8/20/25 - 2108: The Real ROI of Christian Business Networking
Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.
Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Our mission is to inspire every workplace believer to recognize their workplace as their ministry place where they work with God every day. What can that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.
Jim: It's gotten to be an issue. How do you know when a business can be trusted? How can you know who will actually do what they say they will do? For years, we had the Yellow Pages, but that was everybody who was doing a thing.
Then we established all kinds of ways to find Christians in business so we could do business with them. But was that really any better? Then the internet came upon us, and we can find people easier. But who's gonna go do the vetting? Who's gonna tell you, yes, these people are really going to serve you well?
Huh - Darrell Geis, he decided to be part of that solution. Almost 35 years ago he joined the team at Christian Blue Pages. Eventually a website was created and now an app. Think about that. He was in business before there was a website. All along Darrell has been doing the hard part, so you can just keep your life moving forward.
We're here to let Darrell tell the rest of the story. Darrell Geis, welcome to iWork4Him.
Darrel Geis: Thank you, Jim and Martha. Great to be here.
Jim: All right, and you got a friend along. I'll let you introduce Dr. Shantel Thomas, and then we're gonna come back to her in just a little bit.
Darrel Geis: Yeah, Dr. Shantel Thomas with the Sound Mind Counseling Service has been an advertiser with us for over a decade and a half. And she has just been an absolute joy to know. Godly woman. Very talented counselor. And been just a great experience and friendship with Shantel.
Jim: And we're gonna capture Shantel's story a little bit further in the interview. I wanna introduce - for those of you're out there on YouTube watching this, you'll see who's the smiling lady on the video - I'm like, okay, I didn't wanna ignore her.
Alright, Darrell, it's the first time you've been on iWork4Him. I'm sorry, okay? We've known each other for a decade. I'm sorry, Darrel. He sent me an email going, Jim, how come everybody else I know in the whole world has been on iWork4Him but me?? So I'm like, okay, we gotta get this done. (laughter)
Martha: For such a time as this.
Jim: That's right. God's timing is perfect, Darrel, and you need to trust the Lord. (laughter) That's right. All right, Darrel, tell me about this. How'd you come to be a follower of Jesus?
Darrel Geis: I was raised in a church as a young man and all my upbringing that really influenced me. I probably would've considered myself a Christian. Went off to college and got involved in a lot of different things that really led me astray from any foundation of faith that I had. Had a breakup in college of a girlfriend, sent me into a spiral, took me a while to graduate.
Finally did, moved to Cincinnati to start a career in sports broadcasting, 'cause I graduated with a television news degree, and I moved in with two guys who were recommended by my sister who was a born again believer who knew that there was a church being formed in Cincinnati and the campus ministry at UC, and these two young guys were looking for a roommate as well.
The same time I just happened to be moving to Cincinnati and moved in with them, did my own thing for about three months. Through a series of unfortunate personal circumstances, I came to know a person in Christ that led to a very transformational, spiritual relationship, obviously with Him. And I started reading the gospels, encouraged by my roommates, and came to Romans 5:8 and said that "God demonstrates his own love for us in this, that while we're still sinners, Christ died for us."
So I finally realized that I was a sinner in need of a savior and that savior was Jesus, who I knew about and actually believed in him, but didn't understand that I needed him to save me from my sins. And my good works weren't gonna get me to heaven. So anyway, all that said is that's become a now a 36 year journey of faith that, it has been amazing.
Martha: Wow. Okay. So just shortly then after that, the Christian Blue Pages was founded, 1991. So I'm doing the math 'cause we said 35 and 36 and all of that. You were there to join the team at Christian Blue Pages. Tell us about the vision at that point.
Darrel Geis: Yeah, what happened was a captain in the Air Force at Wright Pat Air Force Base in Dayton, a pastor of a church in Dayton, and a Christian business owner in Cincinnati purchased a franchise of a Christian business directory company out in Arizona. And they were all a part of a association of Churches that had campus ministries as their main outreach of the church.
And these three gentlemen decided to hire the campus ministry leaders at three of their colleges and universities. University of Cincinnati, where I was, university of Dayton, and the Ohio State University in Columbus. And so of those three people, the Columbus person, happened to be my sister, Jolene, we all got hired as the original green behind the ear sales staff for Christian Blue.
