6/24/22 - Run Toward Your Goliaths: Dr. Eli Jones

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the mouthpiece for the faith and work movement. We're your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: We're excited for you to be with us today, listeners and I just wanted to, you know, give a kind of a shout out. Maybe your planning on doing this later, Jim. What the book we're gonna talk about today is published by the same or by the same publisher as our three books, iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him.

And so I'm very excited about that. Shout out to Highbridge books and just grateful for a place where books are being published that are really speaking into this connection of faith and work. And I just wanted to make sure I highlight that and remind you, you can go to our bookstore at iworkforhim.com bookstore to check out our three books.

Jim: Rarely do I read a book where I'm so captivated by the stories within - today is one of those exceptions. Eli Jones just released his well, I should call him doctor Eli Jones because when you get one, you need to be called doctor at least once on a show. Eli Jones just released his latest book Run Towards Your Goliath.

This is his story. Well, really the story of his life put in perfect perspective of the years gone by and the lessons learned from incredible people. The incredible people, God put in his path and from the opportunities God allowed him to experience. It isn't a story within that, that lacks hurt and pain.

There's a little bit of misery and fear thrown in there as well. Eli grew up in the deep south with a mom and dad who loved him and together they had to grow up facing their giants, but through it all, Eli had to learn to run towards the goliath in his life, including being the first in his family ever to get a college degree and eventually a PhD.

 Eli and his wife Fern have such a colorful story. I wish we could cover it all, but we're limited on time, but his workplace path took him to the hallowed halls of Texas A&M where football reigns, and God allowed him to be a major influencer for Christ. Eli Jones, welcome to iWork4Him.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, thank you both Jim and Martha, I was looking forward to this and I'm so glad we had this opportunity to talk.

Jim: So Eli, let's just start off with talking about where did you grow up?

Dr. Eli Jones: I was born in Houston, Texas my wife and I both. And I spent much of my teenage years in a very small town population of about 500.

Jim: Wow. That is small.

Dr. Eli Jones: From, for a big Metro area, Houston, Texas, to a small, small community. As a teenager, my dad had a sixth grade education born in Louisiana served our country, picked up a trade and then started a dry cleaners when he, when he left the military and I had a chance to grow up around this incredible entrepreneur who was just gifted with the talents to start a business, run a business successfully and sell those business.

So he at a very early age, retired retired at 52 the first time and bought a 200 acre farm. And he moved us. My, my brother and I my brother and me to Summerville, Texas, which is a very small town comparatively.

Martha: So let's talk about that just a little bit more, how your dad had incredible influence over your life as a hardworking entrepreneur.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So, you know, I I'm blessed because I had an opportunity to, to see a role model mm-hmm , you know, in terms of taking certain calculated risks. And so you're thinking about being an entrepreneur for those people who are entrepreneurs, you know, firsthand what it's like to step out on your own to step out on faith.

And he certainly did. I mean, if you looked at his pedigree, he had a lot of strikes against him, but he was very determined and very faithful. To move forward. So I had a chance to grow up around that, and that has impacted me in, in very big ways. So I am you know, I'm not risk averse, you know, I've had a chance to see what can happen when you start and finish three different businesses.

And so I, I actually used what I learned from him in all of my career. So I was in sales at one time. You know, it takes a level of risk taking to be successful in sales. Yeah. Right. And in many cases it is sort of like running your own business. You're building your own accounts. You're building that trust.

In some cases, if you're paid straight commission you're in your own business, it takes no question about it. Right. So I, you know, I stepped into that role and then later I decided to come back and I moved into academia because I loved to write and I loved to teach. And that was just perfect for me to, to think about this career, but that took some risks.

So when I left my career corporate career and sales and sales management gave up the big corporate salary to come back and be a graduate student, again, that also took some risks.

Jim: Well, and we're gonna talk, we're gonna talk about that. I don't want you to jump too far ahead, cuz I wanna go back to your dad's determination, this his, his ability to get things done even when things seemed impossible. And I'm gonna jump ahead to a question I told you, I'd ask, you know, that story where your, your dad was running the dry cleaners and he found was able to buy or get a really cheap, a piece of equipment that he wanted a pressing machine for the dry cleaner. But he didn't have a trailer or a trailer hitch, but he had a piece.

Well, why don't you tell the story? Yeah. How did he get that pressing machine all the way across Houston from north Houston to south Houston?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So we had to take the, you know, it was interesting. So I was probably 10 years old at this time. And what I remember and you could see the picture of, it's not the exact truck, but it's a replica of that truck that I rode in.

And that was my classroom. Riding with my dad, as he, you know, worked around the city, that was really my classroom. Also watching him at his spotting board as he was getting stains out of people's clothes. That was all part of the classroom experience to me. And my dad was a man of few words. So he wasn't really talk a lot, but I had a chance to observe how he did things.

So I had to an opportunity to observe him negotiating with a, you know, a guy who owned his cleaning business, who was going out of business. And my dad decided, well, you know, I wanna work out a deal and buy a piece of equipment from you. So we had to pull some of the parts, you know, apart we put some pieces in the truck, but what was amazing to me was my dad didn't let any circumstance stop him.

He was very resourceful and that's what you're picking up in the book. Very, very resourceful. So he actually found a, a, you know, a pretty thick piece of plywood. And he tied it to the back of his truck and we moved parts of that pressive machine across the city of Houston. Now I had a, someone who actually read drafts of my chapters that now let's see, Houston probably had a different zoning issue right, about that. So you couldn't pull that off today.

But you could back in the, yeah. Back in the early seventies late sixties, he was able to pull that off and we got the press machine back to his cleaner. And put it back to far, you know, put it back together, I should say. And he used it for many, many years. So I had a chance to watch him negotiate and be that resourceful.

Martha: You know, I love that. I love that. You said that riding around with your dad was your classroom, because I think a lot of people, we forget how many people are watching us and they're learning from our leadership or our determination, like your dad without really a bunch of words that taught in the process. So, so, you know, one of the, that I know that that just impressed Jim so much because it just, there's so many lessons there.

Jim: I've heard the sound of plywood being dragged along on a blacktop road. It's an terrible sound and you, it is. Oh yeah. And you're talking, you did that for 30 or 40 miles!

Dr. Eli Jones: I still hear that sound. and it was well over 50 years ago.

Jim: When I was reading in the book, I was hearing the sound.

Martha: And like you said, Jim, when you did the introduction, you know, the, your book run towards your your Goliaths is filled with stories that help people to really get a capture of what's going on. So let's just talk real quick how you got your degree at Texas A&M because I'm guessing from your vantage point at that, it might have felt like that would've been a near impossible goal.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, it was. So, you know, I'm a first generation, that in itself is a Goliath. To me, it's a giant for many. You know, and I the good news is I'm in the academic environment and I'm around, you know, a lot of first gens. In fact, 25% of our enrollment is first gen. And I love talking to first gens because I get it. You know, if you're the first in your family to go to college, you know, many times your loving family, they really don't know how to help you, your family members, right.

There's not an experience that they can relate. Right. And so I was real fortunate because I was able to start at a big university and navigate the campus and just kept going. I, you know, I had, I have a chance to talk to undergraduate students and graduate students now. And many times when you think about it, students come in and they want to declare a major very, very early on.

In fact, society today is really pushing students to declare early. What is it you're gonna major in. You know, I take a different point of view on this and I, you know, I, I have four adult children and and I tell parents now, you know, I think it's good for, for students to explore. I mean, this is the one opportunity in a lifetime where students can just take it a good sampling of what they could be doing.

And that was my, because of my entrepreneurial background, I, you know, my mom was our bookkeeper, right. And so I thought this is a funny story because I ended up being the Dean of the very business school I graduated from. And and so, you know, in our business school, we have accounting, finance information, systems, management, and marketing.

Those are our key disciplines. Well, because of my background, watching my mom, when I thought about going into business, the only thing I could relate to was accounting. Because I saw my mom doing bookkeeping work. Right. And so later on, I I told the department head of our accounting department. I was an accounting major for one solid half of a semester.

Martha: One solid half, either in or you're out.

Dr. Eli Jones: You, you know that I decided that wasn't for me, but at least I had a chance to explore. And that's why I think it's important for parents to give a little latitude to their students, to their kids, to let them explore a little bit. So I now have a grandson who's here at A&M.

And yeah, he's 18 turning 19 in August. And so I have a chance to tell him about my experience here in navigating the big campus and go and explore. Don't decide just yet because this is a major opportunity to really find your calling while you're here on this campus.

Jim: Yeah. And tell him, accounting is for very few people. We need those people. Okay. Alright. Let's close out this segment by talking about your mom. Yeah, she was a huge encouragement to you. Talk about her.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh yeah. So my mom, I always called her my greatest cheerleader. Mm-hmm so you know, you read in the book and, and I have a chance to tell you this.

So I, I remember speaking of trying to find my way during that time, I remember talking to mom about different things. Well, I'm dropping out of accounting and thinking about going over here and now I really love radio. So I might want to do journalism. I went through all of it. And I remember my mom saying to me, and I'll never forget this.

It was the way she said it, and I'm not gonna be able to do it any justice. But what it was was she said, you know, baby, you could be a clown. I just want you to be the best clown. Mm. That, you know, that is funny. Now, when I talk about it, in fact I had a chance to eulogize my mom years later. So she passed in 2015.

And and I remember saying this to the folks in the audience. I, I collected information from each of my siblings, the four of us. And I asked them, I said, tell me about the biggest impact mom made on you. And so I was able to share with the audience, what my sibling said, and then I got to my part and that what I just shared with you is what I, I.

And I talked about how the pressure was off of me when she said it mm-hmm it was baby. Do what you feel called to do. All right. Don't put any extra pressure on me. All right. Just be the best at it. Whatever that calling is, be the best at it. Later, my son, who was sitting in the audience, he came back and he said, dad, I heard you about the clown. So when you pass, I'm gonna be sure you live up to being the clown. I'm gonna put those big shoes on... Son, don't miss the point. We have that kinda, kinda relationship.

Martha: Yeah. That's great.

Jim: I think he got, I think he got the point. I think it's perfect. Well, alright. You're listening to, iWork4Him with Eli Jones and we're talking today about his book run toward your Goliath and we'll be right back with more in just a moment.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him, as we're talking with Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliath and it's really his story. Check him out. Elijones.com Elijones.com. Eli, why don't you give us just a little bit of a picture of your job journey? What were some of the places God allowed you to work? And I, and keep it short. We got a lot of stuff to cover, but yeah. What, what, what did, where, where did God send you? How did it work out?

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, oh, that's incredible. So I'll try to condense it down to a short story. There's a lot here. Of course, we all have our own stories. So I uh, I started in radio broadcasting. I love being in radio. And I had an opportunity to join a major market station in Houston, in my junior and senior years, as an undergraduate at Texas A&M university, I commuted 215 miles round trip.

Every weekend I pulled three radio shifts over a two day weekend. And I would finish off at midnight on Sunday, drive another hour and a half to two home. And I was back in class for an eight o'clock session. And I did that for two years and you know, I really enjoyed it. And I, the biggest thing that happened to me was I met my wife during that time.

Jim: And was she one of your fans on the radio? She called in to win things?

Dr. Eli Jones: No, no don't ever say that. She I'll tell you what, this is the, I'll tell you if we have the time, I'll tell you this real quickly. So her dad was in radio. All right. Which is kind of interesting. And we actually had a lot in common. And so her dad being in radio, he saw some things about radio DJs that he didn't care for. He was a general manager of a station.

And so when my future wife told her dad that she was starting to date a DJ, he was absolutely upset with her. He said, no, no. So I was, you. I was an undergraduate student, putting myself through college, a first gen that I was commuting back and forth. So she finally got that point across. But at first she was really adamantly opposed because she grew up hearing her dad saying don't ever go to a radio station.

There's nothing good there for you. And that sort of a thing anyway, that that passed. And so we got married and we got married very early, started having, you know, children immediately. And and then I, I had to grow up. I had to tell people I had to get a, a real job. That was a lot of fun. It was, but then I moved into sales and so I worked at a, a newspaper and sold newspaper ads.

I did that. And then I ended up taking a corporate job with Quaker Oats, Nabisco, and FritoLay in sales and sales management. After getting my MBA found my calling in during that time, I found that I really enjoyed teaching my sales people. That I got the teaching bug, right. And I had always been very, you know, studious, so to speak.

So I would read books and I picked up books around sales leadership and motivating sales people. And I fell in love with the research on how to motivate people to do fill in the blank. And so a lot of the research I do now is motivating salespeople to do fill in the blank at any rate, I was led to come back to a and M get a PhD, and I started my third career.

In 97 worked at the university of Houston, went through the whole tenure track process, became a Dean at LSU and was recruited over to Arkansas. And this is the best part. God brought us all the way back home and we've come full circle. That became the Dean of the very school, like graduated from it's an incredible testimony and is nothing but God to deliver that. It's really rare.

Martha: Well, let's talk about that because in the world of academia, we don't always hear about how God is involved in that, how he's not normally at the center of that. So what has been the path that God has taken you on in that experience?

Jim: And that influence that he's given you?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's very powerful. I'm blessed to be at a university. It is a secular university. But if you do a couple of Google searches, you'll find the following one. We are very involved in the Christian faculty network. In fact, I've spoken to that group many times. And so we meet regularly. We pray for each other. So, you know, every other Friday we're on a zoom call and and we pray for each other.

We talk about each other's lives. So a Christian faculty network are very involved in that. We actually take out advertisements in our school newspaper. And we, and that newspaper will list the Christian faculty here on this campus. Wow. The other thing that you can Google that it's really rare, but we have a ministry that was started here at Texas a and M it's called breakaway ministry.

And breakaway meets every Tuesday at eight o'clock. We have a basketball arena read arena, it seats over 10,000 people. That arena is filled. With students interested in Christ. It is right here on the secular campus, kind of in the, almost in the middle of the campus. It's a beacon. That's how we, as Christian faculty look at it, it's a beacon of hope. We've got students going there and they're listening to very powerful messages. They're listening to scriptures. They're listening to the music ministry. It's very, very powerful.

Jim: Talk about your, the ability for you to live out your faith in your position? Yeah. Dean of the business school, correct? At, at Texas a and M is that what it is?

Dr. Eli Jones: Yes, that's right. May's business school.

Jim: So talk to us about how God has allowed you to live out your faith and be a major influencer there on the, the whole campus, but specifically within the school of business. Yeah. As the Dean of business.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So let's start with the role of the Dean. So the role of the Dean of a college, it's the chief academic administrator of the college. So I was responsible for the faculty hiring, retaining. You know, you know, looking at job performance, et cetera, the faculty, I am a faculty. So I'm looking at working with my colleagues head department heads and associate deans. I also had the staff members in the college responsible for all of them.

And in Mays at the time I was a Dean, we had 6,500 students. So I was responsible for roughly 7,000 lives, 7,000 lives. At any rate. So when, you know, there are times when I was invited to speak to students, we have a lot of different leadership organizations in our college. In fact, some of them are Christian based in our college.

And so I had an opportunity to go speak to those student groups about Christ and about faith. All right. The other part is, and I say this, and I know we know this as believers, many times it's, it's not necessarily what we say back to what you said Martha earlier about the classroom. Not as much as what you say, it's how you behave, right?

It's a witness in the ways that we carry ourselves and people can sense that. All right. So I don't have to go into a classroom necessarily and bring my Bible and minister to them in that. What I can do is I can talk about leadership, servant leadership. All right. And I can touch on the principles that we have in our Bible that will help us be better servant leaders, right.

And I can finish an entire lecture before you're done. I'll have students coming up asking, are you a Christian? Just by the very thing that I said, by the very ways that I carried myself, they're able to tell. And that part, I think is very powerful. I had the same thing with faculty, other faculty, just watching, you know, observing how I behave.

You come to my office. I have certain things in my it's my office. If you come to my office, you're gonna see certain things in my office that might tell you I'm a Christian mm-hmm right. And so when people visit, they see that. And then as I mentioned, in terms of bringing my faith to work is what we're talking.

Then, you know, I'm part of this very visible Christian faculty network. So we, we don't mind bringing our faith to work.

Martha: Mm-hmm, , that's so good and such an encouragement for people that, you know, a lot of times we're afraid of certain institutions because we just don't know. And we, we. The Lord is asking us to live out our faith everywhere we go everywhere.

And you're doing everywhere in the position that God has you in. Right. You know, one of the things that I think might seem obvious, but we maybe just need to dig into a little bit, is all of these career, this whole career path God has had you on, you have had a faithful wife by your side.

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh yes, absolutely.

Martha: And I wanna talk about the value of that in the success of your career, because It undoubtedly has played a role.

Jim: We're we're getting a chance to give Fern a big time shout out here.

Dr. Eli Jones: That's yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. Oh, you know, we just celebrated 39 years of marriage.

Jim: Awesome. Congratulations.

Dr. Eli Jones: Last month. Thank you. We've been together for 40, as I mentioned, we met during that time that I was, you know, traveling back and forth to Houston as a, as an undergraduate. And I, I, I couldn't have picked a better spouse. You know, one of the things that we, I have in the book, anchor and float, by the way, this was a strategy that we developed in that we were so young getting started with the family, you know, quickly.

Four children mm-hmm and so we had to figure things out. So, you know, she became the anchor of our family. So we, we needed to do that. Right. And then I floated and I was the one, the entrepreneur float. As you see in the book, floated all over the place. I was letting God use me. And I was finding my way as I was doing that.

But she is the anchor of our family Fern Walker Jones. She's also a beautiful singer by the way. You know, not to self selflessly or selfishly promote, but if you go to you can go to Google, you can go to YouTube and type in Fern, Walker Jones. And her song, her first song that she released is dare to believe, dare to believe by Fern Walker Jones.

She's always been the one, you know, and I'm, you know, I looked, I like to take risks. We talked about that. Yep. You know, yet, if I were to look at our five fold spiritual gifts, I'm an apostle. So I like to start movements. I like to start things. All right. She's a prophet. All right. And if you look at, you know, kind of apostles and prophets together, You see that that profit is really more of an anchor, right?

So she's, she's the realist in my family. I come up with crazy ideas and she'll. Well, Eli, you know, you can't do that right now. You need to do these things, right? Yeah. So she's been that. And the other part is in all these moves she's always one who would be, you know, the slowest to respond. So look, I'm looking at this opportunity.

I wanna go back to school again. I wanna go to over here now. And she was always the one that still is always the one who says, Hmm, let's pray about that. of course let's pray about that. Yeah. Yeah. And she always says, I could say no to you, but I'll always say yes to God, amen to that. And she waits for, for that signal. That's inside of me to say, yep, this is, this is God working in my life. And she always says, yes, that is.

Martha: That's awesome.

Jim: We're talking to Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliaths. Check him out online. Eli jones.com. Eli jones.com. We'll be right back.

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Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. As we're talking about Dr. Eli Jones about his book Run Towards Your Goliaths, you gotta get a copy of this. I am sure. Dr. Jones, are you willing to give away a copy of this book today on the show.

Dr. Eli Jones: I will. Absolutely I'll do it.

Jim: All right. So call our listener line eight six six seven one three ninety six, seventy five eight six six seven one three ninety six seventy five. I guarantee you will absolutely love reading this book. Be inspired by the journey that Eli went through, because it will encourage you in your own journey. Martha, what were you gonna say?

Martha: Yeah. I just wanna say listeners either mention Eli Jones or just say the word Goliath or something, because you know, we are blessed by other authors that give away books and depending on when people listen to this podcast, We may not know what book you're talking about.

So just leave us a message there and I will connect with you, but we are excited to be able to give away a copy of that to one great listener.

Jim: So Eli, at this point in your career, you are no longer the Dean of business at, at Texas a and M. You're still on faculty, teaching marketing, and you serve on the, on the on the board of directors of several organizations. Do Talk to us about your influence out there in the corporate world as a board of director, cuz that's a big position as well. Being able to take your faith out there into the boardroom.

Dr. Eli Jones: Yeah. So I'm on a few boards now. So I am a trustee on the Insperity funds board. And I've been on that board now for a little over six years.

I'm on the board of Insperity, which is an HR outsourcing company. I was on that board for 12 years and stepped down and then I was invited back. So I'm back back with my family at Insperity, just a fantastic. And then most recently I was asked to join the first financial bank board, which is a big bank based in Texas.

And so in all cases, you know, I can tell you that you know, as I was saying it earlier, I, I just kind of the way I behave the way I carry myself it is a witness to many. But more specifically, I'll give you an example. I was at the first financial board's shareholders meeting, which was just about maybe a month.

And I was asked to lead the invocation for the meal. Nice. And I remember talking to the CEO and I said, now you you're invited me to give the invocation. I'm going to say Jesus. He said, please do . Absolutely do. And I did. And that was a crowd of about 1,800 to a thousand people, shareholders showing up for the, the annual shareholders meeting.

And I was able to do that. At, on the Insperity board I'm really surrounded by other Christians and that's, that's really powerful. And and you know, we are very cognizant that we're an HR company, so we're open, you know, ecumenical for this, you know so to speak. But I can tell you that I still carry my faith wherever I go. And I think people can tell.

Martha: You know, I would love for you to just take a moment and talk to people listening right now that may be pursuing higher education as their career path, whether they, that was their intention or not, you know, we we've heard your story and we never know what God's path is gonna be, but that listener that is really drawn to higher education and they also love Jesus. What kind of encouragement can you give them?

Dr. Eli Jones: Oh, to be a faculty member and a person of faith, I think is just the best, the best combination. I am surrounded by, you know, very enthusiastic students and faculty and staff and students. And, you know, I've always said my mission is I'm in the business of transforming lives.

Mm-hmm all right. And I've had that mission for many, many years. It's on my LinkedIn profile, Eli Jones PhD. I've got I'm in the business of transforming lives. And so to be a faculty member where we are transforming lives, we do believe in transformational leadership. We do believe in taking people like first gens and taking them through a curriculum and then letting them go out and start their careers and be very successful and then donate back to the college.

Right? So that's all part of our, our whole life cycle, if you will. And so it is a perfect career for someone like myself. Who wants to transform lives when I'm teaching certain subjects and I teach sales and sales leadership, particularly when I get to leadership, because I believe leading is selling.

And I talk about transformational leadership. What does that mean? I talk about servant leadership and leading by example, and I draw on the concepts that are in the Bible. I may not go a classroom and quote the specific scripture. But those who are listening carefully, I'm giving these students scriptures to think about.

Martha: Excellent.

Jim: And you can give a lot of scripture without giving chapter in verse and they'll never there's right. They'll never know. You can quote nitche and you can quote Einstein, but you know, you quote the Bible. Oh, my word, that's awesome. Dr. Jones, we could talk forever, but we're out of time, but I want to thank you for taking time to be on iWork4Him today.

Sharing your story, Run Towards Your Goliath and just really sharing your life with Fern, the stories of your dad and your mom and your kids. At chasing you all over the country. Eli Jones. Thank you so much for being an iWork4Him today.

Dr. Eli Jones: Thank you for the invitation. Really enjoyed our time.

Jim: Make sure you check him out online. Eli jones.com. Eli jones.com. If you wanna copy the book called the listener line 8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75. You'd be listening at iWork4Him with your host, Jim Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's True. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and I retire to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog.

You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I work the number four, him.com.

6/23/22 - How to Live in Extraordinary Expectation of What's Around the Corner, Part 2

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now!

Jim: You've tuned into i Work 4Him, the mouthpiece for the faith and work movement. We're your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: Listeners, you are in for a real treat today in the conversation we're gonna have. And I just wanna cue you up a little. Get ready to call the listener line at eight six six seven one three nine six seven. Someone is gonna get a copy of the book we're talking about today, signed by the author and our guest today, James Barnett. And you know, I just wanna say this is it's fun because it's really kind of a little bit of a trip down, maybe your own childhood, if you had the, the privilege of going on any road trips as a family or your thinking about it now.

So the life lessons that can be learned along the way, we can learn from this book as well. And I think you'll really enjoy it. So 8 6 6 7 1 3 9 6 7 5 to get a copy. One person gets a copy of that book with signed by the author.

Jim: All right. So we're in part two of a conversation with James Barnett, the president of DaySpring online DaySpring.com. We totally encourage you to check out DaySpring online talking about his book, Blue Skies, how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner. And it's all about the story of his family and their adventures. But really what I loved about the book was how he took those experiences and translated them into leadership inspiration for himself as a leader.

Over 41 years at DaySpring - just a lot of fun. Get a copy of his book online at DaySpring.com. James, I wanna pick up, we, we closed the, the show last week up talking about Wall Drug. That was kind of funny. You hadn't even gotten anywhere yet, but you know, you're a planner. You love to mark out destinations and orchestrate wonder and awe in your kids and whoever else happens to be along on the vacation. But as a parent and a leader, you really aren't in control or as much control as you think about, are you really? How did your son, Jordan and your day at Daytona beach teach you that lesson that you really aren't in control?

James Barnett: Well, in, in the book, I have 21 what I call look again concepts or learnings that I've learned through life. And, and one of those learnings is what I call the facade of control. And Jordan was just three years old at the time. And, and Abby was nine. Nick was 10 and we were at Daytona visiting some friends. And for those that you don't know, they drive on the beaches there with, you know, there's, there's 300 cars out there on the beach.

