11/29/23 - 2018: Kids Need YOU to Teach Them the Truth

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet, online SaferNet. com. You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. So what does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: The workplace and ministry place and mission field of the public school. I don't know about you but I have all but given up on the public schools. Most, but not all, are being run by people who do not have your child's best interest in mind.

Government control and influence of outside interest groups are destroying the fabric of our public education system - where playing with your child's identity is more important than teaching them to read, write, and understand math. But, there is hope. The Bible is being taught in some public schools of America and the government knows about it.

How is this possible and legal? I'm not the expert, but we know someone who is an expert and is bringing the over the country. Kori Pennypacker is with us today from Bible 2 school.com, Bible 2 school, the number 2 school.com. She has an incredible workplace ministry mission field story to tell us. Kori, welcome to iWork4Him.

Kori Pennypacker: Hey, thanks for having me. So glad to be here.

Jim: So, Kori, before we get started with talking about Bible school, we really want to hear your Jesus story.

Kori Pennypacker: Oh, and I love to tell my Jesus story. I grew up in a very traditional family but as a kid, I did not, it was all in my head, but not my heart.

So, I didn't really know Jesus like I thought I did but I got married. I'm a veteran Navy wife now, but back in my Navy wife days my husband went out to sea a lot. They go, they go out. Did you know that? That they do that? And I learned that I couldn't rely on everybody else. I had to rely on God.

So, I was invited to a women's Bible study. So, anybody out there who invites their friends to women's Bible study, it works. I became a Christian not long after that. So it was, it was a very interesting ride because I thought I knew Jesus, but I didn't. It wasn't in my heart. It was only in my head. So I was about 24 when I became a Christian.

Martha: Such an encouragement to all of us to hear, like you said, you know, if you're one of those people that are inviting people, you know, it does make a difference? And your story is a testimony to that. So, how did God lead you to caring for the kids of the public school system?

Kori Pennypacker: Well, I actually started still in my Navy days. I had a, I went to a church where the children's ministry director invited me to be a volunteer for the two year olds at VBS.

I didn't even know what VBS was. And I said, sure. And I certainly didn't know that nobody wanted the two year olds. I thought that was an honor to have them. But I love, love, love these two year olds. And I became their Sunday school teacher. And I was really, it was a game changer for me. We got out, ended up getting out of the Navy and moving back here to Pennsylvania, that's where we're from.

And my husband's job was at home, so it was great. I ended up becoming a children's mission director following in that footsteps. Now, I was tapping people on the shoulders saying, hey, come on, come on along and join in. And then my husband's jobs changed again, and he was traveling.

He was traveling to the West Coast a lot during the week, and then I was doing stuff on the weekend and you guys are married. You know you actually got to see each other to be in a marriage. So, I reluctantly stepped down. I Was children's ministry director of a very large mega church. When I was a preschool coordinator where we had 400 babies a weekend. It was amazing. Yeah, so when I sat down, I was like, okay, what do I do now? And I ended up volunteering. I hear about this organization called Bible 2 school and I'm like, wait a minute. I'm sitting there as a children's ministry director waiting for children to come to me.

And there's, you know, they just keep coming and coming, but there's a whole lot more out there in the community, and we can go to them, and that intrigued me, and I ended up volunteering, and there was a little boy in a small group. His name was Gabriel, and he had came to, he was living with his grandmother, didn't know who God was, and he was in my small group. And he ended up listening to the message and accepting Christ as his Savior in a large group.

It was amazing, came back to my table and said, I said, Gabriel, you know, tell me about that. He said something I totally will never forget. I get choked up every time I talk about it. He said, I've always wanted to know how to get to heaven, but no one's ever told me. And I thought, oh my gosh, these kids are in our public school, they're right down the street from us and they don't know who God is.

So Gabriel kind of pushed me into this volunteering and then being on staff and now I'm CEO of Bible2School.

Jim: That's a great story. Love love love the Gabriel story. It's not the first time we've heard it So is the public school system a ripe workplace mission field?

Kori Pennypacker: Oh Absolutely, and I didn't even know how ripe it was honestly, Jim, until I got involved. You know, the church attendance we hear that keeps going down and down you know, I think the latest Gallup poll is 20 percent of America goes to church.

Think about how that trickles down to kids. They don't even know who God is, and we hear that every week. Who's God? I've never heard of Him. And that's kind of scary. I mean, that really is, it breaks your heart. Cause kids aren't even seeing, like, when I was young, there was like a little house on the prairie, and you know, it was in culture.

God was in culture somewhere. He is not now. I mean, He has definitely been, they were cleansing Him out. So I just, the one other thing that broke my heart is a recent study done by Arizona Christian University that says kids between the ages of 8 and 12, which is elementary school they don't even understand the, the Cornerstones of our faith. Like the God exists like I said or that they're sinners and they they need a savior. I mean if you don't think you're a sinner, then you don't even need a savior.

Do you know, the last thing that that really got and grabbed me on that article was that they don't even understand - we know this; the truth It's not, you know, it's relative - but they don't even uphold that the Bible is understanding a complete, you know, reliable place, source of right and wrong, of truth, so those are the things that, that is out there, so it is a ripe, ripe mission field. And then there's the biblical worldview too. You guys know that there's only, their parents only have a 2 percent biblical worldview. So that's 2 percent of them have it. So it's, it's scary.

Martha: Loaded, loaded question for you. You know, just touching the surface, we see that the workplace of the public school is a ripe mission field for the staff and for the kids. So here's a loaded question. Is there still hope for the public school system and the children that are attending them?

Kori Pennypacker: I love that question, Martha. Absolutely yes. I tell people this all the time. There is hope. This is the other side of this darkness that they're talking about. The Bible is the word of God, is light and People are attracted to that light and kids are searching for truth They are so relieved when they hear that God made them, God loves them, God has a plan of purpose for their life, and Jesus Christ died for their sins. And they don't have to worry, believe in him and they don't have to worry about eternity.

 God's got it. And he's got their, got their eternity and the way we are able to interact with them, then they go and tell their parents and they go and tell their siblings. We have so many kids that come and say yeah, I told my little sister about this. She knows all about it. She accepted Christ as her savior, too.

Isn't that cool? That's very cool. And then you were saying about even people in the workplace. We love public school teachers. We love principals. We love Superintendents. When you all come around, the community comes around them, kids, in a positive light. They want to see good things for these kids, and they want to see positive role models.

There are some bad players, I hear you, I understand stuff that's going on. But on the whole, we have great people out there, and this is something that you can, you know, get connected with them and give them something positive and be like, oh wow, those Christians really want to interact with us and want to help us and want to support these kids.

Martha: You know, and we're going to talk a lot more about what this is, Bible2School. com, where people can go find it, and they'll get the links in the notes. You know, we love talking about children, and as we talk about them today in the public school, I'm reminded of how vulnerable our children are when they're on computers.

And what can start as a very innocent search for a, a homework assignment can lead to a really dark place on the web that can lure them into an unsafe environment. And we at iWork4Him are so pleased to partner with the SaferNet VPN, which helps us with that protection. So SaferNet. com is easy to set up and it has 84 filters to help keep distractions away.

So we use SaferNet at home and here at work and encourage all of our listeners to do the same. You can check them out at SaferNet. com

Jim: Kori, from your perspective as an expert in the field, what are public school kids facing?

Kori Pennypacker: They're, mainly they're facing, I would say two things. They're facing counterfeit, constantly coming at them.

What looks good, sounds good, everybody's accepting of it. But things aren't true. We know. Gender identity and evolution, the sanctity of life, you know, all those things are coming at them that aren't true. But they, it sounds true. So how do you figure out what's counterfeit?

You study the truth and you recognize the truth. So that's why I have hope. Because of, of that but the other thing that I, I want to say that that's coming at them is fear. You know, if you are a Christian kid, how do I live my faith in school? And you know, there's fear of separation of church and state. I know everyone out there has heard that. There is not separation of church and state like you think it sounds because it's really a separation of state and church. There's no state church that's going to be - the government is not going to establish a church

 The public school actually It's supposed to be neutral and protect children's religious rights. So, you know, Jesus can be a part of holidays, of Christmas. You can say Jesus at Christmas, it's his birthday. You can have Jesus in your homework assignments, in your jewelry, in your clothing, in your music as part of your day.

And I just, that's something that we try to really kindly educate people, but kids are facing this, we can't say this, we can't say that, we can't do this, and it's not true. It's not true. So back to that counterfeit part.

Martha: You know, I love that. And I just want to reiterate it. You're saying counterfeit and fear. Those are, you know, you really boiled, nailed it down to just a - boiled it down. I guess you didn't nail it but boiled it down. And you know, making it very clear that, you know, there are some simple things that get very complex that they're dealing with.

So, help us to understand how we can help to protect other people's kids, you know, that just might be naive about what is actually going on in this school. And then, you know, I'd also love to know how we can support teachers in that same conversation.

Kori Pennypacker: Sure, wIth helping others know -it's relationship, everything's about relationship, and just getting to know the other moms or parents.

And just getting to know them to, to let them know you can talk about God and you can have Bible classes like we have. And, and just really, I know there was one mom when, my kids were young that there was a movie that, that we were supposed to sign off on and we didn't sign off on it, you know?

And we went into the class and our teacher and said, you know, Hey, This really isn't appropriate for our son. It's a rated R movie and our son is eight, you know, like, well, why, why would we do that? You know, and this, this other mom was like, oh, I didn't, I signed that, but I really didn't know what I said.

And I thought, you know, just even simply just talking among yourselves of what's going on in your school and how you can support your child in, in, you know, keeping things protected, if you will, or yeah. And also preparing them is what I was trying to say. Prepare them for what they need.

Jim: So, we know that teachers, administrators, you know administrative assistants, the para professionals that are within the schools, there's a lot of believers in those.

And that is, the public education system is in fact their workplace mission field, how can we support them?

Kori Pennypacker: I would say keep them build that relationship again, like I was saying but what I usually do is thank them for what they're doing. I would give them positive feedback when they're doing something good, you know. They often and i'm a leader, too, People just love to tell you what's going wrong, or what they're, what you're doing wrong.

Tell them when they're doing something right. Catch them doing something right. And, I know I send emails to our superintendent and say, hey, that was a really great speech you did. You really handled that issue really well. So that when there is something like, Hey, I don't agree with this movie that's being shown or something that you have credibility, that you have, it's a conversation. It's not an attack.

And so just really respecting our teachers and letting them know that you're partnering with them. They're not the enemy and you're not the enemy. And, and you both, again, have those kids' best interests in mind for them. So and sometimes they just they have different points of view and you can kindly tell them your point of view.

Jim: I love that. Find something they're doing good and highlight that. You know So often as christians we are confused by what we can and can't do especially when it comes to public schools. Over the years, we've addressed this topic in so many different ways with lawyers and employee resource groups, so many different ways.

I just want to encourage you to subscribe to our podcast to stay connected and find the past shows that might answer some questions you've been asking that we answered already. And we'd love to make as a resource to you. You can find us on your favorite podcast platform and subscribe as well as sign up for our weekly email and have the podcast come right to your inbox. Just go to iWork4Him.com/subscribe, and we can stay in touch with you on a weekly basis.

Martha: So, Kori, let's answer just this basic question. Can the Bible actually be brought back into the kids public school?

Kori Pennypacker: Yes unequivocally yes. They can, there is something that we do called release time.

And release time actually is a court ruling supported back by the U. S. Supreme Court from 1952 that says you can release children from school for at least like one hour a week once a week and they need to be off site. They need to have parental permission. And you can't use any tax dollars. That is the federal Ruling that you can do that so you can actually have a bible class during the public school day

Jim: All right. So bible school is a solution you're bringing to the public school system. Let's talk about it in detail. What is it and how can we get it to a school near you? All right, just start it start with what is it? Just go into some detail.

Kori Pennypacker: Sure. Bible2School is a non profit that equips moms, dads, grandparents in communities to build teams and to implement a Bible program in their local public school.

We give them curriculum and website and coaching and just all kinds of good stuff to bring to them that they can implement a Bible class. We do elementary, we have an elementary program. So we have second, third, and fourth grade and we teach you to teach them about the Old Testament, the New Testament, discipleship.

But the kids go off site, so it's a little challenging, and we've been doing it for 40 years, over 40 years, so we have a lot of experience behind us, and we have a franchise model, so we actually teach you to fish, and we teach you everything you need to know about doing this program, and give you all the tools you need.

Martha: So, I'm the person that always is like, show me what this looks like. So, I'm thinking, I'm listening to this show, and I'm thinking, I've never even heard that my kid's school has a release time. Like, can you even, like, how do you break that barrier to even be able to have Bible2School?

Kori Pennypacker: Well, we teach them how to build the teams that you can go and talk to the Principal.

So we actually teach you how to talk to principals. We teach you how to recruit volunteers. We teach you how to raise funding to do this and bring in other people like business leaders. And we can't do this without business leaders. We can't do this without pastors. We can't do this without parents.

So we bring them all in under the Bible2School program. And we teach you how to, how to do that, but yeah, it really isn't education because a lot of principals, I know what most people say is, what do principals say about this? They say, wow, usually they haven't heard of it, and then they go to their solicitor, which is their lawyer, and they find out, oh, you can do this, and then they try to figure out how to work together.

And we at Bible2School make that really smooth, because we have a lot of programs going on.

Martha: Because you've already tried all the different ways and figured it out, right? So you have that ready. I love that it's a franchise model. So it's like, here's everything we've got best practices on.

Jim: Here's what to do and what not to do. I usually figure out the what not to do faster than I do the what to do. All right. So how do you get these kids off campus?

Kori Pennypacker: Either bus them or walk them to a church or a community center nearby. We even have one, we have an electric company that we use their basements because they were right near our school.

So. Business leaders out there, you are very very important in this type of program. But yeah, the Funding you need to get a bus funded - because again, it can't be any tax dollars - So that transportation really is a key key part of it.

Jim: So This is once a week. So According to federal laws what you're saying is that once a week kids are allowed to be released for religious education. And I grew up in minnesota, and I know all my friends went to catholic, you know catechism class, basically every Wednesday afternoon, they got out earlier. I'm like, really?

Martha: early, early release. Yeah.

Jim: So, so this is already legal. That part is easy, but finding the volunteers, finding the funding, finding the teachers. The leaders - that's a big part of what you're doing every day. How are you expanding when you start in pennsylvania? How many states are you in now? And where do you want to go next?

Kori Pennypacker: We're in three states right now. We're in pennsylvania, idaho and tennessee and we want to get a spark in every state. I'm so glad you asked that question. Our heart is to get a spark in every program in every state. And then what happens is, and we're finding this, especially in Pennsylvania, where we started, is that the next district over is like, wait a minute, why don't we have that?

We actually have principals calling other principals saying we want that program. Because it's good for the kids, and it's adult role models coming in and spending time with them and coming alongside the school. So, we actually would love to see this in every school in the United States, whether it's us or another, another organization.

We don't care. We just want the Bible , His Word to be given to these kids.

Jim: Really want to bring the Bible to school. And I think it's important that we recognize That the school public school system is our kids' workpalce. That is their mission field. They're called there. Their work every day is to learn and to study and to interact and to learn how to do the things that they're going to use later on in life. And often we just think of it Well, it's just school but it's not. It's a mission field. There's all kinds of lost and hopeless kids. There's more today lost and hopeless than ever It's so So important that we recognize that - Bible2School. com

Kori Pennypacker: And I gotta, I gotta quick tell you one thing, that there was one little girl who wanted to come to Bible2School for three years, and her, and her parents said no. The third year, this year, her friend wrote a little note to her parents and said, please will you let her come to Bible2School? And she let him come. So, like, kids can be amazing evangelists with their friends.

Martha: Most definitely. You know, we have listeners in every state, and so every listener that's right now listening, or you need to share this podcast with a friend, to really prayerfully consider how can Bible2School be a part of your public school system, your kids education, your community? I believe that we could really make a difference in all 50 states. So Bible2School. com is the website. Is there anything else about how the listeners can get involved?

Kori Pennypacker: Well, just get, get involved with the website, but I gotta tell you too that there's 53 percent of our kids this year have no church home. So if you're looking for a place to plug in and make a big impact with people in your community that don't know Jesus, this is a great way through the school. Everybody can come around kids.

Martha: That's so good. You know, as we talk about involvement in things like Bible2School, it's important that we have involvement in all different areas of our life. And sometimes it's direct and sometimes it is you know, like Bible2School, getting involved in running that program.

And sometimes it's more passive, like supporting a cause financially where we're already spending our dollars. What if a percentage of every cell phone bill could support faith, family, and freedom? Patriot Mobile is a wireless provider that does just that. Through good service and pricing, their money helps to fund ministries like iWork4Him while providing a service that everyone is already using.

Jim and I recently switched to Patriot Mobile and are enjoying great cell service across the country and supporting the work of iWork4Him at the same time. So I just want to encourage each one of you to go to PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him and you can sign up today.

Jim: Kori Pennypacker, great conversation, great bringing this to everybody's attention about how they can get involved in public schools and how every public school would love to have Bible2School as a early release program.

You just need to know about it. And thanks for bringing it to our audience for your workplace mission field which is the public school system. We're grateful. Thanks for being with us today

Kori Pennypacker: iWork4Him is a great organization and I just really am honored to be on here with you today.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers our workplace It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him!

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Did you know that god has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him , and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number four him. com.

11/22/23 - 2017: A Business You Can Believe In

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet, online at SaferNet. com.

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field.

What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, if you're in business or you work for a business, the ultimate aim for almost every business is to make money. And when you make that money, there has to be a plan for where the profits go. What is amazing in today's world is that so many companies take their profits and support campaigns and ideologies that are completely the opposite of the biblical worldview that the United States of America was founded upon.

Where we spend our dollars makes a huge difference. Today we're going to explore the roots and origins of a company dedicated to God, dedicated to the family, and dedicated to supporting the United States of America. That country is Patriot Mobile. Founded upon Christian values and living them out daily in the marketplace.

Patriot Mobile is taking a stand in an industry filled with companies taking the opposite stand. Scott Coburn joins us today to tell us the story of Patriot Mobile and his own story of living out his faith at work. Scott Colburn, welcome to iWork4Him.

Scott Coburn: Well, hello, Jim and Martha. It's a pleasure and an honor to be with you guys.

You know, we love what you guys are doing. We love taking time to tell you a little bit about what we're doing, our story and what we have going on. So this is just a pleasure. So thanks for having me. It's great.

Jim: It's great to have you. And I want to start off with just the real importance of it. Scott, what's your Jesus story?

Scott Coburn: Yeah, so my Jesus story is is an interesting one as they as most of them are but I grew up in a somewhat religious family. I like to say a under the spirit of religion and without much of a concept for a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and about 12 years ago I had an encounter with a living God.

I went on a, I went on a quest with a, or a ministry called Fellowship of the Sword. And it's literally five and a half days running after God's heart with your Bible in your hand and just running after it. And it changed my life. And since that day I have given my life to the Lord. I live every day for Him.

You know, I, I just try to put it in his, in his hands and it's, it's just wonderful. And it's just really nice to be able to come to a company like Patriot Mobile where we're encouraging our employees and we're encouraged to bring Jesus into the workplace and we can pray together, we can worship together, we can minister to each other freely and openly, which is, like I said, incredibly refreshing.

Martha: What a great atmosphere it sounds like. Thank you. So Scott, with the journey that God has had you on in your own spiritual walk, how has your work been affected by that? How, how do you let your work be impacted by your faith?

Scott Coburn: Well, it's an interesting question because literally the, the day I got back from, from that quest I was talking about earlier God spoke very clearly to me that He wanted me to have a career change.

I left corporate America literally the week after I got back from my quest and I started my own marketing agency called pro V3 media, and that was short for Proverbs three, and there's so much meat there in Proverbs three that I felt I needed to build a business around. And I spent the next several years growing that agency.

And then as I continued on and found myself here at Patriot Mobile I became very aware that I needed to be a place where I felt led and I felt like God had his hand on what I was doing every single day at work and where I felt a passion to come to work every single day.

And I'll tell you, it's been two and a half years now here at Patriot Mobile and I, I still get out of bed every morning and I thank the Lord for this opportunity because I really do feel like what we're doing here individually, but collectively as a company too, is making an impact on the kingdom and is making an impact on our country, and as far as defending our God given constitutional rights and freedoms.

Jim: It's incredible to hear how God led you to Patriot Mobile. Love that story that your faith really, you're like, Hey, I need a place where I can do this on a daily basis. So saying that you're going to let your faith impact your life as you're living out your faith in corporate America is one thing. Being able to actually do that and being able to sustain it while working in a pretty cutthroat industry like that cellular carrier industry is another thing. Tell us how, how is it possible to live out your faith to the fullest while you're living and working in corporate America? What does it look like for you?

Scott Coburn: Well, you know, it's funny Jim, I get asked that question all the time. They said, Hey Scott, you know, you work for a company that outwardly says that we are Christian. Like what, what is that like? I get asked that often. And here's the way I answer that. Personally you know, I go back to the scriptures in Matthew when, when God gives us the great commission and he says, we are to go out and make disciples and I can't find anywhere in that scripture where it says, go out and make disciples on Sundays and Wednesday nights and maybe reel a few in on Christmas and Easter.

No, it says go and make disciples all the time, including in the workplace. So you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't take an opportunity to bring my faith into my workplace every single day and minister to people and try to make disciples. I think that is really, when you talk about the Great Commission, that is what we're really commanded to do in all aspects of our life.

And we're able to do that here at Patriot Mobile. And like I said, you know, I'll go back, take a step back to really God opened the door for me to come here to Patriot Mobile. This job found me. I didn't find this job. I mean, literally God threw open a door and I ran through it as fast as I could. And, and I believe that that's part of my story every day here is seeking opportunities to spread the good news, to encourage people, to lift people up in their faith. And to make disciples.

Martha: You know, so as you talk about that, Scott, in making disciples, a lot of times there is a resource or someone who has come alongside you to help you in that time of growing as a disciple. Is there something that's been impactful for you, whether it's a book or an organization or I don't know, a ministry that has helped you in that journey?

Scott Coburn: You know, there really has been a couple of different things. I still stay plugged in with fellowship of the sword. We're a tight group. We still do monthly breakfasts and I have found myself fortunate enough to get with a small group of men. We have seven of us that meet every Tuesday morning for the last 12 years.

And that, that's who I do life with. And I'll tell you, it's refreshing to know that I have an accountability group. I have a group of men that I can go to and when I walk in the room on Tuesday mornings for coffee or breakfast, they read my mind. I mean, they know if something's not right, they're like, okay, Scott, let's talk it out. Here we go.

And, to me, that's essential, to not individualize and not get carved out of the flock. We've got to stay together and, and have men and women in our lives that encourage our faith and that we can go to and grow together.

Jim: You mentioned there was a couple of things. So the Fellowship of the Sword is one of them. Has there been another resource, a discipleship ministry or a book or something that it's also been a heavy influence?

Scott Coburn: Oh, yes, for sure. And we, so I don't know if anybody from Patriot Mobile has shared this with you guys, but we have the honor to have Pastor Rafael Cruz here every Wednesday in our office and he leads a Bible study.

He's been doing this for more than two years now, and this is our opportunity literally, to get away from work, to get into the Lord, to have Rafael come in and give us a teaching and, and open it up for discussion, and it's been such a blessing. Not only that, but Rafael comes around quite a bit, individually, one on one, if I need prayer, or I need counsel, godly counsel, or if I need to talk to somebody.

He's always there for that. And that's, that's hugely important in addition just to having a bunch of like minded people surrounding me here at work that I know I can lean on if I need, if I'm having a bad day or I need to seek out some prayer or counsel. I've got dozens of people around me that I trust with my heart and I know they have my best interests in mine and I can go to.

Martha: You know, it's so good to hear those things because a lot of times people - like I'm, I'm the kind of person I want to see what it looks like. What does it look like for someone else as they're walking things out daily? And at iWork4Him, we love talking about those resources and organizations that are helping people to better connect their daily life and their faith.

And you know, a lot of people refer to that as whole life discipleship. You were talking about discipleship. And Jim and I are just really excited to be a part of several events in the next year that really are going to focus on that for people. So listeners, I just want to encourage you to go to our events page at iWork4Him. com forward slash events. And there you're going to find out about some things that are happening around the country in 2024, that you can participate in and learn more about connecting our faith and our work in many different aspects. So just want to invite you all along on that journey.

Jim: Yeah. Super excited about some of those things.

All right. So Scott, can you tell us the story of Patriot Mobile? Why does it exist in a crowded field of mobile carriers?

Scott Coburn: That's a great question, Jim. And, and I'll tell you. I'll first start by saying that, and you guys know this, but maybe some of your listeners don't. So we are a cell phone service provider, and we're a really good one, right?

We offer nationwide coverage across the country, the, the best 4G and 5G networks, all of that. We check all the boxes that say that we are a cell phone company. However, our mission has nothing at all to do with cell phones, right? So our mission is to defend our God given constitutional rights and freedoms, and to do so in a way that glorifies God.

