7/18/23 - Steve & Jackie Green: Guided by the Bible

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd t. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Steve and Jackie Green, co founders of the Museum of the Bible and president of Hobby Lobby.

We'll be focusing on how they lead and strive to create a culture of belonging at both their organizations. Steve and Jackie Green. Welcome.

Steve Green: Great to be here. Thanks for having us.

Jim: We're so glad to have you guys So before we start talking about your leadership roles and your perspective on how God is using you to create a culture of belonging at Hobby Lobby, Tell us both of you and what Jackie will - ladies first - How you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered in the midst all the things you're doing.

Jackie Green: Well, that's a really big question. And I think it starts with just personal faith. You, you have to work at it. It's sort of like a muscle that you have to exercise, right? If you don't work at it, it's gonna go lax. And I think that's the same with our faith. I think we, you know, through prayer, through reading God's word and those times with God, and being in a, in a, in a church for us, it's really important to be fed. So I think that's, that's where we would start.

Jim: But you guys travel all the time. Jackie, do you guys have a small group that you get to meet with that is your core people, your people, your, that you and Steve hang out with it? You know, you could share with them and they pray over you and keep you in line.

Jackie Green: Well, I do. Steve and I together are in a small group, although we have our church family that we're really connected with, but I have a group of ladies that - we call it therapy there. There are 10 of us, we call it therapy 10 and that we meet once a month and we, we share prayer requests.

That's mainly what we do, is how can we pray for one another and stay engaged and connected and know what's happening in each other's lives? Because everybody, you know, at this age, we're all really busy and going a lot of different directions. So that's been really essential and helpful for me.

And then family, we have our family group, Steve and I, we have six kids, you know, and there are 18 of us now with our kids and grandkids and our son and daughter in law. And so we have a fam bam and we pray for each other through that too, and put out prayer requests. So that's really been helpful.

Jim: That's very nice.

Martha: Incredibly powerful. So Steve, how about you? What is it that you - how do you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered in the midst of all that you're leading?

Steve Green: Yeah, I would say that similar what comes to mind mostly with the faith is being in God's Word, being in Scripture.

I read it daily on a regular basis. Many years I will do a plan where I read through the Scripture in a year. This year I'm not doing that. I'm focused on the Psalms and the Proverbs. But I also - one of the small groups that we have is our Sunday school class at our church. And there's three of us that teach.

So I'll rotate teaching. And so I'll kind of do maybe reading broad sections throughout the year, but when I do a teaching lesson, I will go deep in a small passage, just whatever that passage is, and we'll just try to go deep in there. There's a couple of ways of getting into God's word and obviously scripture says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.

So the more I get into scripture, I think the stronger my faith is and, and that's a core. And being, you know, staying Christ centered, what comes to my mind there is I think God has a way of doing that just by bringing challenges through life. Everybody faced challenges just over the last few years. And for 2. 5 weeks, we had all of our stores closed because of COVID when it first came on. And you know, it drives you to God. It drives you to say, God, what? What's what's going on? What do we do? And so I think the challenges of life are what really drive us to stay in tune with God.

Jim: Yeah. What drives you to your knees is what makes you closer to Jesus. No question about that. So as leaders of the Museum of the Bible and a leader of Hobby Lobby. What are you what have been the keys to creating a culture of belonging for your teams there? Steve? Why don't you start off?

Steve Green: Okay, I think that it starts with having a purpose. You know, obviously directly a purpose is to be the best we can. We want to be the best craft retail that we can be. We want to provide the service the product that our customer wants at the best price.

There is a purpose. And so those that we bring on, we want them to be the best they can be because that's what we're striving to do. And when you're all working for his same goal, I think it's a bit of a definition of fellowship. It's two or more fellows in the same ship, two more people on the same side of the struggle.

And so when you take the challenge of being the best you can be, then that brings some community. But I think there's another layer, another level of that, and that is why we want to be the best we want to be, and that has become more public over the years, starting with when we started putting newspaper ads in the newspaper at Christmas and Easter, which ultimately led to us closing our stores on Sundays, and obviously we became very public with the, the Supreme Court case.

And a lot of that - just is behind that is a bigger purpose that we have and that is to be a light in our world. We want to be as profitable as we can be because we're giving half of our profits away. And as we do that, we're sharing the love of God with as many people as we can. And there are many people that we think that we attract because they, they are attracted to that bigger purpose. And that I think helps develop community.

Jim: Steve, let me just, as a follow up to this one, you got, I think last I'd looked online, 43, 000 employees or something, but some ridiculously large number. I'm sure you don't have it down to the number. These are not all believers that work for you. So you've created a culture of belonging, no matter what people believe. How does that play out because that's a challenge because you want everybody to know you don't have to sign up and sign a statement of faith in order to be able to work at Hobby Lobby.

Steve Green: Right, right. And I think that goes to that first purpose of just we want to be the best retailer. And there is a certain amount of pride in your job when you know you're doing a good job. So some may not have an interest in what our bigger purpose is. But just the pride of doing a good job and you know, that's what we're striving to do.

And we're finding and looking for those that want to do that as well. And they don't have to have the same Christian belief that we do, but if they're doing a good job then that's what we're looking for is good people. And we have thousands 40 some odd thousand good people that make this company the success it is.

Jim: When we come back, Jackie, we're gonna ask you, what are some of those challenges you deal with as you guys have built the culture at the Museum of the Bible and together you continue to influence Hobby Lobbies across the country. You're listening as we talk with Steve and Jackie Green. Hang on for a minute. We'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back. We talk today with Steve and Jackie Green about creating a culture of belonging. Martha?

Martha: So Jackie, let's talk about culture that you have an influence over and you've seen some of the challenges that are there that keep kind of push back against creating a belonging culture. What, what have some of those challenges been?

Jackie Green: Well, we have a long list of challenges. But I would say that, you know, over time, we've had a challenge, just first of all, as a family with our family business. You know, and many people know the challenge that we've gone through with our stance for life and and freedom of religion and, you know, that was a big deal.

So it was a big challenge, I would say. And then also on a personal level, we've had challenges with our, within our family and with our children and some loss of children and our grandchildren and things like that, that have been you know, real. You know, you can't separate your, your workspace from your family space completely, right?

So I usually talk into the family space and Steve goes into the workspace. So the emotional part though, that comes alongside when you have challenges at home and within your family or within a marriage, I think are very real things that people don't look at. And that might be a different direction than you thought I was going to go with that question.

Martha: No, but I love it because really the reality is, is all of your employees at all of your locations are dealing with those same things as well. So, you know, finding out how to See everybody as real people that they're dealing with them Just like you are and and you know, I think that's one of the things that God gives us those challenges; It's how your people are watching you and how you respond as well, so...

Jackie Green: Well, and I will say that Steve and I, early on in our marriage, you know, we Felt such a strong conviction mutually that if God gave us children, that those children would be our first ministry and our home. And so regardless of what we did you know, at work or in every area of our life, the main thing was for us, our children. And that's the first ministry that God gave us.

And so trying to keep them and our home a priority has been a challenge, but also something that we've found we need to be very intentional to do. And it's worth it. You know, we've all heard the saying probably that in the end, you don't hear people on their deathbed saying I wish I'd spent more time in the office. What they'd really long for would be more time with their family and the people that they love.

So we've tried to keep that a priority. And and of course it is a challenge when you're off and you're traveling and you're doing, you know, big things, big things that seem important to the world. But you know, what's really important is like, don't forget, it's important for you to be focused on your home too. And that we don't wanna lose and forsake our children and our marriage for winning the world. So that's been important.

Martha: Amen

Jim: Steve, Jackie brings up a great point and she did take us on a different direction. I love it because honestly the livelihoods of thousands and thousands of families in america depend on you and Jackie staying married. And the reputation of the Lord is on the line on you and Jackie staying married. And you got your six kids and their spouses and their families all looking to you for leadership in marriage. And obviously, Steve, I've met your dad. I know you had a great example at home. How are you guys making sure that your marriage stays strong when you have all these things pulling at you in so many different directions?

Steve Green: Well, obviously when we had our six kids at home it was more of a challenge to spend time together because life was busy raising our kids. We homeschooled for 13 years, our first four kids and life was busy, but we did it together and enjoyed it. We are fortunate today that we're able to spend more time together because Jackie has been more a part of the Museum of the Bible, where she was not and did not have the time to spend with me when our kids were at home and were homeschooling.

I would travel overseas and be gone for a couple weeks at a time. But we're in a different season of life today. And each season's different. Each season has its challenges. But I love being able to do Museum of the Bible with my wife.

Martha: Hmm. You know that you just made a really great segue because I want to talk about the Museum of the Bible a little bit.

So most listeners have probably been in a Hobby Lobby store, but I'm guessing there's a lot of people listening that have yet to be at the Museum of the Bible. And we have had the privilege of being there several times. We tell people about it all the time. And I want you to take a moment just now. Jackie, maybe you can do this and tell us about the heart behind the Museum of the Bible and what your hopes are and the vision for its future.

Jackie Green: Well, the mission statement of Museum of the Bible, or a portion of it, is "inviting all people to engage with the transformative power of the Bible." And so, you know, we love that. We feel like there are people that love the Bible that come into the museum and they are encouraged and inspired and they're growing and they're learning new things. And it just helps give them, you know, just add to their foundation that they are living their life by.

So on the other hand, I love that there are people that don't necessarily know anything about the Bible that come in and they are learning and exploring and have opportunity for growth there too.

So I, I just, that's one of the things I love is that it can reach anybody. Wherever they are in their knowledge or understanding of the Bible, it's going to do something for you. You're going to learn something. And it's also very immersive. So it's for all ages. It's for children, it's for older people, you know, there's going to be something that's going to be fun and immersive and interactive in the museum for anybody.

We have a ride that you can fly through DC, you know, I mean, I could go on and on. But you know, we're pretty excited about it. And we, we love that people that are actually in the museum, we hear it all the time. It's, it's just something they love. They want to bring their family. They want to bring their friends, their kids' schools to come. And that's what it's all about. It's just expanding and inviting all people to engage with the Bible.

Martha: You know, and it's so brilliant because it's there by other museums. People can come to it from that perspective, maybe more inquisitive. They don't really know the Bible yet, but they can come because they've gone other places. And I'm just going to put in my little thing, plug there too, is your restaurant has to draw people in too because the food is so good. It's like I know I remember our first time over there I posted a picture on Instagram and like your social media people were all over it and they're like, oh, we're so glad. Do you like the food and I'm like, how could you not go there just for that even? So a great job there. Just anybody who's thinking about that meal.

Jim: I know right? It's in the top 10 of meals i've had in my life so...

Martha: It was so tasty, but such a great experience for every age and just like you said.

Jim: So, Steve, what about your vision and your hope for the Museum of the Bible for the future? Where's it going?

Steve Green: Well, and, to add on to what Jackie was saying as well is, you know, this, this book has had an impact in our lives in multiple ways. It's influenced our family. We both were raised in Christian homes. It is formative there. It's influenced and been informative in our business.

First statement of purpose is we strive to operate our business according to biblical principles. And we are blessed to be in a nation that has seen great success primarily as it has followed biblical principles. Our nation, our family, our business, none are perfect, never have been, never will be.

But to the degree that those principles have influenced each, it has served each well. And so, it is for that reason that we're inspired to say, we want everybody to consider this book. We want everybody to consider the principles of this book because If they follow the principles of this book, we believe it will serve them well. It will go well for them to the degree that they do.

And so that is the goal is we want to invite all people to invite as many as we can to consider this book. And one of the specific ways that I am focused on is trying to be an influence to leaders. Obviously, the more of an influencer we can have into the museum and it influences their life and their realm, the greater the impact is.

The museum's greatly enhanced when there's a guide that takes you through it and can teach you. And so we're looking at doing just some one day events where that we want to bring in leaders, whether it be business leaders or political leaders, church leaders, to encourage them and inspire them to live out their faith in their realm.

And so as they do that, they have a huge influence on those that they're leading. So that's a bit of a target. Obviously, lots of things, but that's a bit of the focus where I'm spending my time.

Jim: I'd love to see, actually have an entire day of Congress right there on location at the Museum of the Bible. And as Jackie mentioned, we could make them all go through that ride, that flyover at D. C., and to see all the scripture on every one of the buildings, so they could see it. That'd be fantastic.

We're talking with Steve and Jackie Green today. You may know their names. They're connected to Hobby Lobby and the Museum of the Bible, and we'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back. Today we talk with Steve and Jackie Green from Hobby Lobby and the Museum of the Bible. Jackie, this question's for you. What are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian leader?

Jackie Green: Well, I think two simple things are love God and love others. And they sound very simple, right? But we know in the day to day where the rubber meets the road, that can be hard. But I think it's just, if you can have that at the forefront of every day, just love God, which means a lot of things, you know. How can we love God? And there are a lot of ways to do that. And love others in a plethora of ways that we can love others that we happen to come across in our world.

Martha: Steve, anything to add to that?

Steve Green: Yeah, I would concur, say the same thing. You know, scripture says, you know, Christ said all the prophets are built on those two principles is to love God and love others.

And if we love God first, he's going to guide and direct us to love others and care for others and, and understand their lostness if they don't know him. And the desire to let them know about this salvation that he provides and offers. And when the family kind of came together and came up with their own mission, vision and values, that was at the core of what we wanted to do as a family, stated a little differently. But bottom line is to love God and love others. That's, that's what we try to do every day. we fail, but that's what we strive to do every day.

Jim: I think if our, just imagine how different our world would be if as Christ followers, all of us just loved God and loved people in everything that we do every day long. How, how different the world would be if we would just strive to do that each and every day.

All right, final question for the day. As we close out the podcast, Steve and Jackie Green, what leadership idea or thinking would you like to share as an investment in those listening to the podcast? Steve, you first.

Steve Green: So the thing that comes to my mind is a lesson that has been taught to the family often by my dad. There was multiple family meetings and the very first one was one where he didn't know if our company would survive, and obviously God did. He was crying out to God saying hey God I don't know how this is going to work. You have to intervene if it does. And one of the lessons that he took from that, and has really been a guiding principle for us, is that God owns it all. This is not our business. This is God's business. We're just stewards of it. And it's easier said than done. And there are times when God challenges us on that.

Oh, that's easy to say, but do you really believe it? And so the, the idea of not just saying it, but Understanding it, realizing it, and living it to where that you're just seeing yourself as being a steward of what God has entrusted to you. That's what we - is a core principle that we try to follow each and every day.

Martha: So what a great thing to just impart on other leaders that they can maybe just be reminded of that daily. So Jackie, what about you? What is one thing that you want to leave our listeners with today, especially as we just have this conversation around your leadership and where God has allowed you guys to live?

Jackie Green: Well, I think along with what Steve says, stewarding well and giving everything to God, but also allowing him to be your guide, you know, and walk in obedience. We've had to learn. Well, we didn't have to learn. We did learn. We chose to learn this valuable lesson. And that is to, to know that God calls us to a purpose, right?

And that we don't have to be necessarily equipped, but he equips us. He, he gives us what we need and the value that we need. And the ability when we walk in obedience to him to to do whatever he's calling us to do. And for us, it's been so much more than we ever dreamed it would be. And you know, of course we didn't do it alone. We had a great team, but to walk with a humble heart. And I think that it's so important to pray this prayer of, you know, asking God to just help us to have clean hands and a pure heart when we walk humbly before him.

And I think he can put us in leadership roles where, you know, you're going to have challenges, right? And we, Steve and I were talking earlier about this challenge that we saw, you know, the whole world saw with a couple of guys that were in a public space, right, with Will Smith and Chris Rock. You know, what happened just this week but the, the nugget that Denzel Smith shared with them was so pertinent and relevant. We were talking about it with our 15 year old and Steve, do you want to, do you have that quote? What did Denzel say?

Jim: Denzel Washington, just to make sure.

Steve Green: Yeah, Denzel Washington, and he said that he told Will Smith, at your highest moment be careful, that's when the devil comes for you. So, that was a lesson that Will Smith learned this week.

Jackie Green: And I, we just, we were talking about it with our teenagers. You know, it's just so important because when you're in a leadership role, you have such an opportunity to impact so many people and influence others. And to use that well and to use it wisely is so important and it's a gift and a blessing too.

Jim: So many more things we could talk about, but I know we're out of time and I just want to say thank you, Steve and Jackie Green, for making time today for just sharing from your hearts for all of the podcast listeners. Thank you so much for taking your time today.

Steve Green: You bet. Thank you for having us.

Jackie Green: Thank you.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest - that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

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7/11/23 - Faith Search Partners: Cultural Influencers

Outro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way.

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Dr. Andy Westmoreland and Za'ndra Bishop with Faith Search Partners. You can find them online at faithsearchpartners. com. We'll be focused on how they lead and strive to create cultures of belonging, not only at Faith Search Partners, but in an organization that loves Jesus near you. Dr. Andy Westmoreland and Za'ndra Bishop, both senior VPs, welcome.

Za'ndra Bishop: Thank you.

Andy Westmoreland: Thanks, Jim and Martha.

Jim: All right, well, great. We're just grateful to have you guys here today.

Before we get started talking about your leadership roles and how you influence leadership roles through Faith Search Partners, Talk about how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered and your influence Christ centered. Za'ndra, you go first.

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah. I think that, you know, it's a journey. I will tell you, I've had different phases of what that looks like, but number one, I'll say my community. That's kind of what guides me on a regular basis. I believe having that accountability person or whether it's my husband or whether it's my mother or my community at church, just being able to say, Hey, let me pray with you. Open up to me, you know, don't just isolate yourself.

And then I would say the other thing is just my time with God every single morning, every single afternoon. I truly believe in taking a pause throughout the day and being able to really reflect and really be able to kind of look up at myself and say, Hey, God, help me right now.

So I, that's kind of what keeps me grounded. And then I'll say the last thing, but it's actually one of the most important things for me is praise and worship. I am a big person about singing and dancing and, and I believe kind of letting the spirit shine. I'm not one of those Baptists, which I am Baptist, but I'm not one of those Baptists that shy away from dancing and just letting the spirit runs through me.

Martha: That's so good. So Andy, what about for you? What are some things that help you to keep your faith grounded and centered on Christ and all that you're doing in leadership?

Andy Westmoreland: Sure. Well, Martha, first, I want to say about about Za'ndra that actually she is Dr. Za'ndra Bishop. And so Jim and Martha, you really, you have a pair of docs here on your show today.

Martha I appreciate the question and I'm glad to throw in a nice word about Za'ndra and, and so I would say many of the same things that Za'ndra said, except I guess I would talk a little bit more about the having focused and a disciplined approach to prayer and beginning every day that way.

I do keep a list of, every day of the month, I've got a list of friends that I pray for on on that day of the month. Years ago when I was in university administration, I decided that I wanted to pray for all of our students and I recognized that every student had a birthday. And so it became part of my regular pattern to pray by name for our students on their birthday, and then send them a little, a little letter you know, later that day expressing hope for them and a bit of encouragement, but it's that active and disciplined and focused prayer life that I think has probably had the most impact on me over the years.

Martha: Wow. And the intentionality in taking that step, that wasn't easy, but I am guessing had huge impact on the students. I couldn't even imagine being told that you know, someone in your position was praying for me in that time.

Andy Westmoreland: It was easy and and it had far more impact on me than it had on the students.

Za'ndra Bishop: That's the natural gift of a prayer warrior right there.

Jim: That's right. And it is true. When you pray for other people, your heart gets shaped.

Za'ndra, my apologies. I didn't catch it. I just checked your bio. I missed the DM at the end. I apologize. Please forgive me. When somebody works hard to get a doctorate, you deserve to at least be called doctor once in the show because that's hard work. I hope God never asked me to do that.

Martha: So thank you for bringing that up.

Jim: Yes, thank you, Andy.

Martha: Za'ndra , I'd love to hear from you. As a leader, what are you, you know, what have been some keys to creating a culture of belonging that your team at Faith Search Partners experiences?

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah, I would say number one is really having a purposeful, shared vision. One of the Most amazing things that I love is that we are all trying to develop and in regards to connecting and coaching individuals towards developing who God has them to be in his kingdom, and then connecting them with faith based organizations where they can thrive, right? But the other thing I would say is just the, like someone just being able to be authentic.

I think that that's one of the most key things about creating a culture of belonging is knowing that we don't all have to be the same. God didn't create us all the same. And really how can we be able to take that and build off of each other to be as great as we can be and love each other through our differences, right?

So I would say those are kind of the common things that I see that faith search partner does very well and our leadership really Strives to work intentionally to make sure we have a shared vision and that we move forward with authenticity.

Jim: So Andy, as a newly retired college president working with faith search partners, first of all Why did you choose faith search partners? Why do you think God led you there? Because Faith Search Partners is really an expert in the field of Finding phenomenal leaders that are Christ centered and plugging them into leadership positions across the country in Christ centered businesses and organizations and churches. You could have gone anywhere and been a president of a college again. Why faith search partners?

Okay, maybe not.

Martha: For those only listening, he's shaking his head.

Jim: Why faith search partners? And I want to answer that question first, then I can have a follow up on that.