The Daytona 500 was first run on the beach. Yeah, that's right on the beach. And, and so we were out there and, and we were with some friends. And basically the, the parking lot, we had parked and gone to lunch and we came back and my friend and I were farther ahead, closer to the beach. And Jordan saw us up there and started running.

There was a car coming at a very, very high speed. And my friend turned around, just happened to look back and saw Jordan coming. I, my wife and I didn't see it. We weren't paying attention. And he saw Jordan and he yelled as loud as he could, you know, Jordan stop at the loudest of his voice. You know, only God knows, right? God has a plan. It's not mine.

Jordan stopped on a dime and this car missed him by a foot or two. I mean, it was just, he stopped, and my wife happened to turn, happened to turn and see this. And it was one of those experiences that first of all, you just freeze you're you're almost did that really happen? Did that really just happen?

And, you know, it was one of those that just shook us, and our other two kids saw it and, and were just like, wow, just how close that was. And the rest of the day, I think we were all in a little bit of a daze. Jordan just went on and everything was fine. You know, he, he didn't think much about it.

He's he's three. He was just, oh, I I'm fine. I stopped. And, and things were fine, but I remember, you know, looking back on that during that trip, we, we continued on and, and was just that, that, that God, you know what, you have a plan and it's not mine. And this thing of what we think we have control of, we don't have control at all.

Our job is obedience. Our job is to look for him and his plan, and then, you know, I call it to watch and listen, and then obey to what he's up to. So that was really a, a lesson that marked me about, you know, we're not in control, we don't get to choose. And, and the reality is let's face it. I, I write about Blue Skies and I write about, you know, God is up to something extraordinary all the time.

Life isn't easy. There are challenges. There are problems. There are things we don't understand. I have had, you know, my wife and I, and our we've had plenty of hardships and plenty of struggles.

Jim: But never a shortage of greeting cards.

James Barnett: Never a shortage of greeting cards. but that was, that was the other part of, of my journey was this issue of, you know, I was, I've asked why God? so much, you know, so many times. But it was in my thirties, when I began to look back at my life about this: am I driven? am I called? I was really struggling with, you know, but Lord, I don't understand. I don't understand. And I really discovered I was asking the wrong question.

Jim: We're gonna cover that later. Save that one.

James Barnett: All right. I'll save that one.

Martha: But you know, I love this next conversation, we, I wanna have with you because I think it really plays into a lot of that as well. When you would travel with your parents, prayer was a part of the plan. Yes. It was on the agenda. yes. For, as per what you were saying, you know, So your parents prayed over car troubles and different things that were going on on the trip, and they understood that God cared about those very intimate details of life.

How did that impact you and your family? How's that played a part in what you've done with your adventures and in your leadership at DaySpring?

James Barnett: Well, you know, I think my parents prayer was just part of life. It was just like having dinner. It was just like changing clothes. It was, there was nothing unique about it.

That we're now we're just gonna pray on Sunday or it was this thing. It was just part of our life. So you, we prayed our meals. We, we prayed for favor. We prayed for help. You know, we prayed for God to bless our trip and, and my dad would always read Psalm 1 21 when we would leave right before we'd leave and pull out of the outta the driveway.

He'd, you know, he'd read that over us and, and, and really, you know, for, for his protection and covering as we, we travel. And so that was really, you know, a part of who we were. So I didn't, I didn't think and never question it mm-hmm , but it was, it was always, and I saw God and, and I talk about that in my book.

And one of the experiences when I was four that we, we ran out of, you know, our, our, our, I said that the radiator ran outta water and we were stuck in the middle of a desert and the middle of the night. And, and at those times it was all two lane roads in Arizona, New Mexico, and no one else was coming.

And so I remember, I just remember my dad praying. For some way, shape or form in the middle of the desert, he looked off and the moon was reflected on some, some water and he was able to go over there and had a, I guess we were carrying some gallon jugs with us or something and he got some water and brought it back and put it in the radiator and we were off.

Wow. But we were probably out there, my sister said two or three hours trying to think, what are we gonna do? What are we gonna. And it was just, that was in, we believe it was through prayer. We received what God had for us, but that was a normal way of, of life that, you know, God is at work and our job is to pray and to seek him.

Jim: And, and your dad taught you that God wanted to be involved in the intimate details of life. Yes. And as a leader here at DaySpring, that kind of insight is powerful because you don't have to make decisions on anything. God wants to be involved in all your decisions.

James Barnett: In all the decisions. Today, we're, we're praying over a number of issues at the business, the things that are going on. And, and we do that all the time. As my leadership team this morning, God is at work. Our job is to pray and to, and to listen. And as a leader, you know, the, the thing, the biggest thing you gotta really know is that you're not in charge. you think you're in charge. And yes, you have responsibilities. You have roles, you have leadership roles, but the reality is you is to really pray what God, what are you up to and how do we go about doing that?

Jim: You're listening to, iWork4Him as we talk with James Barnett, president of DaySpring online, DaySpring.com about his brand new book Blue Skies. Will be right back with more on iWork4Him. Hang on.

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Jim: Welcome back to iWork4Him. As we talk on location at DaySpring.com with the president James Barnett. James, you've been at DaySpring now 41 years, which is an amazing career in today's world. That's an amazing that you started as a marketing intern where you practically beg borrowed and stealed your way into being a marketing intern.

Was there ever a time where you thought you were done? Where you just thought maybe I'm done here at DaySpring? Was there ever a time you thought I'm, I'm gone?

James Barnett: Many times, many times, especially, probably in that first 15 or 20 years. There are times you're saying, Lord, is this it is, is this my time? And there are times when you're, someone's recruiting you or you're looking at those opportunities and you know what, every time. There was a couple of times I almost moved on. I mean, there was one time I really wanted to move on cause I thought it was, it was, I was gonna get paid three times what I was making.

I was gonna move to a, a big, nice, beautiful city. And, and I was real excited about some new adventure. And I've been here about 10, 12 years at that time. And I remember taking about a couple hours one afternoon and, and getting away and just praying and asking the Lord - Lord this as my dad had taught me and just just normal, just Lord, what do you think about this? And I, and I'd been through this conference at this point, I'd been this, are you driven or are you called? And so I was trying to figure this out. It was about three years. I was, I think I was 33 or 34, so it was three or four years following this. And so I was asking a different set of questions.

And, and so as I did that, I began to say, Lord, you know, I may heard the Lord ask me if you're, are you willing to serve me another year here if I ask you to? And I said, well, sure, Lord, I'll, I'll be glad to do. And then I heard him say, well, if I ask you to do this another 10 years, would you do it? And I thought, well, Lord, yeah, I, I, I would. And then I remember him saying, if I asked you to do this for the rest of your life, would you do this? And I remember just crying before the Lord and said, Lord, I, I'm not thinking that far down the road. I'm not, I'm not, you know, thinking about the rest of my life here. I'm just trying to make the decision.

I remember the Lord just saying, you know what now is not the time. I just want you to be obedient to the next step. And so I decided to stay and I've had a few more of that, but that was the most, I remember just the clarity that I heard from the Lord. He didn't speak audibly, but I remember him just asking me those questions in my spirit, as I prayed and was looking for scriptures to say, okay, Lord, what are you doing?

And for me it's, it's not been a I've just the, probably the last 20 years has not been striving. It's not been trying to see what else. It's Lord, what are you up to and how do I do what you've called me to do?

Jim: Well, and, and to that point, you start every day with a simple prayer. Yes. What is that prayer and how has that played along with that same leadership decision?

James Barnett: Yeah. Well, at 20 some years ago, I, I, I started this little prayer in the morning and again, it was after all these learnings and all these, what I call look again, you know, moments and these little phrases that have helped me is I begin to pray this prayer. You know that Lord, you have a plan today and it's not I've got a lot planned today, Lord, but you can move anything on my calendar, help me to watch and listen, and then obey. And I pray that most mornings, before I even get out of bed when I wake up, because you know what, it's that issue of, of, I, my flesh wants to be in control.

I want to be in charge you know, this and it sets my day fo:r God, today you're you have a plan. It's not mine. And so I wanna be obedient to what you do, but the truth is if I'm not paying attention, if I don't get my mind set before I almost get outta bed. And that even helps me as I get up and get my coffee and get my time with a, you know, some quiet time and devotion and, and, and scripture that sets my mind on, okay, God, today is about you.

It's not about me. And that prayer is it's simple. It's not hard. It's easy to learn, but it's been really powerful in my life to keep focus and to, and to really just rest into what God has now. Does that mean that I'm not busy and I don't have meetings and I don't have deadlines and don't have sales objectives and, and new products and new things to do and meetings.

No, you have all of those, but I, I really, what really helped me is, you know, Jesus's life, you know, Jesus got up and says every morning and he spent time with the father right? Every morning, but then what does it say? And then he went about doing the father's business. Mm-hmm right. He went about doing what the father said, he was following what God, even as a, as Jesus himself said, I only came to do the work of the father.

Right. And he spent his day doing the work of the father. And so that has been, you know, a good model for me to just say, okay, Lord, help me to get my heart focused on you. Get time with you in the morning and then go about the day. But it's your day. And you can move anything on my calendar.

Jim: Let's get back to some of your road trips.

Martha: Yeah. So I wanted to hear about, you know, I love the way that God created each one of us unique. And one of the things that is very strong in you is your desire, that love that you have for other people experiencing things for the first time and seeing the awe that comes with that. And so that actually led you on your road trips to start to invite other people to join. You probably wanted more of that. So what happened?

James Barnett: Well, as we, when we would come back from these trips, my brother-in-law and he was a really good planner, too, he did a lot of the, a lot of the planning and my sister and, and her two kids, her two daughters, their two daughters, and then our kids, we would tell people about these trips.

We were, you know, we would have our family gatherings and again, being, being the youngest of seven, and then with all the family members, you know, there'd be 30 or 40 or 50 of us at family, you know, get togethers. So we would tell about these trips. Well, others wanted to say, well, can we join? I said, yeah, get you meet us at, meet, meet us at Yosemite on, you know, this date, we're headed out there.

We're gonna go there and, and get going. And so we started playing these trips and bring other people along. And what was it fun and exciting is again, as we all began to have kids and, and get those big groups. We would go one trip. We were up in Minnesota and there were 22 of us on this trip. And a, a friend of ours had a, had a house on lake superior.

And so we piled in there and, and we worked out from there. Get experiencing things for the first time with these kids, when you can, you know, do do certain waterfalls or get out on the ocean or get out on the lake superior, which feels like an ocean. And you, you get out there, but see, there was a national park there. I, I, you know, Royale it's one of the ones out in the middle of the oceans, one of the least visited in the country, cuz it's hard to get to it's about a three hour ride on a boat out there, but we had to get that on our, off our list. Right. We had to do that.

But there were just so many experiences and you, when you see that happens the first time and that's the, and it really comes back to that. Look again is God is always doing new things and he's always, you know, full of adventure. The Lord is I believe, full of adventure that he is, he he's created good things for us to do and enjoyment for us to, to have, and, and seeing people experience those things for the first time.

Just gives me great joy because that's with, with the Lord, when I experienced things for the first time, just the awe of what God is doing and that, you know, it's like, I feel like I'm sitting in the grandstand a lot of times watching the game take place, and then I look, God, you're unbelievable. You're amazing at what you do and how you go about doing that.

And you never do it the same. Even the parables. You look, you think about it and then you can look at this in business. God just didn't do things the same way he did it. Different ways. So we couldn't have a formula. It wasn't a formula that, that, that God had. It was, Hey, I I'm he's he's, you know, owns not only the cattle of a thousand Hills, he's got a thousand ideas and a 10,000 ideas and ways to do things.

Jim: I love that. We're talking name of James Barnett who wrote a brand new book, Blue Skies, really just capturing all of the adventures in James and Marilyn's life as they took their kids and family members and other friends on trips with them. We'll be right back with more of our conversation. You're listening to, iWork4Him.

Make sure you check out DaySpring.com. But if you want to get a copy of the free copy of the book, Martha...

Martha: Yeah. Just call our listener line at (866) 713-9675. And you could be that lucky winner.

Jim: We'll be right back with more on iWork4Him!

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And welcome back to iWork4Him, is for on location at DaySpring in Siloam Springs, Arkansas DaySpring.com, where you can get a copy of this brand new book by the president of DaySpring. Blue Skies call the listener line:

Martha: 866) 713-9675 will be giving away one copy of the, the book signed by James Barnett. But you can go to DaySpring.com and buy them for everybody in your family. What a great gift.

Jim: So many great lessons in here, James. This is, I really wanted to hit this because this is what, what hit me the hardest in your book was your story of your friend, David. He died of cancer in his thirties. You and Marilyn and your friends wrestled with this on a trip after his passing, you quoted your friend Dean in the book. I'm not gonna let the things I don't understand about God determine what I do know about God. What do you mean?

James Barnett: Well, during that time Dean Kerns was one of our founders and he was one of my very great friends.

He, his wife, Ruth Ruth was my wife's best friend. And then we had friends, David and Amy Brooker. Ruth had gotten cancer and passed away after four years in September of 92. And David had gotten cancer that year and passed away in February of 93. And during that following year, we, we were really wrestling. We had prayed over these people.

We had walked around the houses we had done, you know, a lot of those things you do, we do to pray cuz we know God answers prayer. Mm-hmm and yet the Lord chose to take both of them home. During that next year, Dean and I were talking one evening and, and said, Dean, I was asking why , why, why does God do this? I was in my thirties and, and trying to understand, and, and I remember Dean making this comment.

He said, James, you know, I, I don't understand why, but I'm not gonna let, what I don't understand about God, determine what I do know and understand about God. And he said, he said, think about a pie. He said, if there's a slice of that pie gone, I don't understand it. I still have the rest of the pie.

And I wanna really make sure that I I've seen God do miracles. I've seen God answer prayer. Yes. You know, wait, maybe, but getting that perspective. That really was one of those perspective times about, you know, what I have seen God do miraculous things. I have seen God, you know, answer those prayers in, in the yes.

Form of what I would like for those to look like. And then there's times when God doesn't and it looks differently, but that God is still who he says he is. He's still good. He has still got a plan. There's nothing that interrupted his plan. He's right on time, right on plan. And that, that phrase, that line really helped me through my time with David and, and Amy still one of our very best friends 30 years later. And, and we're just seeing God at work every day.

Jim: Well, and, and what I pulled out of it was you stopped asking - you learned to stop asking why and to start asking what? What am I supposed to learn from this, God?

James Barnett: Well, I think that's, that was one of the big pivot points for me is, is as I began to, you know, ask why, why, why God, why does this happen?

There's following that conference. There was a time when I began to think, you know what? I'm really focused on me. The why question really focuses on me, but the what question really focuses on God and gets my, what I call, gets my head up and gets me looking out, get me looking out to what are you up to God? What are you up to God? Cause the reality is my plan doesn't matter.

Jim: And your understanding is limited.

James Barnett: Yeah, my understanding is limited. So as I began to, to look out and say, what are you doing, God? I begin to live with a little bit more anticipation, right? The, the subtitle of the book at the excited anticipation or expectation of what God is up to is, is what's around that corner and, and learning to live that live that way helped me get that perspective and to keep out. It's not my plan. It's God's. And that was a big pivot point. And I, and I talk about that, you know, we have to stop look and listen. Right. You know, and it's so easy to get caught up in the looking down and not, and not looking, stopping and asking those right questions. And looking in the right places and listening for those right voices.

Martha: Hmm. So many great lessons. You know, I love the fact that on your road trips, you and Marilyn were really instilling a sense of adventure in your kids and other kids too. But you, your boys, Nick and Jason really loved the adventure. You were sharing with us even earlier, you know, the competition of running down the hill, the fastest or jumping off a cliff. I'm not sure what all you were doing, but I know we've done a little bit of that in, in Minnesota as well. One of your trips to Lutan Minnesota, you said to yourself...

Jim: where we went on our honeymoon

Martha: where we did go on our honeymoon. So you said to yourself in your book, this quote: helping others see what they can't see in themselves is one of my greatest joys in life. How did you do that for your boys Nick and Jason? And then how do you do that for the family here at DaySpring?

James Barnett: Well, you know, there's, there's something in, in us. God has wired us for he's given us gifts and talents and he's wired us to, to love him and enjoy him forever. Right. Mm-hmm . But there's nothing better than seeing people experience things for the first time and to see them succeed. And you know, that just, just this last week, my I've got my son and Nick has got two twin boys that are eight years old and they're, they're both playing baseball, but, but one of those boys is, you know, not quite as confident as the other one, but he he's got the talent.

It's that he's got it inside, but I've been working with him, you know, just taking him out to the ballpark by himself. And we've been working on his hitting and to see him finally hit that ball a certain way or do what he's trying to do in believing in him just changes his perspective and how he feels about himself.

And on those trips when we were jumping off cliffs and we were, you know, out in the, in the swimming in a little bit in the lake, just to see if you could jump in at 36 degrees. Yeah. And see if you're gonna freeze to death or not. And, and all the things that we were testing and trying and doing for the first time, not everybody does it the same, not everybody wants to do that, but there is, there is an amazing thing to see the joy, especially in a kid's life right.

A kid that, that sees that joy, but an adult that, that doesn't believe because those negative voices that we hear so often. We listen to those voices and we don't listen to that voice of the holy spirit to say, you know, I'm enough, you know, I'm his, I can do this and help helps me push through and seeing that happen in someone's life just gives me joy.

Martha: Mm. You know, I think like we experienced your Monday morning jumpstart, your devotion time with your staff this morning. And I'm thinking about that just in, in perspective of this, because like the theme was, I am special. Yes. And understanding that each person is special and God has created each one and, and instilling those values over and over again within your people that you have influence over and the difference that that can make, I just, I see that connection there. And that's so amazing.

Jim: This show would be incomplete if we didn't honor your parents at least one more time. What I love the fact is that for their 60th wedding anniversary, that went on one more adventure with you and your family to Yosemite. Talk about that, that impact.

They were so surprised that you had invite family from all over the country that, and you met 'em at the airport, but talk about the impact that your mom and dad had on your family, your legacy, really your leadership here at DaySpring.

James Barnett: Well, you know, that was a trip I planned for probably a year. I told my siblings, we had do one, one good, great trip.

They'd never been to Yosemite. And we had gone out there and seen that. And so we were excited about that. So I have a cousin that lives in Sacramento, so we plan to take him out there and so we, we, all the siblings flew in and, and cousins and about 20 of us again, and had a couple of vans and, and we all packed up and, and surprised them.

And, and mom and dad were 78 and 81 at the time, but they were still just as adventurous. They were still excited. And by the way, at Luen they rode, they were in their seventies and they rode those little alpine slide Alpine slide down at a mountain in their seventies. And I, mom was real conservative. She was real slow, but she was, she, she got on and, and that was true at, at, at Yosemite, they were still engaged and still exciting.

And, and, you know, they, they were always invested in other people. That was the other thing I I'd take away from my parents. And they were married 74 years in three months before they, my dad passed and mom passed a few years later. But they were always instilling, you know, belief and excitement of life and, and never just never gave up.

Their persistence, their perseverance, their joy of it was something bigger. They were always invested in others and it was such a fun trip to be able to invest in them and to just honor them and have the excitement of them being together with their family, which they loved the most and being with family and friends and, and our family was an extended family.

We had a lot of, they had a lot of other kids that would show up. So you know, our, our Christmases and Thanksgivings and all the special times were always a lot of folks there and they had a big garden, so they were always feeding us all the vegetables and the garden and those kind of things.

Jim: That's awesome. It's too bad you couldn't have just brought along the old Buick for that too.

James Barnett: I know.

Martha: There you go. So one quick question. Why the title Blue Skies? Tell us how that fits with all that we've been hearing today?

James Barnett: Well, when I was 25, I was going to New York for my second time, my wife's first time. I wanted to take her again, back to that experience, I'd gone up there for a trade show and I was going back for the second year and we had two kids at the time and my wife grew up in Wyoming. So we decided to drop 'em off in Wyoming at the grandparents and fly to Denver.

So we - it's in may, may the 21st, 22nd. And, you know, it's 75 degrees. We drive from Cheyenne down to Denver, spend the night at a hotel right there next to the airport, getting ready to go. The next morning, I wake up the next morning and I go out to get stuff in the car at five o'clock in the morning and it's snowing like crazy. I mean, it is there's eight inches of snow on the ground.

And the long story short, we spent almost five hours getting to the airport a mile away. We had to dig the car out and we had a mile away, a mile away. We were a mile hours, five hours before we got there. It was snowing. It snowed the entire day. We finally got on the airplane at 5:30 in the afternoon.

We was supposed to leave at eight o'clock that morning. The flight was leaving at eight o'clock and I was supposed to be at this trade show to set up that day, cuz it was open the next day. And it was one of those really frustrating days. I mean, digging out, trying to get stuff, trying to get to the airport, delayed flights. Couldn't see anything, it was just blinding snow.

And so finally get to the plane, get, you know, and get on. And we take off about 5:30 in the afternoon. And I remember this just as vividly as yesterday, you know how you do when you're flying cloud still snowing, can't see a thing. And we get up to about 10 or 15,000 feet and we pop out of those clouds and it is the most brilliant blue sky I have ever seen.

And it was just, you could see forever. And just in that moment, I remember saying God, we've had all these problems today for the last 12 hours, there was Blue Skies all the time. There was Blue Skies. God, you're always, you're always there. There's Blue Skies all the time in sunshine, but the clouds of life, we lose perspective.

We lose perspective and my, you know, purpose, you know, for really writing this book is to help people see God. To look again to get his perspective. Cause when we can do that, then we can love with that excited anticipation of what God is up to next? Then we can love with that excited and excited times of, you know, life and God is at work all the time and that when we see him at work, but we don't get that right perspective, then we look at ourselves, we start looking and we start asking why God versus what are you doing?

Jim: James Barnett. Thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today.

James Barnett: Well, thank you. It's been a, been a pleasure.

Jim: Blue Skies, how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner. What's around the corner by James Barnett, president of DaySpring dayspring.com. Martha, great conversation.

Martha: Loved it.

Jim: Yeah. You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately. iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest. That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I work the number four, him.com.

6/17/22 - An Army of Givers: Kenneth Hodder, The Salvation Army

Intro: Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference Podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader together. Let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are super excited to be hosting the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you. Our Outcomes Conference Podcast listener.

We have an incredible conversation coming up today with the national commander of The Salvation Army commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder with The Salvation Army usa.org. We'll be focusing on leadership thriving and of course related outcomes. Commissioner Kenneth G Hodder. Welcome to the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Kenneth Hodder: Thank you so much, Jim and Martha, it's a delight to be with you today.

Jim: All right. So before we get started talking about leadership and your leadership role and perspective of what God is doing through you, as you lead a thriving environment at The Salvation Army in the United States, tell us how you personally keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ-centered each and every day?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, for me, Jim, I think it would come down to the daily routine. I have always found that personal discipline is one of the keys to a strong relationship with the Lord. So I'm up early every morning. And I begin my day with coffee and Jesus similar to all the signs that you'll often see in stores.

I'm a big believer in both. So I'll get up in the morning and enjoy my coffee. And then I will have a time of devotional reading and prayer. And in the course of that time, I'll usually focus on a couple of things. First of course, the passage that I'm reading for that day. Second. I will recall my personal mission statement.

Every day. I try to review what I believe the Lord has called me to do and to be and in my case for many years, I've always had the same mission statement. I will serve my God to whom I owe everything, my family, whom I love limitlessly and the army to which I am called. And then I will always ask the Lord to help me to do three things that day.

To be wise and to be kind and to be helpful. So following that discipline has always, I believe been one of the keys to helping me keep close to him and by so doing close to the source of power that I need every day.

Martha: Hmm, amen. Wow. What a, what a great thing for us to hear and get a little bit of an insight into how you start your day. And maybe that will challenge somebody to think about so many things have a mission statement and actually using that in your morning to set, to say, to pray into it.

Jim: I'm inspired. I wanna write one.

Martha: I know that's so great. So obviously those are things that help you to thrive, but why don't you articulate for us what thriving really means to you personally?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, I, I like to think that my concept of thriving is drawn from scripture itself. If you look into scripture, you'll find that those individuals who thrive, those who achieve what God has set before them as things to be accomplished are those who have totally given themselves to that purpose. When you look at Noah and you look at Abraham.

And you look at Joseph and you look at David and you look into the new Testament, Paul and Peter. These are individuals who committed themselves completely. So in my mind, thriving is a matter of covenant. It's a matter of responding to a call and doing so in a way that holds nothing back. I've also, I've often recalled the story of Abraham and Isaac.

When Abraham takes, what is most significant to him, his son, for whom he prayed and that he never thought he would ever have. And he takes that son and he places his son on the altar because he believes the Lord is calling upon him to sacrifice his son. At the conclusion of the story, of course, the Lord returns his son to him.

Right. And I've always wondered about that hug that must have took place between the two of them. When Abraham received for the second time, the son for whom he had prayed. Well, that joy, that sense of connection, that sense of fulfillment only came because Abraham had totally committed himself to what the Lord wanted him to do. So for me, thriving is a matter of living out a covenant.

Jim: How long have you been? I, I, you know, I, sorry, I, I keep thinking about that, that image in my head, Abraham and Isaac. And I'm wondering for Isaac that that hug for Abraham was incredible for Isaac he's. I, my dad might need counseling. God. I mean, he was holding a knife over my chest.

