9/20/23 - 2008: No Suitcase? No Fundraising? No Problem!

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? We're gonna find out right now.

Jim: It's common practice to spend almost a year preparing for a one week long short-term mission trip.

We spend time preparing to raise money, pack the right clothing, learn the culture, and be prepared for our ministry work while we're there, wherever there is. It's amazing that we spend all that time to prepare for one week of our year. Yet for the other fifty-one weeks of the year, we spend little or no time preparing our hearts for our workplace mission field.

Today we are announcing that iWork4Him is going on a Marketplace Mission Trip the first week in November. We invite you to join us on this trip. This week on iiWork4Him we're gonna talk about preparing our heart, mind, soul, and strength for going on a Marketplace Mission Trip to your own workplace- your ministry place, your mission field.

Mike Henry is with us today from Followerofone.org, and he's gonna explain how we prepare our hearts for going to work. Mike Henry, thanks for being back on iWork4Him.

Mike Henry: Hey, thanks for having me. Great to be here.

Jim: It's great to have you here, Mike. Why a marketplace missions trip? What's the backstory behind Follower of One?

Mike Henry: I never could figure out why driving to work wasn't a mission trip. Why is it going to somewhere else a mission trip but going to the places where I go not a mission trip? Why did I have to go someplace different? And they came out of a conversation with a pastor years ago where they were trying to talk me into going on an overseas mission trip and I couldn't get away from work.

And I said, but I drive 30 miles a day to work. How is that not a mission trip? And the story just stuck.

Martha: It stuck. It stuck there for a while, didn't it, Mike?

Mike Henry: It did. It took us 12 or 13 years to actually turn it into something.

Martha: But I love the way that you wrestled with that question. I just, I love your heart and you just have such a passion for communicating this process to other people, but we know firsthand that you wrestled with it in your own life. So did you like test that out? Did you say, okay, I'm gonna go on my own little mission trip to work? Or what happened next?

Mike Henry: I actually was just complaining about this to a friend maybe a dozen years after that conversation. And the young friend said, why don't you do a virtual mission trip? My mind started working it. I kicked into gear. What would it take to actually challenge us to go to our workplaces and do this instead of just me whining about it?

And that's where we started out by using a book, but now we've evolved into this kind of using devotional so people don't even have to pay to do this. It's just designed to get us to thinking about going to work and establishing relationships with the people that we work with, such that we might be able to serve them and point them to Jesus.

Jim: A lot of missionaries, I've had arguments with missionaries, overseas missionaries that say, your workplace isn't a mission field. And I say, really? The perspective is, to me, a mission field is a place where you go, where there are people who are lost and hopeless, people that don't know Jesus. That describes every workplace that I've ever been in, and there's always been people like that.

But it's that mentality that you go with as well, and that's part of the paradigm shift of being able to say iWork4Him. You have to be able to recognize that your workplace really is a mission field, a place of ministry, and that you're called to that no matter what your calling may be, whether you're an insurance agent, used car sales guy, a lineman, a manufacturer, or whatever it may be.

Mike, have you ever gone on a short-term missions trip overseas?

Mike Henry: Not overseas. I did some prison ministry back in when I first became a Christian, but I've never gone overseas on a mission trip.

Jim: Was that the time when you had stole that car and there was a felony that he had to serve time in prison or what was it?

 (laughter)

Mike Henry: No, they let leave.

Jim: Why do you think we spend so much time at church preparing to go overseas on a short-term mission trip? A one-week trip. Almost zero time preparing for our workplace mission field. What's, what do you think is the disconnect there?

Mike Henry: The need is great overseas. I don't wanna make light of that need. I don't wanna make light of the people who are called to do that service. But I think what we've done is we've focused on the exception instead of the rule, and we tend to do that.

If you look what's on tv, it's the exception. It's not the rule. What do we talk about? What's on the news? It's always the exceptions and not the rule. Sending people to foreign countries so they can invest in people who don't speak the same language and who don't have the same advantages that we have, that's the exception. That's what we've been called to do. That's exceptional.

However, day in and day out, the person that I work next to, they may even be a believer, but I can still minister to them by helping them. We in Follower of One, we define ministry as helping people move one notch closer to Jesus. Then I don't even have to discriminate against the people that I work with who are believers or not believers. Whoever Jesus brings across my path is someone I can help move closer to Him.

Jim: You bring up a such a good point. And this week on all of our power thoughts, which are heard across the country, and people can subscribe on to our power thoughts on Apple Podcasts, each one of those power thoughts talks about that preparing for going our missions our marketplace missions trip, excuse me, mission trip.

I keep putting the s on there. Martha thinks that's terrible. But what's amazing is that, when we go overseas, we don't know the culture. We don't know the language. We really don't, we don't know the food.

When we go to work, we know the language, we know all the acronyms, we know the people, we know the language, and it, that part is already behind us. All we have to do is let our faith live out vibrantly in us and with intentionality, and that's really what the missions trip is all about, is helping prepare us.

And we're gonna go into more detail in a minute. Martha, you wanna?

Martha: You use a really pivotal and important word, and that is preparing us. And there are so many things every day that we can do to prepare our hearts for the mission field that God has us in. And one of those ways is prayer. And I just wanna highlight that we have at iWork4Him a prayer team, and that prayer team joins together to pray specifically for the work that iWork4Him is doing.

But ultimately that's for everyone because we are an audio, we are a video impression that helps people to live out their faith and work every day, right? And so I just wanna invite people right now to join that prayer team because it is a foundational part of preparing every day for what we are doing as individuals and as an organization. Listeners, you can just go to iWork4Him.com and find the prayer team and join it. And we would love for you to participate in that part of the preparation in our life.

Mike, let's fast forward just a little bit to now and where God has you. What does it mean for someone to go on a Marketplace Mission Trip?

Mike Henry: It's a two-week commitment to be very intentional with your faith, asking Jesus to use you every day in the lives of the people that you work with. Realizing another difference to overseas mission trips is we have to maintain our relationships because we're coming back again tomorrow. And so we're doing this in a relationship context.

It's not like we're flying in and we can do whatever and we're leaving in a week. We have to maintain our relationships, we have to still be valuable employees. And it's these, we practice these five daily activities that we've come up with five daily habits and we learn about those in the first week that's preparation for this. And then the second week is we put those actions into action. We put those, we make those things happen. And God shows up. He does all kinds of cool things in the lives of the people who have done this.

Jim: So talk about how do we prepare our hearts, minds, souls, and strength for this two-week exercise, which we'd like to become second nature.

Mike Henry: So we start with prayer like Martha was talking about. Our five daily habits are pray, appreciate others, know what you believe, serve others, and speak for yourself. And each day of the first week is a devotional and a video that walks you through those five points. And we start praying for the people that we work with and start asking God to use us in their lives. And then look what we see is things start happening.

Jim: All right, those five things. Pray. Appreciate others, and I got the last one. Speak for yourself. What were the middle two?

Mike Henry: Know what you believe is the third one, and the fourth one is serve others, and the fifth is speak for yourself.

Martha: So it's really this training ground, much like when you're training or preparing to go somewhere else to serve. It's that training ground of figuring out how to be ready every day for the mission field. And that's why this resonates everybody. If you've listened to us for any amount of time, you know that we are passionate about where you go to work every day and that it matters.

We hear organizations that talk about business as mission and truly, we are business as mission every day. We are going in as a carpenter, we are going in as an accountant, whatever that job might be, and doing it as a missionary for Jesus Christ. And so we love that connection.

And Mike, I would just love to hear what is your favorite part about hosting a Marketplace Mission Trip?

Mike Henry: I love the stories that people tell. It's exciting when, especially when someone, when it starts to click for them, because for many of us, this is a little awkward. I'm getting on a Zoom call with people I don't know.

And I'm praying about my faith, and it's typically the Zoom check in calls are in the evenings and it's uncomfortable, but when someone actually gets to see God working in their workplace or they see God changing them, they get excited, they jump on the next call and they can't wait to tell people about it.

And those kinds of things are fun. Because you get to see people who realize, oh, Jesus is involved in the people that I work with. He's involved in their lives and He is using me, and it's exciting.

Jim: I wanna make sure everybody knows stay tuned because in just a little bit Martha and I can tell you how to get involved in a Marketplace Mission Trip that we're gonna do in conjunction with Follower of One - iWork4Him, Follower of One. We do a lot of collaboration out there in the marketplace. We wanted to do a trip where we invite our audience to join us with Mike on a Marketplace Mission Trip. Mike, what's the hardest part of preparing for a Marketplace Mission Trip? When do you hear people say this is hard?

Mike Henry: Almost the most surprisingly difficult piece is the fact that our normal life just takes us out. The day in, day out of our busyness, our email, our pressures at work, our to-do list. It makes it really hard for us to be intentional about shoving more of our faith into what we do every day. It's like we've found this level of faith activeness that we do and trying to increase that level is harder than most of us think because the environment that we work in is generally not very conducive to being a person of faith.

Jim: But I think that's because people think they, they make it more complicated than what it really needs to be. We can be a people of faith doing whatever we do - as an insurance agent, selling cars. Jesus inside of us is changing who we are. And as Jesus followers, everything about us is changing and everyone around us should be benefiting from our faith as we wrestle it out, whether they believe in Jesus or not. And I think we make it too complicated. We think I've gotta know the gospel, and I gotta have all the books of the Bible memorized, and I have to have lots of scripture memorized.

No, you just need to be working out your faith and living it for real. And people can, they will learn from you. They glean it from you, and then you'll have opportunities when you notice that they're struggling to actually feed into them. I love that.

Mike, when I was messing around on your website the other day, I noticed you have a free download on your website that maps all of this out. What was that download called again? It was like a six week trip. No, it had the two weeks. The two weeks. What can we get on the website, just so we can see what this looks like?

Mike Henry: There might be a PDF on there where you can get an outline of the Marketplace Mission Trip, the two week version. The six week version of the mission trip is a new workbook that we started publishing just a few months ago.

And so people can do this in an offline fashion over six weeks. It's a little more in-depth study of each of the daily habits. Jim, you're exactly correct. The first prayer we talk about is here I am. We talk about that being like punching in. Here I am, Jesus. What do you want me to do next?

And after that, everything becomes Jesus's problem and He puts us back to work even if we've dropped the ball. And so that's the one of the ways that we battle this overwhelm that attracts or that draws to some people where they feel like they just can't do this or they're not equipped to do it in their workplace.

Martha: So let's compare that just for a minute to taking a short-term mission trip overseas, because a lot of people would say, this is just too hard. Why would I do it? The whole thing is once you do it, once you make that commitment and you prepare and you practice it through the actual attending of it, your life is never the same.

And then you see, wow, this is why people do it. This is why you have to have stick-to-it-iveness, because it might seem scary. Satan might distract us, but at the same time, we then see on the other side of it, I wanna do this again. And I know you've said over the years that there have been multiple people that have participated in more than one mission trip for that very reason.

Because we are people that need accountability. We are people that need to learn things over and over again. And experiencing them in community is the most powerful way we can do that. And so that's why we at iWork4Him have decided to host a trip and to do it with our community and anyone else who wants to join us, but to do it together, to have that synergy of, okay, I'm going to work alone.

I'm not going with all of you to work tomorrow, but I know you're in agreement with me about what we're doing today. That we're gonna work intentionally for Jesus in all that we do. You can tell I'm a little excited, but I love seeing that, just a little, that analogy, that parallel. So tell

us more, Jim.

Jim: I think what's exciting is that November 5th we're going to go on a joint Marketplace Mission Trip between iWork4Him and Follower of One. We're going to join forces and we'll probably even share between what Mike teaches on a Marketplace Missions trip and the iWork4Him Nation, and you'll see how God brought both of those together in a synergistic fashion when we didn't even know each other.

But we need you to go out to marketplacemissiontrip.com, Marketplace Mission Trip . com , and sign up for the November 5th trip. The automation will kick in from then, and that's the week we will start off with preparing our hearts. And then the week of November 12th, we'll actually go on our trip, but we'll spend a couple of weeks getting to know each other.

This is a chance for all of you out there listening to get to know Jim and Martha and Mike Henry too, because he's really the star of the show because God's led him down this road. But we thought it'd be fun to kinda walk with all of you listening on a trip as we intentionally prepare for our faith to live up vibrantly in us as we go about our work.

Marketplacemissiontrip.com, sign up for the November 5th trip.

Martha: So Mike, you have over the last several years had hundreds, if not thousands of people that have gone on a Follower of One Marketplace Mission Trip. So who do you have with us today that's gonna share a little bit about their experience?

Mike Henry: We have Jane Doerman from White Oak Christian Church, and she's also with the, oh, I can't remember the name of the ministry. The Boldly Conference.

Jim: Polished Network, yeah.

Mike Henry: Polished network. Thank you. I drew a blank. I had one line and I blew it.

 (laughter)

Mike Henry: Hey, Jane, how are you?

Jane Doerman: I'm doing great, Mike. You're doing awesome.

Jim: We gotta help him out. Polishednetwork.com. Oh,

Jane Doerman: it's Polishnetwork.org. Polishnetwork.org. Yes.

Jim: We're both in the doghouse, Mike. Thanks for helping me out on that one, Jane. We're so grateful to have you. And we do love Polished and their Boldly conference. And we love Follower of One, even if we screwed up all the websites, it's okay. PolishedNetwork.org.

Martha: It'll all be in the show notes. So just take that burden off of you and everybody can look at it in the show notes.

Jim: All right. Jane, what attracts you to go on a Marketplace Mission Trip?

Jane Doerman: I gotta say about a year ago is when Mike and I first met at the AWOP, XL Summit here in Cincinnati.

Jim: That was At Work on Purpose with Chuck Proudfit.

Jane Doerman: That's right, at Work on Purpose. And it was my first event ever to attend with them, and I was sitting there in the audience and Mike was on stage talking about this idea of a virtual mission trip, and my ears perked up and I was really excited 'cause Mike was speaking my language.

I totally get this idea of I'm on mission every day, whether it's in the workplace, whether it's in my house. Whether it is down the street at Target, going shopping, I'm on mission every single day. And I loved the heart behind it 'cause it felt like, oh my goodness, somebody else gets it. So we met at the, at work on Purpose summit.

We met on Zoom like a week later and we talked about okay, tell me more. I really wanna try this. And he invited me to sign up for the next mission trip, which was like a month later. And so the rest was history. I was super excited to participate.

Martha: So what did you experience in that preparation time that you could give us a little peek behind the curtain?

Jane Doerman: Sure. I will say my experience with the preparation for it... Looking on paper, when you look at what is required of you to participate or you know how to do it, I was a little intimidated 'cause I'm like, oh goodness, this feels like a lot. Like I have a devotion to do every single day.

And then the next week I have a phone call or a Zoom call every single night with it. Can I do that? And I just felt the Holy Spirit really stirring within me to say, I've made this connection with you and Mike for a reason, and I want you to be obedient with stewarding your time with this.

And you know what? Really just setting up your account and seeing the Follower of One community online and connecting, starting to connect with people I'd never met before, it was like this, like whole new world online and just realizing that you're not alone in this and when you actually choose to show up and you like put it in your planner. This is the time I'm going to show up, do the devotional, which took like less than five minutes to do.

And then, that really set the tone for every single day going into it, of creating this heightened awareness of who was in my circle or spheres of influence. Who am I in contact with on a regular basis that maybe I don't even notice on the regular? And God was like, I made them and you're a mission to love them because I love you.

So it was it was a really cool experience and it really just opened up this world to connect with other people that I would never connect with on a regular basis.

Jim: So what was the biggest surprise for you when you went on the trip? Who was the biggest surprise? The person that was in your regular schedule that you never really noticed before? Or that may be harsh, but somebody like the Lord goes, see this? This is one of the people I was talking to you about. Who was it?

Jane Doerman: I gotta tell you, when the first mission trip I went on, it was like in September. So it was around like school had been starting and school life has just been crazy since covid.

Okay. And so they decided our church, or not church, our school staff decided to do a different format of drop-off and pickup line. I don't know if you've ever experienced a drop-off or school pickup line, but it is terrible. Sometimes you're just sitting there for an hour. Bring a snack, hang out.

Jim: I would suggest listening to the iWork4Him podcast while you're there.

Jane Doerman: There you go. That might be better.

Jim: That's right. And the Follower of One podcast. Go to Apple podcast and get subscribed to both of them so you've got something to listen to in the school pickup line.

Jane Doerman: Yes, absolutely. I love that.

Jim: Oh, wait a minute. How about the Polish podcast? 'cause you're gonna be in charge of the Polish podcast.

Jane Doerman: There we go. Yes. We got it all covered. I love that. Yes. Podcasts are essential in the school pickup line. So I was sitting there and it was very, tensions were really high. Things were not going well.

The first couple weeks, and especially in the preparation week, it was awful. Parents were getting out of their cars and yelling at the staff and it was just really not great. I'm sitting there in my car like, I'm frustrated, but come on. And I felt God say, on one of the days, I want you to encourage one of the staff members when you get outta your car.

And I was like okay. That feels weird, but I'll do it. And so when it came to be my time to get outta my car to greet my kids, the assistant principal was there and we were making small talk. And I just remember turning to her and I said. I know things have been really crazy the last like week and a half here, but I just want you to know I really appreciate how you care for our kids and how you are just trying, I know this is hard, but I just want you to know that I see you and I think you're doing a great job. So keep up the good work.

And it was just like the look on her face was like, oh my gosh. Like someone, it was that recognition that appreciating others piece that I think really, if you're not intentional about it, can get overlooked so easily.

Martha: For sure. Wow. How amazing. This is the key here. You were being encouraged to follow through on those prompts, right? And to see the opportunity that the Holy Spirit was giving you, and you were obedient to that.

Okay. So you took the trip, you came back and you then took some people from your church on a trip. Why would you do that?

Jane Doerman: Why would I do that? I serve on the teaching team at our church, and God has put me in a really unique situation where I am in the room with the leaders of our church who make decisions.

And every year we gather for a retreat and we determine the sermon series for the next year. And during that time, we like to have equipping pieces for our people along with the themes that we're gonna navigate. And our lead pastor shared his heart that he really wanted people to be observant in appreciating others.

We use this term "one another," "other people" and how can we do that? And I said, guys, I just did this really cool experience, Marketplace Mission Trip. It was really cool. It was virtual and it's accessible. It makes it accessible to everybody, because we really wanted to do the traditional mission trip, but those were limited in numbers for who could go and, there's all sorts of obstacles that people can navigate to go on a traditional mission trip. But then I said, but this would be a really cool tool for us to use for our people. And so Nathan fell in love with the idea and said, let's get Mike on a call. And the rest is history. We just completed like a couple weeks ago, our mission trip.

Jim: All right. So I wanna know how many people from your church went on the Marketplace Mission Trip with you?

Jane Doerman: We had about nine people.

Jim: So what was the one thing that you saw God do during that trip that just blew your mind? Yes. You have to choose one.

Jane Doerman: Yes. I know. I'm like one? At the top of mind, the first thing that comes to mind and I was like, yes, praise God - was these people like, and I was friends with most of 'em that registered and some were new to me, but these people who are leaders in our church realize for the first time, wow, my actions matter.

Like how I act and love towards others matter. And I don't have to get on a soapbox in the middle of my workplace and have an altar call. One guy said I wanted to flip the script 'cause this, we had clients in town that usually treat us, and celebrate us and appreciate us. And I'm gonna flip the script and I'm gonna appreciate them. And like just that intentionality and making time for people. And we had a woman who was a waitress at a local restaurant, and she shared how she was really, she recognized that some of the stressful parts of her day when, like the lunch rush came in, she was very mindful on how she approached people.

And she, was very intentional with how she interacted with her coworkers. And she just saw God building connections in that way because her actions were speaking so much louder than her words could.

Martha: So beautiful and so exciting to hear a group of people that you are intimately involved with or connected to through your church that now, on a whole different level and even the ability to help each other stay accountable to that mission. I've been to the Dominican with a bunch of women and like every time you see those women, it's like that's my connection point with them.

The same is true of the Marketplace Mission Trip. And Jim and I are very excited to go on another one and actually participate with the iWork4Him community with one for that very reason, because we were blown away by the relationships, Jim, that we built during those evening Zoom calls.

Following up, hearing the testimony, hearing what God was doing. Taking our ordinary days and making them extraordinary for the kingdom. We do learn from hearing other people's experiences and our actions do speak loudly for the gospel. So thanks for sharing that, and thank you for taking taking that step of faith and inviting your church along on the journey.

Jim: I got one more question for you. I just wanted to wait for Martha to get done.

All right, so you've taken 10 of you now have gone from your church on a Marketplace Mission Trip. Do you have another one planned? Did the pastor get to go? What's next?

Jane Doerman: What's next? I'm glad you asked. We actually just had our sermon series retreat for 2024 and one of the sermon series is very evangelism focused. And I said, guys, we were in the middle of the Marketplace Mission Trip during this time. I said, you guys, everything we are talking about that we want our people to do, we're doing it, like we are doing it in this mission trip. And so what's next is, I don't think I told Mike this, but in September I believe this particular sermon series is happening and we are going to be using that sermon series as a catalyst to say, sign up at the end of September, we're gonna be doing another mission trip.

And we have collected all the testimonies from every single person that went on this last one. I gotta tell you, these people are excited to do it again and they wanna bring more people with them. So I'm really excited.

Jim: Mike, it's gotta be fun to hear that. You're sitting there nodding your head and smiling and I just, I know that this has been a journey, but one of your dreams is to have Marketplace Mission Trips in churches around the country, because this is for the everyday worker. This is for the Rank-and-file people who don't see their workplace as a mission field, but to help them understand it and help shift that paradigm so that as believers, their faith can just vibrantly live out within them. Mike, it's so much fun and we're so excited to be partnering with you on our trip coming up on November 5th. Where can people go to get signed up, Mike, for our trip coming up in November 5th?

Mike Henry: Marketplacemissiontrip.com, it actually says, request an invitation and you'll get an email with a link that will take you right into our online community and into the special space that we have just for the mission trip. So you can get familiar with the resources and everything and get ready to go. Marketplacemissiontrip.com.

Martha: And we will have that link in our show notes as well. And you said another one of our favorite words, Mike, and that is resources. We love providing resources to our listeners. And this mission trip coming up is just one of those many examples.

So listeners, if you are not yet connected to us, in order to stay connected to the many different resources that we provide through iWork4Him, remember to find us on your favorite social media platform: Facebook, Instagram, X, I feel that's, so I'm not used to that yet. So YouTube, Spotify, and we're now even on Rumble.

So if you've been listening, you may not realize that we are on video format as well, so you're missing a lot of facial expressions, especially from Mike during our conversation. So you might wanna go back and watch the video version, but just look for us on iWork4Him and we'll have all those links in the show notes as well.

Jim: Mike Henry with FollowerOfOne.org and MarketplaceMissionTrip.com, thanks for being on iWork4Him today. And Jane Doerman with PolishedNetwork.org, thanks for being with us today, sharing your story, sharing how, really how your organization, how your own life, and how your organization's been impacted and how your church has been impacted. Thanks, Jane for being here today.

Jane Doerman: Thank you so much for having me.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com / bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him.com. I work the number four him.com.

9/13/23 - 2007: What Would God Say About Your Priorities?

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: There's an order to all things, especially how we order our days, but when the kids are crying, the vendors are calling, the laundry needs to be done, you need to fire someone, your car breaks down, and you have a church meeting to go to, that order just seems to go out the door.

But scripture's clear. When we put God first, everything else seems to fall into proper order. Today, we're talking about God's given priorities. Joining us are some longtime friends of iWork4Him, Taiwan and Dr. Sh'nai Simmons. Their story is one of determining those priorities and living them out day by day. Taiwan and Sh'nai, welcome back to iWork4Him. It's so good to have you.

Taiwan Simmons: Yes We're so excited. We're so excited to be back with you guys. Thanks for having us on the show again.

Martha: Oh you bet. And we're excited to for you guys to impart great conversation with our friends that are going to be listening in. So Sh'nai, let me start with you.

Jim: And I just want to add, if I just add it, the reason we're talking about priorities is you know, this is a show talking about the intersection of faith and work. And so often our priorities get out of whack and work takes the number one place and then everything around us start to crumble. And we've all worked around people that have lives like that, where work got out of place. Whether they're a business owner or business leader or just somebody that worked ridiculously hard as an entrepreneur and their family gets impacted negatively. And we just wanted to have a conversation with Taiwan and Sh'nai because they are feeding into married couples all the time just like Martha and I and we've seen the detrimental repercussions.

Ooh, two four syllable words (counting) in a row. We've seen the repercussions of people ignoring these priorities. And we just wanted to spend a week talking about priorities. All of our power thoughts are talking about priorities. Our blog is talking about priorities, and the show tonight's talking about priorities. Okay, now Martha, go ahead.

Martha: Alrighty. So with priorities in mind, let's start with the number one priority. Now, Sh'nai, how long have you and Taiwan been married?

Sh'nai Simmons: It's going to be 27 years in December.

Martha: Excellent.

Jim: How long did it take-, when did it start getting hard to keep your priorities straight? With kids and work, and did that ever, maybe you guys ever struggle with it? Did you guys ever struggle with getting your priorities straight?

Sh'nai Simmons: Oh, yes. That's a regular struggle. That's a regular struggle because priorities after you get from the first, first four levels God, your spouse, your kids church work, other things come in.

And I think for us it first became difficult with children in the beginning. We have been known to be overachievers and so when we had children, so we had our first son. We had him alone for about two months and then we became foster parents for three of my siblings. So in our first season of parenthood, we became parents of four very quickly. So priorities absolutely became a challenge immediately.

Jim: Taiwan, what did that conversation look like when you realized, Hey, I'm not getting enough time? I'm not getting enough Sh'nai time with these kids are interrupting my life. What did that conversation sound like?

Taiwan Simmons: Oh goodness. That's a question for the ages because at first you don't really know what to say and how to say it. We were so locked in at first. We were so focused on doing what we wanted to do. Like Sh'nai said, we're overachievers. So we wanted to run this business and then we wanted to make sure the kids were in private school. And then we wanted to make sure that everything was lined up a certain way.

So you just get really focused and Sh'nai calls it, what do you call it? When I get hyper? You get hyper vigilant and then you don't pay attention at first to the things that you're missing out on. So we didn't really have a whole bunch of conversations in the beginning about, Hey, I'm not spending time with you and you're not spending time with me. We were just going. And we were just going and we were just going. Until things started to break down and that's when you have to have the conversation.