Andy Westmoreland: Sure. Well fundamentally, it's the vision that Ed Fry, the president and founder, passed along to me. And look, I've been doing this, this work my entire professional career. And I recognized that all of these relationships that I have accumulated over the years, that it would not be good stewardship to just write those off and to go on. And then when I began to realize that the people that we would be helping to recruit and place in these positions would have impact for 10 and 20 and 30, and maybe in some cases 40 years, well, you just can't get anything more exciting than that.

And all of this for kingdom glory. And so I was, I was drawn to that whole understanding of what it is and what it can be.

Jim: So at faith search partners, you two are part of a team that helps shape the cultures of hundreds of organizations across the country. I mean, it's one thing to have influence over your own company's organization and creating culture, a belonging culture, but you guys have influence over creating a culture of belonging at hundreds of organizations by the people that you place, that you filter, put through and filter and prep, and then eventually place at organizations. Andy, that's a big honor. Also a big responsibility. How do you approach that?

Andy Westmoreland: Well, great question and I like to ask, as we begin the process with clients,

I like to ask the question: so what is the culture of your organization? And listen carefully to all of that, but then have the follow up questions: And what could your culture be with the right kind of leadership? And to kind of raise the stakes. We, we often, we often think that however things are, that's just the way they're going to be.

Well, that's not God's plan for us. That is so clearly indicated in scripture and then through the life of Christ. We're called to something better than we can imagine. And so I think it's important for organizations to not just look at what their culture is, but how it can be significantly improved.

Jim: But creating cultures of belonging is not an easy task and there's challenges. And when we come back, we're going to ask Za'ndra Bishop, Dr. Za'ndra Bishop, we're going to ask her this question: what are the challenges of creating a workplace culture, especially as you're placing somebody in to create that culture?

As we talk today with Dr. Za'ndra Bishop and Dr. Andy Westmoreland, and I'll never live that down, but stay tuned.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with - none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book iWork4Him, by going to iWork4Him. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself. You're working for the Lord!

Jim: Hey, welcome back. As we talk about creating a cultural belonging, our two guests today are from faith search partners. Faith Search Partners online at faithsearchpartners. com. We've got Dr. Andy Westmoreland and Dr. Za'ndra Bishop with us. Za'ndra specializes in working with non profits, medium and large non profits, and placing great leaders in those non profits to lead cultures, not only great cultures, but cultures of belonging.

And Dr. Andrew Westmoreland, Dr. Andy Westmoreland works with Christian colleges and universities to do the same thing. Za'ndra, Martha's got a question she wants to throw your way.

Martha: I do. So, you know, this is such an amazing position that you guys are in where you are not only impacting your own work culture and being a part of that, but the culture of so many organizations that you get involved with, with placement and getting people in there. So what are some of the challenges with this theme of belonging? What are some of the challenges that there are in creating a workplace where people do belong?

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah, I think number one, from my experience, as well as just research, it really kind of dives back into the leader.

And the self awareness, to be honest, that's one of the key things, someone truly being able to take a step back and say, Hey, what are my insights? What am I bringing to the table? What type of culture am I bringing to my group? Right? Cause many people feed off of that energy. The other thing that I would say is with that is the consistency.

Of the investment in people. So, and I want to say in and with, because those are two different things, right? The big picture goes back to, we hear the words, diversity, inclusion, belonging, you know, those are things people have so many different definitions for them as well. And then we have the formal definition by SHRM, but the end result in regards to belonging, people still want to feel value.

They want to feel recognized. They want to feel appreciated. And in order to develop that culture of belonging, you really have to build constant, consistent, intentional building blocks of engagement. Now, what does that look like? Right? That may look like different things with different organizations and the people, but ultimately it still goes down to just getting to know the people you're talking to, not based off of what job responsibilities they have.

Of course, that's important for business outcomes. But really, who are you? Who are you beyond that role that you're taking? And I think that, those slow, what I say, "touches," kind of goes on to building that culture of belonging. It builds that community that we're trying to, and it also allows people to be seen.

I think many times, no matter what culture that you're in, people want to be seen. They want to be heard no matter how much money you bring in, or if you're new or if you're older generation or younger generation, if you're Hispanic or if you're Asian, they want to be seen. And I think that's kind of where leaders have to take that time and slow down a little bit more and really put that apart of their strategic plan to putting people first versus just looking at business outcomes and the revenue.

Jim: But when you look at the cultural diversity between generations, I mean, just even on this podcast. So we've got you, Za'ndra, from a younger generation and Andy from an older generation. We call it, we call us older generations "chronologically superior folks." There's the the idea behind shaping a culture there, but we have different ideas.

Because Andy grew up in a - cause I'm assuming his age, he's maybe a little older than we are - grew up in a culture where we don't really care what you think. Just do what you're told. And where the younger generations, they... oh, no, that's what our cultures were like.

Martha: It's generalization.

Jim: Generalization. Yes, of course. And, and then the younger generation is like, we want to make an impact. We don't want to wait till we're in our fifties to make an impact. We want to make an impact now. And we want to belong now. And we want to teach you chronologically superior folks the things that we know along the lines that chronologically superior folks want to teach the younger generation.

So there's, there's just going back and forth. So Andy, how do you deal with that? Because you guys are placing people that are going to direct culture. And you're in higher education, which is known to be a little stodgy and slow moving for change. I know that's not categorically true, but, eh, pretty close.

How do you do that, and how do you create that atmosphere to help ferment the diversity between generations? That was a terrible, terrible question, sorry.

Andy Westmoreland: No, no, you were right on. And let me let me answer from the perspective of an older person.

Martha: Chronologically superior, my friend.

Andy Westmoreland: And a chronologically superior person. And you know, if you want a good biblical text for this, go to Ecclesiastes 4:13 . "Better was a poor and wise youth than an old and foolish king who no longer knew how to take advice." You remember that one? Okay. Wow. Does that ever relate to what we're talking about right now?

Because regardless of how old you are, when you get to the point, That you're no longer taking advice. You're no longer listening. You're no longer learning. You're not engaged in in truly a a continuous approach to learning in your life, then I don't care how old you are. You're going to be irrelevant pretty soon.

And so you know, you can be 90, which is like two years older than I really am.

Jim: Oh, brother!

Andy Westmoreland: And still be relevant if you're if you're listening and if you're learning. And Za'ndra and I are now engaged in working together in three different searches. And it's been a delight for me to watch her and learn from her just just as you are doing Jim and Martha in this, in this podcast today. So I think that's that's that's the trick. Regardless of your age, we got to know how to take advice.

Za'ndra Bishop: And going back - just to add to that - going back to the belonging is knowing that we're more than just one factor, right? We're more than just our age. We're more than just that ethnicity piece and so, you know, Jim, one of the things that you brought up was You grew up in like, "get it done."

Well, that's how I grew up too. You know, I grew up with a single mother and she was like, "get it done." And so I think when we have all of those different elements, that's what makes us well rounded people, right? And that's what makes us so impactful to be able to lead and be able to build these faith based organizations that can impact the world. So I just want to make sure that we're definitely looking at what is the true wording of belonging and diversity and inclusion in order to make sure that we're all thriving.

Jim: There's just no question that as Christ followers, those words should be at the center of what we do because Jesus included everybody.

He didn't look at the different - he loved everybody. He didn't care about what the socioeconomic class they were from. He didn't care what the color of skin was. He just loved people and that was so important.

Let's do a little commercial because I want to do a little commercial for FaithSearchPartners. You guys work in different spots of expertise within FaithSearchPartners, but I personally know faith search partners. I have referred faith search partners to business leaders that I have influence over because I know of the power of placing somebody who truly is a follower of Jesus at the top of an organization.

Talk to me about what's the best referral for you guys. Because Faith Search Partners has really made an impact across the country. Za'ndra, share what's a good referral. What's the kind of case you want to work on?

Za'ndra Bishop: So you don't want to ask me that question because I'm probably very different from a lot of the leaders, but I like challenge cases.

I like organizations that have either have this problem that they're trying to solve a very brand new position or they have some gaps somewhere where they need us to come in and also assist them with some management consulting work and help coach them throughout the process. So I like challenge types of projects.

Of course, the easy ones, where they have a solid board, they have, you know, 20 million revenue budget. And, you know, their team is way to go. I mean, those are easy cases. We'd love to have those. And of course we can match those, but I love the challenge. I love to be able to help people see the potential in where they are and how we can grow them from there. Cause I feel like those are things that can be testimonies for other organizations.

Jim: Andy, what about you?

Andy Westmoreland: Yeah. You know, one of the things that I'm learning as a newbie in this field is the extent to which technology now really does work for you in helping to recruit new people into your organization and faith search partners has an amazing research team. And you know, time was you had a vacancy, you put it in a couple of trade publications and you kind of circulated the word around and then people responded or they didn't. Well what happens now in the search process is much more sophisticated and targeted using, using lots of information. And so I think that this is going to help our organizations to get better.

And I'm also like Za'ndra. I, I like a good challenge, too. And part of the process that we use through the assessment that we provide for our clients is to provide them with some almost consulting advice about things that we hear from their stakeholders that they may or may not be aware of that can really help them in their organization, and also in refining the search that is underway.

Jim: When we come back, lots more as we talk with Andy Westmoreland and Za'ndra Bishop from Faith Search Partners. Hang on.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town? Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be.

Go to awakenpodcastnetwork. com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends. You will find a gathering place of podcasts that provide simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out awakenpodcastnetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back with Za'ndra Bishop and Andy Westmoreland, both of them from Faith Search Partners. If you're looking for a new leader within your organization or to replace a leader within your organization, whether you're a business, a church, or a Christian non profit, higher education, you need to check out faithsearchpartners. com. I personally endorse them because we have referred people to them and they do a great job. A great job. All right, Martha.

Martha: So we're talking about leadership and, you know, we all want to lean in and hear a little bit about other leaders.

So Za'ndra, let's start with you. What are a couple of core principles that guide you as a Christian leader?

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah. So I would say the first one is really based off of a Bible verse to be honest. And maybe it's because I'm a female and maybe going picking on Jim a little bit, maybe because I'm considered quote unquote young, but at the same token, I would definitely say, you know, first Thessalonians 4:23 , which just tells me I'm enough, you know, because Christ I'm enough.

And with that, you know, one of my core principles is really just honing in and taking that time to understand who I want to be and who does God call me to be? And that's with that integrity, that's with that excellence. So that's kind of one of my number one. And then the second thing that I would say is really Proverbs 4:23, which is really focused on really guarding my heart.

You know, sometimes we guard everything else, but we don't really guard our heart and making sure what I put in and also be very careful of what comes out at times, but really being able to be humble. And that's what I'm saying is guarding my heart and having that gratitude is really, really core principle of me. In order to be able to lead appropriately and see people the way I would like them to see me to a certain degree and, and ultimately the way God sees me.

Martha: So Andy, what about you? What are a couple of core principles that guide you as a Christian leader?

Andy Westmoreland: Well, the the principles that I've talked with students about over the years tend to be confidence and humility, and Za'ndra began to address those in in her comments as well.

I used to speak only of humility because I don't really have a problem with the confidence part. You know, I do that pretty well. And so I guess I was preaching to myself over the years about the the value that comes from brokenness and, you know, and understanding you can't do it on your own.

And, you know, all of those things, that humility. And then I began to have conversations with, especially with students, who had problems the other way. They just, they got the humility thing. It was just that they didn't have the confidence to get out of bed in the morning and do what God called them to do.

And so I began to understand that it is in the tension between those two, between confidence and humility, and walking that line and I think they're each essential and so that's been it for me.

Jim: I love that. It's so good to just, I mean the humility thing. I mean we all need to be humiliated because that's what makes a great leader. That's just great. I mean, it's just so true.

All right, so Well, as we close out the podcast, here's the final question of the day. The Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders come to invest the best of what they know in other leaders, whether those leaders are up and coming or those leaders are existing.

Dr. Za'ndra Bishop, what is one thing you would love to just espouse on this audience to just share your wisdom with this audience as a leader?

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah, lots. But I would say the number one is I believe in like embracing that experimental mindset, which does not have to be cookie cutter. Try new things, jump in there, ask questions, discover, fail. And enjoy the process. I mean, those are kind of the simple things of that mindset. And I think that so many times we don't, we're not trying to experiment because we want everything to be perfect. And we say we want to be innovative, but we still don't want to experiment. So that curious mindset, that experimental mindset, that is one of the things that we definitely have to embrace.

Martha: So I'm curious how you've applied that in your position. Like, have you gone to companies and said, you know, think, I don't know, you tell me, what does that look like when you've had those conversations with a client?

Za'ndra Bishop: Yeah. So I will say, you know, with many clients, they're very hesitant and they're like, what do you mean? That's not a part of our plan right now. You know? So it's really that education piece really helping understand that. It's really small pieces of conversations that build that can be built into your strategic plan but I would say ultimately, As they're trusting you And they're having that relationship with you and you're showing proven ways that that can be embedded into Everyday situations and it's not too much of an investment of a leader or manager, Then they're more susceptible to say, I'll try it out.

And by them doing that and saying, okay, I'll try it out. That's already changing their mindset of having that experimental gauge. And knowing that even if, you know, we use the word failure, I really like to use the word " reorienting" the way we thought about things. We went out. We sought it. It did not go the way we originally planned it to go, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily failure. It's just another opportunity for us to pursue it in a different way.

Jim: It's not wrong. It's different. Andy, what about you? When you look in investing the best of what you know in the leaders that are listening to this podcast today, what's one thing you'd love to share with them?

Andy Westmoreland: I promise that Za'ndra and I did not coordinate this in any way, but, but here it is. It's a line that a mentor and pastor gave to me 40 years ago. And he said, never structure your life so that if God chooses to change things, it will make you uncomfortable. And when the guy said it 40 years ago, I had no idea how much impact that simple statement would have on me for so long, but it's true. And we do need to be open to change in our lives and in our organizations. And it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Jim: Don't structure your life so that... Say it again.

Andy Westmoreland: Never structure your life so that if God chooses to change things, it will make you uncomfortable.

Jim: Because God is going to change things. There's no way, no way in 40 years God didn't change things two, three, four, five, six times.

I mean, that's, that's good. We need to roll with the punches because yeah, we serve a living God and he wants to be able to guide our steps into the right places. While we could have, we could go on forever and ever and ever, but. Listen, audience, if you've ever thought about placing, you need help finding the next great leader.

It doesn't have to be your top leader in your organization. It could be one of the top leaders in your organization. Faith search partners could be your partner in this solution. And you've just met two of their top rung leaders that help people get placed in organizations. Thank you, Dr. Za'ndra Bishop and Dr. Andy Westmoreland for being on the podcast today.

Za'ndra Bishop: Thank you, Jim and Martha.

Jim: Thank you. It's been a lot of fun, za'ndra, thank you for keeping me on my toes.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. She works for Him. Him and I retire for him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

7/4/23 - Tom Lin: Reaching Every Campus for Christ

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation today coming up with Tom Lin, president and CEO of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. We're going to be focusing on how Tom leads and strives to create a culture of belonging at InterVarsity and how they do that to all the organizations and the campuses and everywhere else that they spread the ministry of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship across the country and around the world.

Tom Lin, welcome!

Tom Lin: Thank you. Great to be with you, Jim and Martha.

Jim: You know, Tom, before we get started talking about your leadership role and perspective of how you created culture of belonging at InterVarsity, tell us how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered.

Tom Lin: Thanks. Great question.

I mean, I think when I think about keeping faith strong and keeping Christ centered in, in a very difficult, complex world today there's really, I think about the ways that I'm able to connect with people. And they connect with the Lord. So I think I would say two of the ways that that happens for me anyways, is making sure that I have input from a global community.

So I'm often in today's world challenged and inspired by the majority world, my brothers and sisters in Christ, who in other parts of the world and making sure that what, what their lives are about, the ways they're following Christ, what they're learning. that I'm learning those things as well. You know, my faith is inspired and strengthened when I look at brothers and sisters in other parts of the world.

And so that global community input is so crucial, I think. And I'm glad to have spent some of my, my years abroad and Having being a part of a global movement as well help. So, so I think this global community is really key for me anyways, and keeping my faith strong. Then I'd say that other area is connecting with the Lord.

So I do try to commit regular rhythms of retreat. And right now my team sets aside a day, every quarter for a retreat. I have an annual multi day retreat where I just make sure I have that time of solitude away. I have a great mentor who meets with me and those regular rhythms of retreat are so key to keeping my faith strong and Christ centered.

Jim: We've had many people tell us that. We haven't figured out how to just walk away, though. You have more staff, maybe, at InterVarsity, but I love that. You mentioned mentor. I want to jump onto that, because this is a question we haven't asked a lot of the leaders on the Outcomes Conference podcast recently.

Talk about your mentor. How many years of your leadership have you had a mentor? And how important has a mentor been in your walk with Christ?

Tom Lin: Yeah, great question. I've had different types of people walk with me at different seasons of life. The current spiritual mentor that walks with me is Leighton Ford, Dr. Leighton Ford. Leighton generally is a great mentor to me in these retreats that I take. He's also helped me start a mentoring group myself, actually, and that's one of his Ministries as part of Leighton Ford Ministries. But I do have a multi day retreat every year in North Carolina. And we meet together beforehand.

We meet together after. We meet during, and this is one of a time to process things that God's doing in my life and things that I'm hearing, things that I'm challenged with. So that's, that's, I would say one area of mentoring that is really important to me, probably about the last 10, 12 years with Leighton.

But certainly in different seasons has been different types of mentors, different things that I've needed.

Martha: Very good. So I want to talk about what are some of the key ways that you are creating a culture of belonging at InterVarsity?

Tom Lin: Wow. I mean, this is a broad topic. I think maybe just to give you a snippet of just a couple things that we're doing to create a culture of belonging I think the first area would be making sure we create safe spaces or group spaces where a variety of our staff can be heard.

I think in today's day and age, you know, with so many diverse voices out there. How do we hear? Well, how do we listen well to our staff? And when you have a diverse staff team like we do it takes a lot of work. And so we want to make sure we create these, look, we call them affinity groups.

And so whether it's our black staff or our staff who work with international students or Our our moms that are on staff or you know, whatever group it may be, We create these spaces where we can hear well. We've launched employee resource groups, Which is very common in the for profit sector. So we've got a variety of employee resource groups where Those staff can gather together.

They feel like they belong because they're connecting with like minded people with like minded struggles. And then me for me as a leader, I get to hear their concerns, their solutions, what would help them feel like they belong as well. And so, so that's one way. It's just making sure we have these kind of spaces for people to connect with each other. To be heard to be celebrated. That kind of thing.

The second thing maybe I'll mention is this is what I call - and I'll talk about it at the CLA conference - opening our eyes to the confederate flags in front of us. And so I was with a major ministry leader, leads a mission organization that you'd be familiar - with a couple thousand missionaries as part of it, and they wanted to see their workplace be more have more of a culture of belonging.

And and so he asked one of their one of the trustees on his board, you've been with us for a few years. What do you observe? And the trustee said if you open your eyes, you will see in your office, there are confederate flags everywhere. Of course, he didn't literally mean confederate flags, but we said if we, if you open your eyes, you see symbols, artifacts, things that are happening, things that are said that make certain people feel not welcome or not belonging.

Right. And it could be signals that say those of your political persuasion are not welcome. It could be signals that say those of you who are women are not welcome here. It could be other symbols or artifacts that say, you who are a staff of color, this is not the right place for you. And so I've kind of latched onto and said, and challenged our staff, like, what are the areas when we walk through the office, when we walk through our organization, where are those confederate flags?

What do you see? And opening our eyes to seeing, perhaps, in ways that we've never seen before, so opening our eyes to see is, is a huge thing.

Jim: And what a great way to describe one of the most, one of the biggest challenges to creating a culture of belonging. If people feel alienated, they're not going to feel like they belong. And identifying those things that make them feel alienated, that's powerful. We're talking with Tom Lin today from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back with more from Tom.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job?

Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book, iWork4Him, by going to iWork4Him. com. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself, you're working for the Lord.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. As we talk with Tom Lin today, CEO of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Tom, what are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian leader?

Tom Lin: Oh, that's a great question. A top two. I think as a chief executive, I'll just speak from being a CEO of an organization.

I asked the question, what is the unique purpose and vision of the organization that I lead? What is the unique purpose and vision of the organization I lead? And secondly, what can I do as a leader uniquely? So how do I allocate my time, my talent, my energies in a unique way? So those are two key questions that guide me each day as a Christian leader in terms of what I'm what am I supposed to do.

Right? What's the unique purpose and vision of the organization? And what can I uniquely do that perhaps others cannot? And that helps guide some of those actions for me each day.

Martha: So to give a little bit more context, let's talk about InterVarsity in terms of how big the culture is like paid staff, volunteers. What is the reach that you are ultimately leading?

Tom Lin: Yeah, we have about 1600 employees, 1600 all American, you know, based in the U S. 1600 employees. We're on about 800 university campuses across the country. Reaching, you know, anywhere from 50 to 70, 000 students, depending on you count undergrads, graduate students, PhD students, professors.

So that's, that's our mission and that's our unique mission, you know, purpose as an organization.