Now, the genesis of Patriot Mobile goes back 10 years, and about 10, actually 10 years ago this month, we're celebrating our 10 year anniversary. Actually, tomorrow night. So ten years ago our co founder, Glenn Story, and, and another associate of his saw an opportunity, and what they saw was there was a progressive cell phone provider on the left that was funding progressive causes and doing it very well, making a large impact, giving millions and millions of dollars to progressive causes.

And they looked around and said, you know what? We don't have anybody on our side doing this. So that opened the door for the idea of Patriot Mobile. And that's really what we try to do. We are the only Christian conservative alternative in the cell phone service space. So if you want to align with companies, like we've been talking about building this parallel economy and supporting like minded companies, we are the only alternative in that space.

And so that was really the genesis of Patriot Mobile and why we came to be. We're just providing a place for people to switch their cell phone service and make sure that their values and beliefs are being supported at the same time.

Martha: And that's so powerful because Jim and I are very sensitive to like where our money goes. Everybody, we don't think about the profit side of it and what it's supporting. And yet we know there's a lot of organizations doing things that we don't believe in. So Scott, take a minute and talk to our listeners and tell them why would it be impactful for them to, to switch over to Patriot Mobile?

Scott Coburn: Absolutely. And so what we do at Patriot Mobile, how we carry out our mission, well, we, we start by carving out a portion of every dollar we earn and we donate it back to Christian conservative causes and we focus our giving on four key areas. We call these the four pillars of our company. So those would be first amendment, second amendment, sanctity of life, and we support our military and first responder heroes.

So what we do is we carve out a portion of every customer bill that is paid to Patriot Mobile and we donate back to causes that align within those four pillars. And last year alone, we were able to give away almost 2. 4 million back to those causes and our goal is to give away even more this year and beyond. I mean, we really, our heart is to grow this and give more. That's really what makes us different than the main cell phone carriers.

Jim: So how do you choose those organizations? I mean, because it seems like you should have somebody full time vetting those organizations because there's some organizations that say they're pro God, pro family, and, and pro country, and yet 95 percent of their dollars go towards administration and 5 percent goes towards, you know, what they actually say they're going to do. I'm not going to name any actual organizations, but how do you vet them? How do you choose them?

Scott Coburn: That's a great question, and one we get asked often, actually. The way we do that is we have a committee and we meet as a group every other week in the committee, and we review all of our giving, where the money is going, and we actually have a very stringent process by which we vet each organization.

We look at their past. We look at their leadership. We look at the impact that they are making with their dollars. We want to make sure we're picking organizations and supporting organizations that truly get the most out of every dollar donated. So we take them through that process. We get to know their leadership, we build a relationship with them, and then that's how we choose those.

And you know, like I said, we get a ton of new opportunities and new causes to support all the time. And that's great. We want to support more causes. However, we do want to make sure they align within those four pillars that we talked about. And we do want to make sure that they're being good stewards with, with the money that's donated.

Jim: Yeah. What you just described, Scott, it's what every company being driven by Christian values should be doing because most companies driven by Christians, and I don't call them Christian companies because they can't, you know, companies can't be saved, so that's just one of my nuances, but people in leadership who love Jesus are running these organizations.

And they want to give money away, but you got to have a good vetting process. And I love the fact that you got a committee and you got studied people studying it. That's fantastic. That's great advice for anybody listening. Anywhere your money goes, you should know where your money's going and how it's being spent.

And I love the fact that you guys are sifting through that and making sure you're making a good decision. That's great, great example for everybody.

Scott Coburn: Absolutely. And I'll just say one thing. I 100 percent agree with that statement. I don't believe that God blesses businesses. He blesses people. And the people here are really what, what make up Patriot Mobile.

Every single employee in this building and across the country that work for Patriot Mobile, they're not here simply to draw a paycheck. They are activists themselves. They believe in the mission, they're boots on the ground at our events and at the causes that we support, they're supporting with their own personal money as well, not just what we give as Patriot Mobile. This is what really makes us different- down to a man. We feel like that we are making a difference and that we're going to just continue to grow.

Martha: You know, and I can really vouch for that, because we've met several of the people that work for Patriot Mobile, because we have recently become affiliates of Patriot Mobile here at iWork4Him, and working with the people that we have had the opportunity to do that with, We've seen firsthand their belief, not only in the company, but all that it stands for and their faith and the excellence and the follow up.

Fantastic. So people that know us know that when we get a hold of something that we're really excited about, we want other people to know about it as well. So this, I would love for you to just take a moment and tell our listeners, you know, what does that mean for, iWork4Him to be an affiliate now with Patriot Mobile?

Scott Coburn: Yeah. And that's, that's, I love telling the story of guys like you that really understand and they get it. I mean, it's, it's really is about finding other partner organizations to work together and build the kingdom that way. Right? And so when you partner as an affiliate with Patriot Mobile, you truly become a partner.

We want you using the service. We want you to experience what it's like to switch your cell phone over to Patriot Mobile. We want 100 percent U. S. based customer support. Who will, by the way, even pray for you. If you have a prayer need, you know, who does that, right? I mean, you call in to get a cell phone service signed up and they're going to pray with you. That's that's just what we do, but we want our affiliates to really experience what we're about in our heart and really have the opportunity to get to know us, not just our service, but get to know us as people. And I feel like you guys do a wonderful job at that and bringing us into the fold, telling our story, telling your users about what we do.

And, you know, switching over is, we've made it quite easy. I mean, with you guys as an affiliate, you just go to Patriot Mobile. com/ iWork4Him and you're going to get all the information right there, how to switch. If you use the code, iWork4Him, you're going to get free activation and we were going to get, take care of you guys that way.

And then, and then in doing that, what we do is provide 5 percent of every customer bill that comes through iWork4Him to Patriot Mobile, we provide that back to iWork4Him, the organization, every month. So again, this is to help fund the ministry and to help grow their mission and their ministry and really get the word out on there and what they're trying to do to grow the kingdom. That's what we believe in with our Patriot Mobile affiliate program.

Jim: You know, as Scott has been sharing with us the heart of Patriot Mobile, it might give some of you pause as you contemplate, who does my cell phone carrier support and where are those dollars are going? You know, every month, every one of you listening has a cell phone.

I haven't met somebody without a cell phone. We live in a small town in Southwest Missouri. Everybody here's got a cell phone. So if they do here, they got them everywhere. How much you spend on a monthly basis makes a difference. And where those dollars are going makes an even bigger difference. We would like to encourage you to check out Patriot Mobile, go to our affiliate link: patriotmobile.com/iWork4Him. that's I worked the number 4 him.

You can learn more about making the switch and intentionally voting with your dollars, because when your dollars walk, your dollars talk. And all the while, while you're doing this, when you switch to Patriot Mobile, you're blessing iWork4Him and giving us the ability to continue broadcasting and sharing the stories of people living out their faith at work.

We'll definitely have the link in the show notes for reference later, but once you make the switch, make sure you tell a friend, tell us so we can thank you and encourage all of you to let your dollars support biblical values as well, a biblical worldview. It's all about God, family, and country. PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him

Scott, so excited, you know, for - really for eight years, we've been talking on the show about biblically responsible investing. And I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but it's basically what you guys have done as a company. There is financial planning around this whole idea that you only invest in companies that are at least neutral on cultural conversations or pro biblical worldview.

And so everybody in our audience is already familiar with this idea of of investing in companies that don't fight us every day, that aren't paying the enemy to fight us, and so that's what makes us even more excited about Patriot Mobile. You know you you guys are a company run by believers dedicated to honoring Jesus and being committed to him and all that you do. You know, people get confused by the language of a christian company but we know that really what you're doing is honoring God at what you do. Explain what that looks like on a daily basis.

Scott Coburn: So it really boils down to this, right? I mean seek God, listen and take action, right? Everything we do, every major decision we make here at Patriot Mobile, we put before God first and that in and of itself at least gives us the notion that, Hey, what we're doing is in God's hands, right? Nothing takes God by surprise. You guys know this.

We believe in living out our lives at work every day here for God and putting him first in everything we do. And when we do that, it takes all the burden off of us because we know it's his will. We see it, we see it all the time, right? I mean, when we went and put all the in God we trust posters back in the schools - I'm not sure you guys had heard about that story. But we gave over 3, 000 posters to school districts all over Texas, and there was a Texas law passed that said if you present these In God We Trust posters to these school districts, they must prominently display them in every school in their whole district, or their whole ISD.

We gave away, we've given away over 3000 of those. And again, when that happens, we get attacked. People say, well, Patriot Mobile, why are you doing this? Well, because this is what God told us to do. We prayed about it and we acted on it. So that's just one example of many of things that we just, we put it in his hands and he just shows us the way to go.

Jim: Wow. That's great. Great Governor too, that says, Hey, look at this stuff.

Martha: You know, it's so great to hear those very practical, very big impactful in this case, you know situations of you as an organization coming together and saying what can we do about it? You know, it's so much more than the hardwired Cellphone and how the wire gets across the country and all that good stuff, But how you're living out in the practical ways every day I love that. And I know when we were talking before the show you were talking about Bible studies that you have in your offices and things like that too, so You know, just is there anything else, Scott, that you would like to share about your leadership that might impact our listeners today before we go?

Scott Coburn: You know, as far as my leadership style, you know, I have a wonderful team. I tell my sales team all the time, I have the best group of salespeople in the world, and I really believe that I empower them to, to do their thing, to do it their way. I think because we work with a group of very strong believers who are strong in their faith, I trust that they go to the Lord, you know, frequently with their daily decisions.

And it helps them, gives them the strength and the courage to carry out their jobs that quite frankly can often be difficult just because we do go out there as a Christian company and we are under attack frequently. It just gives us the sustenance that we need to, to carry on. And that's what I try to lead by.

I try to lead by example. I don't always you know, sometimes I fail, like we all do. But I also know what it looks like to have forgiveness and to show forgiveness and to seek, to seek prayer. When you know, in James 5:16, it says, you know, that we lay our hands on each other and we pray for one another so that we may be healed. We carry that out here in the office frequently. And I need prayer as much as the next guy. So that, that's how I kind of live my day to day life here at work.

Jim: So when you fail, as we all do, what's different about how you handle your failure?

Scott Coburn: Well, first of all, we know we're going to fail. That's, that's a given and we don't let that take us by surprise. Most importantly, we know when we fail that we learn from it, right? And if there's, if it involves repentance, we repent and we move on. That's how we grow. We grow by continually learning from our mistakes. And to again, seek the hand of God. When we do make a mistake, to show us the correction that we need. And that's not just in our personal lives. That's in how we run the business.

Jim: Yeah. Mercy Me had so many great songs. One of the greatest songs that I love is Dear Younger Me, you know, as Bart has gone, Holy smokes, I wish I'd have known some things.

So what is it that you, Scott, would love to have told, love to tell if you could go back and tell your 25 year old self one thing, what's one thing you wish your 25 year old self would have known?

Scott Coburn: Well, when I was at 25, I was a very different person. So I would go back and tell myself what are you doing?

You know I would have to tell myself, you need to be seeking God's face and you need to be in the word daily. That's the biggest thing is trying to get in the word daily. I noticed a difference in my life. When I get in the word first, I give God my first and my best every day.

When I give him my first and my best, I set myself up for a good day. And if I could go back to anybody that's younger, that may not have found the Lord yet, or may just be earlier in their walk - give the Lord your first and your best every day, and you're going to have a good day.

Martha: Hmm. Such good words. Thank you for that. And Scott, it's been so great getting to know you and more about Patriot Mobile during this episode. And, you know, like I said before, getting to know the staff that we've been working with is why we are so thrilled to be able to share with our listeners that we are affiliate now with Patriot Mobile.

So we're going to put the link in the show notes, PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him, and I would love for each and every one of you to take some time, look at it. You know, this is just one area of our life that we can say, Lord, I want to make a difference with it. I'm spending the money. Where's that money going and how can it better go to serve the kingdom? And by making this switch, it's a great way to be able to do that with Patriot Mobile.

Jim: Scott Colburn, Chief Marketing Officer for Patriot Mobile. Thanks for being with us today on iWork4Him.

Scott Coburn: Well, thank you, Jim and Martha so much. God bless you guys. God bless all your listeners. And we'll talk to you guys soon.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers and our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online at SaferNet. com

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Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit IWorkForHim. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com I work the number 4 him. com

11/15/23 - 2016: Won't You Be Our Neighbor?

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online SaferNet dot com.

You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. So what does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, Thanksgiving begins the most wonderful time of the year. It makes me want to start singing. It's the beginning of the holidays. Eggnog is on the shelves and I'm super excited. It's a time where families gather and together we celebrate all the great things that God has done during the previous year.

However, for Thanksgiving, on Thanksgiving, some, it's just a miserable and lonely time. Is there a solution to eliminating the loneliness and the misery of people being alone for the holidays? There is. It's called the power of neighboring at Thanksgiving. You can Wow. Now I've done it.

Martha: He said, I am not gonna start over.

Jim: Right, so I'm not gonna.

However, for some, Thanksgiving and the rest of the holidays are just a time to be miserable and lonely. Is there a solution? There is a solution. The power of neighboring at Thanksgiving can bring joy and happiness and a new level of friendship to some of your neighbors that you live near and you work with.

Thanks for tuning into a special iWork4Him, Thanksgiving edition. I would say that was probably the roughest open we've ever had Martha.

Martha: Hey, but I'm thankful for you.

Jim: I'm thankful for you too. And for the power of editing, but we're not going to edit that stuff because you guys just need to know that we're real. You know, we wanted to spend time today talking about Thanksgiving and how you can transform Thanksgiving.

It's just one of those holidays that, you just, for crying out loud, shouldn't be alone. So where did this idea come from, Martha? This idea of the power of neighboring?

Martha: Well, I think, Jim, over our marriage, for a lot of years, it's been a very important part of the fabric, really, of our marriage and our family.

And then it really culminated this fall when you actually got to preach a sermon at our church on the power of neighboring, where you were able to really look at all God has taught us through the years and put it into a format.

Jim: Yeah. And we really learned a lot of that. I mean, both of our parents - growing up in our parents also, they did some neighboring things.

I think your parents did a really great job of instilling the power of neighboring at Thanksgiving time. And so I love that, but you know, I got this idea of the power of neighboring from the good Samaritan story and Jesus just had a lot to say about the power of neighboring. I mean, that one religious ruler came up and said to him, You know, how do I, you know, how do I get eternal life?

And he says, you know, love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself and obey all the commandments. And the guy goes, well, I've done all that stuff. Well, then get rid of all of your. No, then he says, well, who's my neighbor?

That's what it was. Did I just totally blow all of that?

This is iWork4Him unplugged today, that's what this is. I mean, the guy says the says, who's my, well, who's my neighbor? It's kind of being a smart mouth about it. Well, because he says, love your neighbor as yourself. Well, who's my neighbor? And so Jesus says the good Samaritan story, which turns out, the priest comes by and the guy that got beat up, he walks on the other side of the road and then the Levite comes by, which is also a religious worker comes by.

He probably owns his own 501c3 and he, he walked away on the other side. Then the Samaritan who is a despised half breed Jew that they hated and they actually walked around the part of Israel that was Samaria because they didn't even want to be associated with those people, that's the guy that took care of the guy that was the hurt Jew.

That's neighboring. So who's my neighbor today?

Martha: Well, that's a great question because...

Jim: you're my neighbor. We are, yes. Won't you be my neighbor?

Martha: We are each other's neighbors, but it's so much more than that because I think a lot of times people only think about the people that live near them. But if the Good Samaritan was being neighborly to somebody, he didn't even know that person, nor did he know where he was from.

I mean, he didn't take him home, Jim. He took him back to, he took him somewhere to be taken care of, to an inn. And so he didn't even know where he lived., but the whole point is, is that we don't even, we know they didn't live near each other because they were of different breeds and they, you know, didn't get along, but he cared for him.

Jim: They were human beings. They were different cultures, different nationalities.

Martha: Yes. I think everybody understands what I'm saying, but a lot of times we think about our neighbors, just being the people that live on each side of us and in front of us and back of us. But in the context of iWork4Him, we love to think about the neighbors that we work alongside. So whether we're on the phone with people all day, or we actually are in cubicles near each other or down the hall from each other. I mean, all those are people are our neighbors, because God has put us in proximity to them to have relationships.

Jim: Or maybe you work in a store and your neighbors is somebody that's taking care of the aisles two aisles over, or maybe you work in a used car dealership and it's the guy that's working in detailing. I mean, you don't, you don't know your neighbors are those people that you're around during the day.

Martha, we learned about the power of neighboring personally in our own marriage when we lived in Florida for 20 years. We lived in two different homeowners associations, which that's a whole nother story for a whole nother podcast.

Martha: They could listen to your sermon. I'll put the link in the show notes.

Jim: That's right. That'd be a good idea. But needless to say, homeowners associations, they really help you to learn how to never want to go to prison. Okay.

Martha: They mature you.

Jim: Yeah, they do mature you. Okay. So what we saw, we lived in a homeowner's association, 30 townhouses right near the beach in Indian Rocks Beach, Florida. And the people that were in charge of the association, they enjoyed the power. And the neighborhood was really divided. And there was a lot of angst. And, and we just decided we wanted to change our neighborhood. And so one of us had to run to become president of the association. And I volunteered Martha because she's way more full of grace and could tolerate a whole lot more stupid than I can.

And so Martha ran for president and I said, I'll do whatever I can to help you. I just won't have an office. And we then made a point to know every person who owned every townhouse. We made sure we knew all of them. We got a chance to pray with them.

And basically with Martha as president, eliminating rules that were ridiculous and supporting things that were really pro neighborhood, we transformed that neighborhood by loving our neighbors, didn't we?

Martha: We did. And I think, I don't know, maybe this is just my personality, but what I want to point out is we didn't move in there and go, we're going to change this neighborhood. It was out of a desire to have a place where, you know, people were waving at each other and friendly to each other. You know, sharing the cup of sugar when you need to make chocolate chip cookies, right? Because that's really important. So having those relationships and we just desired that.

And so we just felt like the Lord said, you know, do what you can to be neighborly and to help this actually feel like a neighborhood and that's that's where what those actions came out of.

Jim: And it was so important to us to get that done and we were able to get it done just by loving on people and getting to know their names and other kids names of their grandkids names or whatever it was.

When we left that neighborhood, I cried like a baby. It was the greatest time ever in a neighborhood because we really loved people. I don't know. Was it weird though? They all helped us pack our truck to move. They were ready for us to go.

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Martha: So let's talk about how all of this power of neighboring, Jim, applies to Thanksgiving because that is really the question because we're talking right now just a little bit before Thanksgiving so that we can have a conversation so that we don't miss it. You know, there's nothing worse than going Oh, I didn't tell you about that sale that was last week.

No, it's about oh i'm telling you we're having this conversation a little bit ahead of time so we can actually make some changes in what we do even this year.

Jim: You know, Martha, one of the things that I always - okay It bothered me a little but now I look back and it was very very cool. But your parents were really good at this. They were really good at inviting people over for Thanksgiving who were going to be alone.

They were really good about Looking and whether it was people they worked with, people they went to church with, whether there was neighbors or somebody that we were in a Bible study with, we had lots of different people over. I mean, Martha and I have been together, we've been friends for 40 plus years.

We've been married for 37 plus years. And so we've had a lot of Thanksgivings together and your parents were just really good at inviting people over.

Martha: You know, I was thinking about the fact that Thanksgiving is kind of a safe holiday because you're not gift giving. So it's not this weird, Oh, I'm inviting you over, but you've got to give gifts, you're all just eating right and being thankful.

And it's not, at least in my experience, it's not a divisive holiday. It's not one, you know, we, we go to the historical truth of our country, and we love Thanksgiving. Well, because I know some people try to make everything divisive and, or, you know, and get angry about things. But the fact of the matter is Thanksgiving is a holiday to be grateful.

 My mom always said, put a little more water in the soup, right? You can make it go a little further to invite more people in.

Jim: I never saw your mom do that.

Martha: She did. Yes. There was always plenty of food at the Hains household. There's no question about that. This is really not an excuse to say we're not going to have enough food. Like my 15 pound turkey won't feed enough people or whatever. How many of you have ever not had leftovers after Thanksgiving?

Jim: Always have leftovers. You always have leftovers. Always. In fact, you cook for the leftovers. That's part of the deal.

All right, so the question is, who do you live near or work with that's gonna be alone at Thanksgiving? And do you even know?

Martha: How do we find that out, Jim? What do you think?

Jim: Hi, I'm Jim. I'm your neighbor. Are you going to be alone at Thanksgiving? What are you doing for Thanksgiving? Oh, or you can do that at work that maybe you peeking over the cubicle and go so what do you do over Thanksgiving? Yeah, I mean, just find out. I mean, there are people that we know - all of us colloquially - that are going to be alone at Thanksgiving. Now, honestly, there are a few people that may actually want to be alone, but most everybody, if they're alone, they're not doing it because they want to do it.

They're doing it because they, their family's gone, or they're alienated from their family, or it's a recent divorce, or they're too far away geographically from their family to go home for a short weekend. So, you know, find out who's gonna be alone and then invite them to your family. It's going to change things.

Honestly, I grew up in a household where inviting strangers or inviting people that weren't family over for Thanksgiving, it just didn't happen. Martha's family was really good at it. My, my dad just didn't.

Martha: Well, just think about it this way, is that you can tell all of the family stories and you have a new audience.

Jim: Yeah, this is joke number 74 again and maybe that new person will laugh. Your grandpa Frank would be so proud.

Martha: He would love that. But, you know, really, it's really about just shifting that perspective and saying. You know, how can we bless this person? And they're going to bless us in return. It's that whole give to get thing because you just you're you're together.

Jim: And it really transforms Thanksgiving Day because I mean think of, the conversation is gonna be fresh and it's really gonna be an encouragement to so many people to actually invite them. You're inviting them into your world and it's powerful because it gets you a chance when you love on people like that It gives you a chance to tell them about Jesus, whether they know Jesus or not. You're going to pray for the Thanksgiving meal. You're going to have, it's going to come up in conversation. You're going to change somebody's life. If you invite them over for Thanksgiving, and that's why we're doing this podcast this week. We want to challenge you, invite some people over for Thanksgiving who are going to be alone. And maybe you don't find anybody, but at least you tried.

Martha: You know, so one of the things that I think about in context of that, Jim, is just the fact that as a child, when we had different people over in our home, like, they just became a part of the family. Like, not like, oh, now I got to get him Christmas gifts and stuff, but it just was an extension and it felt really good. And to just, I don't know, have that camaraderie and that fellowship with additional people was a special thing. So just want to think about that.

Jim: I mean, it's, Thanksgiving is just a great, it's a great time.

Martha: Well, Thanksgiving is, like I was alluding to earlier, really is a holiday that is at the root of how our nation was born.

And something else that really celebrates our nation's roots is Patriot Mobile, which is a conservative wireless carrier that actually supports our God given right for freedom. So we recently switched to Patriot Mobile, and we're so grateful that our dollars are fighting for freedom and not against it. So you can check out patriot mobile by going to patriot mobile. com forward slash. iWork4Him. I'll have that in the show links as well, and you can support the work of iWork4Him while getting great service.

Jim: They got access to all of the towers of all the major carriers And frankly since we've switched it's just been, it's been pain free. Love it. Patriot mobile. com forward slash iWork4Him.

So what kind of Thanksgiving traditions do you have that will promote being thankful? That's something around the Thanksgiving table we recommend you gotta at least ask one question. I know Martha's mom was one of these. She would always ask. Well, what are you thankful for for this year?

And of course, I always, if you're really a smart guy, you'd say, well, I'm thankful for my wife. Cause he'd be smart. You'd be an idiot if you didn't do that. Try to encourage conversation like that around the table. As much, as much as I give your parents a hard time about this, Martha, it's a good thing.

Martha: You know, but it was good. You were probably wishing that we could have dessert. And they maybe did it before dessert or something.

Jim: Never make those questions before the pie. Never before the pie.

Martha: And then have the conversation. But you know, I think it's, it's almost, it would be sad, it would be sad though, if you didn't have that conversation.

 You're together, you're gathered with people that you care about. You've had a wonderful meal, no matter what it is, whatever your family traditions are, for the food and the menu and the dessert that you really do spend some time being grateful. You know, I have a journal that I've started using in the last year, and a lot of people I've talked to do this as well, where every day they write three things down in their journal that they are thankful for or grateful for, and then three different things the next day and three different things the next day.

And if we are really, truly digging deep, we'll never run out of things that we can be thankful for. So you know, Thanksgiving's just one of those times where we finally articulate it out loud to the other people in our families and, or those gathered around the table.

Jim: Yeah. A caveat, when you're inviting people over for Thanksgiving dinner, a lot of times people ask, Hey, bring over your favorite dish. If they can't cook, don't ask them to bring something.

