldn't necessarily say he played a role in the business. Every time something went wrong I would pray but I wouldn't be asking him what those next steps would be. Truthfully, one of my businesses, we had a financial life coaching company for a while, and there was more people saved in that business than I think in my church, which was really fun and and really meaningful.

So it wasn't that God was not involved and it wasn't that I was not out front with my story of God, but was I doing what God asked me to do? I can't tell you that. He still took every advantage that he could that I gave him, but it wasn't that I was seeking his wisdom and his guidance.

First, I was laying out my plan and saying, okay, God, this is a great idea. Now bless it.

Jim: So I've never done that, so I have no idea. It's so sad that you had that problem.

Martha: I'm thinking that our listeners can relate with that. So let's go to today then. What part does God play in the day to day now?

Brad Hawkins: Multiple years ago I had a pretty life-changing experience. And I did have a lot of business ups and downs. And we've talked about that in another podcast, but the real life changing experience I had was to learn and abide with Christ. Now I, I know, it's interesting because John - we've all heard pastors speak on abiding in Christ.

John 15, and I have written down here, John 15, one through seven I won't read the whole thing, but it says, I am the true vine and my Father is the vinedresser. Now, if you think about that, he is, Jesus is the vine and I'm the branches. And God is the vine dresser. And when you go through that verse, you realize, okay, my job is to stay connected to Jesus, or it's to stay connected to the vine.

So I have this mental image of me grabbing onto that vine and not letting go, and I'm just staring at the vine. And by me staying grafted into that vine, it allows the sap or what we know of as the Holy Spirit. To be able to flow through me and produce fruit behind me. I spent a lifetime trying to develop fruit.

I just work hard at it trying to develop fruit, and it's God's job. My job is to stay connected to the vine. God is the vine dresser. He's pruning my branches. He is picking my fruit, and he is passing them out to whoever might need my fruit. But I'm not even paying attention to the fruit.

I'm paying attention to staying connected with Jesus. And so that's really the image that I have in my life is to say, you know what? My job is to abide in Christ all the time, abide in Jesus all the time, and allow the Holy Spirit to work through my work, my business, my time with friends, or whatever the case is, and produce fruit out of me staying connected to Jesus.

Jim: That's a good word. We're gonna talk more about that abiding process that Brad just described in just a second.

Martha: Yeah. But Jim, I think now is a really good time to tell our listeners why we are customers of Brad's company, which is SaferNet. And that could be found at Safernet.com, but can you quickly tell people how it gives you, specifically because you're the computer guy, peace of mind at home and in our office?

Jim: You know what I love more than anything is the control panel where you could go out there and you set up, not only does it track what it blocked and it tracks what it allowed, but it allows you to block and allow specific sites, because some sites seem creepy because they got, they weren't registered or they, what's the word, Brad?

Some sites are, they get blocked because they're just not...

Brad Hawkins: We block sites for all kinds of reasons. One being they're brand new. Two is that they're listed as something that you don't want, right? And so we let you pick what you want and what you don't want.

Jim: And what's really beautiful is that I have found that certain websites like Facebook, like some of the news sites, they have a salacious programming that leans towards pornography. And I don't want to be slipped into any of that. And so I just block things with SaferNet's control panel so that I don't ever have to worry about going places where I don't want to go.

But what's really cool is that if I get an email from somebody that I think I know, and they've got a link in that email that I think I should click, if I click it and I shouldn't have clicked on it, SaferNet is smarter than me and it'll say, Hey, idiot. You shouldn't click on this link. Go back. It's not what you think.

Martha: That's actually not their wording. That's you. That's how you read the message.

Jim: It should be! So I recommend that all of you get out there. I love the safety and security of SaferNet. Go out there to Safernet.com and get signed up today. It's very reasonably priced and has all kinds of power. Safernet.com.

When I first met you. God just kind of threw you into our lives. You talked a lot to Martha and about abiding, which by the way, we're still working on. What is abiding?

Brad Hawkins: Abiding is a life, a lifestyle. It's a, some of my friends call it a Bible study. I don't call it a Bible study. I call it a lifestyle and it's just basically having a desire to stay connected to my Father, and when I'm staying connected to my Father, I allow him to stay connected with me and speak to me and communicate with me and help me know what it is that is wise for me to do and help me know what is not wise for me to do.

And when I'm not abiding or when I'm not staying connected to my Father I have to make all those decisions on my own. And I am pretty good at making decisions. I'm not really dumb at it, but I'm nothing like my Heavenly Father that sees everything, that knows everything, that understands the entire universe.

I know what's happening three feet in front of me, and that's about it. And I would rather rely on him and his expertise. And abiding is just basically staying connected to him. Spending some time in the morning with him every morning and allowing him to speak through his word. I love learning out of his word.

I love learning what it is that he has to say. And one of the realizations that I had was, God gave me his word that is here with me all the time. Now I just closed my Bible, so I'm not sure where I was last, but he's with me all the time and he wants his word to communicate to me.

Now he can speak to me through my thoughts, he can speak to me through my friends, like you guys. But his word is with me all the time. And the question that I have to ask myself is when I read it, is it real? Do I believe it? And it's interesting because I find sometimes I read it and it says something and maybe he's saying, I wanna bless you abundantly.

My immediate thought is he wants to bless someone else. He wants to bless the person that he might be talking to in the scriptures. He might, he wants to bless whoever it is. And that's the difference between a logos word, which is the word that is written on the paper, communicating back and forth.

But when the Holy Spirit gets involved, he can say, Hey, that's for you. That's a Ramos word. That is a word that says okay, God's plucking this out of the Bible right now to speak this directly to you. And that's when you realize, oh my goodness, the God of all the universe. Yeah, the God of all times cares enough about me to say this to me for this particular situation.

Martha: So I love this whole concept. But I wanna break it down just a little bit for our listeners because it's one thing to say, spending time, but what does that look like? Give us just a glimpse because it, I'm sure it's still gonna look different for everybody, but what does it actually look like for you to abide?

Brad Hawkins: Oh, that's excellent. What I do is I start out my day and typically I commit myself to 15 minutes. Just 15 minutes. That's not a lifetime. It's not shutting off everything. Now realistically it goes longer than that most times. But if I commit myself to 15 minutes, I know I can squeeze that in any calendar.

If I commit myself to 15 minutes, I just pick up where I started reading yesterday. And I don't try to get through the Bible in a year anymore. I don't try to do all these special things. I just read one verse at a time, concentrating on that verse saying, okay, what does that really mean? And there's sometimes when a verse jumps out to me and says, Hey, this is really cool. I didn't ever see this before.

A lot of times that's the Holy Spirit in you saying, Hey, pay attention. This is something important. So what I do is I write that down in my journal. I write out the whole verse, and then I underline the parts that seem like they're really important. And then I do this crazy thing because, most Bibles have references, center references at the bottom, wherever they are.

And I go to the references to say, okay, God said that in this chapter. What other chapters in the Bible did he say something similar? And I go, and I call it bouncing. I bounce to those other scriptures that are related to that. And I feel like, man, that's really cool that I didn't even realize that was there.

And then I write it in my journal and I just keep going. Until I start seeing, my goodness, there's eight different things that all pop out. That, that's pretty meaningful. God's trying to say something to me and I underline that in red so I don't miss it up. And I just keep going through that process to, until I can see, oh gosh, I can see there's a trend or a process that, that God's taken me through to show me something.

What is it that he's trying to show me? So I just go through and keep writing things down and bouncing around to see what he has to say to me.

Jim: So talk about how this applies to your business, because as a Jesus follower, you are running a business. You're a steward of a business that God has given you. It's called SaferNet, and I know you have an event center and some other things that you do. How does this abiding process impact your business world?

Brad Hawkins: Number one in Ephesians, it talks about staying in the spirit, staying connected to him. I make much wiser decisions when I'm at peace, when I am not living out of a world of panic and concern.

And I just walk that out, understanding what God's saying and choose to make my decisions based on that. And that's number one. Number two, sometimes -not all the time, but sometimes when I'm in the middle of making decision, just my morning time of like I said before, my, my term is bouncing. I just bounce through the scriptures to see what the Holy Spirit might have to say in tying scriptures together.

But sometimes he gives me a direct answer that I'm just like, good grief. I didn't even realize that. And it's interesting because I was having a problem with one of my key people. Back a few weeks ago, probably a couple months ago by now. And I was thinking, do I need to demote her? Do I need to move her? What do I need to do?

And he showed me going through scripture what her real problem was. And I went and sat down with her and I told her, I said, I think you're struggling in this area. Tell me more about it. And she just burst into tears and said, this is exactly right. I haven't told anybody. And I had a chance to pray with her.

And just by us walking through that issue, walking through that process, she is completely changed. No, no discipline needed. It was just God showing her love, saying, Hey, there's a struggle here. There's an issue with the husband and now I got her connected to a counselor and she's in so much better shape now.

I could have lost a key employee. I could have ended up in my own way saying, you know what? You're not following all our guidelines. You're no longer welcome here. Hit the road. But God and his compassion kept me in a place where I have a key manager left. I don't have to worry about hiring, training or anything.

And they are more loyal to the business now than they've ever been because of God's gracious mercy and love for her.

Martha: And potentially so much more healthy in the process, because of your obedience and in directing her with that. And I think that's huge for us to hear because it's, this isn't only gonna affect us personally, it's gonna affect the people around us by our steps of obedience in that.

Brad Hawkins: Yeah. And that's God's economy. That's the way he works. He doesn't ever do things just for us. He's working every angle. Every deal all the time. It's just, are we gonna participate in that?

Jim: And I think it's super important for people that are listening, for all of us that are listening, to recognize that's why we're in business. Yes, it's great to make money, but it's people. We are in business for people and our number one ministry while we're in business is to our people and then our customers and vendors. But our people, they've gotta know that they're loved and you show 'em love by actually spending time with them and praying for 'em.

And when they got an issue, talking 'em through it, even if it's confrontation. But you could do that all in love. Brad, I love that. I want to close out the show just asking you a couple of tough questions. Alright. You could have started any business after your businesses had failed and you had fraud perpetrated against you.

Why did you start SaferNet?

Brad Hawkins: If you know me pretty well, you understand my, the day that I live for above all days, if you can even call it a day, is the day that I stand before my Father for the first time and he says, well done. And I look at all the things that I do and I think, okay, what is it that he's going to say well done to, or what is it that he is gonna say you did that on your own?

I, I don't know why you did that, but hey. It wasn't sin, it wasn't anything bad, but it's not part of my plan. And so I looked at that and I said, okay, what is it? Now, interestingly enough, I was invited into SaferNet as a consultant, and I ended up having to take it over and fix it and move forward in it.

And it's wonderful. But I asked God multiple times, do you want me here? And his answer multiple times, even through the struggling years, was absolutely, I want you here. And what I understood from God was that the internet is the greatest tool of all times. Maybe barring the industrial Revolution, I don't know, but it is the greatest tool of all times, and the enemy has every fork of disaster in all angles of the internet.

And the vision that he gave me is how can we participate with believers to say, you can use the internet like you need to, and let SaferNet block the enemy's disastrous plans to drastically change your business or your life. Because of the internet. And our goal is just to keep believers safe as they walk through this plan.

Jim: So we talked about abiding in the middle segment of the show today, and then we're talking about SaferNet again. And I love your explanation, and I'm grateful for SaferNet. How does SaferNet - supporting the business, that we are all stewarding - how does that help us to abide?

Brad Hawkins: How does SaferNet help us abide?

Yeah. Honestly, from my perspective now, in my office I have multiple screens. One screen I use for my, my business work, and I have another screen right here that I use for abiding. I have my Bible and then I do all kinds of work on the screen. It is completely blocked out of any social media, any, anything that would distract my Bible time.

Now, this computer, I'm accessing everything all the time, but I don't want to have any distractions when I'm spending time with the Lord. I don't get any pop-ups. I don't get anything other than the verses or the whatever Bible verses I'm trying to pull up and read and go through.

In my mind, SaferNet is designed to keep you focused on whatever it is that you're supposed to be focusing on. You're never supposed to focus on the devil's plan. Never. But he's always trying to interrupt you, right? In another business that I have SaferNet set up so that all social media is blocked out of my accounting. Because I was having a problem with people not working as hard as they probably should. In my marketing teams, they can use social media because they need to understand who they're trying to sell to. You can design your experience with SaferNet to be whatever it needs to be. When I'm abiding I don't want any distractions. I just want a safe access to the internet.

Martha: And I think one thing that maybe goes without saying, but that could certainly be true, is the fact that if we know that an area of our business is taken care of, that I don't have the expertise in how to protect all of the bad guys from coming in, but if I have something like SaferNet that is doing that for me, I don't have to fill my mind with all that and it, I don't have to be worried about it and I can be focusing on whatever it is that God has before me at the time. And that kind of distraction is gone as well. Are there any final thoughts on abiding that you think our listeners need to hear today as we close up the show?

Brad Hawkins: I believe that God is talking to each and every one of us. Twenty-four, seven. He wants to communicate with us. He wants to lead us down the path that is the healthiest and the best for everything about us. He wants the very best for every single one of us. When I am able to stay connected to him and hear his leading voice, to guide me through my day and say, you know what? Stop and take care of that employee, or stop and take care of that store worker or whatever it is. When I am in that place and I have that peace that he's providing me on a regular basis, that I can't understand where it comes from, I absolutely am blessed beyond my ability, but God is providing that for every single one of us. Twenty-four, seven, all the time.

And anytime we feel like, and believe me, I felt it - anytime we feel like God's abandoned us and walked away from us, he's right there all the time. It is just that we have to stop, set aside whatever it is that's causing us the great distraction, and get back to the place of saying, okay, Father, what do you have for me?

And stay connected to that. That's that old vision of grabbing onto that vine. Stare at the vine. Don't let go of the vine. That vine is our lifeblood that allows the Holy Spirit to flow through us. If we let go of that vine, getting ourselves distracted, we're at the whim of the enemy. We wanna stay that connected.

And he has that for every, there's nothing special about me or you guys . Just that we wanna hang onto that vine. And anybody can hang onto that vine and stay connected to the flow of the Holy Spirit.

Jim: Brad Hawkins, thanks for being and iWork4Him today. Thanks for sharing some of your story. Thanks for talking to us about Abiding today. Appreciate it, Brad.

Brad Hawkins: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Jim: You've been listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha. Brangenberg. We're Christ followers our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

1/31/24 - 2027: EmpowHer Collaboration

Jim: You've tuned in to voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, Jesus prayed in John 17:20, I do not pray for these followers only as he talks to his disciples. I pray for those who will put their trust in me through their teaching they have heard. That would be us. May they all be as one, Father , as you in me, and I am in you, may they belong to us. Then the world will believe that you sent me.

Wow, what a, what a caveat, that we walk in unity, and that the world will actually believe in Jesus. And believe that the Father sent Jesus because we walk in unity. But what does that really look like to be part of the unity of the body of Christ?

What does selfless collaboration really look like in the kingdom on earth? Have you ever seen it? Have you ever experienced it? Is it really possible? Just because we say we're working in collaboration with others doesn't mean we're truly looking out for the greater result that two or more can make over what we can do separately.

What do you have to give up? What do you have to give up in order to collaborate? Are there any answers to any of these questions? What does this have to do with living out your faith at work? Well, today, Catherine Gates joins us from The Polished Network, a network dedicated to Christian working women for encouragement and for the building of collaboratories.

Well, Catherine Gates is going to explain today. Catherine, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Catherine Gates: Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be with you guys again.

Jim: Catherine, three years ago, you became the executive director for Women in the Marketplace out of Cincinnati, Ohio. Why did you take that job?

Catherine Gates: You know, I have to tell you guys, I loved working for Work Matters, which is where I was before that opportunity came up. I loved being part of the team. I loved the collaboration that we experienced on the team. But God put a tremendous burden on my heart for working women. I just kept hearing from women the need that they felt for community with other Christian working women who cared about people. integrating their faith at work.

And he even led me, the Holy Spirit led me to write a book for Christian working women, the Confidence Cornerstone, A Woman's Guide to Fearless Leadership, which was published in November of 2020. So as much as I had hoped to serve working women through Work Matters, God closed that door and opened the door with Women in the Marketplace.

And so I took that job because I saw the need. I felt God put that burden on my heart to participate in meeting that need. And so I went for it as, as a step of obedience.

Martha: You know, and there's so much that we've already covered actually, and what God did during that time in past interviews that we've done together with you, Catherine, but in July of 2023, another change happened.

And that was where Women in the Marketplace merged with the Polished network. Why did that happen?

Catherine Gates: We got introduced to Polished really almost right after I joined Women in the Marketplace, and I was able to, having worked with the Work Matters Conference, help them with their very first Boldly conference, just sharing connections, ideas, resources to help them make that more successful.

And so that was us actually collaborating with them on Boldly 2022. I mean, like really getting into the project together fully. I was on the team helping recruit speakers and, and just manage the speakers. When we would meet you wouldn't know that there were people from two different organizations in the Zoom room.

You know, we, it really looked like we all worked as one. And so it was so successful. That conference went so well and we really enjoyed the work that we did together. So Kathy Book, the founder of Women in the Marketplace, you know, she was never in it to build a big organization. She's always been collaborative and she just really wanted to serve the needs of working women.

She really felt the Holy Spirit led her to pursue the idea of merging the two organizations into one. Since we both have a heart for collaboration, I was all on board. And and then we brought Tracy Matthews in from Attune to bring the two leadership from the two organizations together to really pray through that and seek the Holy Spirit, seek God's guidance.

And I'll tell you what, we didn't all go in with the same ideas of what would come of it, but through that prayer session and really, really truly seeking God, we all came away from it saying, you know what? This is what God wants and so, so that's why we went for it, you know, because we do believe that when we work together, we are better.

Jim: Now for the listeners that can't see my face, sarcasm noted coming up here quick. So you're no longer the executive director. You were executive director of Women in the Marketplace and now you're the vice president of business partnerships. Many would say you were nuts to give up the title and prestige of an executive directorship in the name of collaboration. What would you say to them?

Catherine Gates: I don't care about a title. I care about being obedient and meeting the needs of working women. And if that means I'm working for another executive director, which by the way, Amy Cedrone, I couldn't find a better person to work for and with. She's wonderful and amazing and it's just the best experience.

But I would say that not only are we able to meet the needs of working women better together but I just love being part of the team. I love being able to see everybody thrive in their gifts. I actually love not having to wear a whole bunch of different hats and be able to focus on being strategic about building business partnerships and helping grow leadership in women.

Martha: That's so exciting to hear that you honestly believe that, that it's not about the title. It's about what you're able to accomplish. And you know, that is what we want our listeners to hear because it's about the heart and the heart of the matter. And it's funny that we're talking about laying down titles because that's so countercultural. You know, our culture is all about what's next and the higher title or whatever.

We recently did something very countercultural, and that was to let go of a company that we had been utilizing for over 20 years. We knew we needed to make a change when we discovered that our cell phone service provider was supporting anti biblical causes with our monthly fees. And so, Patriot Mobile is now our new cellular service provider, and they are the only Christian conservative wireless carrier. So, just think now, a portion of every dollar earned by them goes to organizations that we can actually believe in, and that we align with.

And if you go to PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him , you will find out for yourself about the great service, the fair pricing and the support that they are giving to those that we believe in and even iWork4Him. And there are so many workplace believers that can hear about their workplace mission field because that now would be supporting the very cause that we're promoting every day.

So that's just something that we're really excited about and I just encourage you to check out the show notes and see the links there.

Jim: That's patriot mobile. com forward slash iWork4Him. All right, Catherine now that the merger is completed and Women in the Marketplace and Polished are one, what advantages have you seen coming from the setting aside of yourself for the greater good of other women?

Catherine Gates: For one thing, since we're one organization, we're able to better utilize the talent on the team. So like I said, one, I don't have to wear all the different hats. I can focus on strategic relationships, on helping women grow as leaders, on using the gifts that I have to build relationships. Our, our Polished podcast cast host, Jane Dorman, she had actually put, God put it on her heart to start the God's Word at Work podcast in 2023.

And so now she's transitioning to relaunching the Polished podcast as our host in January 2024. And so we're super excited about being able to use her talents that way, but we've also expanded what we have to offer women. So under one organization, instead of having to go to two separate organizations, we now still have the Polishedchapters where women can, can join in community with other working women.

We've got the Boldly conference, and we also have expanded Bible study resources. And of course we have our leadership development programs, including our, our collaboratories.

Martha: So let's talk about that for a minute. Your collaboratories are something new that has been emerging. So tell us a little bit about that.

Catherine Gates: I'm super excited about the WIM Collaboratories. And right now we're calling them WIM Collaboratories. We may eventually change that name, but it's, it's just sort of a carryover from what we had started launching while we were at Women in the Marketplace, but they are leadership peer groups that are designed for women at any level of leadership.

And so typically these kinds of groups have been available to C suite executives, and they've been predominantly men, even though they are open to women. I've been part of some of those groups, and they're incredibly beneficial. But at the same time, women can gain tremendous benefit. But from being part of a group like that, that's made up of all women.

And so we felt very strongly about having groups for women that were available to women at all levels of leadership, from diverse backgrounds, with diverse experience to grow together and learn from one another.

Jim: When you say Collaboratories, I naturally go to collaboration. Are they really accomplishing collaboration between all the people that are inside these collaboratories? Are you teaching collaboration? What is it?

Catherine Gates: That's good. First of all, I do want to say, as long as we're using the term collaboratory still, I want to give credit where credit is due. Chuck Profit from At Work On Purpose came up with that term and they also have collaboratories that are open ended and ongoing.

Jim: So we now have two words we have to give Chuck Profit credit for? Biznistry and collaboratories? In the Webster's, does it say, and Chuck Profit made up these words? I mean, I know biznistry is his word, but collaboratories? All right, Chuck, way to go, buddy.

Catherine Gates: Yeah. Yeah. So, so actually you know, we're really created to grow in community. And so, yes, this is a great opportunity for women to collaborate in their growth. You know, all the leadership development that we've created, it's a 12 month program for up to 12 women, is based on the stories of Jesus in the gospels. And so that's one way they're collaborating is through their growth and sharing.

What they're seeing, what they're learning and kind of wrestling with the questions and challenges with one another, but also there's a mastermind component where each woman has an opportunity to present a business problem or a goal or challenge that she's facing and presented to the group and and then just get questions from the group so she can kind of dive into things that she may be making assumptions about or hasn't thought about and then hear their experience related to what she's wrestling with.

And so they are collaborating in terms of just working through those problems and challenges and goals, but also they're encouraged to meet with one another in between the monthly sessions.

Martha: And we'll put the link in the show notes, Catherine, but you have a new collaboratory starting up pretty soon, which is just something I want our listeners to know, because this is not like this mystery secret that you know, we don't really want to tell them how to get. We want them to know how to get involved and to take that next step. So, just quickly address that.

Catherine Gates: That's right. We have three different collaboratories happening in three different cities in person. We're about to launch an online collaboratory starting Tuesday, April 9th, so people can join from any part of the country. I'm actually going to be talking to a woman from England later this week about her interest in it.

So, any part of the world. But yes, it'll be monthly meetings and it will be online and we will, my co co leader and I, are thinking about ways to really make this a unique experience because it is online, to take advantage of really building those relationships.

Jim: So is there a link that we could tell people that how they will find out more about the collaboratories from Polished Network?

Catherine Gates: polishednetwork.org/collaboratories and there'll be one box there that says online collaboratories. That's probably the one you want to click on, although there will be others starting both online and in different cities. We're also very interested in talking to people who are interested in facilitating in their city.

Jim: So you've got openings in, so you're right now, you said in three cities. So there's still 19, 577 cities still left open for Polished Network to open a collaboratory.

Martha: I bet you could even have more than one collaboratory in a city, too. Well, some cities are bigger than others. Yes. But, you know, I just love your heart of all of that, Catherine, that at Polished Network, there's no limit to what God can do and the resources that you can make available for women.

And because of where we're at in life right now, virtual is an amazing option for people that just don't have that other option in person right now for one reason or another. So as long as we're talking about events and things on your website, give us a quick little blurb about the Boldly Conference for this year.

Catherine Gates: Yes. The fourth annual Boldly Conferences. It's Friday, October 18th in Dallas, Texas, actually, Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, just outside of Dallas. We are so excited. Our theme this year Is Boldly unified. So very appropriate to the opening scripture. And, very, very needed. And so we really are looking forward to bringing that theme to life, both in the conference experience and through our speakers that include Kat Armstrong, Sharon Hody Miller. Nikki Lawrence, president of e commerce at Black & Decker, Jenny Catron, CEO of Foresight Group, Meredith King from Integrus, Lisa Nichols, CEO of Technology Partners, and more. So yeah, we are, we are busy building out that roster, getting ready to announce the speakers. So you can learn more at Boldlyconference. com. Again, it's Friday, October 18th.

Jim: All right, before we end this segment, and we're going to talk more in the next segment, more about what unity and collaboration may or may not look like. When a woman, a Christian working woman, gets involved in the Polished Network, whether she gets involved in a collaboratory or not, their lives are impacted.

Do you have any life impact stories you could share with our audience today?