Martha: And the 1600 employees that are in the U S, they're all in all 50 states, roughly?

Tom Lin: They are. They're, they're in all 50 states, everywhere, wherever there's a university campus, we try to be near them.

Martha: Wow, you know, I just, I think it's so good to have that perspective because we're not just talking about, you know, I mean, we still need to very intentionally lead the culture if you're in an office with three people, but the challenges that might come your way when you are dealing with 1, 600 plus that all the volunteers and And everybody that you're dealing with, you know, is quite amazing.

So in that process of leading them, what does the role of listening play for you as a leader?

Tom Lin: Yeah, it's absolutely crucial. As I shared before, I think making sure we connect with these affinity groups, listening to staff is so crucial. So I think of how can I best listen to others and then there is the listening to the Lord as well, listening to the Lord and discerning, which is probably the most needed skill today. And leading through complexity, I would add, is how do you listen to the Lord and discern well? It's a very tough skill.

Jim: So leading through complexity, I like that. I like that. Listening to the Lord and leading through complexity. That that's good. I want to make sure I emphasize that.

Tom Lin: That's right. Yeah. And so I do what I can to, to find those spaces again, where I can listen to others and then find those spaces where I'm listening to the Lord.

Right. And, you know, I can share more detail if that'd be helpful. I mean, I think yeah. It's it does take a lot of intentionality to, you know, engage our 1600 staff. We'll do that formally through like an employee engagement survey. So what are our staff really saying out there? So what does the data tell us?

I'll do that in terms of inviting. I invite about a dozen of our staff to my living room every year for three days and I just listen to them and they're, they're kind of of a strategic group, right? And, and what are these 12 staff have to say that I need to listen to? And I try to listen to my board members.

I try to listen to other trusted leaders of other organizations. So I'm listening, intentionally going to people and trying to listen. And then of course, Those retreats I mentioned to be intentional to listen to the Lord.

Jim: What do you do when you hear something that you didn't like to hear?

Tom Lin: Well, you know, honestly my first reaction is probably the natural human tendency to to defend myself to say wait I don't know, But you don't know this or you don't know that. Right? And then when, when that kind of defensive posture has passed I asked questions. Can you tell me more? What am I not getting here? What do I not understand? It's hard. Certainly as, as leaders hearing critique, it's difficult. You know, we've invested so much in the organization, so much in leadership.

But as my staff always remind me, it's not just about the effort, you know, it's the outcome. Right? What's the outcome? What's the impact on others that you're having? Your effort could be great. Your intentions could be great, but what is the actual impact on the individual? And that often can only be answered by the individual. And so I need to hear it well, listen well, ask more questions to understand, and then respond.

Martha: As you lead the organization InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, how do you, as a leader, continue to learn? Like, are you intentionally putting yourself out there for learning opportunities, and what does that look like?

Tom Lin: Yeah, great question. I'm a big believer in continuous, lifelong learning, and I do that for all of my executives on my team as well. And, Certainly it should apply to the CEO as well. For me again, as I mentioned on the mentoring part, so making sure I have mentors, but I do engage in everything from formal program...

so about a decade ago Harvard Business School executive education program, right? So there's formal programs. For some executives, it's some seminary and I had my seminary degree a little bit earlier in my leadership career. And then yeah. One of the most, I think, practical, informal ways to keep learning is to serve on boards.

And so, serving on boards where you're interacting with others who you can learn from. You're learning from other organizations at the same time. I've joined some CEO groups as well, so. I actually have a group of five other CEOs that I meet with twice a year. They're the heads of the five other largest campus ministry organizations or youth organizations.

And we meet together twice a year to pray, to learn, to share what we're learning, to ask each other questions, to keep each other accountable. It's a wonderful group. And so, instill that lifelong learning.

Jim: Everybody always thinks they know everything about InterVarsity because it's, you know, it's a common household name. Tell us one thing about InterVarsity that most people don't know.

Tom Lin: Well, you know, yeah, InterVarsity has been around for about 80 years. What people may not realize is that InterVarsity is just one movement as part of the International Fellowship of Evangelical Students, we are the U. S. movement of an international fellowship. Over 160 countries have their own student movement, and what they might not realize is InterVarsity is actually not the largest in the world. The largest is arguably either in China, or in Nigeria, or in Kenya. They, depending on how you count, again, they might have larger movements.

Ethiopia actually has a campus ministry on every single campus in the entire country. You know, they're a little bit smaller country than the U. S., but that tells you something about the size of their ministry. And so I don't think a lot of people realize the global nature of campus ministry and, and how so many other majority world countries have significant ministries bigger than the U. S.

Jim: Wow. We're talking today with Tom Lin, the CEO of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. We'll be right back.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town? Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be.

Go to awakenpodcastnetwork. com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends. You will find a gathering place of podcasts that provide simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out awakenpodcastnetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We're talking today with Tom Lin from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. Tom, when you consider InterVarsity Christian Fellowship today, what are you most enthusiastic about in terms of pursuing your mission and your impact?

Tom Lin: That's an easy question for us. We're fully focused on and fully excited about what we call our 2030 calling today. Our 2030 calling is a longing to see revival on every single campus in the country. It's a... Ambitious goal is to see some kind of movement of God established on every campus. There are actually about 2, 500 campuses, university campuses in the U S with over a thousand students.

And when we started this four years ago, when we launched this, more than half of them had no campus ministry, no witnessing communities. We don't say that there's no Christians there, but there's no Christian community on that campus. And so we, this vision just captivated us and what I love about this vision - and it's really just exciting - is that there is great collaboration happening.

So when we set this vision, around the same time, we called our friends at Cru asking them what they were hearing from the Lord and both Cru and InterVarsity together are the two largest campus ministries. And so when they said, actually, we're hearing a similar thing, and then we started talking to each other about what would it mean to pursue this together to begin forming a coalition of campus ministries that would say, we want to see a ministry on every campus.

So what can we do to help each other do that together? Right? Together, we launched EveryCampus.com. It's a coalition, a place where you can see a variety of groups. You can, you can see actually the data on that website of every campus. You can pray for every campus there, you can log in your prayers, and you can see what campuses are currently not being reached.

And so this kind of kingdom minded collaboration, it's so exciting for us. That just gets me up every morning. I'm really excited about that. And the goal we have is ambitious, but I believe God's in it and and we're working together with a variety of our partners.

Martha: You know, what a great example you are setting for just ministries everywhere to see that we're not in competition with each other. We may have different lanes that we play in or different ways that God is asking you to walk that out, but working together for the good of the gospel is what it's all about.

Jim: Yeah, and I love the way you guys are driving that back into the high school youth groups, to be able to connect the kids who are seniors in high school with the ministries that they can get plugged in before they get on campus, so they don't get lost and become part of the lost generations of kids on campus.

I've been following this for several years, and that's very exciting. Both our kids made it on the college campus, but it was one of those things where you're praying and I'm like, please get connected those first two, three days, such a big deal.

Tom Lin: That's right. We hope, you know, anyone who's watching or listening today, I hope if you've got children at that stage of life, please ahead of time, look at every campus, look at any campus ministry ahead of time and connect your children to these ministries.

Martha: And you know, I even just had a thought as an aunt and an uncle or a friend, you may have actually better influence over that teenager than if mom and dad do it. If I say to my nephew, Hey, I heard about this, you know, maybe, you know, anybody that you care about, let's get the word out there. Everycampus. com is a simple way for people to start that journey and getting connected, and we're so excited that you guys are doing that in a collaborative way.

So I want to ask this last question for the show today. Tom Lin, what is something today that you can share with the leaders that are listening to this podcast that you can invest into their lives?

Tom Lin: Great question. You know, I think if I were to share maybe what I've been thinking about more recently, sort of a leadership idea. that I've been pondering. I think it has to do with data. Data today. So, and the word that I'll use is disaggregation, disaggregation. So we live in a world that focuses a lot on aggregate data. Trending data, right?

You look at social media, it's trending data. We have a lot of surveys that give us data that we want. But I think the skill of a leader today is both being able to use that data, analyze it, trust it, you know, make decisions based off it, but also the skill of disaggregation, being able to say, you know actually sometimes we need to disaggregate and say, things are not always like that.

And so the example I'll give is We look at especially the negative news on social media. We look at the trending data that says the church is in decline. We look at the trending data that says People are losing their faith, that young people no longer believe in Jesus. Right? But as a leader, I've got to say, you know, actually, that church down the street, that local pastor is doing amazing things.

That ministry over there on that campus. Actually, people come to faith in droves and hundreds and hundreds of people are coming to faith. How can that be? You know, the data doesn't say that. So I think as much as possible, I've been encouraging other leaders to pay attention to both the aggregate data, you know. Certainly we need to analyze the data, but also utilize the skill of disaggregation to say, you know, all things are not like this, right? Whatever that data material may tell you because it's just an aggregate of A lot of different plot points. So how do we pay attention to the stories where God is at work?

How do we pay attention, even if it's not trending data, to that unique story, that bright spot where someone's doing something very innovative? What can we learn from that? So how do we disaggregate at times and take a step back? That's, that's kind of the thing I've been chewing on recently.

Jim: That's a great word. I love it. Disaggregation. You heard it first right here. Tom Lin from InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, thanks for being here on the podcast with us today.

Tom Lin: Thank you. Great to be with you.

Jim: Thanks for joining us today. We hope and pray that this podcast inspire you to think about how you can create a culture of belonging from what you've learned today from Tom Lin.

Break: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest - that is your mission field.

To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him , and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/books.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him . com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

6/27/23 - Jacinta Tegman: Transformative Leadership

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation today coming up with Jacinta Tegman, CEO with CRISTA. Wait til you hear about this! We'll be focusing on how she leads and strives to create a culture of belonging at CRISTA. Jacinta Tegman. Welcome.

Jacinta Tegman: Well, thank you. Just an honor and privilege to be together.

Martha: Well, we are so glad to have you here. But before we actually start talking about your leadership role and your perspective on how God's using you to create a culture of belonging at CRISTA, tell us how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered.

Jacinta Tegman: Great. Yeah, well, I feel like we lead out of our relationship with the Lord, don't we? So I think for me, you know, if I want to be a great leader, I first of all have to be a great follower. And I think that's what really centers me is just trying to be a great follower of Jesus. So very intentional, you know, in spiritual disciplines, you know, sometimes I like to share something very exciting.

But I think for our faith journey, it's just like those principles that we know. We spend time with God in prayer. We spend time in his word. We spend time with fellowship with other believers who challenge us, encourage us, kind of call us out when we're not on the straight and narrow path of following Jesus.

And I feel like those really basic things that we've known and heard all of our life really come to play when you are a leader where you're kind of put up a little higher. So you're exposed and who we are In the private is who we need to be in the public space and just try to keep that in mind, That in at the end of my term of leadership that people will be more in love with Jesus, not less Because of how i've led.

Jim: Well, that's a good one when my term of leadership is done that people will love jesus more When I leave them when I came. That's a fantastic goal. I love that! You know, Jacinta, as a Leader what have been the keys to creating a culture of belonging at CRISTA?

Jacinta Tegman: First of all, I would say it's like what are we calling people to belong to? We have heard a lot -There's a lot of noise, you know, in the bigger spaces today About inclusivity and creating these cultures of belonging, but what are we calling people to belong to? And I think as a Christian organization, as a Christian leader, what I want to call people to is to belong to the kingdom of God. And what are those principles that dictate, you know, how we behave, how we treat each other, how we act and what we are calling people to?

So trying to be really clear about what we're calling people to belong to. Like, hey, you know, we're all members of country clubs or swim clubs or, you know, horse clubs, whatever, you name it. But what makes the kingdom of God different?

So I think just being clear on that. And then the intentionality of choosing to see people as Jesus saw them, right? So creating that culture of whether you're, you know a Pharisee who Jesus reached out to, or the woman at the well, or anybody in between. That he was intentional in that call of calling people to himself. So I guess, you know, the central part of what we call people to is Jesus. As we take a step closer to Jesus, we are actually taking a step closer to each other. And when we try to elevate, you know having the perfect mix of attributes that are just external, you know, is that really motivating?

But I always find, like, if we're helping people. draw closer to Jesus, we actually, you know, by extension, draw closer to each other. And I think that's where real belonging really takes place.

Martha: So to give us a little context for your leadership, I would love for you to explain a little bit about CRISTA. And what it does, what it stands for, and also maybe how many people you have in your organization.

Jacinta Tegman: Sure. So CRISTA is the outflow of our founder's vision who started off with, if young people who were being sent to reformatories in the late 1940s could just meet Jesus, their lives would be transformed. And along his journey, he added radio stations and senior living, a school, camping ministry, and relief and development.

So we have five kind of main sectors, but the core of all of it is helping people find and follow Jesus. Like we exist to see those relationships develop. And we serve, our headquarters are here in the Seattle, Washington area, but our reach is global. So we serve over 3 million people a year both locally and internationally.

And we have over 1, 300 staff members that serve, you know, whether it's our schools or camp and ministry, radio, international relief and development, or senior living - kind of the, the height and depth and breadth of all of God's kingdom seems to be a part of who we are at CRISTA. And I think that main theme and that thread that finds all of these very diverse ministries together is that, you know, we feel like we're better together, that we leverage this incredible legacy and history that we have, but our outward focus is all about making and growing disciples.

Martha: Wow.

Jim: Wow. We take a while to recover from that whole answer. Amazing things that you guys are doing, but you're trying to create a culture of belonging, I mean, everything about an organization is the culture that's created and you're the CEO over a culture, over an organization. It is extraordinarily multifaceted.

What are the challenges that you face in creating a culture of belonging?

Jacinta Tegman: Yeah, well, again, it's being clear what we're asking people to belong to. And then when we're inviting people to join us, whether it's a staff member or those we serve, it's making sure that we're intentional in that we're making space at the table for everyone.

So for that variety of viewpoints and backgrounds. And I think it's like when I, when I go somewhere, whether it's a church, I look around and see, am I represented here somewhere? You know, can I see that this is a place where I could fit in, where I could belong? And so we're, we just try to call that out and be intentional in that welcoming spirit that people feel like, yeah, this is my family. This is my home.

I'm one of five kids. Which uniquely prepared me to lead this family of five ministries. And so we know that, you know, when you're in a big family, like I grew up in, you know there's different personalities, kind of different flavors, if you will. And the beauty of CRISTA , our intentionality, what some of those things that we're trying to overcome is that every single one feels like, Hey, this is my family.

I belong here. I'm welcomed here. I'm honored here. My voice is listened to here, right? And through that, create that culture where not only do we have that internally, but we're also projecting that externally so that people who, you know, have curiosity about anything we're doing or want to be a part of it they, they can say like, I, I can do that. I can be a part of this family, this open, welcoming community, loving family that tries really hard to represent Jesus and all that we do, but also to see people as Jesus saw them with value and intrinsic worth created in the image of God. And yeah, so it's kind of messy.

It's just like, think of family. It's all that, right? All that and more. And it's really fun too.

Jim: Yeah. We're talking to Jacinta Tegman today, the CEO of CRISTA. We're gonna take a break and then we'll be right back with more with Jacinta.

Break: Do you wanna make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job?

Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full-time ministry, right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with. None of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our book: iWork4Him, by going to iWork4Him. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself. You're working for the Lord!

Jim: Hey, welcome back as we talk today with Jacinta Tegman from CRISTA. Jacinta, what are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian leader?

Jacinta Tegman: Hmm. Well, I'd say first of all I am a servant of the Lord, right? So I, everything I do try to make that an expression of who I am in Jesus and that I play to that audience of one and trying to just always keep that really central. And then the second part then I would say is that I am a servant of the mission and the staff that I have the privilege of leading here.

So I think it's two focused, right? Always keeping Jesus in that top position. And then that I see myself as a servant to what God has called this organization to be and by extension then again Of those he's called to serve here and I think keeping those two things in focus really helped me You know kind of center me that it's not an ego thing.

It's not about you know a career step for me or an achievement of anything, but I think if I do those two things well Ultimately all those other things that really matter kind of fall in the correct order.

Jim: So what about the days when those top two core principles are being challenged heavily by the enemy or somebody, or people, or, or whatever? What do you do then? What do you have, what do you have built into your system to make sure that you get back to those core principles? Yeah, well, I mean, maybe you never have those days. Maybe you never have those days.

Jacinta Tegman: I have those days all the time. Just like every other leader, right? And some of it's not just what's happening externally, but even internally, like our own fears and our own insecurities are like, I have no idea how to react to respond to all the crazy that we've experienced in the last couple of years.

So first of all, I would just say, you know, I, I kind of keep that all in balance by my own schedule. So I'm an early riser and I feel like I could probably count on one hand the times that I haven't made time in my schedule to put Jesus first, to spend time with him in his word. And you know, when you're younger, and I was probably more of a doer in those days, but the older I've gotten, I realize it's not a doer, it's a be-er.

Like, I need to be with Jesus. I need to be full of Him and His presence in my life. And then, sort of miraculously, All those other things kind of come into play. So I'd say that's how I stay centered. And, you know, when you've heard this before, right? When people say the busier I, I am, the more I need to take time to pray, the more I need time to that.

And I'd say at this level of leadership and everything that I'm facing and all the things I don't even know I'm facing yet, but surely are coming, that is the thing that really kind of keeps me focused and grounded. And I just don't think there's any other way around it.

And then the second part is how I lead the staff and that we're very much mission driven. So again, a lot of competing things, and we have to look at everything through the filter of our mission. Is it going to get us closer to that or is it going to pull us away? And I think, you know, reciting it, saying it, focusing on it, reminding, inspiring, you know, kind of leading through that mission statement helps keep that central as well.

Like there's lots of great organizations, a lot of great things that we could do, but we believe this is what God has called us to be, you know, through our mission. You know, just staying anchored to it. Again, I would say nothing super, innovative in this, it's just the basics, it's the fundamentals of being right with God and then right in our mission and that kind of keeps us there in that space.

Martha: So I want to ask you about your path in, of leadership. So rising to the level of CEO of a major international ministry, you have, have to have had obstacles or spiritual battles along the way. Can you talk to us about that a little bit? What kinds of things have you experienced and how has God brought you through that?

I think for me, the big one there is just being really comfortable in who God made me. So early on again, you know, as I was feeling this call to ministry or something that the Lord had put a calling on my life, I kind of looked around at other examples and thought Oh, I would need to be this way or that way.

My husband and I did pastoral ministry and I Remember looking at other pastors wives and thinking like, okay, how do I make better cookies? I spent a lot of time trying to be other people and of course was Frustrating myself and others and then at some point on this journey realized God, you care about people more than I possibly can and you have made me this way.

I'm going to lean into those giftings and kind of let all those other expectations go to the side. So I would say for me, it's mostly about how I perceive myself and how I try to be other people instead of saying, well, Lord, I may not understand it. But I think you do the best job of putting people in the right place with the right gift mix.

I can lean into that. So, you know, it isn't like there haven't been external challenges, but I would say for me it was the internal challenge of, you know, kind of doing that assessment of who I am, who God called me to be, and just to press into that, try to do that well and kind of leave the other external things out there and not, not focus so much on those.

Jim: Wow. When we come back, I'd love to talk to you about how listening and learning have played a role in your leadership, not only at CRISTA, but in your life, in your career, because those are two key things that leaders really need to work on.

Jacinta Tegman, and we'll be right back.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town. We'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken podcast network is the place to be. Go to awaken podcast network.com and unlock God's purpose for your work.

With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provide simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out AwakenPodcastNetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We talk with Jacinta Tegman from CRISTA. Jacinta, I promised that I'd ask this question. Listening and learning, two key principles that have to be built into every leader. First off, how does listening Play a part in your growth as a leader?

Jacinta Tegman: I I would say, you know, sometimes I look at my leadership and I just quite honestly would say i'm not sure I'm a great leader, but I can tell you I try to be a great follower a great follower from of the Lord. And so first off You know, in order to follow Jesus, you have to hear his voice.

You have to listen to him. You have to make that a part of your life. So a big part of what I do in leadership is try to hear from God through prayer, through reading his word. I journal as I'm reading through the Bible, like, you know, when I read a passage, what is the Lord telling me through this passage as an example?

And I write it down because. I don't know about you guys, but five minutes later, like something really magical happened and I can't remember what it was. So I write it down and reflect on it, right? So I really try to hear, you know. I, I look at the events that were seen unfold in front of us in the world.

And I, I asked, well, what are you saying? What are you doing? And kind of have that posture, if you will, of listening to God, you know, in the big things like the macro level of what God is doing in the world, what he's speaking to me through his word and through the circumstances. And then the second piece is just making sure that I'm listening to both those I work with, lead with, and those we serve.

And for me, that's having that connection. So, you know, my office, when I became the CEO of CRISTA was kind of tucked away in a corner and I thought nobody's going to come walk the gauntlet back here to talk to me and how will I even know what's going on? So I moved my office to sort of in a practical way to be close to where I'm in the hub, where people walk by to stop in chat, and I always think you know, when I'm talking, I'm genuinely, you know, teaching or trying to convey something. But when I'm listening, I'm learning and I want to be a learner. And so I need to be able to be in proximity to people to actually hear from them. And through that, learn what's on their hearts, whether they're aligned or not, whether they have a brilliant idea or they're going down the wrong path, whatever the circumstances.