But

Kenneth Hodder: you know, the scripture says nothing. I know about Isaac even doubting it. Yeah. You know Isaac knew he was a part of a greater plan in a sense he was even more committed than his father was. And so yeah, it, it, to our modern minds, right, which function along the sense of individual achievement, individual goals individual flourishing, that seems like a strange image, but I think the biblical image is one in which thriving is not a personally directed phenomenon. It is a God-directed one.

Jim: Wow. Ken, how long have you been with The Salvation Army?

Kenneth Hodder: I've been an officer now for 33 years.

Jim: So you're no rookie that's for sure. Okay. So that's fantastic. So how does The Salvation Army USA, cause I know you're, you're in charge of the United States division of The Salvation Army. How does it enable you to help those you serve to thrive, whether that's the, the other officers within The Salvation Army that you know, the employees of The Salvation Army across the country or the, the people that you're actually serving in stores and in rehab treatment places across the country? How, how does The Salvation Army say go help people thrive?

Kenneth Hodder: What I love about the army, Jim, is that The Salvation Army is not a single purpose organization. We're not simply directed toward food or to housing or to rehabilitation, nor are we simply directed to the proclamation of the gospel. It's all of it for us to be able to say, we're going to help.

In Christ's name without discrimination, we're gonna do so in such a way as to proclaim in word. And indeed the gospel that we believe is the Lord's message to the whole world gives us the opportunity to hit every person at every point in their lives, whether it's there lonely, whether they're in mourn, whether they're in despair or whether they're hungry or they're homeless.

The army has the ability to reach them, that sort of breadth, that sort of encompassing ministry is what I think one of the great strengths of the army is, and that has commended itself to people over the 156 years of our existence. So that is the way I think the army is able to help people thrive because everyone's gonna need something different, but the army is called by God to help supply what is needed.

Martha: You know, that's so good because you do meet so many needs in different ways. So let's talk about the fact that, you know, a lot of companies have to try different things to see what's gonna work to help build a thriving culture. What are you doing right now that's having the greatest impact in that area?

Kenneth Hodder: I think communication is key. This podcast is a fine demonstration of what we're doing right now. Every week, Martha, I will do another video for our people. So that they're able to stay right up to speed with what's going on. We get out and talk as much as we possibly can, based upon the regulations that are in place in the various locations around the country, you can never over communicate.

And over the course of the past year, I have therefore committed myself until it myself. Uh, in terms of maybe 60, 70% of my time, simply. To communicating messages that I think are going to help and encourage and inspire those who are on the front line to do what the Lord's called didn't them to do.

Jim: I love that. When we come back, we really wanna hit you up on, okay - the last 18 months everybody's had a challenge. How have they impacted you? Today we're talking on the Outcomes Conference Podcast with the national commander of The Salvation Army here in the United States of America. Commissioner, Kenneth Hodder. Check 'em out online, salvationarmyusa.org. Will be right back with more on the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town will lean in because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be. Go to AwakenPodcastNetwork.com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends.

You will find a gathering place of podcast that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead, check out AwakenPodcastNetwork.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. As we talk with commissioner, Kenneth Hodder from The Salvation Army salvation army usa.org. All right. The last 18 months for most people has been a little bit challenging as leaders. We have faced lots of uncertainty and a lot of things. I mean, you know, the word pivot got to be, you know, heavily overused. What changes did you have to make in the last 18 months, personally, or professionally that helped you keep focused on your mission as a leader?

Kenneth Hodder: I don't know that I have pivoted or changed anything over the course of the last year. I think the lessons that I learned prior to that time have become more real to me.

For a number of years, my wife and I had the privilege of serving in Kenya and I worked for a Kenyan officer there who taught me a very simple Principle. The army is growing like topsy in Kenya. It really is expanding dramatically. And I said to him, one day, I said, how do you keep track of everything that's going on?

And he said, I don't. He said, I cannot tell you where my staff is, but I know that they're there on my behalf. And I think that lesson and others, like it have what have really come to my mind on many occasions over the course of the past year. It has become very difficult when you're in a lockdown situation to know precisely where your people are as a leader, what are they doing?

But that is not your first priority. Your first priority is to make sure that they are representing you and representing the Lord. Well, So what can I do from where I am recognizing they're out there doing things that I can't imagine they're being innovative, they're being creative. Mm-hmm how can I do things that are going to help them to represent the army to the best of their ability? So I think that together with other lessons really have crystallized a lot of the things that I saw and had been taught in years prior to the pandemic.

Martha: So practically speaking, what was one of the biggest challenges that you have faced as you've, you know, not always been able to be with your people or know what's going on?

Kenneth Hodder: I think the, one of the biggest challenges for Salvationist in general, Martha has been sheer exhaustion. The Salvation Army is the nation's largest not social services provider. And as a consequence, the demands upon The Salvation Army have been extraordinary over the course of the past year.

We're fortunate that we have dedicated officers. We have outstanding employees. We have a volunteer force of about 3 million, but when you put together all of the food drives the deliveries of food to seniors, when you put together everything that's had to happen in the past year exhaustion has been a big issue. More than 8 million people have fallen into poverty over the course of the past year.

Jim: Just here in the states.

Kenneth Hodder: 8 million here in the states, just, just here in the United States. And there are still more than 9 million people out of work. Well, when you consider those things and when you consider that in a typical year, The Salvation Army will serve about 52 million meals about a million a week.

Well, last year it was 225 million. Oh, my it was just massive. So one of the biggest challenges we've faced is exhaustion. Uh, Has been the mental and the physical strain that our people have had to deal with. I'm delighted to say they have performed magnificently.

Martha: Well, and that's what I was just gonna ask you with all the amazing volunteers and the, and the workers with their creativity and their energy. What is one breakthrough that maybe you saw this year that you'd really like to celebrate?

Kenneth Hodder: I have to celebrate the enormous trust and generosity of the American public. Mm. Uh, Many of the folks who support The Salvation Army have a full understanding of what we are and what we do. Many do not. Even those that do not trust The Salvation Army enough to support our work, christmas was a time when this year, the number of kettles was down because the number of store locations was significantly reduced, but giving was way up. And as a consequence, when we concluded the year, we were about 27% above where we were in 2019.

Jim: Come on. Nobody would've ever said that was even possible.

Kenneth Hodder: That is a miracle of God. It, it just, just astonishing. It was just a little bit over half a billion dollars and we could not be more grateful and we could not feel more delighted by the Lord's provision. Mm-hmm in the midst of all of that. We could not be more conscious of our responsibility to be good stewards of those funds. But that has clearly been a big breakthrough for us over the course of the past year.

Jim: That's astounding. It's funny. I didn't read that in the news...

All right. So listen, a lot of leaders study things. They listen to other podcasts. They I'm sure they're listened to, you know, so I heard a great one. iWork4Him or something like that.

That's a good one. but you know, they read great books. They listen to great podcasts. They do a lot of studying and sometimes you run across something like everybody in my command needs to hear this. What's one of those things that you've shared with everybody underneath you in the last year?

Kenneth Hodder: I read a lot, Jim, I try to read at least two books a month. And one book that I recently read struck me just in the way that you suggest. It's a new book by Robert Putnam and Shaylyn Romney Garrett it's called the upswing. Now you will recall Robert Putnam's book bowling alone, which was issued in the late nineties regarding the decline of social capital in this country.

Well, Bob and Shaylyn have mapped out the history of the past 120 years, all the way back to the Gilded age and based upon their analysis of economic trends and culture and politics and social structure that what we are encountering today in society is very similar to what america was living through in the Gilded age.

Jim: Hmm. When you say gilded age, what years is that?

Kenneth Hodder: We're talking the 1880s. 1890s. Okay. So at the beginning of the 20th century, the progressive movement started to bring people together. So we were not thinking of ourselves so much as an I society as a we society. And over the course of the next 50 or 60 years, they track out a climb in that sense of cohesion and community relationship.

Since that time they chart that it has come back down again, such that we're roughly where we were about 120 years ago, but then the most powerful part of their book is the one in which they say, this is the moment at which we can come together, that we, the history suggests that we can turn things around.

And I believe that this is therefore an enormous opportunity for the gospel, for the army, for men and women, for leaders who believe that they can bring others together to do so, because if there was a time that America needs it, it's now. I believe that the gospel we have, which transcends all time and place is precisely the tool that we can use.

Not only to bring people to him, but to, to witness to the whole world. So I found that book compelling and I shared it with every member of my staff, as well as every member of my national advisory board everyone across the country I could possibly think of. In fact, I should send you a copy.

Jim: Our address is at the bottom of our email signature!

Kenneth Hodder: I'll do it.

Jim: All right, Ken, when we come back, I wanna ask you this question. You're a third generation, a national commander, The Salvation Army. That's amazing. I want, I want to hear about that legacy and what led you to get there?

You're listening to the Outcomes Conference Podcast with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, as we talk to the national commander of The Salvation Army online salvation army usa.org. It's commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. We'll be right back.

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Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Like I said, we're your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. And today we have the privilege of talking with the national commader of The Salvation Army here in the United States, salvation army usa.org. We're talking with commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. Ken, I am under the understanding that you're a third generation national commander of The Salvation Army. Many kids run away from the legacy. What did I say wrong?

Martha: Is that correct?

Jim: Is that correct?

Kenneth Hodder: Actually, no, that's not quite correct, Jim. Actually I'm a sixth generation salvationist a fifth generation officer. And a second generation national commander.

Jim: Wow. Okay. So like I said, most kids run away from the legacy, pushed on them from their forefathers and you're the sixth generation being pushed in this way. Yeah. Why did you run towards it instead of a way?

Kenneth Hodder: A call a divine call. I never intended to be a salvation army officer. I went to law school and thoroughly enjoyed the private practice of law. For a number of years I found it intellectually stimulating and financially remunerative. It was wonderful, but one day came when I simply felt as I looked at the piles of paper on my desk, that it wasn't enough that the Lord had something else in mind for me.

So I knelt at my desk and I prayed and he called me back to salvation army officership. And I've never regretted it from that day forward.

Jim: Wow, what a legacy.

Martha: No kidding. And you know, I am sure that all of that training that you had up until that point, God has used in an amazing way for the benefit of The Salvation Army. So, you know, that's one of the things I think we love hearing from people is that, you know, our training is for purpose, right. And God's using you in that way. So amazing. So let's talk about in this last little part, the Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders really invest in other leaders, the best of what they know and sharing it with others. What can you right now share with the listeners to invest in them as a leader?

Kenneth Hodder: Don't try to change people. The Lord will take care of any changes that need to occur in their lives. The job of leader is simply to fit the pieces together in the best way to achieve the mission of the organization. I have always founded a source of great frustration to try to say to someone, I want you to do this or that to be something that perhaps they could not be.

But if I simply try to assemble my team in a way that one's strengths would assist another's weaknesses that I found, it was a lot more success. And a lot more harmonious as a team. So that would be my advice to leaders today to let the Lord do the changing and we simply pull the pieces together.

Jim: But have you ever struggled with that? I mean, it's really nice to say, but sometimes people are on the wrong when you, because when you take over a command like you weren't national commander last year, there was a different couple. Sometimes there's people on the wrong seat. Sometimes they're on the wrong bus as our, as our great friends, you know, wrote that book. Okay. So what do you do there? How do you handle that?

Kenneth Hodder: Well, for The Salvation Army, that's a matter of assembling the pieces. Our, our structure is such that if an individual is not Gifted for a particular role, we're able to say you need to serve over in this area and we'll make a change. Their covenant is just as important. Their commitment is unchanged. They're simply serving in a different role. So for us as salvation army that's simply a part of the process.

Martha: Mm. So, you know, I think that's, it really goes back to knowing your people too, and really being able to spend time with them and know where they're gifted and what they're doing. So thank you for sharing that. I am sure that the leaders that are listening, you know, have a, an opportunity to look at themselves and their leadership skills and think how they can implement that in their own work.

Jim: And getting to know our people is just so important and loving on 'em and yeah, that's... and trusting him, as you said, that's the biggest thing you said at the beginning of this podcast was like, okay, you got all these people, a million volunteers that I'm still getting over that number. And you just gotta trust him to know that God's got 'em right, where he needs them to do the job they needs to do.

Kenneth Hodder: Precisely. He, he wouldn't have made them available to us if he didn't have a plan.

Martha: Mm wow.

Jim: Commissioner, Kenneth G Hodder. Thank you so much for being on the Outcomes Conference Podcast today. Really appreciate it.

Kenneth Hodder: It's been a delight to be with you. God bless.

Go check out The Salvation Army online. Maybe you wanna be one of those million volunteers, salvation army usa.org. And thank you for joining us on the Outcomes Conference Podcast. As a listener, we just thank you for joining us. And we pray that the podcast will inspire you to higher thinking, deeper just faith about how you can find a greater kingdom impact and bring thriving your organization.

Martha: Be sure to visit Christian Leadership Alliance.org, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the Christian Leadership Alliance Higher thinking blog.

Jim: And if you're not already a member of the Christian Leadership Alliance, what are you waiting for? Join the Alliance today. Christian Leadership Alliance.org.

Martha: Remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it today with a friend.

Jim: And if you didn't love it, don't say so. No seriously. I'm Jim.

Martha: I'm Martha.

Jim: We'll see you again for the next episode of the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest.

That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I work the number four, him.com.

6/16/22 - How to Live in Extraordinary Expectation of What's Around the Corner, Part 1

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork for the mouthpiece, for the faith and work movement, where your host Jim and Martha brangenberg.

Martha: Thanks for joining us today. Everybody. I just wanna remind you about the Awaken Podcast Network. That's a place where you can go and find podcasts speaking into all different aspects of your work from a biblical perspective. So Awaken Podcast Network can be found at awakenpodcastnetwork.com.

Jim: You know, everyone of us listening today has had certain moments in our lives that have etched into our memories moments, where life came to an intersection and we took a turn and never went. For James Barnett, it was a lifetime of moments like these that inspired him to write his book, Blue Skies through a lifetime of adventures. James Barnett learned how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner and recognizing the impact that the last corner made on his life. James Barnett is the president of DaySpring, a division of Hallmark where he started 41 years ago as a marketing intern.

He and his wife, Marilyn live in Arkansas where they have three grown children and at least five grandchildren. James Barnett is here to talk faith work and Blue Skies right here on iWork4Him. We're on location DaySpring - online at DaySpring.com. James Barnett. Welcome to iWork4Him.

James Barnett: Well, thank you. It's great to be here. I'm excited about time to share today.

Jim: Well, I'm just excited about your book. It was so fun to read the stories in your book and to experience your life in your book. And I don't get a chance to do that because a lot of times people write a book about a topic. You wrote a book about your life, James, your job. And your job title comes with some notoriety. How do you keep your heart Jesus focused and your priorities, in proper order with God family and then work?

James Barnett: Well, first of all, if you have a family, you find out that you're not in charge all the time, you know. You've got a lot of help around. But, you know, really balancing, you know, what God is up to all the time.

You know, I I've lived long enough that when you have enough failure in life, that gives you new perspective. And it gives you like, Hey, I don't have all the answers. And, and so as I think about my family and I think about my work, I just really work about, about, you know, not, not about me. It's about what is God up to, and I work at practicing, you know, every day getting the right perspective.

Martha: So you didn't always have those things in the right order, did you?

James Barnett: Not at all. not at all.

Martha: So, and that's what your book is really all about. So what, what did you grow up understanding?

James Barnett: Mm-hmm well, you know, I, I grew up in a Christian home and wonderful parents, but I'm youngest of seven. So, you know, I, my siblings will tell, tell me that they raised me. My sisters, especially I had two sisters and four brothers.

And, and we were, you know, it's a typical family. We didn't have a lot. My dad was a, a pastor of small churches and a school teacher. My mom was a stay at home mom. And not only did we have the seven of us, but we seemed to have two or three other people living with us all the time. Mm-hmm . But they, they just continued to, to pour into us and to give us perspective about life.

And, and, you know, we were just poor folks from Arkansas that, that really tried to keep that perspective. So as I really began to grow and, and understand in that Christian home made a profession of faith when I was eight years old and not, didn't have this exciting story you could say of, of, of, you know, what I would say at making choices that maybe were harmful, those kind of things. I was just a kid that loved the Lord and, and wanted to do good things.

Jim: So let's, let's start digging into your lifetime. And, and I expect that over, over this podcast and the next it will capture a lot of this, but I wanna start with your work life, as it started off really early. Uncle Irvy, how did uncle Irvy teach you the value of hard work and generosity?

James Barnett: Oh, so much. You know, my uncle Irvy had a dairyette, and so he had only one, one daughter. And so us boys, we needed work all the time. We needed to make a little money and we, we always were hungry it seemed like. And, and, you know, as a kid, he had - not only had donuts but he, in the morning he had donuts, but then he had, you know, hamburgers and, and Cokes and ice cream and, and things that we really like.

So we would sort of get up there and, and look around and, and, and talk to uncle Irvy. And he would always find work for us to do so that we, we could maybe experience some of those hamburgers and French fries. And, you know, he never, we never went in - for some reason, I think we were taught this from our parents, but we never went in and asked for anything.

We just went in and said, how can we help? What can we do? And uncle Irvy would always find work for us. And, you know, he didn't have a lot either. And so he was working. But he would always find work for us. And we would come back in from cleaning the parking lot, or, you know, helping, helping others outside doing some things.

We would, he would always seem to have a hamburger and a French fries and, and a milkshake there ready for us. And just wouldn't even say anything. It would just be sitting there and you knew it was for you. So he was always generous with us and always caring, even though that he didn't have a lot, we didn't have a lot.

He was always looking for ways to bless others. And I saw him do that time and time again with people throughout his entire life.

Jim: And how good were his donuts?

James Barnett: Oh, they were, they melted in your mouth, you know Krispy Cream doesn't have anything on uncle Irvy. He had an old machine that those things, every morning he was up there at 4:30 in the morning. By six o'clock there were fresh donuts, glazed donuts, cherry covered donuts. Chocolate. There were just unbelievable flavors that he would put on those,

Martha: Getting kinda hungry, right? You're speaking, Jim's love language right there.

Jim: I mean, where's the dairyette today?

James Barnett: No, it's still there. The dairyette is still there. They celebrated their 65th anniversary.

Jim: Did it stay in the family?

James Barnett: It's not in the family. It hasn't been in the family for about 20 years. But the folks still use the name Barnett Dairyette, and they don't have the donuts anymore. Running that machine was I guess, a difficult thing. Irvy could fix anything. So if anything broke down, But they still have hamburgers, French fries and milkshakes that are terrific.

Martha: You know, you were talking about your uncle and how he modeled a lot of things for you and you know, what an amazing way to learn things when they're being modeled. And you then referenced back to your parents a little bit. So let's talk about them cuz they were really a lot of the inspiration in your life. Tell us about them.

James Barnett: Well, you know, they were, they were raised, my dad said we were raised backward, bashful and poor. I remember him making that phrase and he and mom grew up north of Salem Springs, Arkansas, about four miles out in the country.

And, and they were farmers and, and had orchards and things like that. But, you know, as I was, since I came along, my parents were in their late thirties when I was born. And, and they really just instilled in us, just the love of Jesus all the time. They worked hard. You know, they, again, didn't have a lot.

So we were always, you know, busy and dad was teaching school. We had a garden, a big garden, and my mom canned everything so that we could make it through the winter on. And so they were always just providing that love and care for us. And so we just knew that as a normal thing, there was never something that we didn't think we could do. Our parents believed in us. They, they would, mom would always just be as proud of us as any other kid and would always tell us we could do anything and just to stay in the game.

Jim: So you've been in Siloam Springs, your entire life.

James Barnett: My entire life, except one, one semester. I went to Baylor my first semester and was, was down there. And then I coming back and going to John Brown university because my dad had got a job there and I could go to school for free. And so that was a great deal.

Jim: Wow. I love that. We're talking today with James Barnett, the president of DaySpring, online dayspring.com. We're talking about his brand new book, Blue Skies.

You gotta get a copy of this - dayspring.com, great place for you to get a copy of it. And we've got lots more with James Barnett coming right up. You'll listen to iWork4Him. We'll be right back.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town will lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

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Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him as we're on location today at DaySpring, Martha, right here in Siloam Springs, Arkansas, with the president of DaySpring James Barnett. He's written a brand new book, Blue Skies, how to live in extraordinary expectation of what's around the corner.

And we'll talk about what Blue Skies is all about, probably on the final podcast, as our time closes with James Barnett next week. James, you you learned about leadership from your mom and dad. How did your dad ignite the spark to lead?

James Barnett: Well, you know, we didn't do a lot of traveling. When I was a kid, we were again, small town, Arkansas, but there was a trip we took when I was four years old. And when I was 11 years old, And those trips just opened me for adventure. We were gone three weeks on those trips, big family car, you know, piling eight or nine kids and, and people in the car. And so it was quite a, quite a trip.

Jim: You, you said it was a big Buick. Where any of them in the trunk? The kids?

James Barnett: No, we were in the back window and the floor. And you know, those were the, those were the days when you could sit four across the front and five across the back and be comfortable. Oh, it was a big old car. And, and so that was really a big deal. But my, my dad, you know, and my mom both were just, they believed in people, they supported people. And, and dad always, you know, told us we could do anything we wanted to do.

And he was always cheering us on, my older brothers and, and myself while were all pretty good athletes. And so we were engaged in sports and my sisters were involved in things. And so dad was always encouraging us to step out and lead and to live. You know, live it, our faith and our work and our life. It was just all integrated together.

So as I grew up, I, I had that as an example, and it was always an encouragement to me. And, and then God, you know, God always, you know, wires us with certain DNA and certain personalities. And so, but we were all, while we were different as kids, we all really believed that we could do something even beyond, you know, where we were.

Jim: You - on your first road trip, you just really described the awe of being on a road trip and a motel pool for the very first time. But in the second road trip, some of your, a lot of your siblings were grown and gone. Yes. And so your dad gave you a very special privilege on that trip.

James Barnett: He did he, he really, I, I was, I loved maps and I loved being, you know, able to help guide and be the navigator. And so dad started letting me sit up front and, and be this navigator and making sure and tell him where to go and what roads.

And again, we didn't have GPS and cell phones and all those things. We had those paper maps and we'd have them out. Every once in a while, we'd miss a turn, you know, and we did that. My dad was never upset about that. He'd say, Hey, we'll circle back. We'll get back to that. So he really gave me the opportunity to learn and to succeed and to fail, and then encourage me to stay in the game with him and not give up.

And he was always where I got that spirit of adventure from was my dad. He was always excited about the next thing. Well, what we're gonna the next city and we're gonna the next national park. The next thing we were gonna go do, he was always excited and trying to get us excited. And he was always competing with us.

If we were on a hike, he'd wanna race. If we were picking blackberries, he'd wanna, he'd give us each a quart and he'd take a gallon and he'd say, I can beat you. I can beat you to fill this thing up. And so we were raised with that competitive and fun. Everything was a, was a big game. He loved having fun.

Martha: You know, I love hearing that I wanna just interject right here, because I think that the listeners might be curious why we're talking about road trips. So can you make the connection with what the, how that plays into the book that you've just written - Blue Skies?

James Barnett: Yes. Well, I, the, the Blue Skies is really the story of, of how to get perspective, how to really, how do you see God at work?

God is always working, but you have to look again, you, you don't always get that right perspective. And what I did in this book, Tried to really paint the picture of looking, seeing God at work all the time and through the national park trips that we took as a family. So when I was just after 30 years old, I decided to take trips to all the national parks.

Jim: Just save that, cuz I don't wanna cover, only cover all your trips, but that's where it came from. That's this is all about your trips, which is why I wanted to - like your road trip at 11, it was not a small road trip that your dad gave you the map for. Where did you go? From Arkansas to where?

James Barnett: We covered the east coast, basically went across to Tennessee. We spent a three weeks...

Tennessee, you know, is not on the east coast. I know from Arkansas, that's a long way.

Martha: Tennessee is heading east.

Jim: Okay. Heading, heading.

James Barnett: Heading east, Tennessee. And we went all the way to Washington DC. And then we went up to New York city up to Boston and then up into New Hampshire and Vermont. My brother had worked at a well, I called it a rich kids camp because that was, it was one east, east coast camp there with about these six weeks, they would stay at these camps, these kids, and my brother worked at that.

He was getting his degree in parks and recreation. And so he had an assignment there to to go to that camp. And so we picked him up and then we came back across New York to, to Niagara falls. Back by Springfield, Illinois, where Lincoln where Lincoln was born. And then we came into St. Louis or the arch and then came back home.

So that was a three week trip. And it was, it was a, just an exciting trip as an 11 year old experiencing, you know, things that I'd never seen. And it gave me a real spirit for adventure.

Jim: Yeah. And you're talking a five or 6,000 mile trip.

Martha: Wow.

James Barnett: Pulling a camper, pulling a, pulling a camper, a non-air condition, $600 camper that we would stay in most nights. I think we stayed three hotels during that trip just because we were so worn out, we needed a couple nights in a hotel.

Martha: Oh, that's so great. Well, that gives us some great perspective for, you know, the foundation of all of this. So I wanna talk about your career and the fact that you were very driven even in your early days at day spring.