Catherine Gates: Oh, I'll tell you. I mean with the chapters, there are women who have said, you know, that they felt so isolated before they found their Polished chapter and they finally found a community of women who they felt they could really connect with to encourage one another and certainly learn from the speakers about what it even looks like to lean on Jesus.

Just it's just been so encouraging to see how much people are finding those, those relationships that they've been so hungry for in the collaboratories, the very first sessions of all the three collaboratories that just started back in the fall. All the facilitators were blown away by how vulnerable and open the women were with all these women that they're meeting for the first time.

And I think that does speak for the fact that we do create a safe environment. But I think it also speaks to the fact that women are so hungry for that kind of connection with other working women that they feel that they can be authentic and real with. And so that's, that's really what we hear a lot from, from people who are involved with Polished.

Jim: You know, I love the fact that you've got so many things on the horizon. You've got this online collaboratory for the Polished Network. You've got the Boldly conference, which Martha and you have gone together so many times, and it's been such a great opportunity for Martha. I love it. I'm frankly just a little jealous, but you know, guys are not allowed.

But when I think about this, I realized that we don't always know what's on the horizon. And, and I think that that's important to know because we need to be prepared for what's unexpected and try to protect against things that we don't want to disrupt God's plan. That's why we use SaferNet VPN at iWork4Him and at home.

Their VPN makes it easy to set it up and stop attackers before they get in and disrupt the important work that each one of us is doing .They also have web filters. They also have antivirus things that just keep you from being stupid on your computer Just think about that for a minute. Disruptions are costly in time and resources and if you ever get one of those viruses that locks up all your files, you'll know about time and money.

It's time and money we often don't have to waste. Most people I know don't have time to waste, definitely don't have money to waste. So why not protect the ones you love and prevent disruptions? Check out SaferNet. com, SaferNet. com.

Martha: So Catherine, you are a gatherer of people. What other kinds of collaboration are you working on today with the Faith and Work movement?

Catherine Gates: Martha, I'm so excited. I had this idea, you know, shortly after we announced the merger, we had a couple of organizations reach out to us and say, Hey, we need to talk. And I've just wanted so much to get the leaders of some of these organizations together in a room to share our goals, to share our dreams, to, to just explore and brainstorm how we might be able to support each other and maybe even work together.

And so there's a gathering of women coming together in March in Dallas from 15 different organizations, about 21 leaders, where we will be doing exactly that. And our goal as the host is one, we're going to participate too. We're bringing in a facilitator, but our goal is that all of these leaders of these women's faith and work organizations feel comfortable to phone anybody up that they meet over that weekend to contact them for encouragement, for prayer, to brainstorm, to explore a possible collaboration.

And we certainly hope to generate some innovative ideas for how we can collectively increase our impact for working women in God's kingdom.

Jim: Good. Did you have a follow up?

Martha: No, go ahead.

Jim: You sure?

Martha: Yeah.

Jim: Okay. All right.

Martha: We're not going to arm wrestle.

Jim: So, I mean, I love that. I think it's fantastic. And I know that these meetings you've had in the past with gathering people together from multiple organizations have led to really incredible relationships between organizations that you've already been facilitating, Catherine, and we love that.

So here's my question, and I want to get just a little, it's maybe just get a little not edgy, but just maybe a little sandpaper to the audience and really any ministry leaders that are listening today. Do you really think, Catherine, that most Christ followers understand and know what Jesus was talking about in John 17:20-23 about unity and walking in unity?

Catherine Gates: I'm afraid, Jim , that we're not really thinking about those scriptures. We're not thinking about that prayer. It's, you know, sometimes I think we read those verses and we just think it's over there, like that somehow God's going to magically make it happen, but we need to participate. And so I think we really need to meditate on those verses.

I, you know, unfortunately there is just among Christians, so much division and we need to be demonstrating unity just as Jesus said so that people know that he is the one who has sent us so, so people know who he is. And so my prayer is that people would take time to study those verses that we could put our differences aside.

We're never going to agree on everything, we're just not, but can we put those differences aside and focus on the main thing? And that is to help more people see Jesus, to see his light, to know him, to see that we are truly loving God and loving people through the way we live our lives and the way we do our work and the way we want to bring glory to God.

Martha: You know, I just had this revelation while you were saying that, that so many people are so eager to see prophecies in Scripture get fulfilled because they're like, okay, the end is closer after this prophecy is fulfilled, and this prophecy is fulfilled. It says in that Scripture, the world will know that I and the Father are one when the believers come together in unity.

That's my, my own translation of it. But I mean, it's really a prophecy that we're not even talking about. It's like, if you really want the world to see the truth, then we need to be in unity.

Catherine Gates: I mean, and we need to participate. You know, God created us to partner with him. He wants us to work alongside Him. It's not, you know, I've been reflecting a lot on, on the whole, you know, with God all things are possible. You know, it's with God, us partnering with Him. It's not Him just making all these things happen. He wants us to participate. And so we really need to look at that and pray about, God, what is, what is my part in this?

Martha: You know, and we can put a link to the show in the show notes for this, but our first show of the season this year, we talked about that very thing for 2024. It's I work with him, but the him is God, but you know, so I work with him because our mantra is iWork4Him because you know, that is, that is the heart.

But what our actions is not Oh God, I'm going to do this and you can bless it. Or God, you can come along for the ride because I'm doing this thing. We're working together with him for his good. And so I love the word with, and for a lot of people, they wouldn't understand that as a word of the year, but that, that's where our heart is: with.

We should have a poster outside. With. I bet you it would get a lot of questions.

Jim: Yeah, I bet. I guarantee in this small town it definitely would. Catherine, for Christian working women everywhere, why should they get involved in the Polished Network right now?

Catherine Gates: I see so many women who are hungry, who feel isolated, and who are looking, where can I find community?

And so, this is the reason to get involved with the Polished Network, because we can provide that community. We provide all the support if they don't have a Polished chapter in their city, we provide, in fact, we're about to create some training so that people feel comfortable even starting a small group Bible study in their workplace and so you, you don't have to figure it out alone.

We have it. Lots of resources and lots of connections. Even, you know, I've had women come to me from different cities and I've been able to point them to organizations that are local to them. And so not only will they find resources at Polished, but we can also point them to things that we may not provide or people in their cities that we're connected to.

And so don't do this alone. Don't remain isolated. Find community because that is where the growth will happen and you will find life, in that community that's Christ centered.

Jim: Amen. And really, let me just clarify what you're saying because I really feel like you're saying, you said don't do it alone.

You don't have to be alone living out your faith at work as a Christian working woman. There are groups that can be connected, that you can be connected with, but you're saying maybe you've, there's people listening to that, like I want to start something like this in my town. You don't need to reproduce the wheel.

We've already got everything for you at the Polished Network. Just call us and we'll help get you set up. You don't need to figure it out. We've already got it figured out. You just need to say, okay, God. Isn't that what you're saying, Catherine?

Catherine Gates: That's it. You got it, Jim.

Jim: Good. That was free. Right there. Okay. It was all free. That's right.

Catherine Gates with the Polished Network online at polishnetwork. org. Check out the collaboratories. Check out the Boldly conference coming up. Boldlyconference. Is that dot com or dot org? Dot com. Dot com. That's coming up in October on the 18th in Dallas. Make sure you check it out if you're a Christian working woman, you've got to be there.

Catherine, thanks for being here today.

Catherine Gates: Thank you so much for having me.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him!

1/24/24 - 2026: Payment Processing with Purpose

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: If you've ever been in business and had to find someone to process your credit cards or ACH withdrawals, it could be a nightmare.

You never know if you're getting the best deal, and the percentages you pay to get your own money for the goods that you've sold could sometimes take your breath away. Now add in that many payment processors contribute from their own profits, which are your profits, towards the organizations that support exactly the opposite of a biblical worldview, they're supporting the enemy's campaign to destroy people and eliminate our country.

Seriously. So where do you go today? We're going to hear from two powerful kingdom warrior women who have a story you need to hear and a business you need to check out Jodi Durst and Kimberly Coley, welcome to iWork4Him.

Kimberly Coley: Thank you.

Jodi Durst: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Jim: So as we do with every show, we always start off with this question.

Martha: So Kimberly, let's start with you. What is your Jesus story? How did He become Lord of your life?

Kimberly Coley: Oh, it's a long story. So I will try to make it brief. But I grew up Catholic and more doctrine, and you know how that is. And years ago, a mentor of mine gave me a book. It's called Florence Shin, The Complete Works, and it explains God and Jesus and living your day to day life.

You know, very different than rules. Like, I grew up thinking I was gonna get in trouble with God for eating meat on a Friday during Lent. You know, so this was the first book that said, oh my gosh, you can actually have the flow and be at peace and bring God into your business. And a few years ago, Jodi and I realized - because obviously being in the financial world, I thought, okay, I've got my spirituality in the evenings and on weekends, but then during the day I work and I never realized that this is nothing more than a platform, even if it is, you know, payment processing and we're highly knowledgeable.

I can bring that into my day to day. And someone asked me once, what is your ministry going to be? And I stood there for a minute and said, me, what do you mean my ministry? And that's when it started clicking for me that I could bring it into the day to day.

Jim: Your ministry is payment processing and doing it with ethics and doing it with integrity. That's what your ministry is!

Martha: So Jodi, what about you? I love hearing Kimberly's and it's giving us a little bit of glimpse into your own personal life. Tell us your Jesus story.

Jodi Durst: Absolutely. I wish I had some flashy Jesus story, but I, I don't. So I was blessed to have a grandma that was just like on fire for Jesus.

And so I got I wouldn't say drug, like I love to go to church with her and sing, see her singing in church and just got to know Jesus in a different way. So I think I became a christian as a very small child, so I can't remember a life without Him. but i've definitely had my struggles over the years and have went astray and been that lost little sheep that has gotten brought back. So yeah, just blessed to have some really amazing women actually in my life that were on fire for the Lord.

Jim: It's amazing how many times we've heard that story on this show. You can't, nobody stands a chance against a praying grandma.

So just those who are out there, those of you out there that are grandmas, don't ever miss that point. No child stands a chance against a praying grandma. We have heard that story so many times. Haven't we? For sure. All right. So Jodi, start us off. What kind of work does the Lord have you doing?

Jodi Durst: I think we have come to the realization, just like you said earlier, Jim, like payment processing is nothing more than a platform. It's where our expertise is, and it gives us that ability to just do good in the world through this platform that we've been blessed with. So we are trying to give back in different ways through our business itself, doing different charity works, getting ready to launch a mentoring program for foster care.

Kids are girls exclusively at this point that have made it to college and just trying to find different ways to share the light.

Jim: I think I just want you to go a little bit deeper. I mean, I really wanted to know, what does the Lord have you doing? Your, your job is what you've been assigned. Kimberly, maybe you can help Jodi out with this answer. What does God have you doing at work?

Kimberly Coley: Well, I think God has us bringing peace to people's lives because in the day to day people get very confused. And if we have this expertise, we can, number one, help them. Number two, we make things very seamless and there is no ridiculous question out there.

We like to sit down with our clients as we always tell them. You'll know more about payment processing and interchange and all those crazy terms you hear than you probably ever wanted to. Because I think what we both know is if we can bring people peace in the day to day and have them know that when interacting with us, we are kingdom driven.

And that that is how we live our life and try and bring that peace into the day to day. We try to take something that can be very confusing and complex and simplify it.

Martha: That's so good because what a, you know, there are so many areas of our businesses that we don't know anything about, but to be able to have some trusted place where they can go and learn the things that they maybe didn't even want to learn, but to get peace in the process.

Cause a lot of times it's comes out of frustration and things like that. So take that even just one more step and why do you think He has you doing this very work that he has you doing, Kimberly?

Kimberly Coley: I have no idea. This, it's one of those things. I got into this by accident years ago, but what I love the most about it is that every day is different.

We're dealing with entrepreneurs to fortune 50, household name companies and everybody, there are different nuances. And I think that what I've come to realize is that it's the relationships that I love. Nobody likes to do paperwork. Nobody likes to understand and do reconciliation and things like that.

But if we can make it fun and we can really connect, most of our clients, we don't have any attrition because they've been with us for years and they become friends and we care.

Jim: So I'd like to change something. You said you got into it by accident. I'd like to challenge you to say I think you got into it by incident, a God incident. That's what that was.

So Jodi, how do you work with Him in all of this, Him being God? So you've got this thing that the two of you are experts in payment processing in all sorts of shapes, forms, and fashions. How do you work with Him in all of this?

Jodi Durst: I think, you know, I was going to piggyback on what was just said, but I think this gives me the perfect opportunity.

We happen to be in an industry that is very male dominant. It has a reputation for being slimy, to say the least. People get taken advantage of, and I think this is one way to really stand out and be a difference in an industry that just doesn't normally see female leaders to start with, but then female leaders that are doing it the right way and being trustworthy and having integrity and being honest and blending your faith into your work.

Jim: Yeah. I think what's so important is that, you know, Dave Ramsey's famous for saying this: "you got to be knowing where your money's going" and, and in payment processing, that is so true because these payment processors are sending your money to places that we don't want it to really go. Why is choosing a banking vendor carefully so important, Jodi?

Jodi Durst: I think you said it beautifully. Like, you don't know. You need to do your, your research and see what these companies stand behind. We do have a whole lot of solutions, you know. We partner with over 40 banks across the globe so that we have a solution. So we really can drive those transactions to where we feel is the best fit.

So, yeah, I think just do your research and dig into what the company stands for.

Jim: You know, Martha, it was like six years ago that we really started paying attention to where our money was going and what it was supporting. We called it at that time we became aware of biblically responsible investing to make it sure that our investment portfolio was invested in companies that weren't supporting the opposite, which our listeners have been learning about all throughout this time. One of the steps is to start looking at all the other places our money makes an impact. Many services that we choose to help us run our non profit use their profits for causes that go directly against our biblical worldview.

And we are absolutely not comfortable with that scenario and we started assessing areas of our lives that need to change. Today's show is a result of that search. ePaymints is redefining the world of traditional payment processing and we're so excited to tell you more about it in the rest of this show and in the show notes. We'll have a link to their website, which is ePaymints m i n t s dot com

Martha: So, I love having this conversation and digging into things that really make a difference in our own lives. And, Kimberly, I'd love to hear from you. What are the biggest challenges that you face in running your business, both in, you know, spiritual challenge and physical challenge?

Kimberly Coley: Oh, wow. The biggest challenge is letting go and letting God. That has been the biggest thing for me. My word is let go and surrender for this year.

I'm very type A personality, and I always think I have to take this on me. Nobody else is gonna do it. I've gotta do it. And I have a very hard time delegating, and I have a very hard time letting go of things, because as I mentioned, we do have a team that supports us, but as these clients become friends, we care.

As I said, it becomes very hard for me to say things are going to fall where they may or God guide me and tell me what to do in this situation. Or you know, there's so many different things that happen in a day and I'm doing a lot of reading of the the Torah, the Old Testament, right now. And there is no word for coincidence in the Hebrew language. So sometimes kicking back and saying, okay, I don't know why this is happening now or why this went this direction, but there is a reason for it. We all have those stories where we thought something was happening and life wasn't happening for us. It was happening to us. And so sometimes I have to be still, which when I am struggling, I seem to always pull up in a book and it tells me, if I'm looking for guidance, be still. And that is not easy for me to do.

Jim: One of the things we learned in March of 2010 is that even though we're surprised by what is happening, God's not surprised by this. Yeah, so important.

So Jodi, how do you deal with hurt, disappointment, and failure as business owners? I mean, if you're gonna be different, you're gonna be a kingdom payment processor, you're gonna be focused on being still when things are challenging, how do you deal with the hurt, the disappointment, and the failure as a business owner?

Jodi Durst: That one, that one's a fresh one, Jim. No, I think, I think it goes back to our, what we're called to do is to realize that we all are human. We all have flaws. We all are those lost sheep and to look at that, look at everybody in those eyes as Jesus looks at us, you know, and, and that is easier said than done.

I've had struggles just recently where all you can do is pray for the person that may have caused the hurt, but I think that the biggest thing is just truly trying to have that unconditional love and just look at people as lost souls.

Martha: Thank you so much for sharing that because I think for a lot of our listeners, we think we're alone and things like that, where we don't know how other people are dealing with it and to, to make it so, you know, take it down to the bare bones. It's, it's praying for those lost souls because we don't know what they're experiencing. You know, we only know how it's affecting us. And in business, there's all kinds of hurts and disappointments and frustrations that come up, but sharing, helping others to see how they can process it with God on their side is such a huge part of why we have these conversations with you, to let other people peek in and say, how are other people doing it?

How are they bringing themselves to the table? Because God's already at the table, right? It's like, we just need to pull up a chair and say, okay, Lord, show us. You know, Jim, you asked that question earlier. How do we work with God in that? And that's one of the things we're really focusing on this year is leaning into that and say, God is wanting us to participate with him. How are we doing that?

Jim: So it's really our word for 2024 is instead of iWork4Him. I work with Him.

Martha: So, so on the flip side of that, you know, we all have different times where we have disappointments and hurts and stuff like that, but we also want to hear about success because we get encouraged when we other hear other people that have moved a little further down the road.

So Jodi, let's go to you. What do you see as one of your biggest successes as a business owner?

Jodi Durst: Yeah, I think being in business, we just celebrated eight years and so much gratitude for that. I mean, most businesses fail in the first five and then the statistics even change in the next five. So just the fact that we're still here, just to be raw and real, like celebrating is probably one of our biggest downfalls.

Kim and I are both type A and achievers. So we're always like, trying to get to that next step. So we have had to slow down and celebrate those successes. You know, like what have we accomplished? The fact that we're still here after all these years, the company that we built, how many times we pivoted over those eight years and changed our business model, and failed over and over and over again.

And then I think the other thing we always were thinking like this next, you know, there was going to be some big thing and we are the tortoise, not the hare. Like it is, it is doing things small and building a pond that makes you successful.

Jim: Kimberly, what's your perspective on that? But that as you deal with success as a business owner, how do you keep it in perspective that you guys are really not owners, you're stewards? I mean, how do you keep that proper perspective so it doesn't blow your head up?

Kimberly Coley: Well, I think that Jodi and I working together, we actually treat it like a marriage because it kind of is. And we do a Bible study together every Monday to start our week. And that's usually the day that we do strategy as well.

And I, in my mind, that's the biggest success because it sets the tone for the week. I've come to realize in doing that, that, you know, our experiences don't determine our peace. And how we feel and go through the day, it's really our minds. If we are peaceful internally, then whatever is happening around us in the storm, we're going to be fine walking forward.

So we have done a lot of - we've gone on retreats together. We, like I said, we do different readings. We're studying Hosea right now and trying to work into, because then when we're discussing problems over the last couple years where we've really zeroed in to do this, we're discussing them even in a very different way.

And I'm proud of Jodi. I'm proud of myself for this. Because again, it sounds so easy to sit here and talk about this, but it's been very hard to implement it into your day to day life.

Jim: Okay, so what I want to know though, as the two of you study Hosea, what are you pulling out for business people?

Kimberly Coley: What are we pulling? Well, I think the biggest thing for me, at least, is that when God told Hosea to go find a prostitute and marry Gomer, I mean, I don't run into that in a day to day basis, but he wasn't questioning, why are you telling me to do this? This makes absolutely no sense. And so that's what I've taken from it thus far, is that there may be something that pops up because one of my favorite sayings is God's ways are ingenious, his methods are sure, and I've stopped trying to intellectualize everything and really sit back and look for the revelation.

And maybe I don't need to understand why it's happening, but it is happening, so let me look for guidance here.

Jim: And often God asks us to do things that absolutely don't make sense. Because that's, that's where faith comes in in this whole deal.

Martha: That's right. That's right. So Jodi, how do you guys want to bless the Christ centered nonprofits?

Jodi Durst: I think by giving them an opportunity to have us, for example, as an outlook for not just, you know, we hope we are able to partner with them for their business, but also just that voice of like, is this okay? Does this look good? Like being that expertise for them. And then blessing back. Like we have programs where we have the ability to take some of the fees and give them back to a charity or, you know, however you want those used.

So that is a big push for us is to give back within our fee structure to something that's important to the client, you know.

Martha: And it kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier, just as far as knowing where your money is going and people that are your clients know that there's a, a pay it forward model in there.

And you know, things that don't bless us are often the opposite they're a curse. And you know, one area of the world that is filled with darkness and the world of evil is on the World Wide Web. And SaferNet has developed a safety net that protects those that we love at work and at home from this evil one that I believe is prowling around and seeking people to devour.

And yes, that's right. I'm not going to sugarcoat it today. It's really the evil one is out there and SaferNet is our choice, iWork4Him and personally, to help us be on guard, and the show notes will have the link to SaferNet's website, which is SaferNet. com, but that, that virtual VPN is just one other way that we can protect the work that we're doing, that is honoring God and moving us forward.

Jim: All right. So I want you to both to answer this question. We'll start with you, Kimberly, though. What resources or organizations have blessed you as a Christian working woman to encourage you as you live out your faith at work?

Kimberly Coley: Well, through Dan, who we all met. Around this time last year, we were at the Consumer Electronics Conference in Vegas, and that's where we met him.

And that's where the idea for Charge for Charity came up. Now, it isn't built yet. It's just a concept right now, to Jodi's point about we can give part of our margin back. So even on our website, we've started a not for profit with my younger sister. It's called abundance therapies. And this summer I had my kids out there seeing, you know, sometimes when you give back, you need it more than the people you're giving to. That's what I've come to realize. And so we, a lot of our clients will sponsor these events. And in turn, we take care of everybody as if they're friends and family. We have another really good friend that owns a trauma center in Rice, Washington, and we sponsor them. We donate. We have farm on foundation. We work with finally home. We're working with you guys.

Jim: But has there been one resource that has been- outside of scriptures - that has been a real blessing to you? Maybe it was a book that you read or maybe it was a speaker that you saw or was there something that?

Kimberly Coley: Well when we, as I mentioned, we do a Bible study, usually we'll choose you know, scripture, life way. But we read a book a while ago, and it was called spirit driven success. And this book was explaining that you need more good people with money because there aren't a lot of billionaires out there.

God, I hope my computer doesn't shut down, but you don't hear Bill Gates or anybody, you know, really out there saying, I am a believer and I am here to make money so that I can give it back. It's one thing to set up a foundation. It's another thing to actually give money, actually participate your time, the greatest thing we have on this earth, the gift of life, so donating your time.

And that book really did it for me in that, yes, because sometimes they say money is the root of all evil and they try to tie it in with that, whereas I don't think so. I think it just magnifies and amplifies who you are as a person.

Jim: And that's just a misquoting of scripture because it says money is the root of all sorts of evil, but money is neutral. It can be used for good, it can be used for evil.

Martha: Such good perspective. So Jodi, what about you? Is there something in your life, whether it is a podcast or a book or some sort of resource that has helped you in this journey?

Jodi Durst: I think it's people. So I've been blessed. Like I have a dear friend that I have grown up with that runs her own company too.

So we, you know, kind of bounce ideas across each other. I mean, the blessings have been out there, like the Matt Roberts and the Dan Salazar's that come into your life and just blow your mind with the things that they provide and, and, you know, grabbing your arm and going to battle with you. Another person is Rachel Barboa, who is just phenomenal.

And Kim and I had an opportunity to work with her and learn from her, and she is doing just amazing work in the world. So I think for me, it's been other people, some women, some men, that have really been great mentors and leaders and teachers.

Jim: So if somebody, Jodi, is interested today in learning more about ePaymints, they want to find out, I want to deal with a kingdom payment processor. How do they get a hold of you guys? And of course, everybody listening, make sure you tell them when you get in touch with them that you heard about them on iWork4Him, but what's the best way for people to get a hold of you, Jodi?

Jodi Durst: I would say check out our website. We are on all social media and I'm sure that'll be in, in the notes today. But our website or you can reach out to us personally on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is probably, you know, a great place. And then I'm happy to share our, our emails or whatever is comfortable.

Jim: And that's E Pay Mints, M I N T S dot com, E Pay Mints dot com. All right. Any final encouragement, Kimberly, for our listeners today? Maybe it's for our Christian Working Women listening audience. Is there any final notes of encouragement that you want to leave with anybody? Last, you get the last word.

Kimberly Coley: Oh my goodness. Well, I would say we would love to work with you - especially women! No offense, Jim, but we, we like to help women and guide them through this. And I think that "Draw nigh to him and he will draw nigh to you" and that God wants a relationship with you. And that's what we're busy over here trying to build and we love having people that are like minded in our sphere.

Jim: Very nice. Kimberly Coley. Jodi Durst. Thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today.

Jodi Durst: Thank you for having us.

Kimberly Coley: Thanks guys.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers our workplace It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him! ​

1/17/24 - 2025: First Thing's First: Be Awesome!

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, everyone has a calling. Did you know that was true? Some of us are called to the pulpit and others to the foreign mission field, but most of us get called to our cubicles or some other kind of work environment.

The job that you do and the people that you work with, none of that is by chance because the people that you work with need to meet Jesus and you may be their only chance. What if you had only one chance in a lifetime to impact one person or one chance today to impact one person? Well, Ed Rush is just that guy.