Maybe I think it's proximity to those I work with and those I serve to just know what's on their hearts and those two facets.

Jim: So you're saying you gave up the corner office with windows overlooking the lake So you could be in the center where people could come and have access to you as the leader.

Jacinta Tegman: That's right.

Jim: And how did that change the culture at CRISTA?

Jacinta Tegman: I think it meant that people would drop by and see me and I think it changed the culture because I was accessible and also I knew what was going on. I wasn't removed. And so, I think it's helped me to adapt. As I think of the needs that are ongoing, right?

But also it's helped me to have my ear to the ground, if you will, and that my finger on the pulse of what's the heartbeat of our organization and try to be in the center of that and what God is doing. You know, in my mind, I keep playing with this idea of the family with five kids and you, you know, trying to keep your your finger, as a mom, on what's going on with all of those kids, you can't be hiding in the laundry room as much as maybe you want to, you know?

Jim: Were you one of five kids, or do you have five kids?

Jacinta Tegman: One of five kids.

Martha: She's one, but in the organization, it's like she has five kids. I'm just playing this out in my head.

And so with that in mind, you know, as moms, we don't want to pick favorites or anything, but let's talk about something within CRISTA that you are very enthusiastic about, whether it's the overall mission and impact or one specific thing that is happening within CRISTA that, you know, you're just really excited about how God is moving in that area.

Jacinta Tegman: Thank you. Well, yeah, all of my kids are special. I remember when I had my second child, I thought, how could I love anyone as much as I love that first child? And when the second one was born, it wasn't that I love that first one less. It's that God expanded my ability to love. And I think when you have ministries like CRISTA, that's what has to happen. Your heart expands to fit, you know, the biggest need. But I think for me, you know, we're a legacy organization. We're coming up on our 75th anniversary and you know, it's easy during those 75 years to get some mission drift that can happen in any organization.

Good intent maybe kind of falls off a little bit of our direction And so one of the things i'm most excited about is that we're just returning to our first love of God. And returning to our mission to see new and growing disciples. So the other day I heard A story of 30 students in our high school came to faith in Christ.

Some, you know, for the first time commitment. And I'm thinking that's exactly why this ministry was started. And in each facet of our ministry, I could share stories of that. But I think what's exciting is that, you know, coming back to our roots, our mission of why we were founded and seeing that.

Seeing new and growing disciples is as relevant today and as needed today as it was 75 years ago, maybe even more so, right? As things continue to, you know, get darker in our world, I feel like the Lord has allowed CRISTA to be this light on a hill to lead people to Christ. So, super excited about those things.

Jim: Alright, as we close out the podcast today, Jacinta, what leadership idea or thinking would you like to share as an investment of those listening today?

Jacinta Tegman: One thing that God has really placed on my heart as we look at all the circumstances in the world around us. And you guys will love this. As a woman in leadership, I hear a lot of people tell sports analogies.

Well, whenever I want to quiet a room, I give a birth analogy. So here it comes. You know, in Romans, it talks about how the world is groaning as we're waiting, as if in labor, as in childbirth pains, you know, as we're waiting for the second return of our Lord. And one thing I know as a subject matter expert having three children myself, when labor starts, intensity and frequency increases with those labor pains, right?

So, you know, at first you can handle that first pain, but by, you know, an hour, two, five hours, ten hours into labor, boy, those are right on top of each other. I see that happening in the world, and I think as the return of our Lord comes more into focus through all the pain, all the childbirth pains that we as a global world is are now experiencing, my, my comment to the leaders that will be attending is We need to look up. Our focus has to be absolutely on Jesus and his eminent return and that we have this Moment to make a difference, a difference that will last through eternity and that would be my encouragement that those labor pains that we're feeling mean that Jesus is returning soon.

Jim: Come quickly!

Jacinta Tegman: Maranatha!

Jim: That's right.

Jacinta Tegman. Thank you so much for being on.

Jacinta Tegman: My pleasure. God bless you.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, She Works for Him, and I Retire for Him. By going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore. Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

6/20/23 - Mike Mantel: Thirsting for Living Water

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Mike Mantel, Chairman and CEO with Living Water International. This ought to be good. A guy that names his company after what Jesus did at the well with the woman. Love that. We'll be focusing on how Mike leads and strives to create a culture of belonging at Living Water International. Mike Mantel, welcome.

Mike Mantel: Thank you, Jim. Hello, Martha.

Martha: Hi. So great to have you with us today.

Jim: Before we get started, Mike, talking about your leadership role and your perspective on how God is using you to create a culture of belonging at Living Water International, tell us first how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered.

Mike Mantel: Well, Jim, it's kind of like this conversation. I start each day talking to the Lord, and then I talk to my wife, and I talk to others. So I get up early, and I have determined that I need an open ended... time with the Lord.

And so grab my Bible, I get a journal and then I get a little piece of paper, a scrap piece of paper. Cause I know all of the challenges of the day are going to come into my mind and I need a place to put those to keep my mind open to the Lord. And then I just read his word and I try to be with Him and reflect on what I'm reading.

And usually I pick up some little nugget, some little understanding that often helps me during the day. And then I go to the coffee machine. I brew a couple cups of coffee. I go visit my wife. We talk about what she's learning in her devotions, what I'm learning in my devotions. We think about our family.

We do all the logistics. We talk about the challenges of the day. And then I go out and I start having conversations with my colleagues. And it all starts with a conversation with the Lord. And then beyond that, with others.

Martha: Wow. That's such a great, it seems so simple yet such a great format for your mindset to get you started and get your heart in the right place.

So the theme for the Outcomes Conference is I belong, and I am curious, as a leader, what have been some key things for you to create a culture of belonging with your team at Living Water International?

Mike Mantel: Well, I think people own what they create. And so what we do every three to five years is we spend an entire year engaging with the whole system - all of our staff, all of our board, many of our donors and partners, and we prayerfully reflect.

We strategically design what it is that we're going to do over the next year. So we start out, we got one on one conversations, small group discussions. We've got the big plenary presentations, but we, we talk about who we are, where we want to go, how we're going to achieve it. And everybody believes their fingerprints are on our strategic direction.

And then we live it out weekly. We discuss it quarterly. We have a business review. We tie it to our performance reviews. We continue to keep it fresh and in front of us. And people see themselves in our strategy. They see themselves in our performance objectives. They see themselves as we celebrate successes or we learn from our mistakes.

And I think it's because we all believe that's our plan, that we belong to this plan, that it's our plan, our team, our strategy, our celebrations. And I think it starts with just engaging the whole system and inviting them to participate.

Jim: I think it would be helpful, and I appreciate you sharing what you just shared, for us to understand what does Living Water International actually do?

Mike Mantel: We are a Christian ministry that helps people access clean water and to experience the living water, the gospel of Jesus Christ. We're about 32 years old. We grew up out of Houston, Texas. We are currently operating in 18 countries. Latin America and the Caribbean, Africa, North, West, South India, three regions.

We've got teams, about 300 staff in these different countries, and we try to bring water to the driest areas where the most desperate people are. We work with and through churches we try to engage churches to be visible in our work and relevant. And so far in these 32 years, there are 7 million formerly thirsty people through 22,000 water projects.

So it's a great ministry and I love participating in it.

Jim: That's fantastic. 7 million formerly thirsty people.

Martha: So I don't know how you can possibly manage the culture with that huge team in all of those different countries. So I guess that's probably a challenge in and of itself, but I want to hear what, what kinds of challenges you face as you're trying to create that workplace of belonging in a global organization.

Mike Mantel: Martha, you are absolutely right that our teams work on four continents, different languages, different tribes, perspectives, denominations, preferences, ways of thinking, and it's that diversity that is our strength. It's that global footprint that is our strength. It's, it's also the flip side.

It is the challenges because there are lines there are carefully and drawn thick lines that separate us. They separate us geographically through our wealth, how we perceive things. So it's a real challenge and it's a real set of strengths to work in a diverse globally dispersed organization.

So what we do, of course, I mentioned, we try to strategize and plan and pray together. And then we try to reflect what we've agreed to through different voices, through different media, just continue to communicate what it is that we feel called to do and how it is that we want to do it. And then we press it through all of our communication channels.

We use video. We use WhatsApp. We use emails. Recently, a pandemic opened up this whole Zoom world. You know, in the past, we have a few people in a, in a meeting room and then a A few others would be looking in, but today we've got postage stamp people from around the world. We're at a balanced table and all of us can contribute with an equal position around the table.

So that's new, that's helpful. The challenge is that so much gets done relationally. You know, when we break bread, when we see each other in the halls, when we travel to each other's countries, when we sit around, kind of like the space between action planning, that's when the trust gets built, when the humor gets unleashed, when we, we have stories to tell one another.

So I think the biggest challenge is also the biggest solution. You know, we can now Zoom globally, but we can't connect globally. So we're just beginning to travel out once again across the continents and spending time with each other.

Jim: Hmm, that's fantastic. Have you ever, have you ever done the breaking bread together on Zoom?

Mike Mantel: Ha! You know, we have tried that. And it's, it's pretty cool. You know, we get the gift cards within the United States. You know, the delivery foods. And we haven't figured out how to do that globally yet, but we do time our our eating a little bit. That helps a little.

Jim: Yeah, that's cool.

All right. We got lots more coming up with Mike Mantel from living water international. Hang on.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full-time ministry, right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book iWork4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself. You're working for the Lord.

Jim: Hey, welcome back, as today we talk with Mike Mantel from Living Water International. I think, Mike, you said 18 countries, 300 teams, four continents, and seven million previously thirsty people. That's quite an accomplishment. What would you consider your top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian leader?

Mike Mantel: That's a great question. You know, the first is just the rock solid belief that God actually is in control that that God exists, that he has been writing a story throughout eternity that it's discernible, or at least the portion that we can see it's discernible. And so the business principle is to believe that God is in control. He's the master strategist. He's got a plan.

And then our job, the second core principle, is try to understand what that plan might be and then invite others into that plan, because God has a plan for each one of us. It's not a mistake that we're working in the organizations we're working in or the churches that we're working in that God has a purpose for us.

And so every day I try to reconnect to the facts that God is the master strategist, that there is a plan that how am I going to discover it today? And how am I going to invite other people into that plan as they live out what God has for them?

Martha: So, what role does listening play in all of that?

Mike Mantel: That's the center of it. You know, if we don't listen we can't discern God's plan. We can't discern what he's inviting others into. So how do you listen? Well, you do it all the time. You ask questions and questions are powerful. What do you hope for? What, what do you think God's calling us to do?

What do you feel compelled to do? What have you done? That is very effective. What have you done that is unique? How can we do this differently? Can we agree? Can we build consensus? Do you think this is a good idea or a bad idea? You know, we just kind of invite questions and conversations.

But then you gotta stop and you gotta listen. I have to listen. I have to make lots of notes and then continue to encourage people to discover and live into what they want. What they dream about. What they feel God's compelling them to do.

Jim: How often do you practice, I mean this is, I mean when I'm trying to listen and hear what the Lord is saying to me, I'll write down or repeat what I think I've heard, and then I'll ask other people to pray about the same thing, or before I share what I've heard, I ask them what they believe they're hearing just to get a confirmation that okay, we're listening to the same God. It's not both of us you know because there's always three possibilities: One of us is right and one of us is wrong. Both of us are wrong or both of us are right. I mean, so how do you determine when you have nailed down what God is saying?

Mike Mantel: Well, there's little decisions and big decisions, you know. There's project decisions. There's missional direction decisions. And so I do what you do, Jim. So the first is in the morning. It's personal, it's private. You know, God loves me. He's trying to form me into his likeness. I'm trying to be a better person.

I'm trying to, you know, it's kind of personal, but every now and then when I take those business ideas and I put them in that little that little piece of paper that I'm going to look at later, there are some clues about what God is trying to do in my life, and there's some linkage sometimes to what he's trying to accomplish through our organization.

And then I start our senior team meetings and I ask everybody, how you doing? And they, you know, two minutes each. Well, how you doing? How's your family? What are you coming to the meeting with? How you feeling? And then I ask them, you know, what are the key things that you want to celebrate? And what's on your mind?

What are the key things this week that are on your mind? And I look for alignment. Is there anything that's repeated? Is there anything that's emphasized? Is there anything that's unique that's emerging out of those conversations? I rarely say, God said or told me to do such and such, but if through the, call it the community of the saints, there's validation, there's some thematic validation or sometimes even some alignment, specific alignment, then we test it.

You know, could I say that this is a spiritual direction, or is this an academic direction, or is this a practical direction, and if it appears as if it's uniquely informed spiritually, then we can agree that this is from the Lord. Let's push it. Let's test it as we go, but let's push it as far as we can.

Martha: You know, you seem to be someone who is such a thoughtful leader, that you are really in tune with the people that are working around you and really processing that. So is there anything that you're doing personally to help you with, you know, ongoing learning yourself as a leader?

Mike Mantel: You know, there are formal and informal continuous learning. There's structured and non structured. I always need at least one thing that's formal, because there's so much coming at me and coming at others, you know, like, unless there's some kind of structured learning process.

I get carried away by the tyranny of the urgent. So this past year, what was really cool was we had this spiritual formation cohort. It was a deal we did with Fuller Theological Seminary. They designed a cohort that allowed 25 of our leaders to have two annual two day retreats. Now, we had to do it virtually because of COVID, but we spent two days like this.

And then every quarter, the whole cohort would come together. Every month, our small groups would gather and to show up prepared, you needed to do something every day or every two days. You know, discover some tool or some approach or some reflection, and then, you know, to be ready to share it. That cohort was so powerful.

Half the time, I hated it because I had too much to do and I didn't want to do my homework and the other half the time I loved it because it allowed me to get deeper with the Lord. But it also allowed me to build relationships with my you know co leaders and it was so good that we've now replicated it in Latin America to cohorts in the United States and in Africa. And our dream is that all 300 of our staff will go through a structured spiritual formation program.

And that is a structured approach. We got other stuff, you know, certified fundraising executive, you know, professional project management for development people, diversity and inclusion. All kinds of structured courses, but I think the best is the unstructured, informal interaction with our colleagues that are on the other side of something, that are on the other side of the world, that are on the other side of a perspective, that see the world differently.

And you have to create platforms for that. And that's called strategic planning, cross functional work teams, you know tactical working groups. But it's that conversation, informal, linked to the formal and structured that allows me and others to continue to learn.

Jim: That's fantastic. When we come back, lots more from Mike Mantel as he talks about his brand new book Thirsting for Living Water. Hang on for a minute.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town? Well lean in because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken podcast network is the place to be. Go to awaken podcast network.com and unlock God's purpose for your work.

With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out AwakenPodcastNetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We talk with Mike Mantel from Living Water International. If you've missed the beginning segment, well, you can go back and listen to it. This is a podcast. It's been recorded. Mike, I want to talk about your brand new book, Thirsting for Living Water. What do you hope readers are going to take away when they pick up your book and read it from

cover to cover?

Mike Mantel: Thank you, Jim. Jim, that is my favorite question. Thank you for asking it. Thirsting for Living Water: finding adventure and purpose in God's redemption story. So this is a book that not only invites people to join me, you know, the ride with me down into my dark night of the soul, and then you ride with me back in time and around the world to discover great stories of God's faithfulness.

You also, the reader also discovers his or her own story through each reflection. And that's my hope is that when the reader picks up the book. That they have an engaging story. They have a great experience, but they begin to think about God's faithfulness in my life through the scriptures, through love, through faith, through hope.

And then, you know, we begin to look at God's faithfulness through family, community, city, and the world. And then as we travel around the world, we celebrate what the church is doing over there someplace other than here, what the church is doing right here, and this amazing ancient vision of a unified body of Christ.

And my hope is that when people read these stories, and they begin to discover their own stories, they validate that God is the master strategist, that he's inviting each of us into his big story, and we can find a path to live into that adventure and to live into that purpose. And that's my biggest hope, is that people discover God's faithfulness and take that step, take that courageous step that will change their lives.

Martha: I'm curious, I mean, there's so many things there, you know? I want to just encourage people if they haven't, to just pick up a copy of your book, Thirsting for Living Water, and then you said, Finding Adventure and Purpose, I think it's... In God's Redemption Story.

So what, what was it that told you, Mike Mantel, now is the time to write this book?

Mike Mantel: Well, it started four years ago and I was troubled by all of the negative discourse in society, in the media. Everyone was knocking the church about, you know, people were leaving the church, the church is out of touch, it's not being effective.

And that hadn't been my experience. My experience was quite the opposite and I just wanted to tell stories to shift that dialogue because that hadn't been my experience. I wanted to tell hopeful stories of what the church is doing at home, across town, and around the world. And it was just to kind of shift the dialogue into something that I believed was real.

And then halfway into the process I started getting so delighted with the stories that I was discovering through my colleagues and through my friends and through my families that I just began to capture them and write them and then polish them. And during one of those early morning prayer sessions I think I heard God say, Tell stories of my faithfulness.

Tell stories of my faithfulness. So then I had to shift a little bit because it's all about God. It's all about God's big story, and it's about the stories He's writing in our lives. So then I thought, well, what if... What if the reader actually begins to discover those stories in their lives? What if they begin to articulate them?

How can we help the reader articulate stories of God's faithfulness in their lives? And what if they told those stories? Imagine if everybody began to tell stories of God's faithfulness, how that would shift the discourse into a more hopeful, larger, a more productive and redemptive story. And so that's my hope is that some people pick it up and tell their story and find ways to communicate their story to others.

Jim: Mike, as we close out today's podcast, what is a leadership idea or a certain way of thinking that you'd like to share as an investment in those listening to today's podcast? Just a little story.

Mike Mantel: So 35 years ago, when I was in business, I went on a trip to Senegal. It was a lark. It was just to have an adventure, but to follow a donation my billionaire boss made to fund a water well.

I thought it'd be so cool to get on a plane. I'd never been to Africa. You know, I loved the idea of Serengeti glasses and zip off pants. I thought it'd be a really cool thing to do. And when I got to the Sahel Desert, In Senegal, what I witnessed changed my life. What I saw was a unique cast of characters doing the impossible.

Somehow, they were able to bring water from 300 meters below the desert surface. And that water brought life to a Wolof tribe, a tribe of herders, a Muslim tribe. And when that water broke through the surface, this leader of this drilling crew Preached the gospel of Jesus, the water of life, and the lives of this Wolof tribe would be changed forever, physically and spiritually.

And it was impossible, there was no possible way that water could be brought in the middle of this desert in this tiny little village. And there was all this unlikely group of people that brought that together. And so I'm sitting under a little tree, a little acacia tree on a sand hill. And I began to just kind of, hey, God, thanks. This is really cool. It's amazing to me that you put all this together. And I felt that I was in that story. I participated in some small way. And so this is the leadership principle. If I was in that story, then God must know me. If he knows me and he invites me into that story, he must love me.

And that was so powerful to me to not be alone, to be loved by the almighty God. And then it struck me that if I could work for the master strategist, I didn't need to sort out all of my life. I just needed to join him and do what he was doing and then I could bring along my friends and it would transform their lives.

So the leadership principle is to just believe. And if you don't believe, find evidence that God is in fact alive and well, working a big story and inviting us to participate. And my hope is that the reader of my book will consider that. Consider that God is alive and well. He loves us. He's inviting us into his work. And as leaders, we can just live into that big plan and invite others to participate and God will change the world.

Jim: Mike Mantel with Living Water International. Thanks.

Mike Mantel: Thanks so much, Jim and Martha. You bet.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world.

For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/ bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

6/13/23 - Nicole Martin: God-Sized Goals

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Jim: We've got an incredible conversation coming up today with Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin, the Senior VP of Ministry Impact with the American Bible Society.

Have you bought your . Bible website yet? You should. Go to get. bible. We'll be focusing on how Nicole leads and strives to create a culture of belonging within her division in the, within the American Bible Society. Nicole Martin, welcome to the Outcomes Conference podcast.

Nicole Martin: Thank you so much. It's so great to be with you guys.

Martha: Well, we are great to, grateful to have you here with us. And you know, I want to hear about your leadership role and your perspective on belonging and how God is using you in the culture there at American Bible Society. But before we do that, I want to hear how you keep your faith strong and Christ centered as a leader.

Nicole Martin: Yeah, thank you so much for asking. You know, I think it's sad that we don't ask this question enough as leaders. How do I keep my faith strong? But the answers are pretty, you know, simple when it when it comes to spiritual disciplines. So I started this journey of engaging in the Bible for myself about 20 years ago, and it was a dare. My pastor at the time said to me and several other young adults that he reads through the Bible every year.

And he said that that's what keeps him strong and grounded. And so as kind of a test or, you know kind of a competition, we decided we would do that as well. And here I am 20 years later, still reading through the Bible every year. And that keeps me grounded because when you read through the Bible, like, all at once through the year, you get the big story of what God is doing and what God has been doing.

And it keeps me grounded because it's more than just one scripture to keep me going for the day. It's the full story of God's work from creation to revelation to Christ coming again. That really keeps me grounded. And then I think the other thing that keeps me grounded in my faith, honestly, is raising kids.