We came to find out that not every campus ministry leader's necessarily called to or gifted in advertising sales, so the idea was, is that, sell advertising during the summer months when school's out, and then make relationships with these business owners and maybe even get supported further, be released on campus full-time during the school year, similar to a campus Crusade for Christ type of situation.
But, so that was the original vision. And so I was hired, I was asked to do it and I said yes and left this idea of broadcasting behind and haven't looked back. And God has given me a ministry beyond any thing I could ever imagine in the marketplace.
Jim: You haven't thought about broadcasting all those years?
Darrel Geis: No, I have. And I was working at a TV station in Cincinnati at the time when I got hired at Christian Blue. And so I was able to experience that a little bit. And I had actually interned a couple TV stations in Columbus, Ohio. But I get to do radio and tv. I have for, all these years. And, I get to have sports as my fun thing. I don't have to make it my career. And it's allowed me to stay home and be with my family and raise two boys and homeschool them, and just enjoy a life in that way.
Jim: But if WKRP had offered you a job, would you have taken it?
(chuckling)
Darrel Geis: No, actually, when I got offered the job as sales manager after two years of working with Christian Blue, in 93, sales manager, and I got offered to radio station sales manager positions as well at the same time, two different stations. Then I just felt, I really believed in what we were doing at Christian Blue and bringing Christians together across denominational and racial lines in the marketplace in our print directory and then eventually the website, and I just said, Hey, I'm good with it and never looked back.
Jim: So you took over the company in 97, so for the last 28 years it's been your baby. How is the vision different today than it was back in 91?
Darrel Geis: I think the initial vision was twofold. It was, Hey, let's get a Christian directory here in Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, 'cause it was just one directory back then in 91. Now it's three separate directories. But the vision was twofold. It was that, form this directory where Christians can come together and support one another and obviously as a conduit for funding campus ministry.
So it's grown beyond that obviously. But at its heart is the idea of rallying the body of Christ in support of one another in business and ministry and coming together across those like I said, denominational and racial lines that too often divide us on Sunday morning. And so it's just the way we do it today is different, obviously, much broader than what we did back in 1991. But same mission. We're still on mission pretty much the same way.
Martha: So then you have three locations, right? Am I understanding that correctly? But you have an online presence, right? Tell us about that, because that's come a long way from the beginning.
Darrel Geis: Yeah, we have a print directory that serves Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky. We produce 30,000 copies, distribute those to 1100 locations, including churches and businesses and bookstores and YMCAs and banks and all that. We have a directory for Dayton- Springfield, Ohio, which is 28,000 copies, about a thousand locations. And then Columbus and Central Ohio, another 25,000 copies to about 850 locations.
So those are the three major print products. Along with that, pretty much everybody that's in the print directory also goes online. And then once you get online under your categories, whether it's accountants, dentists, plumbers, veterinarians, or zip lines, we have everything A to Z, 336 business categories that are featured on our website, then you can enhance your presence there.
And then in 2011, we launched the Christian Blue Pages mobile app. So it was the first mobile app of any Christian directory in the country. And that's been just a great experience for people to be able to have at their fingertips 24/7, 365, a way of connecting with these Christian businesses. And we do notifications once a week where we send inspiration, we send faith at work features and send contests and just digital deals and all that kinda stuff. So it's expanded beyond obviously the initial days, but print, web and mobile directory opportunity.
Jim: Wow. I love that. And I love the vision. And we're gonna talk more with Darrell Geis and his guest, Dr. Shantel Thomas in a second.
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All right, Dr. Shantel, you have been working with Christian Blue for a long time. Thanks for joining us today to give us a little bit of your story.
Shantel Thomas: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Jim: So tell us a little about your Jesus story. How did you come to be a follower of Jesus?
Shantel Thomas: So when I was a little girl, my great aunt, she would always come and pick me up and in the summers I would stay for her for about two or three weeks and we would always walk along the railroad track to church. And she had a little tambourine. She would play and we would sing all of the old traditional hymns and songs as we walked.
And I might have been, probably between the ages of five, I remember as early as five, all the way up to maybe 11, going with her for at least two or three weeks in the summer. She didn't have any children, so my mom would let me stay with her. So that was my first introduction. But then after that, I started to have dreams nightly about talking to God and walking with God when I was like a preteen or a teenager. So I told my parents I wanted to find a church home and my parents weren't really going to church on a regular basis but they did find me a church home here in Cincinnati and I went with a friend.
