7/9/25 - 2102: Hearing God from 9 to 5

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the Voice of Collaboration for the Faith and Work Movement.

Martha: And we are your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And our mission is to inspire every workplace believer to recognize that their workplace is their ministry place where they work with God every day. What can that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: Jesus said, my sheep know my voice. Imagine a world where every follower of Jesus understood that they could talk with God, ask questions, get answers about the little things and big things. Andy and Janine Mason nailed the simplicity of hearing from God in their latest book, Listen Up! Hearing God at Work. This book is a battle changer in this country and around the world, enabling Jesus followers to once again walk and talk and fellowship with our father, just as Adam and Eve once did in the garden. So good and so relevant. I just reread it again for the second time. It's so practical.

Andy and Janine have been living this out in their lives and they're here to talk with us today about hearing from God and the latest in their biznistry that they call Heaven in Business. Andy and Janine, welcome to iWork4Him.

Andy Mason: Thank you, Jim.

Jim: What I love about your story is that you guys not only wrote the book, but you've been living it out the last several years. And so before I get to the questions, what I really wanna ask is - God moved you from New Zealand to Redding, California, to just outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to Nashville, Tennessee. That's the biggest zigzag across the planet. Did you hear God through all of those moves?

Janine Mason: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it looks like we are just wandering and been floating along, but actually, yeah, each move we very clearly heard from the Lord, and so we moved in response to hearing his voice. That's the only way we know to live, is to respond to hearing the voice of the Lord.

Andy Mason: And I was just thinking, yeah, it seems crazy. It is crazy. It is crazy following the voice of God. But then Jesus was what? Nazareth, Egypt, back, like he was all over the place too. So I guess, yeah that's who we're following.

Martha: Yes. Oh, for sure. And I really think that our listeners are gonna hear and understand more of that by the end of this podcast of what that really looks like to listen and to hear. One of the things that. We appreciate about you guys is you do this together, much like we do, and we know that ministry leaders often put their marriage at risk for the sake of the mission. How have you guys made sure that your marriage has stayed healthy while you work together in a very specific focus?

Andy Mason: Yeah, I think the first thing, context - so just so listeners know, we've been married for 26 years. I married my best friend and she's still my best friend. We've got four kids and they are now 18, 21, 22, 24. First one's actually getting married in September, so that's pretty cool. So just a little bit of context.

So how have we done this together? There's different seasons of that. There's the season when the kids were really little and Janine was primarily a full on mom, teacher, guide, and everything. And then when they grow, it's like she's still full on mom, taxi, driver, cook, chef, everything in between.

And we would do that and do that in relationship. And we're in a new season now with all four kids out of the home. So just that's the context. And then how do we do, how have we done this together and not destroyed each other in the process?

Janine Mason: I can remember sitting on your parents' backs doorstep, actually, when we were engaged and saying, just so you know, I'm gonna fight for our family. We weren't even married, but I had seen people destroy their families and their marriage through ministry. And I said, just so you know, Andy Mason, when we are married, I'll be fighting for us to stay connected. I'll be fighting for our kids not to be casualties of ministry.

And so I think all the way along, we have fought to set boundaries that meant our marriage stayed healthy. That looked like when Andy was traveling and I was home with the kids managing how much he was traveling, even though we could have made more money if he'd traveled more. It was like, no, actually we need to keep our marriage and our family at the heart of what we are doing because that's honoring the Lord.

And then I think we just prioritize having fun. I will be the one that says, if Andy starts talking business in the bedroom, I'll be like excuse me, but this is my bedroom and I won't be talking business here that belongs at a different conversation. We can go and we can sit at the table a weekend, but after a certain time of night or a certain time in the morning, I'm like, no, that doesn't actually, we have to separate that out. Otherwise we'll always be talking business and then we end up not having as much fun. But we prioritize fun. We play a lot of board games. I like beating him. (laughter)

Jim: So Janine, though, we've talked with a lot of couples on mission who have gone to other places and where the culture is so radically challenging to every part of life, and yet the role of a mother hasn't changed. The role of a wife hasn't changed. Yet the culture makes it so much different. You guys moved from New Zealand where you knew, that was comfortable. It was peaceful. It's middle earth. Everybody knows what New Zealand looks like if they watch Lord of the Rings, it's just gorgeous. And you moved to Redding, California, which I don't know how radical that culture change was, but equally a beautiful area of the world.