He may only have one chance to impact somebody's life, so every time he speaks to an audience, he makes sure they interact with God. I can't wait for you to hear Ed Rush's story and how he's impacting leadership seeking audiences around the globe to meet and hear God talk. Ed Rush, welcome to iWork4Him.

Ed Rush: Hey, Jim and Martha, thanks for having me on the show. Just want to honor what you do. You know, when I started in the military, certainly when I got into the workforce, the whole work, the church thing was not a thing, you know what I mean? It's kind of a thing now. Like we're talking about it. And I appreciate you being on the front lines of that long before it was a thing. So I'm excited for our conversation.

Jim: Boy, that's a whole nother story for a whole nother day. And before we get into what God has you do on a day to day basis, what's your Jesus story?

Ed Rush: Yeah, so the short version is, I was eight. My father was one of the most famous basketball referees of all time. My mom actually was a, was a famous basketball coach. I came from a basketball family. And my dad was meeting off and on with the sideline announcer, the PA announcer for the Seattle Supersonics, a team that doesn't exist anymore. But this guy started sharing Jesus with him. Next thing you know, brought him to dinner one night.

Invited a friend of his who was in charge of this big organization called PAO, Pro Athletes Outreach. They met with my dad, shared Christ with him. The next day my dad comes back from his trip and sits down with me and says, Son, I have to talk to you because you're a sinner. And I was like no argument there, dad.

I was not the best kid and literally he's like, well, you need to repent. I'm like, okay, what does that mean? And eight years old, you know, sitting in my bedroom I became a believer and that's the beginning of a long story, of a long story But that's the story.

Jim: That PA announcer is who connected us.

Ed Rush: That's George Toles. Yes, one of my favorite people still today. I talk to George every month, a person that I consider a mentor and I believe one of the most influential men in the kingdom, even though he wouldn't admit it.

Martha: Hmm. Well, you know, and just hearing that little piece of your story, that man was living out his faith in his work, and just look at the trajectory of the lives that it impacted. And that's why we talk about that on iWork4Him each and every time we get behind the microphone.

Ed Rush: Yeah, you know, I was, I was encouraging George. You know, George has Parkinson's for like the last 20 years and I was encouraging him and I was just explaining to him, like literally tens of thousands of people have had conversations with God as a result of what I just wrote in my last book, which I know we're going to talk about.

And I said, George, if you hadn't had that dinner, you know think about that. That's just one person and he's led hundreds of people to Christ. I said if you hadn't had that dinner... so it's exciting to think about these little drops in the water and the way the you know the the ripples kind of affect all the way out. So that's fun. That's fun.

Jim: Yeah, tens of thousands of people have learned about God because of you. I love that. All right. You have a storied career as a fighter pilot including setting of record for flying the furthest in a single engine, two engine plane, with a single engine for a plane that is supposed to have two. Tell us about this Top Gun career you had.

Ed Rush: Yeah, first of all, the thing you should know is I failed kindergarten so it wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Jim: Which I'm just trying to figure out, I've read that and I'm like, how do you, how do you fail kindergarten?

Ed Rush: I mean, it's very simple. Flying an airplane is not hard. You push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. You pull the stick back, the houses get smaller. You push the red button on the stick, all the houses go away. It's really all you need to know.

But yeah, failed kindergarten. Ended up in the Marines which is a perfect spot for me. Because the entrance requirement is very low. It turned out I was pretty good at flying an airplane. Just took it very simply. Ended up as a leading instructor in the Marine Corps for one against one dogfighting. Graduated from Top Gun. I flew that airplane across the ocean. We were, we were flying actually from Hawaii to Wake Island. I lost an engine in the middle of the ocean, flew over a thousand miles on a single engine landed on a broken airfield on Wake Island. Fascinating. Fascinating story.

Jim: Which by the way, nobody listening knows where Wake Island is. When I was reading it, I, I didn't have a chance to go look at the, map to figure out where, I have no idea where that is.

Ed Rush: It's the first place the sun touches in America. It's literally right over the international date line in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. The first morning in America is on Wake Island and there's this tiny little airstrip on a tiny little island. Literally the airstrip is one third of the entire island. Tiger sharks jumping over the reef.

Martha: But thank goodness it's there.

Ed Rush: Yeah, yeah. So that's where I spent the night.

Jim: Wow. So, did God intersect with you in your fighter pilot career, or what was it after?

Ed Rush: Yeah, so I was walking with God basically from 8, you know, kind of off and on like any kid does. When I got in the Marine Corps, I, honestly, I was convinced, Jim and Martha, I was convinced - there were 192, 000 Marines when I joined the Marine Corps, and I was convinced I was the only one. Like I thought that's just me, you know, I'm going into this, this mission field. So the first night, so I brought these little cards with me to boot camp. Marine Corps bootcamp, by the way, is no joke, right?

You have these guys yelling at you, pushing you around. I brought these little cards that I would keep in my uniform that were just little verses, like little verses just to stay encouraged while I was there. And the first night in bootcamp, they tell you never volunteer for anything. The first night, my drill instructor, just as we were getting ready to go to bed he said, listen, if you all want to, just before you go to sleep, one of the candidates, which is what we're called recruits, he said, one of the candidates, you can say a short prayer for everyone.

And I was like, what in the world did he just say? Wow. And he said, does anyone want to volunteer to do that? And I'm like I'm definitely not going to volunteer to do this job. And out of nowhere, I kid you not, nobody ever speaks up in bootcamp. Out of nowhere, someone said, Ed will do it. I was like, wait, wait, it must have been like an angel because we didn't even know each other, okay?

And literally for ten straight weeks, I got to pray every single night for my entire bootcamp class. I'd bring my little verses out, read one of those verses. And I realized I wasn't alone and that little, that little realization took me through everything. Took me to flight school, took me into the business world, took me into the speaking world, writing.

We have this idea in the, especially in the workplace that you're kind of the only one out there. And the only reason you're the only one is because you haven't told anybody, frankly, because there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people, right? And yeah, you're not alone. And even if you are out there on the mission field by yourself, you're still not alone. But that was an interesting lesson for me early on.

Martha: Amazing. That is so great. So, you know, really much like the first story we said where that one man, the impact he had that one, you know commanding officer over you. What an impact he had by allowing you that opportunity to pray. So let's talk about this. Did you ever struggle then with connecting your faith and your work?

Ed Rush: Yeah, I mean, I came out of a Christian tradition where you had all of the spiritual things over here and then you kind of had everything else way over here. And there was a great gulf between the two of those things. I was taught that there were important things like like missions and ministry and preaching and teaching and worship and everything else was kind of like over here, way off to the side. And by the way, that's not a biblical. There's, there's no biblical foundation for any of that. In fact, one of the reasons we had a reformation in 1415 and 1600s was because of that belief that there was a sort of secular crowd and everyone else was inferior.

And it's interesting in the church, even today, you hear that kind of leak through. For example, you'll hear a missionary who will stand up and speak and they'll, they'll start by saying, you know, we always knew we wanted our life to mean something more. And all the people in the business world are like, well, what am I now?

Like, you know, chopped liver. And I'm not criticizing the missionary. That's what they were taught too, but there's even that idea that sort of, there are these really important things to God. And then everything else is like, not really that important, but I will tell you, the workplace is really important.

Like, for example, I've get criticized for saying this. I've been saying this for the last year. There's a guy named Elon Musk who when he bought Twitter created a massive change in the world simply through acquisition. And by the way, Elon Musk isn't even a believer for all intents and purposes. He's like an atheist, but he was thinking like a kingdom person when he did that.

And as kingdom people I think we need to start thinking more like kingdom people in that world. So faith and work was a major issue for me when I went into the business world. So I left the Marines back in 2006, started writing books, teaching entrepreneurs and I was a business guy. Hardcore, you know, pounding nails in the business world.

I was teaching people productivity and how to grow their business and like real, real tough stuff, you know. And that'll factor into the story in just a second, but I'm sitting in my little chair. I still have this chair over here where I sit and pray, read, breathe and just sort of listen to God, do my God Talks. And I'm sitting in the chair and I had dedicated myself that day to do one hour of prayer. That was my goal.

I had heard a sermon the weekend before. Remember when Jesus says like could you tarry for an hour? I heard the sermon the week before and I'm like, I'm a Marine. I can do an hour. And so I challenged myself to pray for an hour straight. I actually took a piece of paper like the one I have here, I laminated it, I had everyone's name on it that I was going to pray for, all the verses and everything, and so I started praying, and about five minutes into praying, much like all of us have experienced, my mind started wandering.

And then I'm like disciplining myself to bring it back and then I'm, you know scolding myself for not being disciplined enough. And I'm bringing myself back to prayer and my mind's wandering. I'm bringing myself back to prayer. My mind keeps wandering and it's very frustrating at this point. I'm about 20 minutes into what's supposed to be an hour.

And what my mind was wandering to later on that afternoon, I had a business deal discussion. Huge deal for me, for the person I was talking to, turned into a six figure deal, by the way, down the road. And we're going to be negotiating the nuances of that deal. And a business deal, by the way is a way to help people, right?

You help them. They help you. Everyone gets what they want. That's why I love the business world. Everyone really does get what they want out of a transaction. And so I'm thinking through this business deal while I'm supposed to be praying. I'm thinking through this business deal while I'm supposed to be praying.

And all of a sudden it was like a light bulb pops up into my head. And I realize the person bringing that deal to my mind was God. And his interest that morning in our time together was to partner with me on what turned into a very significant business transaction for me. And it blew my mind that God was even interested, frankly, in a conversation about something that I thought He considered, and what I had been told, by the way, was a necessary evil. And I sat there for the next 40 minutes.

Jim: I think we must have gone to the same church growing up or something. Seriously.

Ed Rush: Well, actually, it's very pervasive. It's almost, and I don't mean to say it so abrasively, but there's almost in certain church environments, there's almost like a cult like view of the sacred secular separation.

I was taught the only good thing you can do in the work environment is either to breathe, evangelize, or give money away, okay? And what I found is Man, you, you sit down with someone, what I do primarily is help business owners grow. You sit down with someone and you help them grow, you help them grow their ability to bless.

Okay. Abraham was blessed to be a blessing. When you help someone grow, you grow their ability to bless. By the way, even if they're not a believer, which is kind of crazy when you think about it. And when you do that with excellence, you reflect the nature and the glory of God, whether you say it with words or not.

And sometimes the first thing you should do in the workplace is be awesome. Be awesome enough that people come up to you and do like, dude, could you give me like your secret, you know? And so man, that conversation with God sitting in that chair blew my mind. And so I started these somewhat daily conversations with God specifically about business.

I still do it today. Today it took about an hour, maybe hour and a half walk. For 20 minutes during the walk I just sat on the side of the trail, closed my eyes, just sit and listen to God about my day. I call it downloading my instructions. It's a daily habit that I still do today and it's fascinating how interested God is in your business. Far more than you think.

Jim: I think it's important to know for our listeners that we believe that on this show that God loves business so much that God could have sent Jesus to any family on the planet but he chose to send Jesus to the family of a small business owner. And when that small business owner died before Jesus entered his ministry, Jesus was in fact that small business owner and led that family business.

God loves business. It's not a necessary evil. It is a tool that he has used to bring about flourishing and cultivating on this planet and there's no two tiered system in the kingdom. That is well, we agree with Ed Rush.

Martha: And this is why we love talking to Ed today.

Ed Rush: I was reading, sorry, I know I'm interrupting because I know you're going to ask a question. I was just sitting reading in Matthew just, just recently. You know there's that story, so I was taught growing up in the church, and I know we're moving on, but I thought this was so funny. I was taught growing up in the church, Jesus went to these fishermen, these poor fishermen, and said come and follow me, and they left everything behind, and they followed Jesus.

That's what I was taught. What I read when I read this verse, it said they left the nets with the hired hands, and then they followed Jesus, right? And I thought, well that's interesting, because like, four chapters later, they're back in the boat, another four chapters later, Jesus is standing in their boat, preaching and after he rises again, they're fishing again, right?

So I was taught they left everything. Well, you know what they did. They left their business in the hands of people who they could trust so that they could go be with Jesus, so that they could come back to their business, so they could go be with Jesus. I was like - blew my mind! Left their nets with the hired hands. I was like they had hired hands. I didn't even know that. I missed that.

Martha: And what you just said, too, is God used their business because he, you know, Jesus was in their boat. Jesus used the miracle of the fish as a huge example to so many in their workplace. So we could talk about this all day. This is one of the things, that's why iWork4Him is on the air is that so many people have trouble connecting their faith and their work and really understanding that it is a biblical perspective.

So we're pretty excited in 2024 that there are a lot of great in person events that we're going to be participating in where there's a deeper dive into that connection of our faith and work. And so I just want to encourage our listeners to go to our event page at iWork4Him.com/events and there you can find out what might be either near you or fit your calendar or really be speaking into the space where you could join us at one of these events that might just take you a little further in that journey.

So check out the events page and we'd love to see you guys in person at one of the places that we are this year.

Jim: All right, Ed, God has used you to introduce people to him in a pretty unique way, and you wrote a book about it: God Talks. and you're showing it on the video. If you don't ever check us out on YouTube, you should absolutely check us on YouTube because you can see the faces that I make when I'm doing the show.

Martha: It's entertaining.

Jim: God Talks. tell me, this God Talks thing, how do you use this in your secular environment God is throwing you in the midst of? How's God using you to introduce people to him?

Ed Rush: Yeah, so back to the chair I was sitting in. So sitting in there, having, developing this, this habit of having a conversation with God and I had this old this old sort of spiritual teacher guy, who was a friend of mine, and he came to me, and he said, I've been praying for you, and I feel the Lord has something He wants me to tell you.

And I said, okay, you know, whatever God wants to say, I'm very open to that. And he said, the verse curses him who withholds grain. And dude, when he said that, I about, my heart about dropped through my body. Like, did he just say curse it? Like, that's what God has to say to me? And he, and this, this older man, he said, Ed, you have developed this technique for having a conversation with God about your business, about money, about your family, your personal experience, but you really haven't taught anybody, anyone that.

And I looked at this guy, I said, look, I don't teach that. I called it wooey wooey stuff. That's what I used to call that stuff. I said, I don't teach wooey wooey stuff. I don't teach mindset. I don't teach like claim it, name it. I don't teach, you know, like you think about it, it'll happen. I teach hardcore business strategies, marketing, branding, positioning, copywriting, communication, persuasion, like productivity. That's what I teach.

And he goes, well, the Lord wants you to, to share this message. Okay. So like the next event. I do these three day events. And by the way, what you mentioned about the events is right on. Most business owners, most people in business feel alone. If you, if you're feeling that way, or if you feel like you're struggling to kind of like find your passion and your mission, get around other people who are mission minded people.

That's one of the reasons why you should go to the iWork4Him events. It's like unbelievable when you get around people who think the same way. You're like, Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one. And you hear amazing speakers and you get connected to some incredible people.

I do these events. They're typically two to three day events. The event I'm talking about was a three day event. And during the event, about 170 people at this event, I said, look, I said, anyone who wants to ask questions to God and get answers about your business, I'm going to do this optional session on the third day. It's at eight o'clock in the morning and you can come if you want to.

We had 169 out of 170 people show up. And these are some believers. There's also atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus. There's folks who are skeptics, people who have no idea what to believe. And I start teaching them. I said, here's how I ask God questions about my business. And I put some music on. I said, I want you to ask this first question and journal the answer.

Then I said, I'm going to have you ask the second question, journal the answer. Literally, I'm looking around the room. All these people are like writing down. I'm like, I can't believe this is actually working, right? After the training, this atheist woman walks up to me. I had known her. She was actually a coaching client of mine.

And she had a yellow pad of paper, like if you're watching the video, you can see I'm holding this yellow pad of paper. And she comes up to me and she says, Ed, I'm an atheist and I have two pages of notes that I just wrote down from God. How does that work? I said, Hey Francine, you're the atheist. You tell me. I can't even answer that question in your context.

Okay. So for the next two years, this woman, every Friday sets aside an hour every Friday for two straight years to talk to God. I said, I was like, Francine, you talk to God. You pray more than most Christians an hour a week. You know, I couldn't even do an hour sitting in that chair.

So it turns out this woman, she has this massive abuse as she's growing up, 5 to 17 years old, abused by her father. She completely shuts down any conversation with God, any discussion about any heavenly father, because why would you believe in a heavenly father if your earthly dad was so awful? She doesn't tell the story for 40 years, until she has this conversation with God.

And three months after this conversation with God, she's standing on my stage, at my event, telling a story about how God breaks through her heart. And next thing you know, she's free. Now she would have - by the way, just so you know, I love the church - she would have never gone to church. Never. I'm telling you, I don't care what, what the invitation was, what choir was singing, who was there.

No way she was going to walk into a church, but she walked into a business event. And at a business event, learning marketing, positioning, branding, productivity, strategies, persuasion, copywriting. At a business event, because she was there to learn the things that I just mentioned, she has this massive encounter with God and what I realized is essentially what God created for me was what I call a covert operation.

In other words, people come to receive what they want and they do get it at my events, by the way. They're extraordinary events, but also at the events I facilitate and shepherd a conversation with God because why would you ask someone here for answers when you can first ask God for answers. Behind me there's this little tool that I teach called the wisdom pyramid. Top of the wisdom pyramid is divine wisdom. Whenever you're seeking for answers in your life - your purpose, your business, your family, your health - you start at the top. You ask God the questions first, then you ask your friends or the people that you take advice from and essentially what I do now is I do these business events where atheists, beautiful atheists, beautiful Hindus, Muslims, Christians, everybody from all walks of life, skeptics, people who have no idea what they believe, people who are pretending to believe something but have no clue what they actually believe, the next thing they know and they walk in and have a conversation with God.

I've been doing this for like six years now and I can tell you I know two people out of tens of thousands of people, I've had two people in all that time come up to me and say they didn't get a significant answer from God. Two people. By the way, there was a reason for both of those people. So yeah, that's what I do.

Martha: So, wow. I just want to, I want to start with the wow. Are you still doing that as an optional session and then people are still coming or I just want to know what that looks like now.

Ed Rush: Yeah. So that, that optional went out the window about three years ago. I, essentially now I build the entire events around a conversation with God. Like, for example, my next event is a very business centered event. The very first conversation that my folks are gonna have with God is about money. The second conversation, God's gonna break through and talk about their purpose. Then the next day, we're literally asking God questions about it.

What's our ideal customer? Where are ideal places to look for a customer? Actual real, I'm talking about like real executable questions. Again, I love starting at divine wisdom because God's wisdom is always very simple. When a business owner implements what God has for them, It's never complicated. The list is very short.

Wisdom, by the way, wisdom in general is always very, very simple to implement. If you're talking to someone who's like a business consultant, and you come away confused with a long list of things to do, you did not receive wisdom. You got knowledge, but you didn't get wisdom. Wisdom is always simple. So when you connect with God, it's very easy. And I have a philosophy about this. It's called easy and light.

Martha: Do these people know that that's going to be on the agenda when they come and they come anyway?

Ed Rush: They do now. Yeah, they do now. Yeah, so, and they did then too. I, I just told them, look, I'm going to facilitate a conversation with God. But I always tell people, and you read the book, Jim, you can, you can attest to this.

I tell people, look, you can come to this with any belief system. It's a very safe place, okay? So man, I grew up, when I grew up as a believer, I thought God, I was told God doesn't speak to anyone but his people or, or something like that. By the way, that's not, that's not in the Bible. That is a lie that comes from the pit of hell.

Jim: It's in the Bible that he speaks to people who aren't his followers.

Ed Rush: Like even through a donkey if he needed to, you know, so I mean, Jesus was called the word, right? If he's the word, you got to think he's got something to say. And so, first of all, I was shocked that he was speaking to all these people who I thought he didn't speak to.

But yeah, now what I do is I just tell people, look, we're going to start the event with a conversation with God. And then we're going to go to actual strategies, human wisdom. We're going to start at divine wisdom. We're going to move to human wisdom and then we're going to move to knowledge so that you can begin to execute these things.

And I just tell them it's a safe place. You can come in without any belief system. Okay. So there's no entrance requirement because there's not an entrance requirement in the kingdom, by the way, either. And there's no pressure, you know, there's no like manipulative sort of religious strategies.

I'm, I'm there to facilitate a conversation with God because frankly, he's got it. Like he's got it.

Jim: You ask people, I mean, in the book, the two questions. I just love, this is a question you asked your atheist friend and that you were asked that first time you're sitting in front of those two counselors when, you know, what lies do I believe about myself and what's true?

And then I think the other one is what's true about, I couldn't, I couldn't find it to underline it really quickly, but what's true, what's true about me? How do you use that in a business setting?

Ed Rush: Yeah. Fundamentally, the foundation of God Talks are those two questions. What I found in conversations with God, and I have about a hundred different ways to facilitate these questions, but the first one I always start with is, what lies do I believe about me?

What's true about me? God's ready to speak, by the way, to you on those. Fundamentally, there's typically a single belief that is the thing that's holding you back the most, and my experience with that first exercise is God goes right after that first one. Usually their feelings of unworthiness or alone or, you know, God's done with me or something like that.

That's, that's been a belief system that has literally affected your neurology. And you know, in the book, I talk about the way the brain functions, how thoughts turn into literal software in your brain. And I show you in the book how to recode that software. And so I love starting with that question. So for example, when I lead business owners through the questions about their business, the first question I usually have them ask is what lies do you believe about your business?

What's true about your business? And you will find some of the most amazing lies. Like, by the way, roughly when I do the live events, especially a couple hundred people in the room, I'll ask someone, Hey, what, what did you write down? What lies do you believe about your business? I'm believing that my business is a necessary evil.

I'll go. How many people wrote that down? 30 to 60 percent of the room literally will raise their hand when somebody says one of their things, 30 to 60 percent of the room. What that means is the enemy is not very creative. They just continue to copy the lies over and over again. Right? And so what happens is.

This person over here has been thinking they're believing this lie, and they think they're the only one, and then they see 120 people raise their hand, and they're like, oh my gosh, we're all, we've all been, and then it reinforces the fact that it is, it is a lie. And so I love those questions, it really peels back the onion of belief, and fundamentally what you think turns into what you do. So you think something, it turns into a set of actions, which turns into a set of results.

The, I think really the magic of God Talks is undoing very unprofitable, very hurtful thought patterns that in certain cases you were trained when you were very young to believe and they've been ingrained in you and created a result in your life to retrain those and, and I say this in the book too, God can fix in 30 seconds something that would take a counselor three years to get through. He's called, he's called the counselor, right? So he can literally rewire something that quickly as long as you're letting, willing to let him do it.

Jim: I'd like to offer up a suggestion for that exercise. Let's call that the Shrek exercise. Onions have layers, ogres have layers.

Martha: It's very good. You know, I mean, this is why people engage with you and come to your things because you, you do bring the awesome to the table first. And I think that, that says a lot and that's an encouragement to a lot of us, especially as we're looking at 2024, what can I do differently?

But I just want to point people to your website, which is just EdRush.com and we'll have that in the show notes. We'll have all that stuff in the notes to connect to you. But I just want to give, you know, people, they're going to want more than what we can deliver in this one podcast. So throwing that out there,

Jim: I mean, how many events do you got scheduled for 2024?

Ed Rush: Usually we do three to four events a year, depending on location, demand. Our next events in February in Phoenix, that's a very business events of wisdom for business events. So that's where you're going to be downloading business ideas. And by the way, the event, the events are - I have trainings that are very expensive and high level stuff. The events are usually very accessible as far as the, even in the, even the investment goes. So yeah, at edrush. com, there's a link at the top that has a link to our next event.

And the other website, by the way, is God Talks, easiest website to remember God Talks. com. When you go there, I created a series of audios. A lot of times people like to do the exercises in a guided format where you have your headphones on, close your eyes, sit and journal your answers about 20 minutes a day for seven days. Very simple to do. And those are available at GodTalks. com, which is the home plate for the book.

Jim: Ed Rush, we could do this for an hour. We could do it for five hours, but we're out of time. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for seeing your workplace as a mission field, as you're introducing thousands of people to God every year.

It's an honor to walk alongside you in this, and we're so grateful for your work, and we can't wait to hear more stories. Maybe one day you could bring us on location at one of those, and we can capture the stories live of what's going on right there in your conferences. That's an offer to you. And of course, if it's in a nice sunny place in the middle of winter, that of course would make it a bonus, but not necessary.

Ed Rush. Thanks for being on. iWork4Him today.

Ed Rush: Thank you, Jim and Martha. Thanks again for what you do in the world. I appreciate your ministry and your influence. It's really extraordinary.

Jim: Before we go, just want to invite you to check out our sponsors page. iWork4Him.com/sponsors

Check out our signature sponsors SaferNet and also patriotmobile. com We would love to have you honor those sponsors who honor you by helping support this ministry. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.​

1/10/24 - 2024: A Pastor with No Pulpit

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, as Christians, we get caught up with titles. In Christianity, we tend to celebrate the title of pastor, pastor's wife and missionary above all other titles. We, in fact, put the name pastor in front of the name of the person who preaches on Sunday.