 You know, there's, there's nothing like having to work with your children that helps you understand principles like grace, unconditional love, forgiveness, discipline -all of these, these biblical characteristics come alive when it comes to raising children who prayerfully are disciples of Christ, and I stay grounded when I know, you know, I've got to still love my babies and I've got to raise them and live in a way that's authentic for them and authentic to God.

Jim: It's just so true. You have to have children in order to really learn selflessness. They pull it out of you.

Nicole Martin: Yes, they do.

Jim: It's the diapers and the anyway at the middle of the night.

Martha: It's every stage.

Nicole Martin: It's every stage!

Jim: The theme of the outcomes conference this year is I belong. As a leader, what have been the keys to creating a culture within your division, ministry impact, at American Bible Society?

Nicole Martin: Oh my goodness, so many keys. Okay, so I have the honor of serving and stewarding five key areas of our Bible ministry. That is Bible translation, Bible distribution, trauma healing, the armed services ministry, and the digital Bible lab. That's all five of those.

I mean, and honestly, best work that I do. And I learned this from Tammy. Best work that I do is supporting these leaders. I get to wake up in the morning and think about how do I help these eagles fly? But, but one of the things that I had to learn very quickly is creating a sense of belonging on my ministry teams means finding the balance between honoring the distinctiveness of each of these areas of ministry, while also celebrating our unity, our common framework, our ways of being together.

So that, for me, creates a sense of belonging. I want our translation team to know their work is so unique and so different and so important, and at the same time, it is deeply connected to what we do in trauma healing and in the armed services and in digital Bible. So that's both the opportunity and the challenge on the missional part.

On the individual level, I think for me being a woman and a woman of color, I am more aware of how important it is to celebrate difference and honor unity. So I do want people to be seen and understood and valued for what they bring culturally, generationally you know, by way of their gender, while also knowing that they belong to something larger than themselves.

They're part of a really important tapestry of diversity that includes all levels of diversity, whether that's from, you know, those who take the commute, take the train in to those who walk to work, there's so much richness that's available, and I do my best to try and create that space with that balance.

Jim: And God did all that diversity on purpose. And even the way we worship. I mean, it's not so much how we look or how we think, it's also in how we experience God. That is also diverse and how we worship him on Sunday morning again diversity and and how we can learn from each other It's so spectacular.

Martha: Well, you know and and really we don't need to go off on this tangent, but it's really the whole idea behind different Bible translations as well. Yeah, because there's diversity and how I read versus how somebody else reads. You know, when you pick up a fiction writer, some click with you. You can just read them really easily because they speak like you think, or process, or whatever, and I think it's so much like that with the scripture, too, and that's another sense of diversity within the kingdom.

So what kinds of challenges do you run into when you're trying to create a culture of belonging at American Bible Society?

Yeah, well, I think, you know, the opportunity and the joy is also the challenge. Someone said to me when I first came into church ministry, they said people like people like themselves.

And prior to coming to American Bible Society, I did work on a church staff and it's true. The, the people in the prayer ministry, they just want to be around people who are prayer warriors and, you know, the women's ministry, they literally love being around women. So, It's hard sometimes to create, to build up the anticipation of what's in it for me.

Like, in order to create a sense of belonging and unity, I have to build the case for why it matters. I have to tell our translation team, it matters. When you get to see what the Digital Bible team is doing, you become better. I have to say, you know, to our Armed Services team, when you get to see what Trauma Healing is doing, you become better and the same is true on our levels of diversity.

If I only stay with people like myself, I miss out and I like what you said, Jim. It's not just missing out on my own personal development. I miss out on an aspect of who God is. If I stay with just my group and try to understand who God is, I cannot do that without you. And perhaps this is why Paul says in Ephesians, you know, it's like.

Together with all the saints that you may understand the depth and the width and the breadth of the love of God. I literally cannot do that by myself. So, the challenge is, how do we create such a compelling picture, a vision of what togetherness looks like that people who don't like people who are not like themselves are still willing to say, I'll give it a try.

Jim: That's a tweetable tweet! You're listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast as we talk with Dr. Nicole Martin, Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin. We'll be right back.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field.

Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book, iWork4Him, by going to iworkforhim. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself, you're working for the Lord.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We've talked with Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society.

Nicole, your responsibilities are huge as you are over so many different divisions within the American Bible Society. What are the top two core principles that guide you daily as a Christian or Christ following leader?

Nicole Martin: Great question. So I think one principle is to really listen to the experts. So obviously when i'm leading all of these areas, i'm not an expert in all of these areas. It does take a translator to understand Bible translation. It takes You know, a psychologist and at times Bible study leaders to help understand trauma healing and some of our digital Bible work.

So I try to really listen to and trust people who are experts. And it doesn't always mean that I go with everything that that my leaders are sharing. But I do trust them. And I think that's part of good leadership. Good leadership means you hire people to play the jobs and then you trust them to do their jobs.

And you trust that when they're giving advice or when they're, you know, providing guidance on where we should go, that that's actually where we should go. So I try to really, really listen to them well. And I try to really trust them even when that's more difficult. And I think the other thing I really try to do as a leader is not just listen to the experts and I don't want to sound cliche in saying this, but I mean it really try to listen for God.

I really, really try to listen for God because I don't believe that I can lead without God leading. So part of my, you know, reading through the Bible, my time with God, is simply asking God. Let me hear you. Open my ears so I can hear you. And then I can hear God speaking through my team, speaking through other perspectives, speaking through things that I read. So I think it's really wrapped up in listening to the leaders and to God.

Jim: What I wanna know, I just got a follow up. Sorry Martha. I saw her lips at the same time. The listening, listening to God. How, I mean, 'cause you're busy in your mind. I could tell because I think you and I have a lot in common.

You're busy in your mind. So how do you quiet your mind in order to hear the Lord? Because that filtering process, you know, I've been a believer for over 40 years, but I find myself having a hard time being quiet in order to hear what God's saying.

Nicole Martin: Yeah, so when you figure that out, then you can call and tell me and then, then we'll be like on the same page. I mean, you know, there's like all this stuff about mindfulness and I get that. It's like, yes, I do need to pray. But again, back to the listening. I also trust that God knows how he made me. God knows the kinds of things that I would face. So this morning, for example, I took the train in to work and I'm praying not just "God, quiet my mind so that I can hear you." "God, speak in a way that I'll hear you." And God knows me well enough that I need repetition.

I will know this is God when it's not just that one time when it was a fleeting thought five minutes ago, but when it's a reoccurrence, when there's a deep seated understanding, when there's, you know, a sense of repetition, I heard it there and then some random person said it and then I'm sitting in a meeting, oh my gosh, that just might be God.

So I think, you know, I don't like to sit in the place of dictating how people hear the voice of God. Because I think we're made in a way that each of us hear God uniquely, which goes back to the conversation of belonging.

Martha: Amen. It really does. Thanks for kind of, you know, talking into that because one of the things I remember as a young mom, hearing my pastor's wife talk about how she prayed. And it was very, she's like, I don't even usually talk about this because it's not the way, like, the textbooks, you know, say to do, you know, or whatever.

And she's like, this is how God wired me. And this is my conversation with God. I'm giving you a little peek into it. And it was so freeing because it wasn't, you know, it was like God made her different and it was okay to have conversation with God the way that it meant to us. So I appreciate you kind of talking about that.

So what about continuous learning for you? How do you fit that into your role as a leader to help you to continue to grow?

Jim: Yeah, and why do you even need it? You already got a doctorate. What else do you need?

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, listen. The truth about, having a doctorate is just the recognition that you now know all that you do not know. I mean, I actually think I am better positioned to be an active learner because I have a degree, which proves that I recognize I don't know much at all. So I enter this space of leadership with a recognition that there's so much to learn now that works to my advantage because it does keep me always learning.

So, you know, podcasts are one way that I learned, listening to my leaders and to the experts. That's another way that I learned. Reading. I love reading. One of the ways, you know, going back to quieting my mind. I do read a lot because hearing perspectives and being able to imagine what the text is saying that helps me to quiet my mind.

But also I have to be careful so that it doesn't work to my disadvantage because I am prone to walk in a room and say, I don't know what I'm doing. Like I mean, the imposter syndrome comes up and the fear of failure comes up and, you know, the deficit, the awareness of my own deficits can, can be an unnecessary thing at times.

So I'm trying to balance this with recognizing I really know there's so much that I don't know, but also leaning on the fact that God has given me everything I need to lead in this moment and learning how to rest in that as well. It's a balance that I'm trying to achieve. I'm not very good at it.

Jim: Balance. There's that elusive word.

Martha: So I have a quick little question. Just a fun fact. How long have you been at American Bible Society?

Nicole Martin: I've been here for about five years.

Martha: Five years. So we heard you say at the beginning of the show that 20 years ago you started reading through the Bible. How awesome is it that God prepared you with that kind of learning heart before you ever probably thought about working for American Bible Society? What does that make you think of when you're like, God already showed me the value of the Bible before I started working for American Bible society?

Nicole Martin: You know that I think about that. Someone said to me when I first started working at American Bible Society, I had friends from college that were like, dude, that's your dream job. That organization is made for you because they knew me from teaching Bible studies in college to, you know, this reading through the Bible on a regular basis.

People knew me as someone who loved God's word. My challenge is I want every believer to be known by that. I want every believer to say, well, of course, American Bible Society is a place that you would be drawn to because you're drawn to the Bible. So my problem is, I don't see this as an anomaly or as a unique thing for me.

I see this as the part of Christian life for all believers. May we all have such a passion for God's word that we're drawn to anything that speaks of God's word. So, you know, I'm definitely a Bible nerd, but I want everyone to be a Bible nerd!

Jim: And that's good! And on that note, we're going to take a break here as we talk with Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society. We'll be right back.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town? Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken podcast network is the place to be. Go to awaken podcast network.com and unlock God's purpose for your work.

With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out awakenpodcastnetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back. We're talking with Nicole Martin from American Bible Society. Here's my question. The American Bible Society is not a new organization and it's had to reinvent itself multiple times over. Well over a hundred years if I remember correctly. What is the next cutting edge project American Bible Society will undertake? Because the last time we interviewed somebody from American Bible Society it was .Bible. So what's next?

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, so many things. So it's 206 years in May of this year. And you're right. There's constantly reinventing. But you know, part of that is just data driven. We're constantly aware of where Bible engagement is in America and where the Bible need is worldwide and constantly trying to adjust and bend so that our mission stays the same, even if we find different ways to do it.

So there are a couple of things that I'm really excited about that are happening right now. One is a project we're working on that helps you discover your spiritual DNA. So, you know, like you have DNA test things, you can find out where you're from. Your spiritual DNA will help you to find out where you are in your pathway of scripture engagement and help you to take whatever the next best step is to growing in Bible engagement. So it's going to be kind of a partnered effort with a lot of Bible engagement partners in the U. S., but I'm super excited about that and that's unfolding. And then another thing I'm excited about we have a program that we've been stewarding for about 10 years called the Trauma Healing. And it's really evolved into an institute.

We have 20, 000 plus facilitators, healing group facilitators all around the world. And right now, as we speak, we are revamping this program to become more digital, more responsive. And just more accessible so that anyone and everyone who's experiencing pain can encounter the healing power of God through the Bible.

So, there's so much to be said, I could talk about both of those all day, but those are two things on the horizon that I'm excited about.

Jim: Very cool.

Martha: That is exciting. So exciting. So, when you consider American Bible Society, what are you most enthusiastic about in terms of mission and impact?

Nicole Martin: Well, right now we're going through a process of looking back at our strategic plan and thinking about what is it really going to take to reach two crazy audacious prayer goals?

One of them is to reach 7. 8 billion people worldwide to ensure that 7. 8 billion people have access to God's word. That is an international prayer goal. And then we've got this goal to reach a hundred million Americans to see them engaged in God's word. And that's our domestic goal. I am really excited about these goals because only God can do them.

Only God can do that work. And you know, we don't have control over that. But what we steward right now in our strategic planning process has the ability to refine what it's going to take to get there. And this has not been easy work. It's been hard.

We've had to name some difficult truths like, Do we have the best programs? Do we have the best strategies? Are we tracking the right things? And this process of working with leaders to refine our strategy so we can reach those prayer goals has been so life giving. And it's been so wonderful to see people come together to see what it takes.

Jim: Well, talking about the coming together thing, because that's what my question was going to be. Collaboration. There are other Bible focused organizations in our country and around the globe. How are you guys involved in collaborating with them? Because some of them have different niches in the American Bible Society. How do you collaborate? Talk to me about that.

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh. Collaboration is like, it should be American Bible Collaboration Society. I mean, it really is what we do. So on the international scope, we have our strongest partnership is with United Bible Societies. They've been around for 75 years, 155 Bible societies all around the world. To my knowledge, someone said it's the second largest peacekeeping network, peacekeeping network aside from the UN. So we do much of our work through Bible societies all around the world. Domestically, we're convening all kinds of partners. We support YouVersion through our digital Bible library.

We're convening our Bible translation partners, Wycliffe and Biblica and Seed Company. We're bringing together networks, the Sending Project in Kansas City, and Movement Day and Movement. org. I could go on and on, but the best work that we do is when we can collaborate with like minded people who just want to see people engaging in God's Word.

Jim: That was a great answer.

Nicole Martin: Oh my gosh, it's very exciting.

Martha: You know, it's too bad that you're not more excited about what's going on in American Bible Society.

Nicole Martin: People tell me that all the time. They're like, are you excited at all?

Martha: It is so great to see that God has you right where he has you on purpose for a purpose.

So what can you, Reverend Dr. Nicole Martin, share as a leadership idea or a way of thinking that you could use to invest in the listeners of this podcast?

Nicole Martin: Yeah. Well, I think the one thing that I am learning and that I would want to share is I think we as Christian leaders have an opportunity, especially in this time to embrace suffering, embrace the cross as a means of getting to a place of victory.

And what I mean is so much of traditional leadership has been like, go up and up and up. First you start here, and then you move up, and then you move up. You're, first you're a youth minister, and then maybe one day you'll be a senior pastor, and then maybe you'll have a megachurch. There's this constant striving toward up and up and up, but the way of the cross is deep, deep, deep.

It means you have to embrace the things that are not so lovely. Embrace the realities of your life and your journey that are not so pleasant. It requires a leaning into the cross that I think can be one of the greatest gift of leaders that we have today. We don't get to resurrection without getting through the cross.

And that shows up for me in the way that I lead. Some would call this redemptive leadership. It's a way of being that says I'm not afraid of the failures. I'm not afraid of messing up. I'm not afraid of my leaders getting everything wrong. There are times when we will get it wrong, but rather than push that under the carpet and strive for what is right, we can lean into that.

We can embrace that. We can learn from that in a way that helps all of us become better. And ultimately, I think what this means is clinging to the cross, clinging to what it means to take up our crosses, to follow Christ in the good times and in the bad times, but always recognize that we follow Christ through the cross to get to the point of victory.

Jim: A phenomenal summary. Fantastic. Nicole Martin from the American Bible Society. Thank you so much.

Nicole Martin: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books by going to iWork4Him. com/ bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him. com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

6/6/23 - Mark Vincent: Leveling Up Your Leadership

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Mark Vincent with Maestro Level Leaders who'll be focusing on how they lead and strive to create a culture of belonging at Maestro Level Leaders.

Dr. Mark Vincent, welcome.

Mark Vincent: Thank you. I'm glad to be with you.

Jim: Before we start talking about your leadership role and your perspective How God is using you to create a culture of belonging at Maestro Level Leaders and with the leaders that you influence Talk to us about how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered.

Mark Vincent: That's just a real softball question You threw me so thank you for that. You know, I guess because I've lived a while and was introduced to Christ as a, basically as a kindergartner I think over time, habits, if you're really developing yourself spiritually, start to land. For me the rhythm of personal time in prayer and in reading and reading devotional literature, sometimes reading things that really expand my spirit.

And then also a weekly rhythm of worship have begun to matter more than ever before. So I Really have been using for a number of years now the book of common prayer. It's a way to just stay centered in scripture reading in a rhythmic way and to make it prayerful and reflective and For the weekly worship as I've moved to a couple different locations and you end up saying, you know, where will we make our church home?

I've ended up in a liturgical tradition where a gospel reading each week Is the centerpiece of the worship service, where you are again, hearing the words and actions of Jesus, the Christ and have opportunity to kneel and confess my sins and to restate my faith and gather around the Lord's table as a centerpiece of worship.

Each time has become a part of the rhythm. And I think of it as like inhaling and exhaling. of resets to go into the week. And it's also a spot to come back to and celebrate what I've experienced as I've tried to follow Christ during the week. So that's really where it lands for me.

Jim: You know what's beautiful is that, you know, as many believers as there are on the planet, we all worship God differently.

And we all enjoy different parts of that worship and the different styles of that worship, but that doesn't make it any of it wrong. It just makes it different. But God created us different on purpose. So I love that the liturgy really speaks to you and impacts your soul. Love that.

Martha: So good. So Mark , I want to talk about the theme for the outcomes conference podcast and for the conference for 2022 It is, I belong.

So as a leader, how are you, what are some key ways that you create a culture of belonging for your team, whether that's the people that work with you or that you work with at Maestro Level Leaders?

Mark Vincent: So Maestro Level Leaders is a service offering. It's a program that people can join and these are peer based cohorts and many people participate in some kind of forum group or monthly group of people.

We're in the same kind of work or field that they're in. So they join and they, they kind of have a confidential conversation and they help each other out. And Maestro Level Leaders is one expression of that, primarily working with people who are longer in their career and are facing succession planning.

And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit more about that as we go in this conversation. But what we've learned about peer based advising, and I've been a part of it for many years, is that people who stay in them stay because they have a community, they belong. And there's this interesting paradox as people grow as leaders.

They get ever more isolated and also a little bit more insulated and they need community more than ever. So it's really hard to have that level of community in your workplace in spite of what you may say. You know what a person may say about their board, Oh, I get along well with my board or their colleagues.

Oh, I get along with my colleagues. But every one of those conversations has a bit of an exchange element in it, what you will do for me, what we need from you. It's really hard for it to be centered in belonging to something where you are there because of who you are, you're embraced for who you are, not for what you can do.

So the whole piece of peer based advising and what we want to have in Maestro level leaders in those cohorts is a spot where someone says, these are people who I can have as companions. I will get companions. I can be a companion. And this is what keeps people in these programs for a long time.

They often join because they think I'll benefit. I'll get smarter. I'll have wise counsel. They stay because they have a community.

Jim: It's church.

Mark Vincent: in many ways it really is or what a church should be. You know, the idea of of one another- ing is so important. And if you don't feel like you've got another that you can one another, literally, it's tough. You end up just being an exchange types of relationships.

Jim: But Mark, with all the great stuff, sometimes there's challenges in creating cultures of belonging. What do you see as some of the challenges you face as creating a culture of belonging in those cohorts that you guys create? Those roundtables?

Mark Vincent: Well, because of that isolation and insulation, people start to think that they are different and unique. And then that's a half truth. If they're an accomplished leader, they are different. They have differentiated. They differentiated their business. That's why their business is succeeding or their organization is growing.

And so there's a uniqueness and they've really integrated themselves. They're really applying their gifts. So all of that is true, but only in part. What is true also is that people who are really working to grow as leaders have some common experiences, and they have some common needs because they're human. Like they still only have 24 hours in a day and 365 days in a year, and they still need some sleep, and they should have a good body budget, they should have good breathing, they should take care of their health. All those things matter and they also face similar organizational development problems.

 And when a person is saying I'm unique or I really want to be special or this is about me and they're not coming to it as a lifelong learner, those become the obstacles you have to work to overcome. Those are usually the key points of resistance and blocks to being able to get past the things that are emerging because somebody has been successful.

Martha: Such a great perspective. I've never really heard it that way and yet it's so good because, you know, the last thing somebody wants to hear is, well, yeah, you're not really that special compared to everybody else. But we all have those similar limits , and those similar things that we deal with, and that is such a great perspective. Thanks for sharing that.

Jim: You're listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast. We'll be back in a moment with more from Mark Vincent from Maestro Level leaders.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are.

The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book, iWork4Him, by going to iworkforhim. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself, you're working for the Lord.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast as we talk today with Mark Vincent. I promised him that if you mess up on the podcast, you just keep going. I seem to be proving that to Mark today. Check out Mark online on his website at Maestro Level Leaders. Hang on. So I was trying to find, all of a sudden I lost your website.

There it is, Maestro Level Leaders.com. Maestro Level Leaders.com. Mark Vincent. A lot of us, when we lead, we've got core principles that guide us. What are the top two core principles that guide you as a leader? And as you influence leaders?

Mark Vincent: Well, there are two that come readily to mind among many, you might call on the kind of the ones that are always at the front.

So one of them is much more philosophical more directional, let's say, and that is that for me, I want to love leaders who love leaders. So that sounds like a mission statement, and yes it is, but I would also say it's a principle that there is a people centeredness to leading, not just a thing centeredness or a goal centeredness.