But California, I mean it, it doesn't get more radically different than California. How did you guys manage that cultural shift and the pressure from that cultural shift to make sure it didn't impact your marriage? 'cause your kids were struggling with it. How old were, because your kids? They were in elementary and junior high school when you moved?

Janine Mason: Yeah, two through eight when we moved here. They were just itty bitty when we moved to California.

Jim: So it wasn't as hard them as it was on you.

Janine Mason: It was intense. I can remember just everything is different, like even the little things that you don't think about. I can remember going to the supermarket and our kids, it's 110 degrees and he is driving around the parking lot with the four little kids and I'm trying to find something for dinner and all I want was, okay, I've got salad and greens.

I just want a piece of meat to cook. And I'm looking at the meat department and everything is called something different than it is at New Zealand. And I just didn't know. And I remember getting back in the van crying this is so hard. And so everything was different. Everything was different, even though we speak the same language.

But I think again, it was the commitment to one another, the commitment to, we know that the Lord has brought us here, therefore there's a way through even when it's difficult and just being gracious to one another. And I can remember saying to somebody, this is a beautiful thing because in New Zealand I didn't really need God for my everyday life but when you move and everything is so incredibly difficult, it forces you into this position of I will need, I have to spend time with the Lord every day, connecting with his presence, hearing his voice. Or I will curl up in the closet and just want to cry all day.

Martha: Sure.

Janine Mason: It's that difficult. And although that's challenging, and I think people do lose their marriage in those places because they lean out rather than leaning in, and so I think we leaned in both to the Lord and to one another. Like it's better to cry in one another's arms and say, this is so hard than to get angry and walk away from each other. So I think it, it has made us lean in, yeah.

Martha: So I know that hindsight is 2020 and looking back it might be easier to say, I can see why God moved us. I can see. But in the moment, did you know why God had moved you and what he had planned for you?

Andy Mason: No, not at all. There was some profound - come back a step. It was so clear that God spoke. We had scripture that you just can't, when it's black and white, you just can't argue. Three different scriptures across the Bible and be like, oh, it's so obvious. Like even someone that doesn't know God would read that and it's wow, God's telling you to do something.

So we knew we had a mandate to be there, but we didn't know why or what. And what did that look like? I even had a dream. And in a dream I saw a picture of something that looked like an old sawmill broken down. So when we get to reading, we find out that there's a - and I've got economic development background, business. The industry had a forestry paper mill industry that was broken down.

So i'm just, are we here to do something with the paper milling industry? I know nothing about... it was like, even though, what are we doing here? That's what I'm saying. And we didn't know what, and I think that's what, this is this journey with God. He wants to do it with you. That's the most important thing. Like I work with you.

Janine Mason: I think we were in that place for the first year for sure. Where we are, just like, we're here. We don't know. Yeah, we knew we were supposed to stay, but we didn't know why. But then you had a meeting with Danny Silk and that opened up possibilities that we hadn't seen before. And I think at that point we went oh my gosh. And I think the other piece that happened in that first year was one of our kids in particular was having a hard time adjusting, our little 6-year-old at the time.

And we were praying and I felt like the Lord said, you think this is all about you, but this is as much about your kids as it is about you. And they're not here being dragged along just for the journey because of the calling on your life, but this is the calling on their life. And so I think right from the start, that was in the first weeks of us being there and I think it helped me realize we can think it's all about the adults, but actually they got steeped in a culture of kingdom that has set them up for success.

And I think it's as much about them as it was about us, that they got birthed into a culture that shaped them very strongly.

Martha: That is so huge. And I hope our listeners are really listening to that. Listen up! Because the fact that so many times we make decisions about our vocation or our next steps and to just say the kids will be fine, we'll be family wherever we are.

But realizing that it's more than that. It's who you're exposing them to, the culture that you're exposing them to, and how you help them to navigate that. And like you just said, the kingdom culture that they were immersed in there in Redding. So we've done a show before talking about Heaven in Business. We'll put a link to that in the show notes for listeners to go back to. But why don't you just quickly tell us what God really birthed out of your experience of the move to California.