Martha: Exactly, and I know that for you guys and for us our connection started with the conversation around marriage and really understanding how important it is to feed into our marriages. But like you said, first priority is God. So a lot of times we have the flesh pulling at us, the kids and the like you said, added kids.

You guys went all in with parenting at that stage and you're in the flesh trying to figure all that out and then where does your relationship with the Lord, fall into that when you have sleepless nights and you're juggling new expectations in life? So can you recall how you tried to prioritize the, all the priorities, not just trying to fit each other in there?

Taiwan Simmons: Yeah, I can take that. So I was always the faith guy when we got together. And it really was just me doing that when we got together. It was about just making a decision that we had to prioritize our faith. And that wasn't easy because when we first started off Dr. Sh'nai had some challenges with, scripture and belief, and we had to really have some really serious conversations. But what I learned was, is that it was more about my example and that I led in that area. And when we would have challenges, I would say we got to trust God. We got to believe God. And I believe after doing that for a period of time, it helped us to shift our priorities into being focused more on what God said first versus what our flesh was telling us to do.

Jim: Sh'nai, what was the inner struggle about? Did you grow up in a household where those priorities were demonstrated?

Sh'nai Simmons: We were new converts. I was pregnant with my first son and we were new converts. We were just learning who God was. I was just learning who God was. And so the struggle was, this is a completely new paradigm.

He's the head of the household and I'm supposed to put him before children. And there was no example of a man as a leader in our home. So it was really, what is this thing called Christianity? What does that mean? What does that look like? What does that mean for us? What does that mean for me as a parent? I had a model of being a mom and that model, the model that I built in my mind, was what I didn't want to be. But it wasn't a model of what to be.

And so we had to work that out, over the time as we grew in our faith and we grew as a couple. We knew we didn't want to recreate what we were raised in. So we kept seeking examples that didn't look like what we were raised in.

Taiwan Simmons: And I want to tell you, you gotta understand. I didn't have it all figured out either. When I was a kid, I was raised by my great grandparents who were Jehovah witnesses. My dad was a Muslim. My mom was Catholic or Baptist, depending on where she was mentally. And so this was my upbringing. Somebody say confusion, right?

So that was what I learned was faith and what was God, but it didn't make sense to me and I didn't recognize and identify God and all those things. So I brought all that into our relationship trying to figure all of that stuff out.

Jim: In your great grandparents household where you were being raised, did you see these biblical priorities being laid out?

Taiwan Simmons: No.

Jim: So let's talk about these priorities because I think it's, now you guys been down 27 years of marriage. We've been down 37 years of marriage. We figured this out the hard way. We've all made mistakes where we've put work way too high in the category. We've all made a mistake where we put kids too high in the category. And in the proper thing, and let's just, banter back and forth about this a little bit, but in my opinion, but I believe the scripture backs it up, but I can't find all the different scriptures to back it up but I, this just makes sense when you look at scripture.

God's got to be number one, our relationship with him is number one important relationship. It's why he saved us. It's why he created us. Then we get married and that relationship becomes our number two priority. Our marriage is a mess if we don't have God as number one priority. Our number two priority starts to hurt.

Then we have kids. That's what God wanted us to do. God wanted us to have children. He wanted us to be fruitful and multiply and absolutely have a good time doing it. And so we have kids, but kids when they're little, they tend to be a little demanding. Oh, yeah, no, the whole time. They're all about demanding. There always demanding.

Then God gives us work as a gift in the garden. He gave the work as a gift to Adam and Eve, as a gift for them to occupy their time when they're not busy with their spouse or their kids or with him. They have work to do and then we've got hobbies and volunteer work and all this other stuff. How what do you guys do?

I mean you've been married 27 years. You guys got this figured out. You'd never have any problems balancing this anymore.

 (laughter)

Taiwan Simmons: As we just said, Jim, it's a consistent struggle, and we always have to make sure that we realign and we have a lot of conversations. We're always communicating about what's next and what we should do and how we should do it and continuing to keep the alignment. Like I said earlier, me being the example, because it all starts with me and me having the ability to demonstrate to her that I'm in alignment, right?

Matthew 6: 33, seeks ye first the kingdom of God and all his righteousness and all those things shall be added unto you. So for me, it's being able to prioritize me and my vertical alignment. And I believe that she seeks him and she also follows me as I seek him. That's number one.

Martha: I love how transparent you were just a moment ago about your upbringing because there's, that's why we're having this conversation. There are so many, all of us can use more modeling of what it looks like to do this well. I don't think there is a person on earth you can talk to, any of the great, icons, the heroes of our faith, and even them more likely they will say, I've still struggled with keeping my priorities in the right area, in the right way.

And so that's why we have this conversation. But to say, yeah, I didn't have a good model. I want to do better. And when I fail and when life gets busy and something gets out of alignment that I reassess and I lead well. And so thank you, Taiwan, for saying that because we need to give ourselves that ability to realign. We were just talking, Jim, about that, the verses in our Sunday school class on Sunday, about how God's mercies are new every morning.

And isn't it a wonderful thing that they are? That we can turn that page and start over again the next day? Because there are times, I know for us, I was thinking back to when we wrote our three books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him , and iRetire4Him. In that season of writing and editing, you can guarantee that our priorities were heavy on a certain project.

Now, I don't believe there was neglect and it wasn't tipped upside down, but for a season, that was a huge priority, and it had a - you going to school, the things that you've done in life. They ebb and the flow. And talk to our listeners about what they might be experiencing right now and just give them a word of encouragement that you know, it's okay. It's about this realignment. Sh'nai, why don't you address that?

Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, I think it's important to go back to seeking first. Because it's easy to just see it in a very logical way, like God, spouse, children, work. But there is the opportunity for God to redirect you. If you're seeking God first, and something's out of balance in your life, it's God can very well say, I know the children are important, but if you don't take care of this at work, you're not going to be able to feed them.

He, when I was in school, someone came to me, a wonderful woman of God who was a pastor's wife and co pastor of her church, and she saw me struggling to do school and parent and go to work. And she ministered to me and she said, your husband is equally capable of taking care of the children, like he is not incapable. They can have amazing opportunities and experiences with him while you're on this assignment.

And so when you are properly aligned with God's instruction, not picking up stuff that you want to pick up, but doing what God has ordained you to do, he will tell you if you have to rewrite the order. He will tell you if you need to put 70 percent in the children right now and 30 percent at work.

Or if you need to put 80 percent in your husband and 10 percent in the church. He's gonna, he's gonna tell you because he knows that he ordains what it is that he wants you to do at a given time. And that's the beauty of trusting the scripture. All these things will be added because God can reroute you. You just have to trust it.

Martha: That reminds me of someone that I really respected in their office. They showed Jesus at the center. And so the real priority is having him at the center of everything we do. So it's not, there's not divisions. Yes, it's God as a priority, but it's because he's in the center of our relationship with our spouse. He's in the center of the life with our kids. He's in the center of the work that we're doing. And to me, that's the, that like narrow hitting the center of the target, it's like he's at the center, so no matter where my focus is at this moment, it's still him at the center helping me to make the decisions and do the work that he's called me to do.

What do you think of that, Jim?

Jim: I love that idea. And what's been interesting, if I think of the thing that's gotten in the way in our marriage the most, it's been work because we both love to work. Kids, we didn't have our lives centered on our kids, we only had two kids living at home, even though we have three kids, but we went through stages because of foster and adoption, but our work gotten away and keeping a balance on our work so that we didn't neglect our own marriage, especially because we got empty nesters at such an early age.

Like it was easy to work all the time because nobody else was demanding our time, but I think it goes back to, we're also setting an example. You're setting an example for your kids. We're setting an example for our kids and we're setting an example for the neighbors kids. And the neighbor's marriages and the marriages at church, they're all looking at us going, okay Taiwan and Sh'nai and Jim and Martha, they're ministry leaders.

What's their marriage look like? How's that look? Because people are watching because just like you guys didn't grow up with a marriage to emulate, there's a lot of people out there, all kinds of people, 50 plus percent of them didn't grow up with a marriage to look at and go, that's what it looks like to have a Christian marriage.

There's a lot of people that didn't grow up with that. So I, It's just a great conversation. Sh'nai, Taiwan is talking about how he's keeping his relationship with the Lord number one, keep an eye on the Lord. But what does it look like for you as a mom, as a psychologist, as a, you're a writer, you're a speaker, you're doing a lot of things.

What does it look like in your life to keep God your life's first priority?

Sh'nai Simmons: It's a struggle. It's a struggle. It's a struggle. I'm one point of correction. I'm a therapist, mental health therapist. I don't want to misrepresent, but yes, I am a healthcare practitioner and it is a struggle. I have to fight for that.

I was not, as I said, growing up, that wasn't a natural part of my life and being a worker was. Being responsible was. Being parentified and taking care of other people, all of that was very much a natural part of my life. So I have to endeavor to be disciplined in one way, shape, form or fashion to keep God first.

Now, he is my moral compass. There's nothing that I do that's not done with the lens of my understanding of how he wants me to show up and operate. But if I am not as devoted as I need to be, if I'm not studying, I'm not worshiping, I'm not praying as much as I need to be, then I will feel out of balance.

And so when I recognize that maybe I'm sharper, maybe I'm more irritable, maybe I don't have, I don't have much patience, it's a indicator for me that I need to, like Taiwan, I need to reassess. When's the last time I've been in my word? Am I, did I break my routine? What's happening here?

And so I, it's a struggle for me because those other things come very natural for me and this part of my life, even though it's over 20 years I've been those doing those other things for more than 20 some odd years.

Taiwan Simmons: Yeah, that's what I feel your prayers for me guys. Thank you so much. I receive those prayers.

 (laughter)

Jim: I noticed the blood seeping between your teeth when she's talking about when she's having a bad day and you're biting your tongue. I saw that.

There's so many tools that help us be more efficient with our free time. One of those is watching videos and listening to them while you're getting ready for work or during a workout. In fact, this interview can be watched on our youtube channel or on Rumble, just search for iWork4Him.

That's I work the number four him and subscribe to get notifications and watch all of our previous episodes. We've got hundreds of videos out there and we're going to put the link for YouTube and rumble right here in the show notes on the podcast.

Martha: So Taiwan, what does it look like in your life to have your spouse in second place? What does that look like?

Taiwan Simmons: You're trying to set me up. Positionally, yes, she is second place, but that is just positionally, according to God's order. She is my best friend. She's my business partner. She's my wife, she's my everything. We call each other our ride or dies.

And, with that being said, I had to build that foundation before I say this. It's tough because God is holding me accountable for not just how I'm doing, but also how she's doing. And I don't take that very lightly. So it's my responsibility to check her to discern what she's dealing with and what she's going through and figure out how to help her in her journey as well.

And that's tough sometimes. But what I've learned is that I can't be her dad. I can't parent her through this process. I really have to understand and learn where she is particularly. Somebody very wise just said recently that every three and a half years I get a new wife. I have to figure out how I'm going to navigate the seasons of her life that she may be dealing with and how those changes impact her, but also how they impact me. And she's doing the same thing for me.

Martha: I just want to affirm you in something because over the years that we've known you, I have heard you audibly talk about leadership in the home and leading your wife and your focus on it, whether there's times where it's hard or it's easy, your focus is on it.

And I affirm you in that because I've heard you say it, that it's important for me to lead. It's, even if you're just saying, God's got this we don't know all the answers, but we're going to walk this out together, whatever it might be. And I just- what a great example for the people that you lead and the people listening to this show and the many other places where you have a place of influence because just hearing you say that gives permission for the other men in their homes to, to do that as well.

I think the common theme here is we don't all have it figured out, but we know what God desires from us and we need to move in that direction.

Jim: But I also know what when you're what you're saying, Taiwan. When you're addicted to your spouse it's a serious addiction. And so it's hard to keep your wife second when you know, you're totally addicted to your wife. So I get that because you know, I often am in danger of putting Martha too high up on my priority list because I really like her.

Taiwan Simmons: You drank the kool aid too Jim, I know yes, that's right.

Jim: I drank that kool aid lot longer. You guys were little kids when I drank that kool aid

 (laughter)

Jim: All right, so Martha, why is it critical? We've had a lot of conversations with maybe 80 or 90 couples over the last 25 years. Why is it critical the kids are the number three priority?

Martha: I think that it is critical because the world It tells us differently. The world tells us, do everything for your kids. Your kids are entitled to so much and you have to keep them busy and expose them to all these things. And the minute you do that, the kids start to think that the world revolves around them and that they are the center of the universe. And as much as we might think that our kids are, that is so unhealthy for us to teach them that.

And we want the best for them, but we want them to become responsible adults that love the Lord and can give back to the world that God has put them in. So the danger with not having them in the right spot is that they become, this is assuming you're putting them, elevating them too high on your priority list, that you're giving them a false sense of what the world really looks like.

And so not only for their sake, but for your family's sake and function. That's why we have to be so careful.

Jim: All right. So Taiwan and Sh'nai - work was supposed to come, it's not supposed to come before God. It's really not supposed to come before our spouse or our kids. Yet work is necessary to support our spouse and kids. Why should work be in that priority position? Why is it so important that we keep work in check?

She got the doctorate first. I think maybe she should go first.

Taiwan Simmons: That's okay. I can answer that.

Sh'nai Simmons: He said she got the doctorate first which means possibly a second I don't know

Jim: I wasn't being prophetic. I'm not

 (laughter)

Taiwan Simmons: She just took that layup, and she's trying to throw that out there because unless Jesus comes down physically, I've said that I'm not furthering my education. Okay, that's a sidebar. But anyway, for all the reasons that we have talked about because when your alignment is off, it perpetuates things.

It creates other problems, so if God is not first, your wife is not second and you don't focus on your family, then you setting yourself up for your family to feel neglected, your wife to feel neglected. And on top of that, if God is not at the anchor and at the source of all those things, you actually are setting yourself up for Idolatry and for things to be in and out of balance. Idolatry is a killer in your marriage and in your relationship.

Jim: For sure. So what do you think in the kingdom? You guys have been working in the church volunteering in your church for a long time. You had a phenomenal church and in Virginia, you got a phenomenal church down there in Tampa Bay. You interact with a lot of Christians, you interact with a lot of people who are pre Christian, pre believers. Who do you think most needs to hear this conversation in the Kingdom of God?

Taiwan Simmons: Jim, you are profound. I'm going to leave it there. I'm going to say everybody needs to hear this. Um, there's not somebody who's arrived and who has figured it out. I think for us, like you said, we're in spaces where we're around our folks at church, we're around our folks in the community, in the streets, and Sh'nai and I are always having conversations about our experiences with couples and just about how it's unfortunate that, and I'm gonna speak for myself, she can sign or co sign on this, I found that the people who should have it figured out, they don't have it figured out.

And the people who shouldn't have it figured out, don't have it figured out. So we all need to figure it out, right? And the only way that we can do that is, is that we have to have an anchor in the middle of that who is Christ.

Martha: And the truth of the matter is biblical principles work for everyone, whether they put their faith in the biblical principles and the salvation we know of that is written in scripture, the principles still apply and we know that they are valid and they help us in our daily walk.

So no matter who we share that with it can be a blessing to them. So let's tie that into your book that you guys wrote: get in touch the ABCs of a strong Christian marriage. How can that help our listeners keep their priorities in check?

Jim: Wow. If you're not watching on video. Y'all saw that, right? If you're not watching on video, there's a little hand to hand combat there in the studio on the other end right there.

Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, because I was still on the last question.

Jim: Yeah, go ahead. Go back. It's fine.

Sh'nai Simmons: Yeah, because in the work that we do, I do think that clergy is at risk of not properly operating in these priorities. Because oftentimes they mistake the work that is done at church for putting God first. And unfortunately, in some atmospheres, that is also perpetuated through the levels of staff and volunteer, and so there's this propensity for folks to be walking around in the false balance because they're serving God, but they're not properly prioritizing their home life.

I've gone in too many homes that were in disarray, but the individual never misses a service, never misses a volunteer situation, never misses a meeting. But you can't find your children's socks for school. And that's, I got stuck there because I think everybody needs to hear the message, but I do think there is a vulnerability in the faith world for faith leaders who misappropriate their church work for serving God to the point where he and I recognized at one point that even though Sunday was our Sabbath, we were working so we realized that we weren't really taking a Sabbath. And we fight now. We don't always get it and get it all the way through but we adopted starting a Sabbath on Saturday and so shutting down mid Saturday because we knew we were gonna be, he's a pastor at the church. We knew he was going to be working .And so I just didn't want to skip that nugget that has become very prevalent in our time.

Jim: I was just saying it really goes down to so many people think that doing stuff for God is the same as being with God. And God is not interested in all the really fantastic things you do for him. He wants a relationship with you.

And that's a big difference and we really are out of time. And I want to make sure people know, listen, if you want to hear more nuggets of wisdom from Taiwan and Sh'nai, get a copy of their book, get in touch, the ABCs of a strong Christian marriage. It's available.

Martha: We'll put a link in the show notes.

Jim: We will put a link and you can get it on Amazon. It's a great book. It's just practical. And that's what I like. Just practical, fun, great stories, just practical.

Martha: Yeah. We'll have all those things in the show notes for everybody to listen to or to connect with. And thank you so much for this conversation. But if you're looking for a quick way to prepare for your work from a biblical perspective, try subscribing to the iWork4Him Power Thought found on your favorite platform or the link can be right in the show notes here too. And it's just one minute every day to help you set up your heart right before you enter your work.

Jim: Taiwan and Sh'nai Simmons. Thanks for being on iWork4Him today. Thanks for sharing from your hearts and being honest about the fact that you got some priority issues at times.

Sh'nai Simmons: Yes. Thanks for having us on this show as always, man.

Taiwan Simmons: We love you guys. It's been a pleasure.

Jim: You guys too. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

9/6/23 - 2006: Your Business is a Blessing

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Business is a blessing. I'm here to directly contradict those who think that business is a necessary evil. If that were really the case, then , probably wouldn't have sent Jesus to the family of a small business owner. If business were a necessary evil, then Jesus wouldn't have been managing the family business after Joseph died.

And let's get something straight. Business was designed to be a blessing to the owners of the business, the family of the owners, the customers, the vendors, and employees, and the community around the business. Any business that's not doing these things is a business that won't be around for very long.

How do I know that God intended for business to be a blessing? I read my Bible today. We've asked Chris Young from the Good Place Institute to join us as we discuss business as a blessing. And the very purpose of business. I'm hoping when we're done today, you'll see the business is a tool for impacting your community. Business is a tool that brings flourishing, both mind and body and spirit. Chris Young, welcome to iWork4Him.

Chris Young: Thank you so much, Jim and Martha. Appreciate being here. It's an honor.

Jim: Oh, it's great to have you. Chris, where did you develop your love for business?

Chris Young: A great question. I grew up in a pretty athletic family and I think I really love the organization of team sports, honestly, so way back from a young age. Any time that there is a purposeful vision, the organization of resources, of people, of time, of talent, of treasure organized in such a fashion to reach those visions, I think that's where I developed my, my love for business, but love for organizations and people coming together to accomplish something pretty meaningful.

Martha: What a great way to put it, because there's just so much we could delve into that, but I love that idea that it's about the purpose of the organization. So do you agree, Chris, with the premise that Jim said, where business should be a blessing for the owner, the employee, the vendors, the customers, and the community?

Chris Young: Without a doubt! We have a mantra at the Good Place Institute and Good Place Holdings where work is a means of grace. And I think that's fairly synonymous with what you just shared as far as work being a blessing to all those constituents, right? And what we, what do you mean by a blessing?

There's certainly monetary blessing and we can pay our bills and it's for physical sustenance, take care of our families, et cetera, et cetera. But it goes well beyond that, right? Work as a means of grace in that It helps us become better, helps us reach our full potential, so we become better.

You could say that God is working in us, on us, and through us, through the community of organizational life and work, to make us something we're not, make us something that we could never be on our own, right? And that's a means of grace, becoming more and more like the perfect human of Jesus, which is actually discipleship.

Jim: But Chris, you said work, but business - I grew up hearing often from religious leaders that business was a necessary evil. Where did you get the idea and where do you hear it? Where do you see it that business actually is a blessing?

Chris Young: Yeah. You said at the beginning, at the outset of the show here, it's in the Bible, it's in God's word. Way back in Genesis, people might know this as the cultural mandate. Before people messed everything up, God made things good and very good, and one of the things he made very good is work, right? And you organize work in a business setting, you know, a for profit business setting, also in a non profit business setting or a non profit organizational setting, right? And it's all the way back in Genesis when God made things good and very good.

It's meaningful, It's fulfilling. And so yeah, you've touched on a fun topic that we like to talk about as well, and that's the sacred secular myth. You know, and there's a plethora of verses all throughout the storyline of the Bible that says everything is sacred. God cares about everything.

Everything has an opportunity to optimize God's design. For flourishing, for thriving, and for glorifying Him. I get it from the Bible and God's Word.

Martha: When you think about it, we think about, there are times when work is really hard. And it doesn't necessarily feel like a blessing, but we're in that work for multiple reasons. Somebody saw a need that they wanted to fulfill, or they had to feed their family, and so they needed to provide a way to earn an income. And all of those are different forms of blessings. We just don't think of it that way necessarily in our day to day. Jim, when we talk about blessing, one of the things that we want to do is bless the listeners.

And recently our board of directors decided that for any amount of donations to iWork4Him, we would actually bless that person with a copy of our book iWork4Him. So I just want to take a minute right now and let everybody know that. That is a blessing that we can bestow upon you and we would love to do that. You can go to iWork4Him.com and go to the donate button and we would love to bless you with a copy of the book.

Jim: All right, Martha, we've traveled across the country. We've seen, we've interviewed a ton of business people. What's one example where you see that the business that we've interviewed has been a blessing not only to the business owner and their family, but also to their vendors and their customers and their employees and their community? Can you give me one example that comes to your mind?

Martha: Okay, I think of a roofer in tampa bay that from their own proceeds, they have a program where every year they give away a roof to someone who really needs it. And all of their employees work on it, all of their vendors give towards it. It's something they do above and beyond with what they've been blessed with to bless their community. And that's such a tangible way, but they get everybody involved. So it's not just, we're blessing this one woman who's raising her kids and has a leaky roof. The vendors are participating, they're knowing what they're doing, and that trickles all the way down. And so to me, that's just one.

Jim: Aries roofing. Yes. Alright, Chris, you at the Good Place Institute, your whole idea is to make good places to work. Your whole idea is to train up business owners and leaders and organizational leaders to make it a good place to work.

We're going to, in the last half of the show, you're going to actually bring on a guest of somebody that's actually been doing this, but give us an example of where you saw this in action when you said, Hey, this is something we should train other people to do. Do you get some examples of what motivated you to start the Good Place Institute?

Chris Young: Yeah. That, that goes all the way back to 1965 when the organization that launched the Good Place Holdings and Good Place Institute started where it's about delving into God's Word in the Bible and saying, God, what do you say about work? What do you say about organizational life? And all of that.

The first example is a company called S. D. Myers that started back in 1965. Again, that launched the things that I mentioned. And it was really about how do you actually operate an organization that does build up God's kingdom, that does fulfill the cultural mandate, that does fulfill the great commandment to make disciples, right?

And I like to use this phrase, hopefully nobody gets offended it's way more than ice cream and evangelism, even though that those are important things. It's the actual operation of the organization that brings about some of the blessing that you're talking about.

Jim: You know this week on the air on our one minute power thought that broadcasts on tons of christian music stations across the country, we really talked about the individual. You know what does it look like to be a blessing to the business owner, a blessing to the vendors, a blessing to the customers, and the blessing to the employees and of course a blessing to the community?

And what's really fun is when you look at being a blessing to the employees, they just love coming to work. They feel love, they feel accepted, they feel invested in, and that's super important, but our customers are getting a great product, whether it's a product or a service, it's delivering what we promised them and to our vendors, we're paying our bills on time.

 Being a blessing has so many facets to it, but that's really what you train in the Good Place Institute. That's what the Good Place Institute's all about. I mean you saw it in action in the Good Place Holdings and you decided to help others learn it, right?

Chris Young: Correct. Yeah. Again, we use the word derive a lot around here, and not that we have the corner of the market on the truth by any means, but we're trying to look at God's word through, through obviously the Bible, but also his word comes through the life of Jesus. His word comes through creation, et cetera, et cetera. We're saying, God, what do you have to say? Specifically, Martha, I love what you said, because it's about purpose, right? So what is the purpose of businesses or organizations if we're espousing a faith based, a kingdom based, a biblically based, you know, foundation?

And we've identified three major success criteria for all Good Place Organizations, which good place is really a euphemism for the kingdom, right? And it's about valuing people - valuing people because all people are made in God's image. So everyone, no matter what you believe, you deserve respect and honor and care and love, et cetera, et cetera.

So at a Good Place Organization, we hope all people feel like they belong to a community that loves and cares and treats them with respect and honor. And number two is training, education, and development, right? One of the things that draws people to an organization is becoming a better version of themselves and contributing to the whole, right? So we try to provide that in that way as well.

And there's a couple others and I'm sure we'll get into talking about that. But the other phrase that we like to use is when it comes to one of the things we talk about in 10 areas of stewarding a Good Place Organization is charter. And you use the word blessing. We'll use the word benefit, right? And we teach people, hey , how do I craft a vision, mission, values kind of statement that starts with, hey, this organization exists to provide these beneficiaries with these benefits within these values commensurate with this investment? And that's the, one of the things we teach, but it all revolves around the benefit to people, vendors, suppliers, community that organization can provide.

Martha: So I'm the kind of person that loves to actually see pictures of what that looks like. So can you give me examples or tell me what you're seeing when people implement the conversations the strategies, the principles that you're giving, teaching with them in the Good Place Institute?

Chris Young: Yeah. One of the things that we see is alignment. So one of the things we hear from people a lot is people have vision statements but maybe we don't know how to talk about them throughout the whole organization, for instance, or, we don't know or we're struggling or we're challenged with how to get everybody's activities, everybody's mind, everybody's heart around accomplishing the vision or the collective purpose of the organization.

So there are tools and methods and, you might call it an organizational operating system, to build up these kind of kingdom organizations where everybody, 1, feels a part of it and everyone in the organization is aligned, to it.

So there was that old story way back when the president was walking at NASA or whatever, and they said, Hey, what are you doing? And the person was clearly sweeping the floor, but their answer back to the president was we're helping put a person on the moon. That's one of the things that we love to see is that people directly connect what they do, no matter what they do, because all parts of the body of the organization are important, whether they're seen or unseen, right? They all directly understand, know, and feel how they are an integral cog in the whole system that accomplishes that correct collective purpose. And that is so much fun to see.