They would come pick me up for church every Sunday and take me home. Then when I got to college, there was a guy that I was dating and his aunt and his mom were the Sunday school teachers. I said, Hey, I need a church home. I know I'm here in college. And so when I got to that church, I really started to develop a strong relationship with Christ.
I was involved in the children's ministry and I just really felt like there was something more. I kept saying, I'm missing something. I dream all the time and I write all these dreams down and sometimes they come true. And so she started to talk to me about the different gifts and she was like, you're a dreamer, so you have visions.
And she was saying, you can write these down and interpret them. And so I thought what else is there? And they were like, have you ever been baptized? I said, no. They was like do you know what the Holy Spirit is? I said, no. And I was 19. And so I went down, I went there and I said I think I'm ready. I want everything that God's has for me. And so in that moment, she said everything? And I said everything.
And it was the Sunday school teacher who was also my boyfriend's mom. And I went down in the water and I came up and I was speaking in tongues and I was like, what is this? I don't know. And I covered my mouth and she hit my hand. Covered my mouth again. And she said, you asked for everything and you received everything in an instant. And she was like, now here's your first Bible. And so she had a Bible there that she had signed and she said, I'm your spiritual mother and I'll walk this out with you.
And she did. She walked with me my whole journey until she passed away from cancer. And so that was my introduction.
Jim: Did you marry the boy in the story?
Shantel Thomas: I did marry the boy in the story.
Jim: Okay. (laughing)
Martha: Jim, you always have to get those details right?
Jim: I wanna know.
Martha: That's awesome. So tell us about your work. What is it that God has you doing?
Shantel Thomas: So A Sound Mind Counseling Service is taken exactly from 2 Timothy 1 & 7. So "for God is not giving us the spirit of fear, but power and love and a sound mind." So I thought I was gonna name it Majestic Metamorphosis. But then again it was gonna be this beautiful butterfly changing, and I was asleep and I heard the Lord talk to me and say, that's not the name. You're going to be A Sound Mind Counseling.
And it was like the words just lifted off of the page. Like I was asleep but there was this bible. And so I went to my, at that time I was in my master's program in college, and I went to my professor and I said, I want to open a Christian counseling service. And she said to me, that's not possible. Christian and counseling don't go together. Psychology doesn't match up with biblical precepts. And she said, it's never been done. It's never been done, and you can't do it. And I said to her, watch me. I said, don't tell me what I can do. I always tell people what I can do, and as long as God is with me, it can be done.
And I graduated with my master's degree and I started my practice and from then on, God has just grown it. I went from just myself in a small one room to now I have two locations. I have four locations before COVID and with COVID, half of the therapist decided to work from home, so now we have two locations. Probably 90% are Christians, and then we have a couple people who are figuring it out and trying to decide. Either they're just like, I don't know. I've never been to church. So we get a chance to witness.
80% are people who are coming from churches that have referred us. And I really believe a lot of that has to do with the Christian Blue Pages, but I'm a Christian counselor. I take biblical precepts, I add them to my training from school, and we just come in, we pray, we talk about God freely, we talk about God's work and we use the Word of God to help us heal and live well. Healing and deliverance is what I'm all about.
Jim: Yeah. I'm glad you went away from the metamorphosis thing because somebody would've, what? What'd you say? Metaphysical Metamorphosis or what was it?
Shantel Thomas: Majestic. (chuckling)
Jim: Yeah. I think it, I think God's a lot easier. A Sound Mind makes it a lot easier for you to do that. (laughter) All right, so what first got you the attention of Christian Blue? What said, I need to do this?
Shantel Thomas: So I remember being at this festival, it was years ago. It was outdoors, and I was walking past one of the booths. And there was Darrell and he was talking to me about this Christian Blue Pages, the magazine and how you can advertise in here. And at that point it was just me and I had never thought about advertising.
And he was saying, we talk to Christians and other Christians in here, you can find other businesses and companies that have the same belief that you do. And that just struck me like, i've never heard of this. This is really different. But I really would like to support other Christian businesses and have them know I'm here so they can support me as well. So it was him. I talked directly to him at this booth, and from there our friendship started. He still comes to me directly and we still talk and pray. And I would, if I don't advertise anywhere else, I will always advertise in the Christian Blue Pages.
Jim: That was like a commercial, Darrell. That's pretty good. (laughter)
Martha: Pretty good endorsement.