Andy Mason: Yeah, so we knew that we were sent to Redding. We knew that we were sent to sit under this guy, Bill Johnson. We've heard of him before. So we knew a couple of things. If people are not aware, there's a book When Heaven Invades Earth, we just think the Lord's Prayer: on Earth as it is in heaven, as in God wants to be with you in all of life. Bring everything to life, causing human flourishing, planet flourishing, all things brought to life.

So that was the concept, but we didn't know what that even looked like in practical. At the time, the expression looked like run after sick people and pray for the healing. And so you could just imagine a bunch of zealous students running around after sick people, which is not necessarily healthy for the business community because that scares off patrons. So what we didn't know is that the reputation of the church in the city was only animosity. So again, nobody, we didn't know that. I didn't know. We're new to the area. We don't fully speak the language. It's Northern California.

And so what that looked like for us twofold was one, just this what have I got? I mean I can pray for sick people, but what about the economic engine of the city? These just these questions on the inside of you. What about the business community? What are we doing? And so we just started to ask questions and they didn't have answers.

They said, can you go and do this? So I got connected to a local business. We go in there and we just start to really encourage them. It's what you guys are doing. It's really that simple. We started to do that and then secondly, started to meet with some local business people and say, what does it look like to partner with God at work, practically? How do you know? What are the stories?

So those two things, and so we didn't even know we were starting what we now call Heaven in Business. We were just literally meeting with people saying, how can we help? There's gotta be a need and it's gotta be, there's gotta be an expression of the kingdom way more than a meeting and way more than a prayer. So what does it look like?

And secondly, that meeting with Danny Silk, he's the family life pastor. I'm not, like I love family and I have a priority of family and the word of God around don't put your family on the altar of whatever, so that's really important. But I'm thinking, why on earth would I meet with Danny Silk? 'Cause he's the social worker, counseling, maybe I need to learn counseling?

Janine Mason: Yeah, and you asked me that and I was like no, not true. This is not what God is saying. (laughter)

Andy Mason: And so we meet with Danny, not sure why, and he says what's your background? And he was just as perplexed about meeting, as well. So we meet, what's your background? I said helping people discover purpose and resource them to live it well, whether that's a bank manager, a business consultant, a worship leader, church leader, in missions, whatever it is, it's the same kind of thing. What's your dream? How can we help you live that?

And he goes, really? Have you read the book, Dream Manager by Matthew Kelly? We've been praying about somebody that would come in and do this for our staff, 500 staff, Jim, with zero leadership development. So that just tells you what was going on. It's a miracle environment. And so he said you'd be an answer to prayer. When can you start? Can you do what you were doing with your clients back in New Zealand, but do that with our staff?

And so those two things, which became the book Dream Culture, Bringing Dreams to Life and God with You at Work, has grown into what we do today. But we were not geniuses. We were just simply following the voice of God and then seeing why is no one doing this, right? Someone should be doing this, especially in a church. You should be doing this.

Jim: Imagine that at a church. No culture of leadership. No mentor, no discipleship, mentoring of leaders in a church. (sighs) Step down off the soapbox. All right, all right, so we're gonna get back to this conversation 'cause I really wanna talk more about Heaven in Business, but before we do, I just wanna - Martha and I have been blessed by being aligned with so many amazing people and organizations throughout our work of iWork4Him over the last 12 plus years.

One such organization is the US Christian Chamber of Commerce. Martha and I believe so much in the work of the US Christian Chamber of Commerce that we sit on its board of directors, and the US Christian Chamber of Commerce believes business isn't just business. This is kingdom calling and its founder, it's her sport. Krystal Parker, it's her sport.

The US Christian Chamber is uniting Christian business leaders across the country to teach to lead with excellence, to lead with integrity, and advance God's kingdom in the marketplace. Are you in? I bet you will be. US christian chamber.com. Check out their spiritual world expo. That's gonna happen in 2026, in April of 2026. And when you get out there, if you decide to attend, make sure you put in the code, iWork4Him, and you'll get a special discount.