Jim: I can't imagine the impact that must make on employees inside of Good Place Organizations when they understand that they're part of the greater mission, the organizational mission. They're not just a janitor. They're not just a database administrator. They're helping reach that mission. And what I love inside, you know, inside your Good Place Organization Book that i'm holding up here on the video.

Chris Young: Thanks for the plug, Jim. Love it.

Jim: You know, what I love is that you unapologetically use the Bible as the backbone of making a Good Place Organization. And you do it, you say, whether you believe in God or not, the Bible is, you can't look anywhere else in the world for a book that's been published more than the Bible and that provides the framework for creating a good place to work.

And you use pages and pages to justify why you're doing it. And then throughout the book, you just show how practical the Bible really is. I love that. And so I encourage people to get a copy of this. Where could people get a copy of the good place organization?

Chris Young: Yeah, sure. The easiest place is amazon, so that would be an easy place. But also our website - it's goodplaceinstitute. com. You can order either way.

Martha: And we'll put that link in the show notes for people so they don't have to struggle to find it.

Jim: Another free plug for amazon right here on iWork4Him!

All right, but you talk about the organizations are within the Good Place Holdings, inside your organization Good Place Holdings. And you've got several of them. I'd like you just to give, before we bring on our specific guests that you brought in from San Antonio, Texas today, talk to me about how your Good Place Holdings have impacted the communities that they operate within.

So give me an example of one of your Good Place Holdings. If you can give a name, if you can't give a name, that's fine. And how they're impacting the community.

Chris Young: Yeah, sure. One of them is a couple of them that kind of go together and we call these our community impact businesses. We have several verticals of businesses and what we're trying to do is go into communities where perhaps there are folks who need to raise level of quality of life and provide jobs - meaningful, fulfilling, living wage and above jobs for people so that they can maybe get themselves out of poverty. Maybe they can, again, increase quality of life for them, their families, their children. And so some of our businesses are directly related to community impact.

Jim: This journey that you're going on - I'm sorry, Martha. This journey that you're going on, the Good Place Holdings journey, the Good Place Institute journey, Chris Young, how has it impacted you personally?

Chris Young: I'm going to pause, because how's it impacted me personally? I'll get a little personal just for a second. Maybe for you all, or I think this is the case for my friend, Ryan, who's going to come on here in a second, this is my phrase. It is unbelievably fantastically awesome to be in the flow of the creator of the universe and what he's called your life to. It's a sweet spot.

Again, if you looked at me, you wouldn't know, but a long time ago, I used to be an athlete. And, athletes call it being in the zone. Where the basket looks this big and no matter how you throw it, it just goes in somehow, and so I think the Institute and the things that we believe God is calling us to do to help other business leaders build up Good Place Organization so that it can have impact and blessing. And all of that on the people that you mentioned, it's humbling. It's honoring.

I have two prayers always since we started this, really started it a couple of years ago, packaged it up in a book and did all that sort of. We've been practicing these principles for a couple of decades, we're just commercializing them in the past year or so. But, my first prayer: God, please make sure that this is theologically accurate. We don't want to stray from what you say and what you want.

Number two is: God, really, this is the message you want us to send or bring? This is your message you want us to bring to the marketplace? Because the other thing I've learned is it's challenging. And a friend of mine had a phrase that, you're close to the target when the bullets are firing at you. And they fly, because the enemy does not want, in the marketplace, unbeknownst to some Christian business owners, the enemy has territory there, and he does not want it taken. And we're taking it.

Martha: It's so great to see how it has impacted you and knowing that you are in that the flow of the work of the Lord and that you're in the zone and using the gifts, talents and abilities that God has created in you to use for the organizations that you're touching.

As you talk about your journey and the impact that it's had on you I just want to remind the listeners that the sheWorks4Him book that we wrote about embracing your calling as a Christian working woman has got 19 different journeys of women in it that are all sharing their story of how God has worked out in their work. And I just want to remind you that if you do go to iWork4Him. com and make a donation, our board of directors would love to give you a copy of that book if you so choose.

Jim: Yeah, Chris, I love your story, the story of the Good Place Institute and Good Place Holdings and how you've practically put it all together in a manual. So people can just get it at the Good Place Organizational book. It's, it literally is a how to guide and how to make every place a good place to work. But you've got somebody that you've been working with that you brought on the show today. Who do you have for us today that's got their story they can tell for themselves?

Chris Young: Yeah. A friend of mine, a good friend, Ryan Shutt, who's the CEO of Southwest exteriors. Love to introduce him. And he can tell you, he can tell you the real story.

Jim: Ryan, welcome to iWork4Him. And Southwest exteriors, not a first time on iWork4Him. When we asked Chris, just pick somebody that you're working with that can tell the story of how their place is becoming a Good Place Organization. And he says I'm going to, I got this, the CEO of Southwest exteriors.

I'm like, Martha, we've been to Southwest. 2019, I believe it was. We were in San Antonio, Texas, and spent a day there with many people on your team. I don't believe we got to meet Ryan, but we're grateful to have you back now as the CEO, the new CEO of Southwest Exteriors. Thanks for being here, Ryan.

Ryan Shutt: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, guys. I truly appreciate it.

Martha: So tell us how you heard about the Good Place Institute.

Ryan Shutt: Yeah, so our owner, we call him our steward, Scott Barr, has been a big fan of GPI for a lot of years. And, Chris, man, I know this part of the story, so I'll go ahead and share it and just be totally candid.

We had done a small project with Chris for our customer support center. And I was new to my role, my replacement in the marketing seat was overseeing that. And I was not fully engaged in those meetings. It was like, okay, this is a good idea. Scott thinks it's great. It's really interesting. But I wasn't really fully bought in at all. And then in 2022, we acquired a new business unit for window coverings. And I was not in my seat then, but I was able to see a lot of what went on. And what I realized is we had no framework and no structure for who we are organizationally, and if we're going to continue to grow, we had really no foundation for that.

So I thought back to all my conversations with Scott talking about GPI and I was like, you know what? Maybe these guys have something they can actually help us out with. Started thumbing through the book, started talking to Chris, and the rest is history, as they say.

Jim: . And as Ryan Shutt says, GPI, he means a Good Place Institute, online at goodplaceinstitute.com.

Ryan, we can speak to this a little differently than most people could in the country. Southwest Exteriors was already a good place to work because we interviewed five people on your staff back in 2019. I can't remember all the names. I should have looked that up before we did the show.

Martha: I think we should link the old show in the notes. That would be fun to go back and listen.

Jim: Sat around the conference table and interviewed different people. It was already a good place to work.

Martha: Yes. So why then? So what was the propulsion? What happened then as you engaged with GPI that that your company needed to do?

Ryan Shutt: Yeah, so for me, the Good Place Institute, it's really two functionalities, right? And this is, Chris, right? It's about managing systems and valuing people.

And we had the valuing people part really figured out, right? But we were really more focused on managing people and their day to day tasks and day to day responsibilities. And so that shift of going, hey, how do we truly build out these great processes? Because the processes that we had, they lived in everybody's heads.

We've had people that have been here for a lot of years, and we're very lucky with that. But unfortunately, people leave at times, and, there's definitely a risk of going, Hey, all these processes of so and so were to leave the organization, that process leaves with them. And so we had no foundation, no structure in place to really, to grow. And while we had great people and great culture - God is true, the center of everything that we do - we still needed a framework in order to grow.

Jim: So the framework, I've just finished reviewing the book. I didn't get a chance to read it cover to cover, but I did read it cover to cover, just not every piece. Cause there's a lot of meat in this. When you look to Southwest exteriors and like I said, it was already a good place to work. It already had a great model. You already had a lot of great people and you already had great customer service. What was the one big thing you thought you were missing besides the framework? Was there any pieces of the Good Place Institute model that's one we can really work on?

Ryan Shutt: Yeah. So for me, it's truly clearly defined processes, right? So there's a guy that works for us. He's one of our project managers. And when I stepped in to my new role, he and I went to lunch one day, and he gave a great analogy of, he goes, I feel like I'm climbing a mountain. I've already got a backpack full of rocks and every time something goes wrong, we make a change to a process, that another rock is added to my backpack.

And so as we climb up this mountain and we continue to grow, my backpack's getting heavier and heavier. And Ryan, I just, I can't climb the mountain anymore because our process is so cumbersome. And so for me, that was really an eye opening moment of going, hey, everything that goes wrong, we're being very reactionary as opposed to going back and saying, hey, where in the process did this break down or where in the process did this employee not follow the process properly?

And we're just adding rocks to our employees backpack time after time, and it wasn't sustainable. And so that for me is really going, Hey, how do we get very clear and mapped out processes in place so we no longer have to continue to weigh down on our employees?

Martha: So for the listeners that are hearing this little kind of like listening in on this conversation and getting a peek inside of your organization and wondering what was the impact, because it could be tedious to figure out processes and work through all of that to get to the point where you are today, and I'm sure you're never probably done, right?

There's always new things that are happening. Tell the listener what is an impact that you see that could be an encouragement to them?

Ryan Shutt: Yeah so in full disclosure, we're still in the process of building this out. We're still in the coaching phase. I think, as you go through that process, one of the biggest initial changes, it's conversations start happening, right? And this idea of well, why are we doing it this way? And this that's what we've always done. It starts to break down really quickly, right? Because it just, as you break down those processes and those steps and procedures, you're like, man, that is just really inefficient.

And so that's the initial thing. Just having those conversations and going, hey, there's nothing sacred in our process, right? It's defined by people, and we make mistakes all the time. So just knowing that, Hey there's no egos involved. Let's just get the best process in place as possible and start growing to be more effective in what we do.

Jim: And we have found in business that one line- in response to your question - why are we doing it this way? That's the way we've always done. It is the first key to there's something we can work on.

Chris Young: Right.

Ryan Shutt: Yeah, it's the old analogy, right? Pick your hard, right? We could choose to not have processes and continue to have these headaches and these client issues and these employee issues, or we can choose the hard of start and develop these processes and very defined guardrails for how we do it. So I'd much rather pick that hard than just going by the seat of our pants.

Jim: So when you look at the impact of the Good Place Institute and understand that business is really to be a blessing to the owner and his or her family, the vendors, the customers, the employees, and the community, what are you seeing so far as your biggest takeaway in your interaction with Good Place Institute? The biggest impact you've seen already, because you said you're already knee deep at this, so you're not to the finish line. You're running a marathon. You're not running a sprint. What's the biggest takeaway so far? The thing you've seen, wow, I've seen God in that.

Ryan Shutt: Yeah, so I would say it's simply that, right? It's the fact that God is present in it, right? It's just the divine alignment. It aligns with who we are culturally. For years we've been a scaling up company, right? We've looked at both EOS and scaling up or the Rockefeller Habits, however you want to define that. And those processes are agnostic at best, right? There's nothing wrong with those processes, but there's no God in the center of those.

And so if we're going to espouse to be who we say we are, for us not to have God at the center of our processes is a massive miss, right? That's really the biggest thing is for us, Jim, is the alignment of going, hey, this is truly who we are. And this exudes, at the very core of who we want to be.

Martha: Chris, we have only touched the tip of the iceberg about GPI, and we want our listeners to be intrigued, but if they need to know, they want to know more, they want to share this more than just sharing the podcast with their boss or the owner or their co workers, what's the best next step for them?

Chris Young: Sure, I'm going to give Ryan's home phone number.

 (laughter)

Martha: And he's going to have it disconnected.

 (laughter)

Chris Young: The easiest, obviously, is the website, goodplaceinstitute. com. You're welcome to get the book and read through that. I would love to talk if anybody would like to contact me, please do. You can see, hopefully, I love to talk about this.

I love to journey along with others who want to not just talk about it, but do it. So those would be a couple of different resources. If you don't mind to if somebody does want to order the book on our website, I can give them a quick discount code when the time is right.

Martha: Excellent. You want to share it with me and I'll put it in the show notes? I can do that.

Chris Young: Wonderful. We'll just say GOODPLACEPODCAST .

Martha: Okay. GOODPLACEPODCAST. And we'll have that in there and that will give you a discount code, everybody. So it's a very good first step to take. And we appreciate your generosity with that.

Jim: So Ryan, before we let you go, and before we close out the show, Southwest Exteriors, when we were in the showroom, you were doing doors, you were doing garage doors, you're doing exterior sidings, that kind of thing. I think roofing was involved. It was a lot of stuff, but you mentioned that now you're doing window coverings. If somebody is living in the San Antonio, how far outside of San Antonio are you servicing customers today?

Ryan Shutt: Yeah, so basically, so San Antonio is based in Bexar County, and so basically Bexar County and any contiguous counties, any county that touches Bexar County, we'll come out and, give them a quote or whatever they may need.

Jim: Yeah, and we can guarantee the customer service is beyond imagination because we've heard it from the employees, and when employees are thriving in an organization, the customers, the vendors, the community are going to be a blessing. They're going to be blessed by it. Just because people love to work there and that's a lot of fun.

So thank you so much, Ryan, for being here today as the CEO of Southwest Exteriors. Thank you, Chris Young, for being here as the CEO of the Good Place Institute. Love having you here. Love the idea. And Chris, I don't think this will be our last conversation because I got big plans for you right here, Marionville, Missouri, which we won't go into, but thank you both for being here with us.

Martha: We love sharing these kinds of stories about Good Place Institute, the impact that it's having all over and having this conversation, Jim, about business being a blessing to everyone involved. And that's something we've actually gotten to talk about a little bit this fall in some local events.

Listeners, if you are ever looking for somebody to speak into that from an outside perspective, it's one thing to have co workers sharing about that but to have somebody come in, you can go to iWork4Him. com and go to our contact page reach out to us. Let's have a conversation.

Jim: Yeah, we'd love to talk about it, your business and your club activities, you know, whatever - your local city council, we'd love to talk about it. But thank you all for being here today. It's been great! You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers and our workplace is definitely our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him. For him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangeberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's @ iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

8/30/23 - 2005: The Power of Connection

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Yeah, one phrase has more successfully defeated and sidelined more Christians in the history of Christianity than any other. One statement that believers make that couldn't be more false, but is believed almost 100 percent of the time. One false belief that acts, in effect, as an epidemic in Christianity. This one phrase needs to be eliminated in the hearts, minds, and souls of every believer in Jesus, and it needs to start in your heart.

The phrase that sidelines and defeats more believers is this: I'm just a blank. I'm just a an accountant. I'm just a car salesman. I'm just a teacher. I'm just a lawyer. I'm just a lineman. I'm just a nurse. I'm just a construction worker. What kind of difference can I make? I'm thinking of quitting my job and working in a ministry to make a real difference.

Today we end that diabolical thinking! That thinking is from the enemy of your soul. Your work is significant and God has you right where you are on purpose. As we talk about the significance of your job today, we bring in Chad Hawley from the Nexus Mountain Network, online at nexusmountainnetwork. com. We want you to get involved there and we want you to hear Chad's story. Chad Hawley. Welcome to iWork4Him.

Chad Hawley: Hi, everyone. Hi, Jim and Martha, I should say. I'm so excited to be here and looking forward to the few minutes we're going to spend time together today,

Jim: Chad, did you ever wonder if you should quit your job so you could go into full time Christian ministry?

Chad Hawley: I thought it all the time. It's something that I think about on a regular basis. There's a concept that's out there that's called the seven mountains. And if you are familiar with it, it's the seven categories that shape culture. And so two of those categories, one is business and one is religion. And I've always had one foot in religion and I've always had one foot in business my entire life. So the idea of thinking about quitting my job or moving away from my job or shifting into something else, it was always on the forefront of my mind because I always had one foot in ministry my entire life.

Martha: We struggled with that as well. You know as teenagers we committed our lives to full time christian ministry and we thought you know at a youth conference when you are pouring your heart out to the Lord that means then, okay, I'm going to be a missionary or a pastor. And for years as entrepreneurs, Chad, we had that same tension of, what am I supposed to be doing? Am I fulfilling the calling that I felt like God gave me or am I neglecting that to make money?

Essentially and, iWork4Him was birthed out of God really opening our eyes about what that really meant in our workplace. But I think it's attention that a lot of our listeners also, even if they don't know it or how to articulate it, are struggling with.

Jim: Boy, we've heard it so many times and honestly, it was being guilt driven, Chad. I don't know if you felt guilty. You were naturally gifted in industry. Did you ever feel guilty for continuing to work there instead of using your job, your skills for God in ministry?

Chad Hawley: I had a moment in my life that really changed for me that God really wants people in business. And the short version is I had this dream one night and I was really struggling financially. I was really sick. I didn't know how I was going to pay for my family. And the bills and expenses and everything we have. And I had this particular dream and I won't go through the whole dream, we don't have time for that today, but the gist of the dream was, is that this dream took place in April of a few years ago, but in the dream the Lord clearly showed me that a Christmas in July was coming in my life, and he made it so clear that it was a gift from the Father, and so I actually went, it was so powerful that I went on my back deck, with my family, my wife and my four children, and I reenacted the dream.

And I said, and here I am sick, running out of money. And I said, I think God is going to show up financially in July. And sure enough, when July 1st came of that year, I got a random phone call and it was someone saying, Hey, are you doing, they described the business? And I said yes, I am. Even though it had already dried up.

And from that moment for probably for the last, I want to say years of my life, still today I got business that has produced residual income in my life. And the takeaway from that moment was that God does want you in business and he will position you. He will actually do it because I had a lot of experience.

I was in the pharmaceutical industry for over 20 years. I was in sales marketing management. At one point I was the national sales trainer for the second largest pharmaceutical company in the world. So in my own abilities and skills I had developed them and experiences. As I developed those. But God did all of that work in that moment. And it always told me, okay, God's in business.

Martha: So I was going to ask you what your natural giftings are. How do you define that, Chad?

Chad Hawley: I would say communication has always been strong, even in college. My undergraduate degree was communication. I think some people when they first go to college, they don't know what to do. And they're like I like to talk. So the easy road is I'll do a communication degree. But I did go on to get a master's degree in business administration. I first started out at a company, a Ford motor company, and I was in roles that I did well in. I flew, like I got promoted, but I was like, this is just, isn't it.

And I was like I even looked at positions one, two and three ahead of me and say, okay, that's my future. I'm like, I don't even want that. So I went looking for a career that I could use my skills, that you asked, Martha, of sales and persuasion and making an impact and influence. And so I looked into the pharmaceutical industry and that's how I got into that industry.

And then I just, I was good at it. I was able to communicate with people. I understood people. I could analyze a relationship and then make modifications so that those relationships would be successful. And so those are the things that I developed. And then I went into training and those types of things, and your whole point of the show is "I'm just a ___", and we'll talk about that in a minute. But there's no "I'm just a ___" because I found out that all of that was just for His purposes.

Jim: So if you look at the gifts, talents, and abilities that God has given you, would they be in full use within the structure of a four walls church or on the foreign mission field?

Chad Hawley: So, partially, and it could be, and it may be some point, but not right now. And that's not what God's called me to do. Our whole purpose, even now I got my whole purpose, by a wild experience where I almost died of cancer, and it got really bad. And in that moment where I thought I was going to die I asked the Lord one question and that one question was why did you create me?

And I waited for an answer. I even waited for an answer in a moment of despair and depression because it had gotten so bad. And I got this answer that I thought, I think this is from God. And it was that I was going to create a Christian based social network that was going to organize Christians to connect, learn, and achieve His purposes outside of the four walls of the church.

And we were going to organize by this concept called the seven mountains. I was so persuaded by this idea that I went on my computer and I made a movie trailer, like you see it coming soon. I needed to like have hope that I was going to live. So I made this movie trailer on my computer.

It was 90 seconds. And I wrote a script, a voiceover, editing, swishes and sounds. And I took this 90 second video and I submitted it to my inner circle of people and I said, Agree with me, I'm gonna live and not die and fulfill this purpose. And everything changed after I did that. Dramatically. I was supposed to get chemo, radiation, a third surgery to cut out part of my tongue just to keep me alive. And I got none of it. That was four years ago.

Martha: Wow. It's so powerful to hear that. And, there's so many things that God showed you in the midst of that, but knowing all along where your gifting was and using that for His glory, and man, that is absolutely amazing. One thing though that I was thinking when you were asking the question, Jim, is we need to be careful not to discount that those skills can be used in the church and the mission field.

And, of course, now our definition of mission field is all work. But the foreign mission field, what you're talking about, Jim, we know people that have used their HR skills within a mission organization to help that organization run the mission more effectively and more efficiently. So not to discount using those skills across the globe where God has called you, but we want to focus on the fact that we don't want people to feel discounted because they're using it in a for profit situation. So it's a gentle balance, but God created each one of us with amazing purpose.

Jim: But it's a small percentage of us that get called to work inside the Four walls of a church or go on the foreign mission field. The 96 plus percentage of us are called to go out into the workforce because that's how people are going to learn about Jesus is by us living out our faith at our work.

Chad , how important is it for believers to understand the significance of their work?

Chad Hawley: So, I have this concept that I teach and it's very helpful when people don't know how to answer that question. And so if you take your life and you draw a horizontal line on a piece of paper across the sheet of paper, and you use that as a timeline for your life. And then you begin to map out the great moments of your life.

And then what I call the peaks. And then you also document the valleys of your life, like the really difficult times. And you go through and you write descriptions of these peaks and these valleys, and you look back, you're going to find trends. And for example, this is biblical, Joseph does this. We use Joseph as an example of a, he was a government marketplace guy.

If you look at his life, when you look at his peaks and his valleys, you will see that even in both moments, he was called to leadership. You'll find leadership in the peaks and valleys. You'll find dreams in the peaks and the valleys, and you will find this accusations, betrayal on his life.

And these are all things that are set up for the future. And when you examine your own life like this, you will find trends that will show you your future, and so you can actually leverage what's been in the past to be a predictor of the future.

Jim: That's interesting. I got to map that out because it's just like Joseph. Joseph had some serious ups and some serious downs.

Martha: But learning all along and, understanding that our work is significant because God created us. God does not make mistakes. Jim and I will talk about that. We'll joke. Oh, we'll be like, oh, I used to, as a kid, think I was too short, and did God make a mistake?

Jim: No, He didn't make a mistake. He created you specifically on purpose for that purpose. I like short chicks. It worked out perfect for me.

Martha: But speaking of that significance, Jim, we recently took our books that we've written and put them in a PDF format that's easily downloadable on our website. And there you can see more about the significance of work. And so you can go to iWorkForHim. com forward slash the bookstore, and there you can see all the different formats that you can get it in and download one for yourself.

So Chad, God has been working on you, God has you working on a huge project that's already been launched, and that is called the Nexus Mountain Network.

So what is the mountain part of that? You hit on it a little bit, and then how do I know if I'm on one of those mountains? Like, how do I determine that?

Chad Hawley: Yeah, great. The Nexus Mountain Network is, like I said earlier, it's really set up for people to succeed outside of the four walls for God's purposes.

And so when we launched this on August 18th, which is about one year ago, we're about to celebrate our one year anniversary, it was so powerful the way the Lord clearly told us this is what He wanted to do. And I know we have a guest coming on later, but one of the teachers at the school with Sandy who is going to come on, she had a huge part in this because she prophesied to me during a parent teacher conference. And I mean she actually prophesied this and nobody knew I had this idea in my heart.

The Nexus Mountain Network. And so it was like this release that I knew it wasn't just my idea, but it was his idea. And if it was his idea, I had full confidence to proceed because in business, one of you talked about one of my skills, abilities, one of them was creativity. And so I was always recognized for creativity and developing things and new things, new ways of looking at things, new ways of solving problems. And so this was like an explosion of here we go. And so basically what it is, we are a network of people.

So Nexus actually means a series of connections. Mountain is referring to the seven mountains and network is referring to the network of people. We also happen to have a great app that is a tool to help us succeed. So this app, you can find it on Apple and you find it on Google. Again, it's called Nexus Mountain Network and inside this app has capabilities like Facebook, LinkedIn, Podcasting, Learning Networks.

We just launched yesterday a job board like LinkedIn, so Christian employers and job seekers can find one another and so that we can connect with each other. So the three pillars connect together, learn together, and achieve together his purposes. And things that we have done already, so quickly, just shows the favor of God is on it.

We've gone into schools, public school systems, where they're promoting rape, pedophilia, and all kinds of disgusting stuff to children. And because we were so connected, we were able to move so quickly and efficiently, we were able to reach out to people in media, in religion and get something done in 48 hours.

We had the initiative stop. We were standing in front of the auditorium in downtown Charlotte and a team of us were collectively giving fiery speeches to cause change. And to answer your question How do you know? Because of my background in sales and marketing and professional development.

I developed an assessment that you can do right inside the app. All this is free, by the way. And you can go on your phone and complete the assessment, and it takes about eight minutes, and it will, it's all automated, and it will send you your report of, hey what are my primary and secondary mountains for this season of my life?

Because it also can change. And so depending on what God's called you to do.

Martha: So just with that, with all that explanation, if people go and get the app Nexus Mountain right on the app then, when they open it, I know I'm looking at mine right now on my phone, it says Seven Mountain Assessment, and that's a great place to start to really understand because then you can connect with people within that realm of that mountain so that you're communicating not just to everybody, but very specifically to other teachers or government or wherever that might land. What a great way to get people started.

Jim: So let's just do a little more plugin because I love the Nexus Mountain Network. I love what you're trying to do, and you've got thousands of people already involved and you've been, it's a very interactive platform. You did the whole field of dreams thing. If I build it, they'll come. I saw it, and we've talked, we met almost a year ago when you were really launching this thing. Now you're a year later. What have you seen God do? How do you see God in the day-to-day of Nexus Mountain Network?

Chad Hawley: I'm excited 'cause we have a guest coming on that's gonna talk about how,

Jim: Don't tell her story. I want you to tell your story. What are you seeing God do? Let Sandy tell her story.

Chad Hawley: It's not about me though. That's the point, is it doesn't say Chad Hawley ministries. It says Nexus Mountain Network. So if I talk about the Nexus Mountain Network when I see God doing, I can't describe it without describing others. That's the point. And so you're going to have a hard time even finding my wife and I even anywhere in it. You have to dig deep to find out who's behind this. That's fine. But the whole point is to collaborate because the Bible says where there is unity, he commands a blessing. And we have seen that.