Darrel Geis: Hey, Shantel's a very special person. We always pray for our clients at the end of every appointment, and every time I pray with Shantel, I'm ready to have her pray for me. And it's just such an amazing blessing. She and my wife are friends and my wife's a social worker as a LSW, and so anyway, it's just a joy every time I get a chance to meet with Shantel.
Shantel Thomas: Thank you. Thank you.
Martha: You know that's so good to hear because it goes so much more than just a transaction. And that's one of the things that I want our listeners to hear is just to be reminded that it is not just the transaction. It's so much more than that.
So are you able to know how many people you're getting from Christian Blue or what kind of impact it has had - for people like that just really wanna hear those kind of details. What can you say?
Shantel Thomas: So yeah, so how we track is we have an intake form. At the bottom of our intake form we ask, did you hear about us from Christian Blue Pages or did you hear about us from the radio or television or a friend? And people will check those boxes. And one of the reasons that I continue to advertise with the Christian Blue Pages is because we get so many people that check the box and say, yes, I heard about you through the Christian Blue Pages, and this is where we continue to decide who we will advertise with and who we will not. Christian Blue Pages always leads in the numbers, so it works. It really does work.
Jim: Darrell, I've been pounding you for a long time, like, why aren't you doing this in other states? Why? Ohio is your territory, but I'm sure over the last five or six, seven years, I've gone Darrel, when are you gonna expand this? Right now this, Ohio is your territory, right? You are you covering all of Ohio?
Darrel Geis: Yeah, we do a little bit with Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus, and then we do a little bit of digital in northeast Ohio and in Indianapolis and central Indiana. But primarily Cincinnati, Dayton, and Columbus is, which is the area that we originally started with. And we've, we've discussed that. We've had so many people inquire over the years and we just go with the lead of the Holy Spirit. And I always say, Jesus told his disciples to minister in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria, then the other ends of the earth. We're still in Jerusalem. (laughter)
We're still, there's still so many people that we feel like we need to serve better and more business categories to cover in our local areas that it just, that's what has been the direction, at least at this point in the ministry. Now we get inquiries from all over the United States and we also have a caroling ministry. Go caroling.com is the website that serves that and we get caroling group registrations from all over the US and Canada. So we are ministering in that way.
And you can be certified Christian Blue, certified as a Christian business anywhere in the country. If you're a Christian business, you can get certified with us and that includes a lot of connections through newsletters and space, listing on our website and a variety of other things, faith-based resources to help you live out your faith in your work life. So we can serve anybody in the country that's a Christian business owner.
Martha: Let me ask you, so a couple things that makes me realize why you don't have to be transactional, that you can be personal, because you actually know and care for the people not only that you are advertising with you, but that you're serving. I just heard you say, there's more layers of ways we could serve people better, and so I love that you're staying true to that. And in an area where, if you went national, it'd be much more difficult to not be transactional.
But the other side, what you just said about being certified, talk about that for a minute. Because is that part of like how we as individuals... you could do a little bit of vetting for us. Is that essentially what it is?
Darrel Geis: Yeah. So what the Christian Blue Certified is, we have three basic core requirements to be certified as a Christian business: that you profess Christ as Lord and Savior, Romans 10:9, "confess in your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raise him from the dead. You shall be saved." Be actively involved in a local Christian Church. Hebrews 10:25: "do not forsake the gathering together." And then strive to operate your business with excellence for the glory of God. " Work heartily as unto the Lord and not unto men."
So those are the three core requirements. And if the business owner operator commits to those three things, usually we do it on an appointment, in-person appointment the very first time. It's also an interview. So it's not just an advertisement appointment, it's an interview. Take a look around and we obviously do research on the businesses that come in. So anyway if they agree to those three requirements, they could be certified. And that comes with a listing under one category.
Like for example, for Shantel, it would be counseling services on the website. And then from there you get newsletters. We have a consumer newsletter that goes out to consumers and we have deals and features of Christian businesses. We have a member newsletter that goes out to businesses and prospective clients of ours that deliver faith-based resources.
Currently doing a series called The Daily Office, a video series. It'll be a five part series where it's just encouraging Christians to, before you go into your work office, to secure your daily office with the Lord, as your time with the Lord. That works out how you do a time, a place, and a plan.