Martha: Yes, and I'll put all that in the show notes for everybody. You do not have to remember all of that, but we will be participating greatly in SWC 2026 and would love for you to join us.

Jim: All right, your latest book, Andy and Janine, is Listen Up! Hearing God at Work. I know it's really tough on YouTube. We got the picture out there, but of course you can find on that, on Amazon. And yeah, there you go. But I think what's so great about this book is I just finished rereading it for this, reading it for the second time, is that this is something that a lot of believers really struggle with is how to hear the voice of God and how to walk in obedience to what you hear. Not only to hear, but then to listen and then be obedient.

That's something God's been working on me for, I don't know. 30 years. Why is it so important? Why did you guys write this book? Why is it so important that every believer understand this?

Janine Mason: I think it's if you can't hear the voice of God, if you don't know that you hear the voice of God, how do you respond to him?

So if we say we have a relationship with the Lord, then it has to be communication. And when we say hear, I just wanna say, hearing implies that it's only with my ears on the, internal ears. And there's so many different ways that we do hear from the Lord. So one of those ways that I like to tell people when they say, oh, I don't hear from God, I say, have you ever just felt like, man, I should just text my friend today? And you text them and you say, Hey, how you going? I love you. Just wanted to encourage you today and your friend texts back. Thank you so much. I just needed to hear that sweet message today.

Nearly everybody's had that experience where I just happened to think of my friend on that day and just happened to text them and then to find out that was the day, that was the moment that was so meaningful. In fact, that happened to me and my friend was feeling really down and three people from different parts of the country all text within about 15 minutes of each other. That's the voice of the Lord.

Jim: Amen.

Janine Mason: That's the voice of the Lord. So it's not always this big oh, I heard the voice of the Lord echoing from heaven. A lot of times it's just this sweet knowing or it's just this sweet prompting, although, or sometimes you'll just be meditating on the Lord and you'll get a picture in your mind.

So there's so many different ways when we realize that we can hear. It changes everything because now I can respond. It's very difficult for me to respond to Andy in relationship, grow and intimacy, or grow in just instruction, if I can't hear him. I need some way of actually communicating.

Andy Mason: Yeah, and I always say that the people say, why do we do what we do? 'Cause work is the primary place you forge your friendship with God. And how can you forge a friendship with anybody if you can't hear their voice? And this is not in the book, but just this is a, in the last couple of weeks I've just been meditating on, it's actually in Deuteronomy and it's the phrase, it's a shemar, is the word, A "hear, oh, Israel, The Lord, the Lord your God, he is one." And then " love the Lord your God with all your..." Jesus referred to that, right? That word here, Shemar, is the same word: hear, listen, and obey.

Janine Mason: Wow.

Andy Mason: There's no difference. So in the Hebrew, there is no difference between hearing and obeying. So James says, show me your faith. It's the same. If you're not acting on what you've heard, you haven't heard.

Martha: That's such a interesting thing 'cause I think of, as a mom, when I say, did you hear me? That meant I am expecting you to obey it. 'Cause I'm like, if you heard me, certainly you're going to follow through on whatever it was I just instructed you to do.

But in most of life we don't look at it that way. I know we sat under a pastor for years who said he who has ears let him hear, when he would be preaching the word. It was like you really need to have the ears of hearing, not just listen, like being there. And it always caused us to pay attention because if I have the ears that will hear what God is truly saying to me to today.

So in your book, you really say it's a process, right? Is that biblical to have a process for hearing from God?

Andy Mason: Janine hates the word process. (laughter)

Martha: Okay. Okay. So tell me.

Andy Mason: It's a relationship.

Janine Mason: No, but because I think, I think as humans we are wired to want process. If I do A plus D, then I will get this result. And although there are keys in there to hearing the voice of the Lord, it's not always A plus B plus C because sometimes God crashes in when I'm doing the dishes and gives me a thought that changes everything. And sometimes I have to pause and intentionally lean in to remember that the presence of God is with me.

And yes, there are keys to hearing, absolutely. But I just think we want the, we want in Christian life, like somebody tell me A plus B plus C, so I can be successful. And it's not like that. Just as my relationship with Andy is totally different than your guys' relationship, there are keys that we would have in common if we sat and talked about that, but there's not a definite " you have to do it this way" because we're all different.