One thing that I've noticed very different, and this will help answer your question, is I had a lot of success in business and not only was I successful in corporate, but I was almost bored where I had capacity to take on more. So I would even start my own businesses just to appease my creativity. But one of the things that I've learned has dramatically changed to when I said yes to the call, and yes to the timing of the call, was the word favor. This changed dramatically, because I went from doing well from skills and creativity and experiences and hard work, to I'm clearly doing what God's called me to do, therefore, I have favor. And what I have found is that the Lord can trust an individual so if someone's listening, if they say yes to God, there is a trust that develops in a relationship with God, and following trust comes favor.

And I've seen this like never before. I've never experienced favor like this, where people are reaching out and say, I want this. I want to do this. I want to help you. I want to put you on my show. I want to pay you to do this or I want you to come speak. And I never had that before in my life until I was fully committed to the call of God. And then favor follows.

Jim: One more just discussion about Nexus Mountain Network and then we'll bring on your guest. Yeah, there's a lot of apps out there. There's, I don't know, just a billion of them. Why Nexus Mountain Network? Many of us in industry are already on linkedin. Nexus has got a kingdom centric a message. Just tell our listeners, explain to our listeners why this is a tool they need to have on their front page of their phone.

Chad Hawley: So people are connected, right now more than ever there's a move, especially in the United States and probably around the world where people are, the belief system of being a Christian itself is being shut down. Christians are being censored. They're to a point where they're not going to be able to say what they really want to say. And so we need to stick together. And so not only can we stick together. So if you go and use an app, you create a profile, you can actually go in. This is amazing. You can go in and you can search the world by the people that are in the network and you can do it by criteria.

So if you wanted to know, Hey, I want someone from Singapore. I want to meet someone from Texas. I want to meet someone from California in media, and you can use this filter. And it'll give you a list of whoever's in that area, according to that criteria. And you can have instant connection and communication with one another to find the people you're supposed to run with.

And sometimes they're local, sometimes they're distant. And our ultimate goal is that we create these city based communities. Like we have, we've developed a prototype in Charlotte, where we have meetings together we have local meetings. We have a, we actually have events. We had an award show that we started already, it was a lot of fun. We're gonna have another one at the end of the year, and we recognize people who are making a difference following God's purposes. And you want it there because this is my connection to why I'm living. That's why I wrote the book Purpose Will Save Your Life, and I took all of those experiences I had professionally and I even leveraged technology in the book.

We have QR codes at the end of each chapter that pushes you to certain things that's going to help you achieve it. And so when you find this purpose and you find the people you're supposed to run with, what one of my mentors says, there's a convergence that happens in your life. And so this tool will help you with that convergence where your skills come together with your purpose. And now you're walking in favor and you feel like, okay, now I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And this app will help you do that.

Martha: It's such a beautiful thing because what you're doing, walking in line with what God has created you to be so good at, and you're bringing other people together so that they can do what God's created them to do. And so it's this beautiful ripple effect that happens as a result of that.

Today we're talking, we're really focusing on this whole idea that no matter what the job is, it is significant to God and it is, and He's created each one of us uniquely for that purpose. So when we talk about jobs that matter, it's important that if we manage other people, that we're helping them to be the very best that they can be in their job.

And over the years, Jim has created a little process that he likes to use for performance reviews. And we have that available on our website for free. And it's something that actually a lot of people that are just searching for that end up finding iWork4Him and digging deeper as a result of that. So I'll put the link in the show notes for everybody. But feel free to use that, modify it, take advantage of it. I just, as we want to be better ourselves, we need to help our people.

Jim: And it's no longer annual reviews either because the next generations, they want daily reviews.

Martha: Monthly, daily, whatever. One of the things, Jim, that has always stuck with me when I started managing people is you said to me, Martha, it should never be a surprise to somebody what's on their review. You should already be having those discussions. It should never be a surprise. It's just a summary. And it's a discussion that goes on. And I hope more people take advantage of that for the purpose of feeding into their people that they are managing so that their job, they know their job is significant and matters.

Jim: And that's right on our resource page on iWork4Him.

Okay, Chad, you invited somebody today to share the impact story of them being involved in the Nexus Mountain Network. Who do you have for us today?

Chad Hawley: Speaking of jobs that matter, especially more than ever, education is under attack, our education system. And today we have with us the principal of the Comenius School for Creative Leadership, Sandy Woods.

Martha: Sandy, welcome. We're so glad to have you here.

Sandy Woods: Thank you. It's so good to be here.

Martha: So we want to dig in right away and hear how you found out about the Nexus Mountain Network.

Sandy Woods: Sure. Chad just happens to have his children at our school and we're just thrilled to have them. One of our teachers was the one who prophesied to Chad, that was amazing. And then last year, he called me and said, hey, would you give this app a try? I think it could really help you. And we have an organization called the new era association, which is the education reform association, and we really needed to be able to connect with people who wanted to reform education. And then we needed them to be able to find us, and this was the best way for this to happen.

Just a handful of us were together and now there are hundreds of teachers, reformers, homeschooling moms and dads, people who care about what's going on in education, using the nexus platform to connect with us. It's amazing.

Martha: Because without saying the obvious, the fact is that you can converse about things that you're concerned about that maybe would be censored on another platform and you wouldn't have that ability to connect, so what an amazing thing. I hadn't even thought about it. I have some ideas for off air.

Jim: All right, Sandy, it's one thing Chad said hey, you probably should check this out. You know, Chad helped develop the app, but it's another thing to actually start using The Nexus Mountain Network app found online at nexusmountainnetwork. com or in the app store under Nexus Mountain Network. Why did you start using it?

Sandy Woods: Honestly, I immediately saw that this was what was missing. You know so many people when they find, they said we think we're the only ones or we're so isolated out here in Nebraska, but now we've got a whole community of people that we can rely on and ask questions. And they float ideas which are amazing and we get them out. So this was something that we just jumped on and within a year it has grown. I am, just Chad, just thank you. It's amazing.

Martha: So other than the connection and seeing that the community is so much bigger and that you can communicate, how else has it impacted your work life?

Sandy Woods: Oh, wow. So it has given us that again, that ability to instantly connect with people. We also do a yearly conference and this has been one of the ways to promote and get the word out that this is worth people's time to come and get equipped because quite frankly, as Chad has mentioned, education is in a shambles. And people need to know their options and they just might be the answer in their area to reform and transformation.

Jim: Do you think using the Nexus Mountain Network app has helped you live out your calling more effectively?

Sandy Woods: Oh, absolutely! It's one thing to, to lead a school, but it's another thing to be able to be part of the leadership team of a movement. And as a little girl, my heart was to always be a teacher, but it was to make a difference. And now I get to do both.

Jim: Wow. That's powerful. Honestly, almost every teacher out there listening today has made a huge difference in the lives of their students. They don't get told that near enough. I've been trying to find my eighth grade english teacher Connie Johnson to tell her what a difference she made in my life, but Connie Johnson in Minnesota is like a needle in a haystack.

So just know, you teachers out there listening, you make a huge difference. Sandy, anything else you want to say about the Nexus Mountain Network? About working alongside Chad in this - anything else you want to say before we go?

Sandy Woods: Sure, Chad and Wendy are great supporters And I've been on the app and just seeing some random comments from him. I think he spends every waking hour commenting on things that people are doing. Just the support is amazing. And you don't get that from Facebook or LinkedIn. It's gonna come from Chad. And there's always Godly truth advice. So that would be my big plug is it is you can't go wrong with this. It is going to change your life.

Jim: And it's going to help you realize how significant your work really is, that you're not just a an accountant, a teacher, a bulldozer driver. You are called by God with a unique set of gifts, talents, and abilities. God has you right where you're at. I used to say on the show all the time: the job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people that you work with - none of that is by chance. The people that you work with, they need to meet Jesus and you may be their only chance!

Chad Hawley: I'll add something because there's more to what she's saying about what she's doing and how we've collaborated. So during this conference, we had, because of her leadership and her team, they had everyone download this app.

We created a special group just for them called new era and what they're doing. It was like early on and now it's just blowing up. And I'm so excited for what they're doing because it's so needed. And inside this group, we were able to leverage the app to do live panel questions. They had, she had a panel at her conference.

We did a lot of pictures and photos and videos and comments. We did push notifications where someone was doing a book signing, and so she had her schedule organized where we could push something and everyone that was at the event, they got a notification Hey, don't forget about the book signing. And inside of her people, I give her credit, because they pushed this. They had hundreds of people sign up and then they could filter in that moment real time Hey, is there anyone else here from Minnesota?

And they could sort within the group and go, Hey, someone's here from Minnesota. They can connect. Hey, I'm here. Let's connect. And to her credit and her leadership, we were able to develop a model and prototype by serving them, that now we're doing other conferences, similar to how they do theirs, and it's now going to blow up in other mountains besides education. And if you're in education, you should definitely get involved with new era.

Jim: So Sandy, he just did a great plug for that. Is there a website for new era? OR I was gonna say are you guys just connecting on the Nexus Mountain Network app?

Sandy Woods: Mainly the Nexus Mountain network. But they can go to kingdom ed alliance.com.

Jim: Kingdom ed alliance.com. We got friends and a daughter in education and they need to know about this. Chad, tell people one more time how they can get connected with the Nexus Mountain Network app.

Chad Hawley: Yeah, the easiest way, just go on your app store, Nexus Mountain Network, download it.

Jim: Perfect. Chad Hawley, Sandy Woods. Thanks so much for being on iWork4Him today. Thanks for sharing your story. What a great example of collaboration in the kingdom. It's just so awesome.

And another example of collaboration we want to encourage you, many of you are probably looking for podcasts besides iWork4Him that you can be encouraged directly in your career path in your mountain. Go to the awaken podcast network. com online, awaken podcast network. com, where anyone can find a curated collection of podcasts that speak about faith and work from stay at home moms or running businesses to executives and ceo podcasts. All of them designed to speak directly into your heart. There's categories for artists and women and so much more.

We'd love sharing this resource for you. Awakendpodcastnetwork. com. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him, by going to Iworkforhim. com.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit IWorkForHim. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

8/23/23 - 2004: Put Some Pep in Your Prep

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: As a Jesus follower who is on mission in our workplace mission field, we must prepare ourselves daily for our work. We can't just rush around all morning long, hop in the car, run down the hallway, without being ready for the place God is sending us today. We can't just jump into the driver's seat of our work truck, walk the parking lot of our car dealership, sit in the maintenance shack of our lumberyard, sit in the cab of our heavy equipment, or sit in the driver's seat of our taxi cab without preparing our hearts properly.

Whatever your work is, we can't just rush in and get started. We need to be ready. We need to prepare ourselves. What do you do to prepare yourself to bring Jesus in you to meet others who need to meet Jesus in you on a daily basis? Steve McLean is here today sharing how God has led him to help you prepare daily for your work.

Martha and I might have another few thoughts to add on at the end, but we're super grateful that Steve McLean is here with us today. Steve, welcome to iWork4Him.

Steve McLean: Oh, it's an honor to be here. Absolutely.

Jim: Steve, were you always ready to live out your faith at work?

Steve McLean: Honestly, no. I don't think I really realized that was part of the job. When I first go to work, even though you grow up Christian, you really don't, you don't think of it, at least I didn't think of it as a mission field. But then as I got more and more mature in my faith, it did do that. It did kind of dawn on me. Okay. These guys that I work with, they are my neighbors.

And and I'm supposed to be the light of Christ to them. But then the second obstacle came in where you're thinking, okay, how do I do that? How do I do that without offending people or getting in trouble? And it's awkward. It's been in my heart for many years and I used to do it in some ways that we don't have time to go into, but it didn't work very well. But as I matured in my faith, I was able to get a little better at it., finding out that it's not as hard if you keep a mindset of that workplace, you're not there by mistake.

Martha: So do you have any way that you can pinpoint what actually helped you to look at that differently? What helped you to have a paradigm shift about your workplace mission field?

Steve McLean: It was slow at first. Like I said, it was as I matured, but I'll tell you what really keyed me was I bought a business. I was an engineer by education. I was working in the engineering field, and I went to the dark side and bought a business. And this business had a meeting called FCCI. It was a bunch of, it was like eight, maybe seven, eight businessmen that all sat around the table every week. And they talked about how they made their business a platform. Some of them didn't own businesses. They were just higher managers, but they said that's their platform for ministry. And they invited me to this meeting just to sit in and I'll tell you, that was like, scales falling off my eyes. I was like, wow, this is an absolute integration of who I am on Sunday to Monday.

Martha: So what did that look like then in your new business as you had the scales fall off of your eyes and you probably started to implement some maybe biblical principles in your work? I'm not exactly sure, but what did it look like and how did that change this very business that you bought?

Steve McLean: It gave me a platform. It said, okay, I have a platform. Now I had a platform in the engineering world. I wish I would've used it better, but I wasn't. And that's part of why His Word at Work is out there. It's not just for business owners. It's for anybody that goes to work because we do have a platform no matter where we are.

But what it did for that business is I realized that, wow, there's a lot of latitude to really be able to integrate. And these people that show up every day that are looking at me as an authority figure and listen to me when I speak that a lot of people would never darken the door of a church and here they are every day with me. So I thought, wow, I got a mission. And it just, it was with perfect clarity that FCCI brought that to my attention.

Jim: So you recently quote unquote retired and that could be a whole nother conversation for a whole nother world and another show really. IRetire4Him. Maybe that'd be a good one.

But yet every day, you're spending a couple of hours every day writing a daily devotional, which is shared online at His Word at Work. org. His Word at Work. org. Why did you start doing this?

Steve McLean: First of all, I'm not retired. I sold the business. Now I bought another business and that's why I'm here. And it's definitely not retirement. But to answer your question, the reason I did it is because I believe that there are, I'll bet you 80, 90 percent of the people we sit next to in pews on Sunday, don't know how, or don't even see the mission that they have every day, Monday through Friday. But the people that God placed right next to them, they just don't realize it.

They think that's work. We have this unconscious barrier between our secular and our sacred. And His Word at Work is meant to break through that. Wow. They listen to this and they think, I could do that. And yeah, I am the light in my workplace, and they think of people that claim to be atheists, and they claim to see people that are struggling or they realize they sit right next to somebody that's struggling. And they can be that light and His Word at Work is hopefully a devotional that allows them to really see that. Wow. My Sunday and Monday are not that far apart.

Martha: I know that when you teach things and you write things and you share them with other people, we often learn as we're going through that process, Steve. So for you, how has it impacted yourself as you have been shifting gears from one business to another as you prepare and present His Word at Work?

Steve McLean: I can tell you in all honesty, and I think this is with any Bible teacher or anything, a lot of those are my own struggle. They represent things that, man, I need to remember I'm task oriented. So I go to work and I'm like all about my checklist and I can zoom right by people. So I have to have this mindset when I get up in the morning that, okay, I'm going on mission and all the business stuff I'm going to do today is probably going to be forgotten. It'll probably forgotten next week, let alone next year.

But there's eternal things that God is going to be asking me to do. And having that eternal perspective going in, you start the Bible studies, you stop and you talk to people about whatever is it's going on. You look at people and you try to see them not as employees or a vendor or a customer, but these are divine appointments and that they're in your life on purpose.

There's not a grain of sand that slips through God's fingers, right? We are right where we're supposed to be. And having that mindset, and I'll tell you, His Word at Work puts me in that mindset to go be the person I'm called to be. And I thought, you know what, if the Lord is working on me like this, why not share it? Why not get it out there to the rest of the millions of people that are Christians that are going to work and just give them a little bit of encouragement, maybe some practical advice.

Jim: I love that. And I apologize. I thought you had retired. I didn't know you went off and you had a little bit of break and you bought another business.

Steve McLean: I bought it by mistake. I, it's a long story, but here I am with my son. So that's for some other time.

Jim: That's probably, yeah, that's probably another show. But speaking of all those shows, Martha, I co host, iRetire4Him with my buddy, Bruce Bruinsma. And we talk about that every day retiree. But Steve, they got the same issue. They're trying to realize how do they take their daily retirement and make it matter for God? Because when, if you're not dead, God's not done with you yet. I always like to say, if you're not dead, God's not done. And your calling doesn't retire when you do. And so many people have a misperception about that.

On a bi weekly basis, we release the, iRetire4Him podcast. And you can go out to iWork4Him. com and just click on the iRetire4Him logo and check out that podcast or subscribe to it on any of your favorite podcast platforms. But we all will put in the show notes how you can listen to iRetire4Him. In case you do retire, just know God's not done with you yet til your last breath.

Martha: Thanks for sharing that, Jim. Steve, it's one thing to write daily devotionals and put them out there on the web, but it's another thing to know that they're impacting other lives. And today, you invited a few of your friends who read the daily devotional to share how they're being impacted each and every day. And so we have Josh and Mike that are both joining us for this section of the show, and I want to welcome both of them to the show as they're getting their cameras on and joining us so we can just continue this conversation because there's nothing better than getting the feedback from the people that are actually ingesting and allowing God to work in their lives. So Josh and michael. Thank you both so much for joining us.

Jim: So Mike, what I love about this fact and those of you guys watching on video just understand now, I just learned right before the show that Mike is actually Steve's mentor and Steve is actually Josh's mentor. And so you're looking at a generational mentoring, which is what everybody needs: a paul, a barnabas, and a Timothy in their life. And this is a great example of it. Thanks for living that out gentlemen. Yes, because we need to be pouring into ourselves intergenerationally. So I love it. So Mike, are you retired? Are you still working?

Michael Etchison: I'm still working. I'm in the commercial real estate business. And like Steve I think that this platform has been God ordained for me to be able to use the connections I make in my work to be a light and salt and have the opportunity to share the gospel. I like what Paul said, about how the fact that each of us are living letters known and read of all men. And I think that's sometimes , means we, we need to be I can't remember who wrote it, but, preach the gospel all the time, and if necessary, use words.

Sometimes, you get questions. Why are you this way? And yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I don't feel like retirement's in the scriptures. And I just I like the platform because it gives me an opportunity to still be active, proactive in the gospel every day. I

Martha: Love that. It's helping you to be proactive. You want me to go back and forth?

Okay. Josh, tell us a little bit about your work, and maybe you can also tell us how you found out about his Word at Work.

Joshua Claro: I am working at Kennedy space center currently. I've been there for about five weeks, five weeks this week. I'm very new to my new position. Right now, that is just His Word at Work is doing awesome because it really gets you in the mindset of getting into the workplace and having God really know what your mission field is. And Steve has been my mentor for a while, and when he started telling me about these devotionals and he signed me up for it automatically so I listen to him every day.

Jim: He needed at least one person signed up!

Joshua Claro: Yeah, or I'll let them stack up and then listen to them consecutively. But I'll really save the ones that really are impactful to me. And so Steve is awesome because he has the real world experience because I'm living in that every day and there's a battlefield every day with a negativity and there's just, God isn't really, especially in space, like people forget who the creator is shockingly, and they just can't fathom like all this stuff was made by God. So when you bring it back into the reality of things, really the mission field is great

Jim: Yeah, it's hard to believe that anybody can look out in space and now that we've got telescopes. When we were kids, nobody knew what those stars looked like. Today we know what stars look like four billion light years from now and you're like the complexity of the universe and the dark space, they're all trying to figure out what's this dark space holding everything together. Maybe the hand of God! I love the fact that you guys have both highlighted His Word at Work in a couple of different fashions.

And again, listeners, if you want to get signed up for this, I get this devotion every day, His Word at Work. org, it comes in written form. And as Josh just said to that, it comes in video form. You can listen to Steve, read that daily devotional. So in case you're shaving or getting dressed and you want to listen to it, or maybe you're driving your car and you want to listen to it, you can get it either way. And that's just super, super powerful.

Mike, I love the fact that you're In commercial real estate, you're still pounding it every day. How does getting these daily devotionals and your interaction with Steve - because you got a guy that's younger than you that you're pouring into each other because that's what mentoring is all about is pouring into each other - how does it prepare you for those unexpected conversations you have during the day when you're dealing with clients or prospective clients?

Michael Etchison: I think, wonderfully, that Steve has a variety every day. It's some different topic every day that he's giving you to think about. And I think when we really learn how to daily walk in the Spirit and be led by the Holy Spirit, your sensitivity level is up so that you are looking for those opportunities, not only because people might ask you, but you might just feel prompted by him to say something that you wouldn't normally say.

And I do this often with clients, I'm just, wondering, or if it's not a client, it's somebody that's actually looking at a property that my client has me showing for lease or for sale. And I think His Word at Work is so good because it gives you verses of scripture. And as Steve can tell you, I've been a proponent for decades of memorizing scripture. And it just is so powerful when you have it memorized, the Holy Spirit can call it your remembrance, give you the very thing that you need to say, and I long ago realized that my words aren't living and active, but if I quote the scriptures, God's going to do something because of that word going out from my mouth to others.

And so I really like that for that reason, and I have a lot of my family and friends that, that listen or read his devotional every day, and I think it's also special because when Steve and I started talking about it, he has a special gifting, that God gave him that. And I think that's just wonderful that he's sharing that every day, and I try and tell him that regularly.

Martha: Josh, for you I see this opportunity with you being in a new position to really be intentional about the things that are ahead of you and each and every day's interaction. Has there been anything that has come up for you? Since you've been in your new position where you're like, huh, I'm going to be challenged in that area today because I was paying attention to it.

Joshua Claro: Oh, yeah, there is. So Steve can contest to this and my previous position in my other job I had. Some senior guys that were there and they have a way of just bringing the old ways around and the old culture. And for me I'm very fast and innovative and they don't like change. They immediately start pushing back on that change or what I have to do. It's the same thing here. It hasn't changed. So I'm really praying to God about this time. I know I'll be having a lot of discussions with Steve now about this where it's extremely challenging. So God has me saying some things and maybe doing some things when the opportunity comes to change that perspective of what I see, but I'm going to let the Holy spirit really work in it and see what happens.

And I'm fearless at this point. Even before I care but I don't care at this way, because I know God has my back. And I know that if I do it in his name, and even if I lose my job, that's why I say fearless, it's because he doesn't want me there and I don't need to be there if this is how it's going to be.

Steve McLean: Josh has led Bible studies at his work. He's taught a course called every man a warrior. So he already uses his presence in the workplace really well. He's not mentioning any of that. He's mentioned the problems, but we all have people around us that are like, it's hard to deal with. And that gives us opportunity because many of those people, they just do not know God, that God is not on their radar. And yeah, he works in the space industry where I used to work and I know how those guys are very closed off to change, but it's still an awesome platform. And like he said, believe it or not, there's a lot that deny God, and I remember a quote by Abraham Lincoln that says that he can understand how you can look down on the earth and be an atheist, but he has no idea how man can look to the stars and say, there's no God in the aerospace world.

Jim: And Abraham Lincoln didn't know what was behind those stars. Just like Abraham Lincoln didn't know what was behind those stars, and now we know, the complexity is unbelievable. What I love is that you guys just really brought up is probably a lot of people listening today going, but how do I start? How do I start my workplace mission field? What is the first step I do in order to make my work in my mind a mission field?

And we've got this thing we call the iWork4Him nation covenant, which you go on our website, just look up the iWork4Him nation. And it just starts five simple steps, but it starts with praying for the people that you work alongside by name every day, to start praying for them.

Don't tell them anything about Jesus, just pray for them, but then look for ways to serve them over and above what you are required to do with your job. Look for ways to befriend them outside of the workplace because real relationship builds outside of the workplace. But then look for ways to pray with people when you notice they're having a rough day. But all along you've got to be a person of excellence. Everything you do needs to be defined by excellence in your job so that when you do those other things they really make a difference. But it starts with praying for those people that you work alongside.

I love the fact, Steve, you've released, do you have a whole year written out? 365 of these?

Steve McLean: I probably have more than that, but then I go back and watch them. I'm like, Oh, I got to redo that. So I keep taking them down and improving them, but I don't know how many are out there.

Jim: We encourage everybody to go out to His Word at Work dot org and subscribe. But I was going to tell you that this week on our power thoughts - iWork4Him PowerThoughts, which you can subscribe on any podcast platform. Also see them on facebook. They're on radio stations across the country. Our one minute power thoughts are featuring five of Steve's devotionals where I just took the written part and took just 45 seconds of the most powerful words of them. And we read it for you and told everybody how to get to the whole devotional out there on the power thought. So on our power thought and with a link to His Word at Work. So Steve, just want to let you know, trying to get the word out across the country about what you guys are doing.

Martha: And if any of the topics change, Josh, he might be targeting some of those to help you a little bit along the journey. That would be an extra benefit, right?

Jim: So it's great when we learn about how others are consuming content and some content makes a huge difference in our lives. And we love to hear from you guys, our listeners, reach out to us on our contact us page, let us know what God is doing in your workplace mission field. We love to hear from you. iWork4Him. com. That's, I work the number for him. com forward slash contact.

Martha: Steve, as Jim mentioned, the title for this week of our show is Preparing Ourselves for Our Work. And so our blog this week focused on that very subject. And then we took parts of your devotionals and put those into our Power Thoughts for the week. So getting a whole opportunity to really focus on preparing ourselves for work. So what did you do to prepare you yourself and your heart for work?

Steve McLean: I, the Holy Spirit lately has been talking about, talking to me about really being a follower. It's one thing to be a believer, but it's a whole nother thing to be a follower, right? I just got back from Israel, where this guy that lived out in the desert, he still herds sheep and goats. It just stuck with me. He said, sheep are pretty easy to herd. Goats do what they want. The sheep will listen to the voice of the shepherd and follow. The goats, just do what they want.

And I don't want to be a goat. So I get up every morning. I say, Lord, let me follow you. Wherever you lead me, let my eyes be open. So I start with a prayer that says, I just want to follow you, Lord. So please don't let me run off in some crazy direction. And then you have to pick up the pieces for me. Let me follow. And then basically I get into scripture and try to get my mind wrapped around the word of God and just try to keep my task oriented mind, people oriented. It's the people in the end, it's going to count, and the things we do for the kingdom, that's all that's going to be remembered in eternity.

All that task list, ain't going to be remembered, even if I do it great. And it's not going to be remembered. So that's what I do. I try to get my mind wrapped around God's mission for me and me following.

Jim: Josh, what about you? How do you prepare yourself daily besides listening to Steve's great devotionals at hiswordatwork. org? What else do you do?

Joshua Claro: I do quiet times in the morning about 10 15, 20 minutes with God and go through the Bible and meditate on his word and stuff like that. And before I go into my workplace, I really, I pray for about two or three minutes asking him for really me to be a servant for him and to put someone in my path that I need to shine some light on and that's really how I start.