No other profession does that, except for maybe doctor. I sold insurance for a number of years. Nobody said, hello, insurance agent Jim. They just called me Jim. I think however, instead of being caught up with the title, we should focus on the role. A pastor's role in a believer's life is very important. We all need a shepherd in our life.

Maybe more than one. Some of us are a little more difficult than others, but have you ever had a pressure washing pastor? Today we're going to talk with Joshua Brown from pressure washing pastor. com. Pressure washing pastor. com. We're going to hear his story and how he's training up pressure washing pastors nationwide.

Joshua Brown. Welcome to iWork4Him.

Joshua Brown: Yeah, that was a beautiful job. Well done. I love the introduction.

Jim: Tell us a bit of your growing up story and then we're going to hear your Jesus story.

Joshua Brown: Yeah, absolutely. First, thank you guys for even having me on with your viewers today and I'm honored to be here.

But with my story, it's a, it's a little bit of a long one. I know we only have a few minutes to, to maybe look at it, but for my story, I like to start off with my mom because it plays a huge role in who I am today. Is it okay if I start there? And so at the, at the age of two, my mom was adopted from Kalamazoo, Michigan into a house in Madison, Tennessee, which is right outside of Nashville. It's kind of a ghetto area in Nashville. There's a Hooters in her front yard, basically, and a Waffle House in her backyard, if you've ever been in that, that area. And some people when they're adopted, they have a great story with a mom and dad who love them that may have not been able to have kids, but my mom did not have such great luck.

Her mom was addicted to pain medication and alcohol, which, if you've ever met anyone that was in an addiction like that, it completely rewires who they are, where they're not even processing properly. And then her dad would go off to prison by the time she was 13 for the things he was doing to her inside the home.

So to say my mom had a tough upbringing is maybe even an understatement a little. And then by the time she's 15, she gets pregnant by a 21 year old. And when he finds out that she's pregnant, he tells my mom at 15, I'll pay for his abortion, but I won't be in his life.

I don't know why she made the decision. You know she made the hard decision. She said, okay, first, and then a week went by and she said, I can't kill this thing that's in me. She gave me life, and we grew up on the streets of Nashville, Tennessee. We lived in projects, government housing different dudes that she would live with.

We'd move around from place to place, cars, fellowship halls, different spots over the course of time. For whatever reason, today I'm a little bit emotional telling this story, so just bear with me. By the time I'm 17, I'm a drug dealer, pothead, high school dropout in Winston Salem, North Carolina which makes a lot of sense. When you don't have a father figure growing up, you really don't know who your identity is.

And when you grow up poor and on the streets, you usually get connected to the people who accept you or who you sit at their, their lunch table. And for me, it was you know, those who might listen to Dr. Dre, Eazy E, Snoop Dogg, N. W. A. Those were my mentors growing up. Gangsta rap music, things you probably haven't, you know, listened to a whole lot.

But for me, that was my, my community and my, my system of who I looked up to be. My mentors or father figures were people that were far away because I didn't have anybody nearby. And by the time I'm 19, I get in a really bad car wreck. I'm following a friend of mine. I'm about to smoke up before going into work.

I had a friend named Pookie. He, he was driving a 3000 TT Stealth, taking a left on a yellow light. And I followed him taking, running the red light, but there was also a, a Ford Ranger that ran the light from the other side. We met in the middle. Two wheels came off the car, looked like a banana. And it was inside of the neighbor's yard.

And I remember sitting on the corner, looking at my car. I denied medical attention. I had, you know, drugs in my system. And I remember just looking at my car and looking at the faces of people that were looking at my car. And they didn't know I was the guy that was in it. And from that moment, I believe God started speaking to me.

And it was, it was specifically inside of a Tupac Shakur song. A month or two months later, I would be driving around. And I would just have God reminding me of that image of that picture of this lady looking at my car and kind of just nodding her head. And this is what God was speaking to me. If I died in that car wreck, I was making an impact on nobody's life. My life was meaningless.

Within about a month or two, I end up showing up at the last night of what's called a revival service. I don't know if they have those anymore, but back in the day, you'd have week long revival services, and then you'd invite people that were far from God. And I showed up on the last night of revival, and I sat there in the back with my girlfriend.

And I heard the Lord speak to me. He didn't say that you're an idiot. He didn't say I'm a loser. He didn't say I was going to hell. The only thing he said was, Joshua, I love you. And at that moment, I looked at my girlfriend and I said, I wish the pastor would quit preaching, open up the altar, so I can give my life to Jesus.

And he finally quit, and he, opened up the altars, and I went down, gave the pastor my pot, and God my heart. And that was at 19 years of age. And that began the story of, of my journey. Went back to school, got a GED, pastoral ministries degree, Christian counseling, served for 22 years in the church.

About six years ago, opened up a side hustle. And that side hustle now has become my new ministry. So that's a quick overview, and I think I took up more time.

Martha: That's so powerful, because I can only imagine that we have listeners that, you know, they think, there's just so many questions that they ask about where they're at in life and to see what we're going to walk into this conversation together.

I want the listeners to stay tuned, but you've, you've shared very intimately where God brought you from and we're going to talk about what He has you doing now that is making such an impact. And, you know, I love that you, you know, you were questioning, you know, if you had died that day, What would the impact have been? And now, God is using you in a mighty way, and we're going to talk about that a little bit.

Jim: And I wanted to know what kind of car you were driving.

Joshua Brown: I had two vehicles at that time. I had a Jeep Cherokee and I had a Honda Prelude. And back in the day, Honda Preludes, especially for teenagers, were super cool. It had 5 percent tint, 4 tins, mids, tweets. It was dropped, and I was pretty much a gangster.

Jim: So that's what you were driving that day?

Joshua Brown: Mm hmm. A Honda Prelude, yeah.

Jim: Yeah, because if you'd have been that Jeep, you'd have rolled. You wouldn't have gotten bent in half. But the guy with the 3000 GT? Yeah, they were great cars.

But the story, I am grateful that you just took time to say, you know, Jim, I'm going to do it this way. Because every story is unique, but God specifically rescued you so that you could introduce Jesus in one of the most creative ways that we've uncovered in the country, and we're going to talk about that next.

But first, as we talk about 2024, we know that it's off to a great start. It's just begun, but we're excited for what God has in store for each one of us. And we're, and if you're ready to kickstart your year and focus on being transformed by God, I encourage you to get a copy of our book. iWork4Him.

In fact, with any size donation to iWork4Him, we'd love to send you a copy of the book for free. Go to iWork4Him.com/donate and put the book title in the notes when you donate. And thanks for joining the movement. We'd love to have you walk alongside us as we walk alongside thousands of others around the country.

Martha: So Joshua, you said that you were inside of the church for 22 years as a pastor. What transpired? Where did this idea come from for you, for a pressure washing pastor? And, and then how, how did that unfold?

Joshua Brown: Well, it's not as, as simple as like a, a letter in the mail or a phone call from God. I would say it would have been a journey.

My Ministry experience rolled from seven different churches over the course of that 22 year period. And although I had many good experiences, I want to keep in light the fact that I was a, a radical kid far from God who God saved. And I signed up. I basically went to the pastor when I was 19, and I said, I want to be discipled.

I didn't know that was the word, but I said, hey, what, what do I need to do now? Like, how can I live? And I didn't necessarily need to be sent to a Bible school, but it seems like that's what my journey landed me on. It was almost like you either go to Bible school or you become a missionary. And within a few months, I ended up teaching Sunday school class and then going to college and then I got hired. And so I think after 22 years of ministry I started to feel like I didn't sign up for small groups, service teams, attendance, tithes , events. And I have felt like - and I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with those things. I love the church. We're part of a great church - but it felt like for me that I was this radical kid that gave his life to Jesus, I just wanted to be a disciple so I could make disciples.

And I ended up finding myself just running events and programs and it just became, I didn't sign up for this. And I started thinking about how would I provide for my family if I wasn't inside ministry anymore? And so I actually Googled top five businesses to start for 5, 000 dollars or less. And I wasn't about to start taking pictures of people's cats, but

Jim: although you'll see now that if you'd have done that on Instagram, there are 5 million pictures and videos of people's cats.

Joshua Brown: Yeah, I would have been rich and doing it on my own, you know, if I did, but pressure washing was on there. And a friend of mine started a pressure washing company and he was, he was a pastor as well. And it was kind of like a side business for him. I went and worked with him for a half a day, and he made more money than I had ever seen in four hours - legally.

He made like 800 bucks in four hours, and I was like, dude, I've got to deliver pizzas and work for Uber, you know, all week to try to make 800 bucks. And so, that is where the pressure washing came in, is I was like, I can provide for my family through pressure washing if I wasn't in ministry. And so I started to test it and I opened up a side business in 2016 after church camp and we used high school students and some college kids and I just started growing the business. We did two hundred and twenty five thousand in 2017 over four the next, over seven hundred the next, and almost a million dollars in four years. And after four years, which took me to 2020 of December I ended up leaving vocational ministry. And at that time, I didn't know that I was still a pastor.

I left ministry thinking I was no longer a pastor. And so when you ask the question or your listeners say, Hey, pressure washing pastor? What's that? Well, I didn't know that there was a thing to be even called a pastor. I didn't know you could open up a business and be a pastor. I thought pastors were limited to the pulpit that you had to have an ordination or you had to go to college.

And it was, it was a journey. But six months after leaving ministry, I was in a secular venue. It was called the BBB, does not stand for Better Business Bureau. It stood for bourbon, BS, and business. I don't drink bourbon. I'm Nazarene background. I try to always tell the truth as best as I can.

But business was something that I needed all the help I could get because I didn't have a business background. I had a pastoral background. Well, inside that group, they ended up saying, Hey, that's the pressure washing pastor right there. So they nicknamed me. And when they said that, I said to myself, I didn't say it out loud. I'm not a pastor. I left ministry. I'm not a pastor anymore.

About a year, year and a half goes by. Last year, God said, Joshua, I want you to do for others what I've done for you. And I'm like, well, what does that look like? Well give them a brand, a blueprint and coaching and call ministers into the marketplace through pressure washing.

And then it's like, well, should I call it? Well, pressure washing pastor. And I'm like... that's weird, you know, but I started reading these books that were written by shepherds, pastors and I come to find out that pastoring is not a vocation, it's a calling that God puts on different people's lives.

And for many people, I believe we're all called to pastor in some sort, whether it's your, your spouse or your children or your family. It's like who's not called to guide, to lead, to protect, provide? Like, is that not the role of a shepherd? And so, for me, I came to the conclusion that who I was, was who I was, wherever I was.

And it didn't stop because I was no longer employed or working at a church, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

Jim: Oh, it makes a lot of sense. On this show, we talk about that all the time, Joshua. As we talk about there's no tiers in the kingdom. There's no special dispensation just for pastors and missionaries.

That we all have a calling. We all are on the same team. We're all on the same level in the kingdom, but we all got different giftings. And there's no biblical basis for, well, that's a long story in a very large soapbox, but to say that you've been given a pastoral spirit and you're now applying in the pressure washing industry is no different than somebody that used to pump gas at a gas station or somebody that digs ditches for the, you know, power lines.

If you've got a pastoral spirit, it applies no matter where you go. We met an air conditioning guy years ago who said, you know, I worked in a church for 25 years, but I do more ministry today as an air conditioning repair guy than I ever did within the four walls of the church. So it's fantastic that God released you and unleashed you on the marketplace.

Martha: And I love to hear how, I mean there's there's so much to your story. But you talked about the growth and how year over year you've seen it expand, and you know, that you're ministering to the people that are working with you and the people you are working for.

And a lot of companies, they set goals and they set missions of what they want to accomplish by the work that they do. There is a company that we love that has done just that, and that is Patriot Mobile. And they are the only Christian conservative cellular company with a focus on faith, family, and freedom.

And Jim and I actually recently switched to Patriot Mobile, and we have great coverage. And we love knowing that our monthly bill helps support our values. In fact, when you use PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him, you directly support the work of iWork4Him and you help more believers see their workplace as a mission field. So, listeners, I just want to encourage you today to switch today by going to PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him. That link will be in the show notes and you can know that your dollars are actually going to follow your values.

Jim: Same service, same towers. Usually less expensive, or at least equally, but your money is going to places that are making an impact.

Joshua, in this last segment of the show, really want to just take time to tell people how they can get involved. What the process is like to get involved with Pressure Washing Pastor. How they can become a Pressure Washing Pastor in their town. I mean, just, what's the process look like? I mean, you've been doing this now for a few years.

And you've just, you've just unleashed a few weeks ago, a video that talks about this. What's the process? Tell me, tell me where God's got you now heading into 2024.

Joshua Brown: So March of 2023 was the first time that we revealed that we're going to be turning this into a franchise or a licensing relationship. And so this is very new. And so I went to Exponential, which is a church planting growth conference in Orlando in March. And I put up a little booth and I was voted the most interesting looking booth there. It said, Pressure Washing Pastor and people would come and just stare at it. I wasn't, you know, selling children's curriculum.

I didn't have lights. It wasn't music. It wasn't anything that they were really used to seeing. But what was interesting is that the missionaries from other countries would come and say, this is normal in my country. That every pastor has a side hustle or a business. And so what I really feel like is that we need to call more people who love Jesus, mission minded, kingdom minded believers into the marketplace and use it for the purpose of creating jobs, making disciples and serving the city.

And so if anyone was interested in learning more, I've got a great video on up flip, which is a video that just came out in late 2023. That shares my story for Brown's pressure washing and then actually go to my website at pressure washing pastor dot com.

There, you can see a little bit of what we've done, what we're doing, and how you can get involved. And then there's an application, and our applications are very much like a church planter's assessment to decide whether or not someone would be a good candidate. And then we end up, you know, finding out that they're qualified to be able to open up in their city.

Martha: You know, I just love this concept. I've said for years to Jim that, you know, we send missionaries with the business as mission model, where they're going to go have a job and, you know, they're going to, they're evangelizing, but they're discreetly disguised as a you know, leather maker or a, whatever their job is, accountant, whatever it is.

And that's really what you're doing, is you're saying, I'm intentionally sending you out as a pastor under the outfit, under the equipment of a pressure washer with that mentality. And that is how each one of us should be actually approaching our each one of our jobs. But I love the intentionality behind that.

And I believe that there are listeners today that are saying, Huh, I could get behind this. I love this approach. And you really have nailed down what it takes to make it happen, having that kind of an application. That's more of the mindset and the character That's beautiful. So I love it.

Jim: Joshua, I got a couple questions So first of all, so pressure washing can be done when it's above freezing. Otherwise, you're creating snow Well, it's true. I tried it. You know, I mean, I've been on ski hills and that's what they do. They take a pressure washing head and put it on a big tall pole and they blow it out and it just creates snow.

So what do you do in the off season for those people that live in Northern climates?

Joshua Brown: Yeah, you can get creative and find some other services to offer. But when you're a farmer, it's good to sow in certain seasons and reap in other seasons. And so if you enjoy hunting, maybe you do some hunting, maybe you're recovering and resting a little bit, spending more time with your spouse, your kids, because In the warmer seasons you can be so busy that you don't have as much time or as much balance And so I like to use it for time of rest and recovery and then also planning for marketing and scaling and planning out your next, your next move as you grow and scale your company. And build relationships. Really the the whole concept of a pressure washing pastor is - It's not about the pressure washing.

It's about building relationships with your community that you're in so use the winter to join some different business groups or some community groups and get to know your property managers, contractors, real estate agents. That's what you do during that time.

Jim: You quit your job as a pastor to go work in the marketplace to support your family.

Most people in the marketplace think they need to quit their job so that they can have significance in the kingdom, so they could go work in ministry. Talk to those people who think they need to quit their job, so their job makes a difference.

Joshua Brown: Yeah, whether you need to quit your job or not might be a different question, but when you think about an impact, I want to point you to maybe two or three different pieces of Scripture.

One of them is in 2nd Corinthians 5 18, where it says that those who have been bought by the blood of Christ or have been reconciled by the blood to God through Jesus has entered into a ministry of reconciliation where it's as if God is making an appeal through us to others to be reconciled to God and he's given this ministry of Reconciliation. Check it out there and just spend some time between 18 and 21 of 2 Corinthians chapter 5.

It's a beautiful piece of scripture that basically says that anybody that's been reconciled to Christ is now called to be a minister. It's not limited to a role or to a document or a piece of paper or to an organization. It is a, it is a imputed upon us as those that have been called children of God.

And then I want you to think about when Jesus was, was looking at his disciples on the shore. and they're inside of a boat and they're trying to catch some fish and Jesus ends up yelling out and saying, hey, throw your nets on the other side of the boat. There's a lot of churches out there catching a lot of fish and some of them aren't catching any fish anymore.

Why don't we start throwing our nets inside of our community, inside of our jobs and start catching fish in other places? Instead of just always thinking that it's limited to a church. And so you can do it, spend some time in the Word and you'll see that God wants to use you right where you are, not necessarily where you have to go get ordained or start teaching a Sunday school class, which those things are excellent to do, but man - to live out a missionary lifestyle seems like it's the whole point of being saved to begin with.

And I wish someone would have told me that at the beginning, is that I could be a business owner. I could be a teacher. I could, I could be a janitor and be a pastor. It doesn't, it's not limited. It's a calling. It's a ministry that God has given us to reconcile all things underneath the lordship of Jesus Christ.

Jim: I love that. But God showed you. Yeah. You know, the great commission we've, we've had it interpreted in English, translated in English to go ye, therefore, or however you wanna put it, it's always go. Whereas in the actual Greek, it means as you go and you have figured that out with pressure washing pastor.com as you go, pressure washing pastor.

Pastor your community. Joshua Brown, thank you so much for bringing PressureWashingPastor. com to iWork4Him, for sharing your story, and for inspiring thousands of future pressure washers to come serve the Lord through cleaning up their city. Love it, Joshua. Thank you.

Joshua Brown: Amen. Thank you for having me as your guest.

Jim: You know, there's so many wonderful believers out there living out their faith and work and creating podcasts to share their stories. How do you find them? Go to one place, awakenpodcastnetwork. com, awakenpodcastnetwork. com. Check out the network that we've created to make this easy for you to find faith and work podcasts all in one place.

Over 150 podcasts gathered in one place. And to subscribe to some new podcasts for you to listen to in 2024. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him. ​

1/3/24 - 2023: Making God Your CEO

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. So what does that look like in your world? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: For the last 10 and a half years, this show has been called iWork4Him. It's all about making that paradigm shift from thinking that you need to quit your job so you can go work in a full time ministry, to recognizing the fact that God loves your work. And he puts you there on purpose and he doesn't want you to quit your job to go to full time ministry because you are already in a place of full time ministry.

Oh, please help us! A mission field full of lost and hopeless people. That's what your workplace is. But at some point in time, we need to continue the paradigm shift. We need to take it to the next level. To move from iWork4Him to more of a supernatural experience in our workplace. More like I work with him.

You see, God loves our work and he wants to be involved in our work. He showed that reality in the garden when he asked Adam to name all the animals, but in order to do so, God brought the animals to Adam. They worked together. Adam worked with God. So what does that look like in your business? I think it looks like transforming your business into an expression of God's kingdom.

What does that really mean? I am super glad you asked. Today, Peter Lawry joins us from New Zealand. That's right. The other end it's actually tomorrow when we're recording this and that just should blow your mind, but it doesn't he's written a book and teaches seminars all the time about when Jesus calls transforming businesses into expressions of God's kingdom. Peter, welcome to iWork4Him.

Peter Lawry: What an introduction. Thank you so much. I sound like a super expert when you do it that way. And you mentioned your workplaces are full of broken people, and to be honest, we're all broken people, aren't we? We're just disciples on a journey following Jesus.

Martha: Yes. Yeah. So even if we work alone, it's a workplace full of broken people. So, I mean, we're not saying we're not broken, so definitely that is the case.

Jim: All right. So before we talk about transforming businesses into kingdom businesses, can you tell us some of your Jesus story?

Peter Lawry: Sure. Let's try and summarize this for you. So you can tell by my accent, I originally came from England.

I was born to English parents, born overseas in Kenya. I, I gave my life to Christ personally. I was brought up in a Christian home, but gave my life to Christ personally just after we shifted back to England when I was seven years old having been in Hong Kong in the meantime. I went away to boarding school just jumping ahead at the age of, of 13 because my parents went overseas again.

And through that time, I had to try and find a way to work at my faith in a really, really aggressive kind of environment, an anti environment. And at the age of 16, I heard that a friend of mine had gone back to Hong Kong to live there, had been so called baptized in the Holy Spirit. And I had no idea what that was, but whatever it was, I wanted it.

So I got down on my knees in my study, prayed for God to baptize me in the Spirit, and suddenly I just had this overwhelming sense of God's presence. So those are the two real major landmarks that launched my business, launched my life off in God. I found myself speaking in tongues. I'd never heard of anybody who had done before.

That just was what came with the package. However, let's move on from there. So I traveled through so many churches in my background. I was brought up in a Methodist church in England. I've been through American Southern Baptist Missionary Church over in Bangladesh. I have actually worshipped with some Quakers at different times, worked in ecumenical churches, Episcopal churches, blimey, where haven't I been?

I don't know. Anyway, finally through my time at university with a crowd of university friends, we had just spent a whole year praying to God every morning, and we ended up forming a church. So that was a fully independent charismatic church that grew to 250 by the end of the year.

Where do I go on from there? To back to the south of England to a church there where I started to learn things in the spirit. I've been prophesying, by the way, since I was 16, and that's been part of my journey too. Anyway, ultimately over to New Zealand and here I've been through an Anglican church and we're in Baptist churches here, which I have to say - nothing like the American Baptist churches. But yeah a real kind of background of everything.

Jim: You've experienced God in lots of different flavors. Love that But really we all experience God differently and denominations were man's idea not Jesus'.

Peter Lawry: absolutely, right.

Martha: And all of this moving around, which gave you different exposure, I assume is part of also your work journey. You have had worked in multiple different industries and had at least three different career changes. So why don't you outline your career just a little bit? So we can kind of see how that lines up.

Peter Lawry: Sure. So yeah, you're absolutely right. Multiple changes. So I, I started, my university degree was in anthropology, which was such fun, but, but designed nothing for the workplace. So I'd find something to do. I'd always wanted to be a doctor, but never got the grade.

So a friend of mine said, well, he was going nursing. So I became a nurse and I did that for five years. By the end of which stage I was married, I had a child and realize it wasn't going to support us for life. Went to a careers advisor and said, you should go and be an accountant and a real apologies to accountants who are listening.

But my first reaction was seriously, am I that boring? However, he said, no, it's not boring. It's about the fact, Peter, that accountancy is moving forward. It'll help you travel. So I went through that career change. I then actually ran five different businesses of my own and ultimately ended up going back into work for a while as an accountant and that led me into consultancy and so I worked as a as a business consultant through new zealand but through 14 different industries along that journey, too.

Jim: Well, you know, why not? Well, I mean, how do you, how can you be a consultant if you don't have a wide range of experience? All right. So at what point in time, Peter, did God intersect your career and transform it by intersecting your faith and your work? At what point in time did those two become one?

Peter Lawry: Right. So in some respects, that whole journey has been going on the whole time.

But there was a real marker point about seven years ago when I had just moved into the consulting business and an amazing 80 year old prayer friend of mine, who is a prayer warrior, asked me in church one day, I was two weeks in and he said, Peter, how's your business going? Or how's the business going? Actually was his phrase.

I said, Oh, it's great. And I described what was happening. There was a new client coming my way, but I said, you know, I can see it's already getting really busy. And I would so value your prayers that I don't start to lose touch with God in the way that I've developed over the last year while I've been waiting for this to happen.

I don't want my business to take away from that relationship. And he looked me straight in the eyes and he said, Peter, that's the wrong, that's the wrong statement. And I couldn't work out what I'd said was wrong. What have I, what have I said? And he said, what if it's not your business? What if you make God your CEO and you simply become his employee? Nothing more.

And for me, there was an instant kind of paradigm shift, you know, one of those moments in your life when everything changes, your mind seems to do a somersault, and I suddenly thought, my goodness, if that's possible, if that's genuinely possible, everything changes. The whole game changes. The foundations on which we build change. The way the outcomes we expect change. The pressure comes off me, it goes onto his shoulders, and I simply follow in his footsteps. So that was about seven years ago.

Jim: Well, I love the fact that you're not very excited about it, but I mean, you talk about earth shatter? I mean, really what you just - as I said, in the, in the opening - you went from iWork4Him to, you said, I want to work with him. Yeah. And that's at that point where you really ran into that, wasn't it? I mean, how was it different?

Peter Lawry: So put it this way. I began to realize most of us, most of us work from this perspective or kind of come from the perspective of, well, I am a Christian. I need to take that in the workplace. I want to express that I've got to do things his way. So we're looking for principles to apply.

The problem with principles is the moment we have principles, you know, okay, so what would Jesus do tends to be the question that we asked there. What would Jesus do in this circumstance? And what we're looking for is the principle. The challenge is when we think we've got the principle, we can actually say ah, fantastic, thanks God. Right, you can go sit on the bleachers for a while now, because now we know what you want us to do.