But then you met Bob Buford. Yes. The amazing man who wrote the book halftime, and he spoke - you spoke about that often, but you mentioned that you, your paths crossed and that really had an impact on you. What about, tell us about that intersection and how it changed things in your life?

James Barnett: Yeah, well, I was in, I was in a hurry to grow up. I remember, you know, just, I was in a hurry to get my schooling and, and even one reason I didn't go ahead and play college football as I wanted to. I didn't think I was gonna play on Sundays. So I thought I'm gonna go ahead and just get my education. And then I met a wonderful girl and I went ahead and got married.

And then we, I wanted to get finished that and I wanted to get a job and I wanted to have kids and I wanted to get my house. And, and I thought that was, you know, the normal path for a person that was driven. And I was a believer. I loved the Lord. I prayed. And most of my life, even through my teens and twenties was much more about me, my prayer life on asking God to help me.

Mm God. How do you, you know, I've got all this list of things, Lord, I'm trying to accomplish for you, Lord. And how do I do that more effectively? And, and so when I, when I would pray and God would answer that prayer, I'd be yay Lord. And when maybe he didn't answer that prayer, I'd be disappointed. And when I was 30 years old, I was invited to a conference and it was, I didn't know, at the time it was put on by Bob Buford.

Bob had lost his son the previous year in a drowning accident down the Rio grand. That, that following year, Bob would ask many of his friends to, to invite the youngest, busiest Christian people they knew to, to come to a conference in Dallas, Texas. So we came to that conference about 400 of us sit in that room and Bob Buford gets up.

And that's where I first met him was this week, this weekend at this conference. And he gets up and he basically says, are you driven or are you called? And he goes, this weekend is about helping you identify, you know, what is really important in your life, cuz you guys are successful and you're believers, but you're, you're really running for the right things and working for the right things?

And I had to leave that conference and say, you know what? I was driven. I didn't really understand calling. I just, I was, I love the Lord and wanted to do right things, but that, that was a pivot point for me over the coming years, as I began to say, you know, I asked that question, what is a calling? And that's what made made me pivot to say, I've gotta spend energy and effort really understanding this calling of God.

Jim: But it also impacted your marriage and your kids too.

James Barnett: It did it sure did. Well, it did, and it really, it, it forced me to really say, okay, what does it really mean to slow down and to step back and say, is, is it all about activity?

You know, we're called human beings, not human doings. And, and the issue of activity I was - I'm still highly driven to achieve and to do those things. But I think they're a little bit better in perspective than they used to be, but that, that really encouraged me to slow down and say, I wanted to get out and see, you know, the country again.

And, and, you know, you can't experience things by just sitting at home and you have to get out and see the adventure of what God is up to. And so I, I, I sort of set out over the coming years, over the next 12 years to say, we wanna get to as many national parks as we can. And we took two weeks every summer.

And my, my brother-in-law, my sister and, and her two kids. We did this for over 12 years and we're continuing to do it today, actually.

Jim: Wow. And, and that's what we're gonna hear a lot more about in the next segment. We're talking to James Barnett, president of DaySpring online at dayspring.com about his brand new book blue Skies. Will be right back with more on, iWork4Him.

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Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him today. We're talking, Martha, with James Barnett president of DaySpring. You love DaySpring.

Martha: I do. I am. I'm a big fan. I can be a big cheerleader for you guys. And I think that a lot of people may not even realize all that DaySpring has to offer. So I just wanna encourage our listeners go to DaySpring.com and check it out for yourself, become a regular, get the emails. You can shop for all of the things that you love and that are meaningful in gift giving and in your own life.

And you know, it's, we just are thrilled that we can be here on location with you, James. And just highlight a little bit of what DaySpring has to offer.

Jim: And I wanna do a little plug because on a sheWorks4Him podcast coming up, martha does an interview with the person in charge of their Mary and Martha line. And Martha's got a sister named Mary. These two, love this line, the Mary and Martha line. I just wanna put that out there - DaySpring.com. You can find out about Mary and Martha there.

All right, James, you grew up with a passion to explore when you and Marilyn had children, Nick, Abby, and Jordan, you decided to continue the Barnett passion for exploration and you continue to take it to the next generation. How did you decide where to take them on a trip?

James Barnett: Well, we looked at the country and we said, you know, we're gonna get out to the national parks. And we picked the west first because you're it's wide open and it's a way we can get out and about. And we wanted to see the mountains and the oceans and the, the chasms of the grand canyon and, and, you know, with the things that Zion national park and those kind of things.

And so that really drove us to say, let's start playing these two week trips. We would, we'd rent a van, a 15 passenger van and we would...

Jim: oh, so no more big Buick?

James Barnett: No more Buick that's right. We couldn't have the big Buick. So we had a 15 passenger van. And so there were nine of us on these first five or six trips. And then you, as you're reading my book, you'll find out that group began to get bigger and bigger. And there's a couple of times we had 22, 23, 24 people cause wow. Family members and other people would come along on these trips with us. And, and it was a lot of fun. So we just began to do. You know, every, every summer for two weeks we would go, right.

Martha: You know, I just wanna interject here. I know of several families right now that are doing national park tours, and I love this resurgence of interest in taking road trips with families. So I think, you know, God's timing is divine and I'm so excited that this might be something that they can kind of relate to as they learn more from your stories.

James Barnett: Well, you know, one thing I, as I thought back when I was 30 and I was, I was thinking back in my own childhood, I thought, what impacted me? And what did I remember? Mm-hmm , you know, I, I call - most of life has lived in the meantime is, you know, and, but it was that events when I was four, some things when I was seven, some things when I was 11 and the years in between, I didn't remember.

But I remembered those trips vividly. And I thought if I can have that impact on my kids and that they can remember those vivid trips and, and if you interviewed them, they would tell you, yeah, those were the markers that they look back on. And those were the experiences and they weren't always easy experiences because we were, you know...

Jim: traveling in a travel Buick with nine people.

James Barnett: That's right. I was, I was telling, you know, told many people that, you know, when you, it's not always that exciting, you, you pile in a van, you drive for 12 or 14 hours. You, you know, park, you, you know, you're trying to get some, some food you're trying to get going.

You spend four five six miles hiking up a, a mountain and you get to the top of the mountain and you go, wow. You know, take it in, take it in. And I'd be at with my kids. Look at this. This is unbelievable. Look at this. And then 20 minutes later, you're hiking back down. You're getting in that van, you're driving the next three hours and you're going from place to place.

But those, those mile markers are those, those wow moments I call, help you see God at work. And, and that's what really encouraged me as I begin to take these trips every year. I just begin to think, wow, God, you're, first of all, you, nothing is the same. You know, you, you look at the grand canyon and you see one thing you look at, you know, Zion, national park and the mountain and angels landing and the narrows, and you go to, you know, Yellowstone and Yosemite and the Tetons and the glaciers and Mount Rainier.

And you, you look at and there's nothing the same. And, and I would, I remember look looking again and saying, God, you're the most awesome. God, you're amazing. You're you're always, you know, endless, he's endless in new things. And, and we did the east coast. We covered a lot of the east coast, Florida all around north, south, east, and west did a lot of Canada, a lot of the different areas around, but, but it was really this, this heart to see more, the more I saw, the more I wanted to see.

Jim: Well, let's talk about some of what you saw. I wanna walk through some of your experiences. It really impacted you. And then your leadership here at day spring because of what you learn, let's just start off and, and we're gonna run out of time on this podcast, but you'll agree to stand for the, to do a two part podcast won't you?

James Barnett: Sure I'll be glad to.

Jim: Okay. So Wall Drug and anybody listen to this podcast, that's done any driving anywhere in the country, knows about Wall Drug. Yeah. It's in wall, South Dakota, which is really not an impressive little community. No, but it intersected one of your early trips west with your family.

It wasn't on the agenda, but the billboards for hundreds of miles, which literally, if you start off in New York city, you can, and you get on I 90 actually it's outta Boston. You take I 90, you start seeing signs for Wall Drug, 1500 miles away.

Martha: Building the curiosity.

Jim: They, so it made it a mandatory stop, but this stop transformed how you did trips. How did, what did you see happen with your family and you, as you were standing inside Wall Drug and watching your kids, and then how did what you learned at Wall Drug - how did that translate into impacting your leadership here at day spring?

James Barnett: Well, again, being a driven person and, and wanting to achieve - we had an agenda, right? We had this two weeks planned, you know, down to...

Jim: MArtha, knows nothing about that.

Martha: I, I was just gonna say, I I've never heard of anything like this before.

James Barnett: That's right. And had everything laid out planned and every day. And, and you know, when we saw these signs driving across South Dakota, we said, well, we've really just gotta stop there.

You know, and we've gotta, we're gonna go to the Badlands first and we gotta get in, you know, got into Mount rushmore. We got a lot to cover. And so we, when we stayed, you know, near there, and so we ended up going, and I remember this, of course, this was many years ago, but they, they ended up purchasing most of the downtown area.

So you went from building to building, to building and, and continued to go. But I remember seeing the excitement in my kids and my, my nephew and my nieces that were there with us and just their excitement and I was finally three days into the trip and I was starting to slow down a little bit and, and, and get perspective.

And I remember just, it hit me about, you know, I'm trying to practice this thing of not only what is, you know, God's call, but to slow down and be able to see God at work, to be that scripture, be still and know that I'm God. Just to be still. And I began to see things a little differently. I began to see the excitement in their eyes and, and having the fun they were having and picking things up they'd never seen.

And there's that first time when you see someone experience something and we were seeing these firsts that were happening over and over. And I remember just thinking, Lord, help me to slow down, cuz Lord you're at work all the time. You're doing things all the time. And, and I was just one of those moments that I remember thinking, wow, being still.

And that's true in business. That's true here at DaySpring. We're rushed in along things are changing constantly. And yet we've gotta slow down. We've gotta look for where God is working and join him. And that really has helped me have that perspective. And that Wall Drug experience was just one of those aha moments that I remember just seeing that and thinking, wow, I just need to pause. Interruptions happen. And you've got to really stop and, and seize those moments and make sure we don't forget, lose those.

Jim: And, and for you, it was an agenda item for your kids. It was a place of wonder. Yes. And not only the free water.

James Barnett: Yes. You got free, free water. They advertise that all through the 1500 miles.

Jim: James, we're outta time for today's podcast, but you've agreed to stay on. We're talking with James Barnett who wrote this great book, Blue Skies. It's really the story of his adventures with his family across the country, experiencing national parks, but also about how those experiences transformed his life and his leadership here at DaySpring online.

DaySpring.com. We'll be back with more next week on the podcast with James Barnett. Thank you James for being here today.

James Barnett: Mm-hmm been wonderful. Thank you.

Jim: You've been listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace. It's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest.

That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/ bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast, with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I work the number four, him.com.

6/10/22 - Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work: Thomas Lutz, Convene

Welcome to the iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael Miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, the mouthpiece of the faith and work movement, where your host Jim Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: Hi listeners. It's so great to be with you today. I just wanna remind you that on our website, iWork4Him.com. You can sign up for our blog weekly email. That's a way where we stay connected with you and, and let you know about new things that are happening places and what God is up to. All kinds of news. So love for you to connect there on iWork4Him.com.

Jim: So are you called into ministry? Tom Lutz was, he felt the call in his life. So he got a job teaching at a church. Then one day he was given a chance to work in the marketplace and bam, he knew his calling wasn't to be in a church, but in the marketplace.

But where does a workplace believer go to be discipled to understand their vocation as their mission and their workplace as their ministry place. Tom, lets couldn't find anyone doing vocational discipleships. So he decided to write a book on Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work, a guide for all who make disciples along with Heidi unru Tom Lutz put together a practical guide for equipping every workplace believer for their calling into their very work.

Today. We're gonna hear some of that backstory and some tidbits on what Tom's latest book has inside. We of course want you to get a copy of it and we're gonna be giving away a copy of. During the show today, Tom Lutz, welcome to iWork4Him.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Hey, it's great to be here with you guys,

Jim: Tom, we agree with Amy Sherman's statement that says her blunt assessment that says discipleship that doesn't equip people for the activity they spend 40% of their waking hours doing - that's not discipleship. Where do you see most discipleship happening? And what's it focused on?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Yeah. Well, of course, one of the challenges, reasons for writing the book was certainly when I went to seminary, I was taught subliminally that you disciple people as church members, that what's spiritual, what's important. What God cares about is what happens at church. And frankly that leaves an awful lot of people who get up every morning and go to work without any real sense of how to be a Christian in that context. And so what's happened, you know, the reason for writing the book was I think God laid on my heart that until we get every pastor, every Sunday illustrating their, their passages from the workplace and applying them to the workplace, people aren't really gonna believe that God cares about their work.

Jim: Oh, so true. So true.

Martha: So let's just remind us again, first of all, as we have this discussion, the name of your book and who you actually, I would like to hear upfront, like who do you want to be reading your book?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Right. Yeah. So it's called Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work, subtitle, a guide for all who disciple.

It was, it was interesting. So when Heidi and I first started writing it, she took my doctoral dissertation, which is on this topic. A lot of the classes I've taught on this topic and so forth, and we put together an outline and the basic, the outline, the target was the worker. When we first wrote.

But then as we got talking to people and getting them, you know, there's a lot of books written for the worker, a lot of really good books out there on faith and work. When I did my doctoral dissertation you're to write a literature review on the literature, around your dissertation. And when I went to search for it, there are zero books.

Zero doctoral dissertations, talking to people about how to disciple someone who works outside the church. And so consequently, we changed the thrust of the book. The, the, the book is designed for anybody who either vocationally or avocationally disciple someone who's primary on one whose primary calling is outside the church.

So it could be Christian coaches, could be Convene chairs like myself, could be you guys. Could be campus ministers, discipleship leaders, anybody who leads a men's or a woman's discipleship in other, how do we talk to people about the spiritual relevance of their work?

Martha: Excellent. Thank you for explaining that because I think it just helps give us context.

Jim: So, all right. So imagine for me a world where followers of Jesus were discipled to have clarity around their kingdom purpose. Yeah. To have church members who recognize their workplaces, their ministry place imagine discipling people where they minister at their work. Imagine God's image bears enabling the world to flourish. What does that world look like?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Well, listen, if you think about, you know, when, when we get to, when when we finally get to heaven, we'll still be workers. Right? Right. It will be still in this physical world. The only thing that won't happen in heaven is what we call ministry. There'll be no remedial drug counseling or crisis marital counseling or soup kitchens, but there will still be meaningful work of image, bearers, you know, building God's God's world.

But in my doctoral dissertation I did some qualitative research on a group of men that were in a discipleship group that I led. Our church is renowned for discipleship worldwide. Randy Pope has written several books on one called insourcing around the methodology uh, of discipling. And so this group of men came to me and said, Hey, we would like to do the methodology, the proven methodology.

But we'd like to change out the content and study the theology of work. And so coupling that powerful quality of discipling methodology, which we have a chapter on in the book with the message that, that your calling is to the workplace. These were already highly mature. In most cases, elders in their churches.

But yet their spiritual maturity just exploded when they began to realize that God, that, that one of 'em said, God invaded all of my life. So, so, and so that changed dramatically. The, the, just their sense of spirituality. It blossomed so well,

Jim: But let's go back to your pastor, Randy Pope, then, you know, you said he he's passionate about discipleship. You've written books on discipleship. When you, when and approached him and said, but Randy, you're not discipling for people for going to work. You're not discipling workplace believers who are ministers at their workplace. How did he respond to that?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Get me in trouble here.

Jim: Hey, if Randy listens to my podcast, Randy, it's good. He's just sharing your story.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Yeah. uh, I would say, well, in this sense, you know his, his point was that, that there is foundational content that needs to be gotten, which is more elementary than understanding your call to the workplace. These, so these men had been trained in that elementary content in my dissertation.

I, I recommended not that we change the first three years of the program, but that we supplement it once they've reached that level of maturity. The next level up is when they begin to explore what is my mission specifically,

Martha: You know, and understanding what my mission is through that lens. When you're reading scripture, it can have a whole different look. God has filled the scripture with examples of workplace, but we, oh yeah, we just didn't, I think for a long time, we've not had that lens for it. So adding that layer right. Can open the eyes of so many people that are involved. That's excellent.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Well, one of, one of the things I suggest in the book was that the problem is we've been taught to disciple church members, not image bearers and consequently, we read the Bible in a church centric lens. But, but the Bible isn't written to church members, it's written to image bearers who also happen to be church members. Right? So church is a small portion of our overall calling. And when you, you be just begin to read the Bible differently when, when you think about this passage is written to someone who who's got a fundamental call, you know, to, to create abundance, fill the world, to cultivate potential that God placed into it. And to subdue and otherwise incomplete and dangerous world for the benefit of mankind.

Jim: Yeah. Vocational discipleship. I, I encourage you get a copy of the book, Equipping Christians for kingdom purpose in their work by Tom Lutz will be right back with more conversation about vocational discipleship and how it really applies you and how you gotta get a copy of this book and read it yourself first, and then find a way to incorporate into a conversation with maybe the elders of your church or a group of people that you hang out with in your small group. We all need to be discipled to understand that our workplace really is our mission field.

You're listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim, Martha Brangenberg will be right back,

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Go to Awaken Podcast Network.com and unlock God's purpose for your work. With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcast that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead.

Check out Awaken Podcast Network.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend,

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. We're talking with Dr. Tom Lutz about his book, Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work. So important. This is a book we'd like to get into your hands. Tom. Are you willing to give away a copy of the book today on the show? Are you /are you willing to do that?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Uh,

Yes I am.

Jim: fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic.

Martha: Call you on the carpet on this.

Jim: I love that. Thank you very much. Call our listener line 8 6 6 7 1 3 96, 75 8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75 and request a copy of Tom's book, equipping Christians for kingdom purpose and their work. It's all about vocational discipleship. Martha?

Martha: Yeah. I just wanna ask this question, you know, Tom, as part of your story, you left the teaching church ministry to your calling in the marketplace. And I'm curious how that was received by, you know, both, both aspects of that, the church and the marketplace.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: You know, that was really what began, I think began my journey to what culminated in the book 40 plus years later.

So as a young man, I. You know, I'm I'm you can tell I'm not shy. So I'm comfortable in front of groups. You know, I, I, I was never timid of leading and so I had lots of, of, of men who I respected basically say something to the effect. If you want to serve God, you'll become a minister. I was a new believer young person in my late teens.

And so that came, you know, it came to mind. Yeah, I wanna serve God. So let's do that. So I went off to university of Maryland have a degree in Greek and Latin cuz I was planning on going to seminary. So I figured I'd get the Greek behind me, went on to seminary. I loved being in seminary, loved the academics, but I almost quit every semester.

Because they always talked about having a call to the ministry. And I just didn't. I never had, I loved being there loved the academics. So the president of the seminary was the father-in-law of my home pastor. And whenever he got wined that we were gonna quit and come back, he'd come full, full, full press me.

Anyway, so the, the, the gist of it is I, I didn't finish that. I went, started the church in inner city of Baltimore. Because at least if I was gonna be a pastor, I was gonna make it an adventure. But then as Jim, as you started out by saying a couple of friends were starting a business, they came to me and they said, we'll, we'll pay, be able to pay you a little bit more and give you the flexibility to do your pastoral work at the same time.

And I tell my pastor friends after several years, as a pastor, God called me to the ministry and that ministry was in the marketplace. But the specific answer to your question It was several years till I felt comfortable that God didn't frown on my decision.

Jim: So, so let's talk about that workplace story. Who discipled you to know that your business with 1800 plus employees was a ministry? Who helped open that paradigm to shift that paradigm for you?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Yeah, several, several individuals. One I mentioned the book is in the acknowledgements in the book. Harold Wolford was our senior senior partner very godly man, a man who clearly understood well, well, not the subtleties of the theology. He understood that God called him to lead people. And he mentored me to to do so I was kind of the designated theologian of the group, right? So in other words, cuz I'd been to seminary, they all figured if there's a Bible question, go ask Tom.

But I also think what discipled me was I did for six or seven years, I was bi-vocational. So I was, when I was writing a sermon, I would be interrupted by a sales. Or interrupted by an employee coming in or interrupted by a vendor stopping by. And so my whole mindset as I was developing discipleship material, as I was developing sermon material, I, you know, I looked around and what were the applications in the illustrations?

They were in the workplace, right. Just naturally came to me. And then it, so it just, it just became the natural way. I thought everybody did it that way. And the average pastor, what they do is they do the same thing, except their environment is not at work. It's in church mm-hmm right. So they relate to what we have in common, our hobbies, our family, and our church, but we don't have work in common. And consequently, they don't apply to, or illustrate from the workplace.

Martha: I'm gonna ask kind of a, a, a segue. So how, when you look at the, the, your congregation that you were preaching to, that you were teaching, and you didn't realize that you were doing it differently than others, but you were using workplace examples.

When you look at that group of people now, what kind of difference do you see in them possibly over maybe a, a typical church that isn't using those kinds of examples?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Ooh, that was a long time ago. But I just, just had a kind of a the, the pastor. So I was I was the founding pastor, but then we had a student pastor who was high school friend of mine finished his seminary when he was on staff with us.

He stayed there 40 years. Yeah, he was, he retired two years ago, 40 and we had a, a little bit of a reunion. So I got back to, to see with some of the key. Young people that I had discipled at the time. Sure. A lot of 'em came to work for me. Which was interesting. But I, I, you know, I, I think what you find is I don't know if you know the Barna research, but Barna's research indicates that somewhere around 27% of people in the pew are what they call integrators, people who have a sense of God's call for their workplace. What's interesting about that. And it was true of these people. They're more engaged in church. They're more likely to attend regularly. They're more likely to give more generously and they're more likely to interestingly enough, share their faith in the workplace than the people who don't have that integrator sense.

Jim: Well, I that's, I agreed with Bara's research on that, but I wanted to interrupt there just for a second, because I think his numbers highly exaggerated. I don't think there's 27% of Christ followers out there in their work that are integrators. I no, never seen any indication of that anywhere, maybe at your church because you as a pastor were an integrator, but boy, I don't see that in the marketplace today. 27%? We'd change the world!

Martha: We pray for that!

Dr. Thomas Lutz: We're working towards that. Well, that, that's sort of the reason for writing the book is, is again, I, the only way to get that number up to 90% is if every Sunday. I, I heard a voice from the Lord one day it's recounted in the book until every Sunday, from every pulpit. Every sermon is illustrated from and applied to the workplace.

The work's not done. People, people won't believe it unless they hear their authority up in the pulpit in their church, constantly emphasizing their call to the workplace.

Martha: That's that's such a great statement and bet we can pray towards that. Yes. Pray towards that. So, Tom, your whole process of discipleship is built on three core questions.

Why does every disciple need to seek the understanding that comes from knowing the answers to those questions? And they are, who are you, what is your purpose and how will you fulfill your purpose? Right. So let's talk about that. Why does every disciple need to understand that?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Well, the first, the first one is pivotal because it's, it's coming to understand themselves as an image bearer. Right. And to understand that they were put on the earth a very physical earth by a God who cares fundamentally about the physicality of it. I say that typical person, when I say spiritual thinks. Nonphysical. Mm. When I, when I say redemption, they think exclusively sharing the gospel. And when I say heaven, they think disembodied because that's, that's the church centric model of spirituality.

So you gotta start with that. You gotta start with, Hey, you were created when on the sixth day, the image bearer was put in the, in the garden and God said, it's now very good. So now that the coworker is in my world, it's, it's, it's improved. And he gave him three instructions. Number one, it's empty. I want you to create abundance.

That's the first one where fill, we use the term, but fill means more than have babies, used to create abundance. Two, it has infinite potential placed in it by an infinite God, therefore cultivate that potential. And we'll be doing that into eternity trillions of years. We'll never exhaust the potential that God put in the world.

And then third it's dangerous and incomplete. You need to subdue it. You need to wrestle the power of wind or the power of electricity or the power of water and cause to flourish. So that's your main job. You are, you are called to create a flourishing world, and that's what it means to be an image bearer.

Then the second question is really then important is if you believe that, what is your particular role in that? So a question I've come to ask, that's very powerful in a group, a group of people working outside the church, what would happen if nobody did what you do? What would happen if nobody did what you'd do.

Ask, ask that to a group of people sometimes, and they begin to realize that, wow, the world wouldn't be the same. So a couple examples I give from, from having taught in the past one is a trash collection company. What would happen if nobody collected the trash? Be terrible. We'd all be dead.

It'd all be dead. Another one I use - a CEO said, well, we make fasteners. So in the construction arena, fasteners are things that latches or hinges or you know, drywall connectors, any number of things that holds things together. And he just started laughing. Cause if you think about, when you're driving up to the store this afternoon, look around you.

There's not a single thing that stands up that doesn't need fastners. So without fasteners, we're living in caves and cooking over open fires. And so you see that question then. So if, if God wants this physicality to flourish, it's gonna flourish when all the image bearers do what they're called to do.

So the Billy Graham association is a great association, but if nobody collects the trash, everybody's dead, no need for a gospel preachers, right? The two in mosaic work together. Yeah. Then when you've got the person to the point where they say this, I, you know, this is what, this is why God put me on this earth, then getting them to plan it, hold themselves accountable to that's.

The third question is how will you fulfill your unique calling?

Jim: When we come back, lots more time, lots talking about his book, Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work. You can get a copy by calling our listener line, or of course getting one online at Amazon - Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work.