Martha: Just ask them to Go to Village Inn and get a pie, right?

Jim: Oh, if there's a Village Inn nearby, make sure you get a French silk pie. That'd be good. That's not Martha's favorite, but it's mine. But you can give them something that's easy, like the dinner rolls, get them squishy Hawaiian ones or, you know, like the pies or the cranberry sauce in a can.

Martha: You're just like you could have your own little DIY show here.

Jim: Have them bring the stuffing. I don't know, but

Martha: Not the stuffing. The stuffing's hard. In fact, I'm glad my mom's coming this year because I told her you got to walk me through making this stuffing.

Jim: The family stuffing recipe. It is pretty good.

Martha: I don't have it down.

Jim: No. Alright, but be thankful this year and help others to be thankful by inviting them over for Thanksgiving dinner. This really helps to fulfill number three on the iWork4Him nation pledge. Remember the iWork4Him nation pledge is just, how do you activate your faith at work?

Number one is to start praying for your coworkers and employees by name each and every day, because when you pray for people, your heart starts to change towards them and it gives you an opportunity to have conversations with them. Number two is look for ways to serve them over and above what your job requires you to do.

That's great, do that at work, but number three is get to know them, befriend them outside of the workplace. Thanksgiving dinner is a great way to do that because you can invite them over into your world and love on them and feed them because food is the international language of love. But feed them and and really get to know them.

Let them experience your family, even if it's dysfunctional. Oh, yeah, all families are dysfunctional. Let them see it all. It's okay. You're just being real. Jesus never expected any of us to be perfect. He just expected us to be loving on our neighbors. So make sure you do that. But remember the number four part of the iWork4Him Nation pledge.

When you see somebody come in that they're normally up, and you know what their regular demeanor is, and they just seem a little down and out, just ask them how they're doing. And when they respond I'm fine. You say, really? Freaked out? Insecure? Neurotic? And emotional? Really? How are you doing? Then shut up and listen.

And when they're done sharing, say, hey, thanks for sharing that. Can I pray with you about that right now? Nobody's ever told me no. And that'd be a great way to invite them over for Thanksgiving. I'm sorry that you're having a bad time. Want to come over for Thanksgiving? We're having a crowd of people and We'd love to have you.

Martha: You know, I was thinking as you were explaining that too, Jim, is spending Thanksgiving with some people that maybe you work with gives you a new level of relationship.

Like, you know, them in a different way outside of work with their hair down a little bit, maybe around their cooking. Maybe they're a foodie, maybe they actually, you know, going to introduce you to some new things that you've never had before. You know, then Monday morning you have something new to talk about with them. And you can tell if their demeanor was different if you saw them in a different way than you've ever seen them at work, you're going to know them differently now going forward. These are all just little tips to help us when we're in our workplace to better be able to relate with those people that we work with so that God can open the door for that conversation to go further into Jesus Christ.

And like you were saying, Jim, you know, praying over the food, giving God the glory, being grateful, those are all things that maybe other people haven't had modeled in their own home. We have no idea what other people's experiences have been like, but getting them to see our experiences helps them to see the light of Christ no matter how imperfect we may be.

Jim: And you know, we do know this one thing, we've all watched Thanksgiving movies where everything falls apart. Even if that's at your house and you end up throwing food at each other, they'll have something to tell about. And then you'll have those inside stories. You'll have that, you know, you'll have that bond, the common bond over thrown mashed potatoes.

It's just, it's a great thing. Well, I just, our biggest encouragement is this: you got neighbors, whether you work with them, you live near them. Somebody's going to be alone. Invite them into your home for Thanksgiving or wherever you're going to have Thanksgiving and include them in the day. Don't let them be alone.

That's just the worst. It's, what did I say in our, our daily power thought that we've got going out this week? I said, that's just a big fat bummer. It just really is. But we are grateful for you, our listeners, super thrilled, ten and a half years of doing this podcast and radio broadcast, and we're grateful for you.

Thanksgiving isn't the only time for us to let you know this, but it's a great time for us to remind you that we are grateful for you. Giving Tuesday is the Tuesday right after Thanksgiving, and we could use your support. It's a time when our country focuses on supporting work that we believe in.

Consider giving to iWork4Him.. Go to iWork4Him. com forward slash donate during this giving season. Remember the thousands and thousands, now it's tens and tens of thousands of people that have been impacted by this ministry, help us to impact more in 2024. Oh, that's a good one - Help us to impact more in 2024! Go to iWork4Him. com forward slash donate And we are thankful for you.

You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online. SaferNet. com.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

11/8/23 - 2015: The 5 Best Languages to Speak at Work

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet, online at SaferNet. com.

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field.

What does that look like in your world? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Jesus told us in Luke 10:27 that we are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. So who are our neighbors? That's really a great question. In fact, somebody asked Jesus that question.

Today, we're going to focus on a super powerful tool for the workplace. A tool that can be used to make any size company or organization radically successful because it places value on the people. Is it a tool of love or a tool of appreciation? We'll let you figure that one out. Dr. Paul White has written many great books that we've highlighted on this show in the past, such as Rising Above the Toxic Workplace, The Vibrant Workplace, and The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace.

And today we're focusing on The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace once again. Dr. Paul White, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Dr. Paul White: Thank you, Jim and Martha. I'm glad to be here.

Jim: So, Dr. White, are our employees our neighbors?

Dr. Paul White: Well according to the context from the passages in Luke I would say so. There are people that are in our daily contact that have needs that we have the ability to, to touch and serve.

Martha: Hmm. So good. You know, and I just want to take a moment and pause on that because we need to really believe that and to really think about it, Jim, and to think about. You know, you are my closest co worker, and yes, you're my husband, but you're also my neighbor in that context, and, and as we think about that when we're around people every day, this conversation is going to make a whole lot more sense.

So, Dr. White, you took the five love languages by Dr. Gary Chapman, and you partnered with him to write the five languages of appreciation in the workplace. Why did you think that that was so necessary?

Dr. Paul White: Well, it came out of an experience that I had working with a family owned business in North Carolina, and we were doing a business succession plan.

And I asked the dad how the plan was going, and he said, I think it's going well. My son's stepping up. I think, you know, it'll work. I walk across the hall and ask the son the same question. And he said, this is a disaster. It's never going to work. I can't ever please my dad. And which I could relate to. I grew up in a family owned business. It was very, very tough.

And I thought, you know, they're missing each other. And I thought, I wonder if, you know, the five languages could work in workplace relationships. So I pursued Dr. Chapman, and he agreed. And so we took it from there.

Jim: Okay. But you changed it from love languages to languages of appreciation. Is that just because we're talking about work? I mean, isn't it okay to talk about loving our employees?

Dr. Paul White: Well, you know, most of the companies and people that use our materials are not followers of Christ. And to talk about love in the workplace is weird to them, to be honest, and it creates this sort of, you know, back off kind of reaction.

And so we felt, because from the get go, we wanted to design this in a way that could be used in any workplace, government, schools, military, and all that. And so, we chose not to write it from an overtly Christian perspective. Obviously christian principles, but we felt like, you know, appreciation is probably the best substitute term and concept in the workplace. And so that's the direction we went.

Jim: I mean, it totally works. Just saying, imagine I'm just riding you a little bit, but it totally works. And I get the context because. You're right. Love tends to.. People are like love? I don't love my employees. Oh, I can appreciate them though. That makes sense to me. And it really, it's powerful.

All right. Sorry, Martha, jumped in there with that one.

Martha: No, that's okay. And I think we all know the world has hijacked some words and distorted them so much that it's hard to find the true meaning that we're trying to talk about but I love the fact that biblical principles work on everyone whether they know where they're coming from. We know it's a foundation for all of this work and it's so beautiful. So what is the principal message of the five languages of appreciation in the workplace?

Dr. Paul White: Well, I would say it's a combination of messages. One is that Employees and co workers are people, that employees and people at work aren't just producers. They're not production units. It's not just about the output, that we have lives outside of work, we have personal characteristics that we display at work that aren't related to productivity, and that we all have value as people beyond productivity and that not everybody feels valued and appreciated in the same way.

Yeah, the goal is to help people learn how to communicate appreciation to their colleagues in ways that are meaningful to the recipient versus doing things that don't really impact them. So you're not wasting time and energy.

Jim: People are complicated. So this is a concept that, you know, it takes, it takes a little bit of time to learn because people are complicated, but appreciation seems like that's not so complicated to let people know you appreciate them.

When managers and employees and even upper management, you know, the C suite people, when they start to understand these five languages of appreciation in the workplace, what kind of light bulbs start going on in their corporate minds?

Dr. Paul White: Well, you know, I don't think it's so much about when they understand it, but when they see the results, because what's fascinating is we all would like somebody else to value us and what we do.

Yeah, we have to motivate ourselves, but it's nice to know someone else does. And when that happens, things start to work well. I use the image of sort of like oil in a, in an engine that without oil in the engine, the parts, you know, have friction, they stick, there's heat, there's sparks, and it just doesn't work well.

And I think appreciation is like that in a company, that it creates space and a fluidity for the team members to work together well, and what happens is the leadership starts to see the positive things come about within the company as far as greater productivity, more cooperation and lots of kinds of things that research has demonstrated.

Martha: So, talk about the effect on the employee. So in most cases, we want to focus on the top two languages probably that people really respond well to when they take the quiz and we, of course, should probably talk about that. But when, when a manager knows what those top languages are and starts to use them in their communication with the employee, what happens for the employee?

Dr. Paul White: Well, first, one of the things that we found in work that's different than personal relationships is just knowing the language or the top two languages really isn't sufficient. We found that you need to know the specific actions because there's different ways to spend quality time. And in the workplace, you can write a note or you can, you know, announce it in front of the group.

And some people like some and others don't. When you get both the language and the action right, It's sort of like, you know, pushing a button that turns a thing on and all of a sudden you see the lights go and it's whizzing and it really motivates and affirms people.

And one of the things that happens is they just, especially over time, they just sort of relax and become less irritable, less chippy, less reactive, because they have a sense that you value them, and little things that otherwise might, you know, offend them, they sort of let slide. And so there's just really sort of a peace that starts to happen and the whole workplace becomes more positive and healthy in its way it's communicated.

Martha: Well, and that's what I was just wondering, what then are you seeing as the overall impact to the culture of the organization?

Dr. Paul White: Yeah, well, there's a lot and in the second chapter of our book, in fact, we just rewrote it and it'll be coming out here pretty quickly, you know this, beginning next year.

You know, increase productivity, people get stuff done, less turnover so you don't have to have empty spaces, people show up on time, there's more cooperation, there's less on the job accidents reported, there's less employee theft, customer service ratings go up because you're dealing with somebody who's a little more engaged and cheerful.

And so a lot of positive things, it's sort of like you're, you're seeing, if we want to again use the machine image, it's working, it's doing what it's supposed to, versus having to deal with side issues of people being upset about what parking space they have or what size their monitor is or those kinds of things

Jim: So I would say it's safe to say that the industrial revolution was not started based on the premise of loving or appreciating our employees. Many big businesses, many big business people needed workers, and many workers needed jobs, so they fulfilled one another's expectations, but very few of those workers felt loved or appreciated, at least not noted in the history books.

The Five Languages of Appreciation written by Dr. Paul White and Dr. Gary Chapman highlights the necessity of tailoring your interaction with those you work with according to how they receive appreciation at work. Did you even know that 40 percent of those you work with prefer words of affirmation as the primary form of appreciation?

The other, the other languages of appreciation are quality time, acts of service, tangible gifts, and appropriate physical touch. Each of these has a detailed description within the book and on the website appreciation at work. com Appreciation at work. com. I recommend

 I got two questions that I didn't tell you I was gonna ask but i'm gonna ask em anyway. Does this work in a manufacturing environment, a corporate environment, a non profit environment? Does it work in all different kinds of environments, or does it only work in white collar corporate world?

Dr. Paul White: You know well, we're being used worldwide in at least five countries by Caterpillar. We're used by financial firms, banks, every branch of the military, World Vision, Salvation Army, a number of Christian schools, public schools. We haven't found a place and actually even what is it? The National Security Agency, whoever the border patrol people are.

Jim: Don't tell them, don't tell them. They might, we don't want, we don't want to talk about it.

 (laughter)

Dr. Paul White: You know, we haven't found a place yet. I mean, in, in prisons and courtrooms all over the place. It's really about understanding and teaching people, not just leaders. One of the things we've found, it's really across colleagues, how to show appreciation in the ways that are meaningful.

And one of the cool things is it's, it's not that hard to learn or remember or implement. At first, I was sort of embarrassed about how simple things are, but that's really been a saving grace where most people don't have a lot of time and mental energy to you know, learn new stuff. And so it's easy to implement and that's really been fun to watch.

Jim: And we're going to talk about that in a second, but let me just ask a simple question. Okay. Let's just say any organization listening today, whether it's a small business or a large business or some kind of organization in between, if they actually start communicating appreciation to their employees, does it impact the bottom line? I mean, is profitability impacted here?

Dr. Paul White: Yeah, absolutely. There's one very cool study that shows that it does. They compared two similar companies, one that had implemented appreciation concepts, one that didn't. Everything else was the same. 22 percent more profitability. It's so much so that both in the EU and now the Securities and Exchange Commission are starting to require that publicly traded companies post what they're doing around caring for their employees because they're seeing from an investor point of view. It's better to invest in a company that takes care of their employees than those that don't. So yeah, it does for sure.

Jim: Wow. That is huge. That's an insider trading tip here. You heard right here on iWork4Him.

Martha: So, you know, here at iWork4Him, we're always looking for tools that can help the Christian business owner or the leader to be more effective in leading their people and perpetuating the organization's mission, because that's a really key to the next generation. So the five languages of appreciation can help every leader to show appreciation appropriately to the different employees, which helps them to feel valued like you talked about. So how easy is it for implementation of this within an organization?

Dr. Paul White: It seems to be easy because it keeps growing across hundreds and thousands and across, it's used in 60 countries. Our focus is in 25 languages, our assessments in 9, so it seems to be cross cultural as well, and I think a key is one of the things that we always do is we don't encourage just to do a top down implementation, everybody's got to do this, because that undermines the perceived authenticity just from the get go.

So we like to teach people the overarching concepts, but then sort of start with a pilot group or two, and work with them and have them implement it. And there's always little tweaks that we can do to make it better for their culture and their structure. And then what happens is it sort of creates a positive peer pressure where some of their colleagues in a different department say, Hey, how can you guys get to do this and we don't? And then it just goes virally across the organization.

Jim: You mentioned an assessment. How does this assessment fit into the process?

Dr. Paul White: Yeah, it's called the Motivating by Appreciation Inventory. We call it the MBA Inventory. And with the book, there's a free code to take our basic assessment. But we've created expanded versions for different industries.

Schools, government workers, medical, veterinarians, military, all different kinds of settings. And it essentially is an individual assessment, takes about 15 to 20 minutes to take online, creates an individual report for each person. We can also create a group summary report. So a team finds out how everybody likes to show appreciation or be shown appreciation and it provides sort of the the ground rules of, okay, this is what they like. And actually in our expanded version, we have people share what they don't want so that you don't sort of accidentally make a mistake and create some offense.

Jim: So how does your team help with this whole effort in getting this accomplished, getting this orchestrated within an organization? And does it matter what size the organization is? So we have a lot of people that run small businesses that listen to iWork4Him. Can, does it work with a small business as well as a big one?

Dr. Paul White: Yeah, I think you need two people. I mean, one might be tough, but

Jim: Jim, you're doing a great job today. Thanks so much, Jim. Really appreciate it, Jim.

Dr. Paul White: So a small, a small organization for sure. And that's how we started out and have inner city ministries and schools and churches. And then it grows to any size, really. And that's one of the other cool things is we really tried to design it to be a low cost in comparison to a lot of career and work based assessments.

So that, I mean, I mean, we're working with companies that have tens of thousands of employees. And over time, as we sort of launch it across the frontline workers can take the assessment. And they really enjoy that. It's not just for management and executives.

Martha: You know, I think that's one of the things that, and I know you probably want to follow up on that, but what I love about this whole concept of the five languages of appreciation in the workplace is that we all love to learn more about ourselves.

I don't know anybody that doesn't love to be like, you know, do an assessment that goes, Oh, that is like, how does that know like that resonates with me? That's really who I am. And then if you're working with somebody who starts to understand you more because of that, it's just a beautiful, natural thing.

It doesn't feel like another program. It's just understanding each other, you know, which I think is so much easier to apply, I would guess, in most workplaces. I know, Jim, we had a business where we had several employees and we had on their name plates, we had their top languages so that when we went to meet with them, we could remember that, you know, until it became natural and that was so helpful, but it was natural. It didn't feel forced because it was just part of who they were.

Jim: Paul, what do you think is the biggest obstacle to an organizational leader to keep from implementing this? Why wouldn't they do this? I mean, you know, what keeps people from doing it?

Dr. Paul White: I think it's misconceptions and misunderstandings. We've identified four major misconceptions organizational leaders have.

First, they think authentic appreciation is the same as employee recognition. They overlap some, but they're clearly not the same, you know, recognition sort of top down organizational. Appreciation really is person to person. Second one is that appreciation when in our culture, we hear appreciation, we mainly think it's words.

So you say thanks, you give a compliment, but you know, similar to what you cited before, over half of all employees have a different language than words. So if you'll only use words, you're missing a majority of your team members. Third misconception is that the goal is to make people feel happy. And yes, we want that to happen.

We want to feel good, but it's beyond that. It's that we want the organization to function well and effectively. And it's a both /and. And then the last misconception that some leaders, you know, sort of push against is they got enough to do. They think that it's all on them. And one of the things we've learned is it's not just managers and supervisors who communicate, but it works best when colleagues show one another.

So, once we get past those misconceptions it really flows pretty well.

Jim: You know, the five languages of appreciation by Dr. Paul White along with Dr. Gary Chapman highlights the necessity of tailoring your interaction with those you work with according to how they receive appreciation at work. When you appreciate those who report to you daily, you will see not only that their attitude will improve, but their work product will improve as well.

The overall profitability of your company will improve. This is practically a guarantee. I'm sure he doesn't put it in writing, but it's practically a guarantee. When people feel appreciated, everyone benefits. It's the customers. The employees, the management, the vendors, everybody, it rolls down from the CEO to the customers of vendors.

It's awesome. So an old piece of advice comes back to benefit us again. Love God, love people. It's simple enough. Will you implement this today in your organization? I recommend that you check out the five languages of appreciation online at appreciation at work. com appreciation at work. com.

Martha: So I, Love that.

Number one, I just want to point out to the people that are listening, if they get the book, then they get that first, you know, opportunity to see the assessment and take it for themselves. And you're going to be hooked. So anybody who's like wanting to know, like, okay, what is the first steps? Go do that. Go to appreciationatwork. com and get yourself a copy of the book because that will be the beginning of the journey after having this conversation.

So Dr. White, you have helped thousands of organizations nationwide put the five languages of appreciation in the workplace into practice. Who do you have with you today that can testify to this power in making businesses and organizations great?

Dr. Paul White: Well, I'm really pleased and excited to have Becky Staal join us today. Becky's a good friend and been a colleague for, I was trying to look back at, seven or eight years. She's been using our materials largely with nonprofits and ministries, but also expanded into businesses in the upper Midwest. And she is just a delightful support and and I really value her support a lot. When I'm discouraged, I ping Becky and she cheers me up.

Jim: That's a good relationship.

Martha: That's so good. So Becky Staal, thank you so much for being here with us today. What kind of work does God have you doing?

Becky Staal: Well, it is great to be here. Thanks so much. And I am currently working on my church staff where my husband and I worship and attend. But I'm also a trainer and facilitator for appreciation at work and actually, I've been doing that for 10 years. I know time goes really fast, Paul, when we think about it. I began my work actually in the corporate world and then the call to ministry came and I've been doing ministry work with non profits and church staffs for the past 20 some years.

Jim: So so what about the five languages of appreciation at work touches you? As you are a professional and enables you to do your job more effectively. What is it? What's the? When you first saw it 10 years ago, and you're like, Oh, oh, this is good. What was it about that? What was it that turned the light bulb on for you?

Becky Staal: So I think what turned the light bulb on for me was when I read the book and I took the inventory back then, and that was in 2012. What I realized was I was doing appreciation and encouragement with my co workers out of my primary language, which is words of affirmation, and I was missing all the other people with quality time, acts of service, and gifts, and so for me, it was a huge eye opener in that community.

Most of us give appreciation and encouragement out of the way we want to receive it. And so that's exactly what I was doing. And I realized as a words person that I was really just missing those people on, which is other half, you know, you gave the statistic earlier of. Yeah, over 40 percent of the people have words of affirmation, but all the rest of those people on my team that I was missing them.

So the other thing that I was really drawn to, and I think that I loved was the fact that it really looks at the individual. You're really looking at people as people, and it's not what is a one size fits all and that's really how I was doing my leadership at the time I would send an email with words of affirmation for everybody and I would check the box and the appreciation language really opened my eyes, and it actually helped me grow as a leader. Because I realized I needed to grow in those other areas so that I wouldn't miss people on the teams where I, where I work.

Martha: So you said that you've been using it for over 10 years. What is it about it that keeps this tool fresh and applicable every day?

Becky Staal: Well, I think as, as believers and as Christians, we're called, it's foundational to love others. I mean, we're called to do that. And I feel like even though we don't call it the love languages in the, in the workplace, it really is.

It's like, how can we encourage and appreciate others individually and look at them as people? And, you know, you hear a lot about the differences and diversity and all of those things in the workplace. And I love it because I feel like it really gets down to looking at people individually. Quality time might look different for somebody who is new to the workplace or somebody that's been in the workplace for a lot of years.

I see it as such a multi generational tool. I love that. When I read the book back in 2012, I remember thinking to myself, this is never not going to be applicable because we're always going to be called to love others. And your work teams change, people come and people go, so you're always going to be having to learn about the others that you work with.

So, to me, it stays fresh and applicable because it's, it's about individuals and it's about the people.

Jim: So that's why God created people. God created people to be loved and he created people to respond to love. So talk to us about, in your experience as you've worked with multiple types of organizations, how have, give us one example of how you've seen the five languages of appreciation in the workplace applied and implemented with an organization. And what happened?

Becky Staal: So I have a favorite story and i'll tell you that story and this is one of my favorites because I received a call a few months after the training with the team. And the leader the leader called and said one of our action items was to make sure everybody who came on to our team and in our organization would take the inventory as part of the onboarding process, so right away, we would know how to appreciate and encourage somebody from the get go.

So, this leader was sitting down with this new team member to go over the results and just get to know this new team member. The new team member happened to get pretty choked up and said, you know, of all the places that I've worked, I really never felt like people knew who I was and really valued me for who I was and for me to come to this organization and the first thing that you want to know is how to encourage and appreciate me.

She was overwhelmed and choked up in a very positive way. Well, the leader went on to say to me, she said, you know, Becky, we had a pretty positive workplace culture and I just wanted to take it up a notch. That's why we were doing the training. I wanted to have a continuous improvement goal, if you will.

And she said, you know. I'm pretty burned out in my role as a leader. I've been doing this job for a long time. And she said, when our team sat around and learned that appreciation and encouragement was for everyone to do, and that it wasn't just about me as the leader doing that, it was almost like the team was like oh, wow. We could encourage and appreciate her.

It doesn't always flow down the organization. It can flow up the organization. And she said, you know, Becky, she said, my team realized I'm a person, too, and they could encourage and appreciate me. And she said, it's changed everything for me. I'm re energized in my job.

I love that story. That's one of the best phone calls I ever received because it talks about somebody brand new in the organization and then somebody who was affected by it, who was kind of burnt out in in their leadership role at the top level. So that's that's how I see it working. And I see it working like that all the time.

There's so many aha moments for people when they're sitting around the table and talking about this material.

Martha: That is so good. And I hope that as our listeners are hearing that they can see how it might work for them in their organization, no matter where they find themselves within the company. So kind of a leading question.

I pretty much know the answer, but you know, we love this whole concept of the five languages of appreciation at work. Can you think of a single organization or place where anybody, any reason why a company would not want to participate in the five languages of appreciation at work?

Becky Staal: You know, I was thinking back especially since it's been 10 years, of all the types of organizations that I've had the joy and fun of working with and every time they always want me to know all about their organization before I come there.

And when I realized the beauty of it is it's just about people no matter where I go. It's just about the people and whether I'm, I'm working with the hair salon or a dental office, a large pharmaceutical company, food service industry, a nonprofit, a school, landscape management company, all these kinds of businesses, it really comes down to this.

No matter where you work, people want to know that they're valued and appreciated for who they are, not just the work that they produce and the appreciation languages is just exactly that tool to do that for, for organizations and for leaders and for coworkers. I mean, anyone can use it. I think that's it.

That's pretty much the most wonderful thing about it is everyone gets to be involved. It's not just that leaders get to know this and I that's what I love about it.

Jim: Sounds like you have the greatest job on the planet!