And he relates to us all differently. So that's where Andy says, you hate the word process. No, I hate the fact that people try and put things in a box. And it restricts people and then people go if I have to do it that way, I can't relate to that. I hear the Lord best when I'm walking, honestly. And other people hear the voice of the Lord best when they're sitting in a crowded coffee shop and there's all sorts of things happening.

Jim: Yeah. I hear the Lord best when I'm reading, like just reading anything, I hear God's voice.

Okay. But when I said, put into question process, what you guys do is lay out, here's how it has worked for us, and here are many common things. First of all, it requires being quiet at times, just learning to abide with God. It's surrounding yourself with trusted advisors to be able to say, did I hear this from God? This is what I heard. Let me bounce this back. Does it, is it in line with scripture? Of course you need to know scripture to make sure it aligns with scripture.

That's the process, really, it's just a shaping of our heart. I recommend that everybody listening, if you're a believer, you need to learn to listen to the voice of God in work and outside of work. Get this book, read it. It's just a beautiful process. Or excuse me, a beautiful, I didn't mean to say that word. (chucking)It's a beautiful book on... it keeps the simplicity. It's just, it says the simplicity of it all. But Andy, you just said something that perked my ears and I'm, we're gonna end, we're gonna land on this. You said work is your primary place you forge your friendship with God.

Martha: Yeah, I wrote that down too. I was like, what? Wait a second.

Jim: Wait a second. Missed that sermon. Yeah, I missed that one. Tell me where are you coming up with that?

Andy Mason: Yeah, okay. You two are married. You've been married for 39 years. Woo. Okay. When did your marriage grow?

Martha: Yes. All along.

Jim: We started learning to be, we've been be best friends since we were 16, a long time.

Andy Mason: Yeah. So the day that you got married was not when your marriage got forged. What I propose to you is actually your marriage really gets forged in the, when you disagree when it's difficult, when suddenly kids show up and you don't sleep. It's in the day-to-day ups and downs, when there's any kind of pressure, either pressure from victory or pressure from difficulty. And so I can sit at church on Sunday morning and stand and worship and have a wonderful time and hear and listen and be encouraged and have someone pray for me and all of that, and it's wonderful.

But the reality of my walk with Jesus happens on Monday when I've got bills to pay, when I've gotta develop a new strategy and I dunno how. That's when I get to choose to lean in with a tender heart and listen. And that's why in the start of that book, it's got that song, There is no one like our God that would stoop down and hear our hearts cry.

That's ridiculous. But yeah, so when I say work is the primary place you forge your friendship with God is because one, you spend so much time there, that's really practical. But two, because work is not easy, it's not comfortable. There's challenge, there's difficulty, there's adversity, there's confusion, and that's perfect. Then I get to lean in and God's let me know "when you wanna have a conversation about that." "Nope, I do it myself." " I've been doing this for a few thousand years. I could probably help you with that if you want, if you're willing to listen." And that's this, this mind blowing that God would want that, would stoop down and hear our hearts cry.

That's profound, which brings back to, what is success? It's not accomplishing something. I think one of your questions was, why leave? Was it 'cause God wanted things to accomplish? I think it's possibly more about our kids and more about a relationship with God. Yes, it's in the context of going after things and putting a dent in the universe. But if it was really about accomplishing something, God would probably do that without you because you make it so difficult. Or I do, anyway. (laughter)

Jim: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Martha: And I think just so many of our listeners can relate to that and realize all of this conversation about relationship with our Heavenly Father and being able to relate it to marriage is just one way where we can look at it and say, you know what? Every marriage is different. Every relationship is different, and yet there are elements. We have to listen to each other if we really want to know each other. And I think that there's just so many key takeaways from that.

But I will tell you that God has wired me to like processes. And so I, even though I understand that there are key elements to all of that, I understand that there are certain processes that I like to go in my through in my life to help me with doing things properly. And one of those is choosing the right businesses to work with. And Jim and I have been vetting companies for the past 12 years on iWork4Him to make sure that they're truly living up to their written values and that they align with Scripture, and Patriot mobile is a sure fit in that area online at patriotmobile.com/iWork4Him. You will find their values written out, their offerings to be clear, their customer service to be excellent and US-based. Without compromising your coverage, you can have your cell phone service on your choice of the three major carrier towers.