8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75 8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75. And you could check out Tom online: visionmarketplacedevelopment.com. That's a website where you can find out more about Tom. I'll be right back with more from iWork4Him.

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Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. As we're talking with Tom Lutz about his book brand new book out, Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work. It's all about vocational discipleship. It's all about discipling people to understand the significance of the calling to their workplace. Martha, we wanna make sure we send people to Tom Lutz's favorite place online.

Martha: Yeah. So Tom has shared with us his Facebook page for vocational discipleship. So go to Facebook and look just type in Vocational Discipleship and follow that page.

And it sounds like there's gonna be a lot of great content there that I think all of us can enjoy and get something from. So, Tom, thanks for sharing that with. Sure. So let's talk really practically, how can we get vocational discipleship started in whatever our sphere of influence is today?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Good question. You know, it, it's, there's a lot of resistance on just the level of church staff around you know, how, how do I put this politely? There's almost a sense of if I talk about work, they already spend too much time at work. We'll take 'em away. But the Barna research that we talked about - I, I agree with you; their numbers may be high - but what what's undeniable is that whoever the integrators are, are in fact more supportive, more engaged in their, in their church than not.

Jim: Because they're more well rounded in their faith.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Yeah, well, they recognize they need more.

Jim: So why is there such a resistance amongst those paid four walls, church staff, people. Why are they, so - why is this such a big deal? Because there is. It's church pastors seem to be, seem to be like resistant to this whole connection of faith and work.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Well, and of course that's, that's the reason for writing the book. It's why I went and did my dissertation was to really find out what the truth about this is.

And I, it's a simple statement, but, but when I went to seminary, I was trained to disciple people to do what I'm called to do. There's a word we talked a lot about in the book called ergon, E R G O N a Greek word. It's occurs two places that I, I specifically would look at Ephesians 2: 8-9.

You've been saved by grace, not of yourselves, not gift, not of works lest any man should boast. Then verse 10 says for you are God's,you are God's masterpiece created in Christ Jesus for ergon agathois - good work. Work that's good. The word ergon basically means what one normally does as a job.. That's its first and foremost meaning. In church centric speak, it becomes works of ministry. Right?

And so it just, it truncates it down. It's not a big expansive world. And the other one is Ephesians 4. He's given some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors and teachers. Why? In order to prepare the people of God for ergois deacaneois - work that serves. Right. And so that's what I'm trying to get across is if you're called to disciple people, you're called to disciple 'em not to your calling, but to their calling.

Jim: That is fantastic. I love that. We just heard a sermon about Ephesians 4:11 through 13. And how in verse 12, a comma in the initial king James version almost 500 years ago said kind of separated that for the teaching of the saints, for the work that they do, it separated them.

And so interesting. And it made it feel like like their job was to teach them to be just like them, but not for their work that they do.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: I wasn't aware of that. That's interesting.

Jim: Yeah. If you go, yeah. It's I wish I had it right it in front of me. I'd read it, but it was, it's fascinating to know that there is a resource out there now for us to promote vocational discipleship across the country. And the name of that book is Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work. How can your book make all of this easier in our local church where we're involved?

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Well, it, it it's a how-to book, you know, we've all been to the conference on faith and work, the speakers get up. We pat each other on the back, how clever we are to understand this theology of work.

But what I, what I discovered, as I mentioned, I was doing my dissertation and I started doing some research in the marketplace. I think you've read it. It's very practical. It comes out of, you know, 40 years of doing this. So I, I I, I, I'm a Convene chair, so I've got 24 CEOs that I work with around, you know, their calling to lead their company.

I've done a lot of discipling. I've seven children. So. You know, now 14 grandchildren. So I, there's not much I haven't seen and I've just paid close attention to, to like some of the questions which when you ask them brings enlightenment to people and, and it's all in there. The stories of how to use them shrink, wrapped, ready to be put into practice.

Martha: And that's such a beautiful thing. So being able to have a resource available that God has really given you a life of experience and training, I think you have such a, an incredible vantage point in time in the sense that you've been in the four walls church, in the marketplace, and you see the beauty of that integration in all of our life. And that's something we've been talking about for nine years and it sure it, it is. But yet there's just so much ground to cover, but having a how-to book, like I love how you said it's all shrink wrapped, ready to go.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Read the chapter and you can use it next week in the, in your Bible study!

Martha: Excellent.

Jim: The name of the book, Equipping Christians for Kingdom Purpose in Their Work, a guide for all who make disciples. Tom Lutz. Thanks for being at iWork4Him today.

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here.

Jim: You've been listening to iWork4Him with your host, Jim Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers, our workplace, it's our mission field, but ultimately iWork4Him!

Dr. Thomas Lutz: Did you

Jim: know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer, and invest - that is your mission field! To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the, iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the iWork4Him Nation or subscribe to our weekly. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review will launch more workplace missionaries across America. That's at iWork4Him and online iWork4Him.com iWork the number four, him.com.

6/3/22 - Our Daily Bread: Vicki Harris, ODB.org

Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael Miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian and do a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader together. Let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are excited to host the Outcomes Conference podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you. Our outcomes podcast conference listeners. How I did it again. It's okay though, because this is our Outcomes Conference podcast and you're our listener. We've got an incredible conversation coming up with Vicki Harris with Our Daily Bread ministries online at ODB.org. How would you like to say that all day long? Online at ODB.org. We'll be focusing on leadership, thriving and related outcomes. Vicki Harris, welcome to the Outcomes Conference podcast.

Vicki Harris: Thank you. I'm honored to be here with you.

Jim: You know, Vicki, before we get started talking about your leadership role and your perspective of what God is doing through you as you to lead a thriving environment at Our Daily Bread ministries at ODB.org. Tell us how you personally keep your faith strong on a daily basis and your leadership crisis.

Vicki Harris: Oh, yes. Thank you. And first of all, I'm so honored to be here and just so honored that I get to serve in a ministry. It's unique to be able to have my professional career aligned with my spiritual and work for a ministry.

One of the ways that I stay focused and centered as a leader is I'm an early riser. So I'm up at 5:00 AM, no matter what. And I start my day out with. And devotion is I work for a ministry that does devotion. So I do devotions every morning. Throughout the day when I have to make decisions, I make them based on biblical principles so that I know that I'm doing the right things and I pray and acknowledge God before I make those decisions. So it really helps to keep me centered.

Martha: That's so good. So I assume that you're reading devotionals at least sometimes from Our Daily Bread. Right? And we'll talk about that a little bit. So actually, why don't I do that right now for people that don't know what Our Daily Bread has to offer. And I'm sure that it's more than just this, but why don't you let the listeners know how they can even get a copy of Our Daily Bread if they're not currently getting one from anywhere?

Vicki Harris: Oh, sure. We offer quarterly Our Daily Breads and we offer annual Our Daily Bread, special editions, but you can check it out on the website, which is www. ODB.Org.

Jim: Yeah, I got you messed up ODB.org, ODB.org.

Martha: Excellent. Thank you for that. So what does thriving mean to you personally?

Vicki Harris: Well, I thriving means to me that's something that I always quote as an HR professional that we want to provide an environment where everybody's thriving. And so what I what I mean by that is I want to make sure that you're able to grow. Spiritually, you're able to grow professionally and personally, and that's for me too.

I love to learn new things. And so I make sure that I'm reading books, that I'm going to seminars that I'm, whether they're professional, spiritual, or natural, making sure that I continue to grow. And also making sure that I maintain balance this past year was easy to get out of balance and get focused on what was happening around. And I just always like to make sure that I maintain good balance between work home and church or ministry.

Jim: Okay, balanced Vicki, come on. Everybody's going: really? Impossible! There's no such thing as balanced, but there's an integrated life. Because work tugs hard on us and family tugs hard on us.

And then there's all the other stuff in the world. So really is it balance that you're seeking or what is it? Because people think, yeah, I can't find balance.

Vicki Harris: I have to make sure that I manage my own expectations of myself. And when I get out of balance is because I've placed too much expectations on what I can do as a person.

So personally, I make sure that I go to God and say, I need, I need more balance. I need to make sure that I correct some things cause I'm out of sync during this time and making sure that I don't have unrealistic expectations for myself. With oftentimes as what we do, as people, as professionals, as we put so many expectations on ourselves that we can feel like, so we can feel like we can do it all, but we can't.

Jim: It never happens to us that much. Must just be a Michigan thing.

Martha: Maybe that's what it is... no, no, you're exactly right. And now the sooner we come to grips with that, the better off we'll all be. Right? And leaning on God, like you said earlier, you know, just going to him and saying, what do I do? So let's talk about Our Daily Bread ministries.

How, how does Our Daily Bread ministries enable the people that you serve to thrive? So maybe the recipients of the, the daily bread .

Vicki Harris: One of the things while we do several things, I don't think I've ever worked for a or organization or a ministry that invest so much into the growth and development of their people.

We invest in them professionally. We have a professional leadership program for all of our 38 offices around the world. And we do that in partnership with some of our universities to present that, but some of our Christian universities as well, so that they're continuing to grow professionally.

And then also spiritually, we have a staff discipleship plan. That every office around the world globally, we're all praying and we're all studying the same thing. We all have the same topic every month that we're studying and the content stays the same, the discussion. Are pretty much the same, but people are able to really grow in terms of building a relationship with price, but also building their relationship with each other on a deeper level, you have a lot of small groups around, around the world that get together as employees and leaders just studying God's word.

And that's, that's an enriched way that we can help our employees.

Jim: How many employees you're talking about worldwide? You said 38 offices around the globe. How many employees?

Vicki Harris: We have about 700 employees all around the world and we have about 350 volunteers that work for us also.

Jim: So it's over a thousand people.

So I just find it fascinating that yes, you are a daily devotional ministry, but you're driving that all the way through the culture, to the, I mean, all throughout the culture of the company, which is unusual. In Christian organizations, that's, that's an effort because it just seems like, well, we're all Christians, so everybody's doing the demotion.

So let's just go about the work that we need to do, but you're actually making sure that everybody's on the same page studying and expanding their knowledge of God on a daily basis. I got to applaud you. That's fantastic. I'm super excited about that. When you faced COVID this last year, you know, it's been, it's been difficult.

What did you find? How did you adjust your formula for creating and sustaining a thriving culture during, I mean, what'd you find that made the greatest impact?

Vicki Harris: Good question. It was difficult at first when COVID first hit and, and of course it's a global pandemic that we've been in. So all of our offices were impacted by the global pandemic.

So all of our employees were sent home. For the us, it was. Took us probably about a week to adjust and to make that happen successfully so that we can continue to get Our Daily Bread booklets out. We became an essential employee employer, so we were able to get. The essential workers working so that they can continue to continue to ship, continue to receive, continue to do credits all of those things.

Now around the world, it was a little more difficult to do that because they didn't have the programs in place or the avenues to really make sure that banking still happened properly. That customer service still handle, handle things the way that they need. Technology wasn't there the way that it needed to be.

So it was a real challenge for us to be able to make it happen about it took us about three months around the world to do the, and some borders were closed. So we weren't able to have the access that we normally would to our missionaries that were over in Russia or in the CIS countries and Bella ruse.

So we had to really try to be creative on how to help them. The booklets over into the countries where people desperately desperately need a guy's word. And so we had to do some creative things to be able to make it happen. And we finally made it happen in about three months around the world.

Jim: That's not bad having to rebuild your entire company and processes in three months.

That's not too bad people, you know, it took Noah a hundred years to build a boat. So I think three months is pretty good. Hey, we're talking today with Vicki Harris. Our Daily Bread ministries, online ODB.org. We'll be right back with more on the Outcomes Conference podcast.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town we'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be. Go to AwakenPodcastNetwork.com and unlock God's purpose for your work with help from some friends. You will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today.

Go ahead. Check out AwakenPodcastNetwork.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend!

Jim: And welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast. Today, we're talking with Vicki Harris from Our Daily Bread ministries online. I love saying this ODB.org ODB.org. If you've never checked out Our Daily Bread ministries and the daily devotional.

Literally, I got exposed to this as a, as an eight year old kid at church. I remember first time seeing it as an eight year old kid at church, man, my mom was reading this. Eventually my dad was reading this. This is an incredible daily devotional that really just get your mind going in the morning, over a cup of coffee.

I that's, that's what I can remember. My dad, when he finally became a believer drinking a cup of coffee and reading Our Daily Bread. It was fantastic.

Martha: Yeah, it really is. So Vicki, you were just sharing with us how, as an organization, you guys had a lot of adjustments to make in order to still be able to distribute your booklet.

And but I want to talk about you personally, as a leader and professionally, how did you make changes in your life, in your leadership so that you could still be on mission?

Vicki Harris: That's a great question. When the pandemic first hit, I began to really seek out about how to really go forward and be the professional that I've always been.

And he really spoke to my heart and, and had me to just be focused. And that was the word that I kept hearing. Just be focused, no matter what is going on around you be focused on me. Be focused on my. So, what I did is I joined a group and there was a discipleship group called Master Life. It was probably a seven month intense study and discipleship classes.

And that kept me really focused on God's word. So I was growing also and God's word, but also connecting with him on a deeper level.

Martha: Mm that's so good. You know, we, we can always be growing and learning. How good that you stepped back for just a moment and said, God, what, what should I be doing? You know, I never thought about the extra pressure or special pressure you probably had as an HR professional, you know, really trying to figure out how to navigate all that this last year and a half or so has brought to us.

Jim: You had to navigate Michigan. You had to navigate the United States. Then you had to navigate 37 other countries or whatever. How many over, how many countries are you in? You said 38. So 38 total. So you got to navigate the rules and regulations of 38 countries. That was no small task. I love the fact that you just got on your knees. So what do you think has been the greatest challenge to you and your leadership in the last 12 to 18 months?

Vicki Harris: Yeah. I think for me as an HR professional, it's been really tough to keep up with all of our changing regulations from our state. Michigan has been hit real hard with COVID just like many other states, but our state is the number one in terms of COVID cases.

And so trying to maintain a sense of stability. Trying to maintain a sense of resilience and just w just making sure that God's word. And my faith was strong was a challenge at times, because you were faced with ever constant changing regulation. Constant changing people were being impacted. Families were being impacted.

There were so many changes and so many things happening at one time. And also we were having social justice issues even in, in our country that you had to also pay attention to. And so it was hard to maintain balance and hard to maintain. But I kept going back to God and acknowledging him and asking for his wisdom.

Every time I got weak, I went back to God and asked him for direction and for clarity and for peace so that I could demonstrate that same thing for our employees.

Martha: Hmm. So while you were doing that, you know, asking God for those things, was there something in particular that you could share with us that was a major breakthrough for you or something that you got to experience during the same time?

Vicki Harris: I think I, I began to learn how to balance what I was doing personally, like for myself, making sure that I made time for me because in HR, you can give, give, give out to everyone else, but if you're not. Restored and poured into, then you, you don't have anything to give. So I made sure that I created a schedule that I made sure that I had my me-time for my own self replenishment and that I, I began to exercise on a daily basis, something I wasn't doing before, but boy did it really help me with my stress and helped me to maintain good eating habits.

And so that was a breakthrough for me because it was something that was. I did it every now and then, but it wasn't a regular discipline. It became a regular discipline for me to even maintain my, my schedule to be able to exercise was a huge breakthrough.

Jim: Well, I love that. You're dealing with COVID, as you said, the social justice issues and Michigan had, you know, that there was a lot of it was across the country. It wasn't just one, but you were dealing a lot of issues there in Michigan, 38 countries where they're dealing with same things and you decided to change your eating habits and add exercise on a daily basis.

I, you deserve like five stars on a smiley face. I mean, I I'm, I'm, I'm personally impressed and inspired. I'm like, okay, I, if Vicki can do it and she's influencing 38 countries and a thousand people. I can do it too. Thank you. Thank for sharing that. When we come back, I really want to talk about your Mastering You virtual leadership event.

I really want to talk about that because I was curious about it. I'd like for you to tell people more about it, but I really want to encourage everybody Vicki to check out Our Daily Bread online at ODB.org. And just as you have said, that you've got your entire organization across 38 countries and 1,000 people based on your numbers all doing daily devotions all the same, same conversations, no matter where they, where they are in the globe, on the globe. And that's what everybody listening to this podcast today should be doing with all of their offices, because it's gotta be Christ centered prayers, gotta be at the center of this.

And you're a great example of that. Thank you for doing that. We'll be right back with more with Vicki Harris from Our Daily Bread ministries online at ODB.org. You're listening to the Outcomes Conference podcast with your hosts Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

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Hey, welcome back to the Outcomes Conference podcast. We're talking to Vicki Harris. She's in charge of global HR for Our Daily Bread ministries, 38 countries over a thousand people. ODB.org.

Martha: So Vicki I just love this conversation because you, you just really are setting such a great example for each and every one of us of what you can do when you ask God, you know, what to do in a time of that's hard and leaning into that.

So why don't you share Jim just was saying before the last section that we wanted to hear about this virtual leadership event, Mastering You. Tell us about it.

Vicki Harris: The virtual leadership event is centered around equipping, motivating and inspiring leaders. And one of the topics that we chose was Mastering You, making sure that every area of your life, especially as it relates to your goals, your habits, your emotions, your health and wellbeing, your body, that all of those things that you have put some systems and processes in place to master.

We talk about mastering goals. We talked to, we developed a system and a process that helps you to reach, to achieve them and small chunks. A lot of times people don't achieve their goals because they're too massive and they haven't learned a good system to break them down into small chunks. If it's just one thing a day or a week to really master that thing and you grow from there, mastering your head.

Breaking bad habits was something I, and I had to do not exercising, not eating properly. And then replace that with some good habits, with some positive long-term habits that are going to help you with your overall wellbeing and then mastering your emotions, developing strategies. To help your emotions to be in alignment with your values and principles, making sure that during the difficult times that your emotions stayed the same, that they were in alignment with God's word, that you were steadfast and that you knew that your faith was strong in him and nothing could change.

And then making sure it's your body, your overall health and wellness, making sure that you're exercising and doing all of those things, to make sure that over a long period of time, you can be effective as a leader.

Jim: That's what that's an incredible list. Is this like a week long virtual event? Cause I'm thinking I was overwhelmed by the list and you just got started. How long is the event?

Vicki Harris: It's actually three, three full days. So it's a good, almost 32 hours 24, 32 hours as what we usually kind of plan on. Sometimes we've done it just once a month so that we can really deal with one topic over a longer period of time. It just really depends on the timing and the audience of what their, where their needs are.

Jim: Is it just for Our Daily Bread ministries employees, or is this for everyone?

Vicki Harris: Well, we started it as just an internal program for our leaders, for Our Daily Bread globally, worldwide, and it's grown. People in our community have wanted to be a part of it. So we've extended it out to our community and those that want to be a part of it. One great positive thing that has happened from the pandenucm it's kind of broken down the walls because we all use Zoom. So there are no barriers to wherever you're located. So we've extended it and it's all going to be on zoom. So you don't have to necessarily be in our Grand Rapids community.

Martha: That's excellent. Well, it sounds like God has really inspired the the conversation, the topics and, and what you're really drilling into. So thank you for doing that.

And

Jim: it sounds like you're listening to what you're teaching because you did all that stuff.

Martha: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Wow. She's the poster child for it. Righ?.

Jim: And you are the poster child for Mastering You. Love that. That's great.

Martha: So Vickie, before we end the podcast, I just want to talk about this.

So Christian Leadership Alliance is a place where leaders come to invest the best of what they know and helping other leaders to grow within with a certain leadership idea or a way of thinking. What is something that you can share today as an investment into the listeners of this podcast?

Vicki Harris: Thank you. One of the things that I just wholeheartedly believe in is is that every leader, or if you're aspiring to be a leader, is that you focus on building your character as that you set that foundation doesn't matter if it takes a month or years, make sure that you build a great foundation on your character, because that is the thing that's going to sustain you when there's difficult times.

And also that you are building your faith. And so as a leader, I can't do this without God. I can't do this without his help and his strength. And so I tell leaders to make sure that you are getting your daily replenishment and the word of God and worship and in prayer, making sure that you are truly becoming the person that he wants you to be.

Not necessarily who other people want you to be, or what society says you should be or what they say you should look like, but truly working on becoming who God has called you to be.

Jim: Wow, Vicki Harris. I'd like a job at the Our Daily Bread ministries. Who wouldn't want to work alongside somebody like you? Thank you so much for being so transparent today on the podcast. We're just so grateful, vicki Harris, that you joined us today from Our Daily Bread ministries online at ODB.org. Thanks for joining us on the Outcomes Conference podcast.

Vicki Harris: Thank you for having me.

It's so awesome. Thank you so much doing it. Listening to you, our Outcomes Conference podcast listeners. Thanks for joining us today. We pray that this podcast inspired you. I have no doubt that it did, and that it inspired you to higher thinking and deeper thinking and thinking about driving and what you could do to help them. For a greater kingdom impact within your organization

Martha: be sure to visit ChristianLeadershipAlliance.org, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the CLA higher thinking blogs.

Jim: And if you're not already a member of the Christian Leadership Alliance, what, what, what are you waiting for? Join the Alliance today. Christian Leadership Alliance.org, Christian Leadership Alliance.org

And

Martha: remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it with a friend.

Jim: I'm Jim.

Martha: I'm Martha.

Jim: We'll see you again for the next episode of the Outcomes Conference.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, the cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work with volunteer and invest.

That is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheworks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/ bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the, iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, please visit. iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the hour for him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review we'll launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I worked the number for him. Dot com.

5/27/22 - Co-Laboring with God: Kenny & Clarisa Hill, Parables Media

Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael Miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian and do a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into, iWork4Him, the mouthpiece for the faith and work movement where your host, Jim and Martha brangenberg.

Martha: Thanks for being with us today. You know, Jim, I'm just excited that we get this opportunity to talk to our listeners, to have them be a part of conversations. But if you ever have any comments or anything that you want to connect with us directly, cause I know a lot of it's kind of you're in a passive position when you're just listening to.

Please reach to out to us, by going to our website, iWork4Him.com that's I work the number for him.com and there we actually have a contact us page. I'd love to hear from yet and see if there's anything that we can do to encourage you, or if you have any questions or comments or anything like that, we're just an open book. Aren't we, Jim?

Jim: Yeah, sometimes a little too far open. Hey, today's story is a fun one. A story with intrigue, divorce, financial ruin and amazing restoration. Not many of us would be willing to admit that for 15 years, we were busy striving to gain all the world had offer, but came up empty only to realize that without surrender, there really is no success.

God intersected our guest's life at a time when everything seemed hopeless. And that's where our story becomes really fun. Just like in the story of Joseph after much trial, humiliation and persevere. Kenny Hill saw God do amazing things in his work, personal and ministry life. Once he got started co-laboring with God.

Kenny started at Home Depot while in college and eventually rose to a much higher levels, but his favorite job was turning around the most troubled Home Depot in America. The one in Cascade, Georgia. Okay. I've rambled enough. Kenny Hill is here today, along with his wife. To share their story of how God rescued them and turned their home improvement store nightmare into one of miraculous impact and renovation, Kenny and Clarisa Hill.

Welcome to iWork4Him.

Kenny Hill: Welcome. And thank you for having us.

Jim: Yeah. It's it's fun. All right. Eh, you know, Kenny, when did you first meet first meet Jesus?

Kenny Hill: So actually I was raised in the church, so I remembered vacation Bible school when I was about eight years old. I gave my life to Christ. But somewhere around high school to college, I figured, well, I don't need all that church stuff.

So I figured I was gonna let education take me where I needed to go. So yeah, I, I did my own thing, but after college and beginning of my work career, God reminded me with a nice tap on the shoulder that I still needed to say. So I rededicated my life about six years into the 15 years of toil that I was experiencing.

Martha: And that toil started well, let's just say, when did you start working at Home Depot? Cause this is part of this story. So when did you start working there?

Kenny Hill: Yes, I actually started while I was a student in college. I started just a part-time. While I was in college and fell in love with the culture, fell in love with helping people and just never intended for it to become my career.

But that was God's plan for me. So it started in college and ended up being a one career career,

Martha: which is absolutely amazing that you have that story. But the first 15 years of that journey at home, Honestly, we're full of utter frustration for you. Why is that? And then tell us what part Psalm 127 plays in that.

Kenny Hill: Yes. So Psalm 127 just reminds us that unless the Lord builds the house, they, that labor build it in vain. And unless the Lord watches the city, the Watchman watching vain. So you can translate that to. Anything you're trying to do. If the Lord's not doing it, if you're not doing it with the Lord, then you're doing it in vain.

And I was trying to build a career. And when I look back mark, that it's really clear. I was suffering from rejection. I was - my mom was a single parent. Didn't have my dad in my life. So growing up, I was really focused on performing, trying to outpace the shame and the rejection of my past.

And I took that into a career in that if I would receive promotion, if I got a big title, if I was making lots of money and people were looking up to me, that would replace what I was missing on the inside. And that's what led to the 15 years of striving, striving only to never receive what I was attempting to gain.

So I was building the house of my career out of performance and the Lord was not in it.

Jim: When did you finally get to the end of your rope, which is when Clarisa comes into the picture when talk them about, because we often say on the show and we've often said it as teaching, is that until we get to the end of our.