We don't need you anymore, we can do it for you. Whereas actually, the invitation of Jesus to every disciple universally, and it goes on and on and on, is simply, follow me. And if we're going to take that seriously, we get to the point where we say, Oh, okay. So, actually, you don't want me to do this for you, on behalf of you. You actually want to be actively involved. So, to do things with him is to say, genuinely, he understands business better than I do. In fact, he even invented business and started to develop some of our early patriarchs of the faith into business.

It's his game. He knows it far better than us. And, actually, if we let him take the lead and we simply follow him in that, evereything changes. And yes, it's genuinely possible.

Jim: I love that. You know, God showed us a way we were focusing on working with him when he called us to write our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him.

We couldn't find a single publisher that had ever launched three books at one time but we knew God wanted us to do it that way. So we literally birthed a triplet of books through God's strength and design and not our own. We love that each of the 52 contributors recorded their own chapter for the audio version. We've got 52 different voices.

It could also be purchased in paperback or as a PDF. For any size donation to iWork4Him, we're going to mail you a paperback copy of the title of your choice. Just go to iWork4Him.com/donate and become a part of the iWork4Him support team.

Martha: You know, this conversation is so near and dear to us, but I love the fresh perspective and the fresh accent doesn't hurt either, you know, makes it

Jim: It's funny though. He thought our audience could tell you were from England instead of New Zealand. That that's pretty funny. Cause I'm sure there's like,

Martha: they just know that you're across the pond somewhere, right? But, but no, we're so grateful to be having this conversation with Peter. And I just want to ask you, does God actually like Business?

Peter Lawry: Oh, yeah, great question. Does he like it? Yes, as I said before, this is his idea. I mean, go back into the Old Testament when he calls Abraham to follow him. Now, bear in mind, there is no scripture at this stage. Abraham is working entirely on experience, and he's called, just Go. Pick up the camels, the tent, the wife, the donkeys, the slaves, the everything, and go.

Where to God? Well, to the land I'm showing you. You don't need to know, just come on the journey. But as he goes on the journey, God begins to multiply his herds, begins to grant him favor, begins to take him forward. Moving on to Isaac, his son, we get to the point where during the course of a single year, God doubles his flocks.

You'll see that in Genesis, moving into the realms of people like Joseph. And these are just the early people in our faith story. You know, we see Joseph, Nebuchadnezzar given a vision that he needs to prepare for his people and God gives that business mind, the entrepreneurial mind to Joseph to move forward. I'm deeply believing that business is not a construct of the world. It's not something we've developed in the commercial world or the capitalist world. It's actually the very heart of God to bring people together.

Jim: Okay. Okay. I got to stop you there. Okay. First, Joseph. Okay. Joseph worked for Pharaoh, Daniel worked for Nebuchadnezzar so we gotta make sure we get that clarification out there. But business..

Peter Lawry: Oh, sorry!

Jim: No, that's fine. That's fine. It it's early in the day there tomorrow. Alright, so, but but I want you to clarify 'cause you're bringing up Abraham and you're bringing up Isaac and you're bringing up Joseph.

I said the question Martha asked Peter, answer the question, does God like business? And what does that have to do with those guys?

Peter Lawry: So, so the business is so you floored me.

Jim: I did I gotcha! Because abraham was such a huge business owner, he had to have 300 armed guards. These guys had monster business enterprises and we don't ever hear that way. We don't we think of them as a patriarch but they had big business and that's why you went there. Of course that's why you went there, Right?

Martha: It is. But you know, I think so many of us, when we read the scriptures, for whatever reason, we filter that out and we just think, they were just going about their life and this is all the things that were happening. But really, what were they doing? They were conducting business.

So we have all these examples, and I love the fact that you said that, you know, Abraham was doing all this without scripture, right? He was setting the pace so it could be written for us to learn from. If God was allowing all of those biblical people to be running businesses, and we take from that that God likes business, then what is this term, what does it mean to be a kingdom business?

Peter Lawry: Yeah, okay. It's a good point. So a kingdom business for me, this is how I begin to define it, is that a kingdom business is different from a Christian business. I deliberately make that transaction in my own mind. So for me, a Christian business is any business that's run by a Christian. So usually those businesses are commercial on their bottom line.

They're looking for, their starting point is we get what business is, is is. We've worked in them. Our parents worked in them. We own one. We understand that. Now, how do I bring my Christianity to that?

Whereas for me, a kingdom business is a business founded absolutely rock solid on the foundation of Jesus Christ. And that comes out of 1 Corinthians where Paul says, no one can build on a foundation other than the one that's already been laid, which is Jesus. So kingdom business is the business that is starts from a different foundation, allows God to take the lead, allows him to be the CEO and enters into this journey of faith, which frankly is quite frightening because suddenly the rule books out the window.

And we're moving from a different perspective. So it's allowing the kingdom of God to invade earth, just as Jesus said to his disciples, tell them that the kingdom has come. So we have to show that the kingdom has come and a business that operates in the kingdom will do that in the commercial world.

Jim: We often say on the show that as a Jesus follower, everything about you should be changing and everyone around you should be benefiting from your faith, whether they believe in Jesus or not. That's the kingdom. Is that, in effect, what a kingdom business does? That everybody, everybody's being blessed by that business, whether they believe in the kingdom or not?

Peter Lawry: Absolutely. And we take this right back to the Lord's prayer. You know. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come on earth exactly as it is in heaven.

So if the Father's heart is to bring kingdom to the earth, then just as when Jesus walked straight into the marketplaces of his day, which were, if you like, from a, a kind of a spiritual perspective, they were quite secular. I mean, they were filled with religion. Yes. And they were filled with the law and understandings of the scriptures, which were wrong, by the way, because Jesus had to reinterpret most of them.

But he, he brought into the spaces of people who just were everyday people the kingdom of God, healing broke in, deliverance broke in, miracles broke in, wisdom broke in, deals broke in. You know, you remember when Peter was out fishing and Jesus said, Peter, put your nets out on the other side. And he had the biggest catch of his life.

I mean, this is God involved in business in a big way. 60 percent of his parables actually relate to finance, business and investment. Extraordinary.

Martha: Another way we know that God likes business, because He knows that we are all going to be involved in it in one way or another, right? Even, even back at the, at the, you know, in the time of Christ, there had to be a marketplace. People had to trade and get things.

Jim: You bet. So you mentioned earlier. That somebody challenged you to make God your CEO. Yeah, there's one guy here in the United States. Guy's name was Stanley Tam who back in the 60s wrote a book: God Owns My Business and talked about the day he made God his CEO. But I'd love to hear it from you. What does it look like to make God your CEO?

Peter Lawry: So this is where it really begins to get exciting because we start to see God to step into that commercial arena and genuinely start to take lead. So for me personally, let me give you three experiences. When I was working as a consultant, I tended to work with only a few people at a time, maybe six people at a time and work very intensively.

And now for some reason, they all came in in batches and they left in batches. And I have no idea why that happened. But the first time it happened, a batch of three left. And so my business halved in effect and I, I said, God, okay, what do we do now? So straight back to him, that's my perspective. So that's my responsibility is Lord, what, what is on your heart?

What do you want me to do now? And on that occasion, he said to me, Peter, don't do anything. I've got something coming for you. So, I had gained my first clients through door knocking, through a telemarketer. He said, just wait. Now within six weeks, I had five referrals and this was early business stage.

Interestingly, that's never happened at that speed at any time since then. And out of those five referrals, I got another three clients. Now the next time it happened, I lost three clients. Lord, what are we doing now? And he said, There is another journey coming. Wait for a moment. Now, at that particular point, there was someone in our organization I didn't know became very unwell.

And I admit this is very much at his disadvantage. But I was asked to pick up his three clients that he had closest to me. So again, God knew what was needed. Third time it happened, Lord, what is it you want me to do now? You know, what's my role? He said, well, just do what any consultant would do. Use a telemarketer.

So those are three just really interesting things. And you see there, there's no, with God, the plan is. Listen, hear, obey, okay? Whereas, that's the strategy that sits behind it. The actual battle plan in each occasion was completely different. And we see that all the time with the armies of Israel as well.

Exactly the same thing. The strategy was always, come to me, listen, hear, respond to what I say, obey what I say, and I will do the work for you. Or I'll ask you to do it for me. So that's just one area in which it can be there. But it can be in finances, it can be in staffing, it can be in just every area of our business.

He takes control.

Jim: But you said God told you to wait. You're a business guy. WAiting means doing nothing.

Peter Lawry: That's a really good, that's a really good question. Now, there's a difference between passive waiting and active waiting.

Jim: Ooh, what do you mean?

Peter Lawry: So passive waiting is, I'll just go sit on the couch and eat my chips and watch the TV and just, you know, God will come along. And we all know that story of the person waiting on the top of the roof of their house and a storm and a boat comes along. No, no, no, I don't need rescuing, God's going to rescue me. That's really passive waiting. You know, sometimes I'm just sitting here. I'm not involved at all. You know, I have no responsibility.

Active waiting is an attitude of abiding in him. And we get this out of John 15. So John 15, Jesus says, if you abide in me and my words abide in you, you will bear much fruit. Now put that into a business context for a moment, because If fruit bearing is inevitable, and I would claim that it is from that verse, , it's inevitable if we fulfill the if clauses of Jesus and there are plenty of them.

So if we abide in him, that sounds really active to me. Abiding is a living space. It's a, it's a space of activity. It's a space of permanence, but it's a space of kind of activity in a restful state. And we see this in the life of Jesus. Every morning off on his own. That time with his father, I believe, was his home space.

And out of that he went to work. So learning to wait is just that, is that active stage of, Lord, I'm here, I'm listening, I'm waiting, I'm wanting, what changes do I need to make? Is there anything in me you need to deal with?

Jim: I would tell you that that is a concept that Martha and I are learning right now. Waiting as an action verb in the kingdom. It's not something I'd ever heard preached before. That that kind of waiting was an action verb. Very, very difficult as a business person. Just sit and wait and abide and focus instead of do, do, do, do, pick up the phone, go make the phone calls. I mean, it's incredible, but great words. Thank you.

Peter Lawry: It seems counterintuitive, doesn't it? Totally counterintuitive.

Jim: Right, but that's God's style. He's counterintuitive.

Peter Lawry: Exactly. The upside down kingdom. Hey, the first come last, the last come first. The person who gave the smallest coin got the greatest accolade in scripture for her giving everything. I mean, this is God. The rules change.

Martha: You know, you said something that really made me stop and think about it for a minute because you were talking about how each time God gave you a different action plan, right? So many people think that if I'm going to make God in charge, if I'm going to make him, let him, allow him to be the CEO, then I'm just going to sit back and he's going to take care of everything.

I think people don't think that there's more than one option, and God has a lot of ways that he can work. And we need to be listening. Like you said, you know, I heard - he told me I need to do this or I need to do that or I need to wait because something's coming. And so I just think that's a key thing to really relate to, especially as we're looking at the new year.

Somebody said to me to just today that most of us live life like rest is a reward. And it really struck me because it's like, I think that's, I never have articulated that way, but I think this resting in, this waiting on God, you know, we think we're supposed to just be passive. And it's so much more than that.

It's leaning into him and listening and being actively involved in what he has to say. So I hope that people kind of, that gets them thinking and listening a little bit more. And I just want to let all the listeners know that we are going to have a link in the show notes for Peter's book, When Jesus Calls, because this is, Jim, you've read the book. What do you want to say about it?

Jim: I summarize in my open. It's shifting that mindset from iWork4Him to I work with him. I mean, it really is. I, I want to hit this and we're just.. Listeners, most of our podcasts go 24 minutes. I knew today would be impossible to do 24 minutes because we're already 24 minutes in. We've got another probably 10 minutes left. So if you want to listen to us in two parts, just go ahead, keep listening. You could pause this and come back. All right, Peter, in your perspective, because a lot of most believers listening to this show today have never heard this sermon. What is the purpose of business here on earth? Doesn't really have a kingdom purpose?

Peter Lawry: Yeah. Yeah. And a really good, that's a really good question. And look, there's nowhere in Scripture that says, you know, this is what I think business is, thus says the Lord. Just as, interestingly, there is no one place in Scripture we can go to, no one place that says God is a Trinity.

We, we, you know, we pull this through the scriptures because of what comes out of them for us. And in the same way, when you look at the way that God engages with people right the way through from the patriarchs, the ancient patriarchs, through to, through to the disciples and through even into the work of Paul, who's, who's very happily working in business and funding his, his own mission out of that as well.

This is what I, this is how I kind of have distilled all that, is that Business is fundamentally not something that the commercial world has put together. Not originally. Actually, kingdom business and, and business with God is God's design to bring groups of people together so that they develop resources, which He, not us, will then apply into His kingdom for his work.

Jim: We did a series and it's that the business will be a blessing to the owner and his family, the employees, the vendors, the customers, in the community that the business operates in, whatever that community looks like. And when it's not doing those things, something's off.

Peter Lawry: And even beyond the community we live in. You know, there is a blessing that flows out. Drop the pebble in the pond, the ripples will go.

Martha: Mm hmm. You know, we love talking about this whole concept of kingdom purpose, and Patriot Mobile sure knows their purpose, and it's all about faith, family, and freedom.

Actually an organization that was founded, like you were talking about, on those principles. So Jim and I, as we use Patriot Mobile for our mobile service, are getting reliable coverage and support for our conservative beliefs. In fact, if you use Patriot Mobile -

Jim: Conservative and Christian beliefs!

Martha: Yes. Yes, both. Both. And, and if you use patriotmobile.com/iWork4Him, you actually help support the work of iWork4Him as we equip workplace believers to see their workplace as a mission field. So I encourage you to switch today to patriotmobile.com/iWork4Him.

Jim: All right, so when a business transforms into expression of god's kingdom. Yeah, what I would, and I believe you, would call a kingdom business, give us just a short list of defining features.

Peter Lawry: Wow. Okay. So, so, that there's a whole lot here that you could probably pick up better with, from, actually from my book. There's a chapter there that's based on the call. What is a call? And there are defining issues for me in every, any call, including the call of Jesus Christ. And they stand out as, you know, first, the knowledge of the call. Secondly, operating by faith. Thirdly, the surrender and obedience of the business owner.

That's a biggie for us. That's not something we talk about in business. language at all. Secondly is, is adopting the character of the kingdom, which is actually the character of Jesus himself, rather than adopting the character of commercial business and operating from there. There are just a whole series of things that will change.

Let me give you this as an example. So one of the things you hear, often hear businesses say is, you know, our staff are our best assets. And where that leads me is, well, for one off, an asset is a consumable item that gets consumed in the process of you developing income. I don't believe that's how God sees people.

All right, that's one. The other big one that they use, and it's real falsehood, is our business is one big family. And I think, well, hang on, family is not got rid of the moment your profits go down. Family is not got rid of when they become unwell. So don't use that word about business. You know, business does have its own, its own parameters.

It's not intended to be wholeheartedly working on the same arena as a domestic family, but it still operates under the Lordship of Jesus, which means people do come first. Well, he comes first, then the people come before the profits. And you see, I suppose my perspective here is that when we start to introduce the kingdom and we let the king be the king in our business, i. e. our CEO, then he undertakes to make sure that the profits happen. That also will be part of the inevitable fruit that we gain. Because he understands business.

Jim: And again, just a reminder, we're talking to Peter Lawry, who wrote this book. He's from New Zealand. I'm not sure I'm saying his last name right. Just say it for everybody. How do you say your last name?

Peter Lawry: Okay, so the LAW would say as law.

Jim: It's Law-ry , Laurie. So Laurie, yeah, that's cool. So in America, be Lowry. So just, just say, Lowry, Lawry, whatever. He wrote this incredible book. We can get it on Amazon.

Peter Lawry: I answer to a lot.

Jim: Just Peter or Hey you. When Jesus Calls: Transforming Businesses into Expressions of God's Kingdom, get a copy on Amazon.

Peter cannot send you a free copy for yourself from New Zealand unless you make a free donation of a thousand dollars to iWork4Him, then I'll help him pay for it. All right, I want to close up our conversation just really quick answer this one really quick - running a business with God. Is it really possible? Is it really possible to involve God in the details of running a business?

Peter Lawry: Yep, it is. I have a group that we, that actually came to me and asked, can we go through the chapters of your book and work out how we apply this in business? And through the course of that, we have just seen God operate. The other thing that you will find is when you read that book, I interviewed people from all over the English speaking world, and every chapter other than the first three introductory chapters, every chapter has their testimonies, their stories that I gained before I even wrote the book. God is already at work in the world operating through business.

Jim: And I'm glad you put that up because I grabbed one of those quotes from Al Whitmore Pryor. He says in your book, "if you're anointed for business, God will put things on you. You will have to be willing to go where it's deeply uncomfortable." That's just following Jesus. "That's what a life of faith and surrender does. It calls you out onto the waters to walk where others won't." I thought if you're willing to follow God and work with him in your business, things would be easier, not uncomfortable. What do you think Al meant by that?

Peter Lawry: What's the best way to answer this? Look at the life, look at the personal life of Jesus. Did he make things easier for some people? In some circumstances, yes, he did. What did he walk through himself, though, as the one who is the example of the king in the kingdom? He was not only the one who broke the prison bars for people and set captives free.

He was also known as the man of sorrows. He was acquainted with grief. He walked through in steps of obedience and that obedience made demands on him and his time so that God's kingdom was established on earth. So this is not us focused. It is Jesus focused. That's what a kingdom business has to be. If we go back in the middle again, guess what?

We're just going to start to build it around ourselves and it will just become another business out there looking a little bit like most commercial businesses, trying to do some good in the world, but actually impacting the world dramatically with the kingdom? You've lost your battle before you start. God needs to be in the center, not us.

Martha: So, two things. One is, I love that you said, you know, these testimonies that you've put in the book, these stories, are already, were already happening, and we know that we can't refute them. Right? So those are experiences that people had, and I love that you've documented it for other people to be encouraged by and challenged by.

But if we're speaking of this dramatic, you know things that can happen, let's talk about kind of the elephant in the room. What about the supernatural? Can the business really usher in supernatural circumstances?

Peter Lawry: Well, let's ground this in scripture and ground this in the life of Jesus before we put practicals.

I've already mentioned the fish with Peter. There was another another time when Jesus and Peter had to pay tax. What happened there? Peter, go catch a fish. In its mouth you'll find a coin. What about when Jesus talks about the fact that if you're faithful in small things, I will put you in charge of many cities?

I mean, small faithfulness in business arenas will grow into other things. So the miraculous in business - Absolutely. So things like the drawing together of a business deal at the moment that it's needed. I'll give you a real live example as well. Not that long ago, I was, I was driving home one day and God said to me, Peter, I want you to contact somebody you know in business. And share this thought with him.

And I thought, yeah, okay, well, I'm driving. No, do it now. So I pulled over, I got out my phone and I actually texted him and I said, look, I'm sorry, forgive me, this is right off the wall, but I believe that you are facing a really sizable contract at the present stage.

God says there are going to be fishhooks in it. He's not saying avoid it. But if you actually walk carefully with him through this, he will show you the way through. He was on the phone in two minutes saying, I've got a contract on my desk. It's one of the largest we've done, not the largest, but one of the largest.

It's in a fishing town, so the fishhooks in there really resonated with me and I'm going right back through that contract now in order to you know, redesign it, re look at it. Have I got everything there that I need to do? God knows you! God loves you! Why wouldn't he want to be involved in your business just like he is in your marriage?

What's the difference to him? We make it different and it shouldn't be. There is no Sunday and Monday divide. God is, is, is wanting to be just as much the God of the scriptures, the God of truth, the God of the miraculous in your business as anywhere else.

Jim: I love it. No problem with passion here on iWork4Him.

Peter, he went and found, he found some things in that contract that needed to be ironed out. Didn't he? He found some things that were in there that needed to be addressed.

Peter Lawry: Well, he addressed the figures. He bolstered the figures. He actually said, one of those, one of those fish hooks has already come in. We've already seen something that's happening. So I'm going through, I'll pad out the figures again. We'll go back with a higher bid than I was going to. And it's given him the leeway the project is now working. There are some challenges on site, but because he was forewarned, he's absolutely on top of the project. So now he's working more actively in it and ironing out the problems as they come. And they're now sailing through.

Martha: You know, and, and also, it makes a testimony for you because you actually walked in obedience to what you heard and you made the call or the text, you know, and got his attention and said, what is, I don't know, I just, there's so much power in your part of that story because you took that step of obedience.

So how do people get in touch with you and the work that you are doing in the marketplace?

Peter Lawry: So I have a website, like everybody has a website, which is good business practice as a starting point. Yeah. So it's, it's www.business-as-mission.com, and there's a contact form on there. If you read the back, if you actually get a copy of the book there are links on the back of there, there's email addresses. There's the website.

Martha: Jim is showing it on video in case you're only listening to it, but we will have all of that in the show notes for everybody. So you don't have to write it down while you're driving or pull over or anything.

Jim: I gotta do an interpretation though. Business dash mission, business dash as dash mission dot com.

Martha: And that will be in the show notes, so to keep it easy. We're grateful there is a way for you to get in touch with Peter and continue this conversation and, and take advantage of this wonderful book that you have taken the time to write with God as your CEO in the, in the driver's seat.

Jim: Peter, thank you. Thank you so much for being with us on iWork4Him today.

Peter Lawry: It's been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

12/27/23 - 2022: iWork WITH Him

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: I think we need to start with: Happy New Year! You know, every new year comes with a great promise. The promise of a fresh perspective, and the promise of fresh, resolute, new patterns in our life. New Year's has a magic about it. Even though it's just another day on the calendar, it's the beginning of a whole new year.

And it seems like, as the years fly by, each year has a theme of its own for iWork4Him. The theme for 2024 is moving from, iWork4Him to I work with him. What does that mean? And what does that look like? Martha and I are going to talk about that today together as we celebrate what God did in 2023 and look forward to what God is going to do in 2024.

Welcome to the new year show. iWork4Him style. So Martha, as we come to the end of another year, it always causes us to look back at what happened this year. So You first, because it's always appropriate for ladies to be first. What was your highlight moment or moments of the year?

Martha: I think for me, the biggest highlight overall was being able to have the ability to finish the building project that you and I've been working on, and it's called Central Place. And we rehabbed a 140 year old building, and to celebrate it with a ribbon cutting, and just really dedicate this space. I mean, all along, that was, that was our goal, and our, just our All of the work that we do, we dedicate it to the Lord, but just saying, okay, now it's, we're on the other side of that. And what do you get, what do you have in store?

Jim: And even as we speak, I mean, the project isn't really ever done.

Martha: I know that's why I hesitated to say that word, but it's complete.

Jim: As we're recording this show. The final cement parking block just got delivered for our parking lot because for some reason this parking lot had five cement blocks, but you can park eight cars here and and of course, because that's what they had.

But now we have new parking blocks. So if you come to visit us here in Southwest Missouri, you're always welcome. And we'd love to have, we'd love to give you a tour. We've had many people. We've already have five or six people from around the country stop in and visit.

Martha: So, Jim, what is one of your highlights for this year?

Jim: Oh, a highlight for this year. I gotta tell you, my favorite thing about being here at Marionville has been the nights we spent on our front deck that you made me build on our house. But really, the highlight was getting this building done, but it has been how the community has embraced it. And we have had so many different people come and visit us from all across the country, from California, from Colorado Springs, from Northwest Arkansas.

I can't even think of all the different places, but just to be able to use the building to greet others, it is a meeting place. We've had the community meetings. We've had 10 or 15 community meetings in our building already and that's just a highlight to be able to. That's a lot of highlights. Sorry, so the number one highlight.

Martha: No, that's okay. You did good.

Jim: How about the number one highlight for the year? Has been being married to you.

Martha: Oh you're so sweet. Okay. So what's your least favorite moment of the year as long as you're reminiscing? Do you have a least favorite?

Jim: I don't think I can mention anything on the air, my least favorite moments.

I really don't. I mean, it's been a good year. Being, we have really loved being here in Marionville, Missouri. We haven't had to drive as many miles this year. I don't know that I have a least favorite moment. I really don't. Do you?

Martha: I think the same thing. I think there's been a lot of hard moments. But not least favorite, because I think one of the places I know where God has us right now is we're taking those moments and trying to learn from them. So as opposed to being like, I mean, there's a lot of hard things that go on in life. And yes, we don't necessarily want to repeat them. To, to quantify him that way and to, I don't know why I - maybe you shouldn't have written that question, (laughter)

but that's okay because I think there are a lot of people right now listening that you may have a least favorite moment, something hard that happened in this year that you would wish wouldn't have, or that you could forget, but I think one of the things that I would like you to hear is let's learn from them and move on.

You know, I probably could say like my least favorite moment was losing my dad. But at the same time, we have spent so much time this year reminiscing about the godly man that he gave us as a as a memory. And that the fact that he gets to be on the streets of gold right now, you know, it's like we knew that time would come in life and and I'm so grateful for all that he gave us. And so even his passing gave us a lot of beautiful things.

Jim: And constantly constantly giving us beautiful things and the fact that we got to interview Martha's dad Ted Hains right before he died and that will go down. And and he got to participate in his last board meeting just days before he died, a couple of weeks before he died. And we were able to say goodbye and say hey When you get up there, don't forget to be interceding for us. Cause we need lots of prayer down here. So don't be forgetting about us. And I know he wouldn't.