Becky Staal: I do. I love this and I remember from 2012 when I first read the book and did the inventory I was like this is never going to grow old, and I threw my name in the hat to be a facilitator, and Dr. White and I connected.

I think I was one of the very first facilitators, and I enjoy it very much, and I get to meet all kinds of fascinating people, all kinds of different work out there. And people are just people, and they want to know that they're valued and appreciated, and it changes everything when people sit around tables, or I've done lots of virtual training since the pandemic.

I never wanted to be a virtual trainer, but I want to bring people around this material, and so whether we're doing a training virtually or in person, it never gets old talking about how to encourage other people.

Jim: Absolutely. Wow. What a great story. Becky Staal, thanks for being with us on iWork4Him.

Dr. White, did you ever imagine your pursuit of Dr. Gary Chapman to take the five love languages and turn it into the five languages of appreciation in the workplace, that it would impact one person like Becky and now tens of thousands, in fact, probably hundreds of thousands around the globe? Did you ever imagine that impact?

Dr. Paul White: No. I mean, there was sort of a vague hope that this could make a difference in workplaces. But I didn't know. I knew the five love languages as a concept you know, is impactful and works in personal relationships, and I thought, maybe it will, and let's give it a go. So, I'm so thankful for just the, the blessing that God has given on the works of our hands and and the opportunity to bless other people because it is cool to see the changes, even during the training of sort of relationships and tension going away. So I'm really thankful for the opportunity.

Martha: Well, so we want to make sure that people know the best way to contact you, to ask questions, to get started. What is the best way for them any of our listeners to connect with you to take a next step?

Dr. Paul White: Yeah, sort of the starting point is at our website appreciation at work and it's the word at not the at sign but appreciation at work. com and there's information about the book, about training, because we have a training course that people that are HR professionals or pther kinds of learning development people can go through. The assessments. You can buy assessments for your team, but not everybody has to read the book. We have audio books and all that, as well as other things.

But that's, that's the starting point. And if you have any questions, there's an email. It's just admin at appreciation at work. com and, and our team will help you out.

Jim: Dr. Paul White, thank you.

Martha: Excellent. And we'll make sure all of that is in the show notes, so that if anybody didn't get that, you're driving or whatever, we'll make sure it's there for you.

But before we go today, I just want to tell each of our listeners how much we appreciate you. Your support and encouragement for the past 10 years keeps us going. Those that have supported us financially at iWork4Him ultimately help unlock God's purpose for others in their work. So a huge thank you to each and every one of you whose language is, you know Words of affirmation.

Jim: That's exactly right Come see us in missouri. We'll give you a hug.

Martha: There's a lot of other things we can do. So if it's gifts, we have a bumper sticker we can send you I mean we could go on and on but if we if you would like to help us with this mission Just go to iWork4Him. com forward slash donate and for any size donation. We will send you a copy of one of our books iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him or iRetire4Him. Thank you for making a difference!

Jim: Check us out online at iWork4Him. com or on facebook twitter instagram youtube rumble truth social or telegram Just search for I work the number for him You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host jim and martha brangenberg.

We're christ followers our workplace It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him!

Martha: This episode of iWork for Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online at SaferNet. com.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number for him. com.

11/1/23 - 2014: Is Work Destroying Your Marriage?

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online SaferNet dot com. You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field.

What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: I believe it's a rendition of the Seven Dwarves song from the Disney picture Snow White, but it goes something like this, I O, I O, it's off to work I go. You know, we understand that everybody needs to go to work and everybody needs to make a paycheck.

We all have bills, I get it. But there's danger that lurks behind the work that you do. It could become an addiction, which then supports an addiction to buy bigger stuff. And it can become an addiction to buy more expensive stuff and accumulate more and more stuff. And that addiction can fuel unimaginable disaster.

Is it necessary for you to protect your marriage from your work? Yes. Yes, it is. If we don't operate with a high level of intentionality in our marriages that protects it at all costs, then we will set an example for the next generation that work is more important than love, that money is more important than family.

Martha and I sit down today just to dig a little deeper into this subject, because we've seen so many times that work and the spending that follows out of control will not only destroy your marriage, but your family and your life. Let's operate with a high level of intentionality. Let's protect our marriage from our work.

So Martha, why are we talking about this today?

Martha: Well, I think a lot of reasons number one is that we don't have it perfected by far. And so we live an open book life and we are always wanting to be growing, but to, to see the danger in not strengthening our marriages and keeping them strong because we get too focused on our work.

And you know, that is just a topic that's near and dear to our heart. And so we're talking about it here because on iWork4Him, we talk about all different things as they relate to our faith and our work and what's more important than keeping our marriage strong, as an example, to those that we work with every day?

Jim: We're not, neither of us are like workaholics or anything like that. Neither of us really love work. So this is okay, right? No, it's not.

Martha: What are you trying to say?

Jim: We've struggled living daylights out of this subject. You know, we've seen so many marriages struggle when work gets out of control. And honestly, it's not just the men that get this wrong. It's not just the women that get this wrong. It's both parties that get this wrong. But we have mentored now over the last 25 years about 75 couples, almost all of them entrepreneurial, but not totally. And what we have seen is that there's always this desire to work and that there's always this excuse that we can work just a little bit more and it'll be okay.

Or that I'm getting this big raise. And so it therefore justifies me taking more time away from my family, or that it's just going to be for just a little bit of time. I'm just getting to work a little extra for just a little bit more time. And things spiral out of control. It starts with working a little harder so you can make a little more money so you can pay off some debt.

Eventually to working a lot harder where then it takes you on the road and now all of a sudden you're spending less time as a family. And eventually somebody in the marriage starts to feel neglected and then well, then the marriage starts to have a little struggle and then when it's ignored long enough one of the partners in the marriage just starts to feel very disconnected and unloved and eventually It leads to separation and it could lead to divorce. It could lead to an affair, but it just starts with letting work get out of control.

Martha: Well, really for everybody we all have different scenarios in our life what our work looks like, what our family life looks like, and what is working for someone else doesn't mean it's going to work for you. And is what they're doing really working? You know, and that's really the thing is we have to go to God and say, what do you want our marriage and our home and our family to look like?

And how can we achieve that and not compare ourselves? Because we're not going to sit here and say that there are jobs that people can't do - a traveling job or whatever, you know. We can't compare ourselves to other people. What we have to say is Lord, what is it that you want to do for our marriage and how can we honor that and then take it forward?

Jim: I just seems like if you're watching the video, I'm playing around with the backgrounds. I'm trying to find the one that Martha always says hey use this one because the words are over Martha's head. Sorry, if you're not watching the video, you're not having any fun like this, but

Martha: We haven't done a show with just the two of us in a while, so it's, you know, I have to keep you under reign a little bit more, I think, so.

Jim: Yeah, I think so as well. Alright, so, what does the Bible have to say about this? Does the Bible have anything to say about work? I think it's important that we do know what the Bible says. The Bible wants us to have rest in our lives. The Bible wants us to watch out for greed and make sure that we don't work ourselves to the bone and enjoy the fruits of our labor.

All of those things fit into this. So Psalm 127 verse two says, it is senseless, senseless, - easy for me to say - for you to work so hard from early morning to late at night, fearing that you will starve to death for God wants his loved ones to get their proper rest. If we don't get rest. Everything pulls apart, including our ability to, you know, have a conversation on a podcast.

Martha: What are you saying, Jim?

Jim: I'm tired. I don't know what it is. I'm just tired today.

Martha: You know, it's funny because I was thinking this morning when we were getting up, I'm like, Thank you, Lord, for having us in a position where we're right now not having to set an alarm on most days and not that the Lord doesn't wake us up and that we don't get up. We're not slacking around, you know till mid morning, but we have this we're in a season where we work our day except for when we're having scheduled appointments or going on meetings that we get to to get the rest that we need I guess is the you know, what I was thinking about and thanking the Lord for.

Jim: Technically we do sleep until mid morning Because morning starts at midnight and we're sleeping until six or seven. That's kind of midway.

Martha: Okay.

Jim: All right. Friends, we must watch out for greed as well. Luke 12 15 says then he said watch out. Be on your guard against all kinds of greed. Life does not consist in an abundance of possessions. That is so true. We learned something 25 years ago. Well, okay. 24 years ago; that the more stuff you have, the more it owns you.

And the more stuff you have, the more it takes time from you, whether you're dealing with it or not. And it almost always goes to say the more stuff you have, when you go to use that stuff, it's broken or missing, but it just takes head time. The less stuff you have, the more contentment you can have. And so getting a bigger, better job that gives you more money so you can buy more stuff is not the answer to this.

Martha: Yeah, and I guess you know, really one of the verses that you also have brought up so many times in our marriage, Jim, is the verse on contentment because so often that's really what fuels this conversation is that we're not content. We're discontent, and we think that buying more stuff is going to lead us to more contentment when actually the opposite is true because we have more inventory to manage, more time taken away from sitting on the front porch and having a conversation because you need to go work on the lawnmower and I need to go do something else.

Jim: Now, speaking of the lawnmower, Martha ran the lawnmower into an evergreen tree a couple weeks ago.

Martha: Wait, wait, wait. Not into the tree. Not into the trunk. I sucked in a needle into the throttle.

Jim: She's messed up the throttle. Does anybody know how to adjust the throttle on a small push lawnmower? Send us a message because we're going to be doing that this weekend.

Anyway. All right. But the more stuff you have, it doesn't bring about contentment and also the more projects you have on your list and getting those projects done also doesn't bring contentment because Martha and I have been working on projects now for three years here in Marionville, Missouri off and on because we only lived here 18 months.

And we knock projects off and we always seem to find more and it seems like we're driven by our projects and that doesn't always bring peace of contentment either. It's hard for us to sit down and just read a book and sit on that front porch that we built last summer.

Martha: But we're also choosing to do things together. So we're getting that marriage time, you know, as we are building a wall or whatever the project. All right So anyway, you know, Jim, we're talking about the importance of protecting our marriage from our work.

 So let's talk about what else we can protect. And you know we have areas of our life that need protection for all kinds of different reasons and one of them is our digital life. And we have recently installed SaferNet on all of our digital devices. So Jim, tell everybody what that helps to protect.

Jim: Well, first of all, you know, in today's world, there's always bad people wanting to come into your computer and track you or take your information. And so we've been using a VPN or virtual private network piece of software on our computers for a number of years already, but it didn't have antivirus and it didn't have website filtering.

It just, it gave a little bit of protection, but what SaferNet does is it packages everything together. It gives you a virtual private network which really makes it so that where you are nobody can see where you are like bad people from the outside. And when they're constantly trying, like what we have found, we've got Cable internet in our office. By installing SaferNet it keeps the bad people out and our access speed to the internet's 30 percent faster. It's Unbelievable, the page refreshes.

Anyway, that's one piece it does. And it has 84 different website filters so it keeps the bad people out. It keeps you from going to websites where they're gonna destroy your mind, your heart, your soul, and your marriage. And it also gives you antivirus protection because there's always people trying to send you garbage that will cause you to destroy your life.

You know, there are ransomware attacks. There's so many different attacks. SaferNet does all of this. We encourage you to install SaferNet on your computers. Go to SaferNet. com SaferNet. com. It's going to change your life. It's really changed how we operate business and all of our devices have SaferNet on them, from our phones to our iPad, to our laptops, to our desktop computers that we use in a studio.

 So Martha, what are some of the symptoms of a work starved marriage?

Martha: That's a really great question. I mean it can look different for everyone, of course, so that's why we're just talking about symptoms, but some of those symptoms might include where you just don't even have anything in common anymore, where your marriage is so work starved that you don't even have time to spend together. You don't have meals together. Things like that.

Jim: What what's the one line we hear people say? It feels like we're just roommates. Yeah. Yeah, so symptoms of work starved marriage - not enough sex, not enough time just talking, no meals together, getting up and going to bed after one person goes to bed and getting up before they get out of bed. You're not spending time together. A work starved marriage is where work becomes more important than the people that you love that you're working for. This is one of these things, just listen to me for a minute. You get a job to pay for things to provide for your family. When the job that you have that's provided for your family starts to pull you away from the people that you love -your spouse your children, the home that you are buying with the money, the car that you're driving with the money, you don't get time in any of those things with any of those people - there's something wrong.

We've seen the stupid. This is stupid.

Martha: You know, I was thinking about another symptom is that when you really are living paths, different paths of life, your schedules don't align. You don't see each other. A lot of people say, you know, I feel like we're just ships passing in the night.

And that's a very big symptom of it. Now, you know, we'll talk a little bit later that sometimes there is a season for that. I mean, if you're a CPA and you do tax returns, you will be like a ship passing in the night for a season because of the industry that you've chosen to work. 10 weeks every year, but that doesn't mean that should be the norm that that should become the way you are 12 months a year.

Jim: And even that parameters around it. CPAs, tax accountants, H and R block people, you can't neglect your family because for 10 weeks, neglecting a family? I mean, a lot of damage can happen in 10 weeks. All right. So what are some of the things that fuel that need for more work and more pay? So when people they get a house. Okay. everybody starts off in an apartment or mobile home or something like that just to get started or they're renting a house or whatever and they want to buy a house.

So that fuels the need for more pay or saving money. So sometimes maybe you get a second job just to get the down payment. Then you get into your house and you're like, yeah, but Bob and Janie they have a bigger house. How cool would it be for us to have a bigger house? Martha and I, in 1988, bought a perfect little first time buyer house.

It was, I don't even remember, how many square feet was it? Like 1, 500, 2, 000? It was a nice sized house. It had three levels, three bedrooms, and three bathrooms. Really? Did it have three bedrooms? We finished the third bedroom and another bathroom. So, it was perfectly fine. But our friends bought a bigger house.

And we thought that's pretty cool. We could put our office in our home if we built a bigger house. And so we took our house that had a 90, 000 mortgage and we bought a new house that had a 220, 000 mortgage. And I know today you're thinking that's not much money. Back then a quarter million dollar mortgage was a ton of money in the early nineties.

And so we bought bigger houses. And then we bought cars that weren't paid for. And so we had car payments and house payments and now all of a sudden you don't have the flexibility to not work extra because you got stuff to buy. So the stuff that you want tends to drive that. Martha, go ahead. Jump in.

Martha: Well, I'm just thinking about, you know, today, a lot of us are experiencing just the pressures of the increase in cost of living. And so we already have a pressure to provide increase the cost of living.

Jim: You mean increase the cost of gas?

Martha: Everything - food, clothing.

Jim: Yes. Thank you to all of our government officials who have helped all of our stuff skyrocket, because of your irrational and irresponsible spending,

Martha: If I could mute Jim right now, I would.

So I think that it - what are the things that it's just such a pressure for us to just provide? It's easy to forget that provision may become more expensive in the future, out of our control. So again, just talking about this contentment and saying, okay, when I live within my means and I may actually be able to save some money and put away for the future. What a great thing. But then you also have cushion when there are things that are out of your control.

We live in such a consumer driven society. And really this, you know, this is not a show to talk to you about economics but it is in the sense that we need to make really good decisions because this is impacting our marriage. It's impacting our relationships. If we have no time to invest in the very people we're providing for, then we're not really providing.

Because things - I follow a lot of minimalists on podcasts and listen to their stuff and you know the thing that I really gained from all of it is if you don't have so much stuff to take care of, you have more time for the things that really matter to you.

Jim: All right. But some of the other things that drive this - kids wanting more stuff because they go to school with other kids who have more stuff, so they have the latest iPhones and they're in the latest sports, they're in, they're in volleyball. Well, now they're in traveling volleyball.

Now they're traveling all over the country playing volleyball. Why? Are they gonna be Olympic volleyballians? Volleyballians? No, I mean, just things like that. I'll tell you what, sports, kids sports also attack your marriage. Protect your marriage from kids sports.

There's also this temptation at work that you've got an opportunity for a raise. And that too may pull away. Hey, you get this big right now. You're working a 40 hour a week job and something gives you a raise. Not gonna be a manager. Well, it might require 50 hours a week and then you get an opportunity to be a vice president. Well, that's gonna be 60 hours a week because all the vice presidents have worked 60 hours a week. Just because they're all being stupid doesn't mean you, you need to be stupid. Maybe you can get the job done in less time,

Martha: but if a culture is set that way, then maybe it's time to free yourself from that culture.

Jim: Free your future before they free your future.

Martha: Yeah, you know, and those are hard decisions to make Jim, but it's important because it's not -we have to look at what really matters.

 So if we look at the way culture is in America. Yeah, this, how many people think back to their college years and their young married newlywed years fondly? And they're like, remember back when?

Jim: Well MercyMe wrote that song Dear younger me,

Martha: but remember, like, when we think about our apartment, we're like, oh, that gold shag carpet and we used to drink Kool Aid and we used to buy generic? I was just thinking about how cheaply we lived, and yet we think about it fondly, because we think about it and we're like, oh, remember it was so simple then.

Jim: Yes, we do, and life was simpler. We had one car, and we had one bedroom, and we had a TV that was from the 1970s, whatever it was.

Alright. So here's, here's the question. Have we ever seen someone who desired to destroy and hurt their marriage by working too much? No. No. Nobody ever starts off going, I'm gonna take this job so I can destroy the ones I love and alienate them for the rest of my life.

In fact, I'm gonna make so much money that when I get a divorce, I'll only have half of it left, but I won't have any relationships to show for it because all of the people I love will hate me because I ignored them and I, you know what I really want to do? I want to screw up my kids. So they have a daddy wound or a mommy wound, but they're going to have all the things that they want, but they're going to hate me, but I'll get to see him on weekends.

Nobody starts off that way and we don't want you to get there. That's why we're talking about protecting your marriage from your work. We know that working too much can hurt our marriage. We've seen it. We've even experienced it. There was a time when Martha worked christian retail. Martha, did christian retail demand a lot of your time?

Martha: Most definitely. I think retail - for anybody who's in retail - they know that retail is very demanding on an hour by hour basis. And we you know had to figure out how to manage that.

Jim: Well, it was Christian retail shouldn't that have been better?

Martha: No, probably not.

Jim: And there was a certain time of year that really was demanding. What time of year was that, Martha?

Martha: Oh, that would be the gift giving season.

Jim: Isn't every day a gift giving day?

Martha: The highest gift giving season, at Christmas time.

So yes, that was very stressful and you had to, you had to learn, we had to learn ways. Sometimes you would bring me lunch. Sometimes you, you know, just so we could get a little time together and be intentional about that. So let's talk about that for a minute. Before we get to the, the last part of the show, Jim, and just you know, what was it that were some of those indicators that work was hurting the marriage? Do you have any idea?

Jim: You got up before I even get out of bed, you got home when I was ready to go to bed, so I was already tired and cranky. We missed meals. Your kids go, Hey, there's a lady running around the house. Who is she? I recognize her. I can't remember her name. Stuff like that. So we're going we waited for an hour and a half and after school care, mom forgot to pick us up because she was working too much.

Martha: Well, that never happened.

Jim: No, it never did happen. But those are, you said some of the indicators and on my side, it was, I just got this great idea in the, in the mid nineties that we would sell cars to support our Florida habit.

So we could go and vacation in Florida, and it was - the kids every Saturday morning instead of then just being a play day at home, we were going to the car dealership to wash cars and to sell cars and and kids are like, do we have to go? And it was to support a habit that eventually moved us to Florida for 20 years, but now we're not in Florida anymore.

But it was just, it just took time away. We never had time to just sit and do nothing. Does anybody have time to sit and do nothing anymore?

Martha: I think it's a choice. That's what we're talking about. That's why we're saying. Every day is a new day, a new opportunity to make some new habits.

Jim: But I want to ask our audience, if you've got time to sit and do nothing, would you please send us an email? Jim@ iWork4Him. com Martha@ iWork4Him. com. Go to the website. iWork4Him. com. Click on contact us. Let us know if you've got time to do nothing. What do you do with it? Okay, Martha, you and I decided that we're going to be good stewards of things in the late 90s. We went through crown financial ministries.

We learned about stewardship. We learned about the biblical principles of finance. We learned to be good stewards of the money. We are not just tithing, but we decided that even with our investments, we need to be good stewards beyond just investing. But we decided to look at biblically responsible investing.

And because we want to make sure that we were investing in companies that didn't invest in things that we're fighting, the very things that we talk about every day on iWork4Him. And now we've made another choice another change in stewarding our finances. We're trying to vote with our dollars, which means spending our money with companies that support the same values as we have - God and country in that order. God and then country. Our cell phone is one of those changes we have made. Just recently we switched to patriot mobile, america's only christian conservative wireless provider. The switch, not only wireless, how about cellular provider?

This switch was easy. The price was right. And our dollars are now supporting causes we believe in including iWork4Him. Every dollar on our bill, 5 percent of those dollars go to iWork4Him directly. Just go to PatriotMobile.com/iWork4Him. that's I Work the number 4 him.

And use promo code iWork4Him to learn more. Get signed up and enjoy great coverage like we have right now. They have all of the, they have access to all of the towers for all the major carriers. Your service won't change. Your price will change and who you're supporting is going to change. Cause it's all about God and country - Patriot mobile.

Martha: So, Jim, what are some of the things that we can do to reverse this course that if we feel like we need to get our marriage back on track and in the right place, what are some of those things that we can do? Let's talk about the good.

Jim: I think talking, just like you said, let's talk about it. You need to talk about it. If you are sensing there's an issue, just text your spouse, send them an email, write a little note saying, Hey, can we talk later today? I just feel like we're not talking enough. Start right there. The way to reverse course and any issue in your marriage, talk about it.

Martha: You know, I think about the fact that where we, when we got to a point where we realized we were too over committed, we made some really hard decisions and we cut things out of our calendar. The extra. They might be good, but are they where you should be spending your time? And there was a time where you sat on several board of directors, just 13 of them. You had to cut back on those. You you made hard choices. So making those kinds of decisions are not easy, but they're important if you're going to change the trajectory of your marriage.

Jim: But again, that involves talking. You get the calendars out, you talk, you have to work through, you have to be able to talk to each other. It doesn't really do any good to yell at each other, be frustrated with each other, because if you're frustrated, likely your spouse is frustrated, too.

Martha: Well, and like you said, you didn't wake up going, I want to do all these terrible things to hurt my marriage. It happened over time. So being able to say, okay, let's open our eyes. What can we do to better invest in the marriage that we have? How can we be spending our time? What decisions? We didn't mean to get here. But how can we start to remedy some of those things and having an honest conversation about it and, and being willing to give and take and to compromise?

So what other things might be helpful for people, Jim?

Jim: Marriage mentoring. it is great to have another couple in your life that's further along the road in marriage that you can access because they're going to have a perspective different than you on how to work through stuff like this. So I would totally recommend that you get involved in marriage mentoring. Get somebody to pour into your life. Get another couple in your life that would be helpful. Get involved in a small group. Going to church is great. It's great to get great training, but boy you need to be in a small group of other couples that are living life.

They don't have to be in the same place as you, they don't have to be older than you, or they don't have to be younger, they can be younger than you, but to just be in a group with other couples, but talking with each other is the most important thing.

Martha: You know, when you say small group, Jim, I just want to highlight the fact that the reason I think you say that is because in church, you don't really get to have conversations and be shoulder to shoulder with people other than sitting in the pew next to them doing life.

You know, seeing the hard decisions, the choices that are made, like you do when we say small group, we're talking about being in each other's homes and getting to know each other and, and seeing, oh, wow, they had a kid who acted up, you know, they're normal too, you know, they, they have the same kinds of issues we're having, how can we make those decisions to encourage each other and strengthen each other?

Jim: And we're not talking about Sunday school where one person is teaching and everybody's looking at that teacher. We're talking about sitting in a circle and living life together, having a meal, living life together.

All right. So why is it important to talk about this today? Because If our marriage is a mess, it follows us wherever we go, whether that's at work, whether that's at church, that's in your small group, wherever. If your marriage is a mess, you'll take it with you and it impacts, it impacts your ability to work, it impacts your ability to be effective in what you do. Not only that, but our marriages were meant by God to be a light to those around us because it demonstrates the oneness with each other and our oneness with God.

Martha: You know, there's very few places that people can go and have a good example of a godly marriage in their life outside of the church where you feel like you are going to see more of that opportunity. So when you're at work and people are watching you and seeing how you talk about your spouse, how you interact with your spouse, because you bring your life to work with you, you don't leave it at the door. And the conversations should revolve around the important things in your life when you get a chance to talk with your coworkers. So being an example to them may be the only chance they get to see a godly marriage. So if they see it implode, what is that gonna speak to, to the other things that they're watching in your life?

Jim: Well, we know what it says.

Martha: Okay. What does it say?

Jim: Jim and Martha can't make their marriage work. Why the heck would I even get married? That's why we have so many people today who have given up a marriage and they're just living together because their parents gave up on it. Marriage is hard. It takes work, but it's worth it.

As we head into our 38th year of marriage, it's worth it. But it's difficult. Of course, it's been way more difficult on Martha than it has been on me, but you can just tell that by listening to our podcast. All right. But we just need to remember...