We often don't realize that God's been holding out a rope to us all along gone. I got the rope right here. Why don't you just grab on my rope is better, but often we have to get to the end of our rope. Talk to us about that experience.

Kenny Hill: Yeah, Jim you're right. That's so true. I, I was at a crisis point where I had done everything that I could think of in my career.

I tried performance. I've tried networking and contacts, knowing the right people. I've tried, you know, everything that you can do in the business. And it wasn't working. And my careers was, was in a stalemate. It was a miserable place. And then my first marriage crumbled, it just, I didn't see it coming.

And so I found myself serving in my church, reading my Bible and praying every day, but just living in misery and I was like, something is wrong. And I needed to make an, I needed to change my perspective. At that time, I saw God as someone who was focused on accountability. He was someone focused on me doing the right things.

And if I earned through my efforts a blessing, then it was him to decided when that would happen and not having a father. I didn't know, God has a loving father. And so I had to come to the end of everything I was trying to do. To throw my hands up and say, this is not working. God, I need help. And he told me that I needed to refocus on love because that's where he is love.

And once I understood his love for me and, and I came to grips with that, then he gave me the charge of the challenge to go and represent him in my workplace. And that is when. I began to see that there was a whole different perspective than I'd ever learned in church that I'd ever tried to do on my own, that God was calling me to represent love in the workplace.

Martha: That's amazing that, you know, it seems like a simple lesson, but boy, you had to get, there was a lot that had to go into that. So hearing that firsthand is so great.

Jim: And you pull all that together. And in the end at the end of your rope, God says, not only am I going to teach you how to love at work.

Yeah. I'm going to teach you how to love and marriage. And that's when you met Clarisa and we're going to pick that story up and we'd come back right here. And iWork4Him as we're talking with Kenny and Clarisa Hill, she's been very patient. Don't worry, Clarisa. We're getting to you. You're listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

We talked with Kenny Hill, he's written his book about his story, and it's called Elevated: My Journey to Co-Laboring with God. And we're going to give away a copy a little later on this podcast, you got lots more of the story coming up right here. And iWork4Him. Hang on for just a second.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town we'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

The Awaken Podcast Network is the place to be. Go to Awaken Podcast Network.com. An unlock God's purpose for your work. With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today.

Go ahead. Check out Awaken Podcast Network.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend,

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. As we're talking with Kenny and Clarisa Hill about their story and how God wove together, their work in the learning, how to co-labor with God as they learned how to love each other.

Clarisa, you met Kenny somewhere between the end of Kenny's rope and his March forward into Home Depot and to learn how to love it home depot. Describe for us, how you two met and what you saw God doing in Kenny's life. When he was at that frayed end of his rope and getting a hand, hold on God.

Clarisa Hill: So Kenny and I met through a mutual friend and we initially just spoke on the phone for about a month before I would agree to meet him in person.

It was too much. So then, you know, we allow for the blind date to come to completion by actually meeting in person. And I guess that's the end of the story.

I know. Right. Very true. Very true. In the process of right meeting Kenny and then entering into the covenant relationship of marriage. I saw that he was definitely committed in his walk with God. And that was that's what was important to me that here you have somebody that is a true believer and that's going to walk out what God has called him to do.

And that was inspiring to me. And that helped me to even realize the importance of clarity. So you just don't take the word in, in what God is saying for just what it says, but we actually live it. So that's what I kept on watching and seeing him being faithful and committed to what God called him to do.

Martha: You know, that is it. It's amazing that you could see that in here, man. See God is stirring in his heart and everything. So what was it about Kenny that made you decide to marry?

Clarisa Hill: I think it was that I think I, I love to see that he was committed and faithful first to God, but then he also in many ways showed me that just the quality and integrity that he had as, as a man.

So who would turn that down? You know, a woman, once you realize that here you have somebody that's serious about his walk with God. But then also knows how to treat a lady and how to be a man of integrity. Then that was enough for me to say, okay, God, my eyes are open. You know, I have to make a decision and say, yes, you know, this is, this is somebody that I need in my life.

Jim: No, that's good. I like that. So, Kenny, you're not only got married to Clarisa. You also had this real major turnaround in how you decided to work at Home Depot. You decided to co-labor with God. At work at Home Depot. What was your position then? And what did that, what's it look like to co-labor with God?

Kenny Hill: So that's a good question. When I first got that assignment, Jim, I kinda said the same thing. What does that look like? Because I actually was trying to get out of Home Depot. My church had an opening in the youth ministry where I served, they had a full-time staff position and I applied. Thinking out.

Here's my way to get out of, you know, the frustration at Home Depot and the directors, all me, you know, we love you. You, you do a great job when you volunteer, go home and pray about it. And then if, if God's good with you, then come back and we'll, we'll get you in position. And I didn't even get all the way home.

Jim, before the holy spirit said, your job is your mission field. And I was just like, what in the world is at me? I said, and I, and I really, I, I say God people and China, people in Africa, they need missionaries because they haven't heard of Jesus to all these people around me. They've heard of Jesus. And he say, yeah, they've heard, but now they need to see, and your job is to go and let them see.

So that became my challenge to, to be love personified, servant leadership. Investing in those people around me. I was kind of at that time, I wasn't assistant manager over the operations in the store. So I had about 30 employees that reported to me and I made it my business to pour in and nurture, support those 30 individuals any and everywhere I could.

And it began to change. First thing that happens, it begins to heal my heart at that time, being a divorce from my first marriage, that was, that left a scar. And it was healing that when I would help someone else and serve someone else, it was healing me. So it became contagious because it was like therapy.

But the more I poured into my people, the more people wanted to be on my team. So now I have the privilege of being able to choose who I had on my team. So I got the first pick so to speak. And so my team started performing better and better. And so it created two things. Basically love became my brand within the company.

And then I became the person that people wanted to work for. So I, my career, God just elevated it tremendously beyond my expectations.

Martha: You know, I'm curious because you talk about co-laboring with God and that's part of the title of your book. And again, it's called Elevated: My Journey to Co-Laboring with God.

I was trying to read it all at the same time, but that's okay. And actually now's probably a good time to segue and let the listeners know that Kenny is willing to give away a copy of his book. Call our listener line at (866) 713-9675 that's 8 6, 6 7 1 3 work. And one person will be able to win a copy of that book.

So I'm curious about this word co-laboring like, so you, you, God was telling you just get love, basically that became your brand. But what did that mean for you to co-labor with.

Kenny Hill: Yes. That's an important market because you can't do that in your own strength, you know, because people are hard to love.

People don't believe in God, people don't want your help. So in an, in my, I started in my own strength trying to do that. And it's like, man, I, I can do this for a couple of hours, but it's still got a long way to go. But so I had to count on God to love through me. I had to count on. Believing and receiving his love for me.

And then it didn't matter. Someone didn't want my help or if they said, you know, I don't get away from me. I don't need your help or whatever. It didn't matter what their response was. I was consistently pouring out of what he had poured into me. And that's the co-laboring part it's so it's not just like I'm going to go and be super nice to everybody.

I run in. 'cause you know, that that's only gonna last so long, somebody's going to tell you they don't like your outfit. And then, you know, there goes your day, but when you have a heart for people, the way God has a heart for. When you see people beyond their role as an employee or a customer, you see that's a creation of God that he wants them to know that they're loved.

And he's sending you to be an extension of that. That's the co-laboring part that you're allowing God to use you.

Jim: So what did you see as the results? I mean, were you talking about, you started loving people at work of which many of them I'm sure at first were quite unlovable. What did you see God do with your new approach?

Kenny Hill: Transformation. I mentioned before the problems at that store location had to, it was, you know, any area you picked, it was at the bottom.

It was just, but it's, the transformation started with me investing in, loving on the staff and charging them to show that same concern and love for every. And we began to, so it transformed the, the interpersonal first and then the transactional part happened where the numbers, the sales, the profitability, all those other things came after that relational component was secure.

What we're here to serve. Anyone who shows up qualifies, then we're going to love on you.

Jim: So Clarisa, you're sitting there alongside of Kenny through all of this. What did you see changing in his life? And how did that impact your marriage? As he learned a lot of people at work, how did that impact you?

Clarisa Hill: Well, I definitely saw that. And even from the beginning, when we met that he had a servant's heart. So Kenny loves to give in and very attentive to other people. So, you know, that was a challenge. As you have a family and he's gone or he's missing, or, you know, he's committed himself to certain activities then you know, we had to balance that out without a doubt, especially having.

But it, it made me realize in and see the importance of getting out of your own bubble, getting out of your own existence. And that's what God has put us here on earth to be relational or to, to really see other people in it that we all have needs. And we all have, we have or we want people to recognize sometimes just beyond the superficial and just go.

Dig a little bit deeper and say that, oh, you know, I care or you don't, you're not having a good day. What else is going on in life? You want somebody to take that step? So I really grew in, in knowing that that's who he is and he's taught me the same thing. You Clarisa, you got to go beyond just a greeting or a smile and, you know, really get in tune with somebody else. Take the time.

Jim: When we come back, lots more with Kenny and Clarisa Hill, as they share more of the story we're going to get to hear about Clarisa's job. But we're also going to hear about Kenny's cushy job at the really the headquarters store and how he left it to go back to the toughest store in America.

You're listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. As we talked with Kenny and Clarisa. And it's all highlighted in Kenny's book, Elevated: My Journey to Co-Laboring with God, which we're going to give away a copy today, 8 6 6 7 1 3 96 75. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to iWork4Him as we're talking today with Kenny and Clarisa Hill about their story of how God worked in their lives. As, as God taught Kenny to co-labor with him at Home Depot. And then he gets to me Clarisa and the rest of the stories, what we're talking about today, Kenny, you were for the, for about a year, you got to the manager position at the Cascade, Georgia Home Depot, and then you got promoted to the cushy Cumberland Georgia store, which was a store where all the new stuff gets tried out for Home Depot.

And it was, it was like the highlight store of America. And then God says, okay, Kenny, I'm going to see how much he really trusts me. And you were offered. And at the cushy Cumberland, Georgia store, you were co general manager. Then you were offered full general manager of the store back in Cascade, Georgia.

It was a hot mess. And they wanted you to go back and take over that store. Why did you leave cushy Cumberland world and go back to Cascade Georgia and what happened?

Kenny Hill: Yeah. So that was a real test of my trust and my heart for others. Sometimes when God teaches us to love and see things the way he sees them, he'll test us to see if we're only doing it to our benefit, or as long as it benefits us or if we really have the servant's heart.

So when I left Cascade and arrived at Cumberland, it was like going to Disney. I mean everything's new still a lot of hard work, but just every benefit that the company could provide and almost a year to the day that I arrived, they had an opening back at the Cascade store and the leadership team said, you know what add initially, will you just go back until we find somebody to permanently take, take over?

And I said, I'll go back temporarily. And I went back and I quickly reminded. There's a lot of work to be done here. But as I started to do the work for my temporary term, God started dealing with my heart that this is where I said, this was your mission field, and you're not done with that. And I start looking at the lives of the people and that's what did it for me.

There were people there who still wanted promotion in their careers, but didn't have the ability to navigate that on their own. It's kind of like Jesus, when he described the people as sheep, without a shepherd they needed a leader to show them the way and not just a leader who was there just to do enough, to keep things from getting worse.

So when the time came for me to go back to Cumberland, I told my leader, you know what, I want to stay. I want to take this store on and I want to turn it around. And it was because God had dealt with my heart. Finishing the assignment of this mission field and it, it, the job wasn't complete. So I had an opportunity to turn my back on this assignment and try to go on, on my own, but I had to learn without him.

The first 15 years of my career reminded me that that's not the, that's not the decision to make. I needed him. I needed to co-labor with him for the rest of my career.

Jim: Yeah. Oh, we all have to be, we can learn that lesson. Most of us learned the hard way we could do it our way it doesn't ever work out.

Martha: Well, it, like you said, you can love somebody for a little while on your own with your own efforts and things like that, even. But you know, God gives us the ability to see what that a little bit more of that story when he's in charge and where he takes. So Clarisa, you are actually Dr. Clarisa Hill and you are an OBGYN, which that's just amazing.

I am, I can't even imagine all that you deal with on a daily basis, but as Kenny started to practice more of the, you know, his work being his ministry and that mission field and loving on people, how did that affect you in your work?

Clarisa Hill: I think it really served more as an example, like I mentioned before, Clarisa dig deeper, I'm used to treating physical elements and talking about what I can do from the medical aspect, but then there's the mind.

There's the soul, which is the emotions, the, the the source of a person, you know, what makes them up that sometimes, especially ladies, if you get them talking, they will talk. ,

I

Martha: have no idea what you're talking about!

Clarisa Hill: Right. But I learned to, you know, to inquire more about, Hey, what's going on in life and what are your plans?

And just dig a little bit deeper, more than, oh, you're here for your exam. Do you have any problems? What are your complaints? And what else do I need to refute refills? So I learned to right to, to open up is say, Clarisa, you're not only a position by title, but you're a Christian and you're a daughter of God and you believe in him and you love him.

So you love. So, whatever it takes to, to show them, I'm not only here functioning in the capacity of my job, but I'm, I'm actually engaged in to making sure that, okay, are you okay? Do we need to pray? Do we need to, to find a scripture that we'll both meditate on for you? You know, like together we'll do this, you know, basically like somebody of accountability.

So that's what I learned while watching Kenny and how he engaged with his with his, his work.

Martha: Well, and every woman listening is going, where are you located? Because I want you on my team as a doctor.

Jim: You can, you can plug your where you go to work or not. That's entirely up to you.

Kenny Hill: That was a long list of patients who, if you want to see her, it'll be like November.

Martha: But it'll be worth it.

Clarisa Hill: Hopefully. So I know God has been good and right. Just like he says, as he's given us so much grace, that you realize where he's brought you in your life and the patients that he's even taken with you. There you go. It's just like, okay, take that patience and give it away. You know, take that time and invest in somebody else's life and make sure that you're not only serving because this is your title or this is your job, but you are truly you're truly concerned and you want to show love.

You want to practice love and you want to be available. And vulnerable to a certain degree with, with another person.

Jim: Wow. I was going to ask you to, to just share a word of encouragement with best, but you just went right at and did that as a beautiful, I just love that. And like Martha said, there's a lot of women out there in the world that are going, I want an OBGYN just like Clarisa Hill.

Kenny final words of encouragement. There are so many people that look at retail with. No, I don't want to work retail and certainly a home improvement store, which is a little dirty, messy, and you know, the floors aren't, you know, don't have carpet, but you, they had a career of ministry at Home Depot that lasted over 30 years, speak some words of encouragement out there, let people know what's on your heart and why they should consider it on the same thing.

Kenny Hill: Yeah. It's wherever you are. You need to consider, has God placed you there or did you arrive there of your own? And your own power. And if God has placed you there, there are people around you who need what he's placed in you. They need your career fairs. There's so many times I prayed for people. I used to pray for my whole staff.

I get the sheet out and pray over each person and just hear the testimonies, Jim, or people coming back saying, you know what I was thinking about suicide. But something told me, no, they need you at work. So you can't do. I mean just God using intercessory prayer which to me is the, is the highest level of a servant leader when you actually intercede for those people who got places under you.

So wherever God has you, there's a reason. And if we take the focus off yourself for just a minute and say, guys, show me why you have me here and who you would have me to show your love to who you would have me to be an encouragement to that. The world, the marketplace is full of people who are starving and deprived of love and compassion.

And we're called to be light lightened. And so I want to encourage you to embrace the opportunity no matter where you are, if your job is one that's miserable, it's probably because you're focusing on yourself so much. If you take that focus off of yourself and focus on who around you that God could use you to encourage or support, then the job that you're doing this miserable will become a place that is peaceful.

Just be encouraged that where you are is just not by happenstance. You are assigned by God. And while you're on assignment, he has provisioned for you. And he has an assignment for you to reach somebody else.

Jim: I love that. Kenny and Clarisa Hill, thank you so much for being on iWork4Him today. Thanks so much for sharing your book Elevated: My Journey to Co-Laboring with God. Thank you.

Kenny Hill: You're welcome.

Jim: We encourage you to go out to, iWork4Him.com and join the iWork4Him nation. Make that commitment to praying for your coworkers and employees by name each and every day. Looking for ways to serve them over and above what your job requires you to do.

Looking for ways to be friend of them outside of the workplace, but looking for ways to pray with people when you notice they're having a rough day, but all on being a person of excellence, you guys did a great job. You said all of those points you didn't even know we had, and iWork4Him. Nation pledge.

It's fantastic. But you also brought up this other point, we've said this on the show a thousand, maybe 2000 times your workplace, it's your mission field. And in that mission field, you and me, we may be the only Jesus, our coworkers, our employees, our bosses may ever meet the job that we hold in. The work that we do, none of that is by chance.

You hold the people that you work with, none of that is by chance, the people that you work with you to meet Jesus, and you may be their only chance can increase a Hill. You've laid that out for us and made such a great example again, once again. Thank you for being an iWork4Him. Awesome. Thank you.

You've listened to iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers in our workplace. It's our mission field that ultimately iWork4Him.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field.

But for most of us, it looks like a construction site, the cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work with volunteering and best that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, please visit. iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the hours for him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review we'll launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online, iWork4Him.com. I worked the number for him. Dot com.

5/20/22 - Leading Like It Matters to God: Rich Stearns, Lead Like It Matters to God

Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, iWork4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian and do a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian Leadership Alliances Outcomes Conference Podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader together. Let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are excited to host the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you, our Outcomes Conference Podcast listener. We've got an incredible conversation coming up today with Rich Stearns of World Vision. Ring a bell? You're going to hear more about his time there and really a lot about his life.

As a leader, we'll be focusing on leadership, thriving and of course related outcomes. Rich, Stearns, welcome to the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

Rich Stearns: Hey, thank you so much, Jim and Martha, I've been looking forward to our conversation.

Jim: Yeah. Before we get started talking about your leadership roles and perspective of what God has done through you, as you lead a thriving environment and World Vision and your other organizations. Tell us how you personally keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered each and every day.

Rich Stearns: Well, you know, Jim, I think we all understand that discipleship and the growth in the Lord is a lifelong process. It's not a one and done kind of thing where, you know, you become a Christian and you're done.

And so it's a process. And you know, for me, it's always been about, you know, finding time to spend time with the Lord. Scripture and in prayer usually in the mornings. But also uh, you know, I think I would have to say fellowship with other Christians. You know, during my years at World Vision, I was really fortunate.

I think those of us that work in Christian ministry are very fortunate that we're surrounded by a team of committed Christians, right. To keep one another fresh and accountable and growing in the Lord. And we had literally had devotions every morning at World Vision with our small group. And then we had chapel every Wednesday.

Where we had worship time together as, as an organization. And so all of that serve to help keep me and the other leaders and folks at World Vision grounded in our faith. And you know, also just more privately or more personally, my wife and I are part of a couples Bible study group. And we have actually been in this group for more than 40 years now, it's been different groups because we've lived in different cities, but we've never gone a whole year where we weren't in kind of a peer group couples Bible study. My wife always says, I like these Bible studies because when I see the other men in the Bible study, I realize that you're not all that bad. She compares and says, well, you know, Rich isn't much, but you know, I'd probably rather have him than these other guys.

Jim: You know, I'm pretty sure Renee probably doesn't put it just that way, but you should give a shout out to Renee because she is the one who introduced you to Jesus.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. And you know, she's also a very important part of keeping me grounded and accountable as a human being and a follower of Jesus, because she's, she's always been kind of the bedrock of our family's faith.

And she leads women's Bible studies and, you know, she's in the word every day. And so you know, when your spouse sets pretty high expectations for you, that's a, that's, that's also a way of keeping you grounded and focused on the Lord. So...

Martha: That's so good. So thank you for sharing that. So as we talk about the word thrive, it can mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you personally? To thrive and just share that with us.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. You know, I think the, what I would talk about here is, is that when we are aligned with God's purposes for our lives. You know, when we all have a tendency to compartmentalize our lives, especially people that work in secular work.

Where, when you go to work, it, you know, it can feel like combat. It can be a difficult culture, it can be a cuss culture that's hostile toward your faith. And so I think there's always a temptation to compartmentalize and say, well, Lord, I'm going to keep that part of my life outside of my Christian faith.

And I'll be a Christian in the rest of it. But, but when we compartmentalize, we have this kind of discord in our lives and, and, and when. We're not aligned with God's purposes or we're not feeling God's affirmation in the same way we do when we kind of surrender our entire life to the Lord, a career, whatever it is, money, career relationships, et cetera.

So I think being aligned with God's purposes and understanding that our, our true purpose as followers of Christ is to be his ambassador. Wherever we work wherever we live. You know, 2 Corinthians 5:20 says we are therefore Christ ambassadors as though God is making his appeal through us.

And that always sends a chill up my spine. When I, when I read that verse, because I want to be a good ambassador, you know, and ambassadors but what did they do? They represent the character and the value. And the interests of the one who sends them. And so every Christian needs to think of themselves as an ambassador for Christ.

So but there's another side of thriving that I would just mention. And it's it's about balance in our lives, right? Balance between work and family, friends, church. You know, I like to say, if your life is your work and your work is your life, you probably aren't going to thrive as an individual because you live in a work dominated you know, reality.

And that that's not a healthy place to be for us. And, you know, workaholics, I think Christian ministry is really attractive to workaholics because they can say I'm just doing it for the Lord. You can say that to your kids. You can say that to your spouse. You can, you can say that to your friends.

Jim: You can say it to your divorce lawyer.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. But I'm just doing it for the, for the Lord. And, you know, the founder of World Vision back in 1950 was a workaholic. And after about 17 years into, you know, creating World Vision and, and building it into a kind of a nationally known organization, his life was so out of balance that he lost his marriage.

He lost a child to suicide. You know, he became estranged from his family any, and he literally had kind of an emotional breakdown and the board of directors fired him from his own ministry. And it just a really tragic story of what happened because his life got out of balance. So I think I think if you're going to thrive in your work, you need to put it in perspective and, and have the appropriate balance in your life between your work and your, your home life, your, your church responsibilities., family. So...

Jim: rich, you've had kind of a story. You've got you really, your career has been a storied career. I mean, you spent the last 20 years or so with World Vision as the president. And but before that you were also over CEO at Parker Brothers and Lenox who makes china. You know, what a great, how about a job where you get to play games all day? I just think that's fantastic. I must've just been great playing games all day at Parker Brothers. Yeah, I'm sure that's probably what it was or eating on fine china in the lunch room. That's probably at a crystal glasses in the conference room. I'm sure that's what.

Rich Stearns: You know that th that Parker Brother's job, Jim, I was 25 when I went to work for Parker Brothers, and I thought I'd died and gone to heaven because here I am, I'm still a kid.

Right. And I'm being paid. I literally, it was being paid to play games and to invent new games and, you know, come up with new games. So that was it, a lot of ways, a dream job. And I don't know if you ever saw the movie Big. Well, the whole thing is Tom Hanks - he was a kid in an adult body. And he kept getting promoted because they thought he was a genius because he understands, understood kids and what kids would buy.

And I felt like that movie was kind of the story of my life, that I was still a kid. And, you know, I just had instincts about what kinds of games and toys kids would play with. And so I had these ideas that became successful and I got promoted. I ended up being CEO of that company when I was still a kid, I was 33.

And but it was kind of that fun job. Th it was just a ball.

Jim: Just a sideline, we want to know - take credit for. What's one thing that you green-lighted at Parker Brothers that still is around today? That was an idea that you're like, I love that idea that will work.

Rich Stearns: Well. I don't know if you've ever played the word game Boggle. It's it's, it's a pretty popular word game. And we introduced that in the late 1970s. I did the ad campaign for it and it's still around today. Another little point of trivia. The first home star wars video game was published by Parker Brothers in 1982. I believe it was. And and I was the one that kind of negotiated for the star wars license for home video games. And we did several star wars video games back then.

Jim: But that was probably for atari.

Rich Stearns: It was for Atari. And we also did Frogger. We brought Frogger to the market.

Jim: Now see, that was way more successful than the star wars game Frogger was actually, frogger was huge. Okay. When we come back, we've got to talk about thriving cultures, because what you learned at Parker Brothers, then you went to Lenox and then you eventually went to worldvision.

I want to know what you learned from each one of those to create a thriving culture network. We're talking with Rich Stearns today on the Outcomes Conference Podcast, don't go away. There's a lot coming up.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town we'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

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Jim: And welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast, where your host Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Today, we're talking with Rich Stearns, the president emeritus of World Vision. You can check him out online because you don't know about them - worldvision.org, worldvision.org.

All right. Rich, you were the CEO of Parker Brothers. You brought Frogger to market. I think that's fantastic people that are our age are going to go. I love playing Frogger. I saw more frogs die on the screen. All right. Then you went to Lenox, China, Lenox, which makes China and crystal.

And then eventually to World Vision where you spent over 20 years of your career, what did you learn from each one of those experiences to how you were able to bring a thriving culture to your 20 years at world vision?

Rich Stearns: You know let me just start by talking a little bit about World Vision, because I learned a lot about thriving culture at World Vision.

World vision helps the poorest people on the planet. We work in a hundred countries with some of the poorest communities ever, and these are people that are not thriving. I mean, people who are trapped in poverty are, are not, are not thriving. And, but one thing we learned about helping people to thrive was what you have to do with poor people is help them see and realize, and then release their own God-given abilities and talents. You know, poor people aren't different from us. They're creative, they're, they're hard working. They're they're, you know, they're they like to have fun. They, they like laughter and fellowship and friendship, and they have all of the same abilities that, that we who have more opportunities have.