But like Steve, Steve hit it on the nose. We're very task oriented. And when you get in that mindset, it's really hard to pivot. It's extremely hard to pivot because you just go down the hole. You want to solve the problems, but then to be people oriented is a different mindset. And that's where I'm really trying with this new chapter in my life that God has given me and my family to really be more people oriented.

Martha: That's a really good word. And Mike, finally, you give us a little peek into what you do to prepare for your work each and every day.

Michael Etchison: Similarly I have a quiet time. I think as I looked at the outline before our meeting today, I was thinking of a verse that really in the last probably year and a half, and of course, I have a couple of guys that are on a real estate team with me. All family members. I have a nephew and a son and now a grandson. And I love the concept of Psalm 32:8 where it says, I will teach you in the way you should go and counsel you with my eye upon you.

That's pretty comforting because much has been said so far. Some days we just don't really know what we're supposed to do with other people because we are task oriented. And when we can sense that he really is counseling us with his eye upon us, that kind of makes a little bit of a difference for me. Anyway, I'm thinking about it. I know you're watching me, Lord, so help me not to step my foot in my mouth or say the wrong thing and be a servant. And I think that's a rare thing today, particularly in the workplace, is having a mentality and an attitude that I'm going to be, I'm going to figure out some way that I can serve this person and make their encounter with me a difference maker. So that's been helpful for me a lot.

Jim: Yeah, it's so important for us to recognize that our savior was always busy, but he was never in a hurry. He never missed the people that were near him and we need to reproduce that all the time. I want to thank Steve with your devotionals. Thank you for Mike and Josh for sharing your stories today. Martha?

Martha: We have shared so many resources on today's episode, and I will have the links to all of those in the show notes for everybody to make it super easy. But there's one more resource that I want to make you all familiar with. And with a donation of any size to iWork4Him, we will send you one of the copies of one of our books. We have iWork4Him, iRetire4Him, and SheWorks4Him. You can go to the iWork4Him. com forward slash donate, and when you send a check to that address or make a donation online, we would be happy to send you a copy of our book.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers and our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, Live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

8/16/23 - 2003: Don't Quit Your Day Job

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Perhaps the single most devastating sentence I ever hear is this: I've decided to quit my job and go into full time ministry. This one sentence describes the condition of the hearts and minds of millions of workplace Christians. It is a misunderstanding that stops today. You don't need to quit your job to go into full time ministry. You are already a full time, fully funded, fully trained missionary.

You are fully equipped and fully enabled to enter your mission field. You understand the language and the culture and you already love the people. Your mission as a Jesus follower - everything about you has been changing and everyone around you is now benefiting from your faith. Whether they believe in Jesus or not. May your vibrant faith pave the way into life transforming conversations as you love your neighbor on your workplace mission field. Today We're going to go deeper into this conversation with Mark Whitacre. Mark is the VP of Culture and Care with Coca Cola Consolidating and the Executive Director with T Factor. Mark, thanks for joining us today. It's been a few years.

Mark, when you got out of prison, where you became a follower of Jesus, and God allowed you to start life all over again, did you struggle with the thoughts of wanting to work in full time ministry?

Mark Whitacre: I tell ya, I didn't. I was discipled by two guys. One named Ian Howells and the other one by Chuck Colson. And during that discipleship, man, and they were telling me often that there's no better place for ministry than the workplace and Chuck Colson even shared examples with me. For example, Jesus is in scripture 132 times, 132 times publicly in scripture and out of those publicly places, 122, 92 percent of his public appearances were in the Marketplace.

So as Chuck said, there's no better place, even Jesus showed us, for ministry, than the workplace, because that's where the lost are, and that's where the people are. Even the twelve disciples, all came from the Marketplace, and after Jesus discipled them for three years, they went back in the Marketplace to share the truth, to share the good news.

Martha: Mark, you are so blessed to have had that kind of discipleship and training, wisdom being spoken into you. But in fact, there was a time then that you transitioned into the nonprofit space. So what did it feel like for you then to then be in what everybody else considers full time ministry?

Mark Whitacre: Even when I joined, I got out a couple decades ago, out of prison and I joined a biotech company, but it was a faith based company, a Christian CEO. And we had prayer groups and Bible studies and doing it God's way. And then I joined CBMC, Christian Businessmen Connection. I was there almost eight years where we equipped other leaders to do the same, but it was really to equip business leaders to show them just like what you described, that there's no better place for ministry than the workplace itself. And I was blessed to hear that starting about 25 years ago during being discipled.

Jim: It's such a gift because so many of everybody listening and us on the show never heard that message. We weren't discipled that way. And it always felt like we were second tier. It always felt like we just weren't as important in the kingdom as those people who are called into full time ministry. So grateful that God enabled you to be ministered to in that fashion and to be discipled in that fashion. Now you're back in the Marketplace as the chief culture officer for Coca Cola Consolidating and the executive director for T Factor.

How did this move put you back in the trenches and right on the mission field?

Mark Whitacre: And I want to really emphasize, Martha and Jim, that you are so right. Even our CEO, 23 years ago, When he became chairman and CEO, he was told that don't bring your faith to work. Don't pray, don't have prayer groups, don't have chaplaincy.

And he really looked into that and saw how untrue that is. It's Satan's biggest lie to try to tell us that we can't be on mission. We can't be missionaries in the Marketplace. And he found out how untrue that is. And so for 23 years now, we have chaplaincy, we have prayer groups, we have Bible studies, over a hundred Bible studies, and it has transformed our culture, it's changed our retention rates, our absenteeism, we do it for God.

Actually, our official purpose statement is to honor God in all we do by serving others, pursuing excellence and growing profitably. We do it for God, but God blesses our business in turn. And we'll have over 3, 000 CEOs and senior leaders at our T Factor events just this year, at nine events.

And it's amazing. Almost all of them, literally 95 percent plus thought they could not be missionaries in their workplace. They thought what you were sharing just a few minutes ago, that you can't bring your faith to work and you have to quit your job to go into into ministry. And T Factors really opened a lot of their eyes that they can, and they actually are, and there's actually no better place for ministry than right where we work.

Martha: And that's why we love to talk to people like you, Mark, that are really living that out, that are showing, paying it forward, in a sense, by telling other people what you learned, that your workplace is a mission field, no matter what it looks like. No matter what that mission field workplace is, it is the place where they can share Jesus and the light of Christ, really.

Jim: It's just so important that we recognize. For us, it was, we had a call in our lives that was to full time Christian ministry. We committed ourselves to that. We just didn't understand that was as entrepreneurs, as people in the Marketplace. And it was so important for us to make that transition, but it took us 20 years of working to understand that's what the call was.

And Mark, I want to make sure everybody listening today understands. You don't need to quit your job to go into full time ministry. All you need to do is shift the thinking of your mind. You need to do a Romans 12: 2 kind of thing. Change the way you think because God wants to use you right where you're at, And Martha, we don't want to make today's show about us. If you want to hear more of our story, you can read it in our books. You'll go to iWork4Him iWork4Him. com forward slash bookstore and Get a copy of our iWork4Him book where Martha And I write our story and also write a lot of encouragement to you for living out your faith in your work.

Martha: That was well said, Jim, because, we are excited to be able to share with others the journey we've been on, but today, Mark, we are talking about the journey that not only you have had, but the people that you have helped to train and to disciple in all the different ways to understand that their workplace is their mission field. So how do you respond? When people say to you, Oh, I've decided to quit my job and go into full time ministry. What would your response to that question be or comment?

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, my response is quick and it's you're already in ministry. And there's no better place just like Jesus showed us. There's no better place for ministry than the Marketplace. After Jesus discipled Peter, he didn't quit being a fisherman and go do something else in ministry. Peter got back on that boat at the Sea of Galilee and he was fishing to make a living, but in addition to fishing and making a living, he was also fishing for men and sharing the good news and sharing the gospel.

And when you really look at Matthew 28: 19, it's not really go and make disciples. If you really look at the translation in detail, it's as you go. Go and make disciples of all nations. That means as we do our work. Just at Coca Cola Consolidating alone, we have 17, 000 employees. Just in 2022 alone we had 557 salvations and recommitments. The year prior it was 644 salvations. That's almost 600 salvations and recommits per year.

There's no better place. I don't even know of a church that's having that many salvations and recommits, I think there's no better place than the workplace. There's no better place really for ministry than the workplace itself.

Jim: So you operate within a company, Coca Cola Consolidating, which is kingdom focused for sure, but publicly traded a fortune 500. It's probably more like a fortune 100 company. I forgot to look that up. Sorry, you got 104 locations, as you said 17 000 employees So we're going to talk about T Factor in a second, but each one of those employees, 17 000 employees, how do you help them to understand the significance of their workplace mission field?

Mark Whitacre: We do this when we onboard them, that we really emphasize our purpose statement, which I mentioned earlier is to honor God in all we do by serving others and pursuing excellence and growing profitably. And then we say, you don't have to be a Christian to work here. To be honest with you, we pray that a lot of them's not because we want to expose it.

It's an outreach opportunity. We want to expose them to God and introduce them to God. So we say, you don't have to believe in God to join us, but our 10 values, those are non negotiable, which is accountability, morality, integrity. And so there's 10 values are non negotiable, but once they join our company, they see our purpose statement lived out loud.

They see a chaplain in every plant site. That's full time. They see over a hundred prayer groups and Bible studies and each corner there's a Bible study ongoing or a prayer group. And they say, Hey, what's that? What's going on there? And they get just to the actions of their leaders that are listening carefully that have empathy for them.

Our leadership training is scripture based. It's called LEADS. L for listen, E for empathy. A for to be an advocate for your employees. D to help your employees develop. S for self reflection and prayer. These are scripture based leadership training. And when they have supervisors that are listening to them carefully, have empathy for them and their family, they just see through their action that something's different going on here and they start exploring God. And many of them become Christians in this journey.

Martha: You know what I love, Mark, about hearing, not only your excitement for Coca Cola Consolidating and all that, God has opened the doors for you as a company to understand your lane that you're in, but your leadership has defined all of these things that you want to do for your employees, to show them Jesus Christ and the love that he has.

You've done something really amazing, and we want to just highlight that for just a little bit, and that is through T Factor, which really is this outward way for you to show others what Coca Cola Consolidating is doing because God has shown you those things to do. So talk about that for a minute and explain that.

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, the mission of T Factor, which really is just the internal, it's really how we share what we're doing internally, where we share with the world. And the mission statement of T Factor is to transform workplace cultures around the globe for good, for God and for growth. And we actually have over 3000 leaders just attending this year.

And these are CEOs and senior leaders, Christian CEOs and senior leaders, where they can come and attend and get a flavor and get a firsthand glance of what we're doing internally, where they can go implement some of these things in their own companies to integrate faith and become a purpose driven company and see that their company really is a ministry. We're a beverage company. We're really a ministry that happens to be in the beverage business.

Martha: So when people come to that half day event, we're going to talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But what kind of impacts are you seeing? What kind of results are you hearing from people when they attend?

Mark Whitacre: Yeah, at this point, we've talked to, actually done surveys with over 2000 people over the last five years that have attended T Factor. And we've learned that 68 percent of our attendees implement something different in their company that they didn't do before after they attend T Factor, within 90 days. And prayer groups probably the is the most immediate because that's a fairly simple to do and then bible studies, many of them hire chaplains and start having chaplaincy in their company there. They start increasing their giving .And they start putting God in their purpose statement. But 68 percent implement something from T Factor within 90 days.

Jim: So we got a chance to attend your T Factor event just recently. And there was, it was amazing of all the different people you had from within your organization that shared about how you've implemented T Factor within your organization and really T Factor just shows how you impacted culture within Coca Cola Consolidating. Yes, you had the CEO, but you also had people from multiple different layers within the company share about this is what it looks like.

What are some of the highlights people would see or hear if they attended the next T Factor event? Just give me a couple of them.

Mark Whitacre: They hear from some of our top leadership. They hear from our CEO and chairman, Frank Harrison, where he shares the vision that God put on his heart over 23 years ago, that Coca Cola Consolidating it's God's company and he is chairman and CEO, is a steward of that company. So they hear from him. Then they hear from David Katz, our COO, how we implement it within the organization. They will hear from legal, from two key legal corporate lawyers that share by how all this is legal. You can't force someone to see a chaplain. You can't force someone to become a part of a prayer group. As long as you make it optional, it's legal.

Jim: Wait a minute. Wait. You're inviting people to come to a half day event and you're going to bring lawyers on?

Mark Whitacre: It's critical. And that's been one of the most impactful sessions where people see this is because a lot of these companies are told from their legal department or HR department that they can't do this. So we share that this is Satan's biggest lie. And then they hear from our vice president of HR from human resources, how we do onboarding when you're hiring many of those non Christians in a company that's faith based and purpose driven, how we do that. And then they hear from our giving department, how it's changed our giving and much higher than the average publicly traded companies giving is and we give to nonprofits that have Jesus included when a lot of publicly companies would not give to nonprofits that have Jesus included.

Then they hear from a chaplaincy, the president of corporate chaplains of America and he'll share, the impact of chaplaincy on our culture. And we'll share about the retention rates and the absenteeism, basically the impact this has. Our employees are more, our teammates are more engaged by having a culture that cares for them.

Jim: It's so powerful. And as you listen to this podcast, in a little bit we're going to tell you how you can get signed up for the next T Factor event through an email to either Martha or myself. But Mark, we're just so grateful that as a publicly traded company, Coca Cola Consolidating with 104 locations and 17, 000 employees has seen fit to shape your culture around Jesus, to give people hope.

Hundreds and thousands of people over the last several years have met Jesus, but also are experiencing a positive work environment. And you're telling people that just because we're traded on the NASDAQ, doesn't mean we can't honor Jesus with our work. And that is a message that needs to go out across the country. And we're just so excited about that.

Martha: One of the things that we love is telling stories and being able to encourage people with what we're hearing, and that's why we get to hear from you, Mark, and what God's done in your life and all of the employees. And we're going to, Jim, in the show notes a little bit later, we're going to encourage people to email you for something, but I just want to remind people that there are a lot of ways to get a hold of us.

So go to our website, iWork4Him. com, and you can see all the different ways to stay connected to our show. Most importantly, if you have some feedback or something that you want to share with us, go to our contact page and reach out to us with an email. There is nothing more precious than when we hear from the listeners and maybe what God is doing in your life or how this show is challenging you to something new in your own workplace, seeing it as your mission field. So I encourage you to reach out to us on our contact page.

Mark Whitacre: I want to emphasize, iWork4Him as a partner of Coca Cola Consolidating's T Factor and we are grateful for that partnership opportunity. We're grateful for what Martha and Jim do, and we are blessed tremendously by the things that they do in the Marketplace about exposing that there's nothing more important than having Jesus at the center of our work.

Jim: Amen to that. Mark, I'm sure that if we said, hey, give us some highlight stories from past T Factor events, you could come up with thousands of them. Do you have a favorite story?

Mark Whitacre: Yes, one of my favorite stories is CEO Richard Williams. He's CEO of Lenage. He's in six different states. He attended T Factor, and he's been one of our most engaged participants.

We've become wonderful friends also. And the story about how T Factor's impacted him and what he's done since then has been remarkable.

Jim: We'd like to welcome Richard Williams to the iWork4Him podcast. Richard, thanks for being with us today.

Richard Williams: Thank you, Jim and Martha for having me.

Jim: Oh we can't wait to hear your story. It just, oh yeah, you guys long time connected, I'm sure. Richard, Why don't you to start us off with how did you hear about T Factor?

Richard Williams: I heard about T Factor, I heard rumors about it because they're in the same city that I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I heard about it specifically through C12, which is a Christian CEO's group that I belong to here in Charlotte.

Martha: And when you heard about it, what was it that made you decide that you wanted to be an attendee?

Richard Williams: When I decided to bring God into my business six years ago, I know about Hobby Lobby and their story and Chick fil A and those, but Coca Cola Consolidating was in my backyard and I knew their story and I went to their website and I went to Movement Mortgage's website, which is also my backyard.

And I'm like, if they can live with God in their company, I can do it too. And so as we were transforming in that way in my company, six years ago, I showed those two companies in particular. And so I have to say I was biased and really wanted to go to the T Factor because it was put on by a company that I had a great respect for and I wanted to learn about what was the T Factor and what did it have to offer for me?

Martha: So when you went on that very first day do you remember what your biggest takeaway was right away after attending?

Richard Williams: Sure. There's a couple things that I remember from that first day. One is really how bold their CEO is for Christ. Frank, I think he must have used about 17 or 18 Bible verses in his conversation. And I'm like, he is so bold for Christ. So I was energized by that to start. Secondly chaplaincy. We were in the beginning stages of bringing chaplaincy into my company. We were a newer company to having God as part of our company and being the leader of it and me stewarding it. And people in my leadership team just couldn't understand how we could even have chaplaincy and a Christian business.

That was foreign to them. And so that was a big takeaway of we can have it and I pointed our leadership team back to that I'm like if Coca Cola Consolidating can have it with 17 000 employees my company with 150 employees can have it.

Jim: So as the leader of Lineage, found online at trust lineage. com, You saw that initial impact. A couple things to just take away from day one. But now it's been a lot of years. Over time, how has attending a T Factor event impacted the culture and really the overall vision and execution of what Lineage does on a day to day basis?

Richard Williams: Sure. So one of the things that we do is when we hire new leaders, I send them to T Factor. Because many of my employees come out of the secular world where they've never been exposed to this way of living before. And so I, they know where I stand, but I want them to see a company that's much bigger, much larger, and publicly traded, that's living for Jesus in the different ways, whether that be Bible study, prayer, chaplaincy, second chance ministries.

So it gives them a chance to see from somebody else's point of view. And also a company that's further along in their walk. We're at six years in our walk now. They're at 23. So they're quite a bit ahead of us in many respects.

Jim: Before we get on the next, which you said something a little bit ago, I want to go back to it for a second. You said, I just, when I decided to bring God into my business, what was that catalytic event that said oh, I got something off. I need to let God into this? What was it that triggered you to understand that was so critical to what you were doing?

Richard Williams: We could spend 35, 40 minutes talking about that offline but the short version is this: I didn't want to just live my faith on Sunday anymore. I want to live it seven days a week and I wanted my faith life to be in alignment with my work life. And so I didn't want to have two different lives, a secular life and a faith life. I wanted them to be one. That's the super short version of that.

Martha: And so many times it's the Holy Spirit working in our lives that gets us to that point, and we never know who's going to be around to help us with that process. But thankfully you got exposed to T Factor and that really helped you with that transition. I would love to hear how attending T Factor and implementing some of the things that you've learned, how it personally has affected your leadership.

Richard Williams: Sure. I think how T Factors personally affected my leadership is, we know what the rules of the road are, right? We know what the boundaries are, so that's helpful to know as we know we can be bold for Christ. We can have Bible study and prayer, but you also have to be thoughtful within that, right?

What they'll talk about in T Factor is you can't just knee jerk a reaction about something that's a hot topic or a hot subject matter. You have to be thoughtful because having sloppy agape or sloppy Jesus, if you will, leads to problems. So you want to be thoughtful and that came through in the T Factor and we've had some of those things come up, what would we do if this happened or that happened?

And we took our time and we thought about it from a legal perspective. And, I've reached out to my friends at Coca Cola Consolidator or to Mark, say how would you handle this? Or what does that look like? To understand, because when you take your time and make a decision by using your brain and just not emotion, you keep yourself in a much better place. It's been a good impact.

Jim: It's fabulous. Thank you for sharing that Richard. How would you say T Factor has impacted your organization? Where's the biggest impact from? Really allowing T Factor to infiltrate the culture of your organization, the very mission of your organization - what's the biggest impact in your organization to date?

Richard Williams: I think you have to go to chaplaincy first, and the reason I say that is for this reason: you're either in a crisis, going into one, or coming out of one, and we have faced some major crises. I hope I don't choke up, because this one's pretty recent. Like last week we faced major crises in my business, and we have a way to care for our people when these things happen, for our chaplaincy and our caring culture.

Last week, one of my employee's children committed suicide. And it's a difficult and heavy subject matter. It's the second time my company has dealt with this since we've had Chaplaincy in the last three or four years. That's the impact. To be able to come alongside somebody at the worst possible thing that you could ever put on a parent and to be able to be there for them in a loving and caring way. And to have the ability to do it well. Because you've learned where the boundaries are. You've learned what you can bring to the table. And caring for your employees. And that God can be in your company. You can have chaplains and you can pray for the people very openly. That's the impact.

Martha: What a hard time for your organization as a whole, but to have that in place and to know that relationships are there to strengthen and encourage along the way. I know we've talked to so many people over time that have said, I don't have a pastor, but I have this chaplain at my work. And what a gap that you're filling as a part of the mission of your business that you are running and i'm so grateful that you've taken that step and you had that. i'm sure you're grateful to have it in place for such a time as this.

Jim: Let me just ask let me just ask one of those business questions. So implementing all the stuff you learn at T Factor, did it hurt your bottom line?

Richard Williams: No, it has helped it significantly. Our revenues in the last seven years are up by 50 percent. Our profits are up. When the pandemic hit, we had a lot better retention rate than people in our industry, significantly better. So running a company that bold for Christ, that lives on his principles, and that cares for their employees and brings chaplaincy along to support people is attractive to both Christians and non Christians if done the right way.

Jim: Richard Williams, I love that you shared that. I knew the answer without even knowing because I hadn't talked to you before, but I knew that. This is not a penalty by doing these things. It makes it a better place to work. And when you have, when your employees are feeling better about where they work, it impacts the customers, the vendors, it impacts the products that you produce, the services that you provide and all in a positive way.

Mark, if our listeners, our leaders of organizations, how can they attend the next T Factor event?

Mark Whitacre: Yes, they can. We just had one in June. The next one, September 7th. And then after that, it'd be December 7th. Then we do some in person ones too, and getting ready to do one on September 19th in Tucson in person. So both virtual and in person. About a third of our audience of our virtual events are from, we've had 72 countries. attend T Factor just in the last three years and averages 25 countries per event or virtual event. So these are leaders from around the world. And yes, we'd love to have them and share this journey that we've been talking about here today.

Martha: So that's done through a personal invitation from you, Mark. So what we want to encourage our listeners to do is to email Jim at iWork4Him. com Jim at iWork4Him. com. We'll have that in our show notes. Easy to find and tell him that you're interested and he will make that connection so you can get a personal invite from Mark. And we're so grateful that you're willing to do that, Mark, and spread the word about T Factor. And we hope that people will prayerfully consider getting involved in doing like what Richard talked about, bringing God into their work and getting some help to do it well.

Jim: I Just want to ask Mark, any final thoughts? Any reaction to what Richard had to say, anything you want to close us out with before we close out the show?

Mark Whitacre: I agree fully with Richard. When people know you care, they get more engaged. They're more productive. The retention rates become higher and their turnover becomes lower. The absenteeism becomes lower. It's you do it for God, but it's also good for your business. I think if secular companies saw what was going on they would want to do a lot of this to improve their bottom line. And I remember when covid hit, our people were working overtime. We're the largest bottler and coke bottler in america, and a lot of our people working overtime. But a lot of their spouses lost their position because they worked at a restaurant or a cinema or a university, some of the things that were closed down and went remote. And a lot of those lost their positions and, they still had mortgage to pay and college tuition to pay.

And we put a benevolence fund together and helped cover hundreds of our teammates' families, when they went from a two income family to one income family. And keep in mind we were supporting when that was when someone wasn't even working for Coke that lost their job. The Coke employer was working overtime. It was their spouse that didn't work for Coca Cola Consolidating that lost her position. But God led us to, to really assist these families financially where they could meet all their needs. And it was hundreds of them.

Jim: What a great opportunity.

Martha: I just think about the fact that all of that was possible because Romans 12: 2, one of our favorite verses where it says, don't copy the behaviors and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think.

And the leadership and organizations all over the world are allowing God to change the way they think about their work. And we hope that our listeners have been able to do that today, too. And see, let God transform you and change the way you think about your faith at work.

Jim: And you might want to check out T Factor online for yourself, T Factor. com, T Factor. com. That'll get you some more information. And if you'd like that personal invite, just email iwork4him. com, jim at iwork4him. com. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace is our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

8/9/23 - 2002: Is It OK to Pay People to Pray?

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: We're talking today about the power of prayer at work. Why are we talking about this? Because prayer changes things. Why on earth wouldn't we involve God in our work? God created work as a gift for us and already knows the answers to our questions and the solutions to our problems. If we would only ask him. So on iWork4Him today we're going to talk about the power of prayer at work and then hear from some organizational leaders who are using prayer Intercessors as key staff members as they operate their business for Christ.

Guess what? We use them too! Scott Flora joins us today from Coreign, a marketplace focused prayer intercessory company. He's joined by David Mckay. David and his wife Karen own HMK company out of Salem, Oregon and uses Coreign as their prayer intercessor. Scott, Thanks for joining us today on iWork4Him.

Scott Flora: It is my pleasure. Thank you very much. I'm excited about our conversation today.

Jim: Let's hope that you still will be when we're all done! So Scott, where did the idea come from of having a business that prayed for other companies?

Scott Flora: I've been in the prayer, house of prayer, culture of prayer, communities of prayer, something that we used to call praying missional communities, since 2009, really. And I had someone approach me to begin with that really had a vision for prayer to be a part of their God assignment, and they owned several businesses, but one of the things that they really felt that they wanted prayer for was their NASCAR.

And so they came and they said, Hey, we want to have a whole bunch of things that are going on. Will you pray with us and for us for our not NASCAR? When I first heard the idea, I was completely turned off to it. I actually said, no, that feels witchcrafty. No way. And then over the next few months, the Lord dealt with my heart, took me on a deep dive Bible study through the Word of God on what prayer does and where prayer really connects to kingdom assignments and all of that.

And I went back to him and I said, Hey, I would love to figure out how this looks. And so for the next few years we dabbled a little bit with ones and twos, and we had two or three or four and as the story unfolds with every kingdom assignment, the Lord led me to create a discipleship training school that had a bunch of young adults in transition either out of high school or in between college or after college. And I had 20 20 year olds living with me and doing life and prayer room and missions and evangelism and all that.

And I needed a practical tool to connect them to the value and the authority to prayer, to how we're shaping the world around us. I reached out to my ones or two little marketplace partners that I had, and I said, I want to invite our students into this relationship. And so we created a training tool. And training tool developed into a global ministry that is now touching over 80 nations.

Jim: Wow, so let me just get this straight though. So you thought it was weird that a group from nascar, they have a driver driving 200 miles an hour three feet from the guy in front of them, you thought it was weird that they wanted prayer?