It's about getting people done through the things we're doing much more than getting things done through people. And that's a little bit trite. That could go on a nice leadership poster, but that's something I think about a lot. And also on the heels of that is something that's a lot more operational, which is I want to be very firm on process and very gentle with people.

And by firm, I don't mean legalistic and hard. I mean, not letting go of it, a bull, a bulldog, and it's a determinedness that this is about moving things forward, that together we've agreed that need to be done. And sometimes, yes, you have to make a tough leadership call and decide this is where we're going even if other people aren't ready.

But that doesn't mean you mistreat people, doesn't mean you yell at them. It doesn't mean that you harm them in some way or that you treat them as a commodity that you use up and throw away in order to get things done. So when we're doing this work together, we want to face into the process, which actually gets us, you know, picture it happening.

You turn and become side by side as you face toward this thing that you're going to be working at and take your next step. So, those are two principles I really think of quickly, easily, and often they probably have a bit of a neural pathway in me because this is the stuff I've lived for quite a while now.

Martha: That's so great. So, in that maybe related, maybe not, but what role does listening play in your living out your role as a leader at Maestro level leaders?

Mark Vincent: It's really funny. I just came into this podcast after a lunch with someone where we were talking about communication and how communication is so important.

And we ended up thinking and discussing how probably about 80% of good communication is the listening side, not just stating it again and then again and finding a hundred ways to try and force people to understand something. And so when you're helping other people develop, they need to be able to identify what they need to do.

And then even more so what they're willing to do. And that's true at an organizational level. Well, that comes from asking questions and showing up curious. That's the stuff that we talk about all the time. But listening is at the heart of it and listening, especially when you're leading. And you're not just listening to say, okay. I'm turning off other things that I might be thinking about. And I'm just trying to focus on you, whatever it is you want to tell me.

And it's much more a matter of if we're working on something together, we're listening for where you are and what comes next and what we can do next together. So you're listening at a variety of levels. You're not just listening for what we would say is the comprehension part of it, and you're not just listening for the context or the concepts, the definitions of what somebody means.

You're actually listening for the architectural elements for what can then be built. And then there's one more level, that's listening adaptively, where like we're going to learn as we go. Who has all the answers right now? I don't have the answers or we wouldn't be having this conversation. You don't have the answers or we wouldn't be solving together.

So out of what we're trying, some things won't work and some things will. So we're listening for what can be adapted, what's emerging as well. And so that's a very deep level of listening, which means I can't be too quick to tell you what I'm thinking about. And I can't be thinking about what I'm going to respond to your words if I'm actually trying to get it all.

So I have to trust the fact that a good question or a good thought is going to come later. But I want to make sure I understand. So I think of the prayer of St. Francis all the time, you know, that I would seek first to understand. And this is one way that that really gets practiced.

Martha: You know, it's so funny that you say that because it's something that Jim and I have to undo all the time because in our podcasting, we are always thinking about what's next.

What do we need to cover? And it's very easy to sometimes lose the context and go deeper in the conversation. So in our personal life, we have to step back, you know, and we're like, no, it's not about what question is next. It's not about where are we going to go. It's like, let's listen to all that's happening now and really embrace it.

And so you know, we have to fight those tendencies a lot. So I love the way you explained it. Thank you.

Jim: So Mark, tell us about Maestro Level Leaders. Tell us about its mission and its work.

Mark Vincent: Maestro Level Leaders is an expression of peer based advising, as we were talking about, that is primarily built for people who, when they're looking into the future, trying to build a future value of the organization - what do we have to adjust? What's the next mix of services or products or whatever it is that defines us being able to be an enduring organization that can continue fulfilling its mission next year also? So they're looking into that. It's like, oh my goodness whatever we arrive at somebody else is going to be leading this. It's not going to be me.

My primary role now is to get us ready for that kind of succession and that kind of leadership transfer. And that is a whole different order of business. It's a very different job description. If you're at the helm of an organization. And you start realizing that what you're preparing and building is going to be under somebody else's care, almost like, you know, a Moses saying, Joshua, here you go, you've got the promised land, you've got the people.

I'm not going to be there. Everything I've lived brings us up to this moment, but I'm not crossing that river. It's like that. And the job changes at that moment because now it's not so much about building. It's about setting down in such a way that others can build. There, that is fraught with all kinds of peril and difficulty and jockeying for position and getting the timing right.

And so we've created a peer based advising experience for people at that moment that lasts four years where they're journeying through that kind of transition planning together, timing it, thinking about it, working on the current case study of the business. Having some coaching beside that and working with people who have practiced this for a while and helped a variety of organizations to do that.

And that's really what that mission is. I should add that we're, we formed this partnership with Christian Leadership Alliance where we are doing an expression. We're building it now, an expression of Maestro Level Leaders for the Christian Leadership Alliance. members. So that it is a CLA expression of this.

We're really, really excited about that.

Jim: We're talking today with Mark Vincent right here on the Outcomes Conference Podcast. We'll be right back.

Break: You know the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town? Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person.

The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be. Go to awakenpodcastnetwork. com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends. You will find a gathering place of podcasts that provide simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out AwakenPodcastNetwork. com, and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast as we talk with Mark Vincent from Maestro Level Leaders. And Mark, I want to ask you about the three turns of a leader, but before we do... You've been working on a project, a book that's gonna come out sometime this year called Listening, Helping, and Learning: the core competencies of process and consulting kind of a heady title, honestly. But i'm sure it's more exciting than that. What's this book about that you got coming out?

Mark Vincent: Well, i'll take that back to the marketers that we have a heady title. We need to change it before it sees the light of day. Thank you for the the marketing information. I say with the big smile on my face. Just so anybody who's listening can hear that I have.

The ideas of listening, helping and learning are categorical descriptions of competencies that mark what process consulting is. Process consulting is a form of listening, which we've been talking about.

It's a form of coming alongside a client rather than saying this is what you should do. And you're learning together because you're working at issues that nobody's seen before because it's this problem in this context with this organization. So the way that that's done: there's an organization called the Society for Process Consulting. They've published what the core competencies are. I wrote the curriculum for them. The people who've gone through that training said, this needs to be in a book. We need this as an ongoing reference. We need it, not just as consultants, but the clients that we have need to be looking at this, because this applies to project managers and for boards, as we listen deeply, as we then turn that toward the steps we take, and as we learn from it. So we put together about 25 case studies from around the world, everything from how do you run a construction company in the middle of a civil war in Africa to how do you manage the fourth generation transfer of a family that manages luxury castle properties to somebody who's a wedding planner and has a shop that's selling wedding dresses.

And now you're in COVID. So, you know, it is those kinds of things where how do you figure this out? How do you get the people around it to make it happen? And the book's out in June. We'll be using it, yes, for the training, but it's ongoing discussion for people who have to lead these kinds of processes.

Martha: Excellent. So I am sure there are a lot of listeners that that can probably apply to and hopefully they will check out your book.

So one of the things that we want to kind of focus on here for just a minute is the three turns of a leader. And that is a, that is something that you use in Maestro Level Leaders.

And how does a leader sense that he or she's in that third turn? So explain what the three turns are. And then let's talk about the third turn.

Mark Vincent: You know, it's really funny when we started talking about Maestro Level Leaders. We're describing what is it and where does that show up and how do you know that you're ready?

And so I began using this description out of human development. I didn't invent this stuff, right? But out of human development, talking about these are three major turns someone has in their leadership journey. And what was interesting is how that language got picked up everywhere. I'm having people come to me that don't know that three turns of a leader kind of started with this work and they're talking about how during their second turn or third turn and it just feels like wow, somehow we tripped over something that just is, you know, it's like all tissue facial tissue we call Kleenex, you know, even though that's the brand. It's like that.

So very quickly, the three turns are turn one: I'm learning to lead myself usually the first, you know, decade or so of a career. I figured out my emotional wake. I figured out what it means to lead a project, to see what done is on a project, find out if people actually want to follow me. You know, there's so many things that can happen there and I'm getting more and more competent in my lane.

Turn two. Turn two is often when a person is invited to run a company or something that might have the PNL, the balance sheet of this organization. They succeeded so well in turn one. Can you take on the whole thing? We'd like you to run the organization. The problem here is now I have to learn to lead the organization and people.

It's not just leading myself. So if I go into that turn thinking, look at me, watch what I can do. I'm the man. I'm the woman. Give me the promotion. I'm outperforming all my peers. We're going to fail in turn two. Because now we're leading the organization. We're learning people. So rather than this vertical rise, you don't have to spread out horizontally, and rather than functioning out of our competence, we actually have to admit that I don't know stuff.

And that's why I have someone who heads up, you know, human resources and somebody heads up marketing, somebody heads up fundraising, or whatever those other lanes are. And I have to draw out their gifts as one who doesn't know half of what they do.

The third turn is if we have really led this organization well and it's operating with a high degree of excellence and we've got leaders over those areas and over the operations as a maestro level or a third turn leader, I'm able to give more attention to the future and to the unknowns and this is stuff that's developing.

More to the stakeholders, more with the board, more around what is emerging and how are we going to be in place to run this and the big capital that might be needed to still have an enterprise as I hand it off to the people who are coming behind me that I've been privileged to develop and to do it in a way that they're slingshotted forward into the future, rather than the organization going into languish mode for a number of years and just like Startups, most of them don't succeed.

Most of them don't get to five years. And just like moving some kind of a merger or an acquisition together and achieving that value, which most don't. Going through the succession planning, most organizations don't do it. Well, the adventure of doing it well comes from being very planful, very specific, very transparent, very forthright. And those are the three turns.

Jim: Wow. Love that. Thanks for that description. It was really fun. That was fun and educational. I loved it.

All right, Mark. We're going to close out the podcast with this question: This is a podcast for leaders pouring their hearts into the hearts of other leaders. What leadership idea or thought would you love to share as an investment in those listening to today's outcomes conference podcast?

Mark Vincent: I'm probably just repeating something that has become very important to me that we've been talking about. You cannot do this by yourself, and you can't do it out of your competence. We need other people. We need to approach this from not knowing and from learning in order to be able to say, help is a good thing.

Who can help us? Not just help me. Who can help us? And helping people get to that earlier in their career so they can keep growing. And so that they can actually as they develop as a human being begin to see wisdom grow up and out, rather than just knowledge and skill, so that they can then in turn invest into others who are in their first or second turns, helping them come to a place of wisdom that has come to mean a great deal to me. And I consider myself very fortunate that I had an abundance of mentors in my life that modeled that, and I am deeply aware of how many people have never had that experience, not know what it's like, have no picture of it.

So helping to create that for others and to call it out of people who've never had that experience. It's like a holy calling, and I am privileged to be a part of that.

Jim: I believe you do have a holy calling right there. Maestro Leaders. I love that you're doing maestrolevelleaders. com. Love what you're doing, and it is a holy calling, just pouring into leaders and helping them to pour into others.

Any final questions, Martha?

Martha: No, I think you've given us a lot to think about and I believe that there will be a lot of people checking out your book. We'll put it in the show links.

Jim: All right. Thank you, Mark Vincent from Maestro Level Leadership today.

Mark Vincent: Thank you.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4HIm, and iRetire4Him by going to iworkforhim. com. / bookstore.

Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work. To join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number 4 him. com.

5/30/23 - Jim & Martha Brangenberg: Kingdom Collaboration

intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd T. Reilly, producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliance's Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Scott Brown: I'm Scott Brown, and today we actually get to flip the script. Tammy Heim, President and CEO of Christian Leadership Alliance, and I get to interview Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Jim and Martha are the co founders of iWork4Him Network. In 2013, God called them to begin and co host the iWork4Him broadcast, where they have had the privilege of challenging thousands across the globe with the simple message that your workplace is your mission field. They've co authored a series of collaborative books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him.

They've interviewed thousands of leaders of the, for the, iWork4Him and iRetire4Him shows and Martha also helped begin the sheWorks4Him podcast. They're not only active members of Christian Leadership Alliance and host of this podcast. They're also the main stage experience guides at our annual outcomes conference.

Our theme this year is I belong, and it's our privilege to dive into that topic of belonging with Jim and Martha here today. So Jim and Martha, welcome to your own podcast.

Jim: Thanks, Scott.

Martha: Thank you.

Scott Brown: Yeah, it's nice to have you. But before we get started talking about your leadership role and the perspective on how God has used you to create a culture of belonging there at iWork4Him Ministries, Could you start us out by just sharing a little bit about how you keep your own faith strong and your leadership Christ centered?

Martha: Sure. So I think one of the things that we really have an amazing vantage point when we get to interview such amazing leaders that God is using in their daily lives and hearing how, how God inspires them. And that inspires me. And so for me, it's always listening to what God is doing in other people's lives and trying to apply that and, and see how I can implement something that I've learned from them in my own.

Personally, spending time in the morning and quiet God has me up early many days and I appreciate that in the, you know, in the real sense of that quietness that I get with him and writing my thoughts and listening to him through scripture and just. Learning from all the amazing people that we get to come in contact with.

Jim: Yeah, and for me, Scott, I actually had to schedule the first three hours of my day completely full so that I make sure that no matter when I sleep too, cause sometimes Martha and I work til midnight, not unlike some other famous, you know executive director of Christian Leadership Alliance. And then so when I wake up, I want to make sure I have my time for journaling.

I love to journal and I love to prayer journal where I'm just asking, Lord, what do you have for me today? And I've got an intercession list that I go through, and I make sure I'm always reading my Bible, and I'm usually reading some Old Testament, New Testament, because I try to read through the Bible every year.

But my goal is to also, at the same time, to keep my self Christ centered, is to make sure I'm pouring my life into other men. So I've got four or five men that I'm pouring my life into, because if I'm holding them accountable, it also holds me accountable. And then for Martha and I, we never start a day without praying together and we never end the day without praying together.

And if we happen to have an argument that I started during the day, We stop, I say, I'm sorry, I love you, please forgive me, and then we pray. And then we start over again. So, those things help us stay Christ centered and our faith strong. Because as many people listening to this show know that Martha and I spend 24/ 7, 365 with each other.

And about 35, 000 miles a year of that in a metal tube with four wheels that we call a minivan. So we really get a lot of alone time. So it's important to keep our faith strong and Christ centered.

Scott Brown: Yeah, that's great insight, though. You know, a lot of our listeners would also be those who get the opportunity to work together with a spouse and whether it's as a volunteer or full time, so it's helpful to have that insight on on how you do that together.

I did want to ask about how you all try to create a culture of belonging at iWork4Him ministries and both, you know, among your team, but with others that you engage with.

Jim: So, for our team, so we've got a team with somebody in Mexico City, somebody in Minneapolis, and somebody in Clearwater, Florida, and we're in South Florida.

And so it's really important when we have our weekly meetings with our people, it's not just about business. It's we first find out how they're doing, and we make sure that we ask them how we can pray with them, and then we pray with them, and then we get our details done. But we want to make sure that they know they're a priority, they're a priority once a week, where they have dedicated time on our schedules.

That's how we create a belonging on our team. But really what iWork4Him's about is creating belong, belonging inside what we call the faith and work movement across the country. One of the things that we've tried to do is share our platform, and we have shared it with thousands and thousands of people over thousands of podcasts to make sure that everybody knows they've got a place here, and we're an equal opportunity promoter of whatever ministry or whatever they're doing or whatever God is doing in their lives, and we make sure they know that they don't have to be the CEO of a billion dollar corporation, and they can be a local janitor who's making an impact with their faith, and we want to share their story, and we've covered from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Is there anything that you would add to that?

Martha: No, I think that, I mean, there's always a little bit, yeah.

Scott Brown: One, one thing that I hear there, though, is a willingness to, to let go of kind of ownership. You're, you're giving others who are in this movement opportunity to share what they're doing and what God's put on their heart.

And it's really a kind of a give it away kind of mindset that's required to create that kind of culture.

Martha: Yes, God has told us from the very beginning to hold loosely to what we do and to lift up what he is doing through others. So it's not about us. We might be the mouthpiece. We might be the one giving words to it, but it's not our you know, we have our own story, but every day we're lifting up God's story.

Jim: And it's important to understand, Scott, we don't own it. We're, you know, we're stewards. We're all stewards. You know, people always say, well, give God back 10% of what of what you have. No! You're giving God back 10% of what he's already given you 100% of, just to test you, to make sure that your faith is strong enough to trust him with 90%.

It just, it's important to understand, we don't own it. It's not ours. In fact, We did iWork4Him and started as a for profit business and the Lord said No, non profit, buddy. You got to give it all up. It's not yours. I said, okay That that was a little bit of an exercise in my grip.

Martha: As an entrepreneur, saying Okay, Lord , it's yours.

Jim: It's all yours.

Scott Brown: Right? Well just quickly How exciting has it been for you all to see what God has done with that after you've given it up? I mean just share a little bit You know, how have you seen God take what you've given through the years? Well, quickly.

Martha: Yes, I know really quickly. You're doing a good job of leading this conversation. It's just amazing to see how God loves to show off and you know Show up and show off if we are looking for it and seeing how he It does immeasurably more than we could ever ask or imagine.

And that's not always in the area of finances. It is in conversations that we could have never imagined if we, if it had gone our way or with just the way that we orchestrated something in our mind that we thought it was going to be. And then God walked it out differently. You know, it's just been amazing to see that process and, and walking in that faith every single day.

Scott Brown: Well, thank you. And, and, you know, we're going to take a short break from our conversation with Jim and Martha Brangenberg with iWork4Him Ministries. We're going to be right back.

Break: Do you want to make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full time ministry right where you are.

The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with, none of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book. iWork4Him by going to iWork4Him. com / bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself.

You're working for the Lord!

Tammy Heim: Welcome back to our conversation with Jim and Martha. I'm Tammy Heim, president and CEO of Christian Leadership Alliance. And I have to tell you, I love that we're flipping the seat with the two of you today. So I want to keep the conversation going. And I felt like we learned so much even in that first segment, but I want to go a little bit deeper and I want to just understand what are the core principles, are the values that are really guiding you as a Christian leader in your ministry and the work that you do every day?

Jim: She, Martha pointed at me, you can't see it on video, but Martha pointed at me. So, for me, it's two things that really drive it. Generosity is one of my core principles that we have put onto iWork4Him. It's always about everybody else, and it's about sharing our platform with everybody else. Without generosity - knowing that when you experience true, true generosity, it's the most freeing thing we can experience as a human being after salvation.

So generosity is a core principle for me, and boldness. Sometimes we just have to be bold. And we get to interview people from all ranks and files across the country, and sometimes you gotta ask tough questions. Because sometimes people have a hard time sharing what God's really doing in their lives. And the boldness allows us to really capture what God is really doing.

And that's not one of our corporate core principles. That's one of my core principles. As a corporation, Martha, we've got the two major core principles that we travel with all day long.

Martha: Yeah. So collaboration is one of them. And I think you kind of heard that in the first segment where we talked about, you know, it's not ours, you know, and we're trying to just bring people together and have that conversation about what God's doing all over the world and God gives us that opportunity to help us to collaborate In so many different ways and so that is really important to us.

Jim: And strategic connection One of the things that iWork4Him has become Famous for around the country is making connections when we meet with somebody whether we're interviewing them or meeting them at a conference. I'm almost always prompted, oh, you need to connect this person to this person that you already know.

And that is something that is such a gift to us within the kingdom to be able to connect people and then we walk away and then to find out years later what God has done with that. That is really fun.

Tammy Heim: I know. That makes it worth it all. I have to tell you, in the years that I've known both of you, I have observed all of that, everything that you just said, and I've received it.

And I know that it's been a deep blessing in my life as a ministry leader and with the work that we're accomplishing through Christian Leadership Alliance. So thank you for your faithfulness to stay true to the things that you know, that matter most in your life. Now, in the first segment, you talked a little bit about listening.

And I think Martha you specifically talked about the fact that you hear so many great examples. So clearly, listening is important because you to do an awful lot of listening through your podcast. How does that really end up impacting you as a leader? I mean, what are some of the fruit from that that you can point to and say: now, this has really shaped our journey and how we lead?

Martha: Oh, man. So, I think the biggest thing is that when we get to have that front row seat, when we are listening to somebody's story and we see how God impacted each individual being able to apply that in our own lives, our desire is to be leaders worth following, not in the, not that we're looking for a following, but if we are leading someone in our team or in a conversation that it is going to lead them to Christ. And so ultimately you know, desiring for that listening to have that kind of an outcome. And so it is our pleasure to hear the stories of what God is doing in people's lives.

Tammy Heim: I know. Again, to watch you and observe that how you can just tap into and read people so well and get to those all important conversations about Jesus and salvation and really what all of us have been called to do, that choose to follow Jesus. Now, I know that you are consumers of lots of different kind of content and that you are committed lifelong learners.

I mean, I've always been impressed just how open you are to new ideas. Are there some things, though, that you do practically and intentionally just to stay on the path of being a lifelong learner?

Martha: Well, currently something that we are doing together is we're actually going through couples strength finders training. So it has been a very eye opening to say the least.

Jim: Why does she look at me?

Martha: I'm just looking for his response. But what's really cool is as we've been going through this process, so we both went through some strength finders coaching on our own, and then we found out we could do it together and learn how to compliment each other in our strengths.