They just haven't had the opportunity to. Because of the environment they find themselves in. And so they often have low self-esteem because life has kind of beaten them down. You know, they, they feel like failures. So World Vision's whole strategy is to help restore the dignity of the poor and to help replace their hopelessness, their sense of hopelessness with a sense of hope.

And so we, we like to say, instead of giving handouts to the poor we like to give them a hand. We want to help them believe that they are made in the image of God and that they have been endowed with many gifts and talents and that if they can just release those gifts, they're there. They're going to be able to kind of beat the poverty that they're trapped within.

They're going to be able to solve the problems in their own community. And so we invest a number of years in a community helping them to realize their God given potential, you know, the worst thing that a charity can do. For the poor or to the poor is to reinforce the narrative that they're failures, who can't take care of themselves.

You know that's the narrative that's playing in their head that we, you know, we're failures. We can't do this. We're not smart enough. We're not good enough. And so that's the worst thing a charity can do is to reinforce that by just giving things to them, you know, you can't care for yourself, so here's some food you can't care for yourself.

So here's, you know, X, Y, or Z. And now obviously in a relief situation, when people are desperate or the refugees, you, you have to do some handouts, but ultimately you want to get them on the track of self-sufficiency. And so when World Vision leaves a community, after more than a decade of partners, Those community members are like brimming with hope and optimism because they have now become leaders in their own communities.

And they're solving their own problems. A woman might be running the water committee that manages the new water point. And you know, a man might be managing a farmers cooperative where, you know, he's with 25 other farmers working cooperatively to bring their crops to market, to get a better price.

All of a sudden, they believe in themselves again. And so just an amazing picture of what it means for human beings to thrive that I saw through the work of world.

Martha: You know, I just see such a huge connection between what you just explained and what we can do every day in the workplace that we are in. Right. We live, we work in cultures that where people may not be thriving, maybe the leadership isn't empowering people, the way that you just talked about with World Vision. You know, challenging us every day to help those around us, to, to reach their potential and to thrive what a great leadership thing that we can all take a look at.

So thank you for sharing that with us. So Rich, give us just a little bit of background. So people kind of know where you're at in your life right now. How long ago did you retire from your your, your time at world vision?

Rich Stearns: So I've been retired now just a little over two years. And so, you know, that's after kind of working for 44 years full time in, in the various companies you've already mentioned in 20 years, last 20 years at World Vision. So it's been about a little over two years that I've been retired.

Jim: So, but your, you as a president emeritus, you're still at board meetings, you're still involved in, in some of that advising role, isn't it?

Rich Stearns: Well, I'm not at board meetings, you know we, we, we decided it was best to make a clean break. We between myself and my successor and so that he can really be all that God's calling him to be at World Vision.

But I as president of emeritus, I, you know, I still do a little speaking on behalf of World Vision and, and I do a little executive coaching as well. But just Saturday night, my wife and I spoke to a virtual fundraiser a group of women. Portland Oregon area, you know, had a fundraiser for World Vision.

We, we have these groups around the country called women of vision who advocate and raise money for projects around the world. And so Renee and I were speakers at their, at their virtual banquet, if you will. It was a banquet without food, but it was, but it was a, it was a great meeting. I think they had close to 200 people on the call.

Jim: Yeah. If we, if we could just figure out the virtual food thing, I think that make the virtual environment a lot better. All right. So you, you retired, obviously you're not done working, but you retired and then we hit Covid. And the world changed. I would say it, you know, dramatically, drastically the world's changed drastically.

What was your greatest challenge heading into retirement, trying to see. Okay. God, what's next? What was your greatest challenge you face in these past 12 to 18 months?

Rich Stearns: Well, you know, first of all when COVID hit, I, I thanked my I thank the Lord and my lucky stars. I was no longer having to be a leader in the middle of this kind of catastrophic global event, because you know, the thing about COVID 19. And I don't know if I think people do understand this, but you know, there has never been an event that has affected every organization and leader on the planet. Simultaneously. The only thing you could point to might be the, the Noah flood. That affected the whole world. But when you think about human history, there, there's literally never been an event that affected every leader in the world simultaneously and presented those leaders with unbelievable challenges.

Right? So I don't care if you're the principal of a school or you're, you're, you're a pastor or you're a CEO of an organization, whatever your leadership responsibility was and is a, you were faced with some really, really difficult circumstances and decisions. And so. You know, as kind of watching this from the sidelines and doing a little bit of coaching of some other leaders there were a couple of things that I felt that leaders really needed to focus on during this.

And one was encouragement, right? So this is a very discouraging time. And, and you've got people who are working from home. They they're missing the fellowship. They normally have in the works. The ability to lift one another up and build relationships and those kinds of things in the workplace.

So they're working from home. They're feeling very disconnected probably from the work and the ministry, if it's a ministry. And so it's the leader's job to try to lift their spirits, to, to kind of encourage them, to help them. Maybe cast a vision for what it's going to be like, how we're going to get through this and what the light at the end of the tunnel looks like.

And to sustain that hope, to sustain hope and belief and, and to keep the fabric of the organization, you know, still functioning and together. So you know, encouragement, I write about this in my new book, that encouragement is like a wonder drug for a leader that when you, as a leader, Encourage and affirm the people that work for you.

It just works wonders. I mean, they, their self-esteem grows and they, they feel more confident and th that they'll actually work harder because, you know, you're, you're acknowledging their contributions and you're encouraging them. And you're, you're, you're talking to them about their giftedness and you know, what a good idea you had.

And boy, you're really creative and you know, so encouragement, especially in a time like this is important. And then the other thing. Culture building. Right? So one of the things I worry about for leaders is how do you create and sustain culture when you're not together, but

Jim: I want you to hold on to that thought you got to come to a break, but I want to, I want to, I want you to, I want you to hold on to that.

Cause then we really want to talk deeply about your book: Lead Like It Matters to God you're listening to the outcomes conference pod. With today, we've got Rich Stearns the president of emeritus of World Vision, online World Vision dot. We'll be right back with more of the Outcomes Conference Podcast.

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Welcome back to the Outcomes Conference Podcast. Today we're talking with Rich Stearns as Martha and I are really intrigued by the conversation. We really want to get into your book that you just released Lead Like It Matters to God. But Rich, you were talking about culture right before we went to the break.

Rich Stearns: Yeah. So just in this whole context of thriving and being in an, in an environment where, in the culture where we can't be together, like we are used to, what do you have to say? Well, yeah, I think, you know, one of the chief responsibilities of a leader is to shape and create the culture of that, that their team works in.

So you could be a leader at various different levels in an organization. So whatever. Your team is you know, working where they're working. You're the, you're the culture, shaper and creator, and all know that leaders can create toxic cultures, negative cultures and they can create positive cultures in which people can thrive and flourish.

And so I write a fair amount about this in my new book that it's so important for leaders to create a culture of thriving now in COVID. That's harder to do because you know, you might have zoom meetings that you've got 20 people in. You're trying to make a decision, but what you miss is the day-to-day interpersonal react interactions with people.

Jim: Yeah. The water, the water cooler talk. You miss the water, the water cooler talk.

Rich Stearns: You know, about the, you know, what happened to the sports team over the weekend, or, you know, whatever. But I know the World Vision culture was, was a very powerful culture and strong culture. And, and again, to try to maintain that at a distance is challenging.

And so I think leaders have to come up with new techniques new kinds of gatherings, you know virtually where they can celebrate and, and deepen the culture of the organization and sustain it as well. And I also think that leaders during COVID. Need to break away from some of the group meetings, which can be very stifling they're necessary, but they can be very stifling and do more one-on-one sessions with their team because.

That personal attention between the leader and the lead is also very important in terms of building self-esteem and, and building their confidence and, and, and just, you know, communicating well and keeping short accounts and you know, with expectations. So I think those are a couple of things that people should be thinking about doing as long as the lockdown, you know, continues, which it still is in many companies.

Martha: So we want to, first of all, congratulate you for writing what is being honored as Christian Leadership Alliance, book of the year Lead Like It Matters to God and what a great title. And I want to get really kind of personal right at the beginning. And Rich, Stearns, as you were writing this book lead, like it matters to God. What was God showing you about your, your leadership?

Rich Stearns: It was an interesting process of writing the book and, you know, I've written several books before and sometimes I've described the process is when you write a book, it's like cleaning your attic. Right? So a lot of us, a lot of us put a lot of junk in the attic.

You know, we don't know what to do with this stuff. So we put it in the attic and, you know, we've out of sight out of mind. And every once in a while you know, you might go up there and say, I got to clean this attic out and straighten out in. And so ideas are the same way you, you have these ideas and experiences.

They're floating around your attic, right? They're they're up there, but they're not in a coherent form where they're not very organized. And so writing a book like this on leadership after 40 plus years as a leader in, in different organizations was a very cathartic process for me of cleaning my cleaning and organizing my attic and, you know, trying to distill the learning and the experiences of those 40 plus years into something that might be useful to other people, you know, ideas that might be useful to other people. And so what came out of that was this this notion of values driven leadership that, you know, the realization that, you know, when the Lord looks back at my life, he is not going to be impressed with, you know, 20 consecutive quarters of earnings growth at Lenox while we.

You know, the, the Frogger game that I introduced at Parker Brothers, you know, the Lord is going to be much more concerned about how I cared for the people under my leadership. The people in my circle, not just at work, but my family, my friends, my, my Bible study group by my church fellow church goers.

You know, those are the questions that God is going to be asking us, you know, on that day, are those are the things that he's going to be celebrating on that. And it's not going to be about our success. It's going to be, it's not going to be about all of our achievements. It's going to be about our faithfulness.

You know, I tell a story in the book of mother Teresa, who was once asked if she felt like a failure, because poverty in Calcutta was worse then than it was when she started her ministry there. And she said, this classic line, she said God did not call me to be successful. He called me to be faithful.

And so essence of this book on leadership is that as a leader, Don't drink the success Kool-Aid successes. Okay. It shouldn't be your goal though. I don't drink that. Kool-Aid be faithful. Be faithful. Be faithful. You might be successful as well. And you probably will be. If you're faithful to the Lord, you'll probably have success in other dimensions, but that's the essence of, the message of the book. And I write about these 17 values.

Jim: Okay. You got these 17 values, right? It's just what I was going to say. Thanks for great segue. As we talked with Rich Stearns, they were talking about his brand new book. That is the CLA book of the year Lead Like It Matters to God. You mentioned the 17 values in the book.

If you had to focus on the top three, maybe just give me the top two, what would they be?

Rich Stearns: Well, yeah. So if character is what matters, if our carrier Christian character, it is our witness. First of all, our character is our witness and our characters shapes the cultures in which we work and our values that we communicate to people shape what we work.

I wrote a chapter each on 17 different values that I think are important for Christian leaders to embrace. And so if I had to pick the top two or three, the first two are surrender and sacrifice. And when I was writing the book, my wife said, are you sure you want to write a leadership book where the first two chapters are surrender and sacrifice.

Who's going to read that book? Who's going to read chapter three after that, you know, and maybe you should start with, you know, success and wealth or fame or something like that because people read leadership. Typically because they want to be more successful, but so surrender to me, that's just so important for our Christian leader.

We, we, we enter our Christian faith by surrendering our lives. Lord, we surrender to the Lord, but as I said earlier, sometimes we compartmentalize and we don't fully surrender our career. Or there might be maybe it's our money. We don't fully surrender. The starting place for any Christian leader is to say, Lord, I am all in it.

My career is yours to do with, as you, please, my life has to do with what you please do as, as you plays and I am fully surrendered to you. And when you do that, it actually lets you release a lot of the stress and pressures of work because you've already given it to the Lord, right? It's like, well, it's your career Lord.

If, if you're going to let it shipwreck, that's okay. That's up to you. If you're going to help me become a CEO, that's okay. That's up to you as well, but it's, it's, it's, it's over to you because I'm just here to be obedient and to follow and to do the best I can. So I would say surrender is my number one value.

If you're not surrendered it makes it hard for the Lord to work through you and with you.

Jim: You said that sacrifice would be your number two. Give a real quick example. What sacrifice looks like before we get to the end of the podcast.

Rich Stearns: Well, well, when I surrendered my career and surrender, I say it's a daily process.

I mean, I think we have to almost daily surrender to the Lord. Again, it's not a one and done, but, so I tried to do that in my career to surrender to the Lord. And I had a few times, I, as you know, I got fired twice. I write about that in the book. And both of those times where the Lord showing me you're not surrendered enough.

No, you're not surrendered enough to me. And so finally, you know, after I had an 11 year run at Lenox and CEO and a lot of success. The Lord called me to World Vision and basically said, all right, if you're surrendered, I want you to quit your job. Quit your career. I had my Rich young ruler moment, right?

Sell everything you have and give it to the poor and come and follow me, and then you'll have treasure in heaven. And so that was a really difficult moment in my life. And my wife of course said, we need to go where God wants us to go. And. I quit my job. I quit my career. We took a 75% pay cut. We had five kids.

We moved from Pennsylvania to Seattle. And but that's what surrender meant for me at that moment that if I'm really surrendered, then I, I listened to the Lord and I'll follow him even if it seems costly and his promise to the Rich young ruler that you will have treasure in heaven. Those next 20 years for my work at World Vision.

Th they were a treasure, they were a treasure. I shutter to think if I turn that job down, I would have missed out on the greatest years of my life.

Martha: You know, and what's exciting is that there are 15 more in, in your list of 17 that we can learn from in your book, which I want to encourage everybody to listen or read is lead.

Like it matters to God and it's values driven leadership in a success driven world. So, thank you so much for sharing about your book and, and giving us a little peek into a couple of the topics.

Jim: Yes. Thank you to Rich Stearns from World Vision president emeritus of World Vision. Thank you. Rich Stearns for being on the outcome's conference podcast today.

Rich Stearns: Hey, thanks.

Jim: And to you, our Outcomes Conference Podcast listeners. Thanks for joining us today. We hope and pray that the podcast was an inspiration. You do. I doubt I don't doubt it at all. We're always looking to inspire you to a higher and deeper thinking and thriving for a greater kingdom impact. Be sure to visit Christian Leadership Alliance, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the Christian Leadership Alliance, higher thinking blog.

And if you're not already at Christian Leadership Alliance member, what are you waiting for? Join the Alliance today, Christian Leadership Alliance.org.

Martha: And remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it with a friend today.

Jim: Well, I'm Jim

Martha: I'm martha, we'll see you again for the next episode of the outcomes conference podcast.

Rich Stearns: Did you

Martha: know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field.

But for most of us, it looks like a construction site, the cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work with volunteer and, and best that is your mission field. To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the, iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, please visit. iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work to join the hour for him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review we'll launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at, iWork4Him and online. iWork4Him.com. I Work the number 4 Him. Dot com.

5/13/22 - Restoring the Dignity of Vocation: Jonathan Nowlen, Metron Manager

Intro: Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, I work for am radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian into a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: You've tuned into iWork4Him, mouthpiece for the faith and work movement. We're your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg.

Martha: Thanks for joining us today. You know, I wanted to point your attention to some resources we have on our website that you may not have ever found before. But if you go to our bookstore, you can actually download the first chapter of each of our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him. It's a great way to see if that's a resource that's meant for you or for someone that you know, but go ahead and download that first chapter for free, and then you can purchase the book right there as well.

But we just, I always want to point you to new resources, things that you may not know are out there and want you to take advantage of.

Jim: That's iWork4Him.com/bookstore. Over the last nine years, we've introduced the iWork4Him, audience to hundreds of ministries, focused on helping all of us to connect our faith and our work and live it out in full living color for all those around us, to be blessed and to be a part of what God is doing in our lives.

About a year ago, I was made aware of a new ministry that had formed in the amazing bastion of Christian faith, Northwest Arkansas. For those of you that don't know Northwest Arkansas was founded by Sam Walton of Walmart and then JB hunt, trucking and Tyson foods. Each of these powerful organizations founded on biblical principles.

In actuality, Northwest Arkansas just feels like a safe place to be. It's not Mayberry, but it's a very nice place to raise a family. Jonathan Nowlen was called in Northwest Arkansas and is launched Metron Manager, a ministry dedicated to you the Christ center workplace. And their mission is to provide training resources and theology that will recover the dignity and mission of vocation and your life.

Jonathan is here to explain all of that. Jonathan Nowlen, welcome to iWork4Him.

Jonathan Nowlen: Well, it's great to be on the program, Jim and Martha, really looking forward to this and it's an honor.

Jim: Thanks Jonathan. You didn't live the normal life of an average American growing up in a city or a suburb or on a farm. Where did you grow up?

Jonathan Nowlen: It's a good question. You know, my folks were career missionaries and that's all, I pretty much remember growing up, we spent a large amount of my childhood all the way up through, into high school in Saipem Guam. And most of the 1980s and beliefs where my folks are pioneering a large mission training center for Youth with a Mission.

You know, we literally built a college campus in the jungle from the trees that were growing on the property. It was a great adventure growing up.

Martha: Wow. So yes, that is not an experience that most of us have had, but even though your parents were missionaries, when did Jesus intersect your life?

Jonathan Nowlen: You know, growing up in a mission community, you're, you're very aware of God.

It's from my earliest memory. But there's a big difference between knowing about God and knowing God. And so through a crazy set of circumstances, nearly dying on a jungle Trek that we were doing. I had a really powerful conversion and repentance experience when I was around 12 years old and I was a changed kid overnight, totally different person.

Jim: So how did all of that change your trajectory in life when Jesus intersected with you at 12 years?

Jonathan Nowlen: Well, I'd always known that I had a call to mission work, even from when I was really young, there was another American kid that I grew up with in Belize in the jungle. And we used to joke that we'd basically been ruined for the ordinary.

And there were only two real paths available, available for us, you know, either a missionary or a Marine. And I grew up to a missionary and he became a Marine. So there was no other choice.

Martha: Wow. What today you're in Northwest Arkansas. So what is, how did that - how did your life lead you to there if you were growing up in Belize?

Jonathan Nowlen: Oh, wow. A lot of ground to cover between those stages. It's a long story, but over the first half of my mission career, I was with Youth with a Mission and I'd worked in about 60 countries doing every kind of mission and relief work imaginable. And I've written books about those since. But particularly I was focused on working in the former Soviet union after the fall of the wall, that whole era in the nineties, but in 2007, through 2019, my wife and I helped establish a massive project that was officially working in the university system in China with a mandate to raise up the next generation of top students to become servant leaders of integrity.

It was an incredible project and we partnered with an amazing local, a set of believers who are heading up this effort. And we ended up impacting the lives of over 90,000 people in China and in the U S and around the world. So we ended up moving with west Arkansas to partner with the church here and really build out and conduct a flagship version of our program that would work in the U S or a Western context.

It was a great season of ministry, and we landed here to do that at the university of Arkansas and had a really great runway.

Jim: But God's got you up to something new and fresh. I started hearing about it a couple of two, three years ago, you call it Metron Manager. We all can find it online at metronmanager.com.

Why don't you tell us about it?

Jonathan Nowlen: Well, it started, really got traction, I would say at the end of 2019, when my book came out called Managing your Metron: A Practical Theology of Work, Mission, and Meaning. And late in 2019, God made it really clear. No. It was time for me to step aside from my long-time role as the executive director of that organization and launch a new ministry based on the book and the concepts that I've been building out in the book.

And it was definitely the Lord's timing. Sadly, our previous organization, it didn't survive. The negative impacts of COVID the university closures, political tensions with the U S and China, and God knew what was coming and gave us an opportunity. To step aside and launch a new project without even knowing COVID was coming.

It was just right at his timing. And over the last few years, you know, we've gone all in on equipment, your project, really dealing with missionized theology of work, practically helping people recover the dignity and mission of vocation. And I, you know, I better pause and explain the word Metron cause probably a lot of the audience don't know what that word means.

A lot of folks don't know. And it's, it's important. It's a framework word in scripture, you know, the apostle Paul, when he wrote in to the Corinthians, he was describing his sphere of responsibility, addressing what was in and what was out of his metron, outside of his sphere. And in 2 Corinthians 10:13, he says, talking about his own ministry in himself: we however will not boast beyond measure, but within the limits or the sphere, the metron which God has appointed us, that word sphere, the limits of the sphere is Metron. And that's where we get this concept that it's fundamental level. And I've built out a, like a general language version or definition of this that I use in my book.

And I say, it's a measure of responsibility, delegated by God, to you in the midst of creation, culture and spiritual history.

Jim: The practical side of that, and how that applies to everyone. Listening to this podcast, we're going to get in on our next segment. You're listening to, iWork4Him with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg checkout, Jonathan online MetronManager.com. Metron Manager.com. Don't go away. We'll be right back.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around. Well lean in because here's a message from that kind of person. The Awaken podcast network is the place to be go to awakenpodcastnetwork.com, an unlock God's purpose for your work.

With help from some friends, you will find a gathering place of podcasts that provides simple tools, faith stories, and conversations that will inspire and equip you to vibrantly live out your faith in your work today. Go ahead. Check out awakenpodcastnetwork.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend,

Jim: Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him. As we talk today with Jonathan Nowlen, from Metron Manager, you can check them out online, Metronmanager.com. MetronManager.com.

Martha: Jonathan, I want you to really dig into explaining now that you've explained what Metron means. What does Metron Manager do? Like what is the concept? And as far as activities or, you know, just what are you producing what's happening?

Jonathan Nowlen: Yeah, that's a good question. Took, I took a while to try to figure out what are the needs that people have, because there's a lot of work. Christians in the workplace who are missional, they care about the great commission. They have an on mission mindset, but really I found that not a lot of people were engaging them or developing them or equipping them.

What I discovered was there was a need for training and equipping. So the Metron Manager podcast became a feature of that. How to develop people, my book and curriculum, and then a big one that's emerged as organizing what I call marketplace mission consultations, where we just pull together people who care about the great commission care about their faith impact in their workplace.

And we gathered them together in a supportive community. And, you know, we're coaching doing that on one-on-one or in small groups. And it's been really fruitful. So we're able to serve redemptive entrepreneurs, great commission companies and help people be really intentional. And on, on mission impact is the focus.

Jim: So you're, you're working specifically with business owners or people that run organizations and helping them to be intentional and living out their faith.

Jonathan Nowlen: I mean, it's the whole gamut. Yeah. It's the whole gamut. There's a lot of great commission companies, people out here in Northwest Arkansas that are running companies that are really intentional, really focused there, built these things to advance the kingdom of God and they need some support. They need some resourcing, they need some networking. We found that a lot of these folks are very siloed. There's good people in all these companies, businesses, non-Christian companies at all.

But they just don't know each other. They need to be equipped and drawn out and connected even in a small region like ours. So the consultations have proved to be really valuable to build this strength and unity and commitment. I think we had 12 companies represented at the last consultation, so, and they didn't, most of them never met each other, even heard of each other.

Martha: Wow. This has been really valuable, you know, it's so encouraging when you, when you are living in a city and not knowing of other things that God is doing, even within the city. Is what is happening with Metron Manager only in Northwest Arkansas?

Jonathan Nowlen: No, actually I didn't even really start it here. Initially. I have kind of a more national national ranger scope just because of my previous ministry that was helping people around the country, on these topics. And a lot of it is being done remotely during COVID. But now that COVID is over, people really want to gather back together in groups and community.

We've developed a lot of local tracks. So I'm still doing stuff on traveling next week, we still travel and do this. We still offer things widely, but we're really digging deep on our local community and trying to help build a model here and really serve the local equation in this region.

Jim: So give us, give us a practical example without mentioning names of, of how you come alongside, do this consultation, as you say, and help somebody be a more effective in being a kingdom company or kingdom organization. Give it, just give us some example.

Jonathan Nowlen: Well, a lot of it revolves around what I call recovering the dignity and mission of vocation. Even believers in the workplace, don't have a framework for understanding. Work is not a result of sin or the fall that it was pre fall that God gave us the original commission to work.

And so just even establishing a fundamental baseline that it is okay, you're not in some form of sin or disobedience or second tier level obedience to really lean into your vocation and go all in on advancing the kingdom of God. Doing things God's way in that space. So I really come in and help them identify what are the people, places and spaces that you are delegated by God in your Metron, what's your sphere.

And then what are the blockages or what are the limits that are, are stopping you from impact? Some of that's practical, but honestly, most of it is theological, spiritual, philosophical and also tactical on what ways of God need to be implemented in my space to move the needle towards the kingdom of God.

And that is an area I can help them in. And then once they've got that, they get freed up and they become much more effective and much more hope and joy filled in what they're doing. It's pretty exciting.

Jim: You're just dealing with people at the top level of organizations or people at midlevel.

Jonathan Nowlen: I meet with everybody from aspiring young college students, all the way to business owners and it's the whole gamut.

And I've found that no matter what is in your metron the same principles theology and practice applies. If you're a stay at home mom and your vocation is raising kids, or you're the president of a country, the same things need to be applied to manage that metron in the kingdom of God. And so it's across the board framework.

That's relevant, just has different expressions for people.

Martha: So you have a podcast by the same name, Metron Manager.