Scott Flora: Yeah, that they would pay for it!

Jim: Seriously, when you're driving 200 miles, not that you and I get a chance to do that, but it seems like prayer would be a natural thing. I'd be doing a lot of praying if I was driving 200 miles an hour, three feet from the guy in front of me. I don't know. Sorry, Martha. Go ahead.

Martha: No, but that does really lead into the next question I want to ask Scott because a lot of people, yes, we ask our friends, our neighbors, our pastor, people in our Sunday school class to pray for us. But you're talking about it at a whole different level, where it's actually, you're employing, or contracting, or paying, however you want to say it, someone to come alongside and pray on behalf of a specific organization.

So walk us through that, because I would guess that there are more people listening to this podcast that would question that than there are people that would say of course! So we're exposing this and talking about it so we can better understand it. Is it okay to pay people to pray? What's that whole thought process?

Scott Flora: Yeah on my website, Coreign. org, I have a series of videos where I go into all of these, and it's actually a paradigm shift that the Lord is actually inviting the body of Christ to. So it's not necessarily about - the question that should be asked here is not about, is it okay to pay someone to pray? But a laborer is worth his wages. So it's really about collaboration and gleaning from other people's skills and expertise so that we can go further together, and every collaborative covenant relationship is bound together by two things. The word of mouth. Our word, we actually say it out loud. I'm covenanting in relationship with you, to link arms with you and do something that you can't do to the level of excellence that I could bring my expertise to the table and we could do it better together.

And then the other thing that seals every covenant relationship is a financial obligation. You look at it all the way through scripture, it was all connected to resources. And today, we don't sacrifice animals and we don't trade our daughters in marriage to the neighboring family so that we can do family covenant. We don't do that anymore. So the way that we covenant to one another is by our words and our heart and saying where i'm committing to doing something. And the second way is through finances. And so really what we're doing is we're marrying two realities together because we see that collaboration is not only essential and they're necessary, but it's actually paramount to extending the kingdom.

Let me say this. We can go further, better, together than we can alone, and this place of collaboration with prayer, it's marrying the Zechariah idea of the priestly calling of the Joshua, the priest, with the Kingly Zerubbabel, and marrying these two realities of the priestly and the kingly together. And actually what it says in Zechariah, is it says these two things that are separate, God is bringing back and joining, and will never be separate again.

Martha: Okay. So I'm a practical kind of person. And what you just explained to me gives me, even me who I understand this and believe in what you guys are doing, a new perspective. I am not a marketer. I can do a decent amount of marketing. I can create things and, make images and put things on the website and things like that. But am I the very best at it? No. I sometimes employ people to do a project or to take it to that next level, and what you are just explaining in a beautiful way is the same thing with prayer. We pray for our organization. We pray for each other. We pray for our co workers.

Jim: We gotta pray just to make it today.

Martha: Amen. And we do that to the level that we have that relationship. But we contract with you to say, let's take it to another level because we really need to pray into this. And I guess that just made sense to me.

Jim: We've been using Coreign now for three years, Martha. What's your perspective on how having Coreign and their team pray for iWork4Him over the last few years, what's your perspective on that?

Martha: A couple of things come to mind. One is we have a lot of people in our life that we ask them to pray for us and to pray with us about iWork4Him specifically. And it's direction and things like that. And I believe to a certain extent they do that, but I don't think they really lean in necessarily to God's guidance in what our next step should be and where he's warning us or where he's telling us to pull back.

And I know that our prayer partners at Coreign, our intercessors are doing that, that they are saying. Okay, I want to really ask the Lord about XYZ. I really want to land on this, this one thing or this big concept, whatever it might be and really lean into that with us. And I think that's the difference. We know wholeheartedly that it is a part of what's happening on our behalf.

Jim: Scott, are all your customers as difficult as us though? We've got, we have a lot of needs. We're always asking you to pray about specific things. Are all your customers that interactive with you?

Scott Flora: I would probably say the only one that's a little more high maintenance than you is probably David McKay.

Martha: Wow. He's going to be joining us.

Jim: He'll be joining us. A chance to defend himself. At iWork4Him, we really believe in the power of prayer and actually have a prayer team that receives special emails about the things that they could be praying about for iWork4Him, the events we attend, Martha, and the people we meet with and specific needs we have within the ministry.

We want to invite you listeners to join our prayer team, please join our prayer team. Pray along with us. Get special mess special messages from Martha and I on a regular basis. Go to iWork4Him. com. That's I work the number for him. com Forward slash prayer team. Join the prayer team, become a part of praying for this ministry. We have influence over thousands of people every week. We'd love to have you join us.

You know, Martha, we've prayed about a lot of things in our businesses over the years and over iWork4Him, we spend a lot of time praying. Can you think of one time we spent a lot of time praying over something and we saw an amazing result or an answer?

Martha: You know what I think of, there's so many things. Two things come to mind just real quick. One was actually, this is pre having Coreign as a part of our team, just asking the Lord to use us in a way that's above and beyond our own gifts, talents, and abilities. And he answers that every day with iWork4Him because we did not have training in this industry or, there's no background.

But yet we've seen God's hand and how he prepared us for such a time as this. And I would say today, Jim, still praying into Lord, we've renovated a building, we've spent a year of our life prepping it for whatever God wants it to be for ministry, and we still don't have that answer. So praying into Lord, we're open to whatever your leading is and we're ready. We have a building that we've restored and given new life for God's kingdom. And we don't know yet all of the aspects that it will be used for and praying into that, knowing that he's gonna show us each step of the way.

Jim: So Scott, I got a question for you. So as business owners we're always have decisions before us that we're looking for. We really just want to do what God wants us to do. We really we just really want to know, God, what do you want us to do? We really want to know the solution. I don't want to waste time screwing it up. We understand that God already has it figured out. How often do the business owners and organizational leaders that you represent, do they come to you with specific things they're wrestling over to ask you to intercede on their behalf alongside of them to get the specific answer?

Scott Flora: Yes, absolutely. So many times that we actually don't let more than about seven to ten days - like it's actually a long time for us to not have communication with any of our CEO partners. Because we want to know what's going on. I come from a special forces background and so I'm like really military and intense a little bit. Like I want to know what y'all have for breakfast. I want to know everything, like I want to know how the lawnmowers working on sunday afternoon. Like I want to know everything that I can know.

And we spend a lot of time, capitalize a lot of time praying for marriages and relationships because this is what we know for sure - your Business that you're doing for kingdom expansion is an overflow of your relationship that you're having with yourself, being authentic and true to yourself. Your relationship that you have with God and your relationship that you're having with those five closest relationships, and we could say wife, children, and maybe one or two others, would be added to the mix.

So we spend a lot of time praying specifically into those because your decision making ability Is drastically reduced when we add in the dynamics of all those relationships that I just mentioned, right? So you're not outsourcing your prayer. I'm not your Holy Spirit, but what I am trying to do is make sure that everything in your life is where it ought to be, which is the biblical definition of righteous or righteousness, is everything as it ought to be.

So I'm praying things into you: righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, so that the decisions that you have to make, that are transitions, that are shifting the way that several other people, some of our companies have multiple levels of employees and leadership staff. Everything that our ceo partners do not only affect their own household but multiple other households that they're responsible of creating this culture. So Absolutely, it's all the time. I'm constantly texting and calling.

Jim: So Martha, we've spent a ton of time talking about how prayer has impacted our ministry and our walk.

Martha: Yeah, and you know it makes me think of, Jim, early on, actually before iWork4Him was even birthed, God really showed you this thing that has become what we call the iWork4Him nation covenant. And prayer is a big part of that. And so I just want to encourage the listeners to go to iWork4Him. com to the bookstore And find where you can get the PDF of the book that we have written. iWork4Him. It has the nation covenant in there.

Or if you click on join the nation, you can actually learn more about what God just laid out as our steps to help in this connection between the prayer that can happen in the workplace and seeing God's hand in all that we do.

Jim: It's really a secret to turn your workplace into a mission field. It really is.

Martha: Even let me just say this. Since our very first date, we have prayed together every day, you and I for almost 40 years have prayed together every day. And when we are even at a restaurant and some server asks us, what's the secret to a long marriage? We say, it's prayer. Prayer is that secret sauce. And that's really what we're talking about today, is that inviting God into the conversation, is really the foundation of what we want to talk about today and open up our listeners to that idea that there's more to it than just saying, God bless what I'm already planning to do, right? That's what most of us do is we say, God, just bless what I'm already planning.

Jim: And I think it's amazing that MC Hammer said it best in 1990 and I alluded to this earlier. He said it in a great song. "You got to pray just to make it today." You do.

Scott, you brought a guest today. You've already hinted at who the guest is that could share from their own experience of using prayer, of having a prayer intercessor on their staff. Why don't you introduce your guest today?

Scott Flora: Yeah. It's my pleasure to bring a dear personal friend and partner in the marketplace. David McKay is the president and CEO of HMK company. They primarily build schools and government projects. A lot of us vote on the budgeting and different things that we do in our communities. And David is the company, once those get passed and then voted in, David is the company that they would hire to project manage and to actually do all of those buildings. So he's the liaison in public school systems and government agencies to build those projects that the people vote on to create, and he has multiple levels of employees. Just an awesome man of God and one of my longest partners. And it's just a joy to introduce you to David McKay.

Jim: David, we're grateful to have you here on iWork4Him and I now know based on what your job is why you need prayer because you're working with governmental agencies and educational organizations. You're needing a hot mess amount of prayer, David! How did you learn about having an intercessor for your company?

David McKay: My history comes from grandparents and mothers that were mighty intercessors. I'm here as a product of prayer. Frankly, I was considered most likely to get a life sentence in high school, and it was truly their prayers that drew me to the Lord and got me on this path of a deep personal relationship with the Lord.

So my wife Karen and I, prayer has always been a huge part of our lives. Going back to a mission trip in 1989 we took to Chile and Argentina. I was off in Chile with a missionary doing some work. She stayed in the city of Santiago. They went and did some tourist type things. And all of a sudden there was gunshots. This is when Chile had lots of civil unrest. And there was somebody from a building, a sniper from the building shooting in the area that they were. And she had her child on her back, one year old on her back. And they said, get down. And she was afraid that Ana would come out of the backpack.

But, from those moments, you just felt the power of prayer. You felt the protective power of prayer. And then just throughout our life Psalms 91 became a huge part of our life very early on. Our youngest son had terrible night terrors. I would have to hold him and pray for him two, three, four hours at night. Just because of the night terrors at a very young age - two months, three months, four months. And when he was about two, we started reciting Psalms 91 every single night. And the very first night we did it, when we got to the very last verse with his three, his two other brothers he immediately fell asleep, slept through the night, first time he'd ever slept through the night his entire life. He was two years old.

Within a week, Psalms 91 was memorized. And every night we would do it before we'd go to bed and he would sleep. So just things like that have really developed in what I would like to say, David and Karen, the McKay family's DNA, the power of prayer. The interesting thing I just want to share with you, can I just share one, one little piece real quick with you, Jim?

So six months later, I asked Joe to go to bed. And at 10 o'clock, which was our normal time and he refused and then he refused to do Psalms 91 that night. And that night he didn't go to sleep, and he saw something that scared him outside of his window. He came in shaking and I said, Joe, you see what happens when you harden your heart and not pray. And so I said, do you think we should do Psalms 91? And we did. And the moment we got to the last verse, he was out and slept through the night. So it's just things like that, that have continually reinforced the need to lean in and for prayer to be just really a part of who we are.

Martha: So translate that to HMK. So your company is to the point where it has intercessors as an active part of the organization. It was part of family DNA. So explain to the listeners how does that impact decision making and other aspects of your organization?

David McKay: Basically, every major decision is made in prayer. So for instance, are we going to pursue an opportunity through a public RFP process. We really try to press in and understand what God's heart is. We don't want to, I'm not building an empire. I'm establishing a legacy and there's a big difference between the two.

And so we want to make sure that we understand what his heart is. When we reopened HMK 10 years ago, I felt like the Lord came to me and said, David, would you partner with me to reestablish HMK company? And I say that in that often people will go to God and say, will you partner with me? We really felt strongly that he asked us to partner with him. So that partnership requires that we are constantly leaning in. We're constantly wanting to walk closely with him and to really understand his heart for everything that we do.

Jim: Again, I just want to dig a little bit deeper. Would you have an example in your life of somebody that said, Hey, not only is prayer powerful at home and in your family, but prayer is powerful at work. Prayer is powerful in business. Prayer is powerful in contract negotiations in determining decisions. Did you have an example in your life, a mentor in your life that said, I've been doing this, you should do this too. Or did it just come naturally?

David McKay: It came naturally. It was really the family heritage, family legacy. My mom was a stockbroker and prayer was always a part of her life, all the way through my career. So I've always had intercessors. I was a pastor in a local church in the Beaverton area, Portland metropolitan area, for well over 20 years where prayer intercession was my part in that large church. So prayer has always been huge.

Martha: David, it's so amazing that you've had that legacy. And I would love for you to talk to the listener who maybe hasn't had that. Maybe their spiritual life hasn't always been a solid relationship with Jesus Christ. And as they're learning, they're listening to things like iWork4Him to learn more about connecting their faith in their work.

So talk to that listener for just a moment about how you would encourage them to incorporate prayer into their organization or in their own walk in their work, because maybe they're not a leader, maybe they don't get to make the decisions, but then also to the decision maker. Like, why would you, what would you say to them to encourage them to have an intercessor involved in their business?

David McKay: I think first and foremost, God cares. He cares about the little things in our life and he really wants to be a part of it. If we look at Jesus as an example of a man, God who laid down his divinity, right? And walked as a man empowered by the Holy Spirit. He's a tremendous demonstration to me, to us, of how God really wants us to walk. And so there's this relationship with the Lord that He wants to be intimately involved in those things of our life. And practicing that continual, His presence continually, He cares for us. Every worry, every care, every concern, every success, every good, bad, he wants to be involved.

And so I think it's just this tremendous opportunity. And what I would say to your listener is I invite you, I encourage you to begin to cultivate this relationship with him to invite him into those conversations. When you're struggling, when you have that challenge and it doesn't matter if you own the business or you work in a business, when you're facing major challenges, take it to him. Open up, allow him to open up scripture, allow him to begin to give you insight.

The work of the Holy Spirit is to help bring wisdom and counsel, to help give us strength, right? To face those, and I believe this with all my heart, and for every challenge I face, there is a heaven solution. And so my job is to slow down long enough to understand what that is because he's asked us to be a representative of the kingdom of heaven. We're ambassadors. And in everything that we do, we're to live from that perspective.

And so Jesus wants to be a part of it. The Holy Spirit wants to empower us to be that representative in the earth today, in the world. Or the oikos, the Greek word oikos is that world that I live in and who my life touches, he wants me to be that representative to the greatest ability that I have. And so I want to invite him to help me be that to the best of my ability.

Jim: And David, I love that example. And I love the fact that you said that God cares about the intimate details, those small things. It's not just about big decisions. that he wants to be involved in the intimate details of our lives, especially in our work, whether it's business or education or whether it's in the military, whether it's in the government or wherever it may be that God wants to be involved in those details.

One last question, David, and then we're going to wrap this conversation up. When you look at the impact of intercessors on your business, and you look at the impact on ROI, and you look at the impact on profit and loss, how can you, because a lot of people are going does it really make a difference in the money that I make? Does it make a difference in the people that I hire? What would you say is the most substantial way where you can identify the impact it's made on HMK?

David McKay: Great question. I'd say number one, the culture. It's a place that people want to come to work. I'd say that there's just this sense of peace. People genuinely like each other. And so I'd say that is the biggest impact that we've had. If I could share one more illustration, I remember a number of years ago, we had just finished doing a major remodel of an elementary school. Now we're not constructors. We manage every contract an owner enters into.

But so we're very engaged throughout the process. And the first day of school, it was a Friday. Kids had been in school for 4 days and I was standing in the middle of the hallway with the superintendent and all of a sudden to one end, there's a group of kids that are walking in single file from the playground. They're in perfect line and order. There's no monkey business. No, no noise. And I was just thinking, and I said to him, man, this building has this incredible sense of peace.

And about that time, that group of kids walked by us and they said, yeah, that's kindergartners. They've only been in school four days. And what it was like the Lord knocking on my shoulder saying, David, there is far more to what you do, the work of your hands, the blessing from the work of your hands that have impacts on the buildings that you're building. And so that was a real encouragement to me that there, there is a marked, if I could use the term, a marked kingdom influence in the work that we do.

So do I measure it in our lives? Do I measure it in profitability? No, I measure it in culture. I measure it in the work that we do and the lasting impact and the lasting effect it has. I measure it in the relationships that we build in these communities. And and to me that is the impact, the long lasting impact that I'm looking for.

Martha: Amen.

Jim: Great summary. Thank you, David.

Martha: Scott, I can imagine that there are a lot of people with maybe more questions than they even started with at the beginning of the show. Things they never even knew that they would want to know about. And I know you talked about the fact that you have videos on your website that can help answer some of those questions.

But I think about the fact that you are offering for people to have a free consult with you. And this is just a resource. One of the things iWork4Him wants to do is be that place to say, have you thought about this? And let's direct you in the right direction. And so let's talk about that just for a minute for the people that are curious about what next steps would look like. How can they get a hold of you, and we will put the link in the show notes for the calendar where they can go and connect with you, but just talk about that for a minute for our listeners, as we wrap up.

Scott Flora: Yeah we didn't really get into any testimonies, but I have documents that are,

Jim: David's qualifies as a testimony!

Scott Flora: Yeah, so we just have, we've had course cases overturned and reversed. We've had things open where it was closed. We had things closed where they were open and we've had so many stories of God's breakthrough. On a consult, what I would want to do is I would want to just hear stories like what is your story connected to your kingdom assignment? And why are you in it? And what is the Lord doing? And then we'll discover strategy.

I was just meeting with the largest prison ministry in the world. And I just had a morning meeting with several of the decision makers and we were discovering ways that we could create and strengthen the culture of prayer within their ministry. They're a national ministry. They're in, I don't know, 80 percent of the prisons in America. They have a chapter and so they're a significant ministry and they have lots of partners and we were talking about different types of strategies and different types of initiatives.

So those meetings would really be about number one, we would talk story and we would just get to know each other and then discover the best prayer strategy for you. Cause you're not outsourcing prayer. We're discovering the prayer strategy that fits you the best. And sometimes that means we're doing something that is a little more facilitated in house.

And sometimes that means engagement, full engagement at different levels that we have available, of different ways that we can help you create a culture of prayer. And so this isn't about you hiring me so that you can pray or so that I can pray. That's not what we do. You're not hiring me to pray for you but we are collaborating in how we can create prayer strategy that shifts a culture and it strengthens the assignment that God laid in your hands.

So that's what that consult would just be about, lots of story, lots of relationship. This is all built on relationship. Kingdom moves at the speed of relationship, and relationship moves at the speed of trust. So we just begin the friendship.

Jim: So you're saying one size doesn't fit all, that when you set up an intercessory for an organization, you really find out and match up. This is the approach we will take as we walk alongside of you. It's all custom. So, Martha, Scott wanted to give away something. Help him do it.

Martha: Yeah, he's just offering free consultation and people can do that by connecting to the calendar link that I will have in the show notes, and through that just get a connection to Scott to learn more. And this is just Jim and I endorsing, encouraging that to happen.

Jim: It's made such an impact on us. Coreign. org Coreign, right? I got it right, Scott, right? Coreign. org I don't know all of a sudden. We encourage you to check it out. Check it out online Scott flora with Coeign and david McKay with hmk. We're grateful that you guys joined us today and iWork4Him Thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks for talking to us about the power of intercessory prayer And we just we can't wait to see what comes out of this show, but thanks for being with us today. You're listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him. com.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

8/2/23 - 2001: You're a 1st-Tier Citizen

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your world? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Modern church culture tends to emphasize the importance and prestige of working in full time ministry as a pastor, foreign missionary, or the like. But here at iWork4Him, we want to help resurrect the original idea behind the idea of ministry. There seems to be a theological misunderstanding that the top jobs in the kingdom are a missionary and pastor. That's simply not true. There are no tiers in the kingdom. The body of Christ is made up of many parts.

None is more important than the other. If you ever feel unimportant in the kingdom of God, like who you are and what you do is on a lower tier while others are on a higher one, remember 1st Corinthians 12. God lets us know that each of us plays an important role in the body of Christ. Verse 18 says, Our bodies have many parts, but God has put each part just where He wants it.

Today we're going to focus our conversation on a fresh understanding of the importance of our work, no matter what that work is, in the bringing of the kingdom to earth and helping others to meet Jesus. Charlie Self joins us, I should say, Dr. Charlie Self joins us today as Martha and I talk about his new program called Discipleship Dynamics. And we talk about the fact that the world of theology tends to struggle with this tiering system. Charlie Self, welcome back to iWork4Him.

Charlie Self: It is a delight to be with you and a delight to see and share with a team, the two of you and your whole team, that I pray for with great joy. So thanks for letting me be part of this.

Jim: No problem. Charlie, where did this idea come from that there were two tiers in the kingdom, pastors and missionaries at the top, and then the rest of us who are supposed to support these top tier Christians with our tithes and offerings?

Charlie Self: It's as old as the fall of humanity. It's as old as the origins of every single culture, religion, including God's work in His chosen people, Israel. Now God does choose people. Let's be fair. In the Bible God chooses people through whom everyone else can be blessed and participate. So God chose Moses to lead Israel and he chose Moses and he chose others to do certain functions. But then the people of God almost like it sometimes when people are in positions that to do the spiritual stuff while they do the regular stuff.

So sometimes that kind of power comes from the ground up, with misunderstanding. Other times the people with those assignments, and we want to praise God for people that God does make pastors and evangelists and missionaries. We praise God for them. We praise God for authority in the church. But sometimes we can get a little too much in love with that authority. And so whether it's people, the laity, we call them or...

Jim: not on this show, we don't call them the laity.

Charlie Self: I'm having fun with you here.

 (laughter)

Charlie Self: In fact, it was even Pope John Paul and you can't get a more hierarchical view of church polity than the Roman Catholic Church, but he said the real apostolate of God's mission in the world is the laity.

In other words, most of history, most of the time, the Kingdom of God is advancing through the conversations of the laity, and now, no longer using that word, God's people. And guess where God's people spend most of their waking hours? They spend it at work. And so all through both biblical and church history, the advancement of God's kingdom has taken place through all of the people of God.

But this combination of people wanting others to be responsible, but also really until the emergence of Christianity, a very top down set of cultures made it a pretty easy thing for people to toil for the princes and the priests.

Jim: I think it's really a convenient misunderstanding because if somebody's really the super spiritual people then I don't have to work so hard in my relationship because I'm living vicariously through the super Christian, the pastors and missionaries, and I could just sit back and just show up on Sunday and get a little bit of weekends from the pulpit kind of deal. I think it's a convenient kind of a thing. You think that's what it is?

Charlie Self: I think that's part of it. I am heartened by how much it's changing. And I'll tell you, the biblical source for all of this is the fact that on the day of Pentecost, what I call the unveiling of the church, not the birth of the church, but her public presentation = in Spanish would say her quinceanera - the church is being presented to the world. What happens? All of the people gathered are touched by the Holy Spirit. All of them are empowered. And even though Peter preached the famous sermon, they're all empowered to go out. A few chapters later, they're all scattered and evangelizing.

Of course, my favorite part of the book of Acts is the story of Antioch. We read in chapter 11. We don't even know who the founding apostle was in Antioch. It just said they were first called Christians. And so we thank God for the fact that Spirit empowered women and men going out about their everyday life are the key agents by which God's work in the world has always taken place.

Jim: All right. You speak from a position of authority and knowledge because you got a doctorate, you've been studying this stuff. You study church history, you know this stuff, but I want you to, I want you to just relax a little bit, but I'm gonna challenge your theology a little bit. Okay.

Because what I want to know is you've preached in churches, you've had a church, you teach in seminary or university, you interact with pastors and missionaries all across the country and around the world, do you see a beginning of understanding pastors amongst and missionaries that they're not the number one Christians, that we're all on the same team?

Charlie Self: Yes, not just the beginning. I've been heartened for the last 30 years at the gradual and substantive growth of that understanding But what we have, instead of a hierarchy, you use the wonderful analogy of St. Paul, right, in Corinthians, of the body having many parts and each part fulfilling its function. I like to think of a whole bunch of different Venn diagrams all beautifully overlapping.

Jim: Charlie, nobody likes to think of Venn diagrams. What is wrong with you?

 (laughter)

Martha: Charlie does!

Charlie Self: Imagine, just imagine people in all different circles of life where God's placed them, whether it's arts, whether it's parenting, whether it's entrepreneurship, whatever it may be, the beautiful thing is they're all empowered by the Spirit to make a difference two ways at all times. So I'm agreeing with you completely. Number one, the work they do is inherently important and good. There is no secular work for God's people.

Jim: When you make good points like that, you got to just stop . Say that word again.

Charlie Self: There is no secular work for God's people. Romans 12, one and two, when Paul says to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, he's ending religion, he's ending this notion.

And I'll quote a theologian who actually makes sense. But too often we think of religion as sacred activity in sacred spaces at sacred times. Paul is shattering all of that when he says for our whole life to be a thank you to God in whatever we do. And Colossians says it even more clearly, verse 17. Whatever you do in word or deed. And Paul did not say whatever you do in the church. Whatever you do for the church. You are the church, and therefore, whatever you do in word or deed is done for the glory of God and the good of others.

So the work itself is inherently important. And then Mark Green from London, I loved his statement, the work itself matters, and the work is the front line of God's assignment to advance His kingdom in the world.

Jim: Now, Martha, when you and I committed our lives to full time Christian ministry as 13 year olds and then we met three years later as 16 year olds, this was a subject. This was an understanding that you struggle with, wasn't it?

Martha: It was because as a teenager, I went through this amazing transformation time in my family where my dad sold his business. We went to South America. We were there for a year as missionaries, but my dad was doing the work that he had done in his profession. So he was photographing in South America, in Venezuela, and then we came back to America, moved to where we met, praise the Lord. But then he was in a position of helping other missionaries communicate their story through photography.

I was trying to process this whole, what my dad was doing in his work was meaningful before we went on the mission field. It was meaningful while we were on the mission field, and it was meaningful when we came back from the mission field. I had such an amazing perspective of all of that, yet I still, as a teenager, thought that my calling meant I was going to end up on a mission field.