But I would say what will I remember 2023 for? Well, of course the passing of your dad, but really the jealousy. I'm like, okay, Ted, now you're on the other side. So don't forget about us. But also moving my parents back in our backyard.

I mean, we, we've had the opportunity to be caregivers for our folks and in lots of different ways, all of our parents and now our parents are in our backyard. And that is good because I don't have to drive to Arizona to help them anymore. But it gives us an opportunity to daily interact with them, which is something we really have enjoyed with, with both sets of our parents.

We want to be involved in their lives and make their lives easier so they can stay independent as long as possible. But that move was really hard. That was hard.

Martha: And, and I think that you know, as we remember the past year, it's important to remember the lessons that we learned along the way and how many times we saw God show up in the details.

And you're talking about your parents move, but God orchestrated everything. Every step of that journey, we could not have logistically made it happen any better than God allowed it to, and you know, that's, I, I celebrate that as a, as a milestone, as a lesson in trust, and I mean, there's just so many things, so I think that I'm just going to continue to say that, you know, when I look back on the year, it's the lessons that we learned along the way and hoping to remember them and And celebrate them so that we learn from them.

You know, Jim, you always say, man, when we, we go through a hard time, it's like, I don't want to have to go to this class again. You know, we don't, we want to pass the exam. We want to learn the things that we need to learn so that we don't have to repeat second grade. You know, it's like, we don't want to have to repeat that lesson.

And so, yes, there's hard things that happen in our personal lives, in our, you know, just so many ways. But. knowing that we have a greater, stronger, continuing to grow that ability to trust in him and the one that loves us more than anything.

Jim: And to say goodbye to 2023, probably the biggest thing I'm glad to say goodbye to is we've had a lot of just waiting on the Lord.

And in the last several months, God has used us to do, to host a dozen online events, which is something we've gotten really good at. And we're starting to see just doors open up of opportunity to do ministry right here in our own little small town that we love here in Southwest Missouri, Marionville, Missouri.

Come visit. Did I say that? Come visit. And bring pie. Okay. No, we'll have pie for you. That's what it is. Something like that. We'll get pie. That's right.

Martha: I make pie.

Jim: Yeah, we do. And I eat pie. So that's why I look like I do. Martha looks like she does.

We're grateful for all that God has in store for us in the next year, but it's good to say goodbye to 2023 and say, we're glad that 4 dollar gas is gone right here in Missouri. And right now we're back to 2.50 gas. How about that? We're celebrating the small things,

Martha. We really do love the fact that 2023... (phone ringing) It's, it's ringing in the new year. I thought that was great. I was ringing in the new year. That's right.

Martha: You know, so it is, it's that celebrating, looking at what God's done in the past and then looking to the future and, and being able to flip that calendar and say, okay, God, what's next?

And like you said, in this, in the opening, it is just a day on the calendar, but it represents a scripture that I love very much. That, you know, his mercies are new every morning. And sometimes we take that to a bigger level. There, his mercies are new in the new year. And so I really do love New Year's and the fresh start that we get to impose on ourselves because really that's what we're doing.

So as we reflect on this past year and we look to the new one, I just want to say how grateful I am for some changes that we've made personally this year by switching our cell phone service to Patriot Mobile and our internet protection to SaferNet VPN.

Jim: It's so true. God opened the doors for us to get the great cell coverage we expect, but allowing our dollars to support our conservative Christian beliefs.

In fact, it actually helps to further the mission of iWork4Him. patriotmobile.com/iWork4Him. Check it out for yourself. And as far as our computers, well, let's just say what great protection we have in place now that we're using SaferNet, SaferNet. com. On all of our devices, our tablets, our phones, our computers, their antivirus, the VPN, their security are top notch and it goes with us to our home and when we travel it brought us safe surfing and safe working when we're in hotels and on the road.

Martha: Yeah and I'll put all the details in the show notes but if you know Jim and I you know that we don't get passionate about something unless it really works and it aligns with our values. So both of these companies do just that and so much more. So start off the new year with making a few changes that can help you and bring alignment to your values.

Jim: You know, so let's talk about our hopes and our dreams for 2024. And I'll start off here because ladies were first the last time so I'll go first. I'm really hoping that. Our involvement in our little local church would allow the church to just see and experience all that God has for them. When you come in with new ideas into a small town, you got to be really careful.

But we go to church with amazing stalwarts of faith, people that have been walking with the Lord for way longer than we have. And we bring a fresh perspective and I'm really hoping that we can make an impact there in 2024. That we can really be a blessing to all those people that we go to church with on a weekly basis. And of course continued involvement in growth in our community.

Martha: Yeah, and I think when I look to 2024 you know the the The possibilities are endless. And who knows? We've learned, Jim, even in this last year. Like we would have never guessed that the things that transpired in 2023 did and we really don't know that for 2024. But I just, my dreams and my visions really include seeing what God is doing around us and joining him in it and celebrating it and not being stuck in expectations.

You know, that we are expecting something to go a certain way. You know, there's some big events on the horizon that we're involved in in 2024. Very excited about that and seeing God continue to bring collaboration in the faith and work movement and just getting more believers to understand their workplace as a mission field.

Oh, you're thinking!

Jim: I am thinking. As a couple I'm looking forward to, so things I hope for us as a couple as we will celebrate 38 years in 2024 and of knowing each other. In 2024, we will have officially been dating for 40 years. We'll have known each other for 42 years since we were 16 years old.

Oh, that means we're also going to turn...

Martha: well, our reunion, it's our 40th high school reunion.

Jim: That doesn't even seem possible. I still feel 16. That's not allowed.

Alright, but as a couple, I look forward to vacation. We're going to do something, you know, I want to go on a cruise or go to like, I just want to get away for a week. Just us. For vacation. We didn't get that done in the last couple years.

Martha: Yeah. And some more time with our kids and grandkids. You know, those are just hopes and dreams that that, you know, I think it's really good to sit down and say, what do we want? Because if you guys are all like us, the time goes by and you're like, oh, man, I thought we would have done more of that this year. Where did it go? And so sitting down, I just want to encourage you, have this little dream session yourself. We, we unfortunately or fortunately get ours digitally recorded and everybody hears it. So it's like, okay, did that happen? And we've had that occasion, Jim, where we've gone back and listened to our New Year shows from the past and said, What were we thinking?

But I think it's a good exercise to say, you know, what do I, what do I as a human, as a wife, as a mom, as a grandma, what do I want to see happen this year? And then, you know, go from there and say, Lord, how do you, how do you want to see it? How does this align? So those are some good

Jim: and as parents, we want to be involved in our kids lives. Our kids are all of course, grown, gone, married. Two out of three of our kids have children and our third one would love to have children. So we're hoping to be encouragers to our kids, to be involved in their lives to the point where they like it. And so that's good. It's always important. And also to just teach them how to, what does it look like to be parents of parents?

And, and so they can learn from us, so that when they're our age, they've perfected it because they're still saying we're not perfecting it. But it's okay. They don't send us letters and tell us that, but sometimes they just text, you know, dad, you're so annoying.

Martha: You know, so a lot of people say like we are the ham in the ham sandwich right now, you know, we're that sandwich stage where we have parents and we have kids.

Jim: Is what that means? Because I like wonder bread and I'm just thinking about the bread on the top is so squishy.

Martha: Yeah, you're not the bread, honey. Right now you're the ham or you are the peanut butter and jelly. Maybe you're the peanut butter and I'm the jelly. Oh, maybe that's what it is. But anyway, we're, you know, in that stage.

Jim: I'm gooey the oily piece and you're the sweet, savory piece?

Martha: You're the meaty protein. You know, this is, this is just proof of the different ways that Jim and I look at life.

Jim: Well, is this chunky peanut butter? So now you're saying I'm fat? I mean, is that what you're saying?

Martha: Stop! I think there's so much more that we should be talking about.

Jim: As caregivers we'll still continue, you know, we look forward to just helping our parents to remain as independent as they can for as long as they can.

That is our, our goal, which is why we move my parents right next door to us. And Martha's sister moved in with her mom after her dad died. It's, it's just an honor to walk alongside our folks. As long as we have, we have folks that are 88, 89 and 90.

Martha: You know, I think, too, Jim, so many of our listeners are probably in that same stage. Because our parents are in this generation that has the ability.. They're way outliving what they thought it would be. And so we are, more of us are caregiving and what an opportunity that is but it is something to really focus on and to do it well and to honor that time of life.

Right. So what about as ministry leaders, Jim?

Jim: You know, what we have in our ministry within the faith and work movement, you know, we're collaborators. And in 2024, I look forward to finishing the first phase of the tapestry project, documenting as many ministries as we can document. that are involved in disciplining workplace believers so that all of you, our listeners, can get access to them in your town. So you know who is there, who can, who can equip you deeper in your faith and living out your faith at work.

I'm excited about that because that's where we've kind of rose to as ministry leaders, but I'm also kind of excited about doing more emcee work, doing more speaking work. We've really, I love to speak. It's fun. I'm hoping I get a chance to preach more at our local church. If they let us back in the doors after I preached last week, I don't know. It's kind of fun. What about you?

Martha: And I would, I would ditto all of those things and just, you know, I, it makes me think that right now I just want to encourage you. If you are involved in a ministry in your local area that has to do with connecting your faith and your work, please reach out to us and let us know about that organization because that's a part of this tapestry project and we know that we only know the surface and we've only scratched the surface of all of the documenting that needs to happen so that they can be connected together because that's really our goal.

Yeah. So, you can email Jim@iWork4Him.

Jim: Or call our listener line and leave us a message, 866 713 9675 or 866 713 WORK. Leave us a message with, hey, here's who I'm involved with that's disciplining me on how to live out my faith at work and we'd love to hear about it. And then we'll contact you and talk to you about it.

You know, as community influencers, when we moved to Marionville , Missouri, we just thought we were moving here to be near one of our kids so we could be already close to them so that when we're old they didn't have to move us close to them. It would already be in place. But what happened is that God has used us to be influencers in this town just to encourage people. We've got opportunities to pray with so many and to provide a building for people to meet and opportunities to get deeper involved with different departments within our city. But our goal here is to really help transform our city into being a great place to live.

Martha: You know, I think so often we just assume we're going to leave that responsibility to somebody else. So I just want to encourage the listeners, if you're thinking right now, like, how could I ever be involved in helping to Influence the direction that my community is going or decisions that are made, look for it. Put yourself out there. Get to know people. Go to meetings. There is a desperate need for your involvement, but sometimes it's - it is not being on a committee.

It is loving somebody at the corner when, you know, they're walking by and they need a bottle of water or, you know, whatever, a lost dog, whatever it might be. But that leads to a relationship that you can then take further. And I just, I just think that there's so many possibilities of ways that you can have influence for Jesus in your community. You just need to step out and do it.

Jim: You just start by loving on your neighbors. I mean, actually just loving your neighbors, even if they're not so lovable some days. Those that are really unlovable, pray for them and watch God transform your heart as he wants you to love your neighbors. You know, Martha, I think as we close out today's show, I want to talk about what do we hope God does in our own lives in 2024.

And for me, two things. One: I want to learn to hear God's voice. I want to just more effectively walk with him, work with him. And so that's really hearing God's voice and working with him, making that transition of not doing all this stuff for God, but to actually God, what are you doing? Where are you active? How can I work with you in what you're doing? That's really important to me.

I want to be able to lead us well as a couple, to be able to impact others lives through our marriage. And I just want to be a better guy. And I know that there are sometimes I feel a nudge and I ignore it because it's inconvenient. And I want to be able to follow those nudges and follow what God is up to.

Martha: And I think for me you know, I just, I pray that I am being the woman that he wants me to be and not doing things out of obligation or out of expectation, but rather out of obedience. And to me, that's, that's something that I think a lot of us struggle with. You know, that there's a lot of expectations out there that are not of God, that, that we have, even as a church, self imposed.

So I, I'm still praying that I'm saying the right yeses and the right no's, and I'm putting my energy where it needs to be, but not where I just want it to be, because I know that I can do it. But, that God wants me to be involved in different things.

Jim: And just know that as we pray for you listeners, and we prepare every week to talk to you, that our goal is for you to recognize that your work is an incredible gift from God, that your workplace is a mission field, and that you've been chosen for that mission field, and that God needs you to live out your faith vibrantly, which means screw ups and all in front of those that you work with so they can meet Jesus because you may be their only chance to meet Jesus. And that's what iWork4Him is all about. And we want to connect you to a ministry that will take that deeper in your life as you live out your faith at work.

And so interact with us. We'd love for you to come along and be a part of who we are as a ministry. iWork4Him. You know, Martha, all of this talk of the new year makes me want to share so many resources with each of our listeners. God has allowed us to curate information, so much information over the years.

I just want to make sure that each of you knows how to access it. Please connect with us on your favorite social media platform, and if you're not sure where to go or where to start, just reach out at iWork4Him. com/ contact and we'll walk with you. We'd love for you to be a part of our team and help the millions of workplace believers here in this country believe and understand that their workplace is their mission field and how they can work with God.

We invite you to join us today at iWork4Him. com / donate and be a monthly giver because you'll be amazed to see what God will do in your life as you support the ministries that are feeding you on a daily or weekly basis, and iWork4Him, I know, is one of them, because you're listening to this show.

We could use your support. Just look for what God is going to do in 2024. Martha, we're working on shifting our attitudes from iWork4Him to I Work With Him. What does that mean to you as we close out to today's show?

Martha: Well, I just think that it's really actualizing more of the conversation that we, we talk about with different guests that we have all the time. When we are praying about business decisions, when we are asking him what he wants us to be doing in our daily life to actually, maybe it's even putting an empty chair in our office so that we're working with him beside us. And and and be thinking about that cognitively all the time that we're not just inviting him into what we're doing We're not just doing it for his glory, but we're doing it with him as an active partner.

And and Jim, that's just a constant challenge for us to change the way we think, because again, Romans 12:2, I mean, we talk about it so often, but we don't want to copy the behaviors and customs of this world. And those customs keep changing in the church and outside of the church because we get influenced by those around us and our influence needs to come from God.

Jim: And so we need to change the way we think. Happy New Year. iWork4Him, audience. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him!

12/20/23 - 2021: Your Merry Mission

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him , the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: And of course, the workplace we're talking about is your Christmas workplace because there's no other day of the year that Martha loves to celebrate more than Christmas. She likes to celebrate it for many months. In fact, we've got a rule at our house. You can't start celebrating Christmas and playing Christmas music until there's eggnog on the shelves.

But over the years, I've learned to embrace that Martha loves Christmas. It's not how I grew up, but we've been together a lot longer than the years that I grew up in my parents household. When we celebrate Christmas and the Festival of Lights, the light of the world, this celebration is such a great opportunity to invite people to meet Jesus.

Very few people on the planet aren't excited about a three day weekend, but also about a time with family. a time to get presents. Just a time to celebrate the magic of the season. And where did that magic come from? I don't think it came from Santa Claus. I think it came from Jesus. If Jesus hadn't come at Christmas time, and I know "don't get all theological on me."

We don't know the day that Jesus was born, but if we didn't celebrate it at Christmas time, we'd have nothing to celebrate. As we gather with our family and friends this week to celebrate Christmas, we want to challenge you to involve those who will be alone. In your celebration. As Martha and I reminisce on Christmas past and Christmas future, and of course, Christmas present - what did you get me for Christmas? I want to know - we will offer up some challenges on how you can live out your faith at work vibrantly this week at Christmas. Welcome to our Christmas show - iWork4Him style.

Martha: You know, I just want to say Merry Christmas because I do love this time of year. And you know, I think the thing that makes it so special for me is just that there's an energy about it, and people that don't even realize they're celebrating the birth of Christ get to be exposed to that. Get to see nativity set up, people gathering at church, a lot of things that we've created as tradition.

Jim, they all have the ability to point to Jesus, and I think that's why I love it so much. And of course, I love decorating. I love things around us feeling pretty in a special way. If you're watching our video, we've got our Christmas shirts on, we've got a pretty background with a pretty tree, all of those things.

Jim: Yes, we do. We're in a building with seven Christmas trees. We've got seven Christmas trees in our iWork4Him headquarters. Is that what you said we had? Seven? Yeah, and we're on the way to number eight. Yeah, number eight arrives before Christmas Any day, but you I mean you're freakishly excited about Christmastime. Now as a kid growing up what was your mom and your dad, were they as excited about Christmas? I mean, like, did you celebrate for two months like we do now?

Martha: Well, I'm not sure what the time frame looked like, but to me, I mean, my parents were great about, probably, and you know what? I never thought about this before, but my dad was a photographer. And so, you had to take, back in the time of my childhood when you had film and not digital...

Jim: back when the running water was a new thing in the house,

Martha: you had to really plan ahead to get your family photo done for Christmas. So I'm thinking that that's maybe where that influence came from. Because my dad started taking Christmas pictures, you know, early in the fall so that people could get their pictures taken and all that.

So yeah, I think I can blame my parents. Thank you, mom and dad, because it's a good thing. But then my mom is a seamstress, so she would be sewing things for people and getting things ready and we would entertain. And so all of those things were part of the, the holiday season in our home. And I loved it.

Jim: You know, growing up in Minnesota from the time I was 8 on, you know, Christmas, the minute there was snow on the ground, I started thinking about Christmas. And in some years, that was October. In some years, it wasn't even at Christmas. I mean, there was nothing worse in Minnesota then a brown Christmas because for crying out loud why would you live in the frozen tundra of Minnesota if you can't have snow on the ground at Christmas time?

But that's what made it fun because there's nothing more gorgeous than lights outside on a tree Covered with snow, especially lights that you put on before there was snow. So then they glowed out through the snow. I love that part.

My parents weren't freakishly excited about Christmas, but I loved Christmas and it was always, it was always fun. In fact, one of my traditions - because I loved the magic of Christmas and I understood there wasn't a Santa Claus. Sorry, if there are kids listening to today's podcast,

Martha: Good job that you're listening.

Jim: That's right. Talk to your parents about this Santa Claus thing. You know, but, but what I understood was that there's still that, just that thrill, that anticipation of the cool stuff you're gonna get Christmas morning and for some it's very simple but for everybody it's still really exciting. So on Christmas eve, somewhere late in the evening when kids are going to bed, I would get on my bike regardless of what the roads would look like and i'd put our Sleigh bells on my bike, and I would ride around the block shaking the sleigh bells and playing because I swore as a kid, I heard sleigh bells.

Martha: I don't think I knew this.

Jim: So I get on my bike and in Minnesota, that could be a treacherous thing. That's very dangerous. I'd ride around the block and two or three blocks. I don't even remember how far, but I remember One night when the roads were icy, just totally icy.

Martha: Were you slipping and sliding?

Jim: No, because I was an expert biker. Oh, of course. So, going around the block, shaking those bells, and just hoping that, I'm hoping that some kids hearing this stuff.

Martha: That's awesome. That would be kind of fun. So you're creating a little magic for other people.

Jim: Yes. Yes. All right. So, but then. You know, we moved from the frozen tundra, Minnesota, and, I don't know, did we have traditions when our kids are growing up? Did we have traditions that, I mean - it's just kind of, this is a transparent Jim and Martha time right here, on iWork4Him.

Martha: Sure we did. So some of the things that we had traditions with our kids, like they had little trees in their bedroom that had their own special ornaments on it.

Jim: Because you were too embarrassed to put them on our big tree?

Martha: Well, no, but I did like a design to my tree and order. So, you know, you have the, the now Pinterest worthy tree and then the cute kids trees where they put on their homemade ornaments.

Jim: Our kids are still going to counseling about the fact that their ornaments were never good enough for a tree, but it's okay, honey.

Martha: No, I let them have their own special trees.

So making cookies, of course. Can I tell one of my favorite traditions? Okay. Okay. So, my dad's birthday was December 13th. My mom is Swedish and a Swedish holiday is Santa Lucia, which has a beautiful story of her bringing in light and, and feeding the needy.

And so my family incorporated the two. We would celebrate my dad's birthday and Santa Lucia. We would wear a crown of candles on our head, yes, live, melting, flaming candles, and bring in breakfast to my dad in bed every year . And as recently as this last year, our granddaughters served Santa Lucia to my dad on his birthday.

And so to me, that's a beautiful start of the season. You know, it's another excuse to be celebrating 12 days before Christmas. And really, that was a favorite tradition.

Jim: And putting flames on top of your head.

Martha: Well, yeah, because, you know, you had to be brave and trusting and

Jim: how many times did one of your sister's hair catch on fire?

Martha: Actually, I don't think it ever caught on fire, but we ended up with a lot of melted wax.

Jim: Not true. I witnessed it at least one time in the last,

Martha: maybe I have a selective memory, but we had lots of wax drip on our heads. And now our granddaughters have felt candles. So it's not.

Jim: And when you try to light those, they don't light very well. They really don't.

But what's really cool is that, so we moved to Florida. We lived in Florida for 20 years at Christmas time. It's just a little different, but you can still celebrate Christmas in your shorts. You can. I think probably my favorite one was the year that Martha, your parents came down. We spent Christmas at the beach and I remember having shrimp and spending time at the beach at Christmas time.

Martha: And we said, well. We're going to do it. We're going to do it different. We're going to do it Florida style. I remember that very well.

Jim: And the best part about Christmas in Florida is the boat parades. Where they, where everybody decorated their boats and went in and out of the canals celebrating their boats.

Kind of like people decorate sleighs up here in the Northland. Or even decorate houses. That's right. They decorated their Boats. Yes. Yes. All right. But we live in Missouri now again. Well, we're in the Midwest again is what I mean, but we live in Missouri. And we're developing new traditions. We don't have what they are this year, except for yet, because it's only been 18 months, but we did decorate our newly rehabbed 1880 building with seven Christmas trees. And we've had a lot of people from the community come in our community here in Marionville, Missouri celebrating. We've got the ninth we're doing a Christmas parade where there'll be santa claus and there'll be all kinds of the reading

Martha: They actually, this is a beautiful thing because the community has a tradition of reading the actual Christmas story.

And I love that. I love that they're not afraid to declare what the reason for the season is. And so they read the Christmas story, celebrated in lots of different ways. but all coming together as a community. So that's just one of our new traditions that we get to embrace here in Missouri.

Jim: Well, and just recently we did the drive through Santa. So where all the downtown businesses, which was right now only four. It was the library. It was the pharmacy, which used to be downtown. They came back down. Our ministry and the local insurance agency and the bank, which used to be downtown, but it's now out on the highway. We all got together and people lined up for about a quarter mile to come in and get a free turkey.

They brought canned goods to share with others and we gave them gifts to take home for people that maybe wouldn't have as much to take home. And so that was kind of fun.

Martha: And that was an opportunity to share the Christmas story also because we gave a bag that had a little kind of a family home night in it. And it was the Christmas story, an ornament that related to it to put on the tree, some hot cocoa and just an encouragement for them to spend a little time together as a family remembering the reason for the season.

Jim: For those of you that live in Florida or the, our Southeastern United States listeners and maybe the desert Southwest - hot cocoa. It's like chocolate milk that you warm up because it's freezing cold outside.

Martha: That you need to get your insides warm.

Jim: Yesterday for drive through Santa, it was 40. Which is not bad, but it was still chilly.

All right. So Martha in today's show we're talking about intentionality at Christmas time at work And there are two things that we have intentionally done this year We as a ministry have subscribed to SaferNet vpn to provide our digital security for digital activity, which is on so many devices for the ministry.

SaferNet.com has provided antivirus and web filters and also a VPN so that when we're out surfing, nobody's out watching, which is just great. And it's, they can't get access and tunnel into our computers and wreak havoc, but we've also subscribed to Patriot Mobile for our cellular services. Both of these companies very intentionally live out their mission.

SaferNet makes cybersecurity possible and protects our home and work computer traffic, all our internet stuff, protection from all sorts of evils. And when you switch to Patriot Mobile, you're shifting your support from the leftist progressive agendas of big mobile who don't support the Christians to a Christian conservative company Patriot Mobile.

Switching to Patriot Mobile from your current carrier has never been easier since the Introduction of an e sim for your phone instead of those plug in sims. Go to PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him and switch today Move your money because your money talks. I want to encourage you to make some intentional changes that honor God and protect you and your loved ones. Contact me: Jim@iWork4Him.com to learn more.

Martha, we both love Christmas, but Christmas isn't everybody's favorite. Is it?

Martha: No, it's not. And you know, sometimes it's, there's other things in our life that we connect with Christmas that are hurtful or painful. Sometimes there's a loss in a family that happens around that time of year, or it's the first time you've had Christmas without a family member.

There's a lot of reasons and some people are, you know, they're mad at God. and they don't understand what Christmas really means. So there's a lot of reasons that people don't love Christmas. But what should we do about that, Jim?

Jim: You know, I don't know. I just really feel right now prompted to shout out to a friend of mine who's going to celebrate his first Christmas with Jesus. My Buddy, my good friend of mine, John Norsworthy, went to be with the Lord unexpectedly on Thanksgiving Day this year. But I want to thank John's family for letting John be a part of my life, be a part of iWork4Him. I don't remember if we've ever interviewed him on iWork4Him. Now it's too late because they don't have podcast studios in heaven at least that we find out yet.