Jim: It's featured on the Awaken podcast network, awakenpodcastnetwork.com where you can find a hundred titles all focused on helping you live out your faith anatd your work Awakenpodcastnetwork.com.

Martha: Sorry you had that little break commercial, commercial break right there. And you know, we're, we're so grateful that you have a podcast that we can have on the Awaken podcast network, because it is a place where people can find where whatever, you know, niche they may be in or something that speaks to them. So to the listener that is curious, what is your podcast?

What does it focus on? What are you talking about there?

Jonathan Nowlen: You know, it started out as a way to expound on topics that were touched on in my book, but there wasn't room to contain in the book started really building out some discussion, some big ideas. In the book I create and lay out an entire misseology for the marketplace,

study and practice of missions, sociology study, and practice of missions. But what does that look like to the guy working at Tyson? You know, how does that apply? Is there a narrative in scripture that underpins. Him and his calling or someone in a different company or an missional entrepreneurs. So unpacking some really big topics, which then led to a focus on interviewing people who are actually doing this, who are practitioners.

Some are aspiring practitioners. Some of them have had great experiences. Some have had terrible experiences and just working through the. Aims to be redemptive and try to be redemptive in your space with people, places, and spaces around you. Some of them are pioneering, a redemptive companies in Africa.

Some of them are working in difficult corporate roles. Some of them are advancing the kingdom through technology and digital church expressions, but really just growing people's understanding of what the great commission means and how it can actually be engaged in. By an individual in the workplace because that's not taught on very often.

You usually are told you've got to quit your day job and go be a missionary. If you want to do missional things. Right. And that's not, that's not an accurate biblical message. So trying to course correct that and empower people.

Martha: So give it to, we have time for a quick story?

Jim: When we come back, we have a time for a story. What do you want him to share when we come back?

Martha: I do. I want you to share with us a story of somebody whose life was transformed when they understood how much God loved their work.

Jim: We'll be right back or more on iWork4Him with Jonathan Nowlen, from Metron Manager, online Metronmanager.com

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This workshop is 100% free. And you can reserve your spot by going to GiANT.tv/iWork4Him. If you're ready to impact people and get paid to do it, go to GiANT.tv/iWork4Him. That's GiANT.tv/Work4Him. Hey, welcome back to iWork4Him as today. We talk with Jonathan Nowlen from Metron Manager.

What's a metron you say? Well, Jonathan, what's a metron again?

Jonathan Nowlen: It's your sphere of responsibility that God's delegated to you that affects the people, places and spaces in your life.

Jim: Metronmanager.com.

Martha: So, Jonathan, do you have a story you can share with us as somebody who once they understood how much God really cared about their work, that what kind of transformation might've happened in their life?

Jonathan Nowlen: You know, the, when I, when I think about this, the story that comes to mind is where I really saw a wide scale impact of this year in Fayetteville. You know, I got asked to speak on on theology of work. Just hadn't been a topic we'd covered a lot. And there was a lot of interest around this and. I don't speak very often at my church.

It's very rare, but I got asked to speak on this topic and I didn't know how this would go over at all. And this was totally new. So I shared on just the basics, like 20 minutes on the basics of theology of work, recovering the dignity and the mission, the purpose of vocation, how it fits in the kingdom of.

And I kid you not. I got off the stage after the first the first service and I looked behind me and I had a row of almost 70 people lined up to talk to me before the worships was done at the end of the service. I'd never seen anything like this at my church. So there was a guy pulling on my sleeve and trying to talk to me during the worship time.

And it he's whispering in my ear. It turns out he's a president of a pretty significant university in our region and he sees. He's just verbally processing with me during worship about how this has just brought a reset, this message to what he's trying to do. His students at the university, how to capsulate the need they have and how impactful it was for him.

And then the next person that grabs me is this young gal. She looks like she's probably in her forties, but she's like 19 has no teeth. She's just gotten off meth. And she, she grabs me and she's like, I just got my first job working at McDonald's and she said, and I've just become a Christian, you know, I'm off of drugs.

She's like, I didn't think my life mattered at all. There was no purpose to what I was doing. She's like, this is totally reset my life. She's like, I can't wait to get back to work. And I started talking. This line of people and I kid you not after the second service, a group of 30 people followed me to my car in the parking lot, trying to talk to me.

I had like lawn mowing companies. I had immigrants. I had a different company reps that were out there and try to talk to me about getting in my car. I've never experienced anything like this and what God showed me in the. And vacuum the loss that's in the body of Christ right now that there is this loss of purpose, this loss of meaning this disconnect from God's original design, from the original commission to work and to bring transformation into creation.

And this was, this was as impactful for me as it was for these folks that talk to me, I've never had an experience like it before, or since.

Martha: Well, you know, one of the things that it makes me think of is that this message is very life-giving because it, you no longer are just punching a time clock. You know, when you understand that God has given you a sphere of influence that you are responsible for in your work and that it matters for the kingdom, then you have purpose.

We all want purpose, don't we, Jim?

Jim: Well, and so often, Jonathan, as you mentioned earlier on in the show that we run into people that think that in order to make a difference for God, they need to quit their jobs and go work in a church and go be a missionary. And that is not biblical truth. And what you're speaking is biblical truth all day long at Metron Manager that people need to check out online, MetronManager.com.

They're gonna engage with you no matter where they are in the country. Right. That's right. Yeah. Jonathan Nowlen. Thanks for being on iWork4Him today. Thanks for sharing about Metron Manager. And I can't wait for us to be on location with you in Northwest Arkansas sometime later this year. But thanks for being on today, Jonathan.

Jonathan Nowlen: My privilege. Thanks guys.

Jim: You've been listening to the iWork4Him program with your host, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. We're Christ followers. Our workplace is our mission field, and ultimately: iWork4Him.

Outro: Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, the cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom. Wherever it is that you work, live, volunteer and invest: that is your mission field.

To learn more about integrating your faith into your work and retirement, check out our books: iWork4Him, sheWorks4Him and iRetire4Him by going to, iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the, iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg, please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him Nation, or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media @iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests. If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform.

Your review we'll launch more workplace missionaries across. That's @iWork4Him and online at iWork4Him.com. I work the number 4 Him. Dot com.

5/6/22 - Resilience Through Faith: Valerie Bell, Awana

Welcome to the, iWork4Him podcast. I'm Michael miracle producer of the, I work4Him radio program, the voice of the faith and work movement. Our mission is to transform the workplace of every Christian and do a mission field. What does that look like in your workplace? Let's find out right now.

Jim: This episode of iWork4Him was previously recorded for the Christian leadership alliance's outcomes conference podcast, where leaders come to invest the best of what they know into other leaders.

Martha: Remember, if you have influence over just one person, you are a leader. Together let's listen to this podcast and learn more about leading God's way. Enjoy!

Jim: Martha and I are excited to host the outcomes conference podcast. Every podcast is dedicated to you, our outcomes conference podcast listener. We have an incredible conversation today coming up with Valerie Bell with a wanna, yes, that Awana. Have you memorized your versus the. Alanna.org. We'll be focusing on leadership thriving, and of course they're related outcomes.

Valerie Bell, welcome to the outcomes conference podcast. Now, before we start talking about your leadership role as CEO of Awana and a perspective of what God is doing through you to lead a thriving environment at Awana, tell us how you personally keep your faith strong and your leadership Christ centered each day.

Valerie Bell: Oh, I love that question because I have visuals that I'm going to put up here. This is how I started journaling, because I didn't want to actually have to write a lot of words. This is a one-year Bible. And so I would go through that and I think, I don't know if you can see, but I would put the year that I was hitting that page and the underlying themes and put prayer requests.

So I did that for about five years when I was a young woman and that Bible pretty much fell apart. And so I had to develop another system. So now I use this Celtic daily prayer compiled by Richard Foster. And I take all my notes from that, the scripture that he's teaching and put them in this study Bible, which is really cool.

If you don't have one of these. Let me see, what is it? It's the NIV, the journal of the word Bible. And N I V so I'm not sure even puts that out, but so then look at this, you can go back and in these margins where you've written this. You have this prayer request and it was five years ago and you were so over it, and God has so met you.

It's like, it's a history of God's story in your life. So that's what I use. If I have something that's just fabulous for that day, I send it out in the morning to my leadership team and say, this is what I had in my scripture reading today. So yeah. So that's what I use in. That helps me tremendously.

It helps me remember God's faithfulness and it helps me to trust him for what I need from him now and in the future.

Martha: And having those memory stones, those markers that you can run across that had random times and see, and remember, that's such a great visual there and a reminder for us. So that's great.

And you know, it's pretty obvious. You're meant for your job, right? She's got her, we'll get into that a little bit, but that was just, that was great. You had visuals and you're really engaged.

Valerie Bell: Now my sister is a real journaler, you know, she's got piles like this of real journals, but truthfully, I don't have time to read all of those. Even if I wrote them, you know, this is a short hand journal technique and it works for me. It might work for some other people too.

Martha: Well, that's just, it. I think a lot of times we don't journal because. We think it's too overwhelming. So you've given us a really good place to start. So let's talk about, you know, with the outcomes conference theme for this year is thriving. What does thriving mean to you personally?

Valerie Bell: I think thriving to me means that sense of being in sync with God. That, you know, that sense that you are walking right in the places that he has prepared for you and that you are doing the work he's asking you to do. To me I know that's just a sense, maybe it's not so measurable, but some of the things that we often measure, it's riding by our numbers, our finances you know, I'm old enough that I've been in places where those things have been.

And I wouldn't say that it was a thriving culture. It could have been a culture that was really toxic even. And so to me, both personally, and for the organization, are we doing the work that God has asked us to do? Forget the numbers, forget the other things that could discourage you, because if you're in that God group, And you're moving forward. You are thriving. That's my perspective.

Jim: Wow. I like that perspective. And I love when you say, forget the numbers.

Martha: Well, you know, that really even ties back to just what we said about journaling, because it's like, okay, you could compare what you're doing, which is how you are thriving with your relationship, with the Lord, to what your sister's doing in the stack of.

And they're both allowing you to thrive in your own ways. So there's so many ways we can apply that in our life.

Jim: As we learned in marriage mentoring, it's not wrong, just different. That's a great love and respect a perspective. All right. So tell us about how Awana found online Awana.Org. If you don't have Awana at your church, you should. Awana.org. Tell us how Awana enables those. You serve both as employees and volunteers and clients, how you help all of them to thrive.

Valerie Bell: So we are people of the word. We treasure God's word and we believe that when we teach it to children, we learn it ourselves. At Awana, we are memorizing Philippians 2 together.

It's killing me, my memories, what it used to be, but we believe that that word of God dwells in us richly and informed. So I had a funny conversation the other day with a woman that was sitting in a restaurant by herself at the bar where there were single people sit. I joined her, we started talking because I was by myself too.

And here she was the head, the VP of development from Michigan state university. Wow. You know, I've got someone I can really get some information from here. You know, we start talking and then she said what do you do? What do you do? And I told her about Awana and that we are in. Listen to this 129 countries with 5 million children every week, 55,000 churches.

It blows your mind. It always. And she said this to me. She said, you know, I grew up Lutheran and I memorized a lot of scripture and I don't believe any of that anymore. But every once in a while, a Bible verse will come and inform me. And I thought, and you're sitting next to the CEO of a one at lunch.

Who's going to tell you that Bible verse means more than just a thing that happened in your chest. You're going to go and have an interview with a former alumnus. Who's going to tell you how Christ has changed his or her life. You're going to sit on the planet. God is on to you. I didn't say that to her, but the, the the reason scripture is so, so very important and that kind of deep engagement people say, oh, you just make those kids memorize that.

And they don't know what it is. Maybe, but as they grow that's scripture, doesn't leave them. It dwells in us richly and it informs our adult lives. So we say that Awana is not about child discipleship. It's about lifelong discipleship. And the reason we say that, and we have just done studies that can prove that by the way, Is that, you know, this relationship with scripture.

So that's a part of why I think Awana is a thriving ministry. And then, you know, we were, we are in a deep self-examination mode because we've been around 70 years and you know, how the, the cultures that we prepare children for are not there anymore. Those cultures. We need to prepare them for the best we can for 2050, when there'll be adults and project, what the culture is, what they're going to need.

So we're doing this deep work right now, but We realized, and we learned that one of the other important aspects of discipleship besides this engagement with the Bible is the presence of a loving, caring adult in your life. Right. That mitigates. Anything that a child goes through. That's UN studies, that's Harvard studies.

That's not Awana studies. That's out there. And as we look at our child ministry and other child ministries, you know, we've got these big warehouses that are beautiful, that are full of kids. Maybe nobody really knows who this child is. We're counting the numbers. How many kids have we got after they leave?

Nobody knows where they go. Okay. But no wonder we've got a 50% drop off. When kids hit high school. So this loving, caring adult, we're saying, you know, a little less Disney world, a little more Mr. Rogers, these days, because these kids need to have that person in their life.

Jim: What a great way to end this segment of the outcomes conference podcast.

As we've talked with Valerie Bell from Awana, as you already heard, if you don't have Awana at your church, you should awana.org. We'll be right back with more on the outcomes conference pod. No, we're not trying to sell Awana, but it sounds awesome. Doesn't it? Hang on.

Martha: You know, the kind of person that always tells you about the latest trends or the special deals around town we'll lean in because here's a message from that kind of person.

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Go ahead, check out awakenpodcastnetwork.com and then be that kind of person and tell a friend.

Jim: Hey, welcome back to the outcomes conference podcast today. We're talking with Valerie Bell from Awana. Yes, that Awana.org. She's talking about. I mean, I loved your last comment. We need a whole lot less Mickey mouse and a whole lot more... mr. Rogers. Is that what you said was something like that?

Valerie Bell: Yeah, a little less Disney in a whole lot more. Mr. Rogers.

Jim: Okay. But it's not fair to compare all of Disney to Mr. Rogers, but Mickey mouse to Mr. Because Mr. Rogers didn't have never, never land. And you know, that was be more, no less. Okay. Okay. I remember that.

One of the things that you said, Valerie is so true because we instill scripture in the kids and when, when they're old, it comes back. And for me, it's the songs I don't memorize scripture easily, but every piece of scripture that I learned as a child that was in a song, I know the song. And it comes and when I'm reading my Bible, I'm like, I learned that song.

I learned that song. I learned that song. That was a song too. I mean, I, I remember it.

Martha: And how many adults do we re finally remember that taught u?, you know, Sunday school teacher and Awana teacher, somebody on Wednesday night that, you know, I can remember my third grade leader because they invested in me. So I was just resonating with the things that I never thought about the theology.

Why things were done as a kid, you know, but as an adult sitting here and you're being so intentional at Awana, and I love that. So let's talk about the intentionality in your own life. This last year, it's been tough and we've had to focus on things or find things to help us personally, with our leadership. What is something that has, that you've really done to work on your leadership and help you focus on being the leader, God called you to?

Valerie Bell: You know, I we were in the middle of a transition time. We've been around 70 years and, you know, w this was natural and normal that we would need to do some transitioning.

And so I was, you know, so busy working on the nuts and bolts of turning the queen Mary around. And then you know, we had all these ideas and then COVID. And I'll tell you what COVID did. COVID accelerated all of those necessary plans. And so now, instead of just talking, you see what happened, we had this huge international growth and our sales model can no longer sustain the growth that's happening internationally.

So suddenly, you know, we had to be more than curriculum sellers. We had to be donor centered. And and I don't like to ask for money, you know, so personally for me, you know, we went to the airwaves, we went to Facebook live and we just said, here's what's happening. And I had to really believe deep in my core that this was worth asking.

This was worth begging. This was worth pleading over. And that's a very humbling experience if you've never had to do that before or to have to listen to churches who are not doing very well in their discipleship program, complain about what you are doing at Awana. You know, that's very humbling to have to be in this mix because it affected us the negativity that we talk about in the culture.

Hm, let's be honest. It's in the church. And we've all been living with people who think their opinion was written in scripture. That's a Bible memory verse in their mind. And so, you know, I think this was a year where I needed to learn humility and, and, and along with that hope and trust in God. So listen to this. 43% of our churches did not come back last fall to order product.

Jim: Wow.

Valerie Bell: That will wipe a ministry out. And do you know, we're looking at gazillion millions of dollars that we were behind. And we prayed, we went to our people, we went to Facebook live. Please don't criticize me for this because I know it's controversial.

We got PPP loans and do you know, God met us. We hit our first million dollar gift and yeah, we didn't even know to ask. It was somebody that was probably in a one, a graduate from 30, 40 years ago.

We didn't plan that we didn't program that that's God and my faith in my trust, in my hope in God is been stepped up this year. Even though it's been really, really tough. I, I have a different relationship with God than I did before all of this started.

Jim: Do you think those 43% of churches will come back?

Valerie Bell: We're starting to see the trends that they are coming back. I don't think they'll all come back, but I think we are going to be able to message resilience and kind of form a tribe of other churches that go.

We want to make sure our kids are discipled. We want to make sure that we have Put in them, what the 2050 church will need a terms of leaders and kids who have grown up, who can engage the culture.

Martha: Can we just talk for real quick? You - resilience is a word that you've written about, right? You just said the word resilience. And, you know, a couple of years ago, you, co-authored a book called resilient child discipleship and the fearless future of the church. Tell us about that and give us a little bit of insight into how we can be sure that our children are ready to be gospel leaders in the future ahead that 2050, that you're, you're looking at ahead.

Valerie Bell: So we wrote this before COVID and who knew we'd all have to be living this, you know, but it's I'm fascinated with resilient discipleship. So resilience is a quality that allows a person to bend and flex, but not break under the weight of culture. And what we usually do when we see things are getting tough out there is we protect our children and we should protect our children.

But protection doesn't give them the the power that they need to be able to bend and flex under culture. That's like protection, build a moat around your church, build a moat around your house, you know, we'll lose it. That's all we do. So resilience says let's prepare. Let's look ahead now, you know, COVID happened to us.

There's no way we could have prepared for that. Right. Who would have dreamed in a million years that COVID could hit almost every area of my life, but we can project a little bit about the deepening secular culture and it's, it's antagonism towards Christianity and figure out one, how do we relate to that culture?

How do we develop strong Christians who we can speak into. My goal is not just to have a wanna, still be here in 2050. I want that person sitting in the white house to be in a want a kid and all hope. She's fabulous. I love that. Yeah. So, so the resilient discipleship is another way of saying leadership.

And so we deeply build into these kids' lives and we call them the three BS belong. You know, you come to church, there's that loving, caring adult there. And they give you a front row seat to what faith looks like, even in a crisis. And then believe based on scripture that we believe God is who he says he is.

And that he, that Christ is the Messiah. Belong belief and become. Here I have my primary allegiance. Here's my identity. This is where I work out being a Christian in my daily life. So those three Bs, those are the legs of the stool of discipleship, resilient discipleship. And you know, we we've been working with Barna to do an assessment tool.

This is so cool. Churches think they're discipling in a lot of them. And they're doing good things, you know, but they're not really hitting the nails on the head. So with this assessment tool, they'll be able to take the assessment and say, oh, we're not hitting the nail on the head here, or we're doing.

And our dream is to certify resilient churches. So, you know, when you take your child there, that child is going to be noticed. They're going to be in deeply ingrained the God's word. They're going to be shown how to walk it. They're going to be made to be resilient christian leader disciples.

Jim: Yeah. Wow - what a great word. I love that. As we talk with Valerie Bell today, the CEO of Awana online awana.org. I got to get a comment about. The whole, really what you're talking about is creating a manufacturing mentality in our churches. We need to produce phenomenally vibrant and resilient believers. We've got more of our conversation coming up with Valerie Bell, hang on.

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Hey, welcome back to the outcomes conference podcast today, having a great conversation with Valerie Bell from Awana CEO of Awana. She said she as in Awana class is just 10 years ago, got on the board of directors, and now she's the CEO. That means you too could become the CEO of Awana. Just start memorizing your verses. Martha where you in Awana as a kid?

Martha: No, our church had a different program.

Jim: Cause I know I didn't get to, and yet we've seen our kids got to go through Awana and what an amazing impact .

Valerie, I got a, I got a question for you. All right. As the CEO, you're constantly studying and reading and learning things. And a lot of times as leaders, we read things where like everybody in my organization needs to hear this. What is it recently that you've read or studied or learned that you wanted to pass on to everyone in your organization?

Valerie Bell: Oh, glad you asked that. Cause I love this. So my leadership team, we're always passing things back and forth to each other songs, scripture books, but I want to share with you a couple of the books that have really informed us this year. This is Oz Guinness. It's called fool's talk. And let me just read one of the quotes here, here.

The world has grown far more dismissive of our faith in the world of today. We, again and again, have to face the fact that the world that earlier generations knew has gone and gone for it. So, what I'm interested in, this is how do we talk to this culture? So we can be heard we're teaching spine and heart that you engage.

If somebody says something on your Facebook page, that's radical and crazy that you say to them, I see how you could feel like that you make this bridge statement first, and then you tell the truth. And I found that it's much easier for them to hear the truth. If we built the bridge first I'm learning how to do this.

I wish every Christian who was active in social media would do the same thing. We're teaching your kids this right now. And then this is really good as Christians in the age of outrage. And one of the things that he says is let me make sure I have the right one. And who wrote that? This is ed Stetser.

He's a tremendous missiologist. He's the head of the Billy Graham association a week. But basically he says, here, it's a great study of what's happening in our culture that we used to. Can you see this? This is our Awana gain symbol. We used to be like this. The pagans were up here. The proud pagans were up here.

And then people who were born in the United States, who thought they were Christian and people who go to church every once in a while, and an Orthodox evangelical Christianity shared the same views. He says, this is all shifting. And now the views are like this. And that's why people are saying that Christians are in the minority now and will be increasingly.

So he, but he does all the facts and the stats and all of that, you know, it's not just a impression, so he's really backed up. So those would be two of the ones that we pass around. We've read together that are informing us.

Martha: That's so good. And you know, that is something us as the listeners, hearing what you're sharing, you know, something we can take and go and look up ourselves, but is there something, you know, Christian leadership Alliance is all about taking what you as a leader, the very best of what, you know, and sharing it with other leaders.

So what is the one thing right now that you'd like to invest in the listeners and share with them before we end the podcast?

Valerie Bell: First of all, don't let anybody tell you you're not a leader because your Myers Briggs isn't E S T J the natural leader. Right? I don't know what you guys are. Myers Briggs. I'm I N F P that's about as far from the natural leader, as you can get. If God asks you to do something, there's a reason he asked you and for me and I would encourage everybody to think like that maximize what your gift is.

That's the gift that others will be able to fill in the gaps for. So I'm I NFP it's the healer it's my gifts would be in this feels a little uncomfortable to talk about this, but I have a word gift. I'm an, envisioner a little bit of prophetic edge on some of the things that I share. But, you know, don't ask me to develop systems.

John asked me to be able to make all the charts work and a little bit, but you know, what I found that is I was true and faithful to that gift and maximized it, you know, I put the Energizer bunny behind it. So it wasn't just thoughts. It was, this is what we're going to do. Other gifts came. Other people came, who were so much more gifted than I was in those areas.

And they're filling in the blanks that I couldn't fill in myself. So that's what I would say to leaders is optimize your gifts. It's there for this season for a reason. And as you optimize that, don't apologize. You know, let other people come and take the lead in the areas that you need help.

Jim: And great leaders do that. They're not intimidated by surrounding themselves with the best of the best in all of the other disciplines in an organization. That's what great leaders do they become leaders worth following? Thank you so much. Valerie Bell, CEO of Awana. Thanks for joining us today on the outcomes conference podcast.

Valerie Bell: Thank you.

Jim: And to your outcomes conference podcast listener. Thank you for joining us today. We pray this podcast is inspired you and I have no doubt that it has, and we hope that it inspires you to higher thinking and deeper thinking for thriving in the culture that you oversee each and every day in your organization.

Martha: Be sure to visit Christian leadership alliance.org, where you can stay up to date by subscribing to the outcomes online newsletter and the CLA higher thinking blog.

Jim: And if you're not already a member of the Christian leadership Alliance, I have no idea what you're waiting for. Join the Alliance today. Join an organization of phenomenal Christian nonprofits, all seeking to bring excellence. Into the world, Christian leadership alliance.org.

Martha: Remember the wisdom in this podcast came to you on its way to someone else. So if you loved it, say so and share it with a friend.

Jim: I'm Jim

Martha: I'm. Martha.

Jim: We'll see you again for the next episode of the outcomes conference podcast.

Did you know that God has a calling on your life? It's true. He's called you to bring Jesus to the world. For some that may look like a pulpit or a foreign mission field, but for most of us, it looks like a construction site, a cubicle, a hospital, or a classroom, wherever it is that you work with volunteer and best that is your mission field.

To learn more about integrating your faith into your work in retirement. Check out our books. iWork4Him. sheWorks4Him and iretire4Him, iWork4Him.com/bookstore.

Thank you for listening to the, iWork4Him podcast with your hosts, Jim and Martha Brangenberg. Please visit iWork4Him.com to learn more about connecting your faith and work, to join the iWork4Him nation or subscribe to our weekly blog. You can also follow us on social media at iWork4Him to stay up to date and meet our guests.

If today's message spoke to you, please subscribe, rate, and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. Your review we'll launch more workplace missionaries across. That's at iWork4Him and online iWork4Him.com. I work the number 4 him. Dot com.