So anyway, so those are resources. Then we do events like we're partnering with the Global Leadership Summit for the third straight year, fourth straight year and providing opportunities for our clients and prospective clients to come to the GLS simulcast at a discount.
We do At Work on Purpose. You might have mentioned it earlier. We'll be At Work on Purpose, XL Summit, and just a lot of other resources we provide clients. And prayer covering, a prayer ministry, and just a lot of things that brings value to be certified. And then you get our logo either the Christian Blue Pages logo, christian blue.com or christian Blue certified logo that you can put on your website link to your profile on, on our website.
And it's kinda like what people do, they put their Better Business Bureau logo on their website, link it to their profile and that type of thing. So we can certify any business anywhere in the world as Christian owned and operated through our certified process.
Jim: So Darrel, if there's somebody listening today from a different part of the country and they're like I really wanna do this in my state, would you ever consider that conversation?
Darrel Geis: Yeah, we have those conversations pretty regularly. And we have a process of how to, explore the idea. There's so many ways for businesses to advertise. It's a very difficult thing. You think every Christian business would wanna be certified and then wanna take advantage of their certification by advertising further with us, right? But it's just not that way because maybe they have a very limited advertising budget or maybe they advertised heavily in digital and they pigeonhole us in because we're Christian Blue Pages.
They pigeonhole us in it as an old Yellow Pages type of thing. And our format is similar, at least the print directory is similar to the Yellow Pages, but it's always the choice of the consumer to go pick up a directory because it's a faith-based targeted niche product that people have been using for over three decades.
So anyway, all that said, is there's lots of reasons why they don't. But yeah, we would always communicate with people, you know, ways that we could potentially explore expanding in other territories. But it just hasn't happened.
Jim: Sure. Dr. Shantel, what's been the biggest surprise for you? Biggest God surprise, as part of this whole Christian Blue journey?
Shantel Thomas: So I guess when I started out, I wasn't sure. I thought let's try this and see, but just the number of people that continued to tell me that they found me in the Christian Blue Pages, just the way it has helped to grow my business, I have to say that it's the only advertising that I've started with and I've been consistently with because the numbers show that it works.
And I was telling Darrel that when we met, he's like, how do you track it? How do you know? And I'm like, we do the little tally at the end and every month we have calls and some people call and say, they will say, I found you in the Christian Blue Pages. Or they'll say, I'm calling because I need a sound mine. And I really believe that, God just - when my professor said to me this won't work, I had some doubts, some fear, but then it's like God sent the help, right? The Christian Blue Pages, the churches, they make sure that we stay in business. It's all God and it's all Christian based and it's all the supportive christian community.
Jim: So have you ever gone back, sought out that professor to have a conversation with her?
Shantel Thomas: You know what, actually I did not have to. She called me after 10 years in business. She called me and she said, I have to apologize to you. And this was phenomenal for me. It just really was warmed my heart. She said, we have been tracking you here at the university and we use your business to show how counseling and Christianity can partner together and be successful. We actually use it in our master's program when we work with students now.
And I was like, what? And she said, yeah, you're one of our biggest success stories. She said, I'm so sorry that I didn't believe in you, but I'm so happy that you continued on your journey and you went ahead and opened your business as a Christian practice.
Jim: Wow. Now that's the God story. That's the one right there. That's amazing, 'cause partnering with Darrel and partnering with God and getting your degree. Obviously he didn't just stop at your master's degree, went on and got your doctorate. Whew, sure glad it was you and not me. Dr. Shantel Thomas and Darrel Geis , thank you both for being on here today, sharing a little bit of this story, sharing the excitement of what God's doing there all over Ohio. Thank you both for being with us.
Darrel Geis: Thank you so much. God bless you and your ministry as well.
Shantel Thomas: Yes, God bless you. Thank you.
Jim: Before we close today, we really wanna draw attention to the US Christian Chamber of Commerce.
Martha: Yeah. Our work can be very lonely sometimes and we know even when it's directed by God, we need people around us on this journey. And there is a community waiting to embrace you and challenge you to keep your kingdom perspective like we've been talking about.
The US Christian Chamber of Commerce unites Christian business leaders to build with excellence, lead with integrity and advance God's kingdom in the marketplace. And in 2026, we will gather together in Orlando, Florida, to take this even further. Visit swc2026.com and use code iWork4Him to save on your registration. Jim and I will emcee this event and look forward to seeing you there!
Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.