But you know John's family's gonna be without John this year at Christmas and Laura and the girls just know that we're praying for you, and We are so grateful that John was a part of our lives for a lot of years. And he went to be Lord young but you know some people get lucky. And that's a tough one.

But I, I know that Martha, what we've learned is that companies have, they celebrate Christmas differently, but we've seen companies that honor God at their Christmas celebration by sharing the Christmas story. We've had many companies we've talked to that give great gifts at Christmas time to honor those that work for them that maybe don't have very much. It's just Christmas is a time to introduce people to Jesus. And the question is, is that legal? Heck yeah! We don't care what everybody says, this is a free country, for now.

And you can tell people about Jesus. You can't force people to follow Jesus. But if you're paying their payroll, or if you work alongside of them, nobody can tell you to shut up and don't tell me about Jesus. We want to be respectful, of course. If you're running your own business, this is a time for you to be transparent, to let people know everything that drives you is centered on Jesus.

And if it doesn't make sense to them because they've seen how you work, it just gives you an opportunity in 2024 to work a lot harder on making Jesus a connection to your work.

Martha: You know, I just think it's a time to encourage you as listeners and encourage ourselves. What can I do more intentionally around the holiday season?

And it's not too late, even in these last days leading up to Christmas, or you may even be listening to this after Christmas. It's not too late. There are ways that we can, you know, With the cards that we send, the messages that we give, the if you have a decision making role, what are you know, I'm thinking of some of the things that when you have a Christmas party, a lot of people love to do that to, to bless their employees and their coworkers with a time away from the office. You can bless the meal and thank them and remind them why we're having this celebration. And you know, I just think there's so many ways that we can very easily miss those opportunities. So I think this is a good challenge, Jim, to just say. What else can we do? What can we do with more intention?

I know a lot of companies do the shoe boxes for Operation Christmas Child. It's, you know, already done for this year because they're out distributing them now. But that's a really intentional thing that you can do. Also, the every community has local things where they're helping the less fortunate and or the kids whose parents are in jail or the, you know, there's so many things. And again, it's not about the gift, but it's what you can do with that.

I'm giving you this because Jesus loves me and I want to love you. And whatever that message might be, being really intentional with it. It's a, we don't get that kind of a open door any other time of the year as beautifully set up. We do every day, but it's beautifully set up at Christmas.

Jim: And we work all year long alongside people. And we know what their likes are, we know what their dislikes are, we know what their family, who their family members are. And if you don't, it gives you an opportunity in 2024 to be way more intentional, find out who they all are. Giving a gift really means something to somebody.

Now, am I saying to all of you, you got to give gifts to everybody you work with? No, but if the Lord leads you, it's something you should do. It is. This is a time of year to let people know that you really love them, that you've been praying for them. And if you've been praying for your co workers and employees, your bosses, your vendors, your customers during the year, you now know them better than you've ever known them.

And it gives you an opportunity to match that gift with the heart that God has given you for that person. But Martha, it's I mean, it's just such a special time of year. And, and, I mean, do you have any other ideas of how do we make, what do we do to make it special for someone you work with?

Martha: I actually do, Jim, and a lot of us do struggle with that. And on our website, we have, actually have a popular download that we think might be helpful to any one of you. It's called The 21 Ways to Care for Your Coworkers. And you can just go to, iWork4Him.com/workplace Tools. And you can find that in the dropdown too. But that's just a place where you can go and download this 21 Ways to Care for your Coworkers.

We just brainstormed, came up with some ideas and it just might launch you and say. Oh, that's something I can do, you know, and whether it's now at Christmas or sometime as you're looking into the new year, this might be a resource that helps you to think differently about your co workers and encouraging them. So I hope you'll check it out!

Jim: So that Link is iWork4Him.com/workplace-tools , and it's on our resource. Is that in a resource page?

Martha: It is and it's also in the show notes for today.

Jim: Oh the show notes the Ultimate, the infamous show notes. We're gonna have show notes. We're gonna picture of us in our show notes!

Martha: Oh, we can't do that.

Jim: We can't?

Martha: Look at the video On YouTube to see our great Christmas t shirts.

Jim: That's right. Martha made them for us. No, she bought them for us. All right. Okay. All right. So here's our ideas. We close out today's show and we just want to make today's show fun. But Martha and I love when it's just us just to be transparent and share stuff. One of the things that we hate to hear about -And we're now that we're back in a small town, you can hear about this stuff way easier - is to find out that somebody's going to be alone at Christmastime.

You know what? There's just one word for that: that stinks. Okay, that's two words, but it stinks. And so how do we find out if somebody we work with is going to be alone at Christmastime or one of our neighbors is going to be alone at Christmastime?

Ask them!

Martha: Ask them! You know what? You don't have to come out and say, Hey, are you going to be alone?

Just say, Hey, what are your plans? Like, open up a conversation. This is part of building that relationship with the people that you are with. But, if they say, Well, I don't really have any, or they avoid answering you, dig a little deeper, and find out if there's really an opportunity for them to need a place to go.

And even if they don't end up needing a place, Open it up, invite them so that they know that you were willing to make that step in your relationship. I think it's key. I would, I'd be curious, Jim. I don't know how many people decline, you know, but knowing that somebody actually offered is huge. Whether they accept it or not, but be willing to let them accept it.

Jim: You're saying it's worth the bonus points. Just ask. Absolutely. Definitely. So we need to, we need to involve, because this is one of those things, taking your relationship, you know, and the iWork4Him Nation pledge, part three is, you know, invite people into your life.

Spend, I can't even think the words right now because I'm doing them out of order. You know, first you're praying for people that you work with every day. Then you're looking for ways to serve them over and above what you're required to do. But then you look for ways to befriend them outside of your workplace, because that's where real relationships begin.

This is one of those ways to do that. Yes. And whether it's part of your Christmas celebration, your Thanksgiving celebration, or maybe your new year's celebration, which we'll talk about in the next podcast. Inviting people into your life outside of work allows you to be real with them and to share with them who you really are without restraint that you sometimes have to display when you're at work.

Martha: I just had an idea. A lot of churches have Christmas Eve services. If you, maybe they already have plans for Christmas Day or they're reluctant to tell you or whatever, but Christmas Eve is a very special time to invite people that may never enter the doors of a church, but that's a time when they're willing to do so, Jim.

And I think that it is true. I think that taking that challenge of just saying, Hey, would you, you know, just meet me at church or I'll pick you up or whatever it might be, but do that and then go have some cookies.

Jim: Involve food with it. Hey, go to church with us and then come back and we're going to play games. We're going to have pie. Yeah. Because almost everybody loves pie. And if you don't have anybody to invite over for pie, just send Martha an email. Martha@iWork4Him.com because Jim loves pie and we'll come over for pie.

Martha: You would love that. Wouldn't you? You would love it if we could have pie with every one of our listeners. Although you wouldn't be able to get through the door.

Jim: Yeah, that's not a good idea, but it's a nice thought. But we do have a village inn in a town near us. If you'd like to send, iWork4Him any gift cards this year for Christmas, the address is on our website. iWork4Him. com. I do like the French silk.

And we don't live next to our old favorite neighbor, Lorna. And she always got me a French silk pie at Christmas. We do miss Lorna. All right. So we're, you've got an opportunity as a workplace missionary to extend the gift of friendship at Christmas. Do that.

Involve people that you work with in your personal life invite them over for Christmas. And as we prepare for Christmas and anticipate 2024, We just want to say thank you to our listeners and our supporters who make this ministry possible. You are equipping workplace believers to see their workplace as a mission field and we're grateful to have you as part of our support team.

And also a thank you to SaferNet, SaferNet.com, bringing security to your internet exposure each and every day at work and at home. And to Patriot Mobile. Check them out because they'll change your life. PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him .

You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, and we want to wish you a Merry Christmas because our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

12/13/23 - 2020: United We Chamber

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement,

Martha: and we are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now,

Jim: You know, on Sunday mornings, Christians around the globe are as segregated as ever, but something explosive happens on Monday morning. On Monday morning, Christ following believers, enter the marketplace, their workplaces that God has assigned them and denominational walls fall down and the body of Christ is unified.

They are singular in their mission to bring the kingdom to earth through each individual living out their faith in their work. But where does one go to celebrate that? Is there an organization in this country that celebrates what God is doing in business no matter the size or mission of that business?

The same week that iWork4Him launched in 2013, the Christian Chamber of Commerce in Tampa Bay launched as well. At that point in our, in time in our country's history, there were 19 Christian Chambers of Commerce. And over the years, Christian Chambers have popped up internationally as well as statewide and local.

But now arises out of Orlando, the United States Christian Chamber of Commerce, an organization dedicated to enhance, expand, and encourage the growth of local Christian chambers from sea to shining sea and celebrate them all on a national basis. And here today is the founder. Krystal Parker. Welcome to iWork4Him.

Krystal Parker: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and I am so glad that was recorded. I don't know if that was scripted or not, Jim, but that was fantastic.

Jim: Well, I do have to write down some notes so I don't forget stuff. But Krystal, before we start talking about the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce, which we really want to hear that. But first we want to celebrate your Jesus story. Tell us

Krystal Parker: Yeah, so, well, I grew up in a town of 300 dogs, cats, and dead people in Moscow, Kansas, and we got the 10 Year Perfect Attendance Award. That means 10 years, 52 weeks in every year, 520 church visits in a row, perfect attendance. And we were the best Sunday Christians that you might know.

So that is what I learned was, going to church and being a Christian was going to that building and doing something for an hour. Checking off the box and then just living however we wanted. We never carried Jesus into our Monday or even past that hour at church. And if it went over an hour, people really got grumpy.

So, um, so I just, I just thought that's what it meant to be a Christian. And God invited me into a different story through many, many failures. As you know, I mean, I was really living life off of the fairway, you know, always outside of the alignment with what God would want me to do. And it was through several failures and finally going, okay, God, if this whole thing is real, then show me.

And it just, once I invited him in and quit turning to the ways of the world that the world promises that are not true, I just got a flooding of the holy living water of Jesus Christ and just radically changed my life. And I knew at that point I wanted to serve him and show others what it meant to be fully integrated with Christ, not just on Sunday, but every day, every minute, every hour.

Martha: Well, I've never met anybody that has gotten the 10 year perfect attendance award. But I know that you're an overachiever, so it really doesn't surprise me, but I think that there's probably a lot of listeners that can relate in one way or another that, you know, they were always in church or they all, you know, but it didn't ever really become personal for them.

So I think that that's an encouraging place for us to start. So let's talk then about your career path that God has taken you on prior to the Christian Chamber of Commerce. I know it's an amazing journey that God's had you on, but give us just kind of like that brief overview.

Krystal Parker: Yep. So I go off to college thinking that I'm never coming back to that small town and ended up dropping out of college with just 21 hours left to complete my degree, going back to the small town with my tail between my legs. And I actually realized that, okay, I've got to do something. I can't just live with my mom and dad forever.

And so I started as a temp employee, stocking shelves in a truck parts store that was a subsidiary of an oil and gas company. And that first year I just evolved into different roles. front desk. And then after being the front desk receptionist and doing some of the accounting, I remember going to my manager at this point in the field.

Now I'm in the field and saying is there any other way I could make more money or do more? Like I was, I started to really enjoy the business. And he said, well, there's no positions for you here, little lady. You're going to have to move and, and take another office job somewhere else. And, and so I didn't think that he was being disparaging towards me.

I just. took his advice and did exactly what he said. I got into an HR job and then supervisor in the call center. And then from there that's where I really got to see God move. Although I didn't think it was God, I thought it was me. And the more successful I got, the more I took the credit for it. So going from supervisor, I went into sell in the natural gas the large distribution companies were hedging gas on the NYMEX and, and that, and then I jumped two steps to take become my boss's boss back in the call center which is unheard of and then became the youngest vice president.

I was running the gas company in the 47 cities on the west side of Texas and all the customer service for Texas. And I just think back to that guy that never thought I could oversee anything in the field. And at this point I'm over construction gosh, engineering service, everything in the field. And then from there, I started to run all of customer service for all three distribution companies. It was a story that is only explainable by God. But again, because I was that Sunday Christian, and I thought it was all me. I took all the credit. I had the big house, the big ego, and lots of problems.

Jim: Hmm. We can all relate. Well, I don't know the big house thing, but definitely where we thought that it was us doing it and not God.

Martha: Hmm. So now, you have, so you got out of oil and gas, and I don't remember what transitioned you into the Christian Chamber of Commerce in Central Florida.

Krystal Parker: Yeah, so that's really part of the story. So I, I left the oil and gas field you know, followed into failed marriage number two unfortunately. Again, like I said, through number of failures is where the point where I finally surrendered my life to Christ. And once I did that and surrendered my life to Christ, I realized at that point, there's no going back.

You can't separate Christ from who you are once you fully accept him to be a part of your whole life. And I wanted to help other businesses to lean into that and experience what that meant, help people to see that full integration of faith and work. And so I was just going to do that through my consulting company.

And somebody suggested that I meet with Mark Goldstein, who at the time was the president of the Central Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce. And so I went to meet with him to become a member of the Christian chamber. And little did I know that he got in his car after two hours of meeting together and he called his wife and he said, God said, she's the one. He didn't tell me that right away. But eventually he did and, and the rest is history.

Jim: And Mark Goldstein, if you want to have a great interview, we interviewed him, wow, eight or nine years ago as they helped the Central, as the Central Florida Christian Chamber helped launch the Christian Chamber of Commerce in Tampa Bay. They were intricate in that. So we spent a little bit of time with Mark. What a great supporter he was.

All right. So, but recently in the last two years, you went from being the president of the Central Florida Christian Chamber of Commerce and you launched the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce. Tell us about that.

Krystal Parker: So it turns out 20 years ago, the person that registered this entity, registered the entity for Central Florida Christian Chamber, as we all know it, it was actually the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce, and that entity, that entity lived for 17, 18 years, sort of underground I just kind of think of it germinating under there for such a time as this, and everybody just, was doing business as Central Florida Christian Chamber, but Mark and Kevin who was on the board had the wherewithal to say, this is special.

This US Christian Chamber is special. They bought the URL. They continue to keep the business registered and current and up to date but just didn't have peace or know what to do or how to release it. So when I came in as the president of central Florida, it was two months after COVID had hit. And Mark would tell you this, but for five years, he really wanted to retire from his role as president.

And he even announced it at the Christian chamber that he was retiring from central Florida. And he said he is sure as the day was he heard the Lord say to him, who said you could retire? He Was going about the Christian chamber and not really in development mode, just like God send whoever's supposed to come.

And anyway, so the chambers was naturally changing and then COVID hit and two months later is where I came in as the president. And so we started to do a lot of grassroots marketing. And at the time, and you guys will remember this, people were not only scared, but they were lonely and they were locked in their homes and they were looking for community because they had lost human connection.

And so we started to just provide that through virtual and even in person. We'd mask up and go where, where we could take our masks off and and started doing that and marketing it. And so I remember about three or four months into being the president of central Florida, I got the first call from the Las Vegas Christian chamber of commerce.

And at the time I didn't know that there was. And I thought, well, okay, well, I'll tell you what we're doing, but it just, it just struck me really funny. And so two weeks, exactly two weeks later, I got a call from Alaska and somebody from Alaska came across Central Florida Christian Chamber, and they wanted to start a Christian Chamber.

And they said, can you help us start a Christian Chamber? And at that point I was like, okay, who is, who is supposed to be helping these Christian chambers? Like what's going on? And I looked and searched for US Christian chamber. There was no US Christian chamber. We were the US Christian chamber and God was planting those seeds and preparing us to be able to launch the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce.

Jim, you guys connected us with International Christian Chamber of Commerce. And at that point, I realized that for such a time as this, it's time for our nation. It's time for believers in the marketplace and for these Christian chambers to have somebody to turn to, to help them grow so that we can put God back at the center of this nation.

Martha: I love all of that timeline and how God, you know, we had, you had no idea, but God did, and He's putting all that together. So what truly is the mission and the vision of the U. S. Christian Chamber before we take a mention here?

Krystal Parker: Yeah, so our, our vision, our mission, our mission is to advance the kingdom of God through the marketplace.

I love what Billy Graham said. You've heard it. You probably said it on your show, but the next greatest movement of God is going to come through believers in the marketplace. And I know that we as believers. in the marketplace, doing business, just on an average everyday sort of work that we do individually, whether it be blue collar, white collar, you know, no collar.

We have an opportunity to reach the mindshare of the unchurched at a significant level more than a pastor on Sunday. So if people that are out there living their everyday life are ever going to hear the gospel or see the gospel in action, it's going to be through these believers in the marketplace.

So very simply, we advance the kingdom of God through the marketplace. We strengthen and fortify Christian businesses, and we do that through strengthening Christian business leaders, teaching them what it means to integrate faith, invite the Holy Spirit in as they're doing their business, and that strategic advantage that we give them through doing that.

But we also. teach businesses, kingdom businesses, what it means to do business in the kingdom, create kingdom commerce, doing business with one another, seeking Christian businesses to do business with first, before you let the money go outside of the community. And the last thing we do is we transform cities.

When you start to put all these things together in a local city. You will see that transformation happen.

Jim: Speaking of strengthening and fortifying Christians, one of the things we want to make sure everybody in our audience knows about that's a, it's, it's a new partner with iWork4Him is SaferNet, SaferNet. com. We all are on the web and there's all kinds of evil people on the web trying to destroy our lives, whether it's through pornography or stealing our information, whatever it may be, you need to be protected and an antivirus doesn't just do it all. Safer net has a VPN, 84 website filters and antivirus and a console for controlling your family's access to the Internet and for tracking where your employees are going on the Internet. It's super powerful. Check it out online, SaferNet. com.

Martha: So, now that you've launched the U. S. Christian Chamber, um, which we're excited that we're founding members on it and now sitting on the Board of Directors because we believe in what is happening with the U. S. Christian Chamber and happy to be there to help support it in, in the ways that we can.

What is your vision for Christian Chambers across the country?

Krystal Parker: More of them, definitely more you know, there's a new awareness, I think that hasn't necessarily been there before where people are, there's, there's really some distinct lines that are being formed in the sand, if you will, where I, and I was just on talking with someone today that she works in the HR profession and she was actually written up and she's very open and sharing her faith. And that kind of stuff.

We were, we had a meeting one time and there was a young man there and it was his birthday and he had heard about the Christian chamber in central Florida and we were doing a fellowship Friday, but we pushed this one live and everybody came up and said who they are and he went up and said who he was and then afterwards he just started trembling and he said, if my work that he was in it, if my work finds out that I'm a Christian, I'm going to get persecuted.

That's These kinds of stories are happening all the time. And so what, and what, like I told you, it, once you fully accept Jesus Christ in your life, you can't go, Oh, this is how I am on Sunday, but this is how I am at work. And maybe I don't want to go do business the way the world does business. I want to have a biblical worldview.

I want to invite the Holy Spirit in. I want to pray with people. Well, you can't just do that in the world. And in many of these other chambers of commerce, there still are some chambers of commerce that have Christian values. And I think that's wonderful. But for the most part, Traditional Christian, traditional chambers of commerce have very clear lines and Christians, some of our ways and how we do business aren't accepted there.

And so we want to give people that opportunity.

Jim: Well, when we were living in Tampa Bay I was a member of a local chamber that was not a Christian chamber, as well as we were a member of the Christian chamber. And when iWork4Him launched and I wanted to be involved, still stay involved in the lunch group, they said, well, Jim, you cannot bring iWork4Him into our small lunch group.

You can be a member of the chamber, but you're not allowed to bring iWork4Him into that small lunch group. I'm like, Okay. And I had a long conversation with the president and we came to an agreement and, and, and I just bowed out cause I didn't want to cause trouble, but they were trying to keep any, well, they were trying to keep proselytization out of their lunch meetings.

So Krystal, I know that your heart is to encourage existing Christian chambers across the country and then encourage new ones to launch. There are, I don't know, have you started tracking how many existing Christian chambers are across the country?

Krystal Parker: We haven't started tracking. Now in our coalition we have six Christian chambers.

We created the Christian chamber coalition, and that is where the Christian chambers that are members of the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce and part of our network come in and work together to grow, to share ideas, collaborate, etcetera. We're looking at some new starts within the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce, some new Christian chambers into 2024.

But we don't have an exact count of the Christian chambers that are out there that are not part of our coalition. The other piece of this is membership. We also offer membership because there's a lot of people that not only do business in their local community, but they also want to do business nationally, and have a product that can scale.

And so those individuals, we encourage them to be part of their local Christian chamber, but also be a part of the U. S. Christian Chamber of Commerce through our membership program as well.

Jim: Well, and just yesterday we had an event that we held, and there were people from all over the country. It was an online event and we were talking about that connection of faith and work on an event.

We had 30 or 40 people involved and it was fantastic people from minnesota. They were from all over the place so

Martha: So Krystal take a minute right now and just talk to the listeners about you know what this means for them like maybe this is interesting to them. Like what would their next step be number one if they don't even know if there's anything locally and or at the u. s level

Krystal Parker: That's an awesome question. Go to our website. It's uschristianchamber. com. uschristianchamber. com. There's some resources on there for you. First of all, maybe you want to know, is there a Christian chamber that's part of the US Christian chamber in my neighborhood? We have on there in our directory, a Christian chamber directory so that you can easily find it right on our front page.

Just look right there for directories. If you don't have a local Christian Chamber of Commerce but you want to see if there's any businesses that are openly Christian in your neighborhood. There's a mapping feature on our directory. So any of our members are listed in the directory and searchable through our directory and our mapping feature.

So maybe you'll find somebody that's just a couple of miles away that's a member of the U. S. Christian Chamber. And if you're not a member, there's a join now button on there. Just join us. But there's one more opportunity for people to get connected. And that's at our U. S. Christian Business Expo and Global Conference in April 18th and 19th in Orlando, Florida.

That's the Mecca. That's where we're all coming in from all over the world to build those connections and relationships and to grow, and I'm really excited about this event.

Jim: Well, in fact, if you want to find out more about that event, Martha and I will be emceeing that event. You can go to iWork4Him. com forward slash events and learn all about that event. And we want to talk about that event, but Martha first, you want to talk about something else.

Martha: Well, yeah, so we've been talking about this mission and, you know, it's so important because it tells, missions tell us where a company is headed and why they've been formed and what their goals might be.

And we love the mission of Patriot Mobile, which is to passionately defend our God given constitutional rights and freedoms and to glorify God always. Wow, that is a powerful it's mission. And as America's only Christian conservative wireless provider we at, iWork4Him, have partnered with Patriot Mobile in that mission.

And when you go to patriot mobile.com/iWork4Him, you will not only get great, dependable coverage, but be able to support the mission of Patriot Mobile, and iWork4Him. So I just want to encourage you to go there and make the switch today. I, I just know that when we truly believe in aligning our dollars with our values, and this is just one of those steps that I've been telling people as we look into the new year.

Like, what can I do with more intentionality? Well, this is something simple. We all spend money on cell phones, so let's do it in a way that aligns with our values and supports the things that we believe in. So PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him.

Jim: okay, next April, April 18th and 19th in Orlando, Florida and our venue is

Krystal Parker: Oh, the secret new venue!

The venue is the Double Tree. It's a Hilton property by, at SeaWorld.

Jim: Nice. And so there'll be dolphins right there in the lobby. Sea, sea turtles walking down the hallways. What can people expect? As people say, okay, should I go to the U. S. Christian Chamber National Expo in Orlando next April? Tell them what they can expect.

Krystal Parker: Well, we have, first of all, we were just there today just praying in preparation and there is just some incredible things that are going to be unlocked at that expo and global conference. We've partnered with international Christian chamber of commerce. Their North American conference is immediately following.

We're calling it the after conference. So this is going to be just an infusion. I mean, you want to be in the room. Because to really experience those connections and relationships that are going to come as a result of being in the room, that's priceless. And I love to tell people that relationships are currency.

I can think time and time and time and time again of that warm market, my relationships, opening doors for me that I could never have opened before by myself. And so just being in that space to build those relationships. That's Paramount. And that's really what we're all about. The Christian chamber is relationships and community, and to be able to come into a safe place with people that are just like you speaking your language, that are approaching business with, whatever the business is, with that same intentionality, that's going to be a great room to be in.

The second thing is, and when we have the best MCs in the world, right here with you, so like you don't want to miss them on stage, but we also have really incredible keynote speakers that are going to help you to think and dig deeper.

We've got breakout sessions that you're not going to want to miss with some incredible breakout room leaders that are typically up on a keynote stage that are going to be in that breakout room. And those breakout rooms, we're saying that that's where you're going to do the work. We've got relationship building lunch.

We've got a Christian business expo floor, so you can, we are going to talk it and we're going to walk it. We want you to experience Christian businesses and give people an opportunity to show their business. So you're going to want to be on the floor. We have an evening reception. We've got Chase and Co coming in from Nashville with worship.

One of the things that I found in working in with the Christian business group is since COVID came, a lot of people fell out of the church and it's not uncommon for Christian business leaders to maybe not even have a church home and that's okay. There's no judgment here. But in doing so, people have lost the power of corporate worship.