So I still didn't see that for me, it could mean my day to day. And we struggled with that as a young couple for a long time. Like, how do we live that out? I love to be an entrepreneur. We love the area of business. We love finance and sales. How does that translate for us? Do we build a business and then sell it like my dad and then go do it?

So that was something that I got to see. I was on the front lines of seeing it lived out in a healthy way, which is amazing. But yet still didn't know for sure how that was gonna impact us.

Jim: You know, Charlie, one of the things that Martha and I really struggled with when we were newlyweds, we were involved in a church, we knew we had made this commitment as 13 year olds to full time Christian ministry and after I got my degree and Martha and I got our first house, I enrolled in seminary because I naturally thought the next thing I need to do is get my seminary degree so I could go work in a church as a pastor, a youth pastor, what we're thinking. Because I have a teenage personality. I still do as a 57 year old.

And God stepped in our way and said, no, that's not what you need to be doing. And so we remained in our insurance career. And twice we did this and twice God said, no, very clearly he said, no. But this was a struggle because I felt second tier. I felt like my only job was to make money and give it to the church ministry so they could do the work of the gospel. And I just had a sales career and nope.

When I tried to communicate my frustration and my call to ministry, the pastors that we were working with couldn't help us understand that our call was entrepreneurialism. My calling was sales and connections and networking. And that, in fact, was our place of ministry. Charlie, how are people starting to gain this understanding when they go to church on Sunday? Are there more and more churches helping people understand this?

Charlie Self: Yes, they are. And there's several churches now that are featuring the testimonies of their congregants and they call it this time tomorrow. How will you be worshiping, serving, witnessing for God this time tomorrow? And a dry cleaner comes up and says, My business is so important. People have interviews, weddings, I'm helping the homeless, and this dry cleaner describes the work itself is important, and the number of people that know of his integrity ask him for prayer, ask him to share why he's so joyful. But that's just one example.

Other churches once a month are literally anointing with oil and laying hands on people in a different sphere of society. For instance, they took the medical field one month and everybody from the volunteer to the neurosurgeon, every kind of work involving medicine and healing people, stood and they were commissioned to go in the name of Jesus and bring healing and help.

Here's the other cool thing, though, in the midst of all this. They're also learning that all those supernatural gifts and all of those marvelous things we read about in the Bible in the life of Jesus, most of them took place outside the church, and they're taking place on the factory floor, in boardrooms, in different places.

Once you have no secular work, oh, the whole game changes. And let me share two words that are really helpful, that have been life changing in and through my ministry, but also as I receive this knowledge from others. And that is, all of us have callings that are more than our current work assignment. We all are given by God, first of all, the calling to love Him and make Him known, and then that general calling of loving our spouses if we're married, and our children if God blesses us with them, and then God gives us a specific sense of purpose.

Now, here's a cool thing. That can happen in and through a variety of occupations. So the work world's changing all the time, but a sense of calling to the kingdom and then bringing our character and our gifts to whatever work we're doing, that's a breakthrough because now my identity isn't only insurance or it isn't only the specific title I have, it's now I bring this to the world. And this is the work where I bring it. And so it's pretty exciting to watch that come together.

Jim: Charlie, I think part of it was as a kid, the great commission was go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of, okay... it was the go, but, and then we were told if you're being called to ministry, you should go. But then really in today's world, as they really have gone through deeper interpretations and translations, that it's really meant was, as you go.

Charlie Self: Yes.

Jim: As you go. And there's a big cotton pickin and holy buckets difference between go and as you go,

Martha: I just put that on our little sign out in our lobby. I put as you go dot, because that was really a big impact on Jim and I just recently, even just hearing that conversation, that it's, as we go, no matter where we're going or what we are doing. How are we living out and discipling others?

I want to just let listeners know that one of the things, Jim, the rest of our story is in our iWork4Him book. And we can never dig into all of that on any one show, and our purpose today is to talk with Dr. Charlie Self and to hear more about what he's going to share in just a moment with all of our listeners, but you can now get our book in a PDF form on our website. iWork4Him. com. Go to the bookstore and there we have it, very inexpensively.

And I just want to encourage you to go and download a copy for yourself so that you can get the PDF. You can actually get the paperback and the audio book as well. But we'll have all those links in the show notes for anybody. And if you're watching this episode, you gotta watch Dr. Charlie Self because he's giving thumbs up and things that are not audible in the recording. But you see it live, and I just, I love your encouragement in this conversation.

Jim: I think getting a copy of the audio book would be really important because you could fall asleep at the lullaby of my lilting voice.

 (laughter)

Jim: Let me ask this question. What is the impact on the kingdom and the spread of the gospel when believers think they're second tier, Charlie?

Charlie Self: Two things happen immediately. One is their work suffers, and that does not help our Kingdom witness. Remember, Jesus said that, we were the light of the world, and the people are supposed to see our good works and glorify our Father in heaven. Those good works, primarily , our work, I want this to sink in, the good works Jesus tells us, cause people looking in, as it were, looking at Christians to glorify their Father in Heaven are most often seen where we work.

It's not just the volunteer work, praise God for it. It's not just the charitable donation, praise God for it. It's the good works we do as we work, or doing good at our work. And so this is really, so that's the first thing. The second thing that happens is that we lose courage in witnessing. One of my deep concerns for the body of Christ today is the lack of courage to, at the right time, to actually share the gospel, to actually invite people to consider the invitation of Jesus Christ to be their Lord, and their Savior, and their Friend, and their King, and their Boss, as it were.

Both things suffer, but when God's people are empowered, they go and they do their work well, and those divine appointments seem to occur with much greater frequency.

Martha: I keep thinking about the young couple Jim and Martha. And if we'd have met you, Charlie, what would you have said to us, knowing that we felt there was a call on our life, knowing that we are entrepreneurs, and how would what you have said helped to impact. Yeah, I don't live in regret, we learn and we grow as we go, but what would you have said to this young couple and what do you say to anybody listening that might be struggling with this that can help impact the kingdom?

Charlie Self: First of all, I would commend you for wanting to serve God with all of your heart. And I would urge you as a couple to seek God together, to enjoy God together, and then to begin to write down what God's shown you, about what each of you bring to the world and what you together bring to the world. And then begin to realize that through the business, through the entrepreneurship, whatever it may be, what I would do as your pastor is I would not just legitimize, I would celebrate, empower, equip, do everything I could, to make you love Monday.

Because the goal of our gathering on Sunday is that you're empowered for Monday. And let me tell you, that it was a venture capitalist of all people who looked me in the eye over 20 years ago, and he said, Charlie, you preach to a thousand people, and that's important. And thank you for preaching, and I need your input in my life. I need to know what the Bible says about what I do. But he says, I make a decision, and a thousand people have or don't have a job. Who's doing God's work in the world?

And he said it misty eyed. He said it with humility because he always sought in the companies he served to enhance and empower. He took his great commission and the empowering of the spirit seriously in empowering employees, empowering executives. So I would just be pouring all the gasoline on your fire I could. And we would be making sure the vocabulary is biblical.

Jim: We'll jump ahead because well, we're going to jump in. We're going to talk about your discipleship method that you've developed, but I have one last question because right now before we get to talk about your really great tool, there's 55 million approximately workplace believers today and 45 million Retired believers in this country. So a hundred million people.

And Charlie, based on our research, our several hundred thousand miles on the road and over 4, 000 interviews, less than 1 percent of them understand this. Less than 1 percent of them understand that their work matters to God, that there's supposed to be purpose in their work and that no matter what they do, it's there to glorify God.

And in retirement way less than 1 percent of them understand that. Retirement is just another stage in their calling and that their calling didn't retire when they did. And because they're not dead they're not done, that God still has so much for them in the retirement . Charlie, how the heck do we shift this ship, turn it around, and send it in the right direction?

Charlie Self: One church, one sermon, one song, one prayer at a time, one podcast at a time. We labor away in the grassroots. By the way your research and experience is confirmed by several others that I'm working with right now who were funded by the Lilly Foundation, funded by Oxford, funded by all these famous places.

Jim: Wait a minute. There was an opportunity I could have got funding to figure this stuff out?

 (laughter)

Charlie Self: I want to just validate what you've experienced with amazing women and men that I work with right now. And the percentages vary. Barna has done this work, others have, but it's too small a percentage. It's way under 10 percent in most cases.

And I would say this, we've got to get our biblical vision renewed and our theological vision renewed, and by the way, that can be done at 8 or 88 years old. That can be done with minimal education. We have got to be enamored again with the grand narrative, the great story of Scripture, and who our God is. We've got to get that into us and then realize that for such a time as this we're born.

I want to address one other thing you mentioned, which is dear to my heart. I did a faith and work summit address on faith and work for the rest of us in 2016. And I talked about the retirees, people with physical and mental disabilities, and the hidden service worker, the person who comes to church and worships with us, but that car is 10 years older. Those shoes have holes. It's a hard life. So I did these three groups of people.

And what was really interesting is all of the research, no surprise, supports the biblical contention that all of our days matter to God. And if one has the privilege, by the way, it's a very modern privilege. If one has the privilege of leaving a certain kind of full time work and waking up with more choices, it's a reassignment, not a retirement. It is a new season to serve. And you have choices. And I praise God for those who've prepared for that. That's a brand new notion in global history, by the way.

Secondly, the physically and mentally challenged have so much to give , to give in businesses, and then that hidden service worker toiling at something that's not always glamorous. And what I was trying to do with these, both these clergy and non clergy folks who believe the theology we're embracing today, trying to remind them it's got to not only reach clergy and non clergy, it's got to reach every culture, every class, every race, every geography. As one of my mentors said, if it's in the bible, it works in albania and alabama.

Jim: But all of this, is not really, none of it is new because 500 years ago the reformation was all about this, the eliminating the hierarchy. And it's just that there's such a deep need in our country, and i'm just focusing on the united states. I know that there's needs across the globe, but in our country, we desperately need believers to understand that their vibrant faith in Jesus Christ needs to be impacting everybody around them, whether they believe in Jesus or not. Because our world is falling apart. And if Jesus followers would just live and breathe like Jesus followers, no matter where they go, things would change.

And that's really not theoretical. Obviously not. The first 300 years of the church they overturned the roman empire without ever drawing a sword because of the vibrancy of their dynamic faith. Charlie, I love the conversation about that there's no tiers. So if you're listening to the podcast, just understand you are not a second tier citizen. If your job title isn't pastor or missionary, we are all in the same tier. There are no ranking systems in the kingdom of God. We have one God and we are his adopted children and what you do, no matter what it is, matters to him. Martha?

Martha: I just I love the conversation that we're having and one of the things that we do on a daily basis to help people with this concept is we have these one minute PowerThought that we supply to our listeners.

You can subscribe to the iWork4Him power thought and the link will be in the show notes. You can find us on your favorite podcast platform. It's just one more way to set that daily challenge and say, what am I going to do today for the kingdom? Whether I'm retired, whether I'm going to work, whether I'm unemployed, whether I've lost my job. I have the ability to honor the Lord in whatever actions I do today and how am I going to do that?

And the PowerThought is just one more way to equip ourselves to put on the armor of God and prepare for our day. And I just encourage all of you listeners to go and subscribe to that and to get that extra challenge, that extra, sometimes encouragement, sometimes a hit over the head, whatever it might be for the day, to help you to remember that you are important in the kingdom.

Charlie, we are excited about what you've been working on. This new discipleship model, 5D Discipleship Dynamics. How did this get birthed? Tell us about it.

Charlie Self: The book is called Life in 5D: A New Vision of Discipleship, just out this year, and it's available at discipleshipdynamics. com, and we'll share more about the tools with it.

It was birthed with a simple question over 13 years ago. Let me go back. It was birthed 30 years ago in my heart. But I was frustrated as a pastor with a lack of progress in discipleship. And I realized that we had reduced discipleship to duties and programs, and we had never thought about what's the outcome. What are we aiming for?

People would give general phrases - the image of Christ and the glory of God. But no, what does it mean? And so fast forward as I continued on that journey, learning from wonderful sisters and brothers. 13 years ago, myself and Johan Mosterd were given a blessing because we were starting this faith work integration at the seminary, and I want to thank you for your hard labor, because it bore fruit in a variety of seminaries in the last 20 years, and it's bearing fruit in a lot of places.

But we asked this question, what does it look like to be a healthy disciple on Tuesday at 3:00 PM or Thursday at 10:00 AM? And Jesus is not saving souls. He's redeeming whole people. And this is the most important theological undercurrent, is that the incarnation and resurrection of Jesus communicates something really profound. God so loved that He gave, but God so loved in Jesus that He forever became one of us. And, in the risen Jesus, we see our future. So if we're embodied people, and God's made us to dwell with Him and to do His work in the world, in Genesis and Revelation, we are dwelling and doing.

By the way, just to hopefully not discourage anybody, but our eternal future on the new earth and in the new heavens is going to involve doing.

Jim: Isn't that hilarious? Because everybody thinks we're gonna be sitting around playing harps on a cloud. No! God gave us - if work was a gift, we're going to be working in heaven, and people like what? We're gonna be working? And of course we're be working, but we'll be walking on golden streets. So that'll be cool

Charlie Self: No bad bosses, no high taxes, but with that in mind, we started listening to literally hundreds of leaders, and we asked the question what are the... hebrews 13: 7, consider the outcome of their way of life. By the way, the Bible is not unclear about what a healthy disciple is. They love God. They love their neighbor as themselves. They are fulfilling their calling. They're doing today well. The Bible's not unclear. They're forgiving. They're patient. But we wanted, we just did a lot of listening.

And here's the cool thing. Over a period of about five years, we've developed, we're on the fourth version of the assessment, and we have a college one as well. And the kids ones are not far behind, but what we're excited about is we realized all five dimensions of human life are part of Jesus's redemption - our spiritual life with God of loving him and loving the church and loving prayer, loving the word of God , our emotional life. Can I give a shout out to Peter Scazzaro and others who've reminded us in the Bible?

Here's another zinger for you. There's no difference between emotional and spiritual maturity in the Bible. They are inseparable. They're hand in hand. You could be given a gift as a day old Christian. That doesn't mean you're a mature person. It means you have a gift. Thirdly, loving our neighbor as ourselves, healthy relationships are the norm. But then we added two more that were not in the discipleship literature, and this is why we keep talking together, rejoicing together, weeping together, praying together.

We added vocational clarity. Do you know your gifts? Do you know what God's called you to do? In both a general and specific sense, do you know the dignity of your work? And then we added a fifth that was very controversial. We call it economics and work. And that is the everyday participation in the economy and at the workplace. Are you an asset at your workplace? Are your ethics excellent? Are you a steward of the environment? And by the way, we have outcomes like sharing the gospel with others and mentoring others.

But we started, as you can imagine, with scores and distilled it to 35 outcomes in these five dimensions, and we created an assessment where the believer can get a snapshot of how she or he is doing. Here's the other cool part. We also created it so spiritual leaders, pastors, small group leaders, directors, they can invite people to take this and they get a dashboard on how the group is doing without violating confidentiality.

Jim: There's just so much, but we're really out of time. But I want to make sure that people get connected with this tool. Charlie, two things You said you were willing to give away five copies of your brand new book so listeners if you want to get a copy, I've been, I just got my copy on Monday. So just a couple of days ago and there's so much in here. Discipleship is so needed. Okay, Jesus had that idea. It's not a new idea. It's so needed. And the way Charlie and Johan and Jamie came together in this book, it just makes it make sense. It's just whole life discipleship.

If you want to copy this book, if you want to start transforming the discipleship in your local church community, just email Martha at IWork4Him. com, Martha at IWork4Him. com, and she'll arrange for you to get a copy of a book from Charlie. Charlie, on your website you said DiscipleshipDynamics. com, is that it?

Charlie Self: Yeah, that's where you find out about the assessment, you'll find out about how to use it, you'll find out more about the book. And we just really want to serve folks and, I just, I know we're almost out of time, but it was a children's pastor that inspired us 10 years ago. He said, I get it. I feel close to Jesus. I know what I'm good at. I feel good about myself. I'm doing my chores for Jesus today. I'm getting along with people. In other words, if an eight year old could get it, then the rest of us can, too. And I just want to say that we've done our best to give a lot of depth, but we've done our best to make it accessible.

And by the way, when we get discipleship clear, evangelism is much easier, because now we know what we're calling people to.

Martha: So powerful.

Jim: Check out Dr. Charlie Self online at DrCharlieSelf. com, DrCharlieSelf. com, DrCharlieSelf. com, DrCharlieSelf. com. So great conversation today, Charlie. Thank you for being with us.

Charlie Self: It's my honor and pleasure, and we'll continue to pray for one another and continue to believe that every one of God's people can feel empowered on Monday.

Martha: Amen. No tiers in the kingdom. That's something we want each one of you to really understand. And this powerful conversation is the kind of conversations we have every week on iWork4Him. So make sure that you connect with us on social media, whatever your favorite platform is, we are there with this content for you. So just search for iWork4Him. I Work the number 4 him on any of your favorite platforms or let me know if we're not on one of yours, we're joining truth social and rumble as we speak so new ones are coming. We know that God has a platform where you are hanging out and He helped people design it so we could use it. And you can always watch that interview on youtube and rumble.

And we always put the links in our Facebook page. If you're old school, Facebook and LinkedIn, right? We love it there, too. We want you to follow us and because God has messages and stories through the guests that we have on our show. We do this for a reason and it's for you.

Jim: You've been listening to the iWork4Him radio program, which is also a podcast, which is also just having a conversation with you. We're your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace is our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, She Works for Him, and I Retire for Him by going to iWorkforHim. com. iWork4Him, She Works for Him, and I Retire for Him by going Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit IWorkForHim. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number for him. com.

7/28/23 - 2000: iWork4Him 101

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him , the voice of collaboration for the faith and work movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This is in fact our 2000th podcast under the iWork4Him moniker.

We thought it was the perfect day to talk about the most powerful concept that's come out of the birthing and the existence of iWork4Him over the last 10 years. You see, over the last 10 years, we've interviewed thousands of people. And this one common theme has come up over and over and over again, and it is these steps that shift your paradigm from looking at your workplace as a necessary evil to looking at your work as a gift from God.

Your workplace, a ministry place, and in fact, your workplace has been assigned to you as your workplace mission field today. We're going to give you all the steps to what is it to how to shift your workplace into a mission field. And there's just five for turning your workplace into a mission field by shifting the paradigm of your mind.

Martha, this journey over these last 10 years and these 2000 podcasts has been humbling and sometimes really difficult to get the video and the audio to work together, but it's also been an incredible journey, hasn't it?

Martha: It sure has. And I can't believe we are at 2000. But, you know, all along the mission and the, what God has been telling us has never changed.

We know our God doesn't change, but sometimes we need to learn things over and over again. And, and really, that's really what we're going to talk about today is some very basic concepts that God has taught us that we want others to know as well.

Jim: What, what do you think for you over the last 2000 episodes, what's been the biggest surprise?

The one thing you've seen? That has happened over and over again. What's the what has been the biggest surprise for you?

Martha: Well, I, I don't know if I can ever say what one thing, but over and over again, just seeing God's hand in people's lives. Even this week, getting an email from somebody that said, I learned, you know, I got to start understanding that my workplace was a place of ministry and saw people come to Christ and different things.

And it's like, God is not done. He is just starting his work in the workplace. And we just get to have this wonderful vantage point of seeing his hand at work. How about for me,

Jim: the biggest surprise has been, you know, I had somebody, one of my old bosses in fact said to me, Jim, what are you going to do when you run out of people to interview?

Yeah, exactly. Never happened. Never happened. We, we thought maybe there was 50 or a hundred different workplace focused discipleship ministries in the country. Now we realize there's three or 4, 000, we've only begun to just chip away the iceberg of what God is doing. And we thought there was some great stories.

But in fact, there are. tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of great stories of how God is working in people's workplaces. It's just been so much fun. And we're just so grateful that God's got us on this journey. And every day we, I think probably the other big surprise for me has been the connecting part.

Martha: Yeah, you know, God has gifted you specifically with this ability to see how he's weaving a tapestry, how he's saying, Hey, that person needs to know that person or that ministry needs to be connected to that person or vice versa. And to see the way that God is like, there would be no, maybe God would have found another way, but using iWork4HIm to connect some dots and to allow people to advance the kingdom, to work together.

We love nothing more than seeing silos get broken down and people collaborating together. Jim, that is at the heartbeat of what we do each and every day. And you know, last week we were talking about The story of iWork4Him, the story that God wrote in our lives, and how each one of our listeners has their own story.

And I think that really ties into what we're just saying. You know, we've heard 2, 000 episodes of stories of what God's done and it's not ending. I mean, it is continuing. He is at work, at work.

Jim: That's incredible. So when you think about this, our 2000th, iWork4Him episode, there's also almost 100. iRetire4Him podcast.

There's also almost 100. sheWorks4Him podcast. And there's over 500 different power thoughts that we produce that have been replaying on the radio since 2019, I think. Yeah. So there's a lot of stuff out there. And if you're looking to be encouraged just start listening to some of the old iWork4Him podcast Just don't go back to episode number one.

It's a little rough.

Martha: It's not your favorite

Jim: so One of the things that we really have done as we connect to people is we realize that when somebody is out there looking for a faith and work podcast We realize that if you just go out out to apple podcast or google play music or amazon podcast or youtube podcast or whatever And you type in I want to get a faith and work podcast.

You may find four or five But in fact, there are, we found 155 so far. And we decided to collect them into one place. We call this the Awaken Podcast Network.

Martha: So on our website, there is a button for the Awaken Podcast Network, and if you go there, you can find that collection that has been curated just for you to find other people speaking into maybe the space that you're working in, whether it is a specific industry or maybe you're a Christian working woman and you're looking for something that can help you walk in your day to day in a more unique way.

That is a place to go and to find those voices that resonate with you And we would love for you to check out the awaken podcast network

Jim: awaken podcast network. com You can also go there directly awaken podcast network. com. What's really cool about this martha is that? Awaken Podcast Network is a web app and you can add it.

Our listeners can add it to their website for a small fee every month because it can be licensed out anywhere and we'll do all the maintenance and we can get this out there because maybe you've got employees that you'd love to have them to get exposed to all these other podcasts. Just we can talk about how we can get that added on there It's a great resource that people can get access to so excited to put it out there All right.

I think it'd be great for us to Really go through the five pieces of the iWork4Him nation covenant this awakening that happens in order to shift Our mindset from looking at our workplace as a necessary evil As something that we do in order to support the ministry we do outside of work to shift that paradigm to recognize our workplace as our ministry place, as our mission field.

Martha: So last week, Jim, you were sharing in your story how God really led you to pray for your co workers, your bosses, the vendors that you were working with and everything. And so that really formed the first step of the iWork4Him Nation. So why don't you tell people how they can approach that?

Jim: All right. The first step in talking about your workplace as a mission field, the first step is to start praying for the people that you work alongside by name each and every day. So, you know, if you work normally, we interact with several of the same people every day, just start praying for him by name and then through the process of conversation, learn their spouses names, learn their kids names if they have kids and just are praying for them by name each and every day.

And what you're going to see is God is going to start having you helping you to see those people The way he sees them it it just is amazing the empathy that grows in your heart As you do that and then that leads into step number two.

Martha: Yeah, serving them above and beyond what your job requires you to do.

So, you know, a lot of us have certain, well, remember the days of an actual job description. I think a lot of us have lost that, that perspective, but we have certain things that are our responsibility to do, whether you're taking care of people or whatever the needs are, but going above and beyond that, you know, what is more powerful than, you know, that example of the boss cleaning the bathroom or the boss.

Or the co worker that says, you know what, I'm going to stay late tonight and help you get that project done because you've just been pouring over it and I know you need to get it finished or you have a deadline. Whatever that might be or it might be bringing in zucchini bread that when your zucchinis are abundant in your baking like they are right now, like they are right now

Jim: you know, you could make a zucchini house right now.

Well, you probably could give me a little cement mortar between we could build a whole house of,

Martha: you know, that's even, you know, serving above and beyond, you know, just. Just actually that leads kind of into the next step, Jim.

Jim: All right, so just for review, you start praying for your co workers and employees and your bosses by name each and every day.

Then you look for ways to serve them over and above what you're already required to do. Because if you just do what you're required to do, it doesn't mean anything. Right. Then the next thing we need to do is we need to really become friends with people. So the third step in the iWork4Him nation covenant.

Is start befriending people outside of the workplace. We have workplace friendships, but they're often shallow. Start to get to really know people. So involve yourself in their lives outside of work. Maybe invite them into your home for a meal, if that's appropriate, or go out to dinner with them outside of work where that's appropriate.

But just get to know who they really are and when you invite them in your own bring their families over having them all the way Oh, you'll bring get to know who they are

Martha: You know, this is such a step for getting so creative because it can be the simplest things it can be. Hey, it's summer Let's have a pool party and go to the neighborhood pool.

Not you know, and or you can Think of ways to just get people out of their work zone.

Jim: You got a work day at and your community, you want to invite them to come join you in that work day. There's just so many different ways to do it, but be appropriate. If you're a single mom and you're have another co worker's a single mom go hang out together as single moms But if you're a single lady and one of your co workers is a single guy Maybe invite him over for dinner might not be the best idea, but you can invite multiple friends from work To go off for dinner together.

Martha: Why do we want to befriend them, Jim? What is the purpose behind that?

Jim: We need to get to know who they are outside of work. We need them to get to know us outside of work. We need to know who are they as a whole person because they need to see that our faith infiltrates all of our lives.

Martha: Hmm. That's such a good point because so many times at work, people try to compartmentalize themselves.

In fact, that's why we talk about the work for him in general, because we think we need to compartmentalize our faith, but Jesus changed all of us, all 24 seven. So yeah, There is no setting him aside. So when we incorporate him in all of our life and allow him to change all of it, that means getting to know people in their, and, and who they really are so that we can then fulfill step number four.

Jim: Which is praying with people. Wait a minute, you're freaking out. You're like, I'm not going to pray with somebody. Here's the deal. When you're praying for people on a daily basis, you start to see them the way God sees them. When you serve them over and above the way you're required to. It starts to open doors with people when you befriend them and get to really know them outside of the workplace.

You start to have a relationship so you know, you get to know what the regular, what the normal is for that person. So let's just say it's Martha. Martha is normally a woman full of grace. She's a woman full of mercy. She's normally exceptionally positive. So if you notice that Martha is not those things, you say, hey, Martha, what's going on?

How you doing today? If she responds. I'm fine. Really? Freaked out? Insecure? Neurotic? And emotional? Really? How are you doing? When you ask that question and then you shut up, which is not something I do really well. When you notice somebody's not their normal self and you ask them how they're doing and they respond, fine.