And to understand the areas that we're not strong in and that, you know, we have many things that complement and then we have like polar opposites of some things. But what we've seen is that in hindsight, how God has used that to form, iWork4Him. Both of us, very high strength and responsibility. Well when we hear somebody's story or we hear about an organization that's doing something amazing, God naturally created us with that responsibility to share it with others, hence iWork4Him.

I mean, we didn't know that nine years ago. We see that now as we've learned about it. So that's something that, and we've intentionally gone through other leadership trainings over the year together so that we can hold each other accountable and learn how those things in our marriage and in our organization and in our day to day, they can be played out.

Jim: And Martha learns better because she's a better listener. And so for me, I've got three mentors, that's one of the things I'd learn from. I have three guys that are older than me that are pouring their lives into me because one's not enough, because I wear them out. And I read a ton, and I have to, I have to ration my reading because I love to read fiction and nonfiction. And so we read a lot for the show. I probably read 30 or as many as 70 books in a year for the show. And I've cut that back to 30 or so books. But then I try to read, I may read 40 fiction books during the year. Christian fiction, so they always have a kind of a theme to them.

But I just love to learn, and of course, I love going to church. What's really cool is this incredible lady from the Christian Leadership Alliance said you should check out our church during COVID. And so we've been going to church in Nashville, but we live in Fort Myers for two years! And it's been great learning under a pastor who gets iWork4Him.

Tammy Heim: Absolutely. Well, I, I'm excited about this journey that you talked about, about understanding each other's strengths. You know, I've been a student of that for many years, and it's exciting to see that there's new things God can reveal about our partners and our spouses as time goes on, that just makes us smarter in how we work and more knowledgeable and actually appreciate the things in our partners that maybe at some point might have been annoying.

But once we understand that it's God's gift to us, we respond to it a little bit differently. Now, from my publishing experience, you two did the most epic thing that I've ever seen. Last year, you published three books and released them all at once in the same year. So, you wrote and published, iWork4Him, iRetire4Him, and sheWorks4Him.

And again what an amazing gift to those that are really trying to integrate faith into all areas of our lives. So, can we just take a minute and give us like a short synopsis on each of them and then what would you say is just the overarching theme that you're really trying to bring out in each one of them?

Jim: I think that'd be great, but I think what we should do is go to break and come back and answer that question.

Tammy Heim: Well, you know what, Jim, we can do just that.

Break: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town. Well, lean in, because here's a message from that kind of person.

The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be. Go to awakenpodcastnetwork. com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends. You will find a gathering place of podcasts that provide simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today.

Go ahead, check out awakeandpodcastnetwork. com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend!

Tammy Heim: Welcome back. Today we're flipping the seats with Jim and Martha Brangenberg who are traditionally the hosts of this podcast and we're going to pick up on the conversation we had right before the break. So again, Authors of three books released all in the same year.

iWork4Him. iRetire4Him and sheWorks4Him. Give us the story on each one of them and just help us understand the reasoning between all three at once and just the underlying theme that you hoped would sink into the hearts of many.

Jim: All right. I'll start with this one because this was my baby.

And what's really important to the story is that. You know, when we went on the air in 2013, everybody said you guys should write a book because everybody that's on the radio has a book. That's how they get famous. We're like, well, first of all, we'll write a book when God tells us to write a book. We're not going to write a book to be famous.

That's not important. In January of 2020, two and a half months before COVID got released on our great country. I said, Martha, it's, it's time to write a book, but it's not one. It's three.

Martha: So basically, Martha, we're having triplets.

Jim: And then of course, people said, that's stupid, that's crazy, you can't do it. But we did it anyway.

Martha: Tammy was right there like, what are you talking about?

Jim: iWork4Him, written for the everyday believer, really to change the way they're thinking about the connection of their faith and their work. And this book, not written for the, just for executives, this is written for everybody who's going to work, who calls themselves a Jesus follower.

And it's my story shared in there, Martha's story shared in there. And really just the practical, the tactical, the factual, and the biblical ways of living out your faith and your work. And then 22 chapters after what we wrote from other ministries that specifically want to pour their lives into our readers.

So this is a collaborative effort between all of our books. We had 52 contributors to all of our books because we wanted to not only give people a challenge, but then connect them to ministries that could take that challenge to a whole nother level.

Martha: And then sheWorks4Him, which is Embrace Your Calling as a Christian woman at work, has 19 women sharing their story of some way that God has helped them to embrace their work as a Christian working woman, where there is just a real lack of resources in that area. And what's amazing, it's 19 different stories that God wrote in each individual's lives.

Jim: And then finally, iRetire4Him. Here's where this came from. Martha's dad, when we went on the air in 2013, he goes, Jim and Martha, I love iWork4Him, and I used to iWork4Him, but I don't iWork4Him anymore. iRetire4Him. Mic drop. Wow. That's what it started, and we kept playing with that idea, and we did some shows with retirees, and we called them iRetire4Him shows.

This is a handbook, again, practical, tactical, factual, and biblical, for those who are considering retirement, quote unquote. Or are already in retirement to know here's what God's got for you and in store for you in your retirement years because retirement's not biblical unless you're a Levitical priest.

That's the only time it's mentioned in scriptures and there isn't, I've never met one of those yet. But God's got a purpose for you in your next stage and you are desperately needed in the next generation. So this book is all about how do you pour your life into that of someone in the next generation.

And again, Eight chapters at the end from people saying we would love to use you in our organization Or I can help take you to the next level. And and we've got podcasts by all the same three names that we produce every week.

Martha: And i'm not sure if you mentioned but my dad actually wrote His stories at the end of iWork4Him and iRetire4Him at the end of each chapter As we walk through his journey of working for the Lord and retiring for the Lord and in his life, I mean, just the way God played it out, because fortunately that is the life that my dad led has led and he is a great storyteller. So he gives us a practical application that just is fun to read as well.

Tammy Heim: Well, what an incredible gift to Christians in the workplace that are really longing and seeking how to integrate and how to bring God into it and how to give what they're doing back to God and be faithful in their assignments. Thank you for that gift to all of us.

Scott Brown: And I'm going to ask the simple question because it sounds like there's something in there for everyone, really, no matter where you are in your stage of career or even those who've retired. How do you get it? How do you get the books?

Jim: What's the easy way? iWork4Him. com / bookstore . I work the number 4 him. com / bookstore.

Martha: Bookstore. There you go. Great. And I just want to say, you know, because we're, we're, you know, the Christian Leadership Alliances is for Nonprofits, we've had this conversation. This is not just a secular conversation.

This is within the four walls of every organization. Whether they're serving the Lord in all that they do, or serving the orphans, or serving the hamburgers, we all have a call to work for Him. And so that applies, and sometimes it's harder to do within the four walls of an organization that has a culture that we're focused on Jesus every day.

Sometimes we forget what that really means in our own work as an accountant or a HR manager.

Tammy Heim: Well, and I believe when you think about it, God designed work before the fall. Amen. So it's always been God's intention. And so for all of us, no matter where he's assigned us, to be able to do that unto him and for his glory.

Jim: Something we talk about all the time, Tammy, is the word for work in the Old Testament is also the same as the word for worship and service. And so every time God gave us work as a way to worship him.

Tammy Heim: Amen.

Scott Brown: Amen. Well, that thought really ties into something as we're coming to the close of today's podcast. Something we always like to do is to give an opportunity to share a leadership idea or thinking or something that God's put on your heart.

And I'd just like to invite you both to maybe build on that with something that you would encourage other leaders who are listening to, to us today.

Martha: You know, I think that one of the things that's actually very surprising is when you read the scripture through the lens of your work and leadership, our eyes are open very differently to what God has been saying to us all these years.

So right now I'm using actually the Faith and Work Bible and reading through that to get that lens, that perspective, that reminder of what God has to say to us that's so applicable. Sometimes we look at it again, that segmented conversation, you know, where we think that the Bible applies in our, only in our home. Not that we mean to do that, but when you look at it specifically through that lens of work it really can impact the leadership that you are allowing God to use you for.

Jim: And for me, Scott, it's this one sentence. This should shape every believer. As a Jesus follower, everything about you should be changing, and everyone around you should be benefiting from your faith, whether they believe in Jesus or not.

Scott Brown: Salt and light. Yeah, beautiful. Well, thank you both. I just echo what Tammy said.

We so appreciate the partnership that we at Christian Leadership Alliance have had with you all through the years. We appreciate the work of iWork4Him and the mission that God has put on your heart that's impacting leaders across the nation and around the world So thanks for this opportunity to talk with you today.

Jim: Thanks for having us.

Martha: It's been our pleasure Thank you.

Tammy Heim: And we kind of like these seats. So thanks for sharing them with us. Well, we've enjoyed the seats, but we're going to give them back to you and we'll let you close.

Jim: Yeah, thanks to Tammy Heim and Scott Brown for interviewing us today. It was a lot of fun.

Break: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some, that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest, that is your mission field.

To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Outro: Thanks for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him. com. I work the number for him. com.

5/23/23 - Al Lopus: The Road to Flourishing

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd t Riley, producer of the iWork4Him Radio Program, the Voice of the Faith and Work Movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: We have an incredible conversation coming up today with Al Lopus, co-founder and c e o with Best Christian Workplaces Institute. We'll be focusing on how Al and his team lead and strive to create a culture belonging at Best Christian Workplaces Institute and within all of the organizations they work with.

Al Lopus, welcome.

Al Lopus: Hey, it's great to be with you. Thanks. I'm, I'm pleased to be back and and looking forward to seeing you in person at the outcomes Conference.

Jim: Yeah. Just a few weeks away. Before we get started, talking about your leadership role and perspectives of how God is using you to create a cultural belonging at Best Christian Workplaces Institute and the ones that you have influence over.

Tell us how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ-centered.

Al Lopus: Yeah, great question, Jim, because you know, Don't we all wanna finish strong in our leadership? And as I think about finishing strong, as I've read about it and as I've put things in practice I have a definite discipline around, around this topic.

And actually it integrates the spiritual, emotional, and physical aspects of my life. And so if I'm strong in each of those areas that really also underpins my spiritual strength and foundation. And, you know, to do that, you know, it's the traditional disciplines. You know, I have a purpose, a spiritual purpose that I've written, and that's important to me.

And I grow in my relationship with God and to regularly experience a union with Christ while bearing the fruit of the spirit and service to others. And so, in order to do that, I think about that. I focus on it. And so I have a daily devotional time. I hardly ever miss it. I've, I've started to listen to a couple of spiritual devotional podcasts.

Just for the audience Pray as You Go is one or Electio 365. Of course there's you version and other, other studies and, but then, you know, the Bible is the core. Prayer is the core on a daily basis. Even some meditation is part of that then. On a quarterly basis, I actually have implemented now for the last several years, quarterly spiritual days.

I'll take a day off and I'll go to a place where I can focus on, on just quiet a quiet day of scripture reading of prayer, devotion, meditation, and I find that to be rich. And then back on a, on a daily basis no, I'm sorry, on an annual basis. I'll also take a three day, kind of a prayer and fasting retreat every January.

That's how I start my year off. And so those are some of the spiritual aspects. Of course there's a weekly Sabbath that I try to keep as well. And then from a physical standpoint you know, I believe that that really impacts my spiritual life as well. And so I exercise pretty close to five days a week.

And then for rest and vacation, you know, sun and beach is just something that I, that I find really restorative, emotionally. The third part you know, that's really wrapped around relationships. And I make my wife a cup of tea every morning, Jim and Martha, I don't know if that's something that Jim does for you, but

Jim: I get her a diet Pepsi in the morning. That's what she wants.

Al Lopus: That's what she likes. Well, that's time I spend with my wife every morning. And of course then there's small groups that I have as well. But kind of a long answer to your question, but it's all integrated and it's something that, again, I wanna finish strong. And and as I've talked with mentors and as I've experienced over my, this year will be my 50th year as a, as a believer that's how I've maintained it.

Martha: You know, there's great intentionality in the things that you just told us. And I think that it's good to hear other people's rhythms so that we can learn from each other and go, oh, there's a new idea. Or there's something that I've been talking about doing, but actually doing it and implementing it.

So thanks for sharing that with us. So I have a question that has to do with the Outcomes conference theme, which is I belong. So how do you at the Best Christian Workplaces Institute create - what are the keys for creating that culture of belonging with your own team?

Al Lopus: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the belonging theme is a great theme that we need to focus on as Christian organizations because people need to feel like they're part of something even bigger. We call that life giving work, you know, is the work that you're doing, life giving? Well, if you don't feel like you belong, then that doesn't really reinforce life giving. So, so we practice that.

And that's a big issue for us at the Best Christian Workplaces Institute. And that's actually something that we work with organizations to do. You know, so we have a rhythm also, like I've described as spiritual rhythm. We have a rhythm with meetings, you know, so that part of our meetings is a, is a fellowship and camaraderie time.

Every week we have a 90 minute leadership team meeting, and the beginning of that meeting - and we're virtual, so our people are all over the country and we're not in the same room. And so we have to work a little harder at that to make sure that that's part of our culture. So, you know, part of our 90 minute leadership team meeting every week is is that social fellowship interaction.

We also have weekly all team prayer meetings. You know, we sometimes will have an honor chair where we put somebody in the honor chair and everybody in the meeting we'll communicate a positive aspect about that person's personality that really strikes them, and then pray into that.

Or we'll have a hot seat where we'll put focus on somebody's needs and pray for those needs on a weekly basis. So that's another kind of a, of a belonging experience. One of the things we found also is the one-on-ones between employees and their supervisors. And we have implemented that.

That's something that we found is really important and for a lot of Christian organizations that we talk with, we encourage that because that's the way that especially was during covid. That's the way org people were able to connect with the organization was through their frontline supervisor.

And so to have any sense of belonging, you know, there needed to be that kind of emotional connection. And organizations that did that better than others came out stronger after Covid. I mean, so there's, those are just a few of the things that, that we do, Martha.

Jim: Now, when you take those ideas of how you're operating within your own organization, then you have influence as you talk with organizations across the country and rate them in the Best Christian Workplaces Institute and, and influence them.

What kind of challenges do you see in implementing that kind of a strategy in other people's organizations in order to help them create a belonging culture?

Al Lopus: Well you've asked the question even what, what's the challenge to doing this? And, you know, the challenge is time.

You know, just the sense that is this important? And is this important to our organization? You know, am I gonna get a return on that investment of time and I'll say over and over and over again. Absolutely. Because, you know, with a strong engaged workforce that feels like they belong and connected and it's in a place, you know, even the definition of engagement is where people bring their discretionary effort to the organization to help the organization succeed.

Well, you know, that only happens through inspiration, and that's through personal relationships and this sense of belonging. So are they willing to put the time in to actually create those kinds of experiences? That's the issue that you know, and maybe it's because, well, I'm not willing to put the time in a leader might say, and it's because they don't understand the value of it. Sometimes we see that, but yeah, It's critically important.

Jim: Yeah. Appreciate the answer. And time. Time, something we all feel starved of yet. It's the one thing that our savior never seemed to have too much of or not enough of. He always seemed to be able to manage the clock better than anybody we know. You're listening to the Outcomes Conference Podcast as we talk today with Al Lopus from Best Christian Workplaces Institute. We'll be right back with more conversation.

Break: Do you wanna make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full-time ministry, right where you are, the job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with.

None of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field. Change the way you think about faith and work by picking up a copy of our new book iWork4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/bookstore. And remember, you aren't just working for yourself. You're working for the Lord!

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast as we talk today with Al Lopus.

He's the founder and c e o of the Best Christian Workplaces Institute. Got a great book coming out. We're gonna talk about that in just a minute. Al, what are the top two core principles that guide you daily? If you were to narrow down core principles that guide you personally daily, what are those?

Al Lopus: Well, the first thing as a leader and I've discovered this talking with great leaders on my podcast over time. And that is that you can't give what you don't have. So, you know, what is it that you actually have as a leader that you can give to others, you know, as you shepherd the flock that God is entrusted with you?

And so making sure that you are In a position where you're preyed up, where you are resourced, where you're ready to give and have something to give, then you know, that's the first thing. Cuz if you're burned out, if you're at the end of your rope, if you are, you know in a lousy you know, situation or a poor situation you don't have anything to give, then, you know people are gonna look someplace else for leadership.

So, I'll say you can only give what you have. And that's the first thing. The second thing I'd say is for me, I don't ask people to do something that I wouldn't do myself. And that's kind of an integrity issue. I learned that pretty early in my career as I was leading others.

And I found that if, if I was willing to do it, then I could ask somebody else to do something, whatever it would be. So, yeah, make the coffee, whatever.

Jim: Clean the toilet. If you're not willing to clean the toilet, how do you ask somebody else to do it? As a leader, you gotta be willing to do everything.

Martha: As long as you make good coffee, because like, that would not be my role. I'm just saying. So I dunno how to do that. But, you know, but what a great couple of things that we can take with us and, and be reminded of in our own leadership, that we can look to.

So, Al, I'm curious. Where does learning fit into your role as a leader? Because not only are you an influencer in your own organization, but yet all of the workplaces that you encounter because of your organization. So where does learning fit into all that for you?

Al Lopus: Yeah, I'd like to think well, actually I have, you know, one of my goals is to be a lifelong learner.

And again, you know, I learned this at CLA. Leaders are readers. Now, you know, there's lots of ways of consuming as another way of describing it, consuming information of learning. But I've taken a number of the CLA courses, for example. You know, that those have been very thoughtful and helpful.

But I read books. In fact a lot of listeners will know John Pearson. I, I listen to John Pearson and in fact I'm reading a book right now called Winning on Purpose, and it's a tremendous book from Frederick Reichhold on the Net Promoter score. Many people know what that is.

And, and, but yeah, I read books and that gives me a lot of ideas. So I'm, I'm the one in our organization that's bringing new ideas, discussing new ideas. You know, Donald Miller has a whole bunch of good ideas. Michael Hyatt, somebody else. I listen to their podcasts. Every day I'm listening to some podcast from some leader.

I was listening to John Maxwell this morning. So, so every day I'm listening to a lot of podcast. Of course, there's the annual outcomes conference. I can't help but mention that. And I also go to the Global Leadership Summit every year, so to avail myself to the top Christian speakers.

And again, at GLS even, they bring in non-Christian thought leaders, which I think is an important type of person to learn from. You know, and again, put my own biblical worldview into into what I'm learning. But yeah, just learning from all types of things. I mean yep.

Break: You never stop learning. That's for sure.

Jim: What about listening? Where does listening fit into your growth as a leader?

Al Lopus: Oh, no, you're really kind of starting to poke at, at something that's at my core, you know. So. Listening. Communication is one of the most important things that any leader can do effectively.

And, and I remember talking at a debriefing of one of our ministry partners and they said, oh, we have professional communicators that will, you know, address this communication issue that we have. And I'm saying, this was a church. And I said, what you mean by communicator is not what I mean by communicator.

You mean a communicator as a preacher. And the first part of what I'm talking about of communication is listening. Because if we don't listen first, then we, we miss the whole, the whole issue. Listening is a part of two-way communication. So even we ask in our employee survey questions, does my supervisor seek my suggestions?

I mean, that's listening. Or is the organization acting on my suggestions? That's where people really start to feel engagement. Well, they've listened and they actually listened so well they're changing as a result of my input, you know, or, or do I feel involved in decisions that impact me?

Those are questions we ask in our employee engagement survey. So listening is a core part of an effective organization and effective leadership. So, for example, you know, as a CEO and co-founder I'm usually the last one to express my opinion in any kind of a group meeting.

You know, we've all seen where, where a CEO, no matter how they might say it, if they express their opinion, it's usually the end of the conversation because, well, that's how he thinks or she thinks Their attitude, their response is more important than mine, you know, so I'm done.

You know, we'll just go with that. And that's never effective, you know? Also, how do you listen? Well, you ask open-ended questions. That's another thing that I I like to do. I, I've studied appreciative inquiry. What are some positive, open-ended, future-oriented questions that, that you can ask to get at a situation? And also, you know, before we implement any kind of a new process, I wanna make sure I've listened to the people who that process is gonna impact. You know, if it's gonna be even salary decreases. Oh gosh. Well, let's talk about what's the best way to do that? What's important to you?

You know, just to talk about a sensitive topic, so, you know, getting people as the question we ask I feel involved in decisions that impact me well that's listening. Yeah. So Jim, you, you really hit on a, on a core thing for me.

Jim: Well, I love it. We're talking today with Al Lopus right here on the Outcomes Conference podcast.

When we come back, we're gonna talk about his brand new book that was voted the Christian Leadership Alliance book of the year. The Road to Flourishing, not the road. It is Road to Flourishing: eight keys to boost employee engagement and wellbeing. We'll be right back with more from Al Lopus.

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Go ahead. Check out awaken podcast network.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast. Thanks again to Faith search partners.com for being your sponsor of the show today. We're talking today with Al Lopus. Check him out online. Best Christian Workplaces institute. What's the website, Al? For some reason it just slipped my mind.

Al Lopus: Oh, it's bcw institute.org.