But support values you believe in. So go to the link today and learn more. The process is quick and easy and gives back to this ministry that you love so much.

Jim: All right, we're out of time, but I wanna make sure you guys get the last word. We're gonna make sure people check out Heaven in Business.com. We're gonna make sure that people know all about your book in all of the show notes. But the two of you speak wisdom into people all the time. Do you have words of encouragement for our listeners today who are workplace believers trying to figure out what does God, why does God have them right where they are today?

Janine Mason: You can go first.

Andy Mason: So this is, we do a blog, podcast as well. This is gonna be this week, pretty much. Actually this week and last week just, people that hear God and say, I wanna honor God in what I'm doing, and hear God say, you're precious. You're chosen, I've called you by name. You're gonna be my witness to the ends of the earth, disciple nations.

That's like clouds and woo. And that's the graduation moment. I'm in, yeah, let's go. And then work happens and there's delay and confusion and difficulty, and you think, did you hear God? So if you're listening to that right now, just know that. This is Isaiah 43. It's actually, you're perfectly where you are supposed to be.

And it says that you're chosen, you're adopted, you're precious, you're loved, you're called by name. You're gonna be his witness. That's your purpose, disciple nations. He'll move things around. He'll create rivers in the wilderness. All of these things we are thinking, yeah, yeah. And we forget.

And when you walk through rivers and deep waters and fire and flame, as in you are going to, it's gonna be, but you're not gonna get burned. You're not gonna drown. And you're gonna get through this 'cause he's with you in the middle of it. And so that's what I would say is if you're questioning and doubting God, am I missing something? Probably not.

He will actually, if you are even asking that question, it tells me that your heart is leaning in to listen. So he will tell you if you need to get out of it, but just know because you've got adversity, difficulty, challenge, you're trying to work stuff out. It's actually not that you're wrong or that you're dead. It's actually probably because God's incubating something in and through you, and he does it through pressure and challenge and adversity to prove himself, which is Proverbs 30:5, every word of the Lord is tested, refined, and proven to be pure. So he is actually not proving you, he's proving himself in you. So relax and go and have some candy in the process.

Jim: What was the verse in Proverbs? 'cause all I heard was Proverbs 35 and I'm like, that must be an extra chapter I didn't have it in my Bible.

Andy Mason: Yeah. Proverbs 30 verse five.

Jim: Yeah, there you go. 30 verse five. Got it. Okay. The New Zealand with the Nashville accent. Janine, final word from you.

Janine Mason: Yeah, I think my, one of my life scriptures has been first Peter 1:3, I believe it is, where it says, he has given us everything pertaining to life and godliness. And I think I'm echoing what Andy's saying.

When you think it's tough, when you think, oh man, what am I doing here? Remembering that he has already given you everything you need to lead a godly life in your workplace, in the middle of kids, in the middle of crazy moving, in the middle of all the stuff that we've walked through, we've found that to be true, that he has already given us what we need to display his goodness, to display who he is everywhere we go.

The other thing I would add just to what Andy's saying is you can't find God as comforter unless you need comfort. You can't find God as provider unless you actually need provision. And so we wanna find God as those things, but we don't wanna be in the place of lack and needing, and we don't wanna need comfort. We don't wanna be in the place of pain. We don't wanna be in the place of lack. But actually you find the beauty of who he is when you're in that place of needing that.

And so I would say listeners, hey he's there and he's wanting to be comfort. He's wanting to be provision. He's wanting to be all that he is. He's wanting to show himself faithful. And sometimes that takes being in the place of, it's crazy, I don't know what to do. And when you turn and when you listen, you'll find what you need from his voice, the things that you need from his voice.

Jim: Good words. Amen. Andy and Janine Mason, thanks so much for being an iWork4Him today, for sharing pieces of your lives, your book, Listen Up! Hearing God at Work, and also Heaven in Business online at heaveninbusiness.com.

We appreciate you guys. We look forward to seeing you face to face again one day. But thanks for being with us today.

Andy Mason: Thank you, Jim. Thanks, Martha.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.