Martha: Especially when you're a little feisty, like you might be today.

Jim: I might be a little feisty.

But it's important. We protect our marriages and our families from our work. You need to ask tough questions. If your work is taking more than 40 or 50 hours a week, you need to make some changes. Maybe you need to sell your house and move into a smaller house. Maybe you need to get rid of your lease on your car and go buy some cheaper car. Maybe you need to get your kids out of traveling sports and just let him play one sport every year, you know, whatever it may be, cut your budget so you could cut the time you have to work. Because if you alienate your spouse because of overworking, it'll lead to some estrangement, which if not worked on can also lead to adultery because you don't feel loved at home because your spouse is so ticked off because you're never there.

And eventually that could lead to divorce and alienating your children and causing them to have divorces. and alienating your grandchildren and so on and so on and so on. That's not where we need to go. Marriage is workable in all situations.

Martha: You know, and it's worth it. It is such a blessing to have a marriage that is honoring the Lord. And I just, you know, if, if this is something that is striking a chord with you, listener, and you want to talk to somebody more about investing in your marriage or asking questions, we would love for you to connect with us. Just go to iWork4Him.com/contact and there you can send us a message.

We would love to chat with you more, give you, we have tons of resources that we can help you you know, further your marriage and strengthen it in a way that honors God.

Jim: Great conversation, honey. Thanks for tolerating me today.

Martha: That's my pleasure.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

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Did you know that god has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him dot. Com slash bookstore. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

10/25/23 - 2013: How to Reform Retirement in America

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet, online at SaferNet. com.

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: Imagine yourself in a huge field. On the edge of the field are beautiful trees and luscious fruit. Behind the trees are mountains in the background. And behind you there's a beach full of sand and the ocean roaring. In front of you is a trunk full of gold and a clock ticking.

But you don't know how much time is left. This is, in fact, a picture of retirement. You have absolutely no constraints on how you have to spend your time. Some of you may have to work in retirement just to pay a few bills, but you can do a different kind of work than what you spent the last 40 years doing.

You've got a field you can build upon, utilizing the trees in the forest. You've got incredible views that you can soak in and share with those around you. You've got the finances you need to spend a lifetime doing what you're called to do. The only caveat to all of this is that you'll be working. The biggest issue is that people see work as a negative, unnecessary evil.

We need to recognize that God gives us work as a gift. Retirement is an American thing, a Western thing. You've got maybe 30 years in front of you to do amazing things, utilizing all that you've learned up to this point in your life. What is it you're going to do? Bruce Bruinsma joins us today. I'm gonna say that again just because everybody needs to understand his name: Bruce Bruinsma joins us today from the Retirement Reformation, online at Retirement Reformation dot o r g and we're gonna explore how to find purpose in retirement Bruce, welcome back.

Bruce Bruinsma: Jim and Martha, it's good to be with you and in the You know, the message and the heart that God has given you to speak into the workplace and how it's become a place of ministry. And now, with the Retirement Reformation, we're talking about a new workplace, a place after the career. And so the principles and the goals that we all have are, are really, are really the same.

And I think God's goals are really the same. Just how do we carry it out in the complexities of these different times of life, given the fact, and I think as you mentioned, that , in fact, the retirement piece may be as long as 30 years? My goodness, your career may be 30 years and you got retirement just as long.

So how are we going to adjust all that and how do we, how do we react to it with God's heart and God's spirit?

Martha: And that's the conversation we're going to have today, Bruce, but let's start with your story. You are 82, and you just, according to the culture, according to finances, retired so that you can work full time with the Retirement Reformation.

Tell us a little bit of your perspective on that story.

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, you know, it's, it's over the years, some people have accused me of being a serial entrepreneur, and I suppose at some level I'm guilty of that. But thirty some years ago, God directed me to start an organization called Envoy Financial, and so we worked on the financial side of retirement with those who are in ministry.

I did that for almost 30 years, and then a number of years ago, in my mid 70s, God started working on me and saying, you know, there's more to retirement than money. And so, as He prompted me to deal with that in my own life, and in the lives of the thousands of people that we had touched financially, a whole new area of need, vision, and ministry opportunity has presented itself.

And so, the Retirement Reformation, matter of fact, we have something called the Retirement Reformation Manifesto. And I could take the next half hour and read it to you, and then

Jim: No, you can't.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, I know. Jim would not let me.

Martha: We'll put a link in the show notes.

Bruce Bruinsma: That's all right. What I am going to do is I'm going to read the introduction to it, because I think it really captures the essence of this.

The Retirement Reformation is committed to encouraging a movement where every Christ follower is confident in God's plan for a lifetime of faithful service and committed to helping the body of Christ reform its understanding of retirement. Then bearing fruit without measure, we assert the biblical truth that Jesus followers are called to bear fruit in every season of life and affirm that commitment with the following 10 principles... and you can follow that either at our website or you'll put it in the notes there, but it's, but, you know, the need for Reformation if we go back to the Reformation, to the Protestant Reformation and you think about it, what really happened?

Well, Martin Luther and a few others, in their understanding of God's Gospel, change the thinking of millions of people and it changes the direction of Europe and the world for, you know, hundreds of years to come. We need that same kind of reformation amongst the seniors and those that are anticipating it and those who have seniors for parents, which would be most of us.

Jim: Yeah, Bruce, we spent the last 20 years on a science experiment, a cultural science experiment in Florida. Seeing that the typical American dream of retirement is really a lie, that you can't just move to the south where it's gorgeous every day and you'll walk the beaches and get seashells and be fulfilled in life.

Is it possible? Is it possible to find purpose, fulfillment and flourishing in retirement? Yes or no?

Bruce Bruinsma: Yes. All right. So what does that look like? Well, first of all, you got to change your thinking about what it is. And so the, the beautiful picture that you painted, frankly, at the opening of this segment, and just the way you describe it now, what that means is that, is that we are attempting to take leisure and give it meaning and purpose. Now, leisure has value. We need to take a vacation, we need to take a cruise, we need to, you know, go take a road trip, or we need to, you know, get away and just get refreshed, but not for 30 years. And what happens, as we talked about in the last segment, is that after a period of time, for some people it happens right away, some people, you know, there's a period of time, but whatever that may be at some point, there is that realization that there is that hole in our soul and that we're, we're trying to give leisure meaning and purpose and leisure does not have meaning and purpose. It has value, but not meaning and purpose.

And so we have this yearning for something more to find that meaning and purpose. God, knowing that as He created us, He started us on a track with meaning and purpose that started, you know, before time began, the way I read my Bible. Then we're born and we've got our DNA and then we've got our experiences and how He shaped us.

Now we're prepared for some additional meaning and purpose. And when we can find it and begin to step into it, oh, it's like taking this huge weight off our life. And we can, in fact, enjoy retirement.

Martha: So, Bruce, are you flourishing?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well when I forget to turn the light out in my closet, my wife would tell me no.

But when I look at the relationships that God has blessed me with, the expanding number of relationships through the Retirement Reformation and iWork4Him and in other ministries that are good, it is the greatest time of flourishing for me in my whole career, and I've done some really interesting things that have been very rewarding.

But this time is so special, and it would be my prayer that your listeners and all those that they would impact would be able to experience that same feeling of, you call it flourishing, but a fulfillment of, you know that you know that you know that you're doing the right thing.

Martha: Mm hmm. When God gives you a mantle like that to carry and you're so passionate about it, that's where you know that you're living in your purpose and you know that's what I love about you, Bruce, is that you have experienced this yourself. You're not just being a spokesperson for something. God has worked in your own life, transitioned and transformed and reformed your thinking about retirement, especially being in the field where you're helping people financially prepare for retirement to have that mind shift and then to share it with others. I just, I love that, you know, that is where God has you on purpose right now.

Jim: Bruce, before we head off into our conversation about the three stages of retirement, in your perspective, are most retirees flourishing right now? Or are most of them a little frustrated?

Bruce Bruinsma: I think most of them are not flourishing. They may not be frustrated because they're totally enjoying the Leisure fruits of their, of their labor, and there's nothing wrong with that, except it will not last. And so when I look at, you know, I, I have on a sign behind my left shoulder there, the 40 million, and it actually, it's a bum number. There's 48 million Christ followers who I think are, have the opportunity to flourish, but are not.

Jim: Yeah, I gotta tell you the proof to me that most retirees are not flourishing is living in a homeowners association in florida. There's a whole nother story about that but there's another story for another day. You know, there are so many stories that we have heard about retirees learning truly how to flourish.

We decided to write a book, and the book is called iRetire4Him, which we wrote alongside Martha's dad, who's now with Jesus, but he told all of his stories in there of living out his faith in retirement. And we want to invite you to download the first chapter for free from our website. Go to iWorkForHim. com forward slash bookstore. And you can download that first chapter for free.

And then for any size donation, we'll send you a copy of iRetire4Him or any of our other books. Just place your selection in the notes on the donation page, what you would like us to send you but we'd love to be able to put those resources in your hand. You'll see Bruce has got six books he's written about retirement and another one coming out. We've just got one, so we encourage you to check out both of our bookstores. Right now, iWorkForHim. com forward slash bookstore.

Bruce Bruinsma: Let me just throw in a plug for iRetire4Him book. I would urge your readers, send in a donation and get the book, because the stories in there will warm your heart.

The stories from your dad are just beautiful. And so, If I'm feeling down a little bit, I do one of two things, either find a good football game or I pick up your book and I just read some of those stories and I, and it just lifts my heart. So let me just encourage your, your listeners to do that.

Martha: That's awesome, Bruce. Thank you so much for that.

So, you guys were alluding to this idea that there are three different stages in retirement. And so, I think that it's really important that we just, you know, jump into what those are. So, what are the three stages of retirement, Bruce?

Bruce Bruinsma: The stages of retirement, and just to contextualize that, just think about it for a moment. Was your life different in your 20s from your 30s? Everybody goes, well, yeah. Was it difference from your thirties to your forties? Well, yeah. Was it difference from your forties to? Well, yeah. So why in the world would we think that the 30 years of retirement wouldn't have stages also? So there's just a certain, you know, aha moment of, yeah, that makes sense.

So what are they? Well, first of all, we notice that in the, oh, let's say 65 to 77, 78, we call that the active stage. And this is where, in fact, you may be slowed down a little, but you know, you can, you can go, you can go kayaking, you can climb the mountain, you can lead a group, you can, you know, there's not very many things that in that period of time that you couldn't do in the years before retirement, that you can't do now. And so it's a very active period of time.

Then about 78, 79, somewhere in that area, there's a transition, a liminal period that is going to take place. And that liminal period, which we call mentoring, it's the time where, you know, all of your experiences, all the, the DNA that you have, all the wisdom and the knowledge that you're going to get has been pretty much accumulated, and you have the opportunity to, to come alongside others.

Younger people, middle aged people, young marrieds, maybe even contemporaries, even seniors, where you can come alongside and, and be that person that listens and then shares your own life experience. And let me just make one comment about that. So often people are afraid of mentoring and say, well, I'm not qualified to do that because what's going on in their head is I don't know if I've got all the answers. I

guarantee you, you don't. But that's not what they're looking for. They're looking for authenticity and transparency. And so, the major teaching moment in a mentoring relationship may be one of your biggest failures. And to say, here's where I really screwed up, and here's why, and here's what I learned. Don't do that. So mentoring is that second stage.

Third stage starts at around 88 roughly and goes to 104. And in that period of time, we've given that the name of reflective. The opportunity to, to aggregate all of the experiences and the thought that you have and to be able to share God's principles of life with others.

Just as in a couple of examples, Billy Graham wrote a couple of his best books after he was 90. Jimmy Carter, regardless of what you think of his politics, has written a couple of really good books on faith after 90. I, I just was introduced and I'll have, I have a meeting with him next week, a gentleman who's 91 who just wrote his first book about relationships. And so the opportunity there to be able to do some things, and even though your health may be, you know, not good, there may be all kinds of issues that are in your life, but you still have the opportunity to be, to share what God has given you with others.

So those are the three. So active, mentoring, and reflective.

Martha: You know, I love that you said, you know, obviously, in life, we had different stages up until retirement, so why wouldn't we have them there as well? And acknowledging that, I think, is a really good thing because you could get frustrated otherwise if you're like, Why can't I always be this way as we continue to age?

And I love this reflective stage because, you know, that's the time where the life lessons can really help teach other people and be contemplative and see what God has done in all of that life gone before. So let's think about that first stage, the active stage. Is it too late if someone is already retired to start to plan for stage one?

Bruce Bruinsma: Absolutely not, because there's, you know, it lasts 10 to 12, 13 years. So you may be 3, 4, 5 years into it. You've got five more years to go. And so to, to be able to say, okay, what, what is God calling me to do now with the energy that I have, with the resources that I have, with the experience that I have at this point?

And so that, that opportunity, it's also the time then to, to realize that there will be another transition coming. Right. And so when you know that something's coming, you can plan for it. And so, and I think

Jim: So key about that active phase, Bruce, to interrupt you, is that by the time you get to year three or four, you figure it out. This was a lie. This was a lie. The American Dream of Retirement is a nightmare. Because I am so sick and tired of sitting on my front porch, looking out at the birds, or looking out at the mountains, or walking the beach to get seashells, or whatever you're doing, you're like, I want purpose. And Martha says this so well - your calling did not retire when you did. Oh, well, sometimes takes us some days to to realize that, doesn't it? Really does.

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, you know, it's fascinating because sometimes, particularly in that active period, it's, you know, we kind of think, well, it should be a continuation of something. It may not be at all. It may look totally different. However, when you look back, you'll find that all of your experiences, in some way, speak into that new position.

Can I just tell you one story? A friend of mine came to see me a number of years ago, and he says, I'm retiring and I have no idea. I know I'm supposed to do something, but I have no idea what. And I said, so what are you passionate about? He says, well, kids. I said, okay, why don't you talk to your youth pastor, see if you can connect with kids?

And he did, and they did. And in that process, he learned that he really had a heart for disabled children. And that was really, you know, really got him. And their youth group took a trip to Africa. When he got to, got to Africa, he realized, there were a bunch of kids there, and number two, that there were many of them that were disabled.

So, he was then introduced to a, a budding hospital that took care of disabled kids, particularly ones that had bone issues and structural issues. Long story short, he is now the head of that hospital. And this was, so this has taken a process of seven years. If seven years ago I had told him that he was going to be the head of a hospital for disabled children in Africa, he would have run the other way just as fast as he possibly could because there's no way. He was not a doctor. He was not, you know, there was nothing that, that on the surface would combine those, yet who he was and who God had prompted him to be, he is the perfect person for, for that.

Martha: What a great example, Bruce. And you know, this is just one of many examples of things you've seen in people's lives that have been changed.

And we can't possibly cover all of the information about retirement in this week or last week's podcast that we did with you. But there is a whole podcast dedicated to this topic and that is iRetire4Him. Jim and Bruce are the co hosts together on that. You can find it on your favorite platform. And i'm going to put the link in the show notes for you to make it easy for you to find. But we would love for you to subscribe if this is a conversation that you want to hear more about. And I what I love the best is that you there's never a point where you say it's too late to make a difference, and so that is the voice that I want you to hear, that encouragement can be found in your retirement and the iRetire4Him podcast helps make that possible.

Jim: And inside the middle of every iRetire4Him podcast we interview somebody living out their faith in retirement All right, Bruce, so moving on to the last last set of questions before the the show is done today, how can I help my local church community celebrate retirees?

Bruce Bruinsma: That's an important need. And the reason for the need is some of it is what we talked about before about the sense of setting aside and the sense of separation by age and, and yet there is so much value in that age group.

So how can a church do that? So first of all, we do a weekend retreat called the Oxygen for Life. And I just love that name because oxygen is what God created that gives us life. And if we don't have oxygen, we die. So getting more of it is really a good thing. And so that's a Friday, typically a Friday night, Saturday event.

And you can go to our website and get all the information about that. And it's an opportunity to bring together the seniors in your church for affirmation. Also to reach out evangelically to, evangelistically to your community and invite seniors to come in and enjoy and begin to experience what God has for them with you.

On Saturday morning, then we do a four hour, dig deeper breathe deeply event. Where we talk about five or six really key topics and allow you to explore what is next for you. Then we have a next, then another thing you can do at your church is to have a workshop called recreating retirement. So it's 10 sessions and it, it walks in a group setting, but each person individually through the process of discovering and answering the question of what's next.

It's a really powerful experience. And so those are two things that you can, that you can bring to your church. And then there's much more. Go to retirementreformation. org.

Jim: You know, one of the things that I was also thinking, Bruce, if there's local church leaders listening to today's show, or if you're in leadership in your church and you have influence over the people that actually make the decisions in the church is to somehow find a way to encourage the leadership in your church to intermix the generations. Because the greatest way you can help your church community thrive is to get the older people connected with the younger people. Because in today's world, the younger people don't have access to sometimes to parents or to grandparents at all.

And they need the wisdom of generations poured into them. A lot of them will tell you that's what I want, but the church doesn't help and facilitate that. And so the local church, please celebrate retirees. They have a whole lot of wisdom.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, we have an intergenerational, it's going to be called age to age, intergenerational prayer. Where we introduce the process and the support systems to be able to have older people praying for younger people and then teaching the younger people how to pray. So we're really excited about that. And it allows the older people to come together in community and the younger people to be able to come together in community. And I think that's what the church is really all about, and it's so badly needed.

Martha: You know, Bruce, one of the things that you guys really encouraged, that doesn't take a program, it doesn't take somebody organizing it, but personally taking on the responsibility of some mentoring. And you have kind of coined this phrase about wraparound grandparenting.

Speak to that just quickly, because I think anybody listening could adopt this concept in their own life without anybody even knowing that they're doing it. So just real briefly, just explain that.

Bruce Bruinsma: Yeah, well, for example, if we think about in our communities, our church, how many single moms do we have? How many single dads do we have? How many people are adopting or how many people are mentoring or are thinking about mentoring? Each one of those has huge needs for support. So as seniors, if two or three seniors could come together, and let's focus for a moment on the fostering area where the need is so great, is to be able to come alongside those foster parents and if you had three couples that said, we will support you, it may be an hour a week.

It may be bringing a meal, it may be taking kids to a ballgame. It may be taking them over for a Saturday so that, you know, they get a chance to breathe for a minute. And so wraparound grandparenting, and we've given that initiative a name, it's called the Legacy of Love. And so the opportunity for those who are wraparound grandparents to come together in community, to focus on providing support for a fostering family as the church, we can bless our community, we can bless those people, and we can make a difference in the lives of the young people that are in those foster families and the 113, 000 more that need one.

Martha: Mm hmm. Such a great idea.

Jim: It is. Bruce Bruinsma with Retirement Reformation. Thanks so much for being here on iWork4Him today, sharing from your perspective on retirement and how we need to be reformed here in America. People check him out online Retirement Reformation dot o R G Bruce. Thank you.

Bruce Bruinsma: Thank you. And iWork4Him is doing such important work and so glad to be partnering with you.

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You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers in our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world.

For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him for him by going to iWork for him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork for Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brandenburg. Please visit iWork for him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork for him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number for him. com.

10/18/23 - 2012: If You're Not Dead, You're Not Done

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online SaferNet dot com. You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: So here's a great idea. Take all the wisdom of a local community church, those 55 and older, and pile them all in one room with themselves, separate them from the young people, and in fact, encourage them to move to Florida, Arizona, Texas, and California to hang out with people their own age. That's what I call a cataclysmic disaster impacting Christians retiring in America.

Today's show is going to have a little different focus. If there's ever been a soapbox that I've climbed high upon, this is it. Let's encourage Christian retirees to stop moving away from their families and the communities they love, thinking that they'll attain peace and contentment in some resort town in the South.

Why? Because it's all a lie. Bruce Bruinsma is here today from the Retirement Reformation to direct this conversation and start turning the tide on the destruction of our communities because of how we treat our chronologically superior folks within the Church of America. It's got to stop and it's going to stop today! Bruce Bruinsma, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Bruce Bruinsma: Hi Jim and Martha. It's so good to be with you virtually. It's always good to be with you in any set of circumstances because God has really knit our hearts together to be able to address the issue that you began to unpack and outline there. And so looking forward to doing that today and in the next, the next podcast also.

Martha: Awesome. You know, what I love about this, Bruce, is that Jim and you incredibly complement each other. You know, Jim is a, is a hard hammer sometimes, and you have had a few more years of experience and as far as articulating this conversation about where we're going to go. And so I just love hearing the two of you share your hearts because you are so well aligned, but, you know, not everybody looks at things from the same way. And so you guys both give great vantage points to this discussion.

Jim: So I want to make sure our audience knows. So iWork4Him, our podcast has been around for a decade. We've done a little over 2000 iWork4Him podcasts. Well, in 2020, that infamous year, Bruce and I launched iRetire4Him, a podcast totally dedicated to the those up and coming retirees or those already working their way into retirement, to focus really on the issues facing Christians who are living out their faith in retirement. And so we've got almost 100 episodes of that out there, but we wanted to invite Bruce back on. We had Bruce back first time on our show 2017, almost six years ago, hearing about the Retirement Reformation.

We want to bring Bruce back on and reintroduce the audience to this idea. That our retirement, well, let's just get into the conversation, you'll figure it out. Bruce, why in the world is the American dream of retirement a lie?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, you know, in so many ways that as the church and as Christ followers, we have bought into the cultural definitions of a variety of things. And, and this happens to be one of them. Matter of fact, what culture says about retirement, just to remind us, is that it's, first of all, our culture tells us that it's one homogeneous period. It's all downhill, mentally and physically. Then we die, and the goal is to jam as much leisure as we can into that intervening period.

There's probably seven lies in there, but we have, our culture has brought that to the church, the church has adopted it. We have adopted it as Christ followers, and the result is we've got 48 million Christ followers who are Approaching or in those retirement years that when we ask them, what are you going to be doing in retirement? They come up with some version of nothing. It often can be translated as leisure only

Jim: Bruce, if you would move your mic in just a little bit closer. But Martha, one of the things that I think is important for us to share with the audience, we did a 20 year cultural experiment living in Florida. So we've seen what it looks like when people pack up everything they have and move far away from their families and live in communities full of people their own age. What did we see?

Martha: Well, we saw a lot of things and it was interesting because we were, I don't know, younger than middle aged at that point, and so we didn't really realize we were stepping into this environment so full of retirees, but, you know, bottom line they were looking for, like Bruce said, a time of leisure but finding themselves very far away from family, with other people, not really with purpose, not really with you know, things that gave them true satisfaction. You know, they would go and play and they would go and do these different things that they've been waiting all their lives to fill their free time with. And then I think, I think a lot of them would say, you know, in the big scheme of things, it fell flat.

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, there's a couple of things that, that often those retirees don't remember or don't think of or aren't aware of and have to discover often in a painful way. But the fact that first of all, that what the world calls retirement can be a 30 year period.

Think about that, a 30 year period. And so the planning horizon for someone who is 65 is all the way up to age 95 and we don't really think about that because we haven't had experience with it. Now we're starting to see it with our parents and some grandparents, but it's still a whole new experience for us and the things that can happen.

You know, when we we think about moving to Arizona or to Florida or to some parts of California, here's the reality that most people forget, is that when you move, two things happen. Number one, you take yourself with you, and so it's not a panacea for all the things that well, once we move, it'll all be different. Well, here's a clue. No, it won't.

Secondly, is that when we move, we leave our friends behind. And so now we've got another whole environment that we need to work with. And so there's all these surprises that show up, and as, as we've talked, and as you know, that when we come to a transition period, and it's a surprise, we react emotionally, and when we react emotionally, we usually make some pretty dumb decisions.

When we can know what's coming and we can plan for it, then through God's power of the Holy Spirit, He can help direct us into what we have to go. But that's kind of a general framework, Jim and Martha, of what, of what the retirement generations now are looking at. As they contemplate and as they go out for a walk at night and say, what are we going to do next?

Martha: You know, I'm thinking here as a listener who maybe is hearing this conversation for the first time. I get a little on edge thinking about this because it's like, what do you mean? This is what everybody does. This is what we're used to. This is what we've heard. And you're telling me that it's not, it's not what I should be doing?

And of course, I just want to encourage the listeners to hang on till the end of the conversation, right? We're not telling you to stay at your corporate job until your last days. You know financially preparing for retirement and calendar planning for retirement are two very different things.

And that's the conversation we're having today. So I just want to encourage people, stick with us. This is a good conversation. Don't just get uptight like I'm feeling sometimes when we start this conversation and going against what people have always thought to be true about retirement. But that's why we're having the conversation.

So, I want to just take a minute, you know, Jim, you and Bruce have had this very special relationship for over two years. You've been co hosting a podcast called iRetire4Him that you referred to, and I just want to make sure listeners know. I'm going to put a link in the show notes where you can go and find those shows, whether they're for you to consume or for you to be sharing with someone else that you know is in a position where they're either preparing for retirement or in retirement and can use some encouragement and some challenge in their own lives. I want to encourage you to listen to it. This last series that you guys just did on the graying, you know, that had the issues with the gray. You know, the gray series time in your life and the, the threats of suicide and isolation and loneliness.