Jim: Bcw institute.org. All right. You just finished your new book. It's getting released at the Christian Leadership Alliance annual event in 2022. The name of the book, Road to Flourishing - God's Idea Behind Work - Road to Flourishing: eight keys to Boost Employee Engagement and Wellbeing. All right. Tell us about the book. Tell us about the book.

Al Lopus: Well, Jim, let's start off. I believe that Christian led workplaces should set the standard as the best, most effective places to work in the world. Nonstop, you know, best, most effective places to work.

And so my hope is that readers will capture a vision of how they can create a flourishing workplace, not only for their team, but for their organization. So that's what I hope will be the outcome. And what's unique about this book is this is not Al Lopus's sense of what creates a Best Christian Workplaces.

And I've been doing this for a long time. It's, it's actually a statistical analysis of what creates a Christian workplace and a flourishing Christian workplace. So we've taken research. We've taken hundreds of thousands of employees input through questionnaires and taken that data and done a statistical analysis to determine the outcome and the outcomes tell us there's eight drivers that really impact engagement in Christian led workplaces.

And so this book, it's their stories and some teaching about what those eight are and how an organization can actually improve their culture.

Martha: So you have had such an amazing overview of so many organizations, and I love this approach because what I'm hearing you say is it's not like, well, I feel like it might be a good idea to do this.

You're saying we've seen the results, we've seen that when these are implemented, this helps. So give us one of those areas just as an idea, just a sneak peek. Just a sneak peek of what one of those keys to boost employee engagement and wellbeing might be.

Al Lopus: Well, the most important... so we've also calculated using relative weights analysis, how important each of the eight are.

So I'll just lead off with the most important, that's inspirational leadership. And so leadership is the key. That is, we've found the most important driver of employee engagement and Christian led organizations, and that, that encompasses three aspects. One is A person's character, and particularly Christian character.

I mean, that's at the basis. And for Christian led organizations, I mean the Christian culture is really a competitive advantage. It's, it's, you know, we take it for granted too many times. But it starts with a leader's character, and then there's competence. One of the questions we ask - is the organization well managed?

Well, when there are good systems and processes in place, then relationships work more smoothly. There's less conflict and relationships are healthier. So, so that's part of inspirational leadership is the not only character, but the competence of the leader. And then, Also we find when there's high levels of trust between leaders and employees, between teams, more gets done.

And that's the glue of every organization. That's what brings positive people together, working positively together. So, that's inspirational leadership. Yeah.

Break: That's so good. And so who do you hope reads this book? Because like when you're looking at an organization, is it only the HR person that you want to read it?

Or who do you really want to read the book and, and apply it?

Al Lopus: So this is targeted to a couple levels. First is the leaders of an organization, the c e O, the executive director, the president. For them and many of the people that we've interviewed and included in the book are those people in Best Christian Workplaces.

So that's, that's the start. And then there's the C-suite, and then there's everybody that actually manages people, you know. This is a, this is an opportunity for training and development, for current managers and supervisors and people that will see themselves becoming managers and supervisors because it will inform to them what is important to create a healthy workplace again for their team, you know, for their group, for the organization.

Jim: You know, Al, you stated something at the beginning of this segment that you believe that as Christ followers, the workplaces that we provide should be the best workplaces in the world. And we say something on our show all the time, that I really believe is the statement of faith that all believers should have.

As Jesus followers, everything about us is changing. And because of that change, everyone around us should be benefiting from our faith, whether they believe in Jesus or not. And that's the essence of the Christian workplace. Everybody should be benefiting from the faith that the leaders who are following Jesus, whether they're having, whether they happen to follow Jesus or not, they should be benefiting from it.

Do you agree with that statement or not?

Al Lopus: Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I believe this kind of gets at my holy discontent in a sense. So my point is, That if a Christian is working and serving Christ in a Christian workplace, their faith should grow.

My discontent is when I hear about leaders or employees who, because of a toxic workplace environment, have actually seen their faith hurt or you know, and I've heard of people who have left the faith because of the experiences they've had in a toxic workplace. I think that's wrong. And so let's work together to make sure that our faith is growing as we serve because that's what's gonna attract other peoples to Christ.

You know, I believe again, a healthy, flourishing Christian workplace is gonna attract others to that organization and because it's a Christian workplace, they'll be attracting people to Christ. I mean, that's, that's kind of gets at the core of why I do what I do.

Jim: And that is a powerful leadership idea that we can all learn from. Al Lopus. Thanks.

Al Lopus: Great to be with you. Thank you.

Martha: And congratulations on your book being chosen as the Christian Leadership Alliance Book of the Year for 2022.

Al Lopus: Yeah, thanks, Martha. I'm really excited about that.

Jim: And make sure you check out Al and his whole team and BCWInstitute.org.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him, and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

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Your review will launch more Workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him.com.

5/16/23 - Tom Beck: Creating a Culture of Compassion

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Todd t Riley, producer of the iWork4Him Radio Program, the Voice of the Faith and Work Movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together, let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy.

Jim: We have an incredible conversation today coming up with Tom Beck, chief People and culture Officer with Compassion International. Hope to focusing on how Tom and his team lead and strive to create a culture of belonging at Compassion International.

Tom Beck, welcome.

Tom Beck: Good to be with you too. Thank you very much.

Jim: So before we get started talking about your leadership role and your perspective of how God is using you to create a culture of belonging at Compassion International. Tell us how you keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ-centered.

Tom Beck: Yeah, you know, it's really about, probably certain habits I've picked up along the way. You know, you've got your spiritual disciplines, you know, time with the Lord and Bible study and prayer, but. It's also really slowing down to listen, take time to listen to where God's leading me, to the guidance of the Spirit, but also to others.

You know I firmly believe we're created to relate to him but relate to each other and that, you know, you've got, there's a lot of power in those conversations. And so it's really slowing myself down at times, whether it's early morning or when I travel or with my wife or with my coworkers or my partners that I work with.

That really, those two things, the habits and the listening is really probably the two things that have the biggest impact on me in my journey.

Martha: So I'm just curious, what does that look like when you slow down? Cuz I think a lot of people listening, it sounds so good. But it's, but it's so much easier said than done.

What does that actually look like?

Tom Beck: Part of it is the, actually, it's the time of day for me. I am, my wife would call me an abusively early morning person. My day usually starts around 4:00 AM And so I, I have learned in the rhythms in my life that my most productive times and are, are during those quiet hours.

She is not a morning person, so we're not crashing each other in the kitchen. And it's a time for me just to reflect and you know, it's a peaceful, quiet time to be able to do that. And as you know, the day gets going and it gets busy and things kind of get crowded out. But it's also I have opportunities, you know, in either commuting, cuz I live in Denver and I drive down in Colorado Springs where I can connect with the Lord just quietly driving or with friends on my commute time.

Before Covid I traveled quite a bit, so a lot of quiet time. You know, you sit in airports or you're on airplanes and you just have different rhythms that you find. Listening to podcasts, you know, I appreciate the work you do because it is it's just a new world. I used to be a avid reader and that kind of got crowded out.

So being able to listen to things as well as part of the rhythm is, and, but it's also just understanding my, my own daily rhythms and when the quiet times are the best for me, which are, yeah, as my wife said, abusively early in the morning.

Martha: That's just, I love that line. I love that description. So, you know, for a lot, for a lot of us, it sounds to me like it's, it's just being aware of the opportunities God gives you and leaning into those, because a lot of people, you know, don't think of their commute as quiet time. But it can be if we see the opportunity that God gives us. So thanks for sharing that and diving in a little deeper.

So, I wanna talk about the theme of the Outcomes Conference for 2022. It is I belong. And I'm curious how you as a leader at Compassion International, especially in your role create that culture for your team of belonging.

Tom Beck: It's a great question cuz it's actually very timely with the work we're doing. We have what we call a neighbor prom. In the neighborhood where our workforce happens is one of the neighbors that we identify, and it's based on the Good Samaritan parable. And love your neighbor as yourself and who is your neighbor. And we've, we've come up with a brand promise that's called known, loved, and connected. And so it's really striving to, starting with my team and an extension of my team and into our global workforce, is to really have them start to feel that sense of being known, loved, and connected.

The other thing that's important for us, and at least for my direct team, is to create a sense of safety. And safety from the standpoint of that we can - we know each other. We trust each other and we, but it takes time.

Jim: Well, yeah. So talk about that. I mean, getting to know people does take time. I mean, how do you facilitate people to get known with each other on their team? I mean, that's, that takes time. That's like picnics, that's like dinners. I mean, how do you guys do it?

Tom Beck: Well, pre covid, we spent a lot of time together. We were, you know, our headquarters is in Colorado Springs, so I was able to do a lot of walk around, meet and greet people.

Most of my team actually is based in the field in the 26 countries that we work in. So, I travel quite a bit. In covid it is one of the, honestly, it's one of the bigger challenges we have is, you know, just like this, setting up a Zoom call and trying to connect with people and get to know 'em. There's intentionality around that.

I, I will admit, during the Covid environment and being on Zoom, you have to set aside time to connect with people. If you have a full agenda, you've gotta put time into the agenda on the front end or on the back end. Ideally, it's on the front end to just say, Hey, catch up with each other. How's, how's life treating you?

How's the family doing? How can we be praying for each other? But it takes time. There is no getting around that, and it's intentional time that I personally invest in the team that I'm shepherding. And then it kind of rep replicates itself from there.

Martha: You know, it's crazy because like you said, like pre covid, those beginnings of especially Zoom meetings drove me crazy.

Yeah. I'm like, let's get down to business. But as time has gone on, I have seen the value in that. So I'm so much more appreciative. I'm not a banter person. And a lot of times, you know, there's that because people are trying to like get in each other's lives quickly. But you're saying it actually helps to, you know, with the culture and to get to connected, and I love that it's a part of what you guys are intentionally doing.

So what are some of the challenges that you've encountered in trying to create that same space of belonging in that workplace culture?

Tom Beck: Yeah. Well, one that we were just talking about is distance, and that actually existed before Covid because as I mentioned, you know, we're a third of our employee base is in the United States. Two thirds are in the 26 countries that we work in. And so we were kind of in a, a global environment to begin with, from a remote perspective. So it's added to it. We did have the habits kind of built in to begin with. But then it's, you know, it's kinda like pouring fuel on an open flame when Covid hit it.

Just made it, you know, that much more challenging. We also do a lot just doing assessment work and, and two things. We use some testing, you know, like Myers-Briggs and disc and different things, just so you start to get to understand people a little bit better. And that helps on the known part. And we intentionally set aside time for team development.

The other thing that we do, and we're starting to see things open up, is just make sure we have intentional team time together.

Jim: So what do you do when people don't wanna be known?

Tom Beck: That's a really good question. You know, Jim, I think it, it's interesting cuz when you create cultures where that becomes part of it, it's almost like it attracts certain people. And in other cases, someone might, I don't wanna say self-select out. They might say, Hey, you know, you, you always wanna be respectful of boundaries. And so it doesn't mean, okay, everybody let's, you know, open our hearts up and tell what's going on with their families all the time.

But if you create the right safe environment, people become, it becomes attractive to them, right? And I, again, I see it in my own team, the extended team that I lead globally, and then, you know, hopefully that begins to replicate itself within the organization as well.

Jim: Fantastic. Hey, you're listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast as we talk with Scott Beck today. Well, nope, not Scott Beck. How about Tom Beck? Scott's his brother. I did that on purpose.

Tom Beck: Scott's my brother.

Martha: His brother, we had to get his his name in there.

Jim: I did.

Tom Beck: We look a lot. We look a lot alike, Jim , so that's okay.

Jim: That's right. We're talking with Tom Beck today from Compassion International. We'll be right back.

Break: Do you wanna make an impact for the Kingdom of God without quitting your day job? Then here's some great news. God is calling you into full-time ministry, right where you are. The job that you hold, the work that you do, and the people you work with. None of that is by accident. Your workplace is your mission field.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast as we talk today with Tom Beck from Compassion International.

Tom, you've got an interesting title, Chief People and Culture Officer. That just shows that compassion is very serious about having a good culture for their people. Have you always worked for compassion or, or is this an, I mean, tell, tell us about what's your job history?

Tom Beck: Yeah. I've been with Compassion going on nine years.

Jim: Okay. So prior to other organizations, did they ever have the focus that Compassion did on making sure culture and people were taken care of?

Tom Beck: It was not, not stated. You know, I come out of the private sector, so I was in the mid eighties. I kind of helped start Blockbuster Video. And so from the ground up, I always say you have a culture whether you want it or not. You're gonna have one. And so the intentionality around it, you know, the culture I had back then and then I was also with Boston Market during a startup phase. We were, we tried to be very intentional about it, but as we grew, it got harder and harder to do what that, those core values were and that culture that we wanted to create.

And so with compassion, it's been - you know, we try to be very intentional about it. When I shared with you earlier about the known, loved and connected, that's something we've adopted really in the last couple years. And to change a culture takes a lot of time. And especially when you deal with, you know, the number of staff and volunteers that we have.

But it's rather new. The role myself, the titling is new, but the desire behind it is not new. You know, that's something that I brought into compassion nine years ago, and I'm very, very sensitive to what our culture is and what we want it to be.

Martha: That's so good. So how about in your own personal life, what are a couple of the core principles that drive your Christian leadership?

Tom Beck: I would say one of the first things is what I call don't be your own limiting constraint. What I mean by that is I've learned through the years, and you hear this said a lot, you know, don't try to be the smartest person in the room. I always believe that if you really do that, then you become the limiting constraint.

And so it's really gathering people in from a leadership perspective, that our capacity that have a very different perspective than you do. And to be comfortable with that cause that builds a richer culture and that really feeds itself into diversity as well. And it's not just diversity from a gender or minority perspective. It's really diversity from a thought perspective.

Teams that take longer to form because you have different personalities and different thought process and different background actually are richer teams over time. It just takes longer to do that.

Jim: And when you add in that spiritual component and how people worship differently, when you get all that to gel, all of a sudden you realize, well, you got some in your group that are prophets and some of them are preachers and some are teachers and apostles, and you're like, Wow. Wow. We, we covered the spectrum here. I mean, that's the kind of diversity I love because you, you can, you're getting more of God in your team.

All right, so let's, let's talk about learning for Tom Beck. What, what role does pursuing continuous learning - you said you're listening to podcasts, you're, you've reading has gotten Xed out. I'm not quite sure how come reading got Xed out, but you know...

Martha: Can't read and drive very well.

Jim: Well, how do you accomplish continuous learning in your role?

Tom Beck: One is I, I get really back to the listening part. It's really sitting down, whether it's listening to podcasts, but it's more important, it's really listening to teammates and my peers on our executive team and those outside of compassion and listening to me can take, takes on different forms.

You know, I talked about reading going by the wayside. My wife, also one of my better leadership coaches that I have, tells me I have a little bit of ADD and sometimes she'll say more than a little, like a lot. So my attention span forces me into reading articles and listening to a podcasts more than it does reading a 300 page book.

So I also, I don't know if you've heard of the 70 20 10 principle behind learning. 70% of what you learn is more on the job experience. 20% can come through coaching and mentoring, and then 10% comes through content. And I really embody that. I've, I've seen that in my own journey, that it, it's really a lot about what you learn by experience and then supplementing that with you know, content.

And when I say content, it's it, you know, it could be the reading. It could be the podcast. It could be the seminars I go to. Critically important because they're catalytic. But trying to apply that in my own journey, that's where listening becomes so important. Because also the other thing that's really important is being open to feedback.

And that's, that's difficult at times. I gotta be honest with you. I don't always like hearing the things that sometimes people tell me.

Jim: Yeah. 360 reviews are a little tough.

Martha: But some of the, some of the things that you've said, Tom, I'm getting a picture of you as a leader, as someone with a very open door and you, cuz you've said you like to listen to those that you work with and learn from them as well.

And not being a leader that knows it all. You, you seem to have that air about you that you welcome that opportunity. So I, I appreciate just kind of the little glimpse that we're getting of you as a leader. So in the last minute here of this segment, I would love to hear something about Compassion International that most people don't know.

Just, just throw something at us.

Tom Beck: Sure. The one thing is our core strategy is built around three things: being Christ-centered, being church-based and then being child focused. Probably the one thing that people don't realize is we partner with 8,200 local churches in the 26 countries that we're in. They are the ones that implement our program.

So that strong partnership. I didn't realize that when I got involved with Compassion, cuz I just thought child sponsorship meant raise the money, support the family directly or something. So that partnership with the local church for holistic child development is critical. It's part of our core identity, and we do nothing outside of the local church.

And so that's probably the one thing that most people wouldn't realize about us.

Jim: Wow. Very cool. You listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast, as we talk with Tom Beck from Compassion International. We'll be right back.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast. We talked today with Tom Beck from Compassion International Chief People and Culture Officer. The title, I just love the title. Every organization should have somebody in charge of people and culture, making sure that we get the most outta people.

Cuz when people know they're loved and they are seen and they're known, then they perform at a much higher level. Is that what you guys are seeing, that by, by investing in people and culture, you get a better rate of return on your people?

Tom Beck: Basically I would say yes. I think one of the challenges we have in the ministry context, and this was the difference I noticed between corporate, for-profit sector moving into ministry.

We, we struggle at times really with saying no to things because the demands and the needs are so great and those we're serving you know, and it's a joy to do that. And so that connectedness that we create really creates you know, not only the known, loved, and connected part that I talked about earlier, but it also creates the freedom for people to kind of fail along the way.

Cuz you can't, you can't learn things if you're not willing to fail. It creates really better productivity. And it depends on how you define productivity. And from where I sit, I look at it a little bit differently than maybe our marketing people look at or our program people would look at it.

But yeah, just that sense of belonging, that even what we're talking about, you know, at the conference, it's so critical to really allowing people to thrive and to ultimately find joy in what they do.

Martha: Wow, perfect. You know, and that's really, that's a beautiful connection between belonging and thriving, because when we feel that... That comes from the inside out, it can't be, It's not manufactured. It has to really be, be felt. So talk to, when you think about Compassion International today, what are you most enthusiastic about in terms of the mission and the impact that it's having globally?

Tom Beck: Sure. The thing that I just the greatest joy I get out of, it's really two things.

One is seeing children released from poverty in Jesus' name. Truly seeing that. And seeing it in a local context, as I mentioned earlier, you know, partnering with those churches that minister to those, those children and the youth and the extension of the family. That's probably the thing, Martha, that excites me the most.

And it, it is always there. And being able to see it firsthand like I did before Covid, but we're starting, as I mentioned earlier, we're starting to open back up to travel to see that firsthand. And then really the second thing is the joy I get out with the people I get to work with.

Martha: And give us, give us context for that. Like how many employees or you know, people on mission with compassion and volunteers? Like what is the scope of, of the culture that you are ultimately responsible for?

Tom Beck: Sure. The, the scope, if you add in our staff, our directly paid staff, our church partner, staff, and then volunteers is about 130,000 people.

Jim: Oh, holy smokes. That's a lot of people.

Tom Beck: Yeah, and the beautiful thing about it is that they're local contexts. They're local leadership. So when you're in Burkina Faso, our staff and the church partners are all basically from Burkina Faso. So there's a richness to the culture that is, can be complex at times, but it is a beautiful thing to be a part of.

And just to see the body of Christ at work in, in that context. You know, Jim, you talked about spiritual gifts and to see that Manifest itself on a day-to-day basis is incredibly powerful, and it's a joy to be a part of that.

Jim: Richness of the kingdom when we're one day altogether in one place. How incredible will that be? All right, Tom, as we close out this podcast, the Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders come to invest the best of what they know and other leaders. Tom, what leadership idea or thinking would you like to share as an investment in those listening to today's podcast?

Tom Beck: Yeah. I heard it said one time that we teach what we know. We replicate who we are and teaching what we know is incredibly important, but being true to who we are as leaders, who God called us to be, it's such a powerful thing to see that start to be replicated in others and not, you know, me being replicated in someone I'm, I'm partnering with. But just to see them grow and to see them and to be part of that is an incredible joy.

And that's where I was saying earlier about don't be your own limiting constraint, you know, as a leader, especially as things grow and expand and the scale gets bigger. Surround yourself with people that are smarter than you in the areas that are important and have competency that you may not have. In blending that together and not being afraid of that takes it, it takes a lot to do that sometimes. But the beauty of seeing it happen and materialize in outcomes and impact is a wonderful thing to be a part of.

Jim: Teach what we know and replicate what we are. Isn't that, that's like parenting.

Tom Beck: But yeah, I don't tell my staff or my team that.

But that's the beauty of mentoring and discipleship, and that's really what you're doing with your team. That's just fantastic.

Tom Beck, what a great conversation today. Thank you so much for sharing from your heart and for sharing. About compassion international and, and really just giving us a peek into what does it mean to be a chief people and culture officer. Did I say that right?

Martha: Yeah. CPCO, I keep thinking it in my head.

Jim: So, so it's like CP 3 Oh, but CP CO.

Tom Beck: Yeah. No, I've gotten teased on that one. My title actually was longer before we re-aligned things. So could be worse.

Jim: Yeah. Well, if you had a gold suit on, I mean... But Tom Beck, thank you so much.

Tom Beck: Jim and Martha, thank you.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom.

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