And you say, really? Freaked out? Insecure? Neurotic? And emotional? You don't have to. You can find your own way to do this. But really, how are you doing? You just be quiet. Let them share. Because.

Martha: Because then we want the opportunity, because we've noticed something's going on, they tell us and share with us, then we want to be able to say, can I pray with you about that right now?

And in that vulnerable moment, when they have shared something that's stressing them out, or that they're dealing with and they have not shared you get that opportunity to take it before the Lord. And... We have never experienced anybody saying no,

Jim: because when they've shared from their heart, they've opened their heart.

They already know that you care. They've seen it through lots of other ways there. We've never anybody say no. Doesn't matter what the religion is. I pray with Jews and Muslims and Buddhists. I've prayed with atheists. When people are hurting all of a sudden believe in the power of prayer,

Martha: it's a beautiful thing and they're grateful for it.

So we want to encourage you. This is why we we do the iWork4Him nation is to actually put that challenge out there to say, you know, what this there's purpose in your work. And one of those things is opening up the doors to prayer with your co workers, your employee, your boss, whoever that might be that is sharing with you in that moment and and.

The power of that is what can lead people to a relationship with Jesus Christ. But the reason we've set it up, Jim, is because we're praying for them, we're getting to know them, we're serving them, we're loving on them, and then that, that gives you an authentic place to have a conversation with them.

Jim: And there's a fifth step that's critical to all of this, but before that, I really want to tell you about our blog.

So every week as we tie together the conversations in our one minute radio programs and our podcast I write about it in a blog and martha edits it to make sure that it's good because I Write like I talk and that's not always appropriate for writing But we release that blog in an email that goes out every friday.

We would love for you to sign up for our blog

Martha: Yeah, so you can go to iWork4Him. com and there you can subscribe to the weekly email that will come out. And it's just another way in this journey where we're all learning how to better connect our faith and our work that we can walk the journey together.

So maybe you listen to the Power Thoughts every day, and then you caught the podcast that, as it released, and you're hearing this. Theme throughout the week friday. We'll kind of recap all of that. It might be a personal story it might be an experience that we had something that Jim or I have been convicted of or Walking through that we want to share with you In a way so that we can all learn to be to grow closer to the lord, whatever that might be Because walking out our faith in our work takes a relationship with Jesus Christ and that all is intended to build together and so that we can all be growing and the, this whole idea of with the workplaces across.

The world becoming a mission field. It already is a mission field. It's just that we haven't necessarily embraced it. So that's that journey can be just enhanced by being a part of the blog. So how do they get signed up? Go to iWorkForHim. com and there is a button for blog and you can go there and sign up.

Jim: Wow. Oh, just that easy? That easy. Okay. All right. We try to keep things simple. So we got these five steps of the iWork4Him Nation covenant. It's really a covenant between you and God. We call it the iWork4Him Nation because it's all these people. All these Jesus followers from across the country who are living out their faith at work, and they're making a commitment to start seeing their workplace as a mission field, to start seeing their workplace as a place where they can be in ministry.

You're praying for your co workers, bosses, employees by name each and every day. You're looking for ways to serve them over and above what your job requires you to do. You're looking for ways to befriend them outside of work through creative ways. You're looking for ways to pray with them when you notice they're having a rough day.

But none of that matters. Except for this, and if this one point is off. Excellence. Everything about you needs to be defined by excellence in your workplace.

Martha: You know, God gave us the gifts, talents, and abilities that we bring to our work every day. And even when we're not in a position where we feel like all of our gifting is being used.

We still are called to work with excellence, you know, Colossians 3 23, it talks about, you know, working as unto the Lord. So even if you have a tough situation in your work, and it doesn't feel like what you do really matters. Nobody would be hiring you to do the job if it didn't matter. If it didn't need to be done, no one would be doing it.

So they've decided that that job needs to be done by someone. So do it with excellence in a way that reflects Jesus Christ. Because if we're sloppy, if we're late to work, if we don't do what we say we're going to do, if we don't meet deadlines. Then how is anybody going to even listen to anything else that comes out of our mouth because we are not living a work of integrity.

Jim: And let's just say that most of the time you do operate with excellence, but one day you just screwed up. Here's the beauty of being a Jesus follower. You just say, I'm sorry. And you just ask for forgiveness because you didn't do things the way they needed to be done. That says so much because people around us need to see we can admit when we're wrong and ask forgiveness.

That's something people don't do. They just don't do, but when we do it, it speaks to excellence because we want to serve with excellence. So those are the five steps. And we described that all of that, all of these steps and talk about how will we expand all these points inside of our books? Martha, how can people get copies of our books as cheap as possible?

Martha: Well, the best way is to go to the bookstore on our website, iworkforhim. com forward slash bookstore.

Jim: That's iwork, the number four, him. com, forward slash bookstore.

Martha: And this link will be in the show notes as well. Down below. But if you go there. Is it down below? You're really good. Yeah, it is down below.

Okay. You're good at that, Jim.

Jim: Everybody does that in their YouTube videos, but I look down below and I'm like, where are they looking?

Martha: Yeah, you have to open up the description. So it depends on how you're watching YouTube on your phone, you're not seeing very much.

Jim: Maybe our fantastic producer Todd T. Riley could put it maybe right here on the screen when we're talking. Oh, there you go. iWork4M. com forward slash bookstore.

Martha: Okay, in the bookstore, you will see an option to purchase the PDF version of our books. And if you buy one PDF of one of our titles, it's 5. If you decide you want another title out of the three then it's 10, but you're going to get the third title as well.

So you're going to get all three versions of our book. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him in PDF form for 10. Now, if you want the hardcover, there's links there, you can go buy the paperback version, the audiobook, whatever fits your needs. But we've just tried to make more options out there for you by making the PDF available for you.

Immediate download. And you know, Jim, I just wanted to also tell people, if you join the nation, Besides all the benefits internally that you will get, we actually have bumper stickers that we send out, window stickers, a window sticker, because, you know, we never put anything on our bumper. We actually put it on our window now on the car, but I've put it on my laptop.

I've put it on my suitcase, lots of different places. But it's just that reminder,

Jim: we got a friend named Johnny drives around our hometown of Maryville, Missouri. Yeah. What's he have it on the back of the back of his scooter, his scooter, his, his powered wheelchair. There you go. He's got, iRetire4Him going on there.

Yes, he does. Okay. But we want to give you that sticker. Yeah. We've got pictures from around the world of people doing this. Go to iWork4Him. com. And click on the resources tab and join the nation

Martha: excellent We'd love to see you join the nation and together we're going to walk this road Of living out this way so that our workplaces our mission field in our workplace that jesus has given us can be changed for his name.

Jim: We want you to check us out online. Lots of different places online. Our website, IWorkForHim. com, but also on all kinds of social media platforms. We've just gotten on Rumble for our videos and Truth Social and Telegram, and of course we're still on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and YouTube. Lots of different places to check out iWork4Him.

Tell your friends about us. Let us let them know that there's lots of resources out there. 2000 podcasts. Tell me any other title. It's got 2000 podcasts out there.

Martha: There's not very many. You know, you want to binge on them on some podcasts for the weekend. You have a few choices to make.

Jim: And if you want to have a laugh, you should watch some of the ones.

During COVID when we were figuring out this video part that's back in podcast 1700 or so. We've got lots of resources out there just to encourage you to live out your faith wherever you go But especially in your workplace and for those of you that are coming up on retirement check out iRetire4Him I partner up with an 82 year old friend of mine That's from the retirement reformation and we talk about all kinds of Of issues that are facing retirees and sheWorks4Him martha focuses with her co host on lots of issues folk Facing christian working women all these resources out there online You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host jim and martha brangenberg.

We're christ followers in our workplace We figured it out. It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him!

7/26/23 - 1999: The Birth of iWork4Him

Jim: You've tuned in to iWork4Him, the voice of collaboration in the faith and work movement.

Martha: We are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, and our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now!

Jim: You know, everybody's got a story, and our story is unique, and yours is as well.

Today, we're going to jettison back to almost 17 years ago to the origins of iWork4Him. You see, in 2006 or before 2006, I was one of those people. I was a believer in Jesus who lived out my faith vibrantly on the weekends, but on Monday, I switched it off and operated in business just like everybody else.

I was one of those people who would embarrass Jesus with how I worked and how I behaved in the marketplace. I was one of those guys, but this is a story of how God took me from who I was to who he could use more effectively. Martha, let's get started telling a little bit of our story.

Martha: Sounds like a great idea, Jim.

Jim: You know, our story, our stories intersected when we were 13 years old.

Martha: They did. You know, it's pretty cool because God had an idea that we didn't have any idea of. And when we were 13 years old at a youth conference, we both committed our lives to full time Christian ministry. And did not know what that would really mean for the future, but of course we assumed it would mean some staff position in a church or a mission field, and we met three years later and discovered that we both had that same call on our lives.

Jim: It is pretty amazing when you think that God intersected our lives as 13 year olds with that commitment to full time Christian ministry, but honestly, back then and even today when somebody commits themselves to full time Christian ministry, where do you think they're gonna go? Well, you naturally think that they're called to work in a church, maybe be a pastor of a church, or go be a foreign missionary somewhere. That's what we're talking about today because that is not what it means. It could mean that, but for the most part, 99. 5 percent of us, that call to full time ministry is right where you work. Alright, so, Martha, what's really cool is that we met, we were in high school, we did a lot of ministry together, and then we decided to what?

Martha: Uh, get married?

Jim: Yeah! Get married!

Martha: Well, we dated, and then we got married. We did and in that whole process, Jim, we both felt very compelled to business. We both loved aspects of business. You know, I dreamt of working in a high rise at one point wearing a navy blue suit every day thinking that that was where God had me. And we always had this tension with our entrepreneurial bend and our, our desire to, fix things and make, make things work and organize things and bring order into chaos for people's businesses and things like that.

How did we do that and still live out this call that we felt that we had on, or we knew that we had that call on our life? But we didn't understand how it would fit in with being entrepreneurs and running our own business. And that was a real struggle for us.

Jim: So when we got done with our degrees, we got married. We get done with our degrees. Yes in that order. Then we bought our first house and right after we bought our first house I enrolled in seminary because I thought, well, the natural thing, if we're going to fulfill the call on our lives to full time Christian ministry, I need to go to seminary if I'm going to be a pastor. So I enrolled in seminary and God sends the senior pastor of our church to me and says, Jim, I don't think you can handle having 400 bosses.

I just don't see that your call is to pulpit ministry, ministry within the four walls of the church. You see, because pastors, everybody in the pews, they're the bosses of the pastor. And I was kind of entrepreneurial, and that can be a little rough, and so I unenrolled from seminary.

Martha: And you did that more than once. We had different occasions where, you know, we thought, okay, maybe now it's time to be in seminary. And in the meantime, Jim, you know, we had business people around us that were basically giving us the example and even using words to say, you know, your role in the church is to be on a finance committee or to help raise money for the new building. Work and church are very separate and that's how we were told to keep them.

And so, you know, we worked with the youth, we volunteered in the church and music and I was the treasurer. We did lots of different things like that. But we didn't see that this entrepreneur of this business, the nine to five - it wasn't really nine to five, so I hate to call it that, but that those working hours were not really ministry.

Jim: It was sad and to have the mentors in our lives that we did, we just really were confused and we constantly felt that tug like we just need to work really hard so we could support the ministry that we did do outside of our work and the church that we were a part of. But it was, it was a frustration and, and really what were you going to jump in and say?

Martha: I just want to say, I bet you there's a lot of people listening right now that can relate to that, that they have, have either grown up with this idea that there is a disconnect between ministry and work. And what they should do about that, you know, that, that tension that we were feeling when we weren't living out this calling that we felt like we had on our life.

I would imagine that many of you have struggled with that as well. And that's why you're listening to this show, because you are wanting to find new ways to better connect, make that connection and better understand God's idea of work.

Jim: Yeah, I got tired of living with the guilt. I mean, I was constantly feeling guilty, like I had made this commitment to God as a 13 year old to full time Christian ministry, and I wasn't doing it.

I was 33 years old and I still wasn't doing this full time ministry thing. And yet, none of the pastors who had stopped me from going into seminary because I really wasn't called to being the pastor of a pulpit pastor or a church pastor, none of them had the language to say, Jim, you're really called to be in the marketplace.

Martha, what's really cool is that we took time to share our stories, to write our stories down in a book. And we'd love for you, our audience, to get a copy of those books. And we've tried to price them as reasonable as possible. Martha, we've made it so that people can get PDF copies of our books really easy.

Martha: Yes. So, you have several options, but if you go to our website, iWork4Him. com, and go to the bookstore, you will see there an option to actually purchase the PDF download so you can get the book today. You don't need to wait for anything to deliver to you. If you do that, they're just 5 dollars. And if you select - we have three titles, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him. And if you choose two of the titles, you get the third one free automatically. So you don't have to make a choice. So for 10 dollars, you can get all three PDFs of the book for you to take yourself and to read and to hear more about the story. Not because it's this great story, but because we see the story that God has written.

And, like you said at the beginning of the show, Jim, everybody has a story. God is writing a story in each one of us, and what we know to be true is what we do with that story.

Jim: And we think our story is going to resonate with you. And if you're like me and you like the smell of the ink, you can buy hard copies, too. Well, on paper kind, not the hard cover copies, but you know, paperbacks, there you go. Like the ones on the bookshelf right here in our YouTube video. You can get that on our website as well.

Martha: And we'll put the link in our show notes. But also Jim, if people want, you know, an audio version, what's really cool about our books - and then we'll get back to the story - is the fact that we had every author that helped contribute to our books read their own chapter. So when you get the audio version of the book, you will actually hear the voice of the person actually writing their story and it just brings it to life and has so much interest.

And you know, I think sometimes I like listening to audio books, but sometimes you when you hear the same voice for the whole time, it can get a little on and on and on. So there's no monotone involved in our audio books.

Jim: 52 different voices in our audio books! You can get them all online. Go to our website. iWork4Him. Com. It's I work the number 4 him. Dot com.

You know, Martha, I think what was amazing is that at 33, we merged our insurance agency with another insurance agency in Southwestern Minnesota, which was the beginning of a process right after we'd gone through crown financial ministries.

And we made a commitment to really making sure that our finances glorified God. That was the beginning of a process that God was - really shifted our paradigm because right after that the doctor told you hey Martha's never going to be healthy living in the frozen tundra of minnesota all the time. You guys need to get south. Go to florida. Get near the gulf coast, and that should solve most of Martha's health problems.

Martha: Which it did!

Jim: I was going to say, Oh, who doesn't like a prescription to that Gulf coast? I mean, so we moved to Florida and at 37 years old, we moved to Florida. It took four years for that to accomplish. And then we were really in crisis because we had sold everything we'd ever started.

Okay We thought well, maybe this is a chance that we're going to be in full time ministry. And I had a bucket list of things I was going to work on. And again, we were still a little confused by this whole deal. We moved into a great church, into a great small group and we were still struggling with what is the call on our lives?

But Martha found her sweet spot. What did you get to do?

Martha: I for a decade ran a christian retail bookstore and that was an amazing opportunity to see God's hand in people's lives each and every day. But yet, as we were walking this journey, Jim, of, you know, number one, being in a new place, saying, Lord, how can you use us? Learning. I don't want to steal the thunder because you know, you really had some eye opening moments with new friends that we found in Florida.

Jim: That's right. And we did. We found these great friends. So really the story of iWork4Him started in 2006. I got a new job and I was driving 90 miles to work and I'm a talk radio guy. I've been listening to talk radio all my life. And in the morning you turn on the talk radio and you listen to the blabbing thoughts all the way there and you know, it's mindless chatter. But it's sometimes fun and sometimes it's political, whatever it may be. I just made the commitment, you know, Lord, I'm not gonna listen to the radio on my commute to this new job. I'm gonna learn to pray. I just want to learn to pray. There should be power in my prayer.

I don't have power in my prayer So I just started praying .I made a commitment just to pray in the morning And I started just praying for my family. And so my kids and my grandkids, which we've got a lot of them now. Back then we didn't really, just had a couple of grandkids. Now we have a whole hassle of them, but I just started to pray.

But then my good friend Bob sent me a devotional in 2006 called Today God is First by Os Hillman. Still goes out. TodayGodisFirst.com - I believe it is, but by Os Hillman. Martha had that link in the show notes as well. And that was the very first time that I heard that my work mattered to God, that my workplace could, in fact, and is, in fact, my ministry place. A mission field full of lost and hopeless people who need to meet Jesus, and that I was placed there so that those people could meet Jesus.

I was 40 years old before anybody ever told me that. It's so ridiculous.

Martha: Well ridiculous, but yet so great because it would finally happen And so when I was alluding to new friends, Bob was one of those things. It was like, okay, the Lord had to maybe take us out of our comfort zone, take us to florida, surround us with new people that we had to meet, new jobs, new opportunities, and then we got exposed to this new concept that isn't really new, but we didn't have this understanding that our work was our mission field. That the people around us are our neighbors, the people that we're with every day, you know.

We always physically think of our neighbors in our neighborhood. But who, you know, that cubicle next to you is full of people that you're next to every day. That is a neighbor in your work. And we never really, we finally understood that and we saw that opportunity differently. And so what an amazing fresh start it was for us to look at the people that God put in our - we were authority over them. We had influence over them - we could now see them as a ministry.

Jim: It was really cool and God kind of laid those steps up so I started shifting my prayer time in the morning from not only just praying for my family I started to pray for my bosses. And at that point time I had four of them. My bosses and their families, my co workers and their families, my employees after I got some employees and their families. I started to find out what did they specifically need me to pray for.

It's just a whole process of how did I shift that paradigm in my mind to become a workplace believer? That we call the iWork4Him nation and we're going to talk about that in our next podcast, but Martha, maybe right now we should just tell people how they can see what that's all about.

Martha: Yeah. So we talked about our books and we wrote out the steps to the iWork4Him nation in there, but I will also put a link in the show notes for today about the, iWork4Him nation.

And it's not joining a group. It's not paying anything, but it's really making a commitment and saying, you know, Lord, I want to commit to these things - this new way of looking at my work. And we will talk through those steps in our next show. It's like an awakening It really is and saying I am making a commitment. I'm covenanting with you. That's a big word. To actually make a covenant to say, Lord, I want to be different and I want to commit to these items, but basically getting the mindset that every day when we go to work, Jim, it's a new opportunity to serve the Lord because we're the hands and feet.

He created us to be really good at what we do. So, why not give Him the glory? Why not, look at our work that way? And so, you can check out more when you click on the link for the iWork4Him Nation. And like we said, next week we're going to talk about it in great detail.

But what's amazing, and I want listeners to hear this, is the fact that, like, Jim, when you started that new job and you felt convicted to pray in the morning, and then God continued to open your eyes up to scripture that pertained to your work, and all these things were changing in your life, you didn't know that this was going to be like a five point covenant that people were going to, you know, commit to. You didn't know even that iWork4Him was going to exist someday. But now when we look back at it and we see how God was working in our lives, it's so amazing.

And I hope that each and every listener right now is looking at their own life and going, okay, I don't know where this is taking me, but God is walking me through some things. God is changing some things in you. And maybe it's something that we say, maybe it's something you're reading in your devotions in the morning. Maybe it is a person that you've met that has, you know, asked you some hard questions, but it's all going somewhere. God does not give us those opportunities to to lay, you know on feral ground. They are to become fertile and it's exciting now I can talk about it right now.

Jim: But I think you should probably, we need to finish telling the rest of our story.

All right, you just let me know if you're ready to go.

Martha: I'm ready. Okay, i'm ready.

Jim: So but you may be asking okay, that was 2006 But jim and martha you didn't launch iWork4Him until 2013. What happened with those seven years? Well, it took a while to really understand this.

And then once you really understood that both of our jobs, Martha's job inside of a church actually was a ministry, and that's a whole nother story. And my job in the marketplace as an insurance risk manager, which is really what I was doing on an it manager, those were more ministry places. It took a little while and then the whole world fell apart with the great recession in 20, uh, 2008 and 2009. And in florida was really rough for a lot of years. And we started another job. We started some different things and I just started to look at the behavior of other believers in the marketplace in it.

And sometimes I just want to wake up. I started to see them probably how people used to see me in it. And I'd say, please don't tell people you know Jesus, if you're going to act that way, because that's not working. I mean, I don't know if you've noticed, but people look at Christians sideways out in in culture today.

Because there's so much of our behavior that doesn't go along with who they expect Jesus to be. And that's who I was, and that's what I started to see. And a lot of that comes down to the fact that most of us haven't been discipled to recognize that our workplace really is supposed to be different. That our faith is supposed to impact every hour of our day. So, we started working on this model, and I said to the Lord, Lord, I know you want me to move ahead with what we're doing here. When you give me a name - because I don't really know what you're doing but I feel like you're churning something inside of me and Martha. We were churned for years on this.

Martha: Yeah, we really were and I mean that's just part of the journey, you know. It's part of the process of God growing you and starting to change your conversations to change your heart to change where you put your put your prayer life. All of those things. And then we just really felt like God really opened the doors for us to start being able to share that.

Jim: So November 20th, 2012, Martha's at work. It's a Wednesday night. I got the name. What? You don't want to tell this part of the story? Okay. All right. I mean, that's the night I got the name. iWork4Him. I'd written down 132 different names. None of them really, really mattered.

Martha: He's a list maker.

Jim: All of a sudden, I got iWork4Him. I, Work, the number 4, him. I'm like, Wow, that's pretty good. And I so I bought the go daddy websites and free plug there and that was the beginning and I said Lord. Okay, you gave me the name now what do you want? What do you want us to do with this? I can see that we're going to be doing some mentoring and discipling of people out there in the marketplace. But what what is iWork4Him?

90 days later I was speaking at an event right before we launched the Christian Chamber of Commerce in Tampa Bay, which still is in existence today, c3tb. org, and I was talking about five ways to incorporate your faith in your workplace. And that day, after I was done speaking, I sat down in the room next to the only person I didn't know, and she looks at me and she says, what?

Martha: She says, Jim, that needs to be on the radio. This whole idea of talking about your faith in your work needs to be on the radio.

Jim: And I looked at her like she was psycho and had five eyes on her head because I'd never ever thought about being on the radio. I like being in front of people, but to make a long story short, as you know, we've now been on the radio and on podcast for a decade.

Martha: In fact, what number is this show, Jim ?

Jim: This show of iWork4Him is 1,999.

Martha: Yes. That's right. It's pretty amazing.

Jim: The next one's 2000. Wait till you get to that one. It'll be really good. Big number. So we just started talking about, we just started capturing the stories of people living out their faith at work and connecting them to resources that we've also found out there available to disciple workplace believers.

And that's really what iWork4Him has become. We're a challenging resource out there. We want to challenge you to have your faith impact all of your life. And then we want to connect you to a ministry that can do that discipleship and drive you deeper to your knees in your faith.

Martha: So I think it's crazy that you know, as we talk about this story, how it's It's been over a couple of decades, actually, that God has been working truly in this conversation for most of our, since we were teenagers, this whole idea of ministry and what does that mean.

And what's been awesome is that for 10 years, we've been hearing the stories of what God's doing in people's lives all around the world. So much cool stuff. And you have been walking on that journey, or you might be brand new to the podcast. Either way every show, we desire and attempt to show you something that God is doing so that it can inspire you or challenge you or encourage you where you are in your work. And that is really what we're here all about. So As we are recording 1999, number 1999, Jim, it's amazing to look at what

Jim: Reminds me of a Prince song. Party like it's 1999!

Martha: Hey, maybe that's why purple is one of our iWork4Him colors. But, you know, let's talk about just briefly what's ahead because, uh, it's a great question. Each one of us probably ask that every day.

Jim: How do you know what's ahead?

Martha: We really don't.

Jim: We don't know what's ahead of us. I mean, you mean like shows? You mean like what we're planning?

Martha: Where we think we're headed.

Jim: So our goal this fall is to really bring you continued great stories of people living out their faith in their work, conversations about topics that you and I just can't wait to hear about. And we're going to tie everything we do together each and every week. So our blogs that we release on friday are going to tie to the podcast that releases on Wednesday. It's just going to tie to the five One minute radio programs that we do and everything we do is going to be about a certain topic for a week Like our next podcast is all about the iWork4Him Nation. What are those five steps to shift your paradigm into a workplace, a place of ministry? In fact, your mission field.

Martha: Because we know that repetition is the key to learning.

Jim: So we're going to repeat it often.

Martha: We're going to repeat it often.

Jim: But then again, we're going to say it again. And then Repeat it.

Martha: Maybe recap it and say it again. So Okay. When we hear a great story of what God's doing in somebody's life, you know, and there's lessons to be learned if we, if we hear them in different ways and, and different soundbites, it just helps all of us in that process. So we hope that you'll go along with us on the journey.

Make sure to subscribe to the iWork4Him Power Thought, which is released every day on radio stations across the country. On all the podcast platforms, you can find the iWork4Him Power Thought as well as the iWork4Him podcast so two different streams that are out there. And on the podcast you're looking for the picture that has us celebrating 10 years.

Jim: We're also on lots of different social media.

Martha: Yes, we are. Yes, we are. So and we're attempting to get on some newer ones so be looking for us if you have a favorite, whether you're using Rumble or Truth social. These are things we're all learning. We just want to make sure that you are in a space where you are going to get your information. So let us know what that is.

So if you have any comments and you don't see us somewhere, You can just email me at martha at iWork4Him. com.

Jim: That's martha at I work the number 4 him. com In addition to Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, we're out there in a lot of different places, and really, if you've got some time, watch it on YouTube. Watch our podcast on YouTube, then you can see us interacting with each other, because it's... It's kind of funny. I don't know. I mean people that know us think sometimes it's funny. You should see the things that martha does to me in the studio. But if you're just listening to the podcast, you don't know.

Martha, I would love to be able to give our story away to somebody today.

Martha: Okay. All righty So, if you are listening and you are interested in getting a copy of our book iWork4Him, let me have you email me at Martha at iWork4Him. com. So send me an email, tell me you're interested in a copy of the book, and then we will give that away on the next recording that we do, Jim. So let's do that. We'll announce it on the podcast.

Jim: So check us out online, iWork4Him . com. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Rumble, True Social, Telegram, just search for iWork4Him.

Martha: Jim, happy 1999.

Jim: 1999! I can't sing, forget that. You've been listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace is our mission field, but ultimately, iWork4Him!

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest - that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's @ iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.