Powerful conversations. So everyone I would just encourage you to go subscribe to that podcast. Share it with somebody who could really use that right now but that's the connection that Jim and Bruce have and what they bring to the table.

Jim: Yeah, you can find that podcast anywhere online. I retire the number 4 him. I retire the number 4 him and that'll take you to the podcasts, are all out there.

All right, Bruce, most people know what they're retiring from but as we've discovered over the last 100 episodes of iRetire4Him, most people don't know what they're retiring to.

Bruce Bruinsma: No, it's the, the whole process is in some ways a very strange one in that people are looking forward to and maybe have prepared for financially or, you know, for a long time, see their parents going through and they know that there's this period coming up called retirement.

And for those that are transitioning from career into that retirement phase, and they've got a to do list, they've got a bucket list, they've got the things that they're thinking about. Oh, it's going to be so great when we do this. But when I talked about a little while ago, the fact that it's 30 years.

One of the issues is, and Martha I think you kind of alluded to it, is that after a year or two, the to do list is done, the bucket list has been significantly impacted, and now what happens is that there's a hole in their soul. And when there's a hole in their soul, what is it that's going to fill that hole?

It's a little bit like we're here waving a flag saying, hey, there's some problems coming up and we want to alert you to them. Call it prophecy if you wish. And to help you to be, to not only think about it, but be prepared. I mean, just take a moment and help your audience because there's, there's a word and an idea that is so helpful.

In these transition periods and in the, probably the most shocking transition, is the one from career to retirement, but you had some vision of that perhaps when you became empty nesters and all of a sudden, all of those dynamics changed. Well, this is another kind of a version of that. And so there's a word for it, and that word is called liminal, L I M I N A L.

And so a liminal period is any period of transition of any kind where it's fairly clear, as Jim was laying out, where you've been, but totally unclear about where you're going to go. And in that period, if you don't have some clarity, if you don't have some appreciation that, in fact, you are in the transition period, then what happens is anxiety, depression, fear, all of those negative emotions take over your conversations and your thinking.

Whereas when you are aware, that on a positive sense, when you know that a liminal period is coming and you can prepare for it, there can be joy. There can be great expectation. There can be all of these things that then will then transition you to into that next stage. And knowing that there's at least three stages in retirement, it's not something we're going to experience once and it's one and done. No, it's not. It's one and started.

Martha: So much like when people, you know, they know what they're retiring from, but not retiring to, what about this whole concept of they plan financially for the retirement, but they're not planning for their purpose in retirement? Why do you think that is, Bruce?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, because I think all the financial services industry, the insurance industry and everybody else, whenever it is that they're talking about retirement, they're talking about two things. Number one, will you have enough money? And number two, are you going to have enough fun?

Those are the two issues they talk about. And so where we are continually from every source, we are bombarded by that thought process. And then when we take and we start reading through our Bible, we read through the book of John and you go, wait a minute, this doesn't sound like what it is that I'm hearing over here.

And so you've got this dynamic tension that has a spiritual component to it, as well as an emotional component to it, as well as the financial component to it. So, you know, I was in the financial services industry for 30 years, and I will tell you that the money is the least important, unless you don't have any.

If you have done some proper planning financially, that opens the door for all of the other activities that can fill that hole in your soul that I was talking about. And again, as you were, as you were talking about with what, with meaning and purpose, leisure has value, but meaning and purpose is what it is that gives you true satisfaction and frankly, longevity.

Jim: And there's so much we could talk about this. In fact, we have talked about it over a hundred episodes of iRetire4Him. And I encourage you to go out there and listen to that podcast. We want to give you a little tickle on what we talk about.

Bruce, one of the things that I've seen, and I think it's a crime, is that churches tend to put all the chronologically superior folks in the same room to hang out with each other. Why do you think that is?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, I, I tell you the issue that you're raising, Jim, is what we call siloing. And siloing can happen in lots of different ways. But both in our society and in our churches, we have put people into silos by age, with the assumption that, that we relate best to people of our own age, and we forget totally about the value of intergenerational relationships.

So, then in the context, and I hope this isn't too blunt, but you'll soften it for me if it is. You know, what churches tell seniors is two things. Number one, don't stop giving, and secondly, just don't be grumpy. Just stand aside, because we have important people that we need to deal with, and by implication, it's subtle, it's not meant with any negative intentions or anything else, but the, the result is actually there, what they're really saying to us as seniors, is you are now useless. And our role is to entertain you, and for you to be entertained and not to have a role in the, in what God has called you to do in the kingdom. Jim, as I've heard you say, you know, if you're still here, you're not done.

Jim: I say it like this. If you're not dead, you're not done.

Bruce Bruinsma: I love it. I mean, that is, man, that is so right on and, and for your listeners, there'll be some of them that'll go, you know, that's really right.

Jim: That's exactly right. I think it's so important. We got to keep moving on, but there's so much of this that we've unpacked on our, on our iRetire4Him episodes. Martha, next question.

Martha: Well, you know, I just want to know, why do you think or how do you think that we can stop this cataclysmic disaster of Christians retiring and checking out?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, first of all, I think the Change in the Christian culture, the change in the - that's why we call it the Retirement Reformation. What are we reforming? We're reforming the way that we think about these issues of retirement. And so that's the reformation that needs to take place. Let me give you a real life example.

Yesterday, I went and took a tour of a group home of a ministry that those group homes are for, and the ones here locally are for male addicts. And so in this group home, there are 10 male addicts aged 18 to 35, and the program that they are in is 12 to 18 months. And so when I dig into them and say, why is it 12 to 18 months?

Was because we have to change totally the way they think, therefore the way they act, therefore the way they serve. And it takes 12 to 18 months to do that. And so, the change in the way that we think, and when we are so totally bombarded by, you know, the message that we talked about before. When the reality of that message is actually supported unintentionally by the activities in the church, man, we got a bunch to do to come together in community and say, oh, there is something more.

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Bruce, I want to just have this final segment of the show today, just talking about what have you seen on the highways and byways in America as you've traveled promoting the Retirement Reformation, which people can find online Retirement Reformation. org. Are Christ followers flourishing in retirement?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, there are some that are obviously flourishing. There are some that are still in that enjoyment phase and they're almost euphoric about the freedom and the things that they're able to do and the trips they're able to take and the way that they're able to interact.

And so they're euphoric about it. There's another group that is, is kind of at a, at a point of a new realization where there's a point of tension and they're going, huh. Yeah, well, this has either been pretty good or not pretty good, as the case may be, but it just seems like there's something more. So they're in that questioning stage of, of, I don't know if there's anything wrong, but there's not enough right either.

And so they're really searching. And then there's the group that has found what God has called them to do, and they're really experiencing that deep meaning and purpose while they're enjoying leisure and other things also, but they're also coming together in community with their family with their spouse with others in their community as they are working together.

And, and perhaps we'll have an opportunity to talk about, you know, one of those examples called wraparound grandparenting, but maybe in the next segment, we can break that out a little bit. But when you find the thing that, that really gets you excited, wow, life is different.

That's the reason why at 82, you hear me choked up a little bit about the subject that we're talking about, because God has given me a passion. I'm passionate about it. And boy, that gets me up every day in the morning and at 82, he's got a call on my life that we're doing our best to fulfill.

Martha: He really does. And, you know, that's why we want this conversation to start with the iWork4Him audience because we are working, but someday there's a future where financially that might change. And so what are we going to do with that? And how are we going to live out our purpose? So, Bruce, how can Retirement Reformation help Christ follower retirees and the pre retirees be ready to live out their life with purpose in those retirement years instead of just assuming they're going to be on vacation all the time?

Bruce Bruinsma: Well, first of all, you know, it's like anything else, you need to be informed and to be informed, like, like when you were. I remember as a seven year old, I was living in the Netherlands with my parents and was going to go to the first grade for the first time in a country that I didn't speak the language and so on.

So the key was, I need to know how to get there. Secondly, I needed to find, her name was Jafra van Doorn, the teacher. And Jafra van Doorn was absolutely wonderful of welcoming this young boy who didn't have a clue as to what he was doing. And so that allowed me to step into it.

What was the next stage? The next stage was to kind of learn the language and a new culture. And so as a young man, I was able to learn the language in a fairly short period of time and be able to adapt to what was that culture. And then as I adapted to that culture, I learned how I could be an integral part of it, and could interact and engage with other young people, with other kids, as well as adults in that environment.

So it's a constant, new revelation, but willing to step forward into that. And then to be guided by the power of the Holy Spirit. Also, you know, take a look at our website, RetirementReformation.org and all of the support materials that are there to help you step into what will be the next stage of your life journey.

Jim: Yeah. Next week, we are going to go a little bit more detail on how listeners can find purpose in their retirement. But before we go today, Bruce. Can you highlight what God really wants for us in our retirement?

Bruce Bruinsma: He wants us to find joy in his love for us and to express that in practical ways that represent him to the unknowing world. And to the world that, that is living with all the issues that affect our culture. And so that's his heart desire, and that we walk into his heart desire when we both experience his love, are connected with him, and become that neighbor that he talked about.

Martha: So very good. You know, we're going to continue this conversation like we alluded to, and I just want to remind our listeners that, to make sure that you don't miss a single episode, including the next one that's going to come out. I just want to encourage you to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform and leave a review on Apple. It really helps us to be able to get more people to know that there's a conversation like this happening.

And you can even share it with a friend. So your review helps us and we love you and we thank you for following along on this journey.

Jim: And if you really don't have a favorite podcast platform, you can always just sign up for the weekly blog that we sent out from iWork4Him and that also sends you the link to the latest podcasts.

So Bruce Bruinsma, thanks for being in here today from the Retirement Reformation, online at Retirement Reformation dot o R G. We look forward to our conversation next week. Thank you, Bruce.

Bruce Bruinsma: God bless. And thanks.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace is our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him!

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him. By going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

10/11/23 - 2011: Start Your Mentoring Journey

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet Online at Safernet.com.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: We got a new youth pastor when I was 15 or 16 years old. The youth pastor didn't take the time to really get to know me. He just judged me and said he didn't believe my faith was real. All because I was a little goofy and a little girl crazy. Who wasn't both of those things in high school?

Now I'm fifty-seven, and I'm still a little goofy and crazy about my girl Martha, but my faith was very real at 16. Even though my youth pastor refused to invest his life into me, one of the volunteer youth sponsors, Mike, invested his life in me. That investment in my life has made a difference for forty-plus years.

Now was Mike discipling me or mentoring me? Many would argue that being a disciple maker is inherently different than being a mentor. I disagree. Mentors help someone become more like themselves. Disciple makers help someone become more like Jesus. Discipleship invites someone to follow us as we follow Jesus and then step aside so that they can learn directly from the master himself.

I argue that Mike poured his Jesus life into my life and taught me not just about Jesus, but about life and Jesus. I got to live life with him and it changed me forever. Thank you, Mike. Today we're gonna dig deeper into the reality of discipleship and mentoring and its impact on us and our two guests today, John and Liz Jacobs.

They live this each and every day. John and Liz, thanks for joining us here on iWork4Him.

Liz Jacobs: Thanks guys. This is fun to be here.

John Jacobs: Yeah, thanks for having us.

Jim: If you try to focus on becoming more like Jesus, then mentoring someone is not getting them to try to be like you, but Jesus in you. John?

John Jacobs: Yeah. Yes. But I'm gonna just right away say, every time we've done it, I want to make discipleship or mentoring accessible and casual. So if we use words, discipleship, accountability, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna pour Jesus into you, the guys that I'm doing this with, the professionals at an executive level, can be intimidated.

So I'm gonna agree with you and say yes, but every time I try to do it, I bring the tone down and make it really casual so that they are receptive and then over a year's time they grow to be more like Jesus just by watching.

Martha: I love that because Jim and I actually were arguing about this today because I'm like why does it even matter what we call it?

But the, it's the, all of the stereotype, I think that goes with it when you're discussing it. So what, how do you refer to it, John, when you are talking with the guys that you're working with?

John Jacobs: I just call it accountability group. So for me, it's an accountability breakfast. So that takes the stigma off of it to get them to join, but then they learn pretty quickly it's deeper than that.

Martha: Awesome. And Liz, what about for you? How do you refer to what it is that God is calling you to do with people in this mentoring discipleship conversation?

Liz Jacobs: Yeah. There's been a couple of people that I've intentionally met with on a weekly basis for a long period of time, and we just called it mentoring discipleship, but I'm not worrying about those because these are young girls I've met through my church. Maybe they've called the church and asked, is there somebody older than me that would meet with me? So they were maybe even looking for it actively. So those words are okay, in my context, but as far as watching me or watching Jesus in Me, I always think about the Big Daddy Weave song.

I'm not sure if it's called My Story - if I tell you my story, I gotta talk about Jesus. That's my story. And so it's been great for me to be in these situations consistently through high school because I get to share my life through the lens of what God really is doing my life or what I'm learning about God.

And I just appreciate another opportunity to be intentional about these conversations and not just hang out and have coffee and tell me about your boyfriend and that's so great. Or what, how's school for you? It's. Asking the deeper questions and where are you finding God in that, or what does the scripture mean to you? Or, I remember when I was there and this is what I learned. So I'm trying to be really intentional about it. So discipleship is a fine word for me for those girls that are definitely younger than me or just really new in their faith.

Jim: When was the first time, Liz, that someone other than your parents invested their Jesus life into you?

Liz Jacobs: Definitely middle school, but I was 12 and my mom became a Christian. I wouldn't say my childhood was really full of God. We fought all the way to church. I wore shoes that were too small and a dress I hated. So going to church was not something fun for the six kids. And my parents, we were, half hour away and always late.

And I didn't know anyone there but I immediately got involved in a great church. Our family did right away. And I just was in a middle school bible study and it was a gal who was out of college, living in the house, working and volunteering for the church and working as a journalist in town.

And she just signed up to do a bible study and I went to it and it was six years that we met together.

Martha: Wow. So John, what about for you? Was there somebody that you can remember that first started having this kind of relationship with you?

John Jacobs: Yeah. Easy. It was a coach. A football coach, track coach, computer teacher, math teacher, one guy - God just kept colliding us. And then I was invited to Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and through this coach just, we connect and it is a lifetime of pouring in, but I had a lot to learn. Was raised Catholic so it was a very faith-filled family. But I had to learn what it was to be in the word, to understand what a personal relationship was.

I needed a whole lot of discipleship to just understand how to experience God differently, not better or worse, just differently than I had growing up. And Mike was that for me, which ultimately led to an FCA leadership conference in Estes Park, Colorado, where I heard that first invitation and it led me to the next morning, climb the mountain next to Estes Park and literally accept Christ on a mountaintop at sunrise.

So thank you, Mike Cooper.

Jim: Wow. So are you still in touch with Mike Cooper today?

Liz Jacobs: Oh yeah. He was in our wedding.

Jim: Your wedding? You got married 30 years ago. I'd say today. You still in touch with him today?

Liz Jacobs: Like he was an important part then and has continued to be.

John Jacobs: Yes. Yeah. At least monthly interaction with Coop.

Jim: That's awesome. So you would say that somebody older than you impacting or inserting their life into yours, introducing to Jesus, it made a pretty big impact then on your trajectory where you're today?

John Jacobs: Oh, for sure. Yeah. Eternal impact.

Liz Jacobs: Yeah. I just learned from the very beginning of my faith how to be vulnerable and just share with another woman who was a lover of Jesus and loved youth and did things well in her relationships and challenged me to do the same and saw a hungry heart to connect with her. And yeah, I learned from the very beginning that's where a lot of growth really happens.

Martha: What a blessing to have those kind of examples very clearly in both of your lives. I know that you probably hold them very dearly and know how precious that is. And not everybody experiences that, but when we think about the fact that you both were very young when these relationships were happening and these people were pouring into you, there's a lot of people that make generalizations and assume that today's younger generation don't wanna have this conversation.

We know that's not true, and one of our favorite resources that we wanna highlight today is by Grant Skelton, and it is his book called The Passion Generation, where he is speaking as a spokesperson for his own generation to say: we're hungry for this. We want relationships with people that are a little bit further on down the road than me in life and in a spiritual journey.

And so I just wanna encourage our listeners to look at the link that I'm putting in the show notes for that book and check it out. Grant actually wrote chapter 16 in our book, iRetire4Him that gives you a really good perspective of what goes on inside of his book, the passion generation. But they are longing for this relationship and we know that not enough people are stepping up into that role.

And so I hope that this show today will encourage people to look at their own lives, because both of you have talked about it's a very intentional decision in your lives, but you're not following some, 20 chapter manual on how to do it. And so I know we're gonna dig into that a little bit more.

Jim: And really what I'm seeing out there is that - when I first heard the words discipleship in many churches we've been to, it's like a program. Here you go, sixteen-week discipleship program, you're in, you're out, you're done, you're good. And that's not at all what we're talking about.

And that's not what the Passion Generation book, the Grand Skelton book is not talking about either. He's just, let me walk with you through life. Let me experience what you experience. I know we're gonna talk about Jesus along the way, but I just need somebody that's not where I'm at to show me how I can deal with it when I get there.

Martha: In fact, he calls those people, they're looking for chronologically superior. So somebody who's driven a little bit through there. What a beautiful way to say it, right? Not somebody older than me or having experienced more life, but chronologically superior. So it gives it a nice little positive spin.

Jim: All right. So John, have you ever heard this saying: everybody should have a Paul in their life, a Barnabas in their life and a Timothy? What's it mean to you?

John Jacobs: Yeah. For me it's I need somebody chronologically superior - I'm gonna use that - Chronologically Superior that is teaching me then somebody that I'm serving with, doing ministry with, and then somebody that I'm pouring into.

Liz Jacobs: We actually asked all of our kids to have those three things in their lives while they were in high school. And they had to report back to us and tell ,us at least our younger two.

John Jacobs: And we, at some point, my wife, who's smarter than me, figured out that sometimes we actually had to pay for that.

Liz Jacobs: So seriously. That's true. There were people that were maybe doing the job our kids dreamed about and wanting to do, and one of those people were running the AV at our church and our oldest really interested in that but maybe not gonna put himself out there to shake all the hands or volunteer for all that. He responded well when people would come to him.

And so I just gave a $20 bill to this dude and said, I would love to buy you lunch if you'll take my son out and just talk to him about what you do and teach him about it and ask him if he'd be interested. He talks a lot about you at home and at dinner. He is watching what you're doing. I think you're an awesome person. And he was like, yeah, I love your kid.

Jim: I'll take the 20! Today 20 wouldn't do it. You'd have to have a 50. But,

Liz Jacobs: I'm like, don't tell him I gave you the 20, but I'd love to buy you lunch. And if you would just call him I'd love to give you a heads up that he's really watching you really closely. And we just did that to people along the way and it was great. I think people love to know that because there's a lot of people that wouldn't be against any of that, but maybe they just don't consistently make room in their lives to spend that time with other people.

John Jacobs: And our kids wouldn't have responded. If they just invite our kids to go to lunch and they're gonna talk about church AV, or they're gonna talk about athletics, or they're gonna talk about music, then our kids are in.

Didn't have to be us. Yeah. It wasn't parents forcing them into a discipleship, mentoring, whatever. Oh, you gotta go to youth group. Which we did all those things too but this was those consistent, regular, periodic, informal casual interactions that turned into great friendships.

Liz Jacobs: Really. Yeah. And good relationships.

Jim: But, and I know exactly what you're talking about. So in, in junior high school and in senior high school, during the summertime, when I wasn't working at church camp, I dug ditches and foundations for a contractor who was also the computer teacher in high school, who was also a believer, who was also my neighbor.

And he poured his life into me one shovel full of dirt or one bucket full of cement at a time. And he's the one that shaped my initial career. He said, Jimmy, you need to get into computers. That's the wave of the future. And I'm like this guy told me I should do that. I should probably do that.

Even though my father says, no, that's not a good idea. But my father wasn't a believer at the time, and this guy was, so I listened to him. But, he poured his life, very informal relationship. But I'll never forget the impact that Paul Conrad had on my life because he invested in me and I was squirrely. I was a hard worker, but I was a little squirrely. I noticed you're not arguing with that.

Martha: Oh no. I've heard this. You've shared this all of our married life and, I love the fact that yes, he was paying you a wage, but he saw it as so much more than that because you could work by side with a teenager all day and not say anything productive or you can choose to be intentional and feed into that person to see them grow and be nurtured. And really, that's what we're talking about here. Oh, Jim wants to ask you something else.

Jim: I just, right now in your life, let's just start with you, Liz. Do you have a Pauline? And a Barbie? And a Tina in your life?

Liz Jacobs: Oh my gosh, that's so funny. A Pauline, a Barbie and a Tina. He had to go there. I think it's a new sitcom or something. Yeah, actually I would say that I consistently have had Barnabas's and Timothy's in my life.

I always am looking for friends who are doing what I'm doing that have the same values or our kids maybe connect or our couples connect wherever I am volunteering or working. And super intentional about that. And we've moved 12 times, so we had a lot of restarts. That we had to pursue people and knock on doors and make cookies and introduce ourselves and seek people out.

So that hasn't been hard. But now I'm actually week three, week four, into meeting with someone that I'm not paying to be my Paul. And what I mean by that is a counselor, a life coach, somebody that I am scheduling time out for a season. And I love that too. We've had, I had a spiritual director I worked with for six months, about three years ago, four years ago.

And that's a person who just creates space for you of where you hear God where do you see God moving? And she just really, in a time that I was needing joy or more hope, it was really great to meet with her and she's so wise and we were in the word together the whole time. It was just really beautiful.

And I say that is a Paul in my life for sure. I just, I needed that. And then a life coach November through this last May, working with me, which is so great. And again, a spirit filled situation where we were in the word together and she was meeting me right where I was and asking me questions.

But now it's a gal named Mary who was in our lives when we moved to Minnesota and knows Martha, your parents. Mary Lebinski. And I had been encouraging several people over the last six months, you really need to be working and discipling someone or mentoring someone. It's just, it's so great to be in a situation where you're living a life out loud in front of people, vulnerable.

It just really sharpens your focus and your quiet time and being intentional with these people. And, we're in our fifties now. We have something to say and we kind have a badge where maybe people will listen to us now. But I said, I keep saying that, but I'm not meeting with someone right now.

And so I told John, I go, I think I'll call Mary Lebinski. I haven't talked with her in months and months. I'm just wondering if she would do that with me and do Zoom 'cause she's in Minnesota. I didn't call her just, I don't know why. I kept wanting it, but I just didn't pick up the phone and call.

And she texted me one day and said I had this great memory of when Ryan was little. She was a big part of our life and our youngest was born and it just made me smile and made me think of you, and I really miss you. And so I picked the phone up and I said, Hey, Mary.

Jim: Hey Mary. God's been telling me to call you for three months, but I've been ignoring God, and so I'm glad you listened to God and called me to get this conversation.

 (laughter)

Liz Jacobs: What I'll say is I feel so strongly about it, but all of my attention and focus have really been preparing for who I'm mentoring. And like we have this newly marrieds group that we love and there's eight couples, but I talk with these eight girls individually every week by text, continuing on a conversation we might have had.

And then we're meeting with them on the weekends. And so that's so much time. I wasn't deciding that it was worth making more room for me to prepare and meet with someone who would be a Paul to me. And so the beautiful thing was we both acknowledged the Holy Spirit's moving in both of our hearts and bringing our paths together because I never really have done that, but I just signed up at my church to do this for a younger girl, and I've been preparing for six weeks for it, and we're starting this week, so I'm saying yes to you because that's all I've been doing this summer is preparing to mentor someone.

Martha: Oh, that's so beautiful. And to be able to see God's hand in that timing of all of it. So John, I just wanna ask you, first of all, I just wanna acknowledge the fact that, you are continuing to look for where God wants you to be and I think that's a big key to this conversation.

 But John, has there been a time in your life when you haven't had these relationships and why?

John Jacobs: Yeah. As I think about that, there's seasons in life, I think that God intentionally puts you in because there's some things that you need to learn. I tend to run with the throttle wide open. And there's a famous line if you're a movie buff, Hunt for Red October, where the submarines are, have their sonar on, which all of us have our sonar on. I'm always looking like, where's God moving? Trying to go where he is. But there's a line in that Hunt for Red October that their sonar, they're actively putting their sonar, but they're going too fast to hear the response.

So if you're going too fast, it's very difficult for you to hear the response from what's coming back for your sonar. So I think there's been times in my life where I haven't had that, that I'm supposed to be spend more time and quiet time, more time in the word. In seasons, full seasons of time just studying and preparing, and then all of a sudden the right person crosses paths and then something big happens, which has happened in several occasions. I think those seasons are intentional and now I think I tend to look for them for a chance to slow down a bit.