And so we're going to have worship at this event. I know it's a business event in a hotel and we're going to have worship. Okay. Yes, we are. And it's going to be incredible. We have a keynote speaker that Has not been announced yet, but be on the lookout for that. I'm just so thankful for our kingdom sponsor, which is Red Balloon.

You're going to get exposure to businesses and individuals that you wouldn't normally have an opportunity to connect with. So those are some of the things, but then there's a spiritual aspect of this that I think is really important for the audience to know the foundation of this conference. When the Lord brought it to me, it was first Corinthians three, first Corinthians three.

And I just want to encourage you to read through that, that entire chapter, but really how I see it is in five pillars. And that's really what the foundation of this conference is. I tell people, this is not your average business conference. It is truly based on the Bible. And these five pillars are really the backbone of the conference.

Number one is identity. Who are you? Do you know who you are in Christ? Do you know why you were created? Maybe you do, but most people don't necessarily know what their business was created for. I love this quote. Breathing is to life like profits are to a business. Breathing is essential for living, but it's not the purpose. Just like profits are essential for your business, but it's not the purpose. We want to know why were we created and why was our business created?

The second piece of this is foundation of Jesus Christ. Are you, and is your business truly built on the foundation of Jesus Christ? We're going to encourage that throughout this conference.

The third thing right in the middle is the Holy spirit. How do I know I'm hearing from the Holy Spirit? Is that the Holy Spirit? And then maybe I know it's the Holy Spirit. Do I have the obedience to walk in the direction that I'm being told to walk in? And then the third element of the Holy Spirit is mental toughness, because we know that once we're walking with the Lord. And it's not always going to be a cakewalk. And so we want to build that mental toughness into these believers as they're doing business from the inside out.

The fourth aspect of this is community. We are going to emphasize community. It talks in this chapter about quick quarreling about the silly things. We've got to get along. We are the body of Christ. We have to unite now more than we've ever had to unite before. And so we want to help you do that and see the value of community.

And then the last piece of this is we are all coworkers in God's service, and we want to send you out with a renewed sense of purpose of what you were created for. And that is to go out and share the great news of the good news of Jesus Christ. We're going to take 650 people from around the world and bring them into this environment. And I just can't wait to hear the stories that are going to come as a result of people's time in Orlando, Florida, April 18th and 19th.

Martha: Well, if people aren't excited before, they should be excited now. And we're going to keep on talking about this event until long after it's over, but we're going to get as many people there as we can.

Jim: Well, after that keynote gets announced, perhaps we can get that keynote on iWork4Him in order to do a double promotion.

Go to uschristianchamber. com to get more information about the event coming up in April 2024. Krystal Parker, thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today.

Krystal Parker: Thanks guys. This is a dream come true to be on your show. Thank you so much.

Jim: Wow. No problem And I'll get you that 20 right after the show. Hey talking about being part of something bigger than ourselves helps us stay grounded and accountable with other like minded people, like in the u. s Christian chamber. It's a perfect time to consider being a part of the iWork4Him nation where you make a commitment to see your workplace as a mission field to pray for your co workers and employees daily loving them generously and Serving them honestly praying with them when prompted and be the best and brightest employee you can be.

Go to iWork4Him. com /join the nation and trust God as you enter your workplace with him at the center. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

12/6/23 - 2019: Our Frenemy, The Internet

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace?

Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, we're on the internet all the time. Since the internet became widely available to everyone around 1994, the internet has invaded every corner of our lives, literally. Every corner of our lives, we can literally automate our thermostat, our draperies, our garage door opener, the lights inside our house.

And when we get, when we get woken up and the list can go on and on and on. So I guess that's the alarm clock thing I was talking about. This is all possible because of the internet. The internet has brought so many incredible resources, the fingertips of every day people across the globe. It makes it easier for us to do our jobs and it makes it easier for us to be able to communicate with people around the world.

Frankly, I find it amazing about how easy it makes it so that we can do research and study on scripture when I'm preparing for a speech or a sermon. But with all that good comes a lot of bad too. How do we protect those we love at home and those we work with from the dangers of the Internet? Well, Brad Hawkins joins us today to share his Jesus story and how the Lord has led him to launch a company to help protect us all from the Internet and from the creepy people on the Internet.

Brad Hawkins, welcome to iWork4Him.

Brad Hawkins: Thank you so much, Jim and Martha. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you guys having us on and being such a, such a supporter for SaferNet and just being a good friend. I really, really have appreciated the two of you. Thank you.

Jim: You're very welcome. And I'll send that 20 in the mail tomorrow.

All right. So Brad, before we get talking about SaferNet, before we get talking about the responsibility we have as believers to really protect ourselves when we're on the internet, I want to hear your Jesus story.

Brad Hawkins: Oh, you know my Jesus story has no start to it, which is really interesting. I cannot remember the day that I turned my life over to the Lord.

I just can't remember. My parents said I was really young and, and we just, we just lived a Jesus life from the beginning of my life. And you know, I, I've had people tell me that maybe I'm not a believer if I can't remember, but I've. I've been living a very foolish life. If that is the case.

I Love the Lord. I love following him. I love studying and learning about his scripture. I went to a Christian high school, went from there to a theology, got a theology degree, and then I went from there and got a business and finance degree, all listening to the Lord, hearing what he had to say and walking in that way.

Now I can't tell you that I've done it perfectly. I've had a lot of trips and fell on my nose multiple times. And, but that's the beauty of his grace and his forgiveness is that he just walks us through that and picks us up and puts us on the right path. But yeah, my Jesus story is let's just walk with him and learn more about him every day and realize looking back how foolish I was back in my beginning days of thinking I knew what God wanted me to be doing and how God, but that's just that, that's the way He grows us and teaches us and, and helps us become closer to Him as we walk.

Martha: Right. And much like your personal life with your spiritual life having ups and downs, your career has also had some serious ups and downs. What has God led you through?

Brad Hawkins: Oh my goodness. You know I started out in the investment world. I, I started an investment company and that company grew to be, uh, about the third largest investment company statewide. Not one of the national Browns by any means, but statewide in our area here.

And it just grew to the place where, I really didn't have to, I didn't have to work a lot. I had a lot of really good employees that did what they were doing. And and but I, I loved the challenge and the experience of growing a business.

So I, I had hired one of my high school friends to to, to work for my company so I put him in a place where he was overseeing the day to day and, and I started up several other companies. So I started a medical wellness company and put some people in charge of running that. And I started a oxygen delivery company and I put some people in charge of running that.

And then I started a really fun, big company and that was a LED light manufacturing company based out of Hong Kong. And we built a factory in Shenzhen, China and had distributions in six countries and we're working on an agreement with Phillips to, to sell our lights and it was, it was just a growing experience.

And so you know, the Lord had blessed us with just great favor great relationships lots of money. And I was sitting in my office one day at our investment company and my one of one of my assistants came in and said, we can't access any of our accounts. And I thought, Well, that's weird.

Talk to the guy that's in charge. And he said, Well, we can't get a hold of him. I thought, Well, that's doesn't make any sense. So I tried and couldn't get a hold of anybody. And and make a long story short uh, the guy that I knew since childhood was running a small Ponzi company for a, for a separate company, not even our, the company he was running for me. For a separate company that he had.

He was running a Ponzi scheme and the government felt like since he was also running my company, it was probably bad too. So they seized all of my assets and basically froze all the companies that I was overseeing and running and owning.

And, and so we went from having all the money in the world to do whatever we needed to do and grow businesses and hire people and influence people. And and to the point where I ended up working at a body shop. So it was a quite devastating process. But basically what happened was is that they put everything through what they call a 10 year audit, which means doesn't mean that they took 10 years, but it means they audited my last 10 years of activity.

Couldn't find anything that that they were concerned with. But they ended up putting my business associate in jail for 28 years for what he did and they dropped everything. They dropped the freeze on everything which took them two years, which basically put all our businesses into failure.

So we had to start all over and that was a devastating process. But the Lord took care of us the whole way. He, he walked us through. I was very, very frustrated, very, very angry. And it was, it was quite a journey to go through for me and my family.

Jim: So, I mean, I mean, that's just it. You had, you had a business loss. There's pain there. You had betrayal. And there's pain there. How did you keep your faith strong? Because a lot of people, when they get to that kind of end of the rope, sometimes they just end their lives. Sometimes they just, I mean, literally they don't know what to do because it is such a swing.

How did you keep - you and your bride? How did you keep your face strong and your kids used to probably a kid staying at home when that all was going on? How, how did you do it? What did you do?

Brad Hawkins: You know, that's a great question. And the answer probably is truthful to say that I didn't. There was times where I was just so, I looked at God and said, what are you doing?

I, I. I didn't do something to deserve this. Why, why am I in this spot? Do you, do you hate me? Do you, do you think that I'm I'm horrible? Why, why would you cause this to happen? I, I know that my wife felt the same way and, and you know, we kept trying to explain things to our kids and some of our kids are still struggling in trying to comprehend and understand all the details behind it.

But really I was coming home from a meeting. This is about three years after it started and I had one asset left that I was trying to sell so that I could start a different business and I could use that money to start it. And I went to the closing. Everything was closing on it. Everything was fine.

And driving back they, they said that the CEO of the company that was buying the asset decided not to do it and they're not closing. And. I just fell apart. I just broke down. I pulled my car off the highway and I was crying and and I said, you know, I God, you can do everything you can to destroy me.

I don't care. I will end up in heaven. You may not want me there. You may do everything you can to get me out of there. But I know what your Bible says. I know what the rules are. I am going to believe in you. I'm going to trust you. I'm going to live that life that you say will get me into heaven.

I'm gonna do it. And I'm gonna be at the pearly gates and you'll have to be the I'll have to be the only one that you send out if even if I do follow all your guidelines and rules. And and I just kind of fell apart and I started driving again after about a half hour of explaining how angry I was and I just started laughing and I said, you know.

I can't have any control over this. I can't do anything about this. All I can do is just keep walking. There's nothing more I can do. And I'm, I'm still walking. And God's still blessing us. I don't have any answers on why it all happened. I, I still don't comprehend it all. But I completely believe that God works everything together for good.

Now, what's interesting is he showed me. He doesn't work every everything together for good for everybody. He works for everything together for good that love Him. And if, if I understand that, that I, I love Him, well, God says if I love Him, I'll keep His commandments. And I will, and, and ask Him for forgiveness when I fail at that.

And I will continue to keep His commandments. I'll continue to ask for forgiveness when I goof that up. And I'll continue to walk in His path. And trust that he has everything else under control. Not the easiest task in the world, but that's what I'll do.

Martha: No, it isn't. So one of the things we love to talk about, and thank you for sharing all of that, because it I believe that we have listeners, their story won't look the same as yours, but they've had betrayal and hardship, and Have felt like they are at the end of their rope.

One of the things we love to talk about, and I'd love for you to just touch on briefly is how about your marriage? How through all of this, did you you know, what did you do to protect your marriage as you went through such a hard time?

Brad Hawkins: Oh, that's such a great question. And if my wife was here, she probably would have a different answer than I would.

But what I can say is what I tried to do and what she can say is what she noticed that I did. So those are two separate conversations. But you know, I I tried to keep my wife up to date on everything. I tried to explain everything to her. And, and what was interesting is in the very beginning, it probably could have been very easy for her to question me, to question, gosh, you know, nobody comes after you like this unless you've done something.

And she never did. She knew me. She understood who I was. She knew that it wasn't anything that I had done. And having her have that faith in me was was life giving to me. It was. If I had to fight that front, I don't know how I would have done that.

And God probably kept me from that. But you know, truthfully, my wife was warned about this in a dream. And what's interesting is the biggest loss that we had, we lost millions of dollars. We lost businesses. We lost all kinds of stuff. The biggest loss that we had was our reputation and our friends.

And we believe that we had friends everywhere. But what we learned is we didn't really have friends. We had a lot of people that wanted things from us. And when my wife had a dream and I won't get into the details of it, but it was basically a dream that was showed her before all this started that there's going to be a huge collision and we're going to be crying out for help from people that are our friends that are right there in front of us and they're going to turn their back and walk away.

And she didn't know what that was. It freaked her out. I remember when she had that dream at the time and she mentioned it to me. I thought, well, that's weird and just kind of went on with my day. But but God prepared her heart to at least understand that really, our friends are going to walk away from us.

And friends and family in some cases, And so I, I think that she was able to lean on that to know that, that God knew and God understood and he was going to be there with us through that process. But the truth is we both went through our different versions of depression and there was times where we didn't talk a whole lot, that we just kind of existed.

But I always did my best to be able to hear what she had to say. Where I went wrong a lot as I kept telling her what she was supposed to be doing and believing and having confidence in and not listening. But I learned as we went and, and became a little more attentive to her feelings of lack as opposed to trying to fix it in the process.

Right. But as God did it, we, he brought us to a place of, of joy through the process.

Jim: I love the setup because all of this led you to starting SaferNet. Why? Why did you start a company dedicated to a safer and more secure internet experience? I mean, you could have started anything because you had all kinds of experience in lots of different fields. Why this company? Why SaferNet. com?

Brad Hawkins: You know I can't say that I came up with the idea all by myself. What had happened was, is I, I started doing consulting for some businesses. And the company name at the time was White Fight. And they were trying to do some work on routers and they asked me to do some consulting and I said, well, in the consulting review, I looked at it said, this makes no sense.

It won't work. There's not a multiple multiplying factor to it. And I gave them a plan that they could move forward on in a business model. And they, they said, would you mind coming on and doing this for a contract and, and helping us do this? And I looked at it and said, gosh, this excites me. Your business model it doesn't excite me, but this excites me because I can see that we can put a plan together to really help people.

And one of the things that I proposed is that, you know, in any business it's always a good idea to be able to have something to give away. And I said, what if we gave away part of our security as a free pornography blocker for those people that want to block pornography and, and conquer that addiction that they might have?

And the board at the time agreed to that and said, yeah, let's do that. And that really fired me up because I, I know several people that are just dying to try to get out of this continued addiction that they have. And that's really what motivated me is to be able to say, gosh as we'll talk about it, I have this this thing that I know when I go to heaven for the first day for the first time that I see God for the first time, we're gonna go through a period of judgment. I don't know what the timing on that is, but we're gonna go through a period of judgment and I want him to be able to say some things that I've done that is well done.

And I and I fully believe that he gave us the idea to be able to give people a tool to be able to block pornography out of their world and help them be able to use this amazing tool that we have in the internet and not be afraid of being sucked into these addictions that the enemy would like to destroy people's mind with.

Martha: Yeah. So that's such a great segue because I love that you saw a business model that could give something to people that has kingdom principles that is saying, I want to help protect you from evil. So let's, let's go into that a little bit deeper and just talk about overall, what is SaferNet all about?

So we've kind of, kind of glossed over it a little bit. So tell our listeners what SaferNet Is and why we're so excited to be talking about it on iWork4Him.

Brad Hawkins: Yes. SaferNet is an app that goes on any endpoint device and an endpoint device is a laptop or a cell phone or a tablet or anything at the end of the internet that you, that access the internet.

So it's an app that goes on any endpoint device and it puts that endpoint device and puts that phone or computer into a encrypted tunnel to go through the internet. And as it goes through that encrypted tunnel, we're able to scramble everything so that if somebody gets to your stuff, they can't, they can't know what you're doing.

And number two we put in this, uh, this virus protection inside the tunnel so that if you get to a place that has bad stuff that would like to put it on your device or on your network, we block it before it gets there. So it's a, it's a VPN, it's a virus protection, and then we have 200 internet controls to allow an administrator to manage all of the devices connected to their SaferNet account.

What that means is that you can turn on and off the internet. You can turn it on and off portions of the internet, meaning pornography or, or there's 84 other filters you can put on there. You can see all the traffic, see where everybody's going and, and agree or disagree that this is okay. You can see all the, what we call entourage of all these external things trying to get to your, your devices to try to steal information off of it.

Not only do we block all that, but you can see all that happening in real time. There's, so what we're doing is we're making it very simple, including the three most important parts of cybersecurity into one app, and giving it to individuals at a very low cost.

Martha: I love the fact that you explained that so clearly for us to understand because this is something that is very critical in our homes and in our workplace and to be able to have that view where somebody as an administrator can look and say, this is happening and we are seeing it being able to protect people from places that they shouldn't go or the attack that they could be having and that you did such a great job of explaining that.

Jim: And we know how important it is to protect ourselves from the enemy and from the internet. I mean ever since it came around. Because Satan said, you know, he's there to prowl around like a... Jesus said Satan's here to steal, kill, and destroy. And that's what the internet is there to do. But safernet. com Has I mean we've been working with this now Brad you have become a ministry partner of iWork4Him. And so I've been using this heavily and It's amazing how easy it was to put on all of our devices, how to be able to track all of our devices.

And I tested all the controls to see, okay, if I try to go here, what will it do? And it just, it says, no, you're not going there unless you put in the password to get past it. And then it's going to be notated that you put the password in to get past it. But I love the console because everybody on the team, you can see what everybody's doing, where everybody's going.

And it's, it's such a great tool. And we just want to encourage all of our listeners to go out there and check out SaferNet. com, SaferNet. com. It is a powerful tool that is inexpensive, reasonably priced for every business, for lots of different computers and phones and tablets on your business, but also for at home.

So Brad, how does SaferNet help create a safe and controlled internet experience at work? And then I want to ask at home before we run out of time today. So what are you doing to help make internet safe for everybody in my office?

Brad Hawkins: But really our, our goal is to work with small to medium sized businesses because truly most small to medium sized businesses do not have any idea what they're doing cybersecurity wise.

So now we're not necessarily the end all, there's other cybersecurity tools and devices that maybe medium sized businesses would need. But what we would do is we'd put a a an app on every endpoint device. So every computer in the office, every cell phone that goes out of the office, every computer that goes out of the office and keep them all safe all the time.

Now, one of the things I didn't mention, and I'm pretty excited about is that we have a 24 always on policy. So what happens is, is that if you turn off your device and turn it back on SaferNet turns on with you. So you're not running the risk to say, Oh gosh, I forgot to turn on my VPN when you walk into Starbucks and, and decide you want to sit down and watch something.

Or there's

Jim: also something. You're saying that I can go and I'm not a Starbucks guy, but let's just say I go to McDonald's and I want to use their free Wefie because it says free Wefie right at the front door. If I go in there and use it with safe for now on my computer, does that mean I'm actually safe when I'm surfing at McDonald's?

Brad Hawkins: You're safe when you're surfing at McDonald's. Absolutely. You know, what's interesting is that I was actually in a hotel doing payroll with my computer. Now in times in past I would never do that except for behind a firewall because I'm accessing my bank accounts or whatever. Now I'm completely safe because I'm operating within an encrypted tunnel that nobody can see or access even using somebody's Wi Fi.

Jim: Let's talk about home.

Martha: Yeah. So tell us about home then. So I understand you see it with lots of computers and all the employees and stuff, but what particularly is the focus in our homes that is set there for us?

Jim: I think this is really powerful. I love it.

Brad Hawkins: It is. And it works exactly the same way as a business.

So in a business, you've got an administrator that wants to oversee and make sure that everybody using the Internet is safe. Same thing with a mom or a dad that wants to oversee their their kids. They want to make sure that their kids are not going to places that that are going to mess with their brains and help them think about things incorrectly and that kind of things.

And so what happens is, is that the administrator can go in there. They can put an app on every device, you can narrow the usage down to two or three websites if you want to. You can narrow it down to very specific filters of things. You know, it's interesting, there was a lady that came up to me one time telling me that I saved their daughter's life.

And I thought, well, that's an exaggeration, but I'd love to hear the story. . Mm-Hmm. . But she explained that she was struggling with bulimia and that she, whenever she got on the internet, all she saw was beautiful, thin, perfect girls. And it had formed a look, a picture in her head of what she was supposed to look like.

And she was doing everything she could to number one, get there. And number two, destroy her life in the process by filtering out beauty and all the different pieces that she was seeing, her mom was able to go in there and control all those pieces and block specific areas. It gave her the ability to do her homework for high school and not get attacked with images that were not necessary for her future. And it's really amazing how you can control that.

Jim: What I love is that feature where you could have that teenager that's driving you crazy and, and they're just hold off in their bedroom. You can shut off the internet on their devices and just say. No internet for you right now.

Your phone can dial out. That's it. I mean, that's a powerful feature for a rebellious teenager to me.

Brad Hawkins: Exactly. It's time for dinner. Guess what? The internet goes off. That's pretty quick and easy. Just press the button. Bloop.

Martha: I love it. It's powerful. You know, I'm going to just take a minute here and talk to the listeners.

Because a lot of times when we talk about things related to a business only, people kind of turn their, turn it off. Because they're like, I don't have decision making power. I don't have the ability to bring this to my company. But everyone has the ability to bring it in their home. And I, I think starting there for some people, that could be a good first step and say, see it for yourself.

A lot of people, we are, we'd like to live in denial that, that bad things could happen to us, but the reality is there's people working really hard to make bad things happen. And this is one. way to protect ourselves from things we may never know. It's that, you know, that Amy Grant song, you know, where the, the, you know, we didn't know if a car, you know, went out of control.

I don't remember all the words, but you know, we never know what we've been protected from. And I think that for the listeners, give this a try in your home, but If you have the ability to take it to your work, then you've got that experience.

Jim: Really, all you need to do is contact SaferNet.com, have a chat and let them do a demo for your business.

It will blow your mind, because I know the way these things are packaged together, you'll spend way more for each individual pieces, and again, elsewhere. You mean elsewhere If they bought five different pe, if they bought web filters and a porn filter and they bought A VPN and they, and they did the malware, the, the antivirus stuff.

You'd spend more money and this is all packaged together and it works. It really works. And these guys are kingdom. This is a kingdom business focused on the king growing the kingdom. It's a great ministry partner of iWork4Him. We would love for you to check out SaferNet. com Brad before we're done We've had some fun with this because there's so many naughty people on the internet.

We've decided to launch a separate podcast Just to focus on the cyber criminals of the world, and we called it the Digital Desperados Podcast. We launched it just a few weeks ago. Digital Desperados is the name of the podcast. When we're covering the stories and how SaferNet might be able to save the day in those situations.

That's been, that was your first podcast experience, wasn't it Brad?

Brad Hawkins: That was, and it's actually been a lot of fun. It's been really interesting doing the research on all these cyber criminals and talking about them. It's really fascinating to see how it all comes about. And I'm really surprised at what country keeps hiring all these cyber criminals and keeping them out of jail.

Jim: Huh, that country may be located on a large continent.

Martha: Well, maybe they need to listen. With a six letter word, yeah. Maybe they need to listen to the show to find out.

Jim: Digital Desperados. And you can check it out. We've listed, we've put it out there. Did we really put it out there?

Martha: No, what I, no, I just, I, there is.

Digital Desperados. We'll have it right in the link. We'll put it in the link in the notes. And you know, I just think it's, it's a great way to get some exposure to understanding what's really happening. You know, some of us live very much with our blinders on. And so Digital Desperados is just a great podcast to help show people what's really going on and why it's important to have digital protection.

Jim: Guaranteed you will enjoy the conversation because one of our co hosts, Patrick McMurphy. He's got this phenomenal Irish accent and it just adds a whole nother flavor as he tells the story of these criminals It's been a lot of fun. I mean, you know, we're highlighting the life of criminals We're talking about how you know, you know, I always ask It's like these are serious people Brad.

Can you stop this guy? Cuz this is some pretty creepy stuff All right. Final question. We got to go. We're way over.

Martha: Well, I just want to know you know, you have an audience that has been riveted by your story We, we, our audience has been, so are there any final words of advice for those that are listening in living out their faith in their work?

As God has maybe taught you a lesson.

Brad Hawkins: Oh, you know, I could probably talk for hours on that one topic.

Jim: You got 30 seconds, so you go ahead.

Brad Hawkins: But, but you know, I, I would say the, the one thing that has brought me through and redeveloped life inside of me. Is realizing how much God wants to tell me and communicate with me and guide me through his scripture.

And if, if I just leave my nose in the book and listen to what he has to say and ask him whenever I can, what I need to be doing next. He will walk me through whatever difficult things that are laid out there. If I'm dredging through difficult things and I, and I believe and trust him he's going to take my hand and walk me right through step by step and I don't have to be afraid.

Jim: Those are some great words. You know, Martha, the digital desperadoes podcast, digital desperadoes podcast, as I mentioned before, is such a great podcast to help our listeners learn more about the importance of digital protection, but finding good podcasts, talking about faith and work, that can be tough.

We have a solution for that. The Awaken Podcast Network, we have put together over 150 podcasts centered around the conversation of faith connected to work. We invite all of you guys to check out online, AwakenPodcastNetwork. com, AwakenPodcastNetwork. com. We put new titles on there almost every week that we find about that discussion.

And maybe you, our listeners, know of one that you want to mention to us. Just send me an email. Jim@iWork4Him.com . Jim@iWork4Him.com. We love inviting you out there to the AwakendPodcastNetwork. com. Brad Hawkins from SaferNet . com. Thanks for being on. iWork4Him today.

Brad Hawkins: Thank you so much guys.

Jim: You've listened to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.