Liz Jacobs: It came with our moves too. When you're resetting in a new city in a new place. There's a season where we didn't maybe have that. And that was a time before Zoom calls.

We could always pick up the phone and call someone. We've always had support. Always. Always. And so our first priority was to get in a small group wherever we were. And so I think some of these relationships were naturally happening. And that's how I met, this gal Mary. They were leading our small group, so we probably always had great things being spoken over us and we were in front of people to be vulnerable and practice those things, but not intentionally where we'd say right now I'm being mentored by this person.

Jim: Yeah I love the transparency and we're grateful for that. Martha, sometimes our daily iWork4Him Power Thoughts that are playing on radio stations with people listening on Facebook. They can listen, they can subscribe to 'em on Apple podcast.

Those can be like having a recorded Paul or Barnabas in your life. And I just wanna encourage you, listeners, you could subscribe to the weekday podcast. It's five days a week that gives you a minute of either encouragement or challenge. Depends on whether Martha's reading it or I'm reading it or either way.

But as you head into your workday, you can listen to this, and we're gonna put the link to subscribing to our power thoughts right there on, on today's show. But you can also find our power thoughts on our website or on our Facebook feed. We'd encourage you to get checked, connected to 'em. We put a lot of time and effort into writing that one minute that it can just impact and get your day started.

I take the final part of our conversation, John and Liz even deeper because everybody's going: okay, great. Love the conversation. Yes. I need to have a mentor in my life. Yes. I need to have an encourager in my life. Yes. I need to have somebody I'm pouring my life into. How do I get started? What do you think? Give some advice.

John Jacobs: Okay. So this is big for me. When we moved back to Kansas City, I had a pastor friend that knew both of us, actually had a deeper history with Liz. Called me and said, I'm really being stirred by God and I've read this book and I wanna run something by you. And it's turned into a truly life-changing event that's gonna answer exactly what you just asked Jim.

 The theory of the book that he read was that you take, you invite two men to do this informal mentoring. I'll call it mentoring, I call it accountability. And you really, you just say, I just wanna meet with you, but I want this to be serious and I want it to be weekly breakfast. You don't have to prep, you don't have to do homework, but you have to come ready to be transparent.

And so you make that commitment and you're gonna do it for a year. And in that year, you're gonna meet every week. If you're traveling, you just have to coordinate it. But basically you're gonna, you're gonna meet once a week and you're gonna answer four questions. How's your relationship with God this week? How is your relationship with your spouse this week? How is your relationship with your kids or significant others if your kids are gone? And then what are you tempted and struggling with? That, that changes every week. And if you're transparent, that can change wildly. Your answers. Your life circumstance.

And so he asked if I would do that, and I did it for a year. And he said, now here's the deal. I want you to do it for a year, and then I want you to be committed that at a year we're gonna be really comfortable with each other and we're gonna have been so honest, you're gonna wanna stay in this group.

And I'm gonna say no. And say, we're gonna break at a year and you're gonna go find two new people. And the theory is that this is gonna exponentially grow and you're gonna grow this body of believers that are men that typically don't want to get together and talk, but you're just gonna keep exponentially growing in this.

That was 13 years ago for me, and so I've done that 13 times. I counted up a little bit in preparation for this, that there's been twenty-seven men I've met with over 13 years. And I will tell you regretfully, that maybe less than one hand is the number of men - every single one, a hundred percent said it was one of the best years they've ever had, but less than 10 have gone on to do it that second year, and it is that simple.

Jim, you asked, what do you do? You just have to pick two people and ask them to meet for breakfast. And that is so hard for us as believers. These are people who poured into each other for a year that struggle,

Liz Jacobs: and some weren't even Christians.

John Jacobs: A few, a handful were not.

Liz Jacobs: Just seeking. Didn't really know.

John Jacobs: Yeah. So I've had, I've met with some Pauls, some Barnabas and some Timothes all throughout that period. So it can be all three. It doesn't have to be always somebody that's chronologically superior to you, or somebody that's not. But anyway it, it has been life changing for me. I know it's been life changing for them.

The challenge is, and I start working up as we're working towards the end of the year just motivating them and saying, this isn't a Bible study. You don't have to have a whole bunch of embedded knowledge. You're not teaching, you're simply setting up a breakfast time. So anyway, so the answer to your question is you have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and ask.

But it, every single year, it's just, it's fresh and new and incredible. So anyway, it was, it's been hugely life-changing for me.

Martha: And I love the fact that it is not - there are great programs out there, but this is not. This is real, authentic, transparent conversation with four very simple, yet hard to ask questions each and every week.

So Liz the same thing for you. How does it look practically for you right now?

Liz Jacobs: So I think it's also for me just praying and asking the Lord who needs this? So I do pray about that because I'm wanting to start a Bible study in September and I'm like, oh man, it started in mid August and I don't know who's ready to do this.

And so I'm just committing to pray for that. I bought the books and everything, but I also have called our church before. I think I alluded to this earlier, is there somebody here in the congregation that you would suggest I could call that might wanna meet with me? And I have been a person twice that younger girls in just awesome maturity have called the church and said, I really need someone to mentor me. Do you know somebody older that would be willing to do it? And both times they're like Liz Jacobs would do that.

 And I just gotta make room. Like for me, if someone's asking unless I'm sick or have some tragedy or something we're dealing with, I just have to say yes. You just have to be available to say yes and somebody offers it up.

But also I've been just seeking out some people who are central to, like our church, mostly around our church to say - there was a gal who is my age who said I was teaching her son piano and she said, I just wanna know if we could meet for, weeks of time, could we do a semester?

And it turned into being two years where you would mentor me. And I looked at her and I go, that's dumb. We're the same age. What are you talking about? You became a Christian when you were six. I know, but I think I just need to meet with someone. And so we would laugh 'cause we knew a lot of the same people, but if we were out walking together, we would walk and pray.

It was a very physically active thing we did, which is so great. And if we saw someone, she'd always say, Liz is mentoring me. And I'd be like, I think Sandy is mentoring me. But it was really good. I think she needed a friend. They had a lot of great friends, but she was finding that people just were not willing to be vulnerable.

And I think she got that vibe from me and she just needed someone that would just not only hear her vulnerable heart to say, yeah, I get that. Me too, or I don't know. I really struggle with this. Instead of where she couldn't feel like she could ever be honest with people because they would talk about her or whatever.

Jim: Liz, you just said something. Okay. You know she said you're mentoring her, but you're saying no, but I'm getting mentored. I imagine both of you would say that no matter who you're pouring your life into, it always goes both ways, doesn't it?

Liz Jacobs: It does. And I think the goal of having Timothy's in your life is to bring them to a part where you're, then you're walking together. And so that changes after time too.

Jim: I thought that was, it could help us with our cell phones. I thought that.

Martha: That, that's a benefit too. Okay. But you know that really speaks true of the couples that you're feeding into 'cause as we feed into other couples, it grows your own marriage as well, right?

Jim: It sure does. Oh yeah.

John Jacobs: We're, yes, seeing all these young marrieds and just getting to hang out with 'em and see their energy and yeah, we pour into them. We keep saying we're not teaching them anything, we're just sharing our experiences and all of the mistakes we've made and all the things that we've learned and we get so much back from them and it's great.

Jim: You just living life together, John and Liz Jacobs, phenomenal conversation. We encourage everybody listening to be just like John and Liz. Pour your life into somebody else.

But John and Liz, thanks for sharing your story. Thanks for encouraging all of us to pour our lives into others and to get people to invest in our lives, but to hold people accountable, to be involved in mentoring, discipling relationships, whatever you wanna call it. But just to be a Paul and a Barnabas and a Timothy maybe all at the same time to different people, but thank you John and Liz.

John Jacobs: Thank you guys for having us and thank you for what you do and inspiring people at work to bring your faith outside of just what happens casually on the weekends or in your home and go to work with you 'cause it's truly inspirational what you guys are doing. It's beyond the topic of this, but your work is incredible. It matters greatly. Thanks for what you guys are doing.

Jim: Yeah it's a privilege. Always a privilege.

Hey, there's so many tools available, but what really matters is that you make your heart and your life available to others. If you're interested in a journey of mentoring others to impact the kingdom, reach out to me, jim@iWork4Him.com and we can chat some more.

You've been listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha. Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him. By going to iwork4Him.com/bookstore .

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit IWorkForHim.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

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10/4/23 - 2010: Celebrate the Blessed Alliance!

Martha: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet. Online at SaferNet.com.

Jim: You've tuned into, iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Well, let's find out right now.

Jim: You know, it's a fact. Women make up fifty-five percent of the workforce, thirty-six percent of the workforce identify as born again believers in Jesus Christ. That makes 19,800,000 Christian working women. Today we focus on celebrating the Christian working woman.

Why? Because they deserve it! Of course, Christian working women have been given a unique set of gifts, talents, and spiritual abilities to walk within their workplace, be like Jesus, and do work with excellence. We don't often hear sermons celebrating Christian working women, but you're gonna hear a conversation today that highlights how God intended for Christian working women to be ministers in their workplace, too.

Catherine Gates and Amy Cedrone, join us today from the Polished Network online at PolishedNetwork.org. These two ladies are world changers and we're excited that you get to meet them now. Catherine and Amy, welcome to iWork4Him.

Amy Cedrone: Great to be here. Thank you so much.

Catherine Gates: We're so glad to be here.

Martha: So, Amy, we're gonna just start with you. Tell us a little bit about your work story. What led you to be the leader at Polished?

Amy Cedrone: Yeah, thanks for asking. It was kind of a, a bumpy journey to get here and I think a lot of women share that kind of same journey, you know, but I, I started out in the medical field back when I was young and before children, so I have a kinda traditional work background.

But then my husband and I were called into missions and so we started pursuing full-time, missionary work. And then the Lord changed our direction there when my mother got sick with Alzheimer's, and so we became some of her caregivers and through that went to seminary. So Plan B, you know, I think Plan B stands for plan best. You know, it's the, it's the one that we typically end up with, not our plan. A.

Went to seminary, had a ministry role as a pastor, a woman's pastor, young adult pastor at a church, a teaching pastor. And then through that I was asked to speak at a Polished webinar. And my friend Catherine and I both have a dear friend, Joy Dahl, who is the executive director at Polished Network at the time, asked me to come on as a national director because Polished was expanding, and I said yes to the Lord.

It seemed like the the next faithful step. And then when Joy moved on from this role, I was approached to be the executive director. So that's kind of my trajectory into this faith and work ministry that we have. So that's my journey.

Jim: So why, before we go on to Catherine, just tell us really what's polished all about. I mean, just give us the 30 second infomercial on Polished.

Amy Cedrone: Yeah. You know, what we, we try to do is we try to embolden women in their faith and work. And when we say embolden, we think that this encapsulates equipping, empowering and encouraging women. And so we want them to be bold as leaders in their workplace.

We want them to lead with excellence. We want them to grow as leaders and influence makers in their work. So we have professional development opportunities for for that, but we also want them to be bold in their faith. We want them to grow in their relationship with Jesus Christ. Because we do believe, like you said in your intro, that a woman's ministry, her mission field, is right between her feet.

And so we want them to be bold in both how they lead and how they lead their Christian walk as well.

Jim: That's great imagery 'cause I'm picturing a toddler between their feet and I'm, I'm picturing the garbage on the floor at their feet, and then I'm picturing 'em as they're walking in high heels on their feet. That's a great, great image. I love that.

Catherine Gates is also with us today, and we go way back with Catherine Gates. We first met Catherine Gates when she was working within the Work Matters organization. Then she went on to be part of Women in the Marketplace outta Cincinnati, Ohio, and now you're with Polished. Catherine, it's an amazing journey. We've watched and walked alongside with you. What led you to be part of Polished today?

Catherine Gates: It has been an amazing, amazing journey, Jim. It really has. I've been reflecting on it actually the last couple of weeks, especially as we launched our second Polished chapter in the Northwest Arkansas area in Siloam Springs.

And, and just looking at a couple of the women in the room who were part of what we had started back in 2017 that was called Christian Women in the Workplace. So my journey has been, you know, my career journey has been very securitas. If you look back now, I can see how God's hand was in all of it, and he hasn't wasted anything.

And I just wanna say that as an encouragement to those women who may feel a little lost in the wilderness in their career, God doesn't waste a moment of it. I mean, I started out as a program software developer. I've done sales training and instructional design, worked for a small nonprofit that helped bring mothers into community with other mothers.

And so I do have, God really started putting women more heavily on my heart in terms of serving them in their work. You know, many years ago, but certainly after I started working for Work Matters in 2013. I was meeting with a lot of different women who were expressing the frustration they were experiencing because they were struggling to find community with other working women who cared about integrating their faith into their work.

They'd go to business networking events and meet people, but there was no conversation about their faith. They go to church events or maybe they couldn't because they were scheduled at times that conflicted with their work or their family time. But even when they did, they weren't encouraged in their work.

There was not a lot of conversation about women in the workplace and how to support that. And so we thought, let's just, do something ourselves. Right? So we started just a grassroots Christian women in the workplace. We, we started offering women the opportunity to meet over lunch, bring in a speaker, and oh my goodness, women were starving for it.

Women would show up like, you know, months into it for the first time and say, how did I not know about this? I've needed this for so long. And that's when we started thinking how do we make this available to more working women across the country? And that's when I connected with Kathy Book, who had founded Women in the Marketplace at the same time we started Christian Women in the Workplace in 2017, and we started talking about how we could collaborate.

She's got a very collaborative heart as well. And so what ended up happening was I joined Women in the Marketplace in 2021 as their executive director, and that very same month is when I got introduced to Joy Dahl and the Polished Network. They were about to launch their very first conference and I had just come off of organizing the Work Matters conference, which was not my primary job, but it just so happened in twenty-twenty that, that we just needed all hands on deck.

And so I stepped in and so I had a lot of information and resources and speaker ideas and connections to share with Joy. So our collaboration really started there. And then, that went so well that we decided, hey, let's come along the Polished network. Like really put our money where our mouth is, literally come in and, and collaborate with them to make sure this Boldly conference can continue in 2022.

And so we supported it financially. I joined the team and I gotta tell you, Jim and Martha, I would be in those team meetings and I would be like, you know what? If anybody was watching us, you wouldn't know that we work for two different organizations. It was such a blast that Kathy Book, by the time Boldly came around, she said, you know what?

I feel like the Lord is calling us to consider coming together, like really, truly being one organization. And so we covered that in prayer. That has definitely been a Holy Spirit led journey. We've gone deep into prayer with it. Tracy Mathews from Attune to Grow has been a facilitator for us and really supported us along this journey.

And I'll tell you, it is just the best. We've had to come at it with very open hands, everybody contributing, everybody having more of a kingdom mindset, and it has been just a dream come true beyond anything I could have imagined.

Martha: Which is not something to take lightly, right? That is a huge thing for two organizations to decide to come together and to merge in, in spirit, already being merged in spirit.

I mean, just through hearing your testimony like, but to be able to organizationally and personnel-wise and everything come together for one common good. And you know, I just really wanna celebrate that. Thank you for sharing that. I love hearing the diversity of both of your backgrounds because God has had you, like you said, he never wastes anything.

You know, he has been building on your work life for such a time as this. And I'm curious to know - first let's just talk about, like right now in your work, do you feel Amy, like you are celebrated by those around you that support you spiritually and in your church?

Amy Cedrone: Yeah. Yes and no. You know the people that are around me at church, absolutely. This team that I work with, by these amazing just kind of cohorts in ministry. We have connections with some amazing, amazing organizations and there's a lot of conversation happening right now amongst organizations in faith and work for women, in those arenas where we really are seeing this coming together.

And, and that's been just a beautiful thing, celebrating what one another does well, talking about how we can find alignment and those kinds of things. And so I do feel celebrated by that, you know, but I still think there's work to do.

I think that you know, Billy Graham said that the workplace was gonna be the next, you know, big mission field. I think more and more people need to know about what's happening in the faith and work arena. And so I, I, by nature of the need to get that message out to help women envision their workplace as their mission field, there's still work to be done.

I'd love to be celebrated in those places where we have yet to step our foot. One of the reasons why we brought Catherine Gates on as our VP of business partnerships, you guys know, I call Catherine the human bridge. She is just a connector of people. In such a beautiful way, God uses her like that.

But we wanna expand our reach and with her background being able to get into some different businesses that we haven't been able to break through yet. Development of ERGs Employment Resource Groups is on her radar. She's starting something called Collaboratories, which are leadership peer groups, and these are ways that we're hoping to break into some of those spaces where we are not yet.

And hopefully we'll be celebrated because of that, but I do feel very supported by those around me who know what we're doing at the Polished network. We just know that the harvest is still plentiful.

Jim: Well, and I, Amy, I just, love how you and Catherine have come together, taken women in the marketplace and the Polished network and come together and just created an even better Polished network and I'm super excited. We're gonna talk a little later in the show about the Boldly Conference coming up here in October 2023. But I just wanna celebrate and congratulate the two of you for saying, okay, this is the Holy Spirit's Ministry. Women working, Christian working women are such a valuable resource that we need to feed into and we could do this more effectively together.

There's economies of scale to be had, but there's also an efficiency and effectiveness that can happen when the two of us work together. And yes, we compete with Catherine with the connectedness. We're always, we're always trying to compete with who knows more people. That's right. But

I want everybody listening. If you are running an organization and there's another organization out there doing the same thing or very similar to what you're doing, consider joining forces because you can save money, do things more effectively when you work together. That's what Jesus said in John 17. They'll know that you are my followers when you walk in unity. Yeah, it's important.

Martha: Mm-Hmm. So, you know. Jim, one of the things that we've really seen is this gap in this conversation about Christian working women, and you are such an advocate for the Christian working women, that we ended up creating sheWorks4Him for the everyday Christian working woman, and that included a season of podcasts where Catherine is actually one of my co-hosts.

And the sheWorks4Him book where Catherine actually contributed a chapter. So if anyone reads these stories of the 18 different women and how God has worked in their workplace, it is an encouragement and a resource for them to walk this journey out. And for any size donation, we would be happy to send you a copy of sheWorks4Him, found on our website at iWork4Him.com. if you go there we actually have a little fish icon that says sheWorks4Him there and that can navigate you to all of this sheWorks4Him content that is there.

Jim: So, Catherine, question back to you. What is the best way that you see to support a Christian working woman?

Catherine Gates: I have seen, Jim Christian working women, as I started to say earlier - they need community. They need to know they're not alone. And I'll tell you over the last few years, isolation has only increased, especially for working women. And so what they need more than anything is that opportunity to connect with other working women to realize, oh, I'm not the only one struggling with this.

I am not a, I'm not a terrible person because I am dealing with this. I do have something to contribute. I know how to do that. Or this is a way I can grow through that. These are strategies, you know, we need community to see that. There are ways to work together to encourage each other.

We need to pray with and for one another, you know, so that community is so key. I've seen it at again and again. When somebody comes to a polished chapter luncheon, they like, literally, I've seen women in tears because they finally found a place where they can be themselves, where they can bring their whole selves, where it is safe, they can be vulnerable and authentic and encouraged.

And, and also share and contribute to other women. And so that's number one is just that community, but also Christian working women need resources to help them grow in their leadership, regardless of whether they wanna be in the C-suite or in an executive's role. Or they want to be their best as an individual contributor and be able to contribute to the strategies and success of the organization.

They need leadership resources and that's why we've started the WIM Collaboratories, those leadership peer groups that Amy mentioned. As well as we are offering workshops and of course at our events and at our conferences, we are always bringing amazing women who can share their leadership journey and women can learn from them as well.

Martha: You know, I love where this conversation is going and when we, and any of the listeners that are leaning in right now and saying, you know, I either am that person that needs that, or I know someone that needs that in their life. And so, you know, that's why we have these conversations, why we bring it to our listeners so that they can know that there is that resource out there to help with that support and encouragement and connectivity.

So Amy, I would love to, A lot of people, you know, don't really...

Jim: I'm trying to figure out why you're not gonna ask me this question. So the question, Amy, Martha's gonna ask Amy is, you know, what advantages do Christian working women bring to the table that Christian working men don't? Well, I'm thinking the things, okay, but lemme give you my perspective then I'll get Amy's perspective.

Because I just, you know, here's the deal. This is one of the things, I mean, sheWorks4Him is kind of almost my idea. Sorta, I mean, Christian working women bring they bring nurturing to the workplace because they actually have feelings and they're, they've never been taught to stuff those feelings inside.

So they bring a sensitivity to people that men don't typically bring. One of the other things that I think is super powerful that women bring to the workplace that men don't is the ability to hear the voice of God more clearly. Women have an inroad to hearing God's voice better than men. I don't know how to explain it other than it's a connectivity inside.

So Amy, those are the two things I see. I mean, also sensitivity, I mean grace and mercy and sensitivity. Those things that just seem to be emboldened or how about this, how about the built right into the DNA of women? That doesn't always come up.

Martha: Well, what you often say, Jim, is when God took the rib out of Adam, some of those things that came out that were more dominant in the female, you know, are those things that you were, that you were speaking about? Not universally. We have, we know that we all have different things that we are lacking in our lives as far as mercy and grace and things like that. But in general we do bring those things to the table differently. Amy, is there anything else you would add to that of what you see that women do bring to the table to help?

Amy Cedrone: Yeah. I'm so grateful that you asked the question and Jim, I love hearing from a brother in Christ how, how you value women.

And what they bring to the table. So I just wanna say thank you from the top here that you would even be willing to share that and recognize what Carolyn Custis James calls the Blessed Alliance. You know, we are not the same. Men and women are not the same. But man, they were created to collaborate together. You're talking about the garden. Man, Genesis, that's my jam. You know, and they were created to work together. And what I, I love how she calls it the Blessed Alliance. And so there are things that are unique to women, but I think one of the things I would add is that when men and women work together and value one another, you increase your perspective.

There are things that men are designed by, I think, by the Lord that they bring to the workplace, and I think women in the same way bring certain traits. I'll give you another one to add to your list. This idea, this ability to multitask. One of the things we're talking about at the, at the Boldly conference is this, this mental load that women carry.

For example, you know, working women still go home, make dinner, especially if they have children, take care of, they're usually the leaders as far as taking care of their kids. Those kinds of things. So they, they have a lot of things extra on their plate that they can juggle. I think we have a, can I use the, can I make a term jugglability?

I think that that women can bring to the table too, but that's not a deficit for men. I think that there's just unique traits that we bring, and so the thought about men and women working together, what do women bring? What they bring is a fuller perspective, and that's only gonna help and strengthen an organization or a business place when when we widen our perspective.

Jim: I just, defense of all men listening to the show today, I mean it, you know, we're task oriented. That's how we shop and that's how we do things. We start and we wanna finish a task, and if it's left undone, it drives us crazy. But that's where the multitasking, I mean, you can do five things at one time. You can't really do five things at one time, but you can have five open things going at one time, and it's okay.

I can't handle that. I need counseling if I have five open things all the time.

Catherine Gates: We need both. That's the point. We need both. In fact, there's been some research done where if a company has one woman, even just one woman, on the board versus a company that has all men, that company will outperform those other companies by 26%.

Just because of that diverse perspective, just because of some of the points, Jim, that you made of that more people-oriented focus, that nurturing, that intuition that women bring that's heightened. Not that men don't have it, but women tend to have a heightened sense of that and so I mean, yeah, we need to, we need to make sure that we're elevating the women as well working together.

Jim: It's a theology thing and people don't think about it this way. Everything that was in Adam was in Adam and Eve. So we had two bodies, but they had to come together as one to represent what they were before, all in Adam. And so when Eve was taken out of Adam, all of those gifts, talents, and abilities that now were in woman used to be in man, and so it created a deficit. But also those things that were in Eve are not in Adam, and so they have to come together as one. And that works in marriage. It works in the marketplace, it works everywhere. It should also work in the Four Walls church, which is why I wanna go into the next question.

What is the best way for our local bodies of Christ to celebrate the spiritual gifts of Christian working women? Is it by asking them to constantly serve in the nursery?

Catherine Gates: It really is to, to make sure that women have opportunities to share their experiences, their expertise, their leadership.

You know, just as a man might be asked to be an elder, and I'm not gonna go into the different philosophies about that, you know, let's just just be inclusive of everybody, but there are still leadership roles that women can be asked to take on in the church. They can be asked to mentor. I'll tell you, one of the things that comes to mind with this question is the huge deficit of discipleship.

We need more discipleship and so we need more working women who have succeeded, who have experienced, to be mentoring and leading the, the less experienced working women, the other women.

Jim: But that whole idea of discipleship is such an overwhelming, and, and, and just people hear that word discipleship, like, I can't disciple. Yeah. Really we need to, we need to shift the thinking, shift the understanding of discipleship to understand that it's really mentoring 'cause it's really, I'm gonna take my Jesus life that's in me and I'm gonna walk alongside you so you can experience my Jesus life in me while we're working through life together.

Because it's mentoring and disciples at the same time. Because people would think, well, I don't have, I don't have a curriculum to go through discipleship. You know what? Jesus didn't have a curriculum and neither did Paul or Peter or James or John. They just lived life alongside each other and they lived their Jesus life alongside somebody who needed to learn from them.

So I'm just interested, I'm sorry, Martha, I kind jumped in.

Martha: That's okay. That's alright.

Jim: Amy. do you ever get tired of being asked to serve in the nursery at your church?

Amy Cedrone: I have never been asked to serve in the nursery. My husband served in the nursery. I'm not even kidding.

But you know, I think to answer that question, it's a good question. What can churches do? They can know and seek to understand what the gifts and abilities are of the women in their congregations. Don't just assume that this is where they're, they're best fit because they're a female, but they could do some kind of deep dive into the spiritual giftedness of their congregation and then find places to then plug them in according to their gifts and according to their abilities there in the church.

The other thing I would say is that to, to know about organizations like iWork4Him and sheWorks4Him, and resource the working women in your church so that they can grow. And same thing with- tell them about Polished . Encourage a watch group for the Boldly conference. Do those things.

A lot of times working women can't attend the Wednesday morning Bible study because they're at work. So what else are you doing as a church to equip working women and to resource working women? That's another thing that they could do.

Catherine Gates: One of the things I just wanna add to that, if I could. You know, one of the things that, to Amy's point, you know, there are so many Bible studies that are happening in churches that are at times that just working women, it doesn't, it doesn't work for them. However, there, first of all, there are resources out there to help working women understand how to integrate their faith at work.

Then you can also equip those women to do outreach into their workplaces, to bring those resources and create a small group, get a small group of women together in their workplaces over lunch to go through some of these materials. That way not only are they studying God's word, but they're also doing professional development.

They're growing in their professional lives as leaders, as workers, as coworkers, as teammates, to understand what it looks like to bring your whole self to work so they can be their best selves. So that's another, another thing to consider is how can a church equip those women to do outreach to women who maybe aren't gonna step foot in a church otherwise?

Martha: That's such a good point. And I love this conversation about the church seeing that role and how to equip not for just within the four walls, right? Because that is what we do in other areas, you know, whether it's a visitation program or whether it's a, a sports program. You know, what is the church doing to help the Christian working woman live out her mission that God's called her to in that workforce that may never, that probably will never step foot inside the church, but we can minister to them every day in our workplace?

Jim: You know what I love is that, you know, a balanced church that is an effective church in a local community is a church that recognizes the spiritual giftedness of all of the human beings within its walls. And that's something we need to do. And I'm sick and tired of constantly, I mean, even in our class in our small little town, they come in, a woman comes in and says, Hey, there's little kids here today. Can somebody volunteer in the nursery? She never asks the guys. She always goes to the women.

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Martha, I think before we go today, we really need to talk about the Boldly conference.

Martha: Love that. So, you know, let's just talk about what is the annual Boldly conference that is coming up and just tell people what they can expect. It's on October 20th. I mean, I know we'll, we'll get into all those details, but you know, Amy, why don't you just start with what was the desire behind the Polished network to start this conference and telling women what they could be looking forward to when they attend?

Amy Cedrone: Yeah, thank you for that question. It was started in 2020, you know, and the idea was created in 2020 and so we were really focused on how do we connect working women in a season where women are just so isolated and so unconnected, disconnected. But the heart of Joy Doll, who is that Boldly was her brain child is that she really wanted to provide a broad means of professional development for Christian women with a faith-forward perspective. And so that was kind of the heart of it. I'm about to cough, so I'm gonna let Catherine jump in here and share a little bit more about that.

Catherine Gates: Yeah. So all the speakers are women who bring to the table experience in integrating their faith at work, in being successful in leadership. And so one of the things that we are always focused on is that every speaker provides biblical perspective and very practical tools that women can walk away with.

This year we're so excited. Our theme is to be renewed, be emboldened, and be transformed. And it's based on Romans 12, one and two. You know, offer your body's living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. And we are just thrilled as I, I have been working with the speakers to fine-tune their messages.

And we've got Joe Saxton, Megan Alexander, Mindy Lawhorn, of course Kat Armstrong, the Co-founder of Polished and many, many more. And Tracy Mathews will be talking about Attune as well. Just so many amazing speakers who really are going to drive home the sense of how can we invest in our personal development, our professional development, and then also our transformation.

Martha: Hmm. Amy, any final words you wanna add to that as we just encourage people to join us for the Boldly conference?

Amy Cedrone: Yes, thank you. If you can, you know, we're not live streaming this year, the Boldly conference. It's in person in Dallas. And you know, that might mean a drive for some people if they wanna attend in person.

And I would encourage them if they wanna meet other working women, we're gonna have times of facilitation, times of networking. This would be such an opportunity to make that step of faith and say, I need this. I need personal growth. I need spiritual growth. This would be a great way of doing it. We are also selling the recording, and so if you, maybe you're thinking, gosh, what's one step I can take in my own workplace that I can encourage women to grow in their, their leadership, and in their faith?

To gather a group of co-workers, to gather a group of women at your own church, working women at your own church, the Boldly Conference is an opportunity for them to do that. So if they're asking the Lord, I agree with all of this. I understand this. The blessed Alliance, I know that I need to grow in my leadership and my own faith, but I don't know what next step to take. The boldly Conference would be a great next step for you to take, and the Holy Spirits tapping you on the shoulder right now. If you're listening and saying, this might be what, what I have for you, I would encourage you to take that step. And to come to the Boldly conference or to purchase the recording and watch it. It's an easy, low-hanging fruit.

Martha: Excellent. And we will have links in the show notes at the end. And I'm just so grateful for both of you for joining us today. Amy Cedrone and Catherine Gates from the Polished Network. And then we're specifically talking about the Boldly Conference that's coming up.

I'm excited 'cause I'm gonna be driving to Dallas myself to attend and that is on October 20th and I even have a promo code MARTHA20. So if there's anyone listening that would like to get some additional savings and join me for that conference, I would love for you to do that. And let me know you're coming because I'd love to sit with you and we can chat and be encouraged together in this process.

Jim: And take a Martha selfie!

Martha: And take a Martha selfie along the way. We will have a table and door prizes and things like that as well. So thank you so much everybody. I look forward to seeing you at the Boldly Conference.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch More Workplace Missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him.com. I work the number four him.com.

9/27/23 - 2009: Your One-Way Ticket to Intentionality

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him is brought to you by SaferNet Online. Safernet.com.

You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: And we are your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. So what does that mission field look like in your workplace? We're gonna find out right now.

Jim: Yeah. The first week in November, iWork4Him and Follower of One.org will embark on our second Marketplace Mission Trip. We invite every one of you to join us. We would love to get to know you. We'll provide a link in the show notes today and on our website. iWork4Him.com, that's I work the number 4 Him.com.

iWork4Him, came into existence because of the realization that our workplace is, in fact our mission field. We wanna walk alongside each one of you as we all discover that our workplace is our ministry place and is in fact a mission field full of lost and hopeless people who desperately need to meet Jesus.

The people that you work with aren't likely to ever darken a church's doorsteps, but they are going to go to work, and so do you. Join us on the upcoming Marketplace Mission Trip and watch your workplace transform before your very eyes. Mike Henry joins us today to talk about taking our Marketplace Mission Trip, what it looks like, what it feels like, and he has brought a guest along too to share his story.

Mike Henry, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Mike Henry: Thanks for having me, Jim and Martha. I appreciate it.

Jim: What's a My Marketplace Mission Trip? Mike, what's it like?

Mike Henry: It's like work except that you use a few minutes every morning to set your mind toward Jesus and to let him direct you, and then you start to notice opportunities that he gives you in your workday to glorify him and to make other people give them an opportunity to see him. And so it's just this, it's this adventure that happens a little bit at a time.

Jim: Oh, it's an adventure. I like that.

Martha: It is an adventure, and it's one that we get to go to every day. And of course we're speaking generally, we understand not everybody works five days a week, nine to five.

I don't think there, nobody works nine to five anymore.

Jim: Only Dolly Parton got to work nine to five.

Martha: I think everybody understands this whole concept, and even those that are looking for work or unemployed or retired, or they choose to not, or they don't have to earn an income. We still all have a workplace, whether that is in our home or out in our community where we lead an organization.

Maybe you're HOA, for a lot of people, that's their workplace and it's an incredibly influential place to be, and so why not be intentional about it? So Mike, last week we talked on the show, we focused on preparing, this whole preparation process for the trip. Can you give us just a little summary of what it looks like for us to prepare for a Marketplace Mission Trip?

Mike Henry: Certainly. So the first week of the mission trip is five of these devotionals, talking about the five daily habits: pray, appreciate others, know what you believe, serve others, and speak for yourself. We call that preparation week 'cause we just wanna remind ourselves that those are five things that we can do in any job, any day, any time.

That put us back on mission with Jesus, regardless of what just happened in the moments before. And so that first week we go through that, those five activities, those five habits, and we get to know one another on the trip. And then in the middle point in the trip, everything shifts toward what we call action week.

Jim: It was really fun. A couple years ago, Martha and I went on our first Marketplace Mission Trip to check it out and then, COVID hit and all kinds of things got in our way and we have said, let's do another joint one and bring in the iWork4Him nation, everybody that's listening to the show and have them go on and experience it with us and we're super excited to do that with everybody.

And make sure you know that you can go to Marketplacemissiontrip.com and get signed up for the November 5th trip. Martha and I'll be there with you in the whole two week process as we're going through, really purposefully equipping ourselves to vibrantly live out our faith at work. Mike, up to today, when we met you in 2016, this was a baby you hadn't even birthed yet.

Now we're in 2023. How many people have gone on marketplace missions trips?

Mike Henry: So in the two week structured mission trips, about 800. We've also had a couple of large numbers of small groups go through it together. The different small groups do, some of 'em do the six-week format. Others have done the two-week format.

And so we don't really have good numbers on those. Probably closer to 200 people have done it through that, and we've even had three or four churches do this, where we're now packaging the two-Week court trip and the six-week trip so that churches can do it together.

Martha: And I know you're gonna talk a little bit more about that format a little bit later in the show when we bring on our guests, but no matter what format people participate in this Marketplace Mission Trip officially, we hope that they continue on a mission trip every day as they commute.

In your story you talk about I drive, I was driving 30 miles to get to work. That's like driving to my mission field every day. That mission trip. For some people their trip can be stressful because they have a hard commute or can be down the hallway, but no matter what it is and how they participate, they each have a story to tell. So can you tell us a story of somebody that participated in an impact that they saw happen in their workplace?

Mike Henry: Certainly. We've, one of our fun stories is of a teacher who found us and another online ministry at about the same time. Came back to church after several years of having been away. Took the Marketplace Mission Trip, read a book and all of this kind of came together at the same time. She now leads like a Bible study of all these teachers in her school system.

There's 17 or 18 teachers that are in this regular Bible study. It took place over the course of two or three years. But it all began with her doing a Marketplace Mission Trip and praying for the other teachers at her school. We have other stories of people who have just changed the behavior, their own behavior just a little bit, and noticed differences in relationships with people at work.

Seen really extreme situations turn into positive experiences because they didn't act on, they didn't struggle back, but instead they were giving and generous. Lots of stories like that we get. Oftentimes it's how the person who's on the trip is different as a result of being on the trip, and then they see God move.

Jim: I love that and you are gonna have an opportunity to see God move in your workplace as well. Martha, how can people get signed up for our, iWork4Him Marketplace Mission Trip coming up on November 5th? And does it cost anything?

Martha: So a couple of details 'cause I like the details. We'll have 'em all in the show notes too for people. It's not like you need to find pen and paper to write all this down right now. It will be in the show notes. So Marketplace Mission Trip.com is the website that you'll go to to get connected and to start that journey.

Getting signed up specifically for our trip that is starting on November 5th. And then there's a whole system in place to engage you and get you connected with the content that comes out every day. And the phone calls that we'll have. Mike, I was thinking about you. We were asking you about stories.

You get the opportunity on this mission trip to actually be on Zoom calls with the other people that are participating with you, and we get such energy from hearing what God is doing in people's workplaces. I remember one of the ones that we were on, somebody took doughnuts to work and it was like this huge gift that because nobody had ever done that or it just made such an impact and they were just loving on their people and it was like, just that encouragement is so incredible.

No, it doesn't cost anything. Yes, I am sure it costs to have it put together and there will be opportunities for you to give towards that as you would for any mission trip, but it is not required.

But we will encourage it. And one of the cool things is how often do we get to go on a trip where we don't have to pack a suitcase, we don't have to raise funds, we don't have to get a passport? We already have permission to go to that place. We speak the language. We don't have to take time off of work. No vacation time required.

So many more details that are no longer a part of the equation so that we, because we're already trained for our jobs, we know the people, we already know the schedule. All we have to do is prepare our hearts and our minds for this opportunity.

Sign up at MarketplaceMissionTrip.com, put it on your calendar and join us. It will be amazing to walk this journey with you. We look forward to it, and I know you will too, and your life will never be the same.

Jim: Mike, during the two weeks of the Marketplace Mission Trip, when we put into practice what we learned during Prep week, which we talked about in last week's podcast, what can we expect to experience?

Mike Henry: We get a little bit of pushback. We start noticing things. Some things get a little harder at work. Some things become a little more difficult because we have an enemy, but we also get this anticipation 'cause we know that God's engaged. We're paying attention to God, who's working in the lives of every person that we meet.

And we get to see him working in their lives. And we may see it in the way that a comment is received, how you said something that didn't seem like anything, and yet it was very important to the person that you said it to. Or you'll find ways to be a benefit to other people. You'll get an idea about giving something away like a treat or buying a lunch or helping someone. All that, those ways are ways that God shows up. I think he wants us to love the people around us and serve them because we follow him and then he makes the rest of it work.

Martha: So how is it that like Follower of One is supporting us through the week? What does that look like?

Mike Henry: So Follower of One. Our team actually, we pray and we encourage everyone on the trip to pray. The mission trip itself is a space inside of our online community, so it's like a private room in there, and the people in there can see who else is in that community. So you can pray for the other people on the trip, and I pray down the member lists of each trip while they're going on.

We also support by having these daily lessons that come out. We want to interact with one another and help people to process this idea and listen to how God calls them to do things. I've heard many ideas, different ideas of ways to serve people in our workplaces or wherever we are, and those ideas came from people who took the trip.

They didn't come from me, so I'm sharing ideas that often got from someone else.

Jim: That's flattery you because you're repeating what they did. You're like those people should feel great about it . So what, each day of the week, is there a specific focus or do we take everything we learned during prep week and apply it every day of the mission trip week?

Mike Henry: So the second week of the trip, the devotionals are more action oriented. So the first week are about the five daily activities or habits. The second week we challenge you, the topics are: make time, listen, deliver excellent work and remember your why. And these are practical ideas about how we can be very intentional when we go into our workplace or wherever we go.

Even we go to the grocery store, we're going to somebody else's workplace. But when we're out about even the message about going, talks about as you go, it's wherever we are. So we just find ways to be intentional about our faith in everything that we do.

Jim: I love that you just brought up the as you go thing.

A lot of us think Matthew 28:19 talks about going and that, some are called to go and some are called to stay. And it's not true. That go, I was just doing the research with my buddy, good buddy, Charlie Self and he goes, Jim, it means as you're going or as you go in all your goings, wherever you go. As you've gone. It, it's this act. It's no matter where you go, yes, this is what we're supposed to do.

We're supposed to share the gospel. We're supposed to live it up in front of people and we say this on so many shows, but as a Jesus follower, everything about us should be changing. That's that whole sanctification process. When Jesus enters into our lives, holy Spirit comes into us. Everything about us should be changing, and then everyone around us should be benefiting from our faith, whether they believe in Jesus or not. And that's really the epitome of the Marketplace Mission Trip experience.

Things are changing in me and everybody around me should be benefiting from that. Have you ever had anybody drop out of the trip because it was just too plain and simple hard?

Mike Henry: Yeah. We have, we do. We have people who disappear. Some people won't ever get very engaged. It's easy to sign up and you think it's easy to do a five-minute devotional.

After the enemy and the world attacks us, our to-do list blows up. We've had several people go through kind of major events during the mission trip, reorganizations in their business. We've had members who've had family members pass away during the trip, and so sometimes people drop out. But what we try and remind everybody is the first prayer we talk about is, here I am.

Here I am. Jesus. What do you want me to do today? Even if you get sidetracked for a week and a half, the next time you think about it, if you say, here I am, Jesus, what do you want me to do next? You're back on the trip.

Martha: Such a great point. And having lived on the mission field overseas with my family for a year, life continues to happen.

Things happen that you have to respond to and that you have to adjust to, but in the midst of it, we're still on mission. So that may look really not like you expected it to look at the beginning of the week or the beginning, when you first sign up. But that's the whole point, right?

That as we go, what are we doing to represent Jesus Christ in our crisis? How are we responding? Because that is really when Jesus is reflected the most. And so on the flip side of that I can imagine you have had people that have been repeat attendees. Tell us about that.

Mike Henry: Yeah. We have several people who we even have for many of our trips.

We'll do two calls a night because of different time zones and things like that. We still have some members who try and make 'em all, try and make all the calls 'cause they want to hear all the stories. We have several members who have taken multiple trips. We have a number of people who do one a year or one every six months.

Just try and remain sharp. It's a good reminder that we can keep doing this. And people, the ones who do it all the time, like they remember, they know what the next episode's gonna be about, what the next devotional will be talking about, and they're anticipating it. But it helps us remember that we have a calling, that my dream for everything that we do is that people look at it and go, oh, I can do that.

The next thing always should be something that we can do. Jesus wouldn't give us things that we can't do except to teach us lessons. Most of the time he's giving us things that we can do, and so let's look for those and do those.

Jim: Yeah, it was so much fun and I'm so excited that everybody here in our listening audience is invited to go on this trip with us.

Martha, we got to meet so many great people last time and I'm excited to meet a bunch of new people.

Martha: So the last time that we went, I think one of the biggest impacts for me was again, just that being in community with others that are taking this journey, this step of faith together and hearing how God is working in their lives, sometimes successfully, and sometimes feeling like they're hitting a wall.

And then the other people can come around 'em and encourage 'em and say, don't give up just because nobody ate the donuts. Or, that people sometimes don't respond the way you expect them to and saying, okay, Lord. Help me to redirect, help me to do it better.

This is not the first time that Mike Henry and the Follower of One have partnered with iWork4Him on anything. And one of the things I wanna celebrate, Mike, is the fact that in chapter 14 of our book, iWork4Him, you and your daughter, Jessica, wrote the chapter and our listeners can connect to that book, find it in the audio format, the paper format, the E-format, the PDF format, all of that on our Facebook, or I'm sorry, on our iWork4Him.com/bookstore. So I just wanna encourage you to go there to learn more and hear their story at iWorkForHim.com.

Jim: Mike, it's always fun to hear people's stories from themselves. Who do you have for us today?

Mike Henry: So today our guest is Daniel Dolan. He is the weightlifting coach at the public school system here locally. And Daniel tell everybody Hi.

Daniel Dolan: Hi.

Jim: What if he didn't want to, Mike?

Martha: He's a teacher, so he has to do whatever. He doesn't get a choice.

Jim: Okay, Daniel, thank you so much for joining us today. You didn't go on a two-Week Marketplace Mission Trip in the sense that you joined a group online. You did the Marketplace Mission Trip using the six weeks guide with a bunch of others. That correct? That's what you did?

Daniel Dolan: Yes. Yes.

Martha: So what made you choose that approach? How did that work for you?

Daniel Dolan: One of the men in my men's group, that we meet on Sunday mornings at a basketball gym or we were, and one of the men in my men's group knew Mike real well, and he suggested, Hey, Mike's got this great thing. I didn't even know what it was. And I had just recently really discovered my faith. I heard a message about how really we are like secret agents within our building. Once you become an ambassador, you actually become a secret agent working for Christ. Not just for your job, but you're actually, it makes the job a lot more exciting.

So that was how I was living in my job before I started this Marketplace Mission Trip. And then when I got explained like what the whole point of the Marketplace Mission Trip was, I was like, oh, this is exactly, this will just strengthen what I was already implementing and give me a better idea of how to be a secret agent for Christ in my building, in my workplace.

And then I didn't even ask the guys in my group if they wanted to do it. I just said, Hey, we're doing this.

Martha: I like that approach.

Jim: That's good. So tell us about the six week trip. What are each of the weeks for? How's it broken out? Because in the two week trip, your first week is prep. The second week is action.

Those five steps: go, make time, listen, operate with excellence, and remember your why. But what are the six weeks of those broken out?

Daniel Dolan: So the six week is that prep week, that first week. You talk about how it's gonna look, what it's gonna look like, and you just tell everybody what to expect.

The second week is pray. The third week would be appreciate others. The fourth week would be know what you believe. The fifth week is serve others. And the sixth week is speak for yourself. But each week just kinda builds upon each other because you, you start off with prayer, but you continue to pray as you go into appreciate others, and then you continue to appreciate others and pray as you go into know what you believe.

And it just, you just take those habits and those things that you've learned in previous weeks and still apply those into weeks three, four, and five and six.

Martha: So you had this group of guys that you were a part of, and you all went through this journey together. What would you say, as you've all shared and responded with each other, was one of the biggest takeaways of going through the Marketplace Mission Trip?

Daniel Dolan: The word that was used by almost every person that finished, 'cause I think we started with about 15 and it dwindled down to about 10 when it was all said and done, but the 10 of us concluded it's without a doubt intentionality. It teaches you to be intentional with the God-given gift that is us in that workplace.

And, just taking what God has called you to and applying it into your workplace. That's the whole, that's the whole fun of the gospel like that. I don't wanna get in my background, but growing up, I thought being a Christian was just this boring thing.

But when you are intentional with the Holy Spirit of living in you and you go out and you get to share this good news - I heard a quote the other day and it just summed up being a Christian for me. It says all being a Christian is is one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread.

And we're hungry for Jesus, and we want other people to be able to have that same, those same hungers met by him.

Jim: I don't know if it's the bread thing. I'm thinking it's one beggar. Tell another beggar how to find the prime rib.

Martha: It depends on your level of hunger.

Jim: You're a weightlifting coach. You teach weightlifting at high school. High school age ninth through 12th grade. How has this impacted your work? How has it changed how you operate as a teacher? Which by the way, thank you. And thank you to all of the public school teachers and any school teachers that are out there. We know your job is hard and we appreciate you guys being in the trenches. How has it impacted what you do on a day-to-Day basis? What specifically, what one thing shifted?

Daniel Dolan: There is no wasted conversations. There's something just, it's taught me to look the kid, the student in the eye, to really listen to what they're saying, to truly ask questions and get to know them.

So there's no, there's just no wasted conversations throughout my day, even if I'm busy. That's the appreciating others part. That's the one that really stood out to me over the Marketplace Mission Trip was appreciating others. Taking the time to listen and hear actually what they're saying, not just think about what I'm trying to say next.

But listen to what they're saying and then ask follow up questions to what they just told me, and then eventually, those conversations turn deeper and deeper. And then, you're able to really witness to the kids just to ask them a deeper question.

And so what's your thoughts on Jesus? Or where do you go to church? Or, what's your faith? And just open up the door to some more spiritual questions. Once they get to know your heart, they can see your heart is different than a lot of people. And then you can really ask them some deeper questions and they'll open up and then the doorway is open at that point.

Martha: Anybody that's listening right now is probably amazed at how blessed your students are to have you guiding them, and praying for that to be contagious around the country because that heart is exactly what is needed and what this mission trip can help each one of us do in our sphere of influence.

Looking at where your sphere of influence is and how God is. Giving you a new intentionality and we just pray that catches fire. But we're grateful for you sharing that with us, Daniel. And that's exactly why we are offering this Jim, right?

Jim: Yeah, absolutely. And we really encourage, please go to Marketplace Mission Trip. Dot com, sign up for the November 5th trip as iWork4Him and Follower of One join forces once again to do a trip together. And you will be doing this trip with Martha and I. Please come and get to know us. We will have way more fun than's probably legal and it won't be illegal, but it really, maybe one day it will be, but for this trip, it's not illegal.

But we'll have a great time sharing from our hearts, sharing from what we're doing and we will all be challenged. Marketplace Mission Trip. Dot com.

Martha: It's in the show notes. Don't worry. It's there. We got you covered, Jim.

Jim: We're gonna be highlighting this over the next several weeks in our weekly blogs and our weekly emails to get everybody involved. Make sure you sign up for our weekly blog. iWork4Him.com/blog, Mike Henry, Daniel Dolan, thanks for being with us today.

Thanks for sharing from your hearts. Mike, thanks for bringing this incredible tool to our audience and to the thousands and really millions of workplace believers across the country. Thank you for doing this, Daniel. Thank you for being a teacher. Don't give up. Thank you. Encourage these kids to get into public school teaching who know Jesus and tell 'em not to give up. You are on the front lines and we're grateful. Thank you to both of you

You're listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha. Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

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